Guild Wars 2

Alekt.5803:

Sagat.3285:

Alekt.5803:

GrandHaven.1052:

Alekt.5803:

What’s the issue guys? I can break a Diamond Skin with settler amulet. Just prepare a burst.

This hurt my brain…

Why is that?

How do you burst with Settler? What is the point of your build? Just wut..??!

Like I said before make Stoneheart the power version of Diamond Skin and give it a couple days for twice the complaints.

It’s a dps conjure elementalist with Diamond Skin.

Settler dps conjure and Diamond Skin that’s sounds creative. I don’t get it though you can’t have settler and dps in the same build throw in “prepare a burst” that’s an attempt at mindfk.

Alekt.5803:

GrandHaven.1052:

Alekt.5803:

What’s the issue guys? I can break a Diamond Skin with settler amulet. Just prepare a burst.

This hurt my brain…

Why is that?

How do you burst with Settler? What is the point of your build? Just wut..??!

Like I said before make Stoneheart the power version of Diamond Skin and give it a couple days for twice the complaints.

The V.8759:

Give more amulets with condi stats… currently there are way too few

uhohhotdog.3598:

Saiyan.1704:

Alhadin.4032:

No other aspect in this game is like……….. insert what you want.

Wrong. This is in regards to trait performances, not mechanics. Grab any trait that’s suppose to have a certain function. DS goes above and beyond that function. It completely counters a build type. Not a class like.. a thief or guard or necro.. a build. All Condi.

Alhadin.4032:

“Have 2 or 3 condi classes 2v1 or 3v1 a DS Ele in the same way”
Why on earth do you have 2-3 condi classes on one team?

That right there, is a misconception that people have. Like it or not, this game has 3 build types: Power, Condi, and Sustains. They’re all equally viable. Mix and match them to suite your playstyle.

DS is a trait that counters condition builds.
There is no trait that counters power builds.
Signet Necro can potwntually soft counter heavy boon sustains. Still, not a hard counter.

You can’t justify Diamond Skin.

There is a trait that makes you immune to crit.

Change Stoneheart to immunity to direct damage when over 90% HP and witness the uproar. If condition builds were as effective or popular as power ones the same uproar would happen.

It’s the same for every class at this point I think it’s intended.

No condi thief build is in a good spot either but like firefly said you can roll YOLO venom share if you want and like it. If you are talking PvP good luck.

Nutjob.9021:

Frankly I was underwhelmed. As someone who is a fan of the Daredevil comic, the name gave me high expectations.

The dodging/evading stuff wasn’t that effective compared to what I had to give up to get it. It was difficult to control in combat. I could see myself dashing off the edge of a cliff, which is a very dangerous thing to do in HoT (not to mention Edge of the Mist or half a dozen other places). It didn’t seem to make it any harder for NPC’s to hit me. I suspect it wouldn’t make it any harder for PC’s to hit me in WvW. We have this thing in GW2 called “auto targetting” which means that jumping all over the place like a kangaroo on speed doesn’t actually do you that much good.

DD seems like more of a novelty line of traits, something you do for a week or two to get some cool screenshots before going back to a real thief build that actually works.

The tool tips in the Daredevil line are hard to follow. I had to go to Dulfy for explanations on how some of them work. PIXELS ARE FREE, A-NET! Sheesh!

It feels like the Daredevil trait line can’t figure out what it wants to be. It tries to be offense here, defense there, and utility over in that direction. Pick one to concentrate on please. Trying to be a “well balanced” thief (or any class for that matter) means you either get crushed in WvW or you end up surviving, but accomplishing nothing. Balance is something to be accomplished overall when considering all the trait lines taken together, not something done in a single trait line. It’s like celestial armor, one of the most useless armors in the game because it tries to be a little bit of everything, meaning it’s not really good at anything. I think maybe there’s one build in one class that uses that armor.

DD feels like A-Net wants thieves to give up on being anything but condi. I despise condi builds.

Basically I see no reason to use the DD trait line. It has a few good traits here and there, but not enough to make it worthwhile to discard one of the good trait lines I’m already using. Maybe if I had a condi build I would feel differently. If that’s the case, it’s just another nail in the coffin of anyone who isn’t a condi thief.

