Even if you kill people with this build i guess it is more likely because nobody experienced playing against such a thief. If it was meta everyone and their dog would know how to counter you.
All you have with this build is the element of surprise. Other than that marauder staff meta teef seems better at first look.
EDIT: Bounding dagger should be better since you probably spam Vault, having extra dps on dodge might not be so bad idea.
It’s really not that different than what’s on metabattle.
Impaling daggers is nice to stop someone kiting and then pound them w/ as many vaults as i have initiative for.
I like shadow of refuge for 2 reasons:
It’s a way to escape when i’m about to go down.
It allows me decap a point right after the other team caps it by sneaking by the enemy as he moves to rotate.
What i like the most is the 50% damage increase from traits.
It is very glassy though. My main defense is mobility and evades.
4 kills and only 4 capped points, not very OP. The other thief was the OP one, you are one of the stubborn thieves that refuses to admit the class is not very good. Also, sure I have seen double thief teams win but I’m sure your team probably hated having to carry you.
We won by over 250 pts so…. Not really a carry.
I thought personal score wasn’t an indicator of a good player. Don’t worry. I’ll give you better examples when I play tonight. This actually wasn’t that good of a match for me. Don’t take my word for it, i’ll post the scoreboard
if you say their class is trash they start going on about how you have no idea of what you are talking about and the class is so OP.
Looks at all of the thieves jumping in to chime in about how OP they really are
Point proven.
What point? That you are a dismissive idiot? Thief is very powerful, it just happens to have a high skill floor.
All you have proven is that you’ve had this conversation before and other players told you that you don’t know what you are talking about.
Thief, like every other class, is only as good as the person playing the game. When I play thief, it’s OP as kitten!
That most thieves don’t realize your class is not that good anymore. At least warriors accept it and admit it.
It’s not that i don’t realize it, it’s that it’s simply not true. For me at least. Thief is the most fun to play. I win matches just fine. The matches that i lose usually have someone like you…
A loser in denial blaming everyone else for their problems. You spread this hate because you suck at playing thief. Not because thief sucks
Mesmer – some are good, some are bad
Elementalist – some are good, some are bad
Engineer – some are good, some are bad
Necromancer – some are good, some are bad
Ranger – some are good, some are bad
Warrior – some are good, some are bad
Guardian – some are good, some are bad
Revnant – some are good, some are bad
Thief – some are good, some are bad
The problem isnt the one thief on your team, because one thief isnt a problem and can be good to have. but… The problem is when you have 2 thieves and none of them want to swap. 2 thieves and you can basically go afk right away. Ok, to be fair i have actually won one game where i had 2 thieves, but that was also my first and only time.
But i guess that actually goes for any class. People who cant swap to an alt, shouldnt be higher than ruby. I play 3 classes, ele, engi and necro. The least you can do is play both a support class like ele and ranger, and a high damage class like rev, nec or guard.
2 thiefs is fine. As long as it’s 2 good thiefs.
No 2 thieves is never fine unless the opposing team is abysmal.
The 3 other players have to carry so hard its not even funny.
What’s funny is how when I play my thief and there is a second thief on my team, we usually win the match and me and the other thief have the highest personal score. You have no idea what you are talking about. Sounds like you lose with thiefs on your team, but you said you have to carry so hard with thiefs on your team. Does that mean you suck at carrying?
The problem isnt the one thief on your team, because one thief isnt a problem and can be good to have. but… The problem is when you have 2 thieves and none of them want to swap. 2 thieves and you can basically go afk right away. Ok, to be fair i have actually won one game where i had 2 thieves, but that was also my first and only time.
But i guess that actually goes for any class. People who cant swap to an alt, shouldnt be higher than ruby. I play 3 classes, ele, engi and necro. The least you can do is play both a support class like ele and ranger, and a high damage class like rev, nec or guard.
