Guild Wars 2

Make removing burning a higher priority. It’s the hardest hitting of the conditions but it is one of the last removed.

This game is constructed like a MOBA where different gear and traits gives you different roles. I’ve yet to see anything that changes this opinion. So if you spec and gear for it, dps should be one of your roles if you choose. The fact they have slowly increased the strength of Med builds would support this as well.

The funny thing is I don’t feel overly supportive by going full support. I feel like I could be doing more support on another class like Warrior or Ele

Julie Yann.5379:

Personally I prefer banners, all you need is 1 leaving you with 2 free utility slots. Shouts don’t give any stability which is always a problem.

I sometimes greatly miss the stability. However, shoutheal allows you to constantly cleanse Conditions off everyone. I didn’t like shouts at all at first, but really am digging the fact I can basically make some of these cheesy conditions builds next to worthless.

I say try each and see what you prefer.

Lately my friend and I have been playing a pair of shoutheals and its pretty funny pushing far and watching the other team struggle to dislodge us. Pretty high win % when together too.

I am amazed at the lack of viable builds for each class. Most classes have 1 or 2 builds and only small variations on each that work.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJARWl0ApYoNDxVI8DNRCRl5MEgY+Bhw1XQAcAA-TlCBABbpMQLleopEshLAgCHCAAeAAWq+zGHBge2fQPdBkCgJhRA-w

Here is the current build I have been playing for ages. At the stage where I am making some ascended Armor. Any thoughts on whether to make it PVT or Celestial for WvW?

Can we remove this map already? Nothing can fix it. It’s just plain awful.

dylan.5409:

Not everyone agrees, not by a long shot.
I remember when the game first came out people were arguing that elites shoudn’t be as powerful as they are (an I win button) if you want a fair and competitive game.
The three biggest offenders are crate, moa and lich form; all three force you to leave the area if possible and the last 2 will guarantee a win in an organized team spike, pretty much the opposite of balance.

I have to agree with this. These offensive Elites seem to dwarf the more defensive ones offering little or no counterplay.

Even with +25% run speed you are not going to be disengaging on a guardian. Maybe if you run sword/GS you could portal to something with sword and jump away, but without a great deal of luck I doubt you will disengage a very high % of the time.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJASWl8ApZo9CxWI0ENR8Ql5Y8i1GAPAuTxWA-TFDBABbpMQLlGNcBAU4IAUp6PnpEELlY4s/AAPAg80BsxhAQPNBkCQPhRA-w

I see you want to run Hammer. Here is a build that I often run in dungeons. It is not top dps but is a forgiving build that provides good dps and protection to your group. This build assumes you have access to might stacking from blasts. It is just an all round forgiving build to get started on. I went with Flame Legion because its all I could afford but other runes would obviously be better. Strength would be my preferred rune.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJASWlsApZoFDxWI8DNxCBl5L6PmboDXPhAMAA-TlCBwAbVGkT9HtK9QrEsxFAQxRAAwDAYzhAo3+D61FQKAmEGB-w

You will need to do some swapping for WvW. There are Not the same priorities. Here is a good basic build for WvW where you can reuse most of your accessories. Exotic PVT armor can be gotten quickly through several different means… I bought mine with karma. Rune of the Pack or Soldier might be a cheaper alternative.

Since Guardian is a group player there is obvious optomisations that can occur. These two builds work across both game modes.

If you are really lazy you could just run the same WvW build but swap to exotic beserker armor, weapon and accessories and your dps is still pretty good… not great but pretty good.

Kako.1930:

I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I’ve been hearing that they said they won’t be nerfing elementalists, so my guess is that if they do address this, it’ll be in the form of a might stacking nerf targeted toward the sigils and runes. Especially since elementalists went from completely useless to OP god mode after nothing but major nerfs to their elites, aside from the buffs to runes and sigils in the past year or so.

A nerf to might stacking runes would be their most probable move and perhaps shorten the duration of some of the Ele’s boons. Do they have too many sources of regen? Is their regen currently too strong? Does their might last too long and stack too high? Do they have too many sources of might? Anyone who spvps would be councerned that having 25 stacks of might for long durations of time is simply absurd.