Condi thief…??How did that get mixed up in there? It’s not doing good righ now anyway if you mean ballerina thieves then I’ll remind you that Death Blossom is still the same.

Jekkt.6045:

something i realized during the last beta weekend was the strength of reapers and how heralds slowly outdamage eles. now i won’t say that d/d is perfectly balanced (in regards to skill <-> reward) but if they indeed nerf them without compensating them otherwise (i would love a meta where dps ele would finally be viable) then ele will disappear from the pvp meta as a whole.

reaper pretty much counters d/d ele, i tested this with a necro friend, both 2000+ games on our respective classes. all the chill, the transfers, corrupts and direct damage a reaper can make use of will kill an ele over time.

on the other hand, i have played on herald and i have played on d/d ele against it, if you use your evades, blocks and cleanses well enough you can keep yourself from dying while you slowly outdamage a d/d ele.

counters are on the way

Boon hate is getting more common?

Anchoku.8142:

Zenith.7301:

You can take it with any stat combo because either way you’re not doing any damage with it lol. It’s both a terrible power and condition weapon damagewise, you just bring it for the aoe fear/condi transfer and occasionally chillblains.

This is exactly the point Arenanet is making. Necromancer ranged damage is not supposed to equal other professions. Lower mobility and lower ranged damage are the trades for higher melee sustain.

No one here will claim Necro staff is as good as Ele staff. If you want it improved, explain why, in the context of Necromancer’s design.

What lol? Necro is mainly a mid ranged class it’s just that the options are lacking identity and efficiency. We only had 1 melee weapon until Reaper.

Plexxing.2978:

It would be nice if focus 5 converted boons to conditions like axe 3 rather than just stripping them.

Turn all necro boon removal into corruption it’s thematic \o/!!!

style.6173:

Some of you actually seem to think that burning is balancing right now.

Have you fought a necro using Wetfire?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Bumy.8057:

choovanski.5462:

evades, blocks, and most invuns work against condi damage, and you have resistance

I don’t know how delusional you are but, evades and blocks do nothing against condition damage. You can’t evade conditions nor block them once they are applied to you the only way to get rid of them is through cleanse.

You could try avoiding the application. It’s no harder than avoiding a Power based attack.

For example, Grasping Dead is no harder to avoid than Maul, but I bet I know which one you dodge and which you ignore at the time.

If you mean initiative gain on evade Acro has it.

Why not make it baseline instead of having to buy Acro 2.0? I’ve suggested a long time ago that it should work like Larcenous Strike nothing positive happened so far about it.

Talking purely PvP I stopped doing that on thief for a while now necro is my main for this mode it offers what the meta needs but lacks which is boon hate. I’m not going to delete either of my thieves but “he who knows his name” will eventually come to reason but until then no step for them in PvP.

I haven’t see any other mmo replacements yet either.

It’s better than any combinations of axe,scepter,focus,OH dagger and running only dagger/MH,condi necro or what is left of it shouldn’t think of anything else so in short we settle down for it. I had short success with staffless condi necro prepatch however.

It’s just easier to add blind to CnD and give /d builds more freedom in SA, blind is really strong against slow classes necro and war in mind it’s getting common as well blind stacking is not worth it just for thief. Avoiding the attack is better than trying to heal it off that’s why SRej is trash if you’re going to get hit for way more than you heal at close range after CnD without blinding them. Withdraw is becoming the to go heal that’s not a good thing they already made a dumb move by putting deception CD trait next to SE. If Resilience applied on revealed then it would make sense but thief is not meant to take much hits anyway so it would always be inferior then SRej.

Lots of disagreements but I do hope he understands the overall idea.

Resilience is trash if the rest of the game didn’t get a damage boost and thief was made to facetank I would say otherwise it only applies while stealth I would take the 300 toughness and healing power instead. CnD advantage was quicker stealth that 1 attack that he missed is more significant then the healing of SRej with all the attacks since he doesn’t see you can reposition to avoid the rest. SResilience is trash just lack SRej is trash if you have no means of safe healing thief facetanks terribly.

