[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
Btw. Cruel Repercussions proc + Coalescence + EtD is glorious.
We have strong raw healing, good access to cleansing conditions from allies and our “role” as support comes from providing debuffs (Vuln doesn’t count), unique boon corruption, a lot of condition manipulation, we can soak more damage than any other profession, we have Epidemic and other pretty kitten amazing non-DPS utilities like CPC, Plague, SWall… We have meatshields in form of minions.
And we have like best rezzing potential ever on 30s CD.
If you just stop tunnelvisioning on current PvE speedrun meta, you will see that we can actually offer a lot of things.
Have you seen these raids already?
Because I haven’t.
Now they have to hurry up with balancing the peasant professions and the Ele more than ever.
If they don’t add weaponset to Core profession now, it’s unlikely that they will later.
We really do need that main-hand range/midrange condi weapon. It’s really only weaponset we truly lack. Condition builds are kinda stuck with power-only swap weapon – Hammer, Staff, Sword and those aren’t hybrid damage at all.
It’s not said that we have to have weapons just for specific Legends.
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It’s been a long-time problem of Life Force development being stuck somewhere in the beta. Instead of functioning as a fun resource mechanic, Life Force is a damage sponge you can use every now and then.
When they announced that Necro is getting Elite Spec and said it will have new ways of using Life Force, last thing I expected was getting all 5 shroud skill replacements and doing absolutely nothing to solve Life Force problem, but eh, we have to deal with it
Maybe someday, sometime!
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Necromancer absolutely obliterates Mallyx in two seconds.
And EtD is rather weak aside from the stat boost. It works nice if you’re copying non-damaging control conditions, like Chill, Weakness, Cripple or Blind, but it’s not worth using for the damage, since it doesn’t copy whole stacks.
If it was -6 or even -7 in it’s current form and synergized better with Demonic Defiance, it’d be good. -8 and Defiance which makes you constantly swap in and out of it just to get your Resistance is rather weak.
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I have almost full Ascended Clerics ready
I kinda wish Sword #2 had something like follow-up attack with some good damage.
It’s not that bad I guess, since it’s way better situation with UAssault+Blitz and AA as a possible damage rotation than Necro AA all day till you fall asleep so there’s something to click at least, but another one would be nice.
I so find it funny that chill is supposed to be reapers thing and it seems like all the other classes are getting ways to ignore it.
they don’t want Reaper to be OP, that’s why. aside that, did you see Revenant elite specialization video? it has a utility skill that pulses Chill 2 times and it stack in duration(3s) and it only has 15s cd. Necro/Reaper supposed to be master of Chill, and yet Revenant got Chill with pulse. how ridiculous is that?
This skill pulses over time, each pulse applying different condition. First applies Weakness, second Chill, third Burning. And it’s all stationary. And you have to stand in it for fair amount of time to get more than Weakness. Hardly ridiculous.
Any time you go from things working 50% or less of the time to working 95%+ of the time, things will be “better.”
MM Necro being decent I’d say is a good thing. The build has clear counters, strengths, and weaknesses while not being overbearing to the point where out-playing it is definitely a possibility.
Sounds EXACTLY like turret engi to me, and that was basically deleted from the game.
Never really had a problem vs turret engis, but I DO HATE passive play and don’t think that it should exist in any form of PvP. But that is just me…Anyway, I give it a week, then this will be another very vocal hated build.
You remind me of something…
Hmm…I kinda like the idea.
What would be amazing is that if we got unique stomp animation, similar to Dhuum ban
It’s pretty kitten visible and if Revenants are getting dodge fluff, why shouldn’t we get some awesome finishing animation for rolling the Reaper?
^Cele Necromancers don’t stack.
Eles do.
These rules are completly off. It narrowed the build variety to the point that some classes will be nearly unplayable.
Necromancers will have to pick Golem as elite….Golem…
No celestial will take one of the best necro builds for Spvp out.I pass on that. :/
To be honest…what else would you pick instead of Golem with now fixed targeting? Plague for 1v1 against a profession that deals mostly ranged or semi-ranged damage + conditions?
As for Celestial Amulet – keep it banned, I’d like to see something unique instead of copy-pasting one build. If anything, allow more niche amulets like Crusader’s.
