Guild Wars 2

Tools has streamlined so I take that, and I like tools for the Adrenal (free passive vigor)+ and the free stunbreak with reactive lenses :P generally with e gun and heal turret +overcharged i can clear any soft cc’s rly quickly anyway

I take fire arms for IP, iIdont feel the need for Explosives on Cele personally. I use nades and the velocity is find by default anyway for me. Mortar is awesome, tho with 4 kits i am finding it very challenging to play and utilize every skill i can properly with the new F5 and my new keybinds. So many buttons x.x

I am right now testing

Hoelbrak Runes, Cele, rifle with Battle and Intel

Firearms 2,2,3
Tools 2, 1, 2
Alcchemy 2, 3, 1 because it seems the vigor doesn’t stack with Adrenal and Prot is 2 gud

Its pretty godly so far and I can hit 20-23 might stacks easy

This is for pvp btw

EDIT: Forgot to add with tool kit, nades, egun and mortar kit

Anyone else already found a crazy good build? I know I have :^)

Spirited Was Eceni.3869:

I’m fully convinced there are lucky accounts where that account has a better chance to get desirable items. If luck was equal across all accounts then drops would even out but instead we hear all the time about people getting multiple drops of precursors.

The ‘multiple drop’ phenomenon was clearly highlighted during the last closed beta testing for HoT where people farmed in SW for hours for an access key and got nothing but others got lots in a relatively short time.

I’m in the ‘never lucky’ group so have had to earn anything I have by grinding but that’s fine, no one ever said life is fair. I’m currently saving everything I get on the off chance it becomes part of the crafted precursor recipe.

I have been ridiculed for stating this view before and expect to be again but kitten it, I believe what I see.

I’m in the club too.

However I believe I don’t get good drops or a precursor because I am a sinner. It is merely how many poor souls I have decked and killed in Spvp+WvW that is probably coming back to haunt me.

Maybe I should PvE more and help my comrades out rather than opting to put a flag (Or in this case a super adventure nuke) through their pleading defeated form.

Conski Deshan.2057:

LameFox.6349:

Conski Deshan.2057:

I think this is where the difference between pro-exclusivity and anti-exclusivity comes in.
I treat the game as a competition (which I feel is in line with MMO/gaming in general), I don’t want to equal to everyone I want to beat them, have more , do more, be more.

I’ll also be the one to say it, if everyone looks awesome , no one looks awesome.
I also worry about your definition of rarity, while you don’t say it I believe you’re defining it as “they have to put some work in and then they get it” not "only a very small % of the player base gets the item (I,E actual rarity/scarcity)

That doesn’t even make sense in this game. Who are you competing against? You can’t take loot from someone else, you can’t stop them from getting an achievement by getting there first. Getting an item by happening to be around during the time it was available certainly isn’t competitive. Do you just farm a lot and buy things off the TP so you can feel like you beat someone to it?

What no? why do you assume it’s preventing the other person completing the task
It’s doing difficult achievements that others couldn’t I.E their skills or abilities were no good enough, not physically preventing them except in the case of direct races , getting rare/prestige items like liandri, luminescent etc.
I was just saying that exclusives are a part of that in getting an item another person couldn’t , in Guildwars currently since there’s so few high end pieces of content it’s usually about volume rather than actual quality though. Like getting more AP for some people, more skins, more titles etc.

While I do have to farm occasionally I despise farming, I’d much rather players were expected to complete new content constantly if they wanted to keep unlocking new things /getting nice items with an ever increasing difficulty.

Lol wot.

How can you be competitive when you don’t play the one competitive part of the game? PvP.

None of this thread makes any sense. You guys say you want exclusive items, Okay. You say you want it because you want to ‘beat’ others… in a game mode where you don’t actually compete?

Luminiscient Armor isn’t competitive, it is a grind. Liadri isn’t even competitive, though fair enough to be note worthy spamming it till you got lucky in a fight or finding a gimmick build like the rifle war/hundo build with guides on youtube is enough.

Skins don’t mean anything but Luck, wealth and grind in this game. The only Skins that would of denoted skill would of been the Glorious Hero armour if not for the test-ladder method of aquisition. No skin makes anyone better at anything BUT perhaps styling and eyes for fashion.

Though we are not so different you and I. I am also very competitive I have found. So I literally try to beat others and compete in PvP, the only game mode that allows it.

Heck lets say PvP isn’t your cup of tea because you don’t like fighting others (Okay Mr ‘Competitive’…) you can also measure your skill vs others by doing PvE content with them such as high level fractals. You can actually see them in action and decide. It is people like you that make me want to run Level 2 Starter gear just to roflstomp them in game.

TDLR: Time limited exclusives which come back are fine, exclusivity through difficulty (or time effort investment) is fine, absolute exclusivity without return for being nothing but in the right place at the right time no ty. Competition and comparison should be in how you play and your knowledge/skill as a player, not your fashion. Unless it is a fashion contest.