The problem is they have a very high defense and a decent offensive output (with very easy to obtain might stacks). Not to mention many immunities and decent CC. They are imbalanced with what other classes can do. They have very little counterplay and just having one in an even numbered fight pretty much assures a victory. They have very strong defense and heal at 700+ HPS, which means very few builds can harm them 1v1 at all.

So they have 3 options 1) nerf might stacking 2) nerf Celestial 3) buff boon stripping and/or other counterplay 4) nerf the ele in general.

I would tend towards #4 for Ele and Engi as they seem to be the ones that are causing problems with the Celestial Gear + Might Stacking. The other classes that use it are not all that OP. But I would be happy with any move to make them more balanced with other classes.

Been running x/x/4/6/x variations a lot lately with tremendous success.

Basically Soldiers + Shouts + Warhorn make condition classes cry.

When their health is low, this is where someone in your party needs to interrupt.

Problem with Ele atm is there is not a lot of counterplay. They seem to be the machine gun to everyone elses Rock, Paper, Scissors.

They are a bit over the top atm.

They do not like being immobilised and scepter is a nice weapon against them but I a, not sure if you can 1v1 one without some mistakes on their part.

Was actually wishing the warrior skills were not so telegraphed, but I actually think the OP’has a better point its the other classes, particularly ranged classes with no cast times that are imba.

Why is Hammer stun so much of an issue for you?

Seriously the skill does medium damage at best and everyone has stability. If you don’t have stability you need to ask yourself why and adjust from there. People without stability are dead.

There is nothing that makes hammer stun any more of a problem than line of warding, fears, static, mass blindness, etc…

And I don’t even WvW on a Warrior.

My belief is that some classes can reset a fight, to their liking, too many times. Once, sure everyone can live with that, but 3 or 4 times gets a little absurd. Given the combo abilities are similar to a MOBA getting several chances at it is a bit ridiculous at times.

This is one area where WOW got it right. Sheep breaks on damage and you heal while you are sheeped. So there is considerable tradeoff to sheeping smeone.

Moa is i-win. I am quite flattered when someone Moa’s me as that means they see me as a threat. But really the ability to Moa and continue dpsing someone is pretty strong. I usually try to hide as a Moa but there is often not a lot of obstacles to use and the Moa seems to move rather slow. Perhaps if it had some crazy movement speed it would be more fun for every one… I mean like really fast with stability. It would be hilarious to see a bunch of people chasing a super speedy Moa around.

The Moa ability should work like Death Shroud and the Moa skin has its own health bar. If you kill the guy in Moa he is dead, but if you don’t he returns to his normal healthbar undamaged. This way the skill would be a CC and not an iwin button.

I also like the idea of super speedy Moa being full of laughs.

Mele weapon skills should never have long CD. That is the nature of mele, skills need to be available several times a fight. CD for the shield should be 20 and 30 seconds untraited.

Shield 4 is pretty weak. I have seen people suggest things like give Aegis and Protection. Or a knockdown. And/or greater damage. I quite like the Aegis and Protection option as it would make the Guardian shield different and give it a really strong function tying into what a sheild is for… blocking.

Shield 5. I am not sure what to make of this skill. The CC on it is rather nice, but it does not always seem to work. The heal on it is paltry. Basically, I do not think it lasts long enough and its often broken by CC if you try and actually protect people for any length of time. Basically, if they want it to remain the same it needs to last longer and protect you from the various things like fear that knock you out of it.

I’d like whirling wrath to hit everything in 1200 range and pull it into the centre for the duration of the skill please.

Since the trait is in the Power line it should scale off…

POWER…

Really who is speccing Zeal and is carrying Healing Power… its ridiculous.

Gold Tier) Ele is in a tier all its own. Then Engi…

Silver Tier) Shatter mesmer and thief… their damage is still off the charts but they have weaknesses…

Bronze Tier) Then everyone else. Each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

I had a mate tell me how Ranger was such a great counter to Ele. Next day I get a message whinging that he can’t move their health bar. I had a good laugh.

A lot of 4v5 issues could be fixed by dealing with cheesy builds and removing Skyhammer from SoloQ altogether.

1)One of the issues I see is that the matches are over before they even start. One team has a cheese factory and the other just a bunch of guys playing what they like. Cheese factory wins. So after the initial push and loss, someone on the other side goes for a smoke or a beer…

Until they really deal with the cheesy builds your going to see more and more 4v5’s. 90% of my 4v5’s someone has left due to the Cheese Factor.