For the first one I would recommend using the hammer. Paired with impossible odds AND field of the mists, hammer does a kitten load of damage.
Hmm…it depends.
Hammer is nice on WvW, but rather hopeless in actual PvP. It’s main source of damage scales with range, #5 is too slow for PvP and once someone enters point blank range and starts running back and forth through your character’s model, he will cancel most of your AAs and you’re forced to swap.
Staff on the other hand has an amazing block on low CD, condi cleanse/heal, evade with CC and good damage, weakness and a daze. Plus pretty good AA with nicely scalling healing.
As for the OP – I would consider replacing OH Sword with OH Axe. Look at those energy costs on sword, eugh.
I’ve already signed up couple hours ago, but I have couple questions:
Tip for the future: Instead of listing banned amulets, it’s easier to just say “Zerk/Marauder/Carrion/Rabid allowed”. Less typing.
P.S. Think of using mid on Courtyard as the Arena for future tournies if it’s not Thief one. It has much more fair size, proper LoS and doesn’t mean that if you’re not ranged or Thief, ur kittened.
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Well, no wonder.
Apart from 2013 Dhuumfire and Power Necro when procs align, good Thief has always been countering Necromancer pretty nicely 1v1.
I’m still more concerned about Chronomancer.
The “333” S/P and the “222” S/D may come back, but they will at least lack either Deadly Arts or Acrobatics for rolling the elite spec.
As for the Spec itself, it looks like hell lot of fun. Kinda like a Windwalker Monk, but more evasive and stealthy. Will surely check it out.
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I think Replenishing Despair is kinda like a band-aid for those who roll Corruption, but not Mallyx. Or run Mallyx, but don’t really have to worry about Condition removal (a.k.a. zergs) and use it as a bonus minor heal.
I don’t remember how it scales, but if Replenishing Despair had better heal than 40-50 per Condition it would easily compete with Defiance for some builds.
Venom Enhancement is in much more dire situation here.
I think that if we added something like “When you Chill foe, apply Poison” or “When you Poison foe, apply Chill” to this trait or Frigid Precision (which is rather weak) it would be synergy worth considering.
A closer approximation to Breath of the Great Dwarf would be to heal allies and remove Burning from all allies thus healed. If that’s too specific, it could remove a condition from all allies, remove other damaging conditions as well as Burning, or some other variation.
Or Breath of the Great Dwarf could be applied to Rite of the Great Dwarf… and give all allies under the effect immunity to Burning for the duration. Or just plain Resistance, but that might need to be a GM trait…
Yeah, but we already have Eluding Nullification and countering one specifc condition isn’t really great. It wrecks Burning-oriented builds and does absolutely nothing with non-Burning Condi builds. Countering or cleansing specific conditions has sense if their side effects are harmful for your playstyle i.e. removing Poison if you heal (old Ranger’s NMagic Evasive Purity), movement impairing effects if you have to be super mobile (Shiro’s setup). Removing just damage is rather niche and cheesy. Sure, Ele has that but Ele is cheesy as hell
.
I wouldn’t add more to Rite Elite. With reduced cast time and cost(?) I think it will be all right. Adding too much stuff to it would lead to nerfs or bumping the Energy cost.
I’m using old GW1 names as sentimental throwbacks and sometimes try to preserve the theme. In this case, part of general theme was removing a condition, so I re-used it. Importing whole skills from first game to the second isn’t worth it, most of times, because combat systems are so different.
Oh and I’d suggest adding an icon if the trait is avalible to use. Makes using it more predictable for both the Revenant and his opponents.
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One point I can 100% agree with is that Embrace the Darkness if traited with Demonic Defiance should apply that resistance every couple seconds or has it’s cast times and aftercasts removed.
Pulsating Pestilience trait would’ve been awesome if I could control it. It’s such a good, but entirely passive proc and 75% time it gets wasted. Swapping it with Defiance is okay I guess, but I’d rather have Resistance as Mallyx-specific and regular cleanses somewhere else.
Since we will likely see one Retribution Master slot freeing up as Roy announced, I’d suggest something like that:
This would make this Specialization much more desirable along with changes to GM traits I’ve suggested in stickied feedback thread, wouldn’t give us Condition removal, however it would synergize greatly with Glint and Mallyx and Shiro (encourages staying in combat) and bring more strategy to using our heals. And it has decent counterplay.