Blind stacking just for thief is worth it?? How is giving CnD baseline blind or putting CiS back to master buffing anything that’s too strong? It definitely isn’t buffing d/p who can afford taking SProtector and SRej with baseline blind on OH pistol. Did I forgot to say SResilience is trash?? My bad it’s trash.

Did you use SResilience pre patch?

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Fixes that I think could bring D/D up to par without making it overpowering:

1) Blind instead of vuln on CnD (as seems to be the general concensus)

No, please – give me my CiS back instead – I want to keep my vulnerability.

D4 could use a buff, yes – I like DB as it is though, a slight buff maybe but no experiments, please.

And I’m saying this as a D/D main – I’m using this set for a while now (1,5 years).

Just in before the devs think your points are what all thieves want.

They could add blind on top of vuln. Does that fit under all now? Only 1 person said “replace”.

T raw.4658:

Sagat.3285:

T raw.4658:

Jana.6831:

T raw.4658:

I’m guessing you missed the video of the fella winning duels running a condi thief with no weapons?

If Anet would require Power/Precision/Condi damage as the ONLY way to pump condi damage then we might be able to have a conversation about skill and condi thieves in the same sentence.

Either way its not happening and you are doing yourself a disservice by playing p/d condi.

You do realize that these videos were made before the patch, right?

And now we have a trap ghost thief build which is even more broken.

Like i said if we make conditions require high power/precision for optimal damage then I may change my mind.

Btw this isn’t thief specific.

And yes i do realize that they nerfed bleeding/poison/torment damage. Thank god they did.

Bleeding and poison are trash even ranger needs additional burning to make it useful, that ghost build is a troll one it’s ineffective in squad please stop with the random duels,there is a reason why sinister will only work vs AI they don’t do anything about conditions or nothing at all if you think it works well vs players you don’t know how conditions work a lot of people don’t.

Condi thief “opness” in WvW has been discussed already that’s too WvW to handle their differences from PvP.

You seem to forget that Anet does indeed balance on WvW. I’ll just say Infusion in Shadow and now you’ll stop talking about thief balance for PvP and WvW being seperate http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusion_of_Shadow

Condition damage builds are supposed to be attrition based. Currently we have condi bombs and condi burst. (If you deny this then pretty much this conversation is over) My proposal is to keep the condi burst/bombs/whatever but make the builds glass to apply them. You could still build your condi build with dire/perplex but you won’t be able to burst someone down with conditions. It’ll be TRUE attrition gameplay. So Yes sinister would be required to achieve condi bomb damage. If you have trouble making it work maybe you need to reevaluate your own play because glass players have been doing it since release.

I understand how conditions work. Its not like i’ve never played condition builds. Unfortunately I have quite a bit of experience on condi builds. That being said I am all for returning burning to what it was before the last patch. Make it only stack time. Even before the 23rd Burning was too strong, but I’ll take that over what we have now.

Thank You

A glass condition player would have to have higher dps uptime then a power spec due the possibility of conditions being cleansed,transferred etc. That has a higher chance of happening in team fights then mitigating burst. There is a reason you don’t see condition focused spec in zergs your idea of “glass condi” would only work vs GW2 mobs. If you weren’t able to mitigate them sure.

I do agree on IoS.

Burn nerf affects everybody Dhuumfire is too wet on base shroud.

T raw.4658:

Jana.6831:

T raw.4658:

I’m guessing you missed the video of the fella winning duels running a condi thief with no weapons?

If Anet would require Power/Precision/Condi damage as the ONLY way to pump condi damage then we might be able to have a conversation about skill and condi thieves in the same sentence.

Either way its not happening and you are doing yourself a disservice by playing p/d condi.

You do realize that these videos were made before the patch, right?

And now we have a trap ghost thief build which is even more broken.

Like i said if we make conditions require high power/precision for optimal damage then I may change my mind.

Btw this isn’t thief specific.

And yes i do realize that they nerfed bleeding/poison/torment damage. Thank god they did.

Bleeding and poison are trash even ranger needs additional burning to make it useful, that ghost build is a troll one it’s ineffective in squad please stop with the random duels,there is a reason why sinister will only work vs AI they don’t do anything about conditions or nothing at all if you think it works well vs players you don’t know how conditions work a lot of people don’t.

