Guild Wars 2

kdaddy.5431:

Jelzouki.4128:

kdaddy.5431:

Jelzouki.4128:

kdaddy.5431:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

kdaddy.5431:

NO, i feel every other week or so someones throws this out there when the facts still are the same.

1- we had solo que and it died for many reasons

2-many people yolo qued

3- this is a team game of 5 vs 5 and no matter what many people will find a reason to why something is broken and its never them.

4- Its already been proven by the many devs who come on here saying you match history is fine. You lost because of the team you were on and the premade you were with. It is amazing that people come on here screaming about unfair match ups and then a dev comes on and shows there past 10 match ups and only one was unfair to them. Seriously how spoiled are the children here?

Good point. Only dead unpopular games like Dota 2 and LoL separate solo and team queues. Clearly GW2 knows how to make a successful and popular PvP experience. Let’s put faith in them as opposed to those other dead games.

A few things here, if you werent here you wouldnt of seen the times for solo que. Many of us had 15+ min solo que times. Which made it so there was no reason for solo que IN GW2.

Also your comparing 2 completely different games to one another. 2 mobas with premade characters and lanes to fight in. In GW2 where players make there own builds based on there own team comps. Its completely different in so many variations and comparing the 3 games is a bit re*****ed in any sense.

Just looking at GW2 history and PvP current situation. Solo isnt a good idea for the masses. There still isnt any league or PvP leaderboard, absolutely nothing to keep players other then the fact that GW2 has the best PvP system out there for individual success. People come onto this forum to complain about MM as it is.

Ive ran into premade Esl/Ag teams and when im on a team of pugs before the match has even started they cry and act like we have already lost. Having 2 seperate ques where potentially you have very average players going up against elite players because people are split into multiple ques from stronghold/ to solo conquest and team conquest.

Lastly we havent seen any of the rewards coming in the Exp, what if they dont interest the PvP player base? Ive given reason why it didnt work before and why it wont work in the future. Bringing in moba games with huge money tournaments and comparing to this is like comparing are not the same at all in a million different ways and you bringing it up simply forced me to write this monologue since i feel you didnt understand me.

Did you even watch helseths video? He makes a lot of sense. Your claim that spvp didn’t work in the past could be true, but there was no progression at that time; no league. Leagues change EVERYTHING.

i have not seen the vid but your quote of “leagues change everything” is simply not true. The majority of people on my friends list dont even play real matches anymore. They come on do PvP daily room knock out 3-4 of the daily and leave. What is to bring them back?

List of things that need reworked

*match making
*rewards
*diversity ( the ability to bring in a new crowd without alienating them and keeping old Gw2 Pvp players to stay)

• the appropriate fixes to PvP and bugs (seriously im still getting hit by skills under the building at kylo, etc)

These are just basics things that needed looking into. Not including everything they need to bring in such as new maps for conquest, deahth match and stronghold. It would be very disappointing to me if we didnt at least get 3 new conquest maps and 2 new death match maps and 1 new stronghold map.

To top it off you want Anet to just scrap there whole idea on PvP and do what helseth has said? So i ask you this, what is the % in your head they go in and change the PvP system to meet up to the standards in the video you have mentioned?

I don’t know what you mean by diversity but they are rolling out a new system for match making and rewards are fine. The legendary division does change everything. If you do PvP just to get your dailies done you can’t even comment on what PvP needs.

What are you even talking about? WATCH THE VIDEO. What do you mean by scrap the whole idea of PvP? They aren’t “scrapping” anything. Jesus I swear some people just like to talk without putting any reason behind it.

Alright a few things since you just dont seem to understand what im saying. I have now watched the video and it seems that Helseth and I agree on alot of things. A few things we differ is his belief that F2P is huge for the game.

I agree that GW2 is awesome and the PvP is elite in so many aspects but people coming into the game will struggle F2P or not. The Skill level in this game is unlike any other and what i meant about DIVERSITY is the ability for match making to put players in the right matches. What good is F2P and solo que if people of your level are not on. 2 things happen and 1 of which is you play players better then you over and over making you frustrated with the game. The other end is you playing players your better then and they get the very same feeling of being ovewhelmed.

Helseth also touched something which is a negative which is competitive players egos. There is already a ton of players in this game who believe they are better then they really are. This becomes a huge problem when they get stuck in a league simply cause there not good enough and have excuses. Not only did he touch this he only talked about the positive side of things which isnt realistic at all. He also talks about the carrot-goals- end game content for PvP which anet already destroyed. How many people quit the game the second we all became level 80 over night?

Seriously i want to ask you if you read what i wrote? I asked the question on the facts, what has anet done to give you the idea they can make this work? They killed level progression, unique titles and clothing for PvP players, the leader board, and still have unsuccessfully fixed bugs that give dagger necros a huge advantage.

What if people dont come into this game and dont stay? What if old players dont come back? What if the rewards are not to the peoples in this games liking? Seriously did you just missed everything i said. Helseth and I have different views on it but simply stated we agree. The population in this game is too small and i simply stated that anet would have to do alot right starting with fixing the stuff that needs fixed first. As it currently stands solo que still will not work for all the same reasons it didnt work before. Helseth literally said nothing and only has hope for this game since he loves it.

Side not he is funny and does alot of snapping

Agreed.

GW2 does not need solo queue. Its a casual game. You can queue solo regardless.

OP, you are correct but this was all said on these forums 2 years ago and 1 year ago when the big balance patches moved the game into spam and made the whole game a joke. This discussion has been done to death. The game will never be competitive because of the balance direction which took a strong initial game and turned it into a frustrating spam-fest

We need ingame tournaments – these were in game and removed
We need need solo queue – this was in game and removed
We need leaderboards showing skill – these were in game and removed
We need progression in the form of ranks – these were in game and removed (everyone made 80)
We need the ability to queue from anywhere – this was in game and removed (and it didnt stop any 4v5s because 95% of them are rage quits anyway)

We do NOT need more esports tournaments for the 5 teams that show up to compete. Honestly eu has about 4 teams. Hardly even worthy of being called a competition which undermines the whole event.
We do NOT need balance decisions being influenced by behind closed door discussions with players who have vested interests (debate should be open)

Honestly the amount of wasted effort at arenanet seems staggering. I would like to say that pvp has got WORSE not better over the last two years. Put simply, everything this game needed was in place. The map selection is really cool. Those things should of been additions.