Oh and in case of Glint, it could trigger after our better Defiant Stance fades, like Protection from Glint’s trait should (I hope!)
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Judging by amount of threads about it, no, you’re not the only one.
Personally, I haven’t noted it as some huge problem when I was playing. In theory, yes, you can AoE displace on short cooldown. In practice, if you want to spam it you’ll be dead by third Unyielding Anguish.
I think it’s like with Epidemic. In theory, it’s one of the most powerful abilities in game. In practice, very few people run it.
Unyielding ,for me, is amazing mainly for cancelling stomps/rezzes and because it has Cripple you can copy.
I wonder if they fixed Displacement vs. PvE immobile mobs and Stability. Any news, @Roy?
This version of raid on the capricorn looks quite good! Remove water-capturepoint and reimplement this map:)
they can just put mid on the boat and replace water with sand or smt….done
Imagine 5 v 5 like that
They’re testing plenty of different game modes and maps and we know that.
Source?
Isn’t there a thread just below about 16 old PvP maps with almost certainly various game modes/mechanics?
Yeah, simplicity is the Key.
There is a reason because people like forest beach for 1vs1 and 2vs2: large space, spawn points close, some little los elements and some place where teleports dont work.
Really simple and work really well
It’s really not a good design for anything besides running between points as it is far too open with basically no LoS, but people got used to it and Courtyard middle which would be far better sadly has problem with bridge pillar.
There’s been huge outcry and requests for more game modes, far from nobody, over the years. We just don’t feel as turned on by stronghold as we should
So you speak for everyone?
We disagree with your statement. (notice how equally ridiculous this is).
Casual PvE players love stronghold. PvP players hate it. This is my experience with the gamemode based on my friends, guilds, teammates I had and reddit.
I consider myself primarly PvP player and I like it very much. Couple of PvPers I’ve been discussing this game mode with liked it too.
It’s not ideal, but it’s beta and will be changing. They won’t scrap Stronghold however and suddenly replace it with something else, so we might as well just focus on feedback and enjoy it.
After Stronghold, who knows, maybe long-awaited Arenas or something else. They’re testing plenty of different game modes and maps and we know that.
There’s been huge outcry and requests for more game modes, far from nobody, over the years. We just don’t feel as turned on by stronghold as we should
Personally, I like Stronghold. It just needs a little more creep tuning and more varied heroes. Possibly something like Mercenary camps, but these could be saved for another map.
Oh and something akin to mount system to use out of combat only, so mobile professions don’t have such advantage.
I like king, light and great traits. Good job on these. Mist vessel wont happen tho and i hope it will stay this way.
Thanks. I don’t think that messing with Energy gain for the Core spec is good either, considering old Initiative on crit trait in crit strikes which became mandatory for Thieves.
It seems like I misread what Roy meant and gave ideas for replacing wrong trait, but many of these can be used regardless, just with changed numbers or added effect, except of King’s trait, since it doubles the same use in one tier.
I see a crucified Pyramid Head being eaten by Azathoth.
Coolest icon.
That would take rebalancing of all weapon skills across the board with probably some nerfs.
Every time they try to add a new map there’s a huge community backlash that finds a reason to hate it. Why would they bother to add new maps?
I think it’s because they mixed new maps which are rather different in play (Courtyard is another game mode and Skyhammer ,while CTP, knockback wonderland) with regular CTP maps and put them all in one queue. Temple for instance isn’t really hated and wasn’t here on release.
I wouldn’t mind if they were adding new, even unfinished, beta maps to Custom Arenas.
If people did like them, they’d place them in hotjoin rotation and then further maybe.
Nobody would really be forced to play them since it would be just custom servers, maybe even marked with BETA sign. We would have fun, they would have feedback. I’m down for such testing, anyway.
I’m surprised that there haven’t been many most simple, small 3v3 arenas with some LoS in WP’s video. I know that one of Charr ones shown in the video was previewed couple years ago as much smaller version, Dalaran Sewers-style.
And gib me back my Capricorn as a choice for Custom Arena.
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Post it on Bugs forum.
Windwalker Thief
I’m sure Arena Net hasn’t forgotten about players who don’t really want to be raiders. There will be scalling Fractals, now easier to pick up than ever, current dungeons are likely to stay, World Bosses aren’t going anywhere.
