Guild Wars 2

TangZJ.3824:

The price of silver has tripled overnight. Seems like there’s a sort of extreme speculation over the release of the preview of future patches.

Was there a preview other than that video for the Origin of Madness? As that video seemed to provide basically zero useful market information.

headraver.4862:

why is it everything i craft with mats from trading post and then sell it on the trading post its always at a loss what a stupid game mechanic you should make a profit not a bloody loss

You’re attempting to do things that other people can easily do, and that others do in order to gain a non-monetary benefit.

If you want to make money you either need to find a craft that is restricted (limited drop recipe: aka none), speculate (and catch an uptick), or give up a secondary currency (skill point conversions).

It’s a global market, people are going to compete until there’s no profit left.

The trading post and guild banker should be right next to each other so that both can be open at the same time.

Also you should be zoned in right next to the trading post/bank/guild bankers. These are the NPCs you’ll be using 98% of the time, walking up the staircase past is needless busywork.

Vol.7601:

Arnon.1563:

Probably gonna take 500 pieces to make cloaks or something for ascended back items.

There are so many potential uses for leather that Anet can do to make some market adjustments.

Cloaks is definitely one of them, even though there are issues for clipping/various character sizes

Colin hinted that the next legendaries would be backpieces, and they could include cured leather as a key component.

They could also introduce a temporary market adjustment item, just like the Mystic Forge Conduit was a few months after release.

For example, they could include a cheaper 18-slot bag which combines various tiered leather.

T5 leather is a great investment only if you have the space. If you have an extra account, the TP acts as unlimited storage and is the only feasible way to stockpile on mats. Cured Leather is the better alternative is space is limited, though I’m very cautious about it because I don’t want to get burned on Gossamer like last time.

I was a big proponent on Gossamer investing back when it was 1-2 S but I failed to sell quickly. Ended up dumping at 3-4S, which overall was a loss.

Well yes they could do this. But you’re not really talking from an unbiased perspective here.

Other than making Vol money, why should they do this?

Guardian.5142:

In essence, a game that actually COULD be a casual gamer’s paradise is damaged by the “casual lifers” who acquire vast wealth and then generally complain about the lack of progression (and things to spend their wealth on)…

You’ve invented a boogieman to dump all the games problems on. The issue is that such a person cannot logically exist.

You think the OP is the noble everyman? Striving to make-do in an unbalanced world? Only to, one day, achieve his goal and then continue to give back to orphans and puppies?

No, the OP is a vagabond who wants the things he wants now, because he ‘deserves’ them. These villains who you want to hurt with modified mechanics are actually just other players who play the game and then want to sell things they don’t personally want.

The villains shout to the world, “How much will you give me” and the world shouts back a million figures. They who want it most shouts the highest and they’re the one who gets it.

Sometimes the people who shout don’t want it themselves, they know that others who aren’t there to shout will want the item far more than any person currently there. So I guess these are the true villains in your fantasy.

But if they didn’t exist future consumers couldn’t get the item or would need to pay far more, and the person who got the drop would get far less for their item. You’ve created two victims all to stop one person getting a hypothetical profit- and for who? The dolt who wanted it for himself but not as much as the future person? Why is he deserving special attention? He isn’t willing to pay as much.

So why not increase the droprate? Then you’ve hurt anyone who gets the item as it’s now worth less.

Every decision that impacts prices has a winner and a loser. The potential winners are here every day, crowing that things aren’t ‘fair’ and that an evil cabal are trying to make things horrible for everyone, but the losers would be any lucky-gun who wins a RNG roll and gets a fancy item. They deserve to be able to sell that item, and they deserve a fair price for it- a price representing it’s true value to the player who wants it most.

The whiners don’t truly want the item, if they did they’d pay the most. They want things cheaper so they can get the shiny and then complain about progression (the very thing you heap on the imaginary boogieman). They’re the actual villains you’re talking about. The guy with 10,000g and the guy willing to sell a lucky precursor, they’re the ones actually playing the game without expectation of handouts.

/end Ayn Rand mode

Somethin Green.3482:

I trusted you to keep 3 promises*. Now I’m burned out, tired, with a bunch of gold I have no will to spend on anything at this point, just laying there reminding me of the time I’ve wasted.

Instead of blaming ANet it might be an idea to look at how you managed to waste the endless streams of gold that falls on people while playing.

Guardian.5142:

Then, one night, after reading many folks having amazing luck with the TP, I decided to try mine. I dumped more than half my wealth into the TP, resulting in merely “The Bard”, which I sold and added the proceeds towards more TP fodder. I ended the night at about 150G with nothing to show for it.

Clarify. You got profit from flipping a precursor and then suddenly you’re down 300g?

Did your precursor market crash? Because if you still have an resalable asset that doesn’t count as an expense.

Guardian.5142:

Since then, I haven’t broken 200G and currently sit at about 4G, but again, I know why… I decided the legendaries are just not worth it at this point and went a different direction.

Do you hold the same attitude as the OP? That somehow you spending money is the games fault and a reason precursors should be cheaper? Is all the money gone or is it sitting on the trading post?

Lengradde.2967:

Well, I just decided to put 25,000 orders on wind catcher skins to see if it even affects anything. My guess is it won’t, and I’ll be able to let my thread die.

I wasn’t wrong, it was a plain and simple attempt at market manipulation. But the main point is that it was an attempt and didn’t affect prices.

Hold up, you’re making assumptions.

The guy likely just put in orders for a few stacks of the things hoping to pick up a proportion from a downward panic. That never eventuated and they found somewhere else to put their money.

Assuming the guy’s an idiot and thought just having demand on a spidy chart would effect the price just has no basis from the facts presented.

The increased demand doesn’t actually mean anything.

Demand manipulation only has an effect when someone puts in enough orders at vendor price to push the item in to the top 10 demanded in order to get exposure.

This usually isn’t worth it though as seen with Slice of Candied Dragon Candy. It’ll take several hours for the guy to cancel all those buy orders eventually and the price has barely moved.