The state of the class is fine. Because IF you know how to play thief, you can dominate the match. Just because the class doesn’t lend itself to beginner level gameplay, doesn’t mean the class sucks. The majority of “class balance” issues are actually l2p issues.
Stop the thief hate. I carry matches as a thief. What you really need to watch out for is crappy players that play meta builds. You see them and you’re like, “Good. I got 2 necros, a rev, and engi on my team. I’m totally gonna win.” Then, your team loses every fight that you aren’t in on. Even when they have +1 advantage. A good theif is hard to beat. There is no class the I can’t beat in a 1v1, only better players beat me. Thief is sooooo fast. Dash, infultrator’s arrow, signet of agility. The key to playing theif is don’t get hit, and you have plenty of evades and blinds to do it.
Lets just say a bad druid or something else isnt as matchbreaking as a bad thief. I love having a good thief on my team. With good i mean a thief who knows his mechanics good and knowns how to rotate properly.
A druid who sucks still can be more useful then a sucking thief.
I guess thats what makes thief hate rise, there just not many thiefs who can play the class on a viable level.
Druid is a good example. Your pet does a lot of your dps for you so I think it’s an easier class to play well. Thief is much less forgiving gameplay. If you can’t shut down their attacks and stick the insane amount of burst you have, you’re pretty much dead. But I have to say this again: the amount of speed and burst you have as thief is INSANE.
I love it when teammates start complaining about 2 thiefs on a team, then we destroy the other team by pushing far and shrinking the map. Thief is imo the most fun class to play. Smokin bunkers like they’re blunts son.
Stop the thief hate. I carry matches as a thief. What you really need to watch out for is crappy players that play meta builds. You see them and you’re like, “Good. I got 2 necros, a rev, and engi on my team. I’m totally gonna win.” Then, your team loses every fight that you aren’t in on. Even when they have +1 advantage. A good theif is hard to beat. There is no class the I can’t beat in a 1v1, only better players beat me. Thief is sooooo fast. Dash, infultrator’s arrow, signet of agility. The key to playing theif is don’t get hit, and you have plenty of evades and blinds to do it.
They’ll say q times blah blah blah. Actually, I think they are nasty trolls that get a kick out of punching babies in the face.
When I finally got to sapphire, I wrote something on map chat about it. 2 legendary players starting making fun of me asking why I was proud of it. He got pretty defensive when i asked him how many hours a day he played. Mother kitteners need a life. I don’t have time to play a video game 8 hours a day and I think for the amount of time I put in i’m doing pretty good.
S1 and S2 both have there own problems. This season is definitely punishing lower level players. Personally, I think S1 was better. Maybe give extra pips for carrying a match. If the MMR difference between best and worst player passes a certain threshold, the higher level player is eligible for an extra pip if they win. S2 might have worked but alt accounts and late starts are not allowing the skill levels to spread out the way Anet said it would.
This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.
abolish mmr and just match people randomly within division? Can’t be worse than it is now
Hell no. There’s nothing I hate more than having bads on my team.
So make it MMR vs MMR again.
Anyway, “top players” don’t need a faulty Match Making to wins matches, isn’t?
The problem with that is it punishes you for having a high MMR by pairing you with players with really low MMR to make the teams average out.
They can’t possibly expect a 50% win rate at anytime. The outcome is completely dependent on the randomness of whoever is within pip range, and with legendary players going back through the ladder over and over there is always a chance of being greatly outmatched. This is the opposite of what Anet said would happen. They said players would spread out over time based on skill, but if players are using alt accounts to go back through the ladder, the lower level players aren’t getting the opportunity to have competitive matches toward the end of the season like they were promised.
2 thieves on a team is pretty good if they are the right thieves. But i’m sure you’ll disagree so no need to tell me.
Just because a class mechanic allows for stacking, doesn’t mean the class is OP. I win matches against Reapers; I lose matches against Reapers. 3 reapers 2 reapers whatever. Most important thing is HOW you play. Doesn’t reaper have a counter?