Wot is this doing on the pvp forums, pls move it

So…. the preview today showed all the ‘placeholder’ skins for the kits… are these final or?…

Are all of the kits besides med kit going to drop with a new skin tomorrow?

choovanski.5462:

Crimson King.6435:

What if it was a healing weapon…

then i wont be buying HoT

Agreed, I want to hurt things.

Astralporing.1957:

I guess sometimes Americans forget where the English language really comes from.

Denmark?

Beldin.5498:

PistolWhip.2697:

Lambent.6375:

Didn’t they remove the krytan armor from the gemstore?

Now that’s even less non trenchcoat items.

Krytan was a trench coat?…

Nope .. Krytan is the vest that my ranger wears on the picture i posted above.

http://i.imgur.com/zmx1D.png

Looks like a trench coat to me.

OH WAIT, Male and female version is different. So maybe you should specify next time? Not everyone plays female characters.

I for one have none. So maybe try to be clearer?

Female Krytan Top is indeed not a trench coat, where as the male version is.

Thank me later.

Nilix.2170:

PistolWhip.2697:

Let us not also forget, the Devs themselves have said Engineer was the hardest and has always been the hardest to work with in terms of balance and changes. I don’t know why, but if I took a guess I’d say it is due to their niche and weird mechanics compared to other skill bars.

I find it to be the exact opposite. They aren’t just balancing usefulness, but identity. As Engineers, we are stepping on the identity lines of every profession at the same time. Every other profession is more like a “niche” compared to the Engineer in terms of design. Even now, if you ask people “What is the _ profession supposed to do?”, Engineer is the hardest to answer. If you asked me that, I’d tell you “anything”. The ‘identity’ of a profession is relative to its perceived role. But the best thing about Engineer, or at least how I play with them, is how they just fill in blanks. We’re the RAMIREZ of GW2 Professions. Access to just about every condition, boon, and field type in the game but we’re not allowed to shine brightest in anything outside of the sheer number of blast finishers it can create for them. A jack of all trades profession in a game where EVERY profession is supposed to be able to fulfill multiple roles. However, while the other professions have much clearer roles that they can follow and do well in, in some other roles they don’t shine as much. But an Engineer can compensate for an entire additional role just by adding a single kit into their skill bar.

And that’s where the delicate line of balance comes in. You don’t want an Engineer to outshine a class in its most prominent role. Many people play Thief to do massive damage in subtlety. But if Engineers somehow were the class doing this more effectively, those players will just switch to Engineer instead and the Thief is stripped of its identity as the covert assassin profession.
At the same time, you also don’t want the Engineer to be subpar in that role either. Because if you did, it’s as if it’s not meant to be effective in that role at all and Engineers would focus more towards other roles. and the “Jack of All Trades” moniker wouldn’t mean anything.

I think you’re right actually. That makes much more sense than my theory.

In fact I like how well thought out your post is so I am going to +1 it.

The educating never ends.

Lambent.6375:

Didn’t they remove the krytan armor from the gemstore?

Now that’s even less non trenchcoat items.

Krytan was a trench coat?…

sunset.3056:

PistolWhip.2697:

sunset.3056:

I am so happy to hear the good news!

Honestly your character looks anything but happy.

Mine is skeptical and wants to at least wait till patch.

What will come of it? He doesn’t know.

It’s just her face she does when she poses for the camera, I am hopeful my legendary auras will stay when I pop nade kit. :/

LOL Hilarious

Let us not also forget, the Devs themselves have said Engineer was the hardest and has always been the hardest to work with in terms of balance and changes. I don’t know why, but if I took a guess I’d say it is due to their niche and weird mechanics compared to other skill bars.

This means they not only skimped out on the initial presentation, but once more complete felt the need to make up for it in this 2nd one. I believe they more than rose to that challenge.

Toxsa.2701:

PistolWhip.2697:

T raw.4658:

Engi is face roll.

As is D/P Carry thief, what is your point?

I played all classes, and honestly I’d have to tell you Engi is 10 times more faceroll than thief in general. A good thief is really strong but it’s much easier to suck at playing thief than suck at playing engi.

I have played all classes but ranger and I disagree. In fact, my firs ever class was Thief, so I have always found it easy from the get go so the bias is there. The hardest class I found to wrap my head around was a tie between Engineer and Mesmer.

Different strokes for different folks methinks.

T raw.4658:

So I’m interested as to what people believe makes the PS thief so face roll?

Please do tell

PS is very forgiving. The passive condi cleanse means you have to play less well to stop yourself getting overwhelmed by the other meta trifecta+the passivity of panic strike as a proc could be compared to how carry Incendiary Powder is atm for Engineer. A friend who is new to pvp went into thief to learn it, picked it up after 5-6 Duels. Plus, let us not forget the RNG BS that is Impro.