I think this game’s PvP is an interesting case study. The game itself has been a huge success. Look at the sales figures. They are staggeringly large. And at launch the PvP needed work. It got the help it needed and we had a great game about 2 years ago. Since then almost every change made has negatively impacted the game. This has worked to actively destroy the PvP scene in this game. It is essentially completely dead now, with almost all players now just playing for their daily as a kind of daily chore.

Something has gone wrong somewhere. The decisions made to remove all the things above are astonishing. Literally those are things that almost any other game in history is working to put into their games. GW2 had these things and they made the decision to remove them and remove all the work put into them.

Think about these things logically and it really does show that this game’s PvP does have no hope. If things were bad but the direction of travel was good…sure….we could stick it out and wait. But things get worse and worse with every update made. The direction of travel is wrong, and the result is that the PvP in this game is not worth worrying about.

These changes are actually bad. Still a heal on a 30 second cool down with a 1.25 second cast which gives you a condition. This is their fix and it means necro is screwed in terms of heals for the foreseeable future.

You shouldnt want updates. Updates mean they remove features.

Remove maps
Remove leaderboards
Remove solo queue
Remove in-game tournaments

Remove remove remove.

Runewolf.8456:

Rickster.8752:

StickerHappy.8052:

Rym.1469:

I would like to see promised Profession Forum Specialists, though.

We really need those. And it’s not like there’s a lack of good candidates.

IMO, most forum people only post or type “good”, a lot of these forum warriors are baddies in game. I think their perception of balance is skewed.

Everyone’s perception of balance is skewed. Including very strong players who are often the most skewed as they have a vested interest in maintaining the powerful nature of their comp.

As for this list. I hope arenanet do realise this:

Thief has almost always been a mandatory pick because of their unrivaled mobility and the uncounterable stealth plays the class allows. This means that every competitive team is always going to be forced to have a thief and that the thieves performance can almost control the entire matchup of the game. As an example, if a thief severely outplays the other thief it’s going to have a much larger impact than any cele class outplaying each other and there isn’t much the team can do to stop this from happening.

I mean, I would +10000000 this if I could. This whole game of gw2 is decided by who has the best thief. Its like air superiority in warfare. If you have thief superiority then it is so easy to play every other class and feel like a pro.

Honestly 90% of games with organised teams is just who has the better thief because the profession is simply too strong to deal with without your own thief.

They need to add significant counterplay to thief. Or reduce its damage. And by counter play I mean like ways to interfere with their initiative regain

If you want to increase counter play to stealth thieves will need other defensive skills/traits to play with otherwise your just deleting the class from viable play.

ZZZZZZZZ

Who cares if they aren’t required in every team. They have had THREE years of being the best class. THREE WHOLE YEARS. NP finding a team as a thief for 3 years. Deciding most games for 3 years.

Time to give other classes a chance. They should make the significant nerfs needed to thief. Then if and when it becomes not viable then and only then should it receive buffs to compensate.

Morwath.9817:

Is that weird for you that they communicate with Tournament Players (e.g. Backpack) more than with ‘randoms’ crying about everything?

They have a vested interest in keeping their comps and professions strong. The reason thief/mesmer comp has been so strong for so long is probably because these players do not want thief nerfed because they have become expert at abusing how overpowered it is.

StickerHappy.8052:

Rym.1469:

I would like to see promised Profession Forum Specialists, though.

We really need those. And it’s not like there’s a lack of good candidates.

IMO, most forum people only post or type “good”, a lot of these forum warriors are baddies in game. I think their perception of balance is skewed.

Everyone’s perception of balance is skewed. Including very strong players who are often the most skewed as they have a vested interest in maintaining the powerful nature of their comp.

As for this list. I hope arenanet do realise this:

Thief has almost always been a mandatory pick because of their unrivaled mobility and the uncounterable stealth plays the class allows. This means that every competitive team is always going to be forced to have a thief and that the thieves performance can almost control the entire matchup of the game. As an example, if a thief severely outplays the other thief it’s going to have a much larger impact than any cele class outplaying each other and there isn’t much the team can do to stop this from happening.

I mean, I would +10000000 this if I could. This whole game of gw2 is decided by who has the best thief. Its like air superiority in warfare. If you have thief superiority then it is so easy to play every other class and feel like a pro.

Honestly 90% of games with organised teams is just who has the better thief because the profession is simply too strong to deal with without your own thief.

They need to add significant counterplay to thief. Or reduce its damage. And by counter play I mean like ways to interfere with their initiative regain

Rumour has it this nerf isn’t happening.

lol

I even misread this:

Master of Corruption: Reduces recharge of corruption skills by 33% but causes corruption skills to apply additional conditions to you when cast. (Condition applied varies per skill.)

I thought it was “apply conditions to foes”. I cant believe the need to put in this random downside. Its crazy. Really crazy.

Sagat.3285:

3 more years to go.

The issue that was in Curses GM is now in master.I was actually planning on taking MoC and CPC buy not anymore. I might stop playing condition necro or take a break to theorycraft(imo) I stopped already but I don’t see the team potential, no Parasitic Contagion healing in DS is a pass on that trait as usual. I would call “usual” miscommunication and again 3 more years to go.

I wish we had the curses traits from the last preview to be honest. They were much better

Bhawb.7408:

I think the self-vuln is fine if CC stays at 25s, but its not okay to have both that and the increased CD.

I agree. Also they could do this nerf and reduce its cast time to 1/2 s. That would be fine also….maybe. Its close. Losing this sustain was the last thing necro needed

Necro won.

This is why:

Terrifying Descent: When you take falling damage, inflict fear for 1 second on nearby foes. Reduces fall damage by 50%.

They are going to jump off cliffs and just fear everyone. Not only that – they will take half damage whilst doing it.

Nerf please.

Rym.1469:

Necromancer got best changes.

Like rezz that actually doesn’t rezz.
Or Rezz Signet which does some damage when rezzing now.

That’s huge, man.

That 3 second cast to not res someone when they have poison is going to be epic. We can cover the res with our massive amounts of stability then maybe res somebody (probably not). Then the great thing is. We do some random aoe damage (probably gets healed by 3 seconds of an ele passive). Going to be the new meta. Setting up the signet of undeath spike of doom.

Rym.1469:

Oh, btw. Since our beautiful rework to Curses, we will probably have to run Rabid Amulet/give up on at least one Geomancy sigil for Intelligence proc.