2) Most of my 4v5’s occur in Skyhammer. So I think that says a lot. People switch to a very cheesy toon for that map and other people afk after they get pulled or knocked to their death.

Booms.2594:

Relentliss.2170:

Booms.2594:

Relentliss.2170:

adozu.6398:

50/50 meaning power or condi i guess? necro run exactly 2 builds in pvp.

Depends on what build you are running and what build they are running. Eg terrormancer is very effective at shutting down med guardian as he has no stability.

completely wrong, medi guard is one of the very very few specs that can beat a terrormancer 1v1

Fear Fear Fear …more fear if your still alive… your dead… yeah great counter. Unless the guy is really bad I don’t see it happening. And yeah I’ve killed a few terrormancers but they were not great players. And if I was running shout build vs them it would be a big stalemate as they have about 40-50k health to burn through.

Saiyan.1704:

I run a hybrid build, x/x/6/x/x
I’ve switched from Carrion to Berserker to Knight’s how ever I please with little to no issues. Guardians ARE one of the most balanced class in the game. Maybe not better in terms of one build owning all, like the war or engi, but we definitely have more build diversities.

Be interested in your observations. Was trying out some different gear set ups over the weekend and I really find the damage weak with everything except Beserker. I had some luck with Knights but only vs squishy targets.

try a regular 2 1 6 1 4 medi build and if youre still losing to ANY terror mancers then you suck.

Meh I think you are killing bad players and calling that good. I kill a lot of bad/average Necros but don’t consider that a big deal. A good Terrormancer will kite you like crazy and wear you down. The fight will be very prolonged. When you hit the phase where your abilities are on CD you will be in trouble. Usually, the fight is determined by whoever has buddies that rotate around faster.

What you need to video is the 5 guardians vs 5 Ele’s. I am not sure their health bars would move.

silentnight warrior.2714:

They only need to “fix” the adrenaline decay after leaving combat. 10 seconds to start losing adrenaline is enough IMO.
After that change i think warrior will be fine.

This was exactly what I was thinking. Giving it a small breather before it starts to decay would help. Could also make it build a little faster and decay a lot slower. I was thinking 20 sec but maybe 10 would be enough.

Warrior could use a little help to deal with conditions and ranged damage when using their 2h weapons. But I am not sure what.

mrauls.6519:

I’m happy to see retreat getting a recharge reduction. I’m considering working it into my utility bar. I always play shouts, and I hope to see further positive changes made to them in the near future!

Would love for our shouts to have shorter CD. 5-10 sec here and there would make a huge difference.

Booms.2594:

Relentliss.2170:

adozu.6398:

50/50 meaning power or condi i guess? necro run exactly 2 builds in pvp.

Depends on what build you are running and what build they are running. Eg terrormancer is very effective at shutting down med guardian as he has no stability.

completely wrong, medi guard is one of the very very few specs that can beat a terrormancer 1v1

Fear Fear Fear …more fear if your still alive… your dead… yeah great counter. Unless the guy is really bad I don’t see it happening. And yeah I’ve killed a few terrormancers but they were not great players. And if I was running shout build vs them it would be a big stalemate as they have about 40-50k health to burn through.

Saiyan.1704:

I run a hybrid build, x/x/6/x/x
I’ve switched from Carrion to Berserker to Knight’s how ever I please with little to no issues. Guardians ARE one of the most balanced class in the game. Maybe not better in terms of one build owning all, like the war or engi, but we definitely have more build diversities.

Be interested in your observations. Was trying out some different gear set ups over the weekend and I really find the damage weak with everything except Beserker. I had some luck with Knights but only vs squishy targets.

adozu.6398:

50/50 meaning power or condi i guess? necro run exactly 2 builds in pvp.

Depends on what build you are running and what build they are running. Eg terrormancer is very effective at shutting down med guardian as he has no stability.

I am just wondering what classes are supposed to be able to kill an Ele? Cause they seem to take a long time dying.

The cheese builds are ruining spvp.

