Guild Wars 2

Silberfisch.3046:

Plus: I still get nervous everytime I am in a group with Lilith because sooner or later she will invite some forum legend and I just know I will screw up badly and make a fool of myself. sigh

I know, right….

one thing i am kind of wondering about….

why ONLY mai Trin and Horrick?

regardless of the amount of buff they got and what it may or may not entail… why only them?

so…

you want them to spend time, resources and money rewriting a large section of the game engine to allow you to change you race…

or we could have them spend time, resources and money on making new stuff for us to play with, like new zones and dungeons.

0.o

that is so full of win.

Divus.3175:

@Ropechef.6192:

It is part of the challenge. It’s not a subject to change.

thats what I thought, no worries here mate

at least what I have been doing, I have 4 sets of gear for my Necromancer. each used in different places. It has been working for me. it might help settle some stuff for you.

DPS powerMancer: Bezerker/Scholar. Dagger with warhorn and focus on swap.

PvE learning how to solo dungeon path: Knights/scholar. Dagger with Focus and warhorn

PvE/WvW Hybird: Rampager/Runes of Aristocracy. Dagger and Scepter on main hand. with Warhorn, focus and dagger in off hands. Staff on swap ocasionally. The encounter will dictate to me what will go where. (been playing with lupi solo with this set. and running flanks and tail in WvW zergs)

WvW roaming, floating and attaching myself to a comander set: Dire/undead. Scepter Warhorn, and staff on swap.

I do not have a set of the Rabid yet. so I cannot vouch for its use or methods. At some point I would love to get a Set or 2 with strength runes…. Bottom line? personal opinion would lead me to say for WvW go Dire. for PvE go Rabid. I think your rune set will depend on how you want to build. and use a complimentary set for it.

random suggestion?

perhaps do it at level 40?

possible more teams to compete due to less AR required. Or is that part of the challeneg you all want to establish is the “toughest” setting and marathon it. ??

THEY DO IT!!!!!!!

I have been LoS’ed by open world mobs.

and… AND, “firey rushed” by that kitten able champion knight in malchors leap AGAINST THE WALL!!!!!!! needless to say i was utterly obliterated….

deep breath,

take a step back….

now,
You have laid it out on the table. and I will give you some good props for making a far better attempt than many people that have come before you. I am not going to poke very many holes in your argument as others are doing it. However understand that if you choose to, this can turn into a good discussion on how to make some stuff work FOR you and let the regulars and High end players HELP you so that you feel like you can come away from this with at least a little bit more knowledge and direction.

Some things first:

the only class currently that does not have a place in the SPEED RUN mentality is the necromancer. I will come back to this later.

Elementalists are HIGHLY sought after. they are the highest damaging class have wonderful utility and are generally all around useful.

Thieves have a good spot and it is not just because of stealth. Yes stealth is a great utility but they bring a bunch of other things, among them being Blinds, Usefull crowd control via scorpion wire. And easily one of the best abilities to strip defiant via off hand pistol. They also have obscene damage. and not just against single targets.

Rangers are an auto attack modification away from being the second most sought after dungeon class. Outside of that you still get some great damage, spotter and frost spirit and even a reflect.

Engineers are complicated. they are good at doing everything. but not great at any one thing. Hence they are awesome for Pugging and casual runs. But may find themselves not really needed in speed running.

Something to understand. “speed running” is done VERY, VERY rarely. It is accomplished by an organised group. with a VERY specific focus. Everything else is “casual”. Be it a farm tour, or just goofing off with some friends.

Running DPS build, and Wearing beserker gear is hard. it takes skill. Saying other wise is only lying to yourself or others. If you take some time and watch some of the Videos of the recent Dungeon Tourney. As a spectator, yes you could very easily seem to think that its all stack in corner and firey greatsword your way to gold and gems. if you actually put yourself in the position they are in you will find yourself pushing your knowledge of your class and what its capable of to its very limit. Why does it seem so easy? because they have been doing it for awhile. Practice, lots and lots of practice and knowledge of encounters.