Silk creation comes from-

Bags: Slightly lower, holidays means more and less people from different catagories, no new patch means for fewer people.

Salvaging: Large supply of light armor, but also lower due to population Most dropped items are in the 78-80 range due to level scaling, all other items have a far lower and even distribution due to alts. Silk is salvaged from these items.

Speculation-

A couple of million silk is sitting in the queues or alts of 10-20 whales. This will need to be offloaded.

Demand-

Demand is currently exceeding supply by 10-15 thousand per day. This is high enough to raise prices but not enough to completely consume the speculative stocks.

Silk isn’t used in getting from 400-500 but, compared to weapons, the craft skill is a much smaller component of total cost. The failure of mass adaption is therefore the cost of the armors themselves, of which silk is a large component.

The acceptable price point for a persons first set of asc gear will be far higher than their secondary set. As such people are likely to wait for prices to drop to craft another set, as silk is a major component this will be the major influence on this decision. This will have an upward pressure on any downward trend.

Likely future: Spec stocks will be dumped eventually, this may happen near the end of January if people wish to move in to holiday speculation when prices reach their bottom. Due to the poor value to storage ratio this is likely to happen suddenly unless whales have taken on a listing risk and put their stocks in at higher than market prices already.

Demand will rise and supply will increase significantly once a new patch comes out.

Price drops will bring new entrants in to the market, especially first set ascended players who’ve built up some capital, but also additional setters encouraged by cheaper prices.

Price rises will depressed by flippers as always.

Comparative prices show that ignoring supply and demand leads to a price far higher than current as linen is 6 times as expensive but only 1/4 as much is required, and cotton is 3 times as expensive but only 1/8 is needed. S&D however is not reasonable to ignore for this market.

Missed 4 APs yesterday.

In order to make up those 4 APs I’d need to do several hundred hours of WvW. Having the system setup with such ridiculous time gating devalues everything other than dailies.

It’s simply not worth it to participate unless you’re doing everything everyday, and doing so is soulcrushing.

Rising Ashes: 2

The join button isn’t a ready button, it automatically joins you after 2 minutes.

The ‘other’ ready button isn’t a ready button, it automatically starts the game 10 seconds after the join button automatically joins you (sometimes less depending on loading times).

Neither of these require user input, which is the only thing that would prevent 4v5s.

Every other multiplayer game that requires balanced teams has a ready button, yet GW2 does not.

Every competitive pvp game has a ready button for an obvious reason, when there is a queue people do other things.

Yet GW2 still has nothing and instead chooses to punish people who don’t sit in a lobby doing nothing for up to 10 minutes.

A ready button would prevent 4v5s, yet still nothing.

Might I suggest that they also be allowed to be salvaged in to luck?

I’m not a fan of the mystic forge, and this would make sigils/runes not a waste of inventory space for me.

Achievement hunters are sick of time gated content. Add really really hard permanent achievements, let people get them at their own pace.

You don’t even need to effect people who just want choices between dailies, just cap the maximum points to 4 and add as many stupid catagories as you want.

Just add a ready button before a match is spawned. Then increase dishonor to 2 weeks.

But without such a basic feature as a ready button no dishonor should be in place.

Missed 1 AP today. Equivalent of 10 Tournament wins on a warrior.

Example:

Someone wins the previous round of Krait Slayer with 5493 kills held for 24 hours.

All kills reset.

Player A gets 241 kills, and no one gets more than him for 12 hours.

Players B gets 241 kills and continues up to 392 kills, and no one gets more than him for 2 hours.

Players C gets 392 kills and continues up to 612 kills, and no one gets more than him for 23 hours.

Player A gets 371 kills, bringing his total up to 612 with his previous kills, and continues up to 613 kills. 24 hours from that point no one has gotten more than 612 kills and so Player A wins that round.

His Krait Slayer achievement is given a different background. No other reward is given.

This feature is essentially for a completionist subset of players. It would be optional as it doesn’t effect other areas of the game. But for those that care about achievement hunting it would offer a competitive endgame for that type of playstyle.

It would create a large goldsink, and item sink also as many achievements exist that burn through money and items.

Slightly modified titles for achievements with titles associated, and one-time small AP rewards could also be possible.

Due to the rolling reset, some catagories could never have a winner, so the more common catagories would be automatically prestigious without having to devote any additional development time like they do with new weapons/armors.

Missed another 2 APs today. Equivalent to 200,000 Dolyaks.

A big change for achievement progression

Allow ‘golding’ all individual achievements (pick a better name). Golding would be to get more in that category of achievement than any other player, since the last time the achievement had been golded, and hold the top spot for 24 hours.

Ex: Someone golded their Krait Killer achievement, all counters reset. I kill 400 Krait, this is more than anyone else. I hold it for 12 hours, but someone else kills 400 Krait, and continues up to 650 Krait. The timer is reset. I kill 251 more Krait, the timer is reset again, and I have to wait another 24 hours. Since no one gets up to 651 Krait in that time my achievement is golded, the background is permanently changed, and I’m awarded 5 APs.

This small feature would change the whole picture for AP competition. Now every category can be competed in, and AP hunters can really theorycraft about how to get gold achievements. Since it is a competition the satisfaction will be far higher. And because it has no real rewards except for AP hunters, normal players need never worry about it.

The resetting timer means some categories may rarely gold, and getting such will be a real prestigious achievement.

Watching people compete to gold their legendary weapon achievement would be a real joy to me.

Achievements: Currently shallow

*Most achievement categories serve as counters instead of achievements
*Over 50% of achievement are now from dailies or time gated content
*Most counters end well before the 2 month mark, even the highest counters will be capped after a year of casual play
*Many playstyles have zero achievements (no crafting discovery achievements, no mob hunter achievements, no trading post achievements)

Essentially the problem is that achievements as they stand are mindless and don’t encourage either a broad or a focused playstyle.

Achievements could lead people to new playstyles in dungeons if spec-specific achievements were added.

They could encourage a Custom Brawl revival if achievements were added for highest rank (instead of cumulative rank).