Now Crit Strikes, that is a build with a higher skill floor on thief, and the trade off is more damage/higher killing potential.

Quadox.7834:

Toxsa.2701:

PistolWhip.2697:

T raw.4658:

Engi is face roll.

As is D/P Carry thief, what is your point?

I played all classes, and honestly I’d have to tell you Engi is 10 times more faceroll than thief in general. A good thief is really strong but it’s much easier to suck at playing thief than suck at playing engi.

Because engi has a lower Skill floor. In terms of high level competitiveness, engi is one of the hardest with mesmer also up there.

Seems logical, +1

T raw.4658:

PistolWhip.2697:

Sagat.3285:

PistolWhip.2697:

T raw.4658:

Engi is face roll.

As is D/P Carry thief, what is your point?

You mean meta Panic Strike thief? You’re comparing a whole prof to a spec that uses RNG and procs and thief will be call faceroll/cheese/OP no matter what.

Yes PS of course. It is a very user friendly easy spec in terms of mechanics and requires low play time for most.

That said, you can’t really call a whole class face roll. There are face roll builds on any class.

Celestial Rifle isn’t all Engineer is, and I doubt anyone would say other specs beside this one pose the most issues atm.

After the changes? I don’t know, but neither do any of you. Not even the Devs do (quite evidently). We’ll just have to wait and see.

If an engi loses to any thief they need to uninstall

That has nothing to do with how face roll PS spec is, or how Op the class is on the conquest game mode due to their mechanics alone.

By the same token, if a Thief loses to a mesmer they should uninstall.

I don’t see anything but your salty tears you can’t outplay Engineers despite them having an advantage. There is always room to outplay bruh.

Sagat.3285:

PistolWhip.2697:

T raw.4658:

Engi is face roll.

As is D/P Carry thief, what is your point?

You mean meta Panic Strike thief? You’re comparing a whole prof to a spec that uses RNG and procs and thief will be call faceroll/cheese/OP no matter what.

Yes PS of course. It is a very user friendly easy spec in terms of mechanics and requires low play time for most.

That said, you can’t really call a whole class face roll. There are face roll builds on any class.

Celestial Rifle isn’t all Engineer is, and I doubt anyone would say other specs beside this one pose the most issues atm.

After the changes? I don’t know, but neither do any of you. Not even the Devs do (quite evidently). We’ll just have to wait and see.

T raw.4658:

Engi is face roll.

As is D/P Carry thief, what is your point?

Sagat.3285:

PistolWhip.2697:

Cynz.9437:

PistolWhip.2697:

Cynz.9437:

Favoritism at its finest.

Tfw the picture calling out another class is posted by someone who mains the most OP class for the conquest game mode.

it took anet 3 years to change LR~
it took them what, 2 days to change speedy kits~

3 years for hobosacks~

I swear the golden child was ‘Warrior’? The trend for who is considered the golden child changes far too fast for me. I guess it must be all those thief shadowsteps abusing various spots on the map and flying above my head.

Wait a minute…how can you compare hobosacks to Speedy Kits?? It’s graphic debate that doesn’t affect gameplay results in anyway, I’m still not sure how the hobosacks thread got so big and you can’t compare to thief and war either. So how can you?

It was meant to be tongue in cheek. Good God, this subforum is the most tense and on edge thing I have ever seen. The tears are ready to flow at the drop of a feather, or a gadget it seems in this context.

Don’t you know, Fashion Wars>Ugly Wars

Cynz.9437:

PistolWhip.2697:

Cynz.9437:

Favoritism at its finest.

Tfw the picture calling out another class is posted by someone who mains the most OP class for the conquest game mode.

it took anet 3 years to change LR~
it took them what, 2 days to change speedy kits~

3 years for hobosacks~

I swear the golden child was ‘Warrior’? The trend for who is considered the golden child changes far too fast for me. I guess it must be all those thief shadowsteps abusing various spots on the map and flying above my head.

Cynz.9437:

Favoritism at its finest.

Tfw the picture calling out another class is posted by someone who mains the most OP class for the conquest game mode.

kitten , the salt is real. The last time I saw so much QQ behaviour was during the initial D/D Ele nerf when they were God tier in the first months of GW2.

Manuhell.2759:

skowcia.8257:

Thats the point. The amount of work put in engi compared to ranger, war, necro or even guard. We dont need a genius here to see AN favors engi. Even the stream alone took 45min jsut for engi..

Because of the amount of work? Well, it isn’t like they have spent much time on it before.
You’re talking about a class that had a whole category of skills – kits – fundamentally recycled from enviromental weapons. And some elixirs that just chose effects from other classes’ skills at random. I wonder if giving it few base weapons is also due to time constraints.
Not exactly surprising, anyway, since it was the last profession they presented. The class was likely made in a hurry.
Since now they’ve got more time available, they’re probably spending some more time on it.