We will also probably lose both Path of Corruption which made Condimancer so unique and Terror in order to have any viable heal.

Nobody mentioned Parasitic Contagion working in Shroud. Surprise, surprise, it also got shafted.

Lingering Curse working just with Scepter means that Dhuumfire will now hardly keep 2 stacks of burning, assuming you hit every time. And persist as an amazing PvE trait.

Not even mentioning that Weakness trait. Let it drown in silence.

Oh, btw, Plague sending is a proc. Which means, it can proc on a Mesmer clone and go on full 30s cd.

We got wonderful self-conditions on Corruption skills, even more and even more dangerous. Thing we discussed just a while ago! However, it looks like someone forgot to up our reliable condition transfering.
Or did that person think we will get a Plague Signet, also nerfed, or Well of Power, to deal with condition pressure of other professions now? I believe there might be a problem with utility slots, since we have no space for new amazing options!

Our Life Force generation remains as it is, because we have even too much of it.

Feast of Corruption, awesome power skill stays on Scepter unchanged, with amazing synergy with Lingering Curse.

Mark of Blood PvE/PvP split was clearly a big problem, so in order not to make Necromancers absolutely dominant in dungeons, nerfed PvE version.
It also looks like Putrid Mark is already an amazing group utility, being the only semi-reliable Blast Finisher Necro has and obviously, doesn’t need that group cleanse.

Our siphons will give us an amazing defense against multiple opponents, while our ressurection traits will not actually ressurect, but rather force the enemy to cleave bodies 2 seconds longer, giving us mental upper hand.

Hey, let’s not forget about our new defenses against projectiles, blocks…. Actually, forget about them..

And all that to give allies 8 might for less than 10 seconds and 50 dps increase. Was worth it!

Great post. Yeh I misread the mark of blood change. I presumed it had been reset to its previous version! But it hadn’t! It just got nerfed in PvE too. Those dungeon speed runs with mark of blood were ruining the economy.

Breath taking incompetence.

Goldenrevolver.4371:

lordrosicky stop going into every single necro topic just to write that because of a 5sec cd increase on our heal our class is dead. if u think necro is the worst class since 3 years just leave. its people like u that are the reason why we dont have a wonderful necro community

5s increase in a heals cd is huge. A heal is basically sustain. Heals are incredibly important in gw2 because there are no healers. There is a reason the top pvp classes all have exceptional heals.

Yeh it makes no sense. Having said all this. I think we probably take plague sending with rabids. That trait is exceptionally strong if it works reliably (if it transfers blind is the key). Then take the well heal. Then take terror and weakening shroud. There is potential I guess. Dunno, hard to say. Either way they closed off so many options with their stupid clustering of all the good traits for a terrormancer in the master tier of curses. A complete fail would be understating the changes.

Rym.1469:

Don’t worry.

We have siphons.

Dem 120 life siphons every second gonna be epic at dealing with insta 15k backstab + procs! Cant wait.

Sagat.3285:

What’s the point? 3 more years to go.

3 more years of being terrible! Going to be fun. This time we will be even worse though! hehe. Thieves and warriors do deserve another 3 more years of being able to play the game in whatever way they want though. Necro was OP in beta. Better make sure its never OP again.

Was it really so OP to be able to take terror and path of corruption ? These are the mainstays of the condition specs. Was it really OP to make scepter 2 have its PvE bleeding levels in pvp? Was it really OP to let terror have its pve levels in pvp?

Why do you nerf the one heal in the game which has counter play and gets interrupted all the time in consume conditions? And then why do you put the trait which can undo this nerf into the same tier as both path or corruption and terror. You literally put the only 3 good traits for a condition necro in the same tier of the same trait line.

It is completely ridiculous. It would be like putting cleansing ire, vigorous shouts and fast hands as all master traits in the same trait line. It is totally ridiculous.

I knew necro would get bad changes, but I didn’t expect the changes to be so bad. You actually managed to make the traits even more conflicting and nonsensical than before. Which is quite the achievement.

P.S. One thing I will give you credit for. Thank for for not making mark of blood into its pre-dhuumfire version (nerfed for dhuumfire before you removed dhuumfire). It was a great idea to nerf mark of blood in PvE instead. It has been devastatingly OP in fractal runs recently.

You cant stop it. Anet kept buffing and buffing rampage and now it is totally broken with too short a cd. Soon it will become clear how OP it is.

glock.6590:

Thief is not not OP but its game breaking . Even if they nerf it more than they already did it will still be broken due to the core mechanics of the class. The only solution is to redesign the class or leave it that way.

You could literally nerf everything by 30% and it would still be broken . Because other classes can’t match an initiative system which allows to spam daze/blind , high stealth/ evade uptime depeding on the build and multiple instant gap closers.

And long stealth duration in conquest is just stupid. If a thief goes stealth near your close point, you basically either have to afk there or move and get decapped 3 seconds later. No matter what you do ,the thief wins by making you waste time or kill your teammates outnumbered while you sit there and wonder if you gonna get decapped or not.

Stealth duration need a nerf for sure. Getting 1 sec of stealth for a blast/leap sounds reasonable and 5 sec on shadow refuge would be great too.

Well said. Don’t forget how frustrating it is to get the better of a thief but he drops refuge before he dies and self resses. But yeh it leads to frustrating game play all round. Camping close till a thief reappears 10 seconds later is really lame. It isn’t fun. And it is not fair. Because by the time you get to middle the thief will of killed everyone there by +1ing.

Omocha.4931:

Rickster.8752:

Vulnerable to CC – this is the opposite. Thieves are very strong to cc and also very very strong against immobalise with withdraw and ports.

Assuming you get 1 cc every other fight, yes. The wide aoe cripple from rangers, coupled with pulls from guards, cripples and immob from necros and warriors… There’s a lot of cc’ing that the thief can’t handle all the time. Needless to add they are quite short on stability skills.

Rickster.8752:

Vulnerable to conditions – I presume you are unaware of the meta thief spec but it is essentially immune to conditions. It can even 1v1 a condition engineer with ease now. The stealth remvoes the conditions and they run 2 stealth utilities. In addition shadowstep is condition removal.

I’m totally unware of the meta. I do know that stealth removes 1 (one, not 10) conditions every 3 seconds and that mesmers and necros can put more than 3 in 1 second.
I’m also aware that Infiltrator’s skill on sword is a condi removal that eats up half the ini bar for 1 condition and that SS is removing conditions at the cost of stunbreaks and mobility. Your point is?!