Now,
Necromancers… I LOVE my Necromancer. It is the only one that has full ascended gear, it was the first one. All of my goodies are on it. So you are aware of how much time i have invested in it…. The reason Necromancers are not part of the “speed run Meta” is for one reason. They lack any sort of GROUP UTILITY. There… that’s it. Necromancers are a selfish class. Anything that they could bring to the table another class can do better. Yes, we have a blind, Yes we have a condi cleanse, and a regen. but they are all on such long cool downs that we become one shot and hope it works. It is just the nature of the beast right now. Do we like it? no not really. Would the Necromancer be welcomed into the speed run meta with open arms if they had something usefull to bring to the table? Absolutely. But we don’t, so we wait, and see what the future brings.

Which ultimatly is what you were asking for in the beginning. As a plea to anyone that may or may not see it. in a hope that the Necromancer could use some help. At least in PvE. Everything else was rambling, much like i just did.

so I apologize for being odd and strange, and most likely not making any sense.

Tl;Dr
Like playing your necromancer? Good on you, I certainly like mine. Keep at it and have fun.
Want to be part of a Dungeon ’TEAM". them be a part of the TEAM. Regardless of the class, have several. fit the needs of the TEAM as you feel that it will benefit the TEAM. And work together to accomplish your goals, as a TEAM Be it just a group that regularly gets together to run some dungeon paths. Or a group that wants to get a good farm going. or if you have designs on Entering the next tourney, or submitting a record to Guild wars speed records. Dont just try to be a good Necromancer, or warrior, or whatever.

Go and be a good player

o.0

suuuuuuuurreee…..

go and be smarter than all of us….

((thanks Dub ))

or maybe….

do some ascended crafting?

like actually use the stuff for what it was meant for?

and dont say its to expensive. I got 4 professions up to 500 for the grand total of ZERO gold.

If you are not going to craft anything, then just remove it. why bother even storing it if you are not even going to use it.

Darox.8069:

And so 1100 EST = 1800 CET, right?

Zel,

as of this posting.

it is 2:30 am Mountain standard time Saturday morning the 28th. making it 4:30 am Eastern standard time…. so.. what time is it for you right now?

Confirming, for my own Piece of mind.

11 am eastern standard time north america is start time. yes?

we have a pregame show or anything?

anyone meeting in the game somewhere for a “alt tabbed/second monitor” something or another???

much of the thief’s play is the same in the transition from dungeons to high level fractals. It becomes your personal knowledge of what you will be walking into.

have fun tiny ’sura creature!!!!!!

its dangerous to go alone, here take this!!

liliths dungeon forum lfg is OP

it really is.

why must you deny me groveling at your feet!!!

I has to go be responsible, and go make foods for people.

<—SAD FACE!

Rasimir.6239:

Imagine pugging CoF path 1. You’re coming up to the part with the fiery balls. Mesmer drops portal, starts to run, blinks to the end, somehow messes up the keys and manages to drop the exit portal right underneath the last fiery ball instead of behind them. Of course, the party doesn’t realise the mistake until they have all ported straight into those balls. Fail.

Now imagine the mesmer is you …

runs off to hide someplace nobody will ever find

0.o

you sir are a troll of the highest order

:)

((( I laughed,,, hard )))

IvanTheGrey.2941:

We HAVE to be united on this. The rest of the GW2 community is watching us, waiting for us to fail. The dungeon runners are the underdogs. Let’s go have FUN showing what we do best!!

Very much this..

Thank you Again DnT for hosting.
Thank ALL of you that are able to compete.

LezDoDisTing!!!!!

0.o

outfrigginstanding!

My kitties do rather good damage these days.

but yes, they are like little zerkers that you have to carry… and dont know how to dodge.