I can look and predict the winner of most matches before they happen based on the classes. Team with most ele or engie power will likely win.

leonidash.9416:

1.INTRODUCE MOVEMENT IMPEDING SKILLS to the guardian,they would still be different to warriors as warriors have both mobility and movement impeding skills and thats fine if we only have movement impeding skills. mind you warriors also have great damage mitigation like endure pain and an awesome cleanse (cleansing ire and berserkers stance) so i dont think that it would be unfair,i mean you did give mesmers torment on auto attack.so it wouldn’t be a great deal to give guardians cripple on certain skills

2. REDUCE COOL DOWNS ON SKILLS ,this alone will revolutionize the guardian as a class trying to keep up to the meta,cool downs shouldn’t be anything more than 27 seconds untraited.this change here will allow for so much build diversity.

This is what we have been calling for since Day 1. Add in a legitimate condition build and our class would be in a much better place.

shimmerlessEU.6841:

Riot also does regular patches that are sane, measured and balanced around the competitive level (and they even hold back on releases for event servers until competitions are over). It is an immense cry away from GW2’s penchant for plopping out some absurd “miracle patch” every half a year that completely reworks the entire game.

Well Riot has a lot more profitable model than GW2 the characters also have a lot less skills with a lot less buffs, donditions and variables.

Saiyan.1704:

Relentliss.2170:

If both classes are of the same skill level it would be very difficult if not impossible to beat an Engi, Ele or Necro. The best you could hope for is to hold out for help.

I don’t entirely agree. I have no issues with Engi and Necros. I’d have to be top notch to face Eles though. In all we can pretty much hold our own vs most classes.

From what i’ve seen the new meta are normally x/x/6/6/x, Staff, supplying might and heals to Ele’s, or >insert sustain dmg here< classes.

You talking about killing or holding out? When I play my Engie I can kill about 5/6 guardians. The 6th holds out a long time. I consider myself average.

Necros are a 50/50 mixed bag as their specs vary so much. They just last forever with their double health pool.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

The base idea behind this build is alright however it has some problems.
1: Very little condition removal.
2: Most of your damage is linked to spirit weapons & if they die (which can happen very easily) your screwed.

1. is a weakness of spirit weapon builds, number one can be fixed rather easily via traits, sigil & utility if you so choose.

Yes it is! You need help vs a condition class but it is quite strong at taking out or neutralising glassy classes in a team fight.

You can run purging flames in your last spot, grab purity and the signet heal for conditions. You might even run purity sigil on your scepter. The build I gave you is just the base.

I was fiddling with it last night and improved it quite a bit. Still got one or two kinks to work out. I find this one works a little better for me than my friend’s build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNArdSlsApIoFCxKI8DRx+Ql1YUVAg9PcEB6lzwHA-TZBHABAcIAM4JA0y+DJXGosTAAA
Purging Flames is a good alternative to the Bane Signet depending on what foes you see. I still like shelter over signet heal, but you might want that for a little condition removal. Glacial Heart is a good option over Defender’s Flame, but I was facing at least 1 ranger and the combo of DF + Focus + Aegis + Shelter really caused them a lot of issues. Had a lot of success dueling people on points and helping to rid the point of glass cannons. Oddly, you usually lose a duel to a Med Guardian, due to Monks Focus, but it is prolonged and close… both people who fought and beat me commented in Map Chat that it was a tough fight and close. If you get the 4 on the Hammer at the right time it can mean victory.

If both classes are of the same skill level it would be very difficult if not impossible to beat an Engi, Ele or Necro. The best you could hope for is to hold out for help.

So yeah, due to inattention we’ve become the underdog.

The new meta seems to be 2 Eles and another bunker. Some people keep playing guardian because they are comfortable with it. But more commonly its 2 eles and an engie.

We are still fine in WvW and PVE but our long cd are making us less desirable in spvp.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNArdWlsApIotCxKI8DRx+gk14qCg5wbX35zIA-TJBHwAAOFAGeCAr2fwZZAA

My friend runs something like this. The basic premise is to buff the spirt weapons up with might and immobilise your foe for the kill with your scepter. With 15 stacks of might they do a lot of damage.

You can run with any runes you want and the 3rd skill is up to you. Basically Spirit Hammer and Spirt Sword are the basis of your utilities but the Shield is nice vs ranged opponents and JI vs mobile ones. Hold the Line is also nice for the 3rd skill.

I like running runes of mercy with this so while my hammer and sword are pestering people I rez my team mates back up and get them into the fight.