Besides, challange may not only come from twitch reactions, knowing tactics or super coordination etc.
It may as well be that to overcome something you’ll have to customize your build a bit or theorycraff your way to victory instead of using same things everywhere and getting bored after 2 hours.
If game via “challanging” gameplay suggests you that you should maybe stop for a while and think what you can do and how you can prepare better (getting more familiar with a the game and mechanics themselves) so you can play your profession to it’s max potential – that’s a sign of a game which is challanging in the right way.
Waiting for Bhawb’s stream now.
Yeah I wouldn’t wait too much, moved back to my room for university, and the internet here is complete garbage. Tried to play a game of League yesterday and would spike from 100-300 ping constantly.
That said, this looks really nice. Assuming it fixes the issues associated with minions, which it absolutely should fix the most basic ones, this is a great start. Still need to look at the fact that minions have to stop to attack so even if they have a target they can be infinitely kited after 1 attack, and some things related to being too easy to kite, but still a great start.
:(
I’m moving back in a week so I will be able to stream more often in exchange, I have waay better connection where I study :P
One of the pvp devs confirmed via PM that they are fully aware of this problem.
So it’s legit. Balance, boyz!
@Rym what if epidemic increased duration of conditions on the target before copying them?
Then I would proceed to Fear-> stow cancel Epidemic ;>
And increasing the duration of conditions can be tricky. Increasing the duration on bleeds by 3s is perfectly fine, but doing the same with Fear? Uh uh, gimme!
Waiting for Bhawb’s stream now.
Just curious about one thing that wasnt mentioned at all.. Now that Jalis hammer were changed, whats about reflexive summon trait which remains at 180 radius? Can it get changed to 120 as well? Or maybe get rid of it completely and change it to apply 6sec on 15cd weakness when we get hit (instead of activating on our hit) similiar to protective ward from rangers?
Overall I feel like that trait is lack luster, I’ll probably be re-making it when I do a trait pass. If you all have any idea feel free to shoot them out. I’ll also likely combine the two on CC traits and make a new master tier trait for that line as well.
Keep up the awesome feedback everyone!
Roy,
Since you’ve asked, I’ll list bunch of suggestions for both traits (“R” near the trait’s name means it’s reference to GW1 skill of the same name):
Replacing Improved Agression
Replacing Reflexive Summon
Rest of Trait suggestions for Master/Grandmaster tier
I also think that Steadfast Rejuventation is rather boring trait. Will try to come up with some alternative. You could replace it with one of the above GMs, tho!
I will be updating this list. But that would be it for now.
Hope that you consider these and my suggestion to Invigoration Flow above.
Cheers!
EDIT: Added one more category and one trait.
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If their actives were ground-targeted with long range and Spirits themselves got passive range increase they would be decent.
Still, I’m not a fan of spirits and wouldn’t mind if:
a) They worked like Guild Wars 1 Ritualist’s Spirits
b) Acted like environmental effects on both allies and enemies like they did in Guild Wars 1 for Rangers.
Having more pets which don’t do much and just passively proc boons + worst design of weapon in this game (Ranger’s Shortbow) = terrible and braindead gameplay that’s not interesting for either side.
I liked Overloads, especially Air and Water ones.
Fire…I think something like big, ground-targeted fireball version of a little stronger Killshot exploding for tons of damage on impact and leaving Fire field for completing the whole cast would’ve been awesome. Tornado is very meh.
Earth was okay, but animations are not really that smooth.
I like concepts of Warhorn in Air and Water. Rest is rather not interesting.
Shouts apart from healing one are boring and not innovative, although I admire the work put in expanding fire rings, looks cool.
For Master of Corruption, I’d like to see a stacking condition damage
(or cdamage+power) buff and maybe a bit LF for every condition that the necromancer inflicts either on himself or draws off of allies, Corrupter’s Fervour style. Possibly on transfers too. That is, have this instead of the higher cooldown reduction.
While I’d like it to be per condition currently applied to the necromancer, like Mallyx, doing so would mean that friendly condition clears turn into a negative experience.As for damaging conditions not scaling with Necromancer condition damage. Fairly certain that would result in them always working as if at 0 CDamage, even when transferred, turning them from a potential element to use in your playstyle to thematic fluff that is at worst taking up a spot on a transfer or blocks a friendly cleanse.