They could encourage exploration more if more mob catagories were added to the slayers.

Also since dailies are so disproportionately rewarded, and time gated, most AP hunters quickly realise that the best stratagy is to knock out the dailies and log off. The soft cap for achievements is simply too low for permanent achievements. And missing one day is the equivalent of killing 500,000 dolyaks.

What can be changed

Add more permanent achievements, a lot more. There should be 30 more for every patch. If this is silly then say so, but counter achievements don’t seem that problematic from a developer-time-to-benefit perspective.

Add uncompleted dailies to the permanent category, no longer rewarding chests but able to be completed for APs. Don’t punish people for taking a break, and stop restricting new players from having a chance at the leaderboards.

@Clark Skinner.4902

The difference between income generating activities and trading is that trading doesn’t create wealth.

The reason for limits on income generation is to lower inflation. Limiting trading only really hurts people who are trying to either buy items or sell items.

There are two agreeing parties on each end of a successful trade, and each benefits from the trade. Restricting entry in to the markets reduces competition and ultimately leads to people having to wait more and receive less for sales, and wait longer and pay more for buys.

Limiting trade profit is nonsense as no one is forcing people to sell or buy at the prices offered by traders. If they’ll ‘obviously’ make a profit later on then sellers clearly value their time more than the obvious profit, you’re effectively trying to take away that choice and instead they’ll be forced to hold on to items they do not wish to hold on to (or instead sell them for much lower to you).

Just got stuck with a 14 hour dishonor, and my team got disadvantaged by 100 or so points because this simple features isn’t in a year after launch.

Every other multiplayer game out there understands that if you have a queue you also need to check that everyone is at the keyboard before beginning a match.

Throw afk players to the back of the queue, don’t zone them in and destroy everyone’s game because of it.

Behellagh.1468:

Love it that quartz tanked.

(Sadface)

I’d just listed the rest of my quartz at 3.50ish yesterday to clear some inventory.

Glad I’d offloaded a tonne of it on the way up, but still hurts.

Ewon, I’d suggest instead to make the solution that daily achievements are converted in to permanent achievements at the end of the day.

This would reward doing dailies on the day (with the chest), but would allow new players or those on a break to work towards getting the missing APs.

This seems a good compromise between all groups, doesn’t effect 5 pointers, gives the ability for boardclimbers to make up points and compete, and allows top-ranks to play how they want provided they eventually binge on non-preferred formats to get the missing points.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

It was an opening of the new pavilion, and some blabla about Kryta overcoming great obstacles. I really don’t think there was any intent to announce something important during the speech.

So your assumption is that the speech was completely meaningless, and simply an excuse to allow Scarlet to appear and try to kill Jenna for no reason.

I’m saying that such a thing is horrible writing, and I’m offering an alternate explanation. If the speech was actually meaningful, what was the Queen actually going to say?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I don’t think Scarlet considers that as her homeland.

Then rephrase my statement as: If the goal is to kill the dragons, the first she would logically want to kill is Mordremoth- the plant dragon which is most likely able to corrupt Sylvari despite their current immunity to the known dragons.

Since the homeland thing is completely irrelevant to the actual point of what I was saying.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I don’t think Jennah is that concerned about Ebonhawk. It’s outside her rule, and she simply supports it with supplies.

Then which dragon would she be most concerned about? Because the one on the doorstep of her closest ally:the only other human city on the continent, seems like the best bet to me.

Kral is also a threat to the Black Citadel which Jenna has been trying to strengthen her non-aggression pact with. Allying against a common enemy would go a long way to cementing relations.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

But would she pull all her forces away from Kryta to go after Kralkatorrik? Not likely.

Why not? She’s just defeated the centaurs according to the timeline, the number one threat since the beginning of the personal story. No other organised force exists as a threat to Divinity’s Reach.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

And good luck getting the Black Citadel and Ebonhawk to work together.

Getting a common enemy would specifically facilitate this, and once completed would be a great way to stop the tension between these two parties.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I wouldn’t be too sure of that. Most likely the Charr would have Kralkatorrik on their agenda, but the Norn have Jormag to worry about. The humans are mostly busy mopping up the remains of Zhaitan’s army, and have Scarlet to deal with.

The Pact would be accompanying the human army, not the races individually. And a racial leader declaring war on a dragon would likely cause the Pact to join in, otherwise the risk would be the human’s would fail making future efforts weaker.

You can assume that there was no point to the speech, and no point to Scarlet attacking. But that really is just believing that the story is poorly constructed, and extremely shallow.

If not a campaign against a dragon what would the Queen’s speech have been about if Scarlet didn’t interrupt it? And if Scarlet didn’t want to interrupt the speech why was she there?

TLDR:: Jenna likely wanted Kralkatoric dead. Scarlet likely wants Mordremoth dead first. Attacking Jenna prevented the campaign.

Why did Scarlet attack the pavilion?

I think an important part of understanding Scarlet is to ask the question: What was the Queen’s speech actually going to be?

Right now Scarlet attacking the pavilion seems jarring and unnecessary. It’s a large part of why people think Scarlet as a character is adapted to what the developers want to do rather than acting logically.

But this need not be the case, as there is potentially a good reason that Scarlet did attack the pavilion.

What has Scarlet done: *

Molten Alliance- To mine chaos crystals, and to supply a metal equivalent to Iron Legion steel.

Aetherblades- Technological research, holographic projectors, cloaking devices, portals.

Nightmare Court- Husks.

Toxic Alliance- Plant Reactor, mind altering chemicals, hybridization machine.

The reactor

With all these components she has everything to make a stable (metal), hidden (cloaking), and reliable (husks) reactor. But what is she going to use that reactor for?

In the short story Ceara is described as wanting to break free of the control that the current systems put people under. This character would not want to be enslaved either by the Pale Tree or the dragons. So it can be fairly easily assumed she regards both as enemies.

To kill a dragon

If the goal is to kill the dragons, the first she would logically want to kill is Mordremoth- the plant dragon right next to her homeland which could possibly be able to corrupt Sylvari despite their current immunity to the known dragons.