Rickster.8752:

Not spammable damage – thieves core design with no cds means they can spam bursts at any time they want to.

No cds are well balanced by initiative. Thieves can “spam” any skill while their ini lasts. Which is roughly 4 HS’s or one stealth chain on S/P and 1 leap (which btw, is a rush, not a leap). Or 2 pistol whips, 4 Clusters… and that’s about it. Eles can spam 20 skills without caring much about cooldowns, and engineers can yolo grenades all the time. If not spammable, most skills on all classes have apropriate cooldowns. In general, it doesn’t feel like a gain, but more like a constraint.
Thieves can burst at any time they want if they don’t spam. They can’t spam. HS spammers aren’t being thought too much of, iirc.
I respect your opinion, but from my point of view (played almost all classes, to feel the difference), thieves are actually needing better both condition removal and damage. They’re however, not breaking the game and are not in a need of a nerf. If anything, the meta should consider their existence as possible and adjust to the cap/decaps and finishers (btw! staying put in a group fight so you can survive to finish of the running enemies is kinda depressing. Makes you feel like the cavalry that arrives at the end of the battle ^x^)
What DOES need nerfing is the proc chance of the sigils though. Fire, Air, etc.

1, Immobilize is literally worthless vs a thief. If we make withdraw a 20-25s cd then we can start to talk.
2, You basically won’t die to conditions on the meta spec. Not ever. The condition removal is so much. And any covering conditions for the damaging conditions are easily removed by…guess what…withdraw again! Which is always off cd because the cd is so so short.
3, Thief initative costs are balanced around the original iniative regen rate at release which has since been buffed considerably. This in effect worked to reduce all thief cds by 35%. Imagine this happened to another class. Imagine one day anet said "we are reducing all warrior weapon skills cd by 35%. It would be busted like thief is now! Take headshot as an example. It costs a mere 4 initiative for such a strong effect. That is regained in only 4 seconds. And you dont even have to wait that long if you dont want. You can spam it a few times. So its a very strong skill with (at most) a 4 second cooldown. That is totally ridiculous. They need to increase about 75-80% of thief weapon skills costs to rebalance them imo.

And a thief will have full initative in about 10 seconds even if they are out of it. Other classes you have to use a skill and then its gone for 40 seconds.

I do agree with sigils needing nerfs though. I respect yours and everyone elses opinion too. I just disagree strongly.

Jekkt.6045:

you can’t nerf chill of death without nerfing focus 5, otherwise chill of death would have to get a full overhaul or a mug treatment.

Just nerf both but make focus 5 have a much shorter cast time. That would be a buff in general for focus which is obviously terrible purely due to cast times which might have been close to ok at launch, but with power creep and powerful auto attacks are now worthless.

Should be ok after the patch. But I would also like to see sigil nerfs and maybe a 10% chill of death nerf

Saiyan.1704:

Rickster.8752:

Maris.3164:

From my personal point of view: I main a thief, I play pvp (and pve). I have never ever had any trouble against thieves on my thief or other professions (including a power necro). Yes, on occasion a good thief kills me on w/e profession I am playing at the time. Good for them, they outplayed me, just like any other good player with another class could have.

But most of the time thieves don’t even offer much of a challenge, not alone at least. OP why do you think that is? I’m not a super good player, average at best. I think it’s because I know what they can do so I can predict their moves to some degree. And ironically, my thief seems to be the most vulnerable against a thief.

Thief is meant to excell at 1v1, but cannot contribute much in a bigger fight, something the other professions can do. Mobility is the sole reason thieves are even in the meta still, they can turn 1v1 into 2v1 faster than any other profession (aside from a mesmer with portal). Take that away and you will see thieves in pvp no more. Stealth is not invulnerability and neither is mobility, you can still cc them and hit them through stealth.

Are you really saying thief is bad in big fights lol?

You couldn’t be more wrong. Refuge is still a way to get resses off. But more than this, if you ever played in a game without a thief there is so much a good player can do to stay alive. A good necro will be kiting like a boss. Line of sighting, porting out. And the same goes for any class. A shoutbow will get low and start to kite. ALL OF THIS is nullified by a single thief. All of it. Now all those low targets will get finished off. Without a thief those targets will be hard to finish off.

As such, thief is the best class is all engagements. Its initiative regen is simply too high. The balance is just way off. A nerf to celestial (which is needed) is going to make thief even more broken. They must receive significant nerfs to their core profession mechanics.

All of.. your two examples? By the time warrior is low on health the Thief would have left point because he can’t handle the AoE pressure in mid. The only thing you have as an argument is thief > mesmer > ranger IF that thief can get there. I’ve seen a thief get 1 shotted by a Lich. Let’s not pretend a Thief can hard counter a necro when the water’s boiling in mid. I’ve seen the complete opposite happen so many times.

A Thief is forced off point all too often. That reason alone is why few people dislike them. Again, if it wasn’t for their great +1 and backcap abilities they wouldn’t be utilized at all. Shadow Refuge is basically their only support option and is a hit or miss during downed states. But on a sync’d team, when it works, it works marvelously.

Those examples are literally every team fight with competent players. Good players dont just sit there and die when they are the focus target and are low on cds. They kite to stay alive and regen cool downs. This is nullified by thief. And that isnt a small issue. With good players that is everything. Otherwise most of the time all your dps will be wasted.

I am talking about only probably the top 100-200 players in the game I guess. Only those players have the skills needed to produce damage and kite at the same time. This skilled gameplay is shut down by thief because you cannot kite or disengage it.

Omocha.4931:

What I was trying to say there, Tyresias is that every class has its own strengths and weaknesses. Thieves have mobility and good – but not really spammable – damage, while being extremely vulnerable to cc’s and conditions and with a quite fragile body (in terms of hp).
You would need to address those issues, giving them a much better survival in exchange for lowering mobility. However in that scenario, all classes would have to have the skills and perks that make them special too. Throwing them all in a blender and just give them generic names with not that much difference in playstyle.

Rangers have a lot of tools at their disposal, but most people complain about them being able to camp outside the general range and spam from there quite high damage and annoying skills. It’s not all they do and it’s arguably not the best or most fun way to play ranger
Necros have double hp bars, basically, good condi removal, good damage, both in dots and power builds and a devastating elite skill.
We could go on like this forever, pointing out strengths in all classes and argue a lot of wether they’re balanced or not. Fact is they are NOT. 1v1 or solo play in general isn’t all that supported by GW2’s environment. From instance mechanics to class complementing in pvp, it’s pretty much all about team play and cooperation.