This guy is completely correct, and this is the most logical reasoning I have seen. +1 for you sir.

This has to be the top thread for a while.

10/10

MLG E-sportz thread status right hur.

T raw.4658:

PistolWhip.2697:

T raw.4658:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

This is a little off topic but:

As a community we need to stop calling things “Brain dead.” It’s a term used so much that it’s beginning to cheapen the posts it’s used in.

I almost went “knee jerk response” and ignored the whole post, even though I also play a thief and could benefit from supporting this.

EDIT: Went back and read the topic.

>Dont stand in fields
>Dont SR when an engie is near

and prob solved.

Says the Charr Warrior lol.

The lock on trait is a bad idea and would be the equivalent of thieves being able to lock you out of adrenaline gains for 18 of 20 seconds.

Wrong. This trait would be the equivalent of an engineer being able to lock out a warrior from gaining adrenaline for 18 or 20 seconds, of which since it contests with speedy kits the warrior could just run and reset from using GS or Sword leap and swiftness of which it has abundance of and return to fight the Engi.

Your example is wrong because a warrior couldn’t reset the fight as a thief could catch it especially since mobility skills won’t be effected by swiftness and thief mobility is unhindered due to it all being ports. Where as an engineer lacks the mobility after giving up speedy kits to catch said warrior, or thief. Which if revealed can run and reset or head to another point.

That said, I will still be taking speedy/streamlined, since the reinstallment of perma swiftness purely because I don’t and have never needed to reveal thieves to kill them or at least push them off point.

We’re on the PvP Forum mate. When’s the last time you saw a GS warrior?

Go back to the engi forums and be happy

Many times mate. In fact, Hammer/GS is queued by a lot of people.

Anas Tarcis for example was using a GS in his stream 2-3 days ago.

Plus Sword is a staple with its 2 anyway.

Just sayin’.

Oh, and the point of my post was to show how silly your comparison was and replace it with a better one. Cheers. o/

Tommyknocker.6089:

PistolWhip.2697:

Tommyknocker.6089:

If you watch the live stream it is self evident the devs working on the engy are quite excited over the changes. What I didn’t know was just how coddled their community was.

2 hours in or not, could you at least feign interest in the necro changes Joshua? And If not could we get another necro designer (or at very least player) to sit in the other seat.

I understand the frustration, but Joshua Davis mains Engineer, it only makes sense would be giddy over the changes.

Oh I completely understand, but I would just like to see equal representation is all. When devs discuss and banter the ideas back and forth it can lead to more incite into what was changed and why. Although Robert Gee did a great job describing the changes having a necro player along for the ride would have not only given Joshua a break, but we might have had someone from our side of the coin voicing an opinion.

Once again, I completely understand, I just wanted to play devils advocate to say that Josh doesn’t as far as I know have anything against any other class in particular.

I think your suggestion would of applied and been good for ALL classes to be honest.

Yamsandjams.3267:

PistolWhip.2697:

I think a lot of it stems from jealousy. Engineer does get a lot of love, but I think in part that is because like Mesmer it is Anet’s own archetype. They are excited about it. Necromancers are an archetype long used throughout MMO’s and in FANTASY mmo’s you don’t tend to see Mesmer or Engineers.

At least, that is what I put it down to.

I can see why it bothers necro and mesmer players because it’s an area they’ve traditionally been highly lacking in. So a lot of times a person can just turn and run the other way with their perma swiftness and they can’t catch them.

Of course, that perma swiftness has been very critical to engineer’s competitiveness since day one. Without it, engineer would suffer to the extreme in a lot of encounters. The tend to have less convenient stun breakers, next to no stability, poor condition clearing, and next to no micro-mobility outside of rocket boots.

As someone who’s roamed a lot, I can tell you that a lot of escapes I’ve made on engineer have involved huffing it on my own two feet as fast as I could. No blinks to get out of jail.

I agree entirely, and trust your judgement. It is just, as much as I get the frustration and think some backlash is normal, to the extent of bashing a whole class over swiftness is petty.

It just makes me want to support their community less in their push for balance changes to their class, and I am sure I am not the only one.

Kagamiku.9731:

Because the amount of posters on GW forums is tiny compared to the amount of posters on GW 2 reddit. 50 unique posts here would be 500 unique posts there, or more. Percentages are relative to the number of people participating.

This means you have to take a whole line if you want the swiftness. Not one trait, a whole line. This has nothing with how good Tools is, because Tools is kitten good.