Jenna vs Kralkatoric

With this in mind, what was the queen’s speech going to be about? Divinities Reach recently won a war against the centars, no other major enemy is threatening their homeland as far as they’re aware. But their sister city Ebonhawke, which they have a portal straight to is under threat by Kralkatoric. It would seem logical to imagine that if she is making a speech to all the representatives of the world it would be something of global importance, and if she was going to declare war on a specific dragon it would be the one threatening her satellite city, and the Black Citadel which would mean she’d likely get their support.

This would put Jenna’s plans in direct conflict with Scarlet’s as the dragons are on opposite sides of the world.

The logic of Scarlet’s attack

Were the humans to attack Kralkatoric the rest of the world, and the pact would surely follow. Scarlet’s actions could well be to prevent this and save them for fighting Mordremoth.

Capping dailies isn’t the answer, as it disadvantages new players.

Those who want to just do 5 dailies every day should not be effected at all.

With this in mind, the solution is to remove the day limit on earning APs from dailies. At the end of every day, unfinished dailies should be put in to the permanent section.

In the next patch, find the person with the highest daily APs and populate that amount of permanent achievements to each player. Randomly complete an individuals permanent daily catagories up to the amount of daily APs they have. Then from that point on each person can earn those missed points by completing those catagories.

For example: a new player today should have a general kills achievement with 57 tiers, up to 2850 kills. And an events in Shiverpeaks achievement with 57 tiers, up to 228 events.

Any missed dailies for content that is no longer available would add tiers to a general category that isn’t normally a daily. Such as Kill Skelk 0/10.

Doing this would even the achievement playing field, and would lessen burnout and would no longer punish people for missing a day (something which cannot ever be done due to the disproportionate APs of dailies). It would also give a significant exp boost to new players, who do not have the benefit of populated zones.

Smooth, go back to the BLTP forum. You’re trollin’.

webtoehobbit.4201:

Konig, king of the lore boards, don’t anyone else dare come up with a theory, cause only his are right and everyone else just doesn’t know what they’re talking about

Uncalled for. Just because you have a theory doesn’t mean you deserve adulation for it.

Theories are by definition unprovable and someone highlighting the flaws in thinking are invaluable to refining them or discarding unfeasible ones.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Caithe: “The Pale Tree has breathed her strength into me. She’s made me tangible…but only for a few moments.”

And she becomes physical.

That’s a bit of a stretch isn’kitten I think you’re falling trap to the ‘NPC words are laws’ thing again.

I would say Caithe is just tangible in relation to the dream, aka able to effect it. Drawing this in to the conclusion that the dream is a physical location seems ridiculous.

Even if we went with your earlier proviso- that the dream might be a ‘metaphysical location’- then it mayaswell not be a ‘location’ for the purposes of using it as a counter.

A ‘location’ cannot be a dragon, but a metaphysical one certainly can be.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

That’s because none of the plants are near dragon corruption. It would be like arguing centaurs are immune to corruption, or dredge or skritt or jotun or grawl or wurms… etc. etc.

True enough. I suppose we’d need more information on the matter.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Flesh is flesh. Bark is bark. What makes corrupting a rodent any different than corrupting a human? What makes it any different to corrupt the bark from an immobile tree than to corrupt the bark of a mobile and talking tree?

Because we don’t know if the shrubbery is corrupted in the same sense that a human is corrupted. The dragons mold sentient beings to do their will. The corrupted shrubbery has no will and so whether it is corrupted in the same sense is unknowable.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You’re arguing based on lack of models

As are you: by arguing that Sylvari are immune to all corruption. We haven’t encountered the dragon who specifically corrupts plants yet. But you want to say Sylvari are immune to corruption based on dragons who corrupt the flesh of sentient beings.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I gave one example because I knew it off the top of my head.

And if you mention the other examples I’ll address them.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

She wasn’t always the Grand Duchess. Cadeyrn pulled her into the Nightmare fully.

We were talking about how Faolain is an example of how you cannot get someone back from the nightmare. My point was that she has a reason to be a part of the nightmare due to power. But originally the beliefs of the nightmare likely swayed her, or she was converted in a pod (haven’t read the book, horrible writing, put it down after 2 chapters).

Regardless of why she joined the nightmare, the methods to bring her back weren’t exhaustive. If you want someone off other addictive substances you need to lock them away for a while- let them detox. This hasen’t happened, but you take people monologing at them and failing as proof they’re unrecoverable.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

But it’s still more exhaustive than what you can provide by any means. While we don’t see it, the Pact, Priory, and Order of Whispers if not more had been looking into means to counter or prevent dragon corruption. And it results in nothing (until Arah exp). Maybe they’re not looking in the right direction. Maybe there is no other direction to look in.

You cannot argue that “maybe there is such” without any form of supporting evidence. The moment you do that – which is everything about your theory mind you – is the moment I can proclaim that humanity came from Earth!

I can argue “maybe there is such” if the claim is “It is impossible to bring someone back from dragon corruption”. If the claim was “No one has found any way to bring someone back from dragon corruption despite trying really hard” then I’d have no issue with it. But you’re using the definitely ‘impossible’ claim as a counter against some of my claims, while the better ‘not found’ claim wouldn’t be a counter.

Change the severity and I’ll stop discussing this point.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And on a side, can you please not separate every single line from each other. Respond to the same responses in a group… it creates what are called “quote wars” which are very unappealing – and very long – to the eyes.

If I was nitpicking quotes and taking things out of context then it would be quote wars. The way both of us are doing it means that we’re actually addressing the substance of what we’re saying.

Were I to not separate as much I’d lose your points and instead we’d just be monologing at each other without resolving anything.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

On your first point: We have three cases of dragon minions existing before their respective dragon awoke – Glint, Drakkar/Svanir, and The Great Destroyer. Moot point.

Those were champions, I’m talking about minions. And I don’t think it’s unfair to also include appearing right before the dragon woke up: which covers destroyers.