Fair reasoning,

I had not thought about the actual running part till you mentioned it. And yes you could very well shave off quite a bit of time had the 3 had at least comparable land speeds.

Awhile ago, the idea for Rampager being power main. was being proposed. Something i heard Nike say was that if they did do that, Engies would actually become OVERpowered, at least in PvP. As me not being a math guy i take his word for it. although i would love to understand why that would be that case. would having the slight buff in a power stat for a power condie gear set really kick up Engie and Necromancers damage to be that much of a powerhouse?

When you say a Ranger needs less dependence on sword. how do you mean? as does it need a buff to GS? or does the reliance on Pets make THAT much of a difference? Being that pets are a core mechanic to the ranger class. I doubt them changing them all that much. SO would a Buff to GS damage be a solution? or would that become something overpowered in a PvP setting? which ultimately is what we balance around…

(tin foil hat)

random thought i had awhile ago.

I wonder… i wonder if we have been subjected to another Honor of the waves troll…

has anyone tried to reflect the spider queens ( AC ) poison volley? i dont think it can be reflected. The Champion Spider in Arah used to be reflectable…..

I think they copy pasted the "champion/legendary: spiders to be the same. and to prevent said AC spider queen from just turning into another malrona (pre patch) they made all spider poison volley un reflectable.

shrug

(tin foil hat off)

And that is kind of what I am trying to figure out.

A Solo Warrior can do the same path in roughly the same time as the “unholy trinity”

WHY?

Or as a discussion concept, What would need to change?

I am in no way asking for a nerf to warriors. I like them the way they are? so how would we buff the other three to be at least reasonable??

Focus on the Tourney Gang.

Thank you for running you guys.

while i am thinking about it. Not right away, but would you 3 be willing to run path 2 again but with classes of your choice. for a 3 man speed run. I would love to have a time comparison for discussion.

Alrighty then,

[rT]
you guys took the pot for path 2.
http://www.twitch.tv/sylarscreed/c/4432054

please send me a mail either here or in game for how you would like your gold distributed.

I suppose in some ways my timing could have been a bit better. With the Tourney announced and kicking off, i did not really expect a whole lot of running for this after that announcement was made.

Still none the less Thank you those that showed interest and to everyone. Sometime in the near future, (after tourney) I would love to get an actual discussion going on the whole “unholy trinity”. Just an honest discussion on why those three classes struggle so much.

THANKS TO EVERYONE!
i will go insane again i am sure. and throw something like this out again.

Hey Gang,

Sorry I was sick as a dog yesterday and could not even make it to my machine.

Proze pool is ready to be distributed. I will Dish it out as soon as i get back from work tonight.

sorry for the delay

Devata.6589:

Ropechef.6192:

Traveller.7496:

Well, for all intents and purposes, instead of a trinity with three options we have one option: zerker.

so wait… the 3 other sets for my necromancer, the 3 other sets for my warrior, 2 extra for thief, the extra sets for my Ele, Ranger, Engie, Gaurd, Mes…..

all were for nothing???

i have been doing it wrong it seems…. pity, i was having fun.

Funny reaction knowing it was you who was basically saying everybody was doing it wrong (or did not get it). And now you act as if people say you are doing it wrong suggesting it’s a nosecone argument.

I actually do have that many sets of armour on my people. And i use them all

Based upon the role I am trying to/supposed to, fill within the context of what I am doing.

spoj.9672:

There are both ascalonian healers and ascalonian monks in that fractal.

i wondered….

well i will let my answer stand because well. its already there

but good to know.

Traveller.7496:

Well, for all intents and purposes, instead of a trinity with three options we have one option: zerker.

so wait… the 3 other sets for my necromancer, the 3 other sets for my warrior, 2 extra for thief, the extra sets for my Ele, Ranger, Engie, Gaurd, Mes…..

all were for nothing???

i have been doing it wrong it seems…. pity, i was having fun.