You have to take the whole line if you want any trait in tools. If you put some thought into it, you would see that what you’re saying is flawed. You’re taking a traitline because of a combination of traits. You think to yourself “hmm, which combination of traits will best perform with what I’m trying to accomplish.” Streamlines kits makes tools a stronger contender. No one will pick the traitline exclusively for it, however. No matter how you dice it, you’re sacrificing one trait for it (lockdown or takedown strike) because you can still choose 2 other traits from adept and GM, as well as the three minor traits that are default to that traitline.

Honestly, mate. We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

I hope whatever balance changes come, they can cater to the interest of as many people possible, including you and me.

I think a lot of it stems from jealousy. Engineer does get a lot of love, but I think in part that is because like Mesmer it is Anet’s own archetype. They are excited about it. Necromancers are an archetype long used throughout MMO’s and in FANTASY mmo’s you don’t tend to see Mesmer or Engineers.

At least, that is what I put it down to.

I don’t understand how you can quantify ‘most’ posters for one, two, I don’t see why a share of posters (which counting how many people have posted more than once could be anywhere below or above 50) repeatedly posting their views on a thread has some how more credence than people expressing themselves on the subreddit but upvoting the view they agree with. (Because lets face it, most people on Reddit mis use that feature that way.)

I think they both have just as much credence for balance feed back.

And that is very limited with a heavy grain of salt sprinkled all atop them.

Kagamiku.9731:

My point is you HAVE to go tools to grab the trait, a full 6 because that is how the new system works, even if you don’t want any of the grandmasters.

Please, just stop. Your logic is hurting my brain. The grandmasters are good, so you do want them. Case closed. The only way your point would apply is if every trait in tools sucked and you took tools exclusively for the swiftness…Which clearly is not the case.

My logic is hurting your brain because you live in denial. How good the grandmasters are is irrelevant.

Once again the point flies above your head at breakneck speed. I will try to make this as simple as possible a final time for you and your aching brain.

NOT ALL Engineers, no matter how good or bad a line is, will want to spec in it, BECAUSE, people are different, and PEOPLE play different things OUTSIDE whatever the Meta defines sometimes.

BECAUSE of the new system, YOU can’t go 2 OR 4 into any trait line without committing a full 6. THUS it becomes less WHAT trait you want, but RATHER what LINE you want.

This means you have to take a whole line if you want the swiftness. Not one trait, a whole line. This has nothing with how good Tools is, because Tools is kitten good.

I fear I can’t explain this any simpler, and so I will bow out, agreeing to disagree with you all, because no matter what I say, it won’t change your views on how your preferred class is the underdog who is far too edgy for Anet to like.

On an off note, there have been many studies which have found human psychology would rather stick to one principle knowing it is wrong than take on board other’s views. The familiarity it breeds with ideas in it’s head causes a affection to them and it has a hard time giving them up even in the face of logic… Just saying…

Kagamiku.9731:

Pretty much everyone here agrees engi > all
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Who-won-the-balance-changes/first

Aoe moa, blast on dodge, buffed elite skill that was already very strong, a buff to those ridiculous grenades that were far too strong already. List goes on.

They moved Incendiary Powder to GM, but I fail to see how they nerfed it: “Incendiary Powder: Your critical hits inflict 4s of burning. Burning you apply lasts 33% longer. This trait has a 10 second internal cooldown.”

And considering how much of a buff mesmers received, that’s saying something.

Please, you’re entitled to your opinion but lets not use a bunch of forum posts to represent a ‘majority’ of the player base.

In a post I can’t find but I read this morning on the GW2 subreddit that had quite a few upvotes (probably 50 by now or more) they said Mesmers got the biggest buff and infact Engi was 5th in terms of happiness with changes.

I am not saying that is proof of anything just as your link isn’t. We honestly have to wait and see.

And before you say I am biased, no, I haven’t invested anywhere near the same hours in Engineer as I have Warrior, Thief, Elementalist or Guardian.

Kagamiku.9731:

Except engis are not forced to go into tools for Steamlined Kits so I don’t see how that applies. Tools has many good traits, hell Steamlined isn’t even the best trait of the bunch.

You’re missing the point. Tools has amazing traits that I said I would love to and probably will take on my Engi.

My point is you HAVE to go tools to grab the trait, a full 6 because that is how the new system works, even if you don’t want any of the grandmasters.

Everything trait wise will be a heavier investment now, this has nothing to do with how useful the Tools line is but rather how the new system will promote having to commit to a line as opposed to cautiously edging into it for one or two traits.

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed.
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

A full line actually. With the new system you have to commit 6 points.

And no, only mesmer does that. Even necromancers bring a Warhorn for swiftness in WvW and with 1 point can make it almost perma alone.

No class but Mesmer has mobility issues that need to be addressed by a Rune.

Also kit refinement ISNT a large bonus. You don’t need to be a champion genius to figure out the hate for that trait due to its weak and nonsensical effects. If anything it is a cherry on top of the mobility cake. One small cherry.