Fire Elementals have existed in great numbers, in many places, and without an obvious origin point. The point stands, Sylvari appeared right before Mord woke up, exactly the same as Destroyers for Prim. Other creatures do not have this timeframe and so are not potentially linked to Mord- combine that with the next point for support of a linkage.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

In the later: Icebrood can be seen far from the Far Shiverpeaks, where Jormag lies. Branded can be seen far from the Crystal Desert, where Kralkatorrik reside. Destroyers can be found throughout the continent. Dragon minion presence is not limited to a certain radius to their respective dragon.

The radius might not be limited, but the centre point certainly is. Icebrood start at Jormag and make their way outwards. Same as Branded. Destroyers are unique in that we do not know where Prim is, and the origin is from under the ground making topography not the best predictor of location like the other minions.

As the dragons grow in strength their radius of corruption, represented by their minions, spreads out.

Fire Elementals do not follow this pattern. They are clumped in many unrelated areas.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It doesn’t make sense for sylvari to be connected to Mordremoth anymore than it makes sense for standard treants to be connected to Mordremoth.

Treants existed long before Mord was about to wake up. They exist in many different unrelated areas. Same as Fire Elementals, but unlike Sylvari.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Just look at the dialogue there. Malyck remembers everything perfectly.

I cannot see the quote you are referring to. Considering we have a wiki how about pasting the line you think says this? All I see are lines indicating that he is infact remembering something he had not previously remembered.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The amnesia was assumed by the sylvari PC because when the two first met, Malyck stated he knew nothing of the Dream of Dreams, Pale Tree, or the Grove. The amnesia was a complete misunderstanding on the PC’s part. Malyck never forgot.

Even if this is true (it isn’t and you’ve provided no quotes to support it), he still doesn’t know anything about his tree, which is what we were talking about. If he doesn’t know where he comes from- either by amnesia or ignorance- the point stands.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

(not a shaman)

Is this somehow relevant to anything at all? Because if you think that’s scoring points then there’s not much point continuing this. I’m after truth here, not winning internet points against an anonymous poster. I can certainly nitpick your posts to death instead of addressing actual points you’re making- would be a nice waste of several pages and a lot of time however.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Actually, my statement doesn’t assume the Nightmare is the dragon corruption. My statement was noting how the Nightmare is the hostile side of the Dream of Dreams. If the Dream of Dreams was the Elder Dragon – or the Elder Dragon’s consciousness – then the entirety would be hostile, not just a portion of it. Elder Dragons, by nature, are violent.

This is a poor assumption. For one the Pale Trees influence is what could make it non-violent. Another is that most of the purposes that the Sylvari get are violent, it’s just that they’re interpreted with a noble air. And thirdly it’s in Mord’s best interest not to provide a dream that is overly chaotic as otherwise there would be no purpose in order characters working on maintaining the dream.

So the original statement this was addressing was: How does the Nightmare in any way hurt my theory?

Unless you have a credible alternative explanation other than “Dragons are violent, the Dream which has a steward purposefully trying to make the dream not violent, therefore not minions”, then I’m going to stricken this counter from your list.

DevonCarver.5370:

Johje Holan.4607:

Why does making simple changes now preclude making larger changes down the road?

It does not, but it’s important to understand what down the road might mean. It could be a few months or it could be much longer. Any changes would be prioritized in terms of what the entire company is working on. If we don’t think those changes are the best use of resources, it could be a long time. And part of determining that is figuring out how well the system works as it stands. We have finite resources in terms of people and we put them to work on whatever most benefits the game as a whole. That is why I want a gauge of how important it is to you.

The smaller things are the most important.

Getting additional colors would have a gigantic impact on coordination possibilities and would also allow the meta to have more than 1 huge clump in the higher tiers.

If you just put in additional colors tommorrow the rest of the stuff could be left for months as everything else I’ve seen have been fairly ineffectual in terms of improvement- they would be nice, but not necessary.

Symbols would be good for color blind players, but if colors are faster then get them patched asap and put symbols in as a close second.

Justin ODell.9517:

Taym.8326:

I wonder how long it will be before people start afk wall running in hotjoin for money.

We’ve been discussing ways to more strictly police being AFK and leaving the game early. We don’t like the idea any more than you do.

The issue is that if doing team queues rewards more per minute than hotjoins I will simply join the harder ones and lose.

I wont afk, but I certainly wont try and I’ll find 4 others with the exact same attitude.

This isn’t hypothetical, it’s what I would do if implemented like suggested.

Josh Davis.6015:

tichorum.2415:

HOTJOIN is getting gold? Lol this will be good.

I’m not at the office so I can’t look it up, but if I remember correctly, you get more gold for LOSING Team Arena than you’d get for WINNING a CA/hotjoin match.

This seems overly silly.

It will just encourage people to team queue with no chance of winning to farm gold.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You cannot physically enter a vision or some mental connection. Only your mind can. But we (and Caithe) went there with our bodies.

When? Because in:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fighting_the_Nightmare

“Caithe: I am in Tyria, a land far away. Soon, you’ll awaken here, but for now, you live in the Dream. I can’t explain right now. We must hurry. Something is poisoning the Dream.”

Caithe says very clearly that she isn’t physically in the dream. Tell me which mission you’re referring to.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

So you’re going to argue that Mordremoth is the one and only dragon who can corrupt sylvari?

You are wrong here. Heck, there’s an entire heart

Go to the Dragonbrand and you will see a bunch of twisted trees – in Lowland Burns there’s even the Noxious Branded Plant. (sadly, wiki doesn’t have a made article for it).

There is a big difference between a corrupted shubbery, a crystalized tree, and a sentient being.

Unlike real life there are plenty of sentient plants in Tyria, but none are corrupted by any known dragon.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And there’s more than just the two lines in regards to trying to bring someone back from the Nightmare.