Empower as it gives might to both allies and spirit weapons acts as a nice heal using AH.

The conquest-only game mode makes turret engi very strong. If there was a capture a flag mode or something in the mix of possible games the class might not be. Kit engi is strong but not as strong as necro or ele and can be bursted down by a mesmer or theif. The stale game type makes this play-style very strong in SoloQ and Hotjoin. I would much rather see them add to the game diversity than simply gut particular playstyles.

Tao.5096:

ele is op?
I pwn every ele in spvp with my d/d necro.
10/10 rekt

I’d like to see these fights against good Ele’s.

No matter what class I play Ele’s seem to be the hardest match up.

You can just run a tanky build and go zerker gear. I did that the other night and no one in my group seemed to notice.

JinDaVikk.7291:

^^ what you just said makes ur post worthless.

Bunker guardian can survive far longer in every situation than engi.

lol GG

No way. I stall 2-3 people for a good minute or two with my Engi. I run out of abilities and die quicker on my Guardian. And I have a lot more games on my Guardian 1000 vs 200.

Look at it this way. From my healing turret alone I can get a 4 sec reflective shield every 15 sec… just from that one turret. That is a lot of ranged damage I am not even taking. I have 3 other turrets and crates that also give the shield.

I can drop Turrets then run behind obstacles. I can keep damage up on people capping and not even be in range. With my Guardian, if I use the terrain I am not damaging. Hence the big discrepancy.

Not to mention I have an AOE blind, Thumper Knockback, Rocket Knockdown, Blind every 10 sec when attacked by a mele, Net on Rifle, Rifle knockback and Net on Crate. So a lot more CC. While these people are CC’d I am not having to mitigate any damage.

Guardian may have slightly more damage reduction and healing, but he is having to mitigate a lot more damage up front.

Is guardian still an effective bunker? Yes. But I would rather roll with a couple Ele’s or Engi’s these days.

Engi seems to have an imbalance of damage to survivability. I do more damage and am more surivivable on my Engi than I am on my Guardian (comparing both bunker specs). It needs a few tweaks, not a total gutting but a few tweaks.

TBH I am a little sick of how strong both Ele and Engi are compared to the other classes. The team with more of them will win 90% of the time.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Empowering-Wrath-13-Ascended-Stella-Alamarr/page/2#post4482859

I would have a look at this thread. Good starting point for a Med build that works.

After the ranger buff I switched from mace to scepter but still run this build.

You can also run it with Soldier’s gear and battle + intelligence sigils for more survivability.

Isn’t bleed on crit a blue trait for warrior?

Just sayin.

SPESHAL.9106:

Would you play ANY game where a RANKED contest could begin uneven?

Would you even play a game CASUALLY where rage quitters and team swappers corrupt the match and have no repercussions?

Would you play a game where you could get 1 shot (somketimes from stealth) on a certain map?

Would you play a game that REMOVES something that adds variety and fun instead of fixing it (i.e. underwater combat)?…Especially after having it in the game and people learning it for over a year!

Would you play a game that “fixes” a profession by putting Torment on an auto-attack, gives ‘hundred blades dmg’ at 1500 range, and allows bunker specs to stack might for high damage too?

Would you play ANY game that had the above problems PLUS gave miniscule rewards?

Just asking

Despite the sarcasm, I felt that this summed up the issues with pvp.

Ok well, Meditations give Fury which = more damage. Also just from smite condition you are getting a 2k heal every 16 sec (traited) . Hold the line is on a 30 sec cd and offers about the same healing (traited and geared).

To me it is mathematically a no brainer.

For personal effectiveness, and spvp is often about a 1v1 or 2v2 encounter, Meditations are better for solo play.

If you run a staff and AH. Ok you start to balance that healing out and over take Meditations. But this is at the cost of 1v1 effectiveness and using a weapon that is seriously not fun or offensively effective on its own. It is better in the 4v4 or 5v5 encounters if they happen. You can even gear and take a trait to be a real rezbot, which wins games for your team.

Team play – people lean towards AH bunker
Solo Queueing – Meditations seem to work better given the number of 1v1 and 2v2 that occurs.

I don’t really feel that Meditations are OP. It’s more that with the short CD to other classes offensive abilitities, Shouts seem to fall behind and leave you helpless in smaller encounters because of their long CD.