1 trait point is 1 trait point. The fact that you have to take 2 similar ones now doesn’t mean you’re investing more.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed with 1 point. (the ones that dont get a signet passive)
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

try again when you can say something about the actual material there

But you’re wrong about your premise. One trait point is now one whole line. Try again when you say something about the actual material there.

Other classes also have access to swiftness far more often and less RNG than Engineer. There reliable swiftness application relies around traits.

Warriors have signet of rage, and warhorn.
Thieves don’t need swiftness.
Necromancers have warhorn and spectral walk
etc..

You can’t just view things in a vacuum because it fits your argument, try to be less subjective next time.

“The fact that you have to take 2 similar ones now doesn’t mean you’re investing more.”
You don’t get “investment” at all is all that needs to be said.

You wanna talk about other classes having other options? What about elixir B, elixir H, med kit, infusing precision? You get the option to not take those because they suck.

Necro literally has no other options at all besides warhorn and spectral walk. “Far more often” is a kittening joke. You get better swiftness application than a necro utility and offhand together with one trait.

Warrior likewise. Their elite and another utility slot for blowing balanced stance on cooldown don’t even add up to as much swiftness as speedy kits. You’re again taking an offhand just to match up and untraited horn is literally the kittentiest possible offhand in a fight in the game.

You can’t just view things poorly, try to be less mediocre next time.

Wrong again. There Engineers who don’t want to invest into the Tools line who are forced into it for one trait because that is how the new system will work. There isn’t just going in for one trait anymore, it is one Line or no line. So you’re whole premise is still incorrect.

And if you want to talk about Engineer mobility, let us also address gap closers and movement skills. Because for some reason we must view swiftness as its own thing when evidently it is a part of mobility balance.

Many classes have movement skills with much shorter cool downs that let them out run engineer and his Jumpshot with ease.

So please don’t try to educate me on Warrior, a class I have almost 4000 hours on, a class which I have outrun Engineers on with almost any weapon set, or the simple inclusion of a greatsword.

You can’t just make baseless arguments and nonsensical points, try to be coherent next time.

Toxsa.2701:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

PistolWhip.2697:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed.
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

A full line actually. With the new system you have to commit 6 points.

And no, only mesmer does that. Even necromancers bring a Warhorn for swiftness in WvW and with 1 point can make it almost perma alone.

No class but Mesmer has mobility issues that need to be addressed by a Rune.

Also kit refinement ISNT a large bonus. You don’t need to be a champion genius to figure out the hate for that trait due to its weak and nonsensical effects. If anything it is a cherry on top of the mobility cake. One small cherry.

Just saying, people do need to realize 25% and 33% is a HUGGGE difference in WvW in terms of mobility. It’s a life or death sentence of whether you could escape a zerg or thieves chasing you endlessly.

Having permanent access of 25% speed is NOTHING. Swiftness is more important. Too bad most classes need to sacrifice alot to achieve that, (lock the weapon choice usually) except Engi. Permanent Swiftness is harder to achieve than you think when you’re roaming.

How is sacrificing a full line for 1 trait not a lot? Tools is a great line and I enjoy using it, but not all Engi’s do, and they have to for 33% mobility.

Classes have to give up some things for mobility sure, but so does Engineer. You guys act like speedy kits is baseline. It isn’t.

The other nerfs I understand, but demanding that speedy kits be nerfed in it’s swiftness just seems like a jealous slap in the face by other classes.

Ah, most classes need to sacrifice the weapon choice AND wasting a full line on it to pick the trait that shorten the CD or grant swiftness after using x skills.

Not saying Engi shouldn’t get the swiftness, but my point is I originally thought they nerf speedy kit to compensate all the huge buffs they’re granting engi, making them a slower but more powerful nuker. I thought there’s a trade-off after all the buffing, but guess there’s no trade-off, just plain buffing.

I keep seeing that Engi is getting huge buffs. But they have had a few nerfs in the form of IP, which by moving it has changed a lot, poison nades etc.

Now, they have had buffs, but the most major ones have been on the support line where all the crazy traits are about healing allies.

We don’t even know if the changes will be as crazy for any class as people predict because it isn’t in-game yet. Heck. Some classes which can utilise power will be getting a buff directly due to the stat changes in base stats+gear dependency for all stats now.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/33txr5/cele_amulet_will_receive_a_10_overall_stat_nerf/

My point is, we have to wait and see.

Just to add ^ The same would of applied to the speedy kits change, but the reverted it, so nothing to be done now.

I viewed the reduction of swiftness as unnecessary but I willing to wait and see what would happen despite my reflex reaction to the nerf initially. Sometimes, things just don’t go as planned.

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed.
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

A full line actually. With the new system you have to commit 6 points.