Not necessarily 0 Condition damage. They could make them use whatever static number they like.
Upon transfer, these would start counting as Your conditions (similary to how Parasitic doesn’t heal you from self-applied, but once you transfer them it does), so as I suggested – transfers scalling off Necro’s Condition stat & duration.
It doesn’t have to work like that, I don’t know the game’s engine, but one of possibilities. It’s simply unfair that Condition builds actually have that trade-off and others do not.
Healing from gained conditions is already a trait in Corruption traitline for Mallyx. I doubt we would get the same. 3-4% Life Force & some other bonus per Transfered condition would help Corruptions compete with Spectrals and Signets.
I get what you want with getting Mallyx and Glint, as both have effects which would match kinda decap build, but there’s no reason for Cleric amulet whatsoever in your case. Celestial would be miles better.
I don’t have good specifics yet, I’ve been thinking along the lines of making the self-applied effects significantly stronger/more meaningful, but also the actives, and focusing them on extremely non-selfish utilities, like the old BiP GW1 build, without making them strictly bad without a group.
Consume Conditions: Remove its label as a corruption, return it to pre-nerf 25s CD with no vuln applied
Epidemic: honestly no idea, the ability already has an insane ceiling, in a way it already has all the risk/reward of a corruption, but instead of self-harm the “cost” is it is super hard to use in best-case situations. I’m not sure how to make it stronger without making it OP, a lower CD probably wouldn’t matter, making it stronger under good situations isn’t needed as it is strong enough. My guess is somehow strengthening up its base use somehow, maybe make it apply the conditions you are spreading to yourself, and then spreading them from yourself and the enemy?
Corrupt Boon: instead of only corrupting 5 boons, it corrupts all boons on the enemy, and has a scaling effect with each corrupted on top of a base. This could be something like keep the current effect just to cast (if you miss you still get poisoned), with 1 more stack of poison per boon removed. This returns its previous power, but at a cost that you have to mitigate. I’d also say the poisons applied shouldn’t scale off your condition damage, but be a flat amount.
Blood is Power: I’d like to return this to closer to what it was in GW1. Make it AoE quickness for you and your allies, but you sacrifice a percentage of your max HP to cast it, and give it a relatively low CD so you could “spam” it, but if you do you really need to be careful.
Corrosive Poison Cloud: Now projectile reflect on top of current effects, has a lower CD, but is an upkeep skill. You are still self-weakened on activation, and spend a certain amount of HP every second it is active (if you go into shroud it remains up, and you still lose HP) to upkeep it. This can make it a significant AoE denial skill, and have a low CD, but you can’t keep it up forever.
Plague: another that I’m not quite sure of, mainly because the entire use of the skill currently is tanking, and corruptions by definition weaken you, making it harder to tank. Personally, I’d rework it to not being a transform, but instead being an effect like Reaper of Grenth that follows you as the blinding version of plague, and then I’m not sure what really fits. Maybe have it apply weakness to yourself (could even have a pulsing application to make it harder to just transfer once) so while you are defensive, you aren’t going to deal a lot of damage or dodge a ton.
Master of Corruption: I’d have it increase both the self cost and strength. For example, if it was 50%, you’d have to pay 50% more HP, or have 50% longer conditions, but Corrupt Boon would apply 50% longer base duration conditions, plague would last 50% longer, etc.
Some of these are mediocre ideas, but overall I think the best idea is to make corruptions more group oriented, though not necessarily bad without a team, but you have to really deal with the negative effects and build around them, while gaining meaningful strength out of it. Just like GW1 BiP couldn’t just spam BiP without thought, it required a dedicated healer or you to shift your build to accommodate it.
Epidemic could apply some basic DoT by itself OR the moment you start casting it it “copies” the state of conditions on your target. So for instance if you apply 6s Chill and then click Epidemic straight after, it would not copy Chill left by the time you finish the cast, but amount of stacks and duration there were when you started casting. That would make it much more useful.
Corrupt Boon – just keep the CD reduction and make it corrupt all boons like in the good old days and this skill will be brilliant.
Blood is Power – I don’t really have big complaints. However, I wouldn’t mind if they reduced the cooldown, bumped self-bleeding, kept the might and made it a stunbreak.