Condi thief “opness” in WvW has been discussed already that’s too WvW to handle their differences from PvP.

Chapell.1346:

Some of you crying because lack of sustain, they gave you an option to choose both Shadow Prot and S.rejuv so that you can heal like a healing signet while stacking Regeneration through stealth(I do not know if this one is intended or a bug,if some of you has the knowledge please do share inb4 exploit) if you people still having problem with Thief sustain, maybe its you not the class because thief is not meant and design to access all possible sustain other class profession has(again prove me wrong).

As for Cloaked in Shadow; worth to be Grandmaster a good option to those who preferred glass or the other way around. What am i saying is, as offhand dagger i should have option to access blind like offhand pistol have (blinding works perfect against a.i doing burst when timed properly and good combination using Tactical strike mainhand Sword stealth skill cos of daze and it takes skill to land CnD against player in spvp scene) this comes from a thief who played their game the way they want.

You partially missed my post SA thief healing is trash without blind which d/p naturally has but since it seems you agree with CnD getting baseline blind it’s alright.

A better one…putting CiS next to SRej is basically similar to removing blind from BP. Simple and unreasonable gutting “he who knows his name” you can try to do that and all of us will guarantee you anything with OH pistol is dead basically what you did with OH dagger except that one didn’t had it baseline. If that’s not logic I need to rethink everything I’ve done so far.

If you want synergy and not forced traits like SE give CnD baseline blind and you can delete CiS.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

T raw.4658:

4. Vincent: Many are clamoring for blind to be added to CnD. That would give blind to non SA thieves right? As for moving being able to have CiS, SR, SE, and -25% damage….Yeah no. That’s a bit much.

You didn’t understand my post.

If they are to keep CiS as is, then it doesn’t belong in GM, thus it has to move to a Master where your fear will be realized.

However, my position is to keep CiS in GM but make it way better than it is to rival SR — for instance, make it apply 5 stacks of Blind for 5s.

SR and CiS practically do the same thing. One regens health while the other prevents damage where the net result is the same, thus they shouldn’t be in the same build.

I’m disappointed in that judgement but glad someone made it this only applies when you play d/p because the blind portion is baseline on OH pistol(see where I am going?) without the blind to guarantee some of the healing SRej is adept level. Someone is going to call me stupid but think about coming up close with CnD and using SRej you will take more damage then if you were using CiS it’s trash without blind.

So the two needs to be usable d/p doesn’t take it because again the blind is baseline that’s why the set works it’s called synergy which they broke when the two were put next to each other. You could delete CiS it’s fine as long CnD gets baseline blind. “He who knows his name” I know you don’t play a lot of thief but this is a clear explanation of why d/p is the “only” option in PvP and why OH dagger was gutted. Anything works in WvW or PvE.

Vincent I hope you get that as well.

Jana.6831:

Sagat.3285:

Put the fall damage into adept instead next to Last Refuge it deserves it

Honestly; it has saved me some times, last refuge has saved me as well, but I can’t take it anymore anyway as it’s in the same tier kitten and I don’t think anyone who has ever used SA has not taken SE, maybe we should make that a minor trait.

If Last Refuge was reworked and showed an icon when it’s off CD maybe, the fall trait was an extra for WvW. I doubt we will ever see SE baseline especially since they nerfed it just facetank that blind and weakness. I would be calm just knowing CnD got blind baseline or CiS is back at master tier.

If anything the extra initiative from Trickery should be baseline. There a couple traits like this for every class Fast Hands for war,Vital Persistence for necro etc.

Jana.6831:

T raw.4658:

2. Jana: Notice I said prepatch. Post yes the condis were nerfed, but its still very strong. I believe buffing the defense lines takes precedence over OH dagger.

Not sure actually as all of it works together. Whether you make a trait with blind on stealth or make CnD blind on stealth… is not that much difference as P/D thieves take SA as well. Only S/D might not take it, but as I said; few of them actually use D #5.
Come to think of it: Remove the falling damage trait from Cis and give it to Shadow protector and make that a GM (which no one would ever take).

Put the fall damage into adept instead next to Last Refuge it deserves it

Anchoku.8142:

Wait to see what Robert Gee does with his own rework ideas.