A well played mesmer can make short work of a thief through condition pressure and stealth (Stealth! on a class that has so many other options available! QxQ). A well played mesmer with a well played thief can make a very deadly couple though, hm?!

The moment Anet will say that they’re looking into giving all the classes equal odds in 1v1, then we can start debating about one class being OP. Until then, I think it’s more important to actually learn to play better in a team.

Also, Tyresias. People tend to complain more about the things that are out of their grasp. Were the other players be given the mobility and stealth too, they’ll be more than happy! Can you imagine a necro with them? or a guardian? Can you also imagine a thief with a guardian’s survivability? or with the mesmer’s clones? or being able to spam 20 skills like the ele?
Thieves are pests and are designed to be treated as such. Lot of annoyance, very small chance of dying of old age or natural causes ^x^

On a side note, I’ve seen the fixing for the condition builds that is gonna arrive with HoT. That’s arguably a death sentence for this particular class. But that doesn’t matter much, I guess. It’s not about how easy a thief can die, but how fast he/she can down you and steal your cap point. That spells hypocrisy for me

If they make what you say true then thief will be fine. Currently that is not the case.

Vulnerable to CC – this is the opposite. Thieves are very strong to cc and also very very strong against immobalise with withdraw and ports.
Vulnerable to conditions – I presume you are unaware of the meta thief spec but it is essentially immune to conditions. It can even 1v1 a condition engineer with ease now. The stealth remvoes the conditions and they run 2 stealth utilities. In addition shadowstep is condition removal.
Not spammable damage – thieves core design with no cds means they can spam bursts at any time they want to.

Omocha.4931:

I’d say he’s right! Thieves are OP! Lowest HP pool in the game and shabby condi removal, quite a hard choice between survivability and burst overall, no invulnerability, stability, summons or decent condi damage. No spammable skills due to initiative restrictions, but yes! OP! Remove the stealth and the half-broken shadowsteps, pl0x! And while at it, remove their weapons too! Give them a broom!

It’s on the same note with “Ranger OP! 1500 Rapid Shot happy wefs!” and “Necro OP! Remove Death Shroud and Lich Form pl0x!”. How about remove the attunements from eles too?! Make each weapon only give 1 att or 2. And give mesmers only 1 clone, remove the virtues and Elite Focus from guardians and maybe the stances from warriors. You might as well, take the grenades and elixirs away from engineers! Hell! Even better! Give every class a broom as the only weapon!

Edit: Nevermind the broom! Make the Carved Bone Spoon a weapon! And as skills Eat Cereals, and Head Smack, both spammable, 100 range for the attack skill. The “Eat Cereals” will heal for 500 hp, the “Head Smack” will damage for 500 hp. Fair and square!

Shabby condition removal? The current d/p thief rivals staff ele and shoutbow for the class which is most immune to conditions. So you have literally no idea

Maris.3164:

From my personal point of view: I main a thief, I play pvp (and pve). I have never ever had any trouble against thieves on my thief or other professions (including a power necro). Yes, on occasion a good thief kills me on w/e profession I am playing at the time. Good for them, they outplayed me, just like any other good player with another class could have.

But most of the time thieves don’t even offer much of a challenge, not alone at least. OP why do you think that is? I’m not a super good player, average at best. I think it’s because I know what they can do so I can predict their moves to some degree. And ironically, my thief seems to be the most vulnerable against a thief.

Thief is meant to excell at 1v1, but cannot contribute much in a bigger fight, something the other professions can do. Mobility is the sole reason thieves are even in the meta still, they can turn 1v1 into 2v1 faster than any other profession (aside from a mesmer with portal). Take that away and you will see thieves in pvp no more. Stealth is not invulnerability and neither is mobility, you can still cc them and hit them through stealth.

Are you really saying thief is bad in big fights lol?

You couldn’t be more wrong. Refuge is still a way to get resses off. But more than this, if you ever played in a game without a thief there is so much a good player can do to stay alive. A good necro will be kiting like a boss. Line of sighting, porting out. And the same goes for any class. A shoutbow will get low and start to kite. ALL OF THIS is nullified by a single thief. All of it. Now all those low targets will get finished off. Without a thief those targets will be hard to finish off.

As such, thief is the best class is all engagements. Its initiative regen is simply too high. The balance is just way off. A nerf to celestial (which is needed) is going to make thief even more broken. They must receive significant nerfs to their core profession mechanics.

Jekkt.6045:

you can maintain stacks if you go for a full might rotation which is most of the time less desireable than a rotation that counters what you’re facing (except the might rota is the counter) so you will have maybe 10 stacks at best or less if you don’t run battle sigil anymore.

what you seem to miss is that while it’s a mediocre benefit for celestial classes it’s a crazy boost for condition classes.

not only will ele war and engi be able to, more or less, stack might but so will revenants necros and rangers. you can actually stack might on all of the classes it’s just that the access to condis or self sustain are not that great to make celestial viable on them.

+- you can keep 10-15 might stacks uptime on all classes and i have tested this before. who knows, maybe celestial necro or ranger will be a thing after the patches, or maybe celestial won’t even be meta anymore.

all in all this thread is just another celestial whine. “nerf celestial” more, even before it gets nerfed and has already been nerfed once.

And that is in a 1v1. So in a 1v1 celestial will have more condi damage because they will sustain 10 stacks on average. In a 2v2 or 3v3 these celestial front liners (who heals each other and themselves to an absurd extent) will be giving each other a ton of might. 25 stacks almost constantly, I have seen it happen. And then their condi damage will be a joke.

Add in the extra traits suiting celestial more than anyone and I believe celestial needs a 20% nerf. Then it will be more in line with other amulets and the stat advantage less severe.

Many people play this game because its supposedly a level playing field with no gear advantage. That was thrown out of the window by celestial. 37% more is a joke. It is a huge figure, and ele, warrior and engi can use all these stats very well

Jekkt.6045:

idk where you pull your strange numbers from but eles and engis don’t stack might anymore..

as a d/d ele you have (now) 538 condi damage, -10% from celestial nerf, -100 from traitlines and +80 or so from the base stats increase which will result in around roughly 480 condi damage. they say the break even point is 700 condi damage, so to achieve that you would need 6 might stacks to only deal the same amount of condition damage you deal now. all the time before you reach 6 stacks you will actually deal less condition damage than now.

the loss of 30% boon duration will also cripple might stacking a lot so in fact celestial will deal less damage than it does now. maybe warrior will still deal the same amount because they generally stack more might but ele and engi certainly won’t.