Honestly dude balance isn’t that bad. I know that’s not the popular thing to say. It’s not as interesting as “balance sucks, so OP, elite specs ruined the game, I hate this game.”
I play mainly Rev, DH, and DD thief and guess what? They all do pretty well for their given roles. I see warriors brave into a match and do some awesome plays. I tried engi and eli for a while and they do okay just not my style. Druid has some good potential and everyone seems to think Reaper is most op.
Now the point: META doesn’t suck. META is a lie. Balance is fine. If a class sucks for you, you’re not playing it right.
How many pros are there? Isn’t there already a pro league? If you are such a pro why can’t you handle a few noobs on your team every once in a while.
There just needs to be an individual rating system that drives your MMR and each team’s total MMR should be as close to the same as possible.
So you want to back track to season 1 is what your saying….
TEAM A MMR RATINGS: 40, 40, 40, 10, 40… Total 170
TEAM B MMR RATINGS: 30, 30, 25, 10, 75… Total 170
Team A has the obvious advantage as the majority of players in team A should be able to defeat the players in team B.
I just pulled those numbers out of my bum but you get the point… This is the issue we had in season 1 and that is what it seems like your asking for again… The example from my understanding is how season 1 worked…
Give pips for individual performance as well as ream performance. So if a team loses, some will lose pips and some will not. That way pros and elites can still move through quickly
Please tell me more emerald/sapphire players about playing against pro players…. wait what?! You play against pro players?! That means that you alone are pro to, but your team mates are trash only…. do you even see what you wright?! You are a trash pvp player if you are in emerald/sapphire and you try even now to get out of there! Against pro players, huhhh; I’m legendary x1, and I still don’t call my self pro player, there are players who are even legendary x11, try to play against a full legendary team, and win it, while you are all in diamond, now that’s a real challenge, and that’s how I got to legendary. Solo 75%, 25% duo-trio. MMR is hell, but if you really know you deserve more, you get more, last season I was diamond, now legendary, maybe in season 3 I will be legendary x5, what’s stopping me, my own ego, once I believed in my self that I can get legendary I got it! Now I got 6 pips in legendary, and won’t stop! The biggest issue is the legendary solo thieves, rarely they are good, or help in team fights. PvP is team fight not 1vs1, every idiot can 1vs1 or 2vs2, but to play a strategy/tactic, they can’t, that’s why you are all in emerald/sapphire, no matter how good you are in 1vs1, the biggest problem is to know were to be, and why, who to support, how to flag someone, res someone, and I think you are trash at it!
And yes, there are trash players in legendary too, that’s why there are x7 x11 legendary players!
Tell me again about playing against pro players/teams, you never done it, trust me! I think with my legendary x1 I’m a normal player, who still has learning to do! And you at emerald and sapphire are world class, please tell me more!
Do the pros play ranked? Didn’t they have to go through amber-emerald-sapphire-ruby-diamond-legendary and on and on? Didn’t they start at the same time as everyone else? Didn’t these lowly pvp scrubs get their sweet little pvp faces bashed in? I was there. I saw it. It wasn’t pretty. And now they all have brain damage. So be nice to scrubs, it was on there faces that you climbed to your upper-middle-elite spot in the pvp ladder of greatness. I’m stoked i finally got to saphire so kitten off!
I have the least exp on my necro. I craft leveled him to 80 and now i just use him to craft stuff to sell on TP, but maybe i’ll give it a try. Necro just feels so slow…
If you’re really as good as you think, you should have a tip-top MMR in no time at all.
Pro players complained about this in season 1, so it got changed. Pro players now complain of being bored in legendary league so now take their alts through to legendary all over again because they can do it so quickly thanks to season 2 -.-
PZ are masters of the farm.
How many pros are there? Isn’t there already a pro league? If you are such a pro why can’t you handle a few noobs on your team every once in a while.
There just needs to be an individual rating system that drives your MMR and each team’s total MMR should be as close to the same as possible.