We all know that 2 minute Bleeding doesn’t really shine anywhere in the game.
So instead make it a very short cooldown stunbreak, maybe matching Zerker’s Outrage (10s) when traited, with Might application and strong self-bleeding as a trade-off for using it often. That would be the closest to what Corruptions/Sacrafices are meant to be – More powerful versions of skills avaliable to other professions, but with a trade-off.
Corrosive Poison Cloud – a lot of folks underestimate this skill. I think that after MoC change it’s our best Corruption. Would be fun if it transfered 1 condition with every tick or had increased radius. Doesn’t really need much, 20s CD makes it kitten good. Keep projectile reflection to Well of Darkness, so that bad boy can see some use.
The only real problem with CPC I see is that majority of “big burst” comes from range, like Mesmers. Not a fault of the skill, though.
Plague Maybe add a pulsing skill which extends applied conditions by 1s with every pulse? That could be interesting.
Plague is nice. As much as I would love to have a Transform to Orrian/Risen Wraith model and have something similar to Lich but for Condition players (like super-corruption form – similar feeling to popping Dark Soul on Affliction Warlock in WoW), I can wait for it in other Elite Spec
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Master of Corruption – Corruption builds need, first and foremost, sustain and Life Force. Wouldn’t mind if this trait gave us some Life Force & maybe Retaliation/short Protection when we transfer a Condition.
Now to solve two problems:
1. Problem Uno is that Curses traitline needs baseline transfer. And probably baseline self-condition application. That would solve many issues and make both the theme and synergy more smooth.
2. Problem Dos is that Self-Condition damage from Corruptions needs to be standarized when applied to Necromancer.
Currently Non-condi builds taking these skills lose absolutely nothing. What, 500 hp? That’s no trade-off. At the same time, Condition builds are being bullied by this trait because they have Condition damage and that damage from 500 can go up to 5000. That’s unfair. Make it equal risk for everyone.
There’s also third thing, a little bit controversial. I believe that transfered Conditions should scale with Condition damage stat.
About self-conditions – if you give Curses traitline users some way of transfering conditions baseline, I would finally see them as a gain and beautiful synergy. I don’t mind them and I understand the intentions, just give me the tools.
Uh, and replace self-Blind on Consume Conditions. It’s absolutely terrible condition to have on heal. Replace it with self-Confusion maybe.
Oh and get rid of that ugly Plague Sending proc. That’s disgraceful. Keep ya filthy Signets to Spite, I don’t want to cheese
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Learning how to play guitar, so I can make a praise song about Roy if I get my F3 for cancelling Facets and Invigorating Flow change.
Yeah, that will need some fix eventually.
On the good side, we get traited version of Defiant Stance (with trait not many people actually take), but waaaay better since it has no cast time. So I assume we can activate it while in CC and heal to full cuz nobody’s going to stop the pain train
There’s also an amazing synergy with Shield #5 – You make people break the defiance bar, you get 25 Vuln and THEN you use this heal for 25% more healz. Synergy, boyz.
“We’re proud to announce our first Support/Tank specialization for Thief – Dare Devil and his healing-oriented melee weapon – Staff!”
as for lock on trait, now this is gonna sound silly, but it only applies the reveal when using a targeted ability. you might realize that if theyre stealthed, you cant target them!
Doesn’t it mean ground-targeted? I’m not Engi, but I remember the speculation with revealing Grenades.
would be nice if corrosive poison cloud would travel with you like flames of war for the warrior. They have the technology….
That would’ve been really nice.
I’m not the fan of Invigorating mostly because it’s not really an interesting or visible trait. Just some added passive healing and we already have that in Retribution GM. I very much prefer more active traits with visible effects. Spawning Orbs would not only help you, but also your allies. And I like their mechanic, it’s fun and engaging. Not to mention if you make effort to collect most of them, it’s pretty nice healing.
Replacing our Master minor in Salvation is something I was also thinking about and doing that with Eluding Nullification is nice idea. My other slight tweak on it was replacing gained Toughness with Vitality as healing specs will take Cleric’s gear in general and probably want some more Vitality to counter bursts/conditions better.
With Serene Rejuvenation you mean that we would get straight +15% healing? I’m not sure if I like it. Something added to that minor, like 5% healing done to allies also heals the caster would’ve been nice, though.
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