Well 6 stacks is literally nothing. In a 1v1 an ele can easily sustain that…and more. Boon duration changes are good. But my guess is they do something dumb with that and buff all boon durations.

Regardless – even with a 10% nerf, celestial will still be 25% more stats than other amulets. That is unacceptable. It is worse than gear grinds in games like WoW. At the moment celestial players have a 37% advanatage on other players. Hence why the only way to counter them is to 1 shot them. Because any long term advantage is all theirs with their insane stat advantage. No wonder previously clueless players emerged at the “top level” purely due to celestial.

It needs more than a 10% nerf. Way more.

Sigmoid.7082:

Rickster.8752:

Sigmoid.7082:

Keep the might generation in check and they actually are much weaker than they are now. They also lose stats of trait lines so some of their stats will be much lower to boot. They will have less toughness, vitality, healing power and boon duration so the build will be more manageable and easier to keep in check.

Yeh but the might generation won’t be in check. Warrior can instantly stack 15 stacks of might on his own.

For one they will have lower stats and for second they will have less boon duration do the stacks won’t last as long. Further more boon removal is s thing and they count as a single stack. Maybe classes have access to lots of boon removal. Again not an issue. This change makes Condi’s on power builds weaker, Condi’s on cele build average at best if you let them stack up enough might and it improves them on condi builds since they were lacklustre.

How does it make condis on celestial worse? It massively buffs them. Celestial warrior/ele/engi has as much condi damage stats as a full condition necromancer because they just stack might over and over. Boon removal does not matter at all because they can so easily and quickly stack the might.

This change is a buff to celestial because they will do even more condi damage. I would imagine a celestial build averages around 1k condition damage

Sigmoid.7082:

Keep the might generation in check and they actually are much weaker than they are now. They also lose stats of trait lines so some of their stats will be much lower to boot. They will have less toughness, vitality, healing power and boon duration so the build will be more manageable and easier to keep in check.

Yeh but the might generation won’t be in check. Warrior can instantly stack 15 stacks of might on his own.

Condition won’t be scary imo. What is scary is the fact that celestial will be better than ever with these changes. Unless its nerfed 15%. These are for the two reasons I stated above.

Lord Kuru.3685:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I posted this in it’s own thread, but can we please wait to play the patch before passing judgment.

For a different game company this may be a good idea. Not for Anet. Fact is that the interval between balance patches is extremely long for this game.

If this turns out to be a bad change, it will be in the game for at least 6 months before it’s dealt with. So players simply can’t afford to “wait and see.” It’s too risky.

Then it will get nerfed by 8% after about a year with little effect haha

I agree with your recent blog post in general terms. The thought process makes sense. Those who spec into condition specs need to do more condition damage. Those who do not = need to do less.

The problem is this all falls apart with might. Warriors, elementalists and engineers can constantly keep up 25 stacks of might in 2v2s and even close to that in 1v1. So with celestial and might they will have 1200 condition damage. And be tanky. And have massive healing.

So I think these changes actually make these celestial specs stronger than they are currently. I do not believe a 10% nerf to celestial is even close to sufficient to cancel out two things:
1, Their condition damage will be even higher
2, They will have more traits

More traits = they can make use of their stats better. Imagine now they can take an extra regen trait to improve their usage of the healing stat. More traits means its easier to be strong in all areas. Which is a buff to celestial.

I think your changes have ignored might. Might will mean celestial specs easily clear the hurdle of 700 condition damage, and that they continue to terrorize gw2 pvp.

Please reconsider these changes, or please make sure the celestial nerf is significant enough to have an effect – 15-20% minimum.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Hi people, Henry back again,

There are no condi specs currently because you ignore this amulet. Please add it.

I did some research and found almost all players in gw2 were in favour of this amulet being added.

Thanks in advance,

Henry

Great post as always Henry. You are a legend. I agree with you. They need to add dire stats. Keep up the good work mate.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I still do not see why we should be revealed on block/evade/blind, I think the writing alone in white saying “blocked/evaded/blinded” is more then enough because the text is where the thief is so surely you should be able to react to that – and backstab has close to a second after cast, it’s tactical strike that has a very short after cast time and is probably just as dangerous. Many times in duals vs thieves I predicted a dodge while they are in stealth and got the “evade” only for to turn around and CnD right back at him/her because the text told me where they were.

The ONLY thing that might be worth (nerfing) is probably tactical strikes cast time, you spam that 2 times per second so vs ages it’s going to land far easier then bs will do.

What about headshot cast time? Shouldn’t a ranged interrupt that is spammable have a cast time associated with it to make sure thieves use their brains when using it.

Chaith.8256:

Eurantien.4632:

I would rather risk missing my queue pop because of a cinematic or long loading screen and have to queue for another 8 minutes than to just sit around in the Mists doing nothing but waiting for that queue to pop. That is because waiting for 8 minutes doing nothing is worse than doing something for 16 minutes. Just warn new players with this message (or something similar) upon queuing:

“Queuing for sPvP will place you into a queue system. Once you have a spot ready to compete you will be forced into the arena upon acceptance of the queue or you will have to queue again. When the match is over you will be returned but any progress made in an instance will be reset.”

[ ]: Check the box to NEVER SEE THIS MESSAGE AGAIN.

This last part is key. It would drive me nuts If I had to queue and “X” out of this message EVERY TIME that I queued.

The point of forcing people to stay in the mists from Anet’s design perspective is that if people are doing PvE events and actual activities, that will give people the motive to reject the queue. There was no rejecting the queue before, which was overall an improvement to reduce AFK people getting forced in.

Don’t shoot the messenger, I don’t fully support Arenanet’s philosophy on staying in the mists..

I would think the system can simply pull a replacement for people who do reject the queue, or are AFK, like it currently does, but who knows?

All the reasons can be resolved with a robust dishonor system.

Please kitten let us queue whilst we are in hotjoin at least then we can duel.