And no, only mesmer does that. Even necromancers bring a Warhorn for swiftness in WvW and with 1 point can make it almost perma alone.

No class but Mesmer has mobility issues that need to be addressed by a Rune.

Also kit refinement ISNT a large bonus. You don’t need to be a champion genius to figure out the hate for that trait due to its weak and nonsensical effects. If anything it is a cherry on top of the mobility cake. One small cherry.

1 trait point is 1 trait point. The fact that you have to take 2 similar ones now doesn’t mean you’re investing more.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed with 1 point. (the ones that dont get a signet passive)
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

try again when you can say something about the actual material there

But you’re wrong about your premise. One trait point is now one whole line. Try again when you say something about the actual material there.

Other classes also have access to swiftness far more often and less RNG than Engineer. Their reliable swiftness application with the exception of Elixir B relies around traits.

Warriors have signet of rage, and warhorn.
Thieves don’t need swiftness.
Necromancers have warhorn and spectral walk
etc..

You can’t just view things in a vacuum because it fits your argument, try to be less subjective next time.

gavyne.6847:

Definitely have engie envy going on. For some reason they are really pushing to make people play engies by giving them buffs across the board.

Probably because they are the least played class along with Mesmer by the looks of any graphs we have seen.

Sadly, Necro is 3rd last, so they really aren’t doing any favours there either.

http://guildwars2viz.com/

Tommyknocker.6089:

If you watch the live stream it is self evident the devs working on the engy are quite excited over the changes. What I didn’t know was just how coddled their community was.

2 hours in or not, could you at least feign interest in the necro changes Joshua? And If not could we get another necro designer (or at very least player) to sit in the other seat.

I understand the frustration, but Joshua Davis mains Engineer, it only makes sense would be giddy over the changes.

Toxsa.2701:

PistolWhip.2697:

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed.
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

A full line actually. With the new system you have to commit 6 points.

And no, only mesmer does that. Even necromancers bring a Warhorn for swiftness in WvW and with 1 point can make it almost perma alone.

No class but Mesmer has mobility issues that need to be addressed by a Rune.

Also kit refinement ISNT a large bonus. You don’t need to be a champion genius to figure out the hate for that trait due to its weak and nonsensical effects. If anything it is a cherry on top of the mobility cake. One small cherry.

Just saying, people do need to realize 25% and 33% is a HUGGGE difference in WvW in terms of mobility. It’s a life or death sentence of whether you could escape a zerg or thieves chasing you endlessly.

Having permanent access of 25% speed is NOTHING. Swiftness is more important. Too bad most classes need to sacrifice alot to achieve that, (lock the weapon choice usually) except Engi. Permanent Swiftness is harder to achieve than you think when you’re roaming.

How is sacrificing a full line for 1 trait not a lot? Tools is a great line and I enjoy using it, but not all Engi’s do, and they have to for 33% mobility.

Classes have to give up some things for mobility sure, but so does Engineer. You guys act like speedy kits is baseline. It isn’t.

The other nerfs I understand, but demanding that speedy kits be nerfed in it’s swiftness just seems like a jealous slap in the face by other classes.

Linnael.1069:

PistolWhip.2697:

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

For 1 trait point every other profession in the game gets to buy 25% movespeed.
Engie gets permanent 33% with a large bonus on top.

A full line actually. With the new system you have to commit 6 points.

And no, only mesmer does that. Even necromancers bring a Warhorn for swiftness in WvW and with 1 point can make it almost perma alone.

No class but Mesmer has mobility issues that need to be addressed by a Rune.

Also kit refinement ISNT a large bonus. You don’t need to be a champion genius to figure out the hate for that trait due to its weak and nonsensical effects. If anything it is a cherry on top of the mobility cake. One small cherry.

JohnnyZero.5619:

MarkPhilips.5169:

Lock on and speedy kit are on the same master trait so it’s a good trade off.

No one would get speedy kit with 10s speed. Now with 20s is always a very good option.

It was fine as it was, I’m of the opinion that permanent swiftness without using cool downs to obtain was never a good design. It’s a good part of the reason why engi’s are so common.

The bigger problem for me is the disparity in developer response.

Common in which game mode?

http://guildwars2viz.com/

In PvP i hardly think Swiftness is the main factor, they are just very potent there.

in WvW and PvE? hardly. In fact their low population in those two game modes is probably why they score lowest with Mesmer in population.

Saiyan.1704:

Guards got an anti stealth trap.
Engi’s got an anti stealth trait.

Something tells me that Thieves Specialization is going to be disgusting.

Thief Elite Specialization: Vomit

Description: Disgusting.

Supreme.3164:

I’m just glad not all new players react like this, may you find peace in Blade and Soul…sayonara

Evidently there isn’t enough pixelated boobage for this young man to stare at during his intense fap sessions in matchmaking queue. Blade and Soul is the only other viable choice.