(( shoots forum bug ))

Wethospu.6437:

Next round (gw2dungeons won’t have all info):

Which of these enemies exist in FOTM? Where these (existing) enemies exist?

1) Ascalonian Healer
2) Ice Imp
3) Young Barracuda
4) Bone Fiend
5) Inquest Assassin
6) Murellow

1: I could be wrong but i am not sure that “healer” is in FoTm, mage yes, monk yes, but not healer. (again i could be wrong)

2: I am not aware of an “ice imp” in Fractals.

3: Swamp

4: Cliffside

5: Aetherblade (the regular shard NOT Mai Trin )

6: Molten facility (although i think it also depends on level and some RnG element i have run shards that have not had them in it. )

Hammerguard.9834:

Ropechef.6192:

shoot through or in or around a fire field?

equip a sigil of fire?

0.o

You did it! You saved Rangers. If only you got here sooner.

I really was not trying to troll. but unless i am misreading the skill from the GW1 wiki. (( and i am most likely doing so)) wouldnt a fire field and a sigil of fire acomplish the same thing?

shoot through or in or around a fire field?

equip a sigil of fire?

0.o

Rhomulos.2089:

I’ve said this for a long time.

Reduce dungeon mob HP.
sure, dont see why though

Give them all roles and self-sustaining abilities that are countered by different player skills.
they already have this.

Let them react to taking large amounts of damage/AoE damage.
they do

Give some mobs soft counters to different forms of damage. Endure Pain for example only mitigates direct damage and not condition damage.
Endure pain only mitigates direct damage for all of 4 seconds, and you are still susceptible to conditions

bolding mine

Pride.1734:

Enaretos.8079:

Pride.1734:

on the other hand people who sell runs would be pretty screwed if the party didnt have to leave when the host gets kicked. Everyone would just steal them runs for free. Then again its only half legit to do that anyways so +1 from me.

Selling non exploited runs is 100% legit.

And who checks that?

the buyer usually.

but then again, when I buy runs i know what to look for. And i usually try and find people that i have not bought runs from, more as a congrats you did it. than me wanting or needing the tokens.

Pick the class you WANT to play, all of them are capable in some form or another.

barring some exceptions.

In a Solo setting.

Arah 1: can be done all except Shoggoth, (the tar). it requires 4 people just to make him come out. outside of that the rest of the path is soloable.

Arah 3 and 4 have the orbs. That I am aware of, Warrior and Thief can do it solo. I have seen a Necromancer do it but that was a long time ago and many of the skill sets have changed a bit since. So i honestly cannot say if its possible or not. You can Always invest the 3 gold or so in a Watchwork portal device but that is up to you if you want to spend that kind of money.

Touching on Arah 4, Unless something has changed that i dont know about it is nigh on impossible to do Simmin Solo, barring a bug exploit. So you may want to seek help for that.

PIck a class you WANT to play and enjoy playing. go from there. In duo Setting you can accomplish everything in Arah barring of course Shoggoth.

Something to think about as well. If you are looking to make a fast buck, this is not a good way to do it. Selling Paths via LfG take a long time. unless you have a solid set of regular buyers. Regular buyers take time to establish. If you are just looking for a challenge and for some fun with a friend. Have at it, and you MIGHT, make a bit on the side.

none the less. Good luck!!

is it just me?

or do you all have a hard time reading posts that use texty shorthand?

much less take them seriously

(shudders)

And I am not even in a group that does this regularly.

The 17 paths in 3 hours daily group is a VERY, VERY small percentage of the playerbase. like around 1%

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Golds-from-dungeon-is-killing-the-economy/first

0.o

thoughts??

personally i think the dungeon reward system is pretty good. barring a few exceptions. namely fractals.

as I am not an Economist. what do you guys think?

How is me pocketing my gold from my tour. And then spending it on the trading post for stuff ruining the economy?

sounds like its pretty balanced to me.