Was specifically referring to the story you mentioned.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Caithe, for example, had spent years trying to convince Faolain to return

Faolain is the Grandduchess of the Nightmare Court. She isn’t a strung out junkie, she’s the leader of the bureaucracy. Do yo believe that is support for the Nightmare being unable to be recovered from? Because to me it just seems like Faolain has found a solid seat of power and isn’t being offered an equivalent alternative.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Because it is the one and only case seen and – I should note – it has been mentioned by many NPCs that they joined the Orders or the Pact in hopes of finding a ‘cure’ but have become convinced there is no cure for dragon corruption (one such case being the R&D lab in Cursed Shore).

Okay, but that’s still not exhaustive by any stretch. At most we can say that we don’t know if dragon corruption can be recovered from apart from C. But nothing has been uncovered so far.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

By this argument, fire elementals are automatically minions of Primordus. Ice Elementals are automatically minions of Jormag. Etc.

That’s far from support.

Only if Fire Elementals didn’t exist except right before Primordus woke up.

Only if Fire Elementals only existed in the place Primordus woke up.

Key differences, and why Sylvari being connected to Mord makes sense while Fire Eles being connected to Primordius doesn’t.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If you went with Caithe to find his history, you would know that Malyck does NOT have amnesia. This is a mistake folks arguing against Malyck being evidence to counter the whole “sylvari are dragon minions” theory often make.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Different_Dream

I actually did do that storyline. And he does have amnesia. The quest above it specifically to meet a shaman to restore his memory which Trahearne believes was stolen by the NC.

Feel free to paste anything that suggests he doesn’t have amnesia.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If the Dream of Dreams was Mordremoth, then the Nightmare and the Dream conflict wouldn’t exist.

This is a bold claim. Why? It seems you’re assuming that your theory: that the NC are corrupted, and my theory: that the dream is the dragon are both true. And therefore mine is wrong.

I’ve been saying from the beginning that the NC have nothing to do with the dragon. If this is true then the Dream vs Nightmare faceoff still makes complete sense. The NC are simply rejecting the destiny hoisted on Sylvari via the dream, which just so happens to be sources from Mord and heavily controlled by the Pale Tree.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Means absolutely nothing. Jormag’s not in the dream, because no sylvari has seen it.

Jormag most certainly is in the dream, as the Sylvari know of Jormag.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

“She did not see what she thought she saw” (which is the Eternal Alchemy).

Which in now way contradicts that what she saw was Mord’s influence.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

it seems she simply hallucinated

So your explanation for what the line means is that it means nothing. As I said- you can either believe it means something, and the Pale Tree actually communicated that. Or that it’s meaningless gibberish.

I believe that something included in a short story isn’t complete gibberish as that seems like a waste of time.

automatically mean Mordremoth.

It doesn’t. Feel free to float an alternative explanation.

Why would comprehending the forces that shape the Sylvari cause society to collapse? Isn’t this exactly what would be true if Mord was really behind the dream and the Pale Tree was covering this up?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I also fail to see what this holds to do with anything.

If Maguuma was the next zone planned to be developed, which having two dungeons in the area suggests, then the Jungle Dragon was also the next dragon to be focused on.

Which makes the lack of anyone knowing anything about him point to something odd.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Keeping information vague is vastly different than contradicting old information or producing false information.

All the information provided in the race previews were based on current information. A newly revealed Jungle Dragon would shake up that paradigm. That isn’t “contradicting previous information” that’s a natural progression in a story.

Working under your definitions of contradiction would mean it would be impossible for anything to change or any new threats to be introduced provided a dev had said anything without a 3 page list of provisos.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Kralkatorrik is no more in the dream than the quaggan or Ventari are.

I agree. But all those things are in the dream, while Mord- a dragon that is wholly concerned with plants, that lives in the zone right next to the tree, is not.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Memories and knowledge of Kralkatorrik is in the Dream of Dreams, not Kralkatorrik.

Yes, obviously. When talking about being ‘in’ the dream I assumed you understood that this is what we were talking about. Things in the dream are representations, which is why it’s important that you understood that being ‘in’ the dream and ‘being’ the dream were two very different things.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Why would the Dream of Dreams – what can effectively be called a location that holds the memories of sylvari (and other creatures like the White Stag which are connected to it) – hold memories of something that is unknown? It would be weirder if Mordremoth was in the Dream of Dreams than not!

If Mord isn’t known to anything then obviously it wouldn’t be part of the dream.

I’m saying it’s suspicious that Mord isn’t known. That all Sylvari are conveniently heading east, and that none have gone west. In to a jungle region. You’d think a proportion of a plant species would be interested in such a thing. But all the dream missions, grand and small, are being directed east.

Is this supposed to be simply a result of us playing a game made by developers, or is this a part of the story itself?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The White Stag’s very much not a dragon minion either, and is independent of the sylvari but directly tied to the Dream of Dreams like the Pale Tree is.

It’s tied to the Pale Tree’s version of the dream. She cannot control the dream completely but she certainly claims to be it’s steward.

And how does the White Stag not being a dragon minion in any way counter anything I’ve said? I never claimed all things related to the dream are dragon related, any more than all things in Orr being Zhaitan related.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

No one said that Grenth was Dwayna’s son until GW2. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t known.

Quaggan, largos, and krait don’t mention the DSD’s name. But we know for a fact that the Pact and the Order of Whispers know that either it or Mordremoth are out there but never really talk about it except two lines. This doesn’t mean they don’t know about the fifth ED until mention of it… just that they hadn’t seen the need to mention it.

I don’t understand what you’re trying to claim here. NPCs mention that they know of the DSD. This means that people know about the DSD in game.

No one mentions Mord’s name in game and you’re trying to use the fact that people do mention the DSD as somehow supporting that just because people don’t mention something doesn’t mean it isn’t true?

Explain yourself. Because you appear to be using my argument: that absence of evidence doesn’t imply impossibility- something you’ve seemed to deny previously.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Nothing that proves it… but nothing that supports it either.

They’re a plant race, who were found in the same zone as the plant dragon. That is what supports it. I cannot be proven because we haven’t been given any relative information.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Malyck is but one piece, though important – and I don’t know what misconception you speak of, given his lack of being tied to the Dream of Dreams this kind of pointblankedly proves your specific theory false.