Firebird.8324:

Rickster.8752:

Firebird.8324:

Rickster.8752:

Firebird.8324:

Gryph.8237:

Firebird have I seen you compete in any tournaments or prove your work with all the world to see? I’m sorry I don’t know who you are nor have I seen any of the many videos you have undoubtedly uploaded for critique by the masses. You must be amazing to have single handedly solved necro shortcomings with the use of warhorn for increased mobility and damage. Wow. Perhaps you can now address our terrible defensive mechs. Please, grace us with you wisdom oh might leader.

http://toolbox1.tedc.de/go4/go4guildwars2_na/ see that second team down? Radioactive, I main power necro on that. (I’ve done a few tournies in my time, ALL on power necro)

Also, for terrible defensive mechanics, FIRST, hit spectral armor, THEN hit deathshroud (combo with locust swarm for extra effect)

ALSO, the downstate damage is a buff and there will be massive changes with the upcoming HOT, necro is not in a dire state, but even if it were Anet has there hands full with HOT and our problems would likely be fixed at the release of HOT

I checked your record as an individual player to see how good you are.

You had a 53% win rate in solo queue (lol) and had a final rank of 491.

Time to quiet down a bit I think before you embarrass yourself further.

Just the facts sir.

P.S. that is on NA which has a much more shallow player base than EU.

LOLOL don’t ever quote the current leaderboard, ever. My team is one of the top in NA and I even got to top 10 when the leaderboard was quality over quantity, I’ve participated in GO4 cups, mistpedias, tournament of legends, etc. You sir are a joke. If you think im embarrassing myself u have it all wrong.

Also, my win rate is 73% so I have no idea what you’re talking about (and honestly I think 73% is bad, I’ve been kittening around a lot)

I was quoting the old leaderboard in solo queue which is how to judge individual skill. You win rate was 53% and you were ranked 491. Pretty sure if you were as good as you say you are then you would of won more than 53% of your games and would of actually be rated highly.

If you want to prove yourself in a team as a team player then fine. But I don’t think you have done that either. Your team gets trashed by even teams in NA which are not close to the level of the EU top teams and of NA’s 1/2 good teams.

When they offer $50,000 dollar tournaments for solo queue, I will play solo queue, if you want necromancer to be buffed so badly because you’re a terrible necromancer and get rekted by everyone I laugh. If you think I have bad individual skill come duel me, contact me in game, and we can use my server. Also, there are no higher level teams that use power necro except for mine (perhaps abjured if nos continues with power necro).

Just wanted to add in here too, turret engies (and bake in the day, spirit rangers) are the best at solo queue because they can hold a point and carry hardest, does this mean that turret engies are great players? lol ur argument is so funny!

Lastly, if our team is getting rekt so badly, how are we second in go4 points? http://toolbox1.tedc.de/go4/go4guildwars2_na/

I am not interested in your duelling ability but your total ability as a player. If you were good you would of carried in solo queue. And I said you can prove yourself in team play too. Both are valid. Completely valid. But you don’t prove yourself there either. You never get close to ever winning anything. Turning up each week is admirable though.

I respect your opinion and its valid and fine. but dont come in here and pretend to some uber pro when the facts speak otherwise. it just makes you look lame.

Firebird.8324:

Rickster.8752:

Firebird.8324:

Gryph.8237:

Firebird have I seen you compete in any tournaments or prove your work with all the world to see? I’m sorry I don’t know who you are nor have I seen any of the many videos you have undoubtedly uploaded for critique by the masses. You must be amazing to have single handedly solved necro shortcomings with the use of warhorn for increased mobility and damage. Wow. Perhaps you can now address our terrible defensive mechs. Please, grace us with you wisdom oh might leader.

http://toolbox1.tedc.de/go4/go4guildwars2_na/ see that second team down? Radioactive, I main power necro on that. (I’ve done a few tournies in my time, ALL on power necro)

Also, for terrible defensive mechanics, FIRST, hit spectral armor, THEN hit deathshroud (combo with locust swarm for extra effect)

ALSO, the downstate damage is a buff and there will be massive changes with the upcoming HOT, necro is not in a dire state, but even if it were Anet has there hands full with HOT and our problems would likely be fixed at the release of HOT

I checked your record as an individual player to see how good you are.

You had a 53% win rate in solo queue (lol) and had a final rank of 491.

Time to quiet down a bit I think before you embarrass yourself further.

Just the facts sir.

P.S. that is on NA which has a much more shallow player base than EU.

LOLOL don’t ever quote the current leaderboard, ever. My team is one of the top in NA and I even got to top 10 when the leaderboard was quality over quantity, I’ve participated in GO4 cups, mistpedias, tournament of legends, etc. You sir are a joke. If you think im embarrassing myself u have it all wrong.

Also, my win rate is 73% so I have no idea what you’re talking about (and honestly I think 73% is bad, I’ve been kittening around a lot)

I was quoting the old leaderboard in solo queue which is how to judge individual skill. You win rate was 53% and you were ranked 491. Pretty sure if you were as good as you say you are then you would of won more than 53% of your games and would of actually be rated highly.

If you want to prove yourself in a team as a team player then fine. But I don’t think you have done that either. Your team gets trashed by even teams in NA which are not close to the level of the EU top teams and of NA’s 1/2 good teams.

So you have proved nothing. You haven’t proved your individual skill in solo queue. And you haven’t proved yourself as some sort of elite team player. Those are the two avenues in ALL games as to how you prove yourself…..either solo (for the solo inclined player) or part of a settled team (as for the team inclined player).

Which is fine. But dont come in here like some dude who can talk down to everyone as if you are some sort of pro. Everyone deserves their say. It is laughable you talk down to people when you have proven nothing ever. Get a grip of yourself dude.

Firebird.8324:

Gryph.8237:

Firebird have I seen you compete in any tournaments or prove your work with all the world to see? I’m sorry I don’t know who you are nor have I seen any of the many videos you have undoubtedly uploaded for critique by the masses. You must be amazing to have single handedly solved necro shortcomings with the use of warhorn for increased mobility and damage. Wow. Perhaps you can now address our terrible defensive mechs. Please, grace us with you wisdom oh might leader.

http://toolbox1.tedc.de/go4/go4guildwars2_na/ see that second team down? Radioactive, I main power necro on that. (I’ve done a few tournies in my time, ALL on power necro)

Also, for terrible defensive mechanics, FIRST, hit spectral armor, THEN hit deathshroud (combo with locust swarm for extra effect)

ALSO, the downstate damage is a buff and there will be massive changes with the upcoming HOT, necro is not in a dire state, but even if it were Anet has there hands full with HOT and our problems would likely be fixed at the release of HOT

I checked your record as an individual player to see how good you are.