A well done dungeon tour being 17 paths, and about 3 hours. Will generate, averaging it out for simplicity sake. Just shy of 30 gold from end reward chests.

thats it.

you have done your daily tour. you cannot get those dailies any more. and 30 gold is really not that much…

So yet why does an average tour yield 50 to 75 gold?

Selling off all my materials will do that.

Dungeons hand down is the best way for gold per time invested barring trading post Voodoo.

and that is exactly how it SHOULD be.

If anything, Dungeon groups are keeping the economy in check. By keeping a steady flow of crating materials coming in, and the willingness to spend our Gold on stuff.

Lian Olsam.9541:

the only guys i love support is guardian, i think its better have 4 zerk and a support guard, it’s safer imho, but that’s it, there is no point to play differently…

That is the problem.

You are tying support to gear. Don’t do that.

Everything about a guardian is support.

No the Necromancers are sitting in the stands next to the Arena net box staring at them….

:)

http://www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt/profile

correct me if i am wrong but i think its this one.

Solo content on any class you want, or whatever you feel comfortable with.

Engineers CURRENTLY (key word there) dont have a solid place in the “record run” Meta.

but we are not talking about Record runs. We are talking about finding Challenge and enjoyment in Soloing Content.

So….

Get yer Engie.

And I would (personally) suggest starting with AC Story.

Build? well start with the one you like… and then adjust it as you go along. its the beauty of the new trait system

If not expensive, exceptionally time consuming.

I have managed to get enough AR to run all the way to 49 with only my trinkets. Meaning lots and lots of fractal runs for the +1AR drops. and combining them. Ocasionally saving enough gold to puchase a mass amount of them for combining.

Ideal? hard to say. As i spend alot of time and effort into just being able to get the AR, where i might be better spent in armour and or weapon costs.

Plus side is that with Ascended being account bound now. i am no longer limited to who i can bring to fractals. I am now more of an assett to a team as i can change on the fly to a class that would bettter fit the role of the team.

So yes, you can and I do. Do fractal level 49 in exotics

now to get myself into a team…. 0.o

Lian Olsam.9541:

I’d love to have some differences between classes and pve, dungeons purpose,
there is quite alot actually

i play thief guard war necro mesm ele and the only pve purpose is do the max dmg…
that is incorrect. You assume that is the only reason. it is in fact not

I d like to use my chars differently,
what is stopping you? *

more mechanism, some parts who groups need only to cc enemies for protect npc etc etc…
So you are asking for Content that requires a specific type a role. there by denying access to said content unless you are of that role. Which goes against the fundamental Concepts of this game.

Problem is anet doesent read those kind of thread,
They do actually. *

and just make living story who alot of ppl doesent care,
Alot of people LIKE the living story. *

ppl wanna some dungeons with progress like fotm,
Yes I agree. if anything there is a cry out from the mass for More stuff to do. this has been established. *

and wanna have some unique chance for use his classes..
Again, what is stopping you?

is not possible lf max dps in every contents…
And again this is an incorrect assumption

Bolding mine.

Well put Bezagron,

An anology that I like to use when describing this. regardless of what anyone does outside of gaming or whatever hobby you choose to partake in We can all at least have a basic understanding of Cars and racing right???

So there you are sitting at the starting line of the Daytona 500. Pretty straight forward track right? Sure there is plenty of considerations one takes into account as you are about to run around it 500 times hence the challenge. So you come prepared. You slot some good solid construction on your car. you got some spare tires in the trunk and a tank of gas in the back. and you have 4 of your buddies along with you each with their own respective car. One guy even went a little more beefy and has an extra gas tank for anyone else if they need it. And so the starting gun goes off. and away you go. Sure enough after some minor setbacks here and there. One of your guys lost a tire. or someone ran out of gas. Good thing you had that back up. Yay! you made it. good on you. here is your prize and your sense of acomplishment.