Malyck has amnesia. That is the misconception. People say “Malyck doesn’t know of a dream therefore his tree doesn’t have a dream” but he has amnesia- Malyck not remembering something is less than useless as a form of evidence.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Immunity another.

Which hasn’t been confirmed as we’ve never encountered the Jungle Dragon, the only dragon that actually corrupts the material Sylvari are made out of. You know what else the other dragons never corrupt? Plants. Show me the Destroyer Oakheart or a Crystalized Oakheart and I’ll concede this point.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The Nightmare a third.

How does the Nightmare in any way hurt my theory?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Dragonic corruption’s nature and reversal a fourth.

Seems like you’ve just mooshed together point 2 and 3.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

What support does “Pale Tree/sylvari = dragon minions” hypothesis hold? NONE. I’m not saying proof, I’m saying support.

As I’ve already stated, and you’ve failed to address:

Mord’s absence from the dream despite being 1 zone over from the tree itself.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/short-story-what-scarlet-saw/

“Please: go no further. In seeking to comprehend the forces that shape us, you will unleash them. Society cannot withstand that.”

Quite clearly talking about Mord, otherwise the line is just complete metaphysical nonesense.

The original map sent out to collectors edition people had 2 additional dungeons, both in the Maguuma region.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I don’t just spout bullkitten arguments like “a random NPC said it therefore it’s law”

Well good. And your next post went deeper in to your reasoning. I addressed why the sources you quoted are likely unreliable or don’t really suggest the things you claim they suggest.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

“Developers and out-of-universe sources hold higher likelihood of accuracy; in-universe sources follow “newest is most likely except when constantly contradicted or second-hand source”

Well this just doesn’t seem logical when examining a subject where the claim is that the developers are purposefully keeping information vague in order to protect a reveal.

I realize such a viewpoint is vulnerable to falling in to conspiracy theory, the CIA put microphones in my teeth, regions- but I don’t believe my theory falls anywhere close to that currently.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

A location. (see: A Light in the Darkness),

Justify this. Because in A Light in the Darkness we enter a vision facilitated by the Pale Tree. Why do you believe it’s a ‘location’?

I would say the Dream is the way Mord commands his minions, but because of the Pale Trees influence only the most non-harmful quests get through. This is why most of the tasks concern killing other dragons and travelling eastwards.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Sylvari being immune to dragon corruption is the entire reason why the Pale Reavers were created.

Yes but characters work on the same lore that we do. No one knows about Mord and therefore they don’t know of any dragon that could hypothetically corrupt them.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

you never see a Risen/Icebrood/Branded sylvari but will see such of other races. You say I cannot prove it but it is a fact stated by the people who made the lore.

The other dragons corrupt flesh. Sylvari are plants, this makes a fair amount of sense. The creators, if they were specifically going for Mord as the second dragon, and wanted to create a complex storyline where the Pale Tree was not entirely what it seemed, would not spoil the reveal in a race’s week before the game even launched.

If my theory is true, how would you expect the developers to act? I would say exactly how they have, and as such using their comments against the theory seems to be missing the point.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The notion that people cannot return from being influenced by the Nightmare is a heavy influence throughout multiple sylvari storylines

And how are we defining ‘influence by nightmare’?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gavin

Gavin is part of the nightmare court but acts like a fairly nice and honourable guy throughout his storyline.

Half the nightmare pod rescuee in TA story seem perfectly fine once released.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Heart_of_Nightmare

Is this really the exhaustive method of bringing someone out of Nightmare? Two lines of generic text? No potions, no 4 week detox, no long term mentor, or maybe spending more than 2 minutes doing anything?

Does this really satisfy you as proving that it’s impossible to bring someone back from Nightmare?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

except for Forgotten magic – which is one of a kind

Why do you believe this?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

That’s not what I said. I said – using your logical structures: “A cannot B except when C, but C is not present here therefore A cannot B.”

What you said is “A cannot B except when C, and C is unique and I don’t need to say why C is unique, but C is not present here therefore A cannot B.”

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Not only did you just contradict yourself here with your earlier statement of “Mordremoth is not part of the dream”

Looks like you need to work on your logic diagrams.

A is B.

A is not part of B.

The rest of your post is just baseless claims, the very thing you claim my post is. You say Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption, but cannot prove that. You say NC “cannot return from the Nightmare.” and present a random quote from a righteous-good NPC as proof positive of a fundemental law of the universe.

You say dragon corruption is irreversible and then contradict yourself in the next sentance.

A cannot B, except when C but ignore C because C doesn’t matter. Painful structure you have there.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING points to the Pale Tree being a champion.

There is a plant dragon next to where the seed was found. Dragon minions tend to wake up just prior to the dragon awakening. The areas where the jungle dragon would be were the ones originally planned for close to release but were delayed.

Nothing that proves it, if there was proof my post wouldn’t exist because discussing facts is a waste of everyone’s time.

But I’d love to hear all this evidence against it. Although I assume you’re just going to trot over a misunderstanding of Malick like people in the past have done, and apply more of your “A random NPC said it therefore it’s law” logic.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

What the hell are you talking about Kralkatorrik being part of the Dream but Mordremoth not?

Kral is in the dream. Slyvari are getting wyld hunts related to him. Mord: a dragon right next to the Slyvari homeland is absent. Fairly easy to understand.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

How can you know this?

Because no NPC exists in game that says Mord’s name. As someone who takes NPC speech as law I’d assume this would be important to you.

Heta.8629:

Content is started 4 months before it is released. This makes it impossible for a vote every 2 weeks unless they make 2 versions of every release. It also was said it divides the community greatly. That being said I would also like more votes but I imagine it is very difficult for Anet to do

Good job on reading the title and not what was actually written.

“Be afraid of dragons” in no way ‘implies’ anything.

You can come back later and say “this is what that meant” but the statement is meaningless.

To try and theorize based upon this statement would be as useful as throwing rice in to the air in order to make a house.

She may as well of said “Something big is coming”. Or “You better watch out”.