You had a 53% win rate in solo queue (lol) and had a final rank of 491.

Time to quiet down a bit I think before you embarrass yourself further.

Just the facts sir.

P.S. that is on NA which has a much more shallow player base than EU.

Aereniel.7356:

Flumek.9043:

Idk saiyan, nos has been on top for more than half a year and i have yet to see another team saying “we want a necro”

That’s because most necros are beyond terrible. EU has maybe two good ones, neither of whom are as good as Nos. Necro only works once the player is at a certain skill level, and very few currently are. And I don’t mean mechanically, because mechanically necro is very simple. It’s the overall game awareness that sets Nos apart, in my opinion.

On topic – Based on recent form, the Abjured will take it and not by a small margin. The only upset I can sort of see happening is if one of the other teams brings the cheese and goes for direct counter comping. But even so it’s going to mean people playing classes they are not so experienced with, which tilts the advantage back to the Abjured.

Overall and as an (obviously) biased EU player, I’d say the EU scene is broader than NA’s, but NA’s top team is currently stronger than what ORNG can throw at them. China is not on the same level yet, but if (and it’s a big if) the Chinese scene continues to grow, they are going to spank everybody in 12 months.

Necros are terrible in the EU and there are maybe one or two good ones?

That is such a stupid comment. I know of many good necros like every other class. The problem for necro has always been that on EU there are a lot of hard counters such as many shout warriors and dps guardians currently.

Also Necro is a snowball class, you can’t call all EU necros bad compared to a few NA ones when those NA ones are in 500-0 games all the time. Trust me, if you give any necro a team which is dominant they will appear to be amazing because of the snowball nature of necro. Life force is the factor here. You try playing necro in a pug/solo queue or in a team NOT BASED AROUND A NECRO and then try and keep life force up vs the constant farming from a thief/warrior/guardian.

Also if you play necro without an elite thief on your team then NO POSITIONING MATTERS. Seriously you do realise 90% of the time a good necro dies it will be on “their side” but it is easy to cc the necro and really hard to peel vs some classes and those classes which foucs necro like dps guard/thief can just extend to kill the necro. Really…it is just ignorant statements.

Trust me, I know a ton of really elite necros on EU, both in wvw, in pve and in pvp. Just like there are good players on every class including the other weak class the ranger and the mesmer which is also the next worse next to ranger/necro.

I just find it funny that if I complain about necro people tell me to l2p because some NA dude does it and they win. Well guess what, if most eu necros were playing against the weaker teams in NA the eu necros wud trash them too. IF they were in the best team. Such is the mechanics surrounding a necromancer. Its like people want to get all ego about necros sucking on eu and about how they are all pro. If you guys think you are pro then prove it. Don’t give it the big man about necro sucking and stuff. I was pretty much rank 1 as an active player on solo queue on multiple accounts from when solo queue came out till like 3/4 months later. ACTIVE. I know this game. I know when necro is good and when it isn’t. And currently it sucks. Sure I might not be the best anymore (I suck tbh, everyone should farm me) but I still know when necro is in a good place and when it is underpowered. Currently it is more underpowered than ever. It is just hard countered. And if you want to tell me I suck and need to l2p and that player x does it so why cant I. THen I say to you please prove your play. Get to be consistantly the most winning SOLO player in the game for a consistant period of time and then get back to me (and prove it with facts not just BS thinking you are the best – everyone thinks they are the best).

So yeh, necro sucks. Please dont insult my intelligence telling me that all us eu necros need to l2p. It is totally stupid thing to say.

I think people read too much into the tournament results with respect to “na vs eu vs china”.

If the na team is 5 of the best 6/7 players in NA of course they should win.

The EU team are all really good but their strengths are more multi classing. It would be hard to say their individual players are in some top bracket. There are better players on other teams and better players on no teams. The hardest fights I have had are often vs solo queuers (who just dont want to bother with teams) and no names. As well as top players from teams. In short the eu scene is very broad, although less broad now since they got rid of solo queue.

Once you got to play a fair bit of solo queue you kind of realised who were the ones capable of carrying once your strip away all the ego BS and just looked at the facts. Sizer was number 1 on the list of people who are amazing and can carry super hard. I think if eu team cant win WITH sizer then having a similar team without him will not let them win.

I will now divulge the secret behind how to win every gw2 pvp game (within reason):

Get the best thief.

Very little else matters. If you get the thief who doesnt rando die and is able to 1v1 their thief then he can +1 everywhere else the whole map. He will put the other team’s thief on the defensive and he will just make the other team burn through their cds to survive and the other 4 players in the team can just pick up easy wins.

No other class can do this. And yet no other class is kinda semi-bad if its an average player on it.

Whoever else you are, what you can do is limited. If their thief always has the upper hand vs your thief/zerker then you are going to get wrecked. If your thief is always on top you will feel like a god roaming around killing stuff.

That is the secret. gg all.

How is ele and warrior hard to play at lower levels and yet necro and ranger are OP there? Makes no sense.

240 posts = alot of people have fallen for this blatent bait thread. No way OP believes it and if they did they still wouldnt post it here unless they literally wanted to troll people.

MrKrataus.6420:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

PvP Forum Specialist here

Few questions about this build:

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

1. Is the problem banner? – Let’s say the build didn’t have War Banner. Would you still think this build is too strong?
2. Is the problem killing it? – I tend to find that these die fairly quickly in team fights, but super slow in small engagements.
3. What do you usually fight it with? – What are your tactics for fighting it, if at all

1) Shoutwar got no stab, so ye easly interuptable
2) kinda y, vulnerable to heavy cc like slick shoes and high power burst.
3) focus him with a powerburst like thief mesmer, he’s gonna die asap if well coordinated.

I mean D/D ele’s doing better at everything exept that war got that long cd and easly interuptable banner, clearly shoutwar is the most balanced spec atm, its just old warriors player who stick with this spec when there’s ingi celestial and ele DD at a better spot.

You say its not op because “focus it with thief mesmer”. Then nothing is OP. You could double all damage and healing on d/d ele and it wouldnt be OP.

EVERYTHING insta dies vs thief/mesmer. Right from bunker guardian down. Literally everything.

Maybe that is a problem in itself with the high burst of thief amd fire/air sigils though.