The trollest outcome would be scepter becoming power weapon and axe condition. I believe in “a” rework I worry about when I will see it.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Already been brought up several times in the last 3 months, wouldn’t surprise me if this is part of the ele nerf that’s supposedly happening.

I’m all for Diamond Skin rework but your post gave me nightmares.

laquito.5269:

Wow, I didn’t realize that most of you seem to be monkeys that are overwhelmed by doing anything but BP + HS spam. SA is passive as kitten, all you need to do is go into stealth and reset your fights at will, which can hardly be considered active play considering you’re playing with blinding powder, shadowrefuge, stealth on steal and D/P.

We’re talking about the state of thief in PVP here, not WvW and certainly not about other classes. Anybody claiming that SA got “nerfed hard” in comparison to pre-june is a hypocrite, nothings basically changed for d/p SA, they even got another goodie being stealth on steal. If you’re still dying with D/P SA in PvP, you’re just straight out garbage or to put it into Helseths words: “You should never die as a SA thief”.

Noones ever gonna go for Critical Strikes or Acrobatics as long as Shadow Arts remains the same. Low Risk High Reward. Looking at the thieves main mechanics for damage mitigation, evading and stealth, no buff to Acro will ever help to challange SA’s status of being the best defensive traitline.

This whole discussion is a perfect reflection of the increasing casualness of this game. Thief used to be high risk high reward, the current meta spec is just another copy of D/D Ele, Shoutbow, PU Mesmer, Burn Guard etc. – Low Risk, High reward and ridiculously easy to play. These builds take away any skill depth of a class and just promote kittening casualness.

If thats what ANet wants, fine then so be it, but I certainly won’t support or cheer for this bullkitten. You also seem to mistake class balance and meta balance. I never said that thief wasn’t balanced or underpowered in the current meta, but thats solely due to the fact that many other classes are just overpowered. I said that – in comparison to Critical Strikes and Acro – SA is ridiculously overpowered, which noone can denie. With that being said, simple buffs to acro or CS won’t change the D/P SA meta, cause it has no drawbacks at all.

Edit: Being able to max out 3 full traitlines is the worst joke this game has ever seen. Almost every class got access to a build with virtually no weaknesses. I’m sorry but thats just bad balancing, but I guess the casuals will still argue in favor of that, because GW2 got a lot easier, lulz.

I’ll deny it go play SA in PvP with everything but d/p then come with screenshots of foes saying you were OP. If you want to know what is passive Acro is at least the okay-ish traits are.

T raw.4658:

I understand what you fellas are asking for and to a certain extent I agree. First though you have to look at ALL the combinations of X/D.

The blind on stealth was moved to GM prolly due to the fact of P/D being able to spec fully into 3 lines. I’m sorry but before the patch looking a 3 GM trait P/D thief screamed OP. Also you remember that S/D the “evasion” weaponset would be getting access to blinds as well. You pair Blind on stealth, 25% damage reduction in stealth, AND Shadow Rejuv on those builds and we’d be facing the nerf bat.

I suggest reverting the nerfs to our defensive trait lines first, and while I agree that D/D power thief needs help YOU have to remember that buffing OH Dagger will inevitably buff Dire P/D. <—-Needs to become an unviable option for thieves.

Keep WvW out of this their food,stacks etc that’s to them to deal with,class balance is not based on it and bleed and poison are trash conditions. I would rather not nerf d/p that is the standard we need and please saying SA is passive Acro is. If they worry about CiS going back to master slot just add blind to CnD simple it really is.

Some keep forgetting that the rest of the game evolved as well the others classes also get 3 lines.

Quadox.7834:

Sagat.3285:

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Chapell.1346:

the viability of P/p

Clearly player skill issue

topkek.

Chapell.1346:

My declaration of war

War against Thieves in favor of keeping them just as they are? If so then topkek.

Thief is fine in Conquest, rumors says Practice makes perfect.

Topkek.

Thief is fine anywhere but the pvp scene, which is mainly comprised of conquest.
Telling someone to practice when their only gripe is that they dont have the sustainability to do so feasibly is what I can only chalk up as great ignorance.