I’ve been dealing with this cycle of wins and losses for 2 weeks and i’ve been stuck in t5 emerald the whole time. Why do i only get good teammates half the time?
Ah, but it would be so easy to let scoreboard reflect more contribution.
Like… you get 5 points for every 10k dmg dealt/soaked/healed… and you get -25 points for every time you die.
Then score could be used to determine contribution to win/loss et voila… individual mmr.
So what if leaving portals isnt part of score? You get points for stuff that result out of it.
And the times where sitting on point afk was a thing, those times are long over.
What u suggested is still a bad metric.
Doing more damage =/= more contribution. I won a lot of games by doing only 300-400k damage because we coordinated well and got quick kills. I lost games I did 800k+ damage because we don’t have good focus fire and most damage got outhealed.
Also, you stick to a fight for long time you will do more dmg/soak more dmg/do more healing. But that fight could be a fight not worth taking(e.g. fighting a bunker on an enemey-captured node) which is clearly a bad fight to take.
In any event it’ll be better than what we have now. It’s really to help solo q more than anything
Computer lag is an issue that know one really talks about. ISP speeds, hardware limitations. How much do you need to spend on ISP service and gaming computers to maintain realtime control of your character? Sometimes i get a 2 sec delay on skill activation. Is that my side or server side? If it’s server side do you think everyone is affected equally within a match?
Another thing no one talks about: kittens that use macros (nobody does that!)
They need a new metric that can give individual rating based on contributing to the win. i.e. capping/decapping points, dps on points, stomps on points, secondary objectives that swing the momentum. I’m sure the math would be far more complex, but that’s why devs get the big bucks right? I remember gaining pips on loses in S1, what was mechanic for that?
trapper runes were awesome for ranger when they gave 4 seconds of stealth, but everyone was crying about it so they nerfed the duration down to 2 seconds, imo 2 seconds won’t give enough time to reposition so you end up burning through all your traps to get a decent amount of stealth/superspeed. Not worth it any more, but apparently these runes still work in hotjoin :P
I think a lot of you are missing my point. What’s done is done for season 2, win or lose. But season 3 won’t be a fresh start if it’s still using MMR from season 2 and 1, its irreversible damaged my MMR. It would be like a sports team that is forced to start with a -10 score at the start of the season, just because that team lost the year before. And the team that won gets +10 at the start. This does not happen. I think almost all start at 0 in the interest of fair play. but not GW2 PvP its rigged, corrupt and anything but fair, and I no longer want anything to do with it.
For me, there is no “so we had a bad run this season, we’ll pick it up on the next one” no, no we can’t. because that “bad run” is going to drag me down for the next season too, and the one after that and the one after that.
I don’t know you, so I can’t speak to your skill level but I literally cruised right through emerald in like 2 hours. I’m maybe your MMR is where it’s supposed to be?
I cruised through amber and the first 4 tiers of emerald… Then I got some bad team comps and the rest is a sad sad story…
You’re right. The numbers don’t lie. And i believe other posts have mathematically explained how people can get stuck with a MMR below their actual skill level.
I’ve been in situations where i double down double stomp a 1v2 on my engi while the rest of my team gets wiped on a 4v3. Why should i have to carry the pvptards? Because i trashed my MMR in S1 when i learned how to play? I think all you stellar pvp elites should have the dead weight on your teams. You’re fine with it cause the deck is stacked in your favor.
i wouldn’t call myself elite. BUT! If you just learned how to play in s1 you shouldnt be good enough to carry or make it to legendary unless you are an extremely special player. A lot of us have been playing for years and some still wont make it to legendary.
I’m not hoping to get to legendary. I’ve been stuck in t5 emerald for 3 weeks. every night i get to within 1 pip and then things get kitty. Seriously some nights i’ll get to within 1 pip 3 times. The wins are strong wins too. (More than 100pts) Then “magically” the last match before i get out of bloody emerald i get captain pvptard on my team. EVERY kittenING TIME!!!