Alright, lets do it again…. you know, i didnt use that tank of gas last time. i wonder if i could do without this time. You know we only lost 1 tire last time. do we need to bring 4 extras? lets trim it down to 2… just in case.

Alright lets do it again…. you know, we are getting pretty good at this. no one ran out of gas the last few runs. and we havent blown a tire in ages….

So hey gang. Me and the other guy tried it by ourselves last night. did’nt do to bad. we had some extra tires and gas if we needed it. but we only ended up using one of them.

I wonder if we can make our cars faster???

Ohh hey guys… i heard about this race Called the Baja, we should go check it out. We might need to get new cars though I am not sure our street races are gonna work so well in the offroad.

Ohh hey guys There is this other circuit over in Europe. supposed to be really fast. lots of fun. we might need new cars though… we can probably go faster then them but we cant turn worth anything. and they have lots and lots of turns.

something to think about. we are talking about a “race” that has been going for 2 years now. And yes it was certainly very hard in the beginning. But we got better. and we learned and we know how it all works now. We don’t need to change the existing tracks. there are still a large number of people that struggle with them even as it is. We need MORE tracks. New places to learn and test our mettle.

There is Balance in PvE. EVERY playstyle is viable. But If you show up with your trophy Truck, and line up with a bunch of stock cars. and then yell at the stock cars for “breaking the Race, and Ruining the track”……

The quote I posted before was not written by me, but someone else. Of which myself at least very much respects. he also wrote something else. that i think is appliciable now vs before. or at least an excerpt.

-

“The content is too easy”: No, the content is too old. I assure you, the first time you did Arah path 1 in September of 2012 was not as fast as it is done now, even if you are an elite dungeon runner now. Arah is very, very hard. Drop a new player into Arah with no experienced teammates and no video guides and suboptimal builds. He will fail very hard. In fact, drop the same player into any of the dungeons and they will likely struggle mightily. The content isn’’t too easy, it’s just too old. Even the more challenging raids in other games go on farm after two years of existence. The type of raid that took progression guilds two weeks to beat the first time around are facerolled by pugs after two years once the builds and strats are known. This is how MMO goes. If you want to decrease the berserker population, add brand new dungeons that don’t have established guides and community tactics yet and watch the casual berserker users put on defensive gear, or avoid the content altogether.

A very Wise man once said……

-

PvE has roles in organized groups.
Banner/Offensive Support – Warrior exclusively due to access to banners.
Might/Fury Stacker – Usually Ele with Persisting Flames and Strength Runes
Pure DPS – Usually an Ele without Persisting Flames (or with it like a Staff ele but who doesn’t focus on Might stacking as a main feature)
Reflection/Defensive Support – Reflects projectiles. Cleanses conditions. Grants stability. Guardian or Mesmer usually.
Content Specific Roleplayer – changes dependent on content. Can be another Pure DPSer. Can be another defensive support reflector. Can be a Thief for DPS+Stealth if you’re doing content that benefits more from Stealth than a 3rd FGSer or 2nd Reflector.
Why isn’t this super obvious to the community? Because in GW2 these aren’t hard roles. Everyone is expected to contribute Might and Vulnerability to the team. Even the Pure DPSers have some utility skills that can absorb projectiles or blind foes. So the lines between roles are often blurred, and in unorganized groups, the lines are completely blurred and people just hope things get handled.
But if you look at the current speed run records as well as the types of party comps the elite pve guilds use in organized casual runs, they generally fit this paradigm.
Waxing poetic, this is a pretty good thing, because it means you rarely have a single point of failure and with good teamwork you can overcome your reflection class being defeated by shifting that role on demand. The downside is that unless you deeply understand the intricacies of the game, a casual observer of a dungeon speed run won’t see all the utility skills being used, they will just see big dps and think that is everything. So instead of my above team comp they just envision teams to be, “DPS x5” which is quite unfortunate.
______________________________________

something to think about.