Yes, they’re words. And yes they have a meaning, and yes you can say “ooo- this must mean something”. But what that something is cannot be in any way determined by the statement itself. So it’s meaningless, it’s without meaning.

You can’t get anything from that.

It’s meaningless drivel.

At a later point in time we might able to come back and say “oh- that’s what that meant”- but this by itself cannot do anything.

You guys are looking at this wrong. You’re assuming that because the NC is evil that means Mord is behind it.

Remember that the Pale Tree is a freed champion. And there is a dragon right next to Asuran and Sylvari lands.

How could this not be a part of thedream, and yet Kralkatoric- a dragon on the other side of the known world, is part of the dream?

They don’t even know Mord’s name.

The Nightmare is just rebellion against order. The Dream itself is Mordremoth. It’s sending Slyvari to all corners of the earth. Got them to kill it’s closest rival for resources (Zhaitan) and is keeping them all away from the areas it’s building a powerbase.

The Pale Tree is using all it’s power to keep Mord’s existance out of the Dream, but Mord is also cooperating. If Mord really wanted to cause destruction and chaos all he’d need to do is announce himself. All of a sudden a plant race knows a dragon that specifically corrupts plants exists, they’d all be out for his blood- or they’d all be questioning the pristine morality of their race.

Instead the Slyvari are getting fetch quests in Ascalon and Orr. Mord can’t control anything, the Pale Tree is too freed for that. But the Dream is too fundamental to Slyvari for her to stop is completely.

Louveepine.7630:

I …
erf …
no, I can not manage to be okay with it ^ ^ ’

Why?

The Election patch was the most memorable storywise because it mobilized the playerbase to become connected to what was happening.

And they did this because they were able to make a choice. Kiel or Gnashblade.

Every patch should make use of this.

For example: Flame and Frost- Choose between Dredge and Flame Legion, who is least to blame? If Dredge win, CoF gets attacked and the entrance is changed forever. No actual content changes. If Flame Legion win then a few dredge caves are obliterated and random wildlife replaces dredge spawns.

Those who voted for FL get a Flame Legion mini. Those who voted Dredge get a Dredge mini.

Return to Southsun- Consortium or Refugees.

2nd Halloween- Mad King or Bloody Prince.

Doing this would encourage players to think about the nuances of the story as presented. Instead of “refugees good, consortium bad” you’d actually have liking the Consortium be a valid option, and that would put Kiel’s actions in a completely different light.

Right now the Living Story is a sequence of events. You run through them, get the meta, and then forget them.

I remember the election. I remember who I voted for and why. Giving players choice enhances entertainment by making them engaged with what is happening beyond how to kill the next pack of mobs.

AKGeo.6048:

I’ve been doing dredge since the start of fractals. I’m guessing you guys just got into it. Learning the tricks is always necessary for challenging content such as this one. proper team synergy and utility skills are required. You can’t just barge into it and keyboard-mash your way through, you need to be smart about it. Anet doesn’t need to nerf something that a knowledgeable team can skate through with little trouble. The playerbase needs to become more knowledgeable.

You’re not a special snowflake, you’re not just so much better than everyone else.

We know how to do it, it just takes twice as long as every other fractal and is not challenging.

It isn’t long because it’s hard, it’s just long.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Same thing.

It most certainly isn’t, because the solutions are the polar opposite of one another. A bad character needs to be shot in the head and forgotten about. Bad presentation requires identification of why presentation is failing, and what methods can be used to fix it.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Wait, what? She’s not shunned by anyone. That’s part of why her character is poor. Every NPC seems to do what she says, regardless of how stubborn or xenophobic they are otherwise presented to be.

Seems. We’ve never actually seen the interactions between Scarlet and others. We’ve only ever seen her appear after everyone is dead and then say something approximating to “I’ll get you next time Gadget, hahaha!”

We’ve never seen her before the insanity. I’d imagine the Asuras weren’t exactly nice to her, despite the fact they begrudgingly let her in. But we never see anything like this. So ‘seem’ is just another problem with presentation. Until we actually see we don’t know whether it’s a problem with her character or not.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

That’s more of just her pure insanity. And yes, it’s officially stated that she’s bonkers.

Which is a very boring interpretation. Just because she’s nuts doesn’t mean she doesn’t see a greater truth. I think you’ve got a fairly limiting understanding of what insanity is both in real life and as a dramatic storytelling device.

We actually know a good bit about her history.

The same way “He went to jail. Then was released.” Is us knowing the history of Nelson Mandela. Descriptions of facts and some trippy dream-scape vagueness is what we have. It’s a nice short story but it’s hardly appropriate as the sole source of Ceara knowledge.

We’re playing a game here, and the mechanisms used to tell the story of one of the main characters makes no use of the actual game. That doesn’t count as knowing, just as a fanfic for Buffy the Vampire Slayer isn’t appropriate source material for characters on the show (why I picked that show I have no idea).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Scarlet being part of Thaumanova actually does make sense. People are kittening and moaning about her ties to Thaumanova because her character is so poor.

Can I offer an alternative? Rather than her ‘character’ being poor- isn’t it really the way she’s presented.

Her character is a rebellious genius, obsessed with freeing people from destiny, but losing sight of the individuals she’s trying to free in the process. She’s shunned by her equals, and shuns those who actually respect her.

She knows horrible secrets to the point where the only way to function is to turn everything in to a game.

The character seems fine to me, the problem is the presentation. All we see from Scarlet is meaningless goodbyes, where she says the same thing in different packaging. “Goodbye, this is exactly as I expected HAHAHA”.

We know nothing about her history, we’ve never worked together, we don’t have any reason to feel that she hasn’t always been this way. In short we have no connection to her at all, and since we never know what she is thinking- only what she is doing- we’ll never have a chance to form a connection from the format of interactions we keep being subjected to.

Ask yourself this: would you have rather been escorted through the facility by Ceara who was a young intern in the facility after graduating from Statics? If so then is it the ‘character’ of Scarlet that is the problem or the presentation.