Just to clarify, an example of a pvptard is someone who follows you to home and tries to cap the point with you. Then when you try to leave the point and let them get the cap, they follow you off point and leave it neutral. So you turn around to go back and finish capping and guess what? THEY FOLLOW YOU BACK ONTO THE POINT!!!
Tbh trapper runes are extremely bad on DH, cause if you put down a trap you get insta revealed anyway after an enemy steps in and the only benefits from the rune are #4 and #6, the rest is basically useless
i personally would use pack or the good old traveler rune, cause you have no acces to swiftness (iirc) and that extra movement speed is nice for kiting
Have you tried evasion runes on dh? Swiftness & fury on dodge
They were pretty awesome for Ranger, DH broke them and ruined it for other trap classes. When they first hit pvp it was 4 sec of stealth per trap
While we are on the subject, does anyone think they got those elite specs backwards.
Ranger elite should be Dragonhunter
Gaurdian elite should be Druid
You’re right. The numbers don’t lie. And i believe other posts have mathematically explained how people can get stuck with a MMR below their actual skill level.
I’ve been in situations where i double down double stomp a 1v2 on my engi while the rest of my team gets wiped on a 4v3. Why should i have to carry the pvptards? Because i trashed my MMR in S1 when i learned how to play? I think all you stellar pvp elites should have the dead weight on your teams. You’re fine with it cause the deck is stacked in your favor.
you can pay all you want doesnt mean the game should be easier. so all those saying they paid money to play a game thats fine, PVP is what it is. If you cant handle losing a lot i would suggest not pvping.
You missed the point. PVP is not the fair competitive environment you think it is. When you pay money for something it should work as advertised. Unless you know something i don’t. The system is flawed and biased. These lopsided blowout matches are even happening in diamond and legendary. If the system is fair, only high caliber players should be in those divisions. A landslide in diamond should only be a 150 pt delta. not 450!
So, clearly we have an issue with matchmaking. Clearly people want the issue resolved.
What is not clear is how that is to be done? Just saying “remove MMR” doesn’t cut it, because there needs to be something to fill that shoe — otherwise matchmaking would be pure chaos.
So, my question is:
How do you propose A-net should build their matchmaking system?
uhmm isn’t the div system a replacement? .. you win you move up , you lose you don’t. pretty simple.
Wouldn’t that be akin to a delayed reward track? Considering it is not degradable.
Make teams and matches both solely on tier and pips….
In any elimination tournament, I would’ve been out long ago. In a Swiss tournament, I’d be playing other people as bad as me and at least we’d both have a chance to win.
I finally got to the point where I realized, “Ok, I’m over my head, time to go back to unranked.” The feeling sucked, but the better players do deserve to be rewarded and recognized, and the current matchmaking will elevate them out of the pack like they deserve.
But, wait! I can advance my Daily League Participator just by showing up! So I, and others like me, have an incentive to queue up for ranked, creating sometimes comically unbalanced games that we all have to sit through.
I hope Anet will take another look at the effect of achievements on league PvP. I don’t think “points for showing up” plays well in a competitive environment.
I’m fine with achievements that I can’t do because I’m not good enough.
Achievements that anyone can do, even if they’re terrible, lead to more bad matches, and defies the meaning of the word “achievement”. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
In theory it doesn’t really matter. An elo reset doesn’t change the eventual result and slows down the sorting of players. It’s the matchmaking system that’s the issue, once everyone has played 200-250 games if you don’t get stuck in an elo spiral iit’ll even out.
Explain to me how starting a season with an advantage from last season will give the same result as starting everyone on a level playing field? I guess you learned to play before they stacked the deck.
How do you think predetermined MMR from S1 affected the MMR hell?
Well, in my case, knowing that there was no other consequence than loosing a match I didn’t mind playing riskier builds last season. When the rules changed I sooooo regretted having done that.
Next time, warn people before you make such changes or reset the metric you want to use.