I doubt that, people would of rather taken Medkit to run around in PvE, and WvW a lot of people bought Traveler Runes.

Plus a big part of Speedy kits was its synergy with IS in alchemy, which was nerfed due to the frequency of speedy’s procs after the coming patch AND the vigor nerf. Which means Speedy has been nerfed on two accounts.

At least with this it is an enticing mobility option.

style.6173:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Engineer or thief cos thief kills everything

Thief is one of the easiest matchups for me. You must not play engineer.

As others have said, anyone who can condi spam is a problem.

Pretty sure he plays Necromancer and whines about almost any other class on the face of the Earth.

Toxsa.2701:

Lol, interesting. So the Engi guy is actually more easily persuaded than other guy. The Necro guy probably is a stubborn-minded person who actually care about balance while the engi guy doesn’t really care about balance and just want a class to be stronger.

Now Engi will truly be God-tier after they take back the nerf.

Oh cmon, all things aside, 10 seconds extra swiftness is hardly what will carry any class to ‘God-tier’ regardless of what you think of any other change.

Please, let’s not be silly about that.

As for the red posts, Josh Davis just happens to main Engi and be an active figure in terms of community interaction.

T raw.4658:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

This is a little off topic but:

As a community we need to stop calling things “Brain dead.” It’s a term used so much that it’s beginning to cheapen the posts it’s used in.

I almost went “knee jerk response” and ignored the whole post, even though I also play a thief and could benefit from supporting this.

EDIT: Went back and read the topic.

>Dont stand in fields
>Dont SR when an engie is near

and prob solved.

Says the Charr Warrior lol.

The lock on trait is a bad idea and would be the equivalent of thieves being able to lock you out of adrenaline gains for 18 of 20 seconds.

Wrong. This trait would be the equivalent of an engineer being able to lock out a warrior from gaining adrenaline for 18 or 20 seconds, of which since it contests with speedy kits the warrior could just run and reset from using GS or Sword leap and swiftness of which it has abundance of and return to fight the Engi.

Your example is wrong because a warrior couldn’t reset the fight as a thief could catch it especially since mobility skills won’t be effected by swiftness and thief mobility is unhindered due to it all being ports. Where as an engineer lacks the mobility after giving up speedy kits to catch said warrior, or thief. Which if revealed can run and reset or head to another point.

That said, I will still be taking speedy/streamlined, since the reinstallment of perma swiftness purely because I don’t and have never needed to reveal thieves to kill them or at least push them off point.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

I was looking through Streamlined Kits and the effective loss of swiftness uptime there was an unintended consequence of Kit Refinement being packed together with Speedy Kits. I’ve gone ahead and changed the swiftness from Streamlined Kits to a 20s duration.

That is awesome thanks so much!

I also wanted to ask though, will kit refinement put us in combat?

Could the you make it so like many other abilities, kit refinement only procs IN combat, so out of combat all u get is the swiftness? And thus don’t get your movement reduced by being put in combat accidentally?

Also thanks! This is a nerf to the vigor uptime on engi BUT I am more than happy to have this as consolation!

lordkrall.7241:

Aye, I would also like to hear an explanation for this change. I don’t think the change is really needed so would be interesting to hear why it was made.

I never thought I’d see this day. q_q7

coglin.1867:

PistolWhip.2697:

Okay seriously who are these Engineers using med kit?

Healing turret is the go to heal, please, lets not be silly.

A fair amount of engies use med kit now.

.

Oh cmon, you’re being ridiculous. In my 3 years of gameplay I have run into maybe 3 Engis that have touched Med kit.

Look on youtube, look on twitch, ask your pals 90% of them use healing turret, some elixir if they want to relive the HGH dream, other than that. nah.

ukuni.8745:

Banumiel.1926:

ukuni.8745:

mesmers need kiting more and dont have swiftness? i cant think of another class that dosent intelligently need to do something in order to get perma swiftness, also med kit is going to be an amazing kit to take with the right builds so its not like your going to be forced to take you will want to take it.

We have clones like the mesmer?
Mesmer is other class with OTHER characteristics, we need mobility

thats all you took from this?

also mobility and kiting are 2 different things make up your mind.

Mesmer has a lot of in combat mobility to aid it’s kiting. If it just ran around it would die to most.

Blink, Staff 2, Sword 3 I leap, and Stealth all help it in kiting.

Engineer is limited in this capacity, so please, apples and oranges.

Magira.6390:

PistolWhip.2697:

Its nice and all but you will spend half your play time running to the fights at a snail pace. ENJOY!

Ever heard of Traveller Runes?

I bought some a bit ago.

Maybe the hammer will have mobility skills. That might be the go to roamer weapon, and that could redeem it. We’ll have to wait and see.