It would be nice if they could attract the pve crowd into spvp.

A few things throw people off:
Hotjoin is not fun. The autobalancer is broken and people stack teams. Its an intolerable pvp environment.
The rewards are quite decent now but not on par with other areas of the game. Not earning Karma is a real stickler for lots of people. Especially those working on an legendary weapon.
The maps are confusing to new players and objectives are not clear.
You get bad runs of people leaving and 4v5 are never fun for either side.
Similary bad mixes of classes, one team being all class X and an other being class Y.
The preset builds given to people are bad and if you are not sure what is going on they do not help you compete.
Unfriendly map chat in the game and the lobby.

I am not sure what the answers are to each of these. But I can offer a couple suggestions.
Hotjoin: Remove spectator mode and let the computer sort the new player automatically into the weaker or imbalanced side. Return of 8v8 perhaps?
Rewards: Wins and losses in Arnea give Karma.
Confusing: Not sure if you can combat a learning curve to pvp.
4v5: I am ready button that works. Replace the missing player automatically.
Imbalanced Teams: simple computer algorithm really
Preset builds: Easy fix. Give each noob player a meta-build that is pretty tanky.
Unfriendly map chat: Remove map chat inside the match. Team chat yes. Map chat no. This would help a little. Award positive contribution points – in LOL you can give people a vote as a good team mate and stuff, have it tie into actual rewards, this positive reinforcement would promote better behaviour.

Cynz.9437:

you wanna talk about weak weapon sets? let’s talk about thief ranged options, shall we?

would you like some thief shortbow maybe?

IP shouldn’t proc from any fart engi makes and should be moved to GM

I wasn’t talking about any other class besides Engineer and their weapons are very low damage because IP exists.

However, on other threads I have seen people brag about how they can defeat less mobile classes with just a shortbow, so I am not 100% sure how bad the damage actually is. And considering the weapon has a port, blast finisher and a couple combo finsihers, maybe the weapon is more for WvW than Spvp. I am sure you could trait Shortbow up so that it did respectable damage just like any weapon. They make each weapon set with spreadsheets not random theorycrafting.

Anymras.5729:

The devs have outright stated that Engineer non-Kit weapons are intentionally weak, due to the presence of Kits, which is also why Engineers don’t have Weapon Swap without Kits. Or, come to think of it, Weapon Choice, as Engineers literally have three on-land weapons (Pistol, Shield, Rifle; Pistol can be wielded in Off-Hand) and one in-water choice. Incendiary Powder has always been a ‘well, this kind of makes up for it, right?’ option.

I think that was kind of my point. The weapons would need to be totally redone because they are so weak without IP.

sinject.4607:

Relentliss.2170:

If you nerfed IP you would have to increase the damage of every weapon and skill the engie has to make up for it as offensive engie would not be possible. It would take a major rework.

It is so powerful, the best solution might be to make it a GM trait.

why do engineers get so worked up over the thought of having to choose between offensive or defensive viability like every other profession?

swapping it to GM won’t do anything and that’s why you want it: all meta engie builds have 6 points in explosives, and trading off the extra nade range or shorter bomb fuses for IP wouldn’t even take a second thought.

and now I wait for the standard “b-but engineer is weak to condition necro” routine,

I don’t really main an Engi. I have played one to understand them better and/or provide a condition option for my team or counter to other Engi’s. I don’t really like the class and also feel it has an imbalance of Offense & Defense at the same time. But I don’t want to see the class totally gutted or reduced to nothing but turrets.

You can not just remove IP without rehauling the whole class as their damage without IP is pretty low. Making someone chose between Grenadier and IP would at least weaking some of the OPness. Maybe an internal CD might also be necessary, but it is hard to say without playtesting.

The problem for both classes seems to be very limited number of effective builds.

TBH I can beat a similarly skilled Warrior on my Guardian and a similarly skilled Guardian on my Warrior. It depends a lot on what is on or off CD and who initiates the fight. ATM they are pretty balanced with each other.

My Warrior seems to have an easier time with Ele, Necro and Engi but the Guardian seems to do better vs Rangers and Thieves.

In the end they both have their pros and cons. Warrior definitely wins in mobility and range attacks whereas the Guardian seems to be able to do better burst. On the whole I would say they are more balanced than ever.