I’ll say it again: We’re asking for time to fight, not free bags. It’s shocking how many people think that SB #5 should disqualify thieves from being able to do anything -but- port, and even more shocking how people shy away from taking as valid any claims that other classes can be just as mobile without also being trash at 1v1.

And for those of you regurgitating the “But thief is used in hi tier tournaments so it must be fine!” Stop it. That’s stark false cause. Thief being used in any respect does not mean it is fine at all.

Thing is, the meta thief build as it is can’t have more sustain, top players are already calling it unkillable unless they make mistakes. If you mean non meta builds, i agree.

Again, I have not said anything about builds. I don’t think I’ve mentioned a specific weapon except SB and its #5, because that seems to be the linchpin that is preventing people from thinking that thieves should not be free kills when encountered alone.

I don’t care about meta anything. The class itself needs a way to sustain.

Your first statement intrigues me, though. Who specifically said thief is “unkillable” unless they make mistakes, and was it before or after the recent patch?

The combo of SA and vamp makes them super survivable, but nevermind that, since you don’t care for meta, that’s fine. Thief as a class has way too low sustain for bruiser playstyle outside stealth

I’d still like to address the meta build, even though I am not focusing on it.

SA is nice, ill give you that. It could be better, but its good as is.

Vamp is an external factor that people are looking to have nerfed anyway, so I wouldn’t say that makes thief viable in itself. If they nerf vamp, not even the burst playstyle thief has will be viable.

There’s a lot of little tweaks that could be made to help us just plain live.

SA cannot be better, the traitline is kittening strong man. If anything acro should be the “bruiser” traitline, since daredevil does the dodges.

SA is only acceptable if you are using d/p SE nerf and CiS and SRej next to each other killed it for other sets.

Then DP needs nerfs/changes

So kill d/p,wait till “he who knows his name” makes staff a viable weapon and we have to get HoT not only for Acro 2.0 but also a viable fighting weapon? Double SB thief confirmed!!

Daendur.2357:

And what about “concealed defeat”? Basically is like they said " no reduced cooldown on deception" .

No one is using Last Refuge either they should put the fall trait in adept instead,SA is wrongly organized.

It’s been mentioned and ignored since patch if moving CiS to master is too hard for you based on unknown reasons just add blind to CnD even if it has a smaller radius (180).

Edit: nope just make it 240

Saiyan.1704:

Nier.8741:

PU, Turret Engi, same garbage.

I don’t know why ANET doesn’t get rid of these things so the game will be fun. D/D ele is up there but that’s easy to nerf without gutting it.

I haven’t seen a turret engi since the nerf hammer o_o
PU mesmers… well.. who in their right mind would engage them 1v1?

I have seen 1 and on his team was a trap thief they were paired with a pretty good group of 3. The rage was real lulz they lost so bad I have never fought such weak builds. On PU if you can’t solo them the team usually outrotate them they are more annoying then efficient. I’m not sure what’s the point of this thread though and the prejudice on condition specs.

Bllade.1029:

Jinx.4619:

And dont say its l2p issue im at dragon rank in pvp that mean i know what im doing

No one is going to take this post seriously now.

I get the point of thread but mentioning dragon rank does take away attention…

All things that were already been mentioned I would prefer if SoSh applied AoE slow in addition to blind but everything is on point especially blind on CnD it would be easier then putting CiS back at master level and it would only help the sets that needs it. The most important is DD is supposed to be optional and has no relations to SA.

Aryuke.9743:

Here what a necro can do in WvW on condi build

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOAyxyhEkX4

Daredevils are not good foes especially with staff, revenant with shiro/jallis is free bait to condis, bunk guard is a easy match up, other necros is proc wars those mesmers are suspicious. Not a bad vid or player but the foes were not the best to show to say scepter is acceptable especially in WvW.

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Chapell.1346:

the viability of P/p

Clearly player skill issue

topkek.

Chapell.1346:

My declaration of war

War against Thieves in favor of keeping them just as they are? If so then topkek.

Thief is fine in Conquest, rumors says Practice makes perfect.

Topkek.

Thief is fine anywhere but the pvp scene, which is mainly comprised of conquest.
Telling someone to practice when their only gripe is that they dont have the sustainability to do so feasibly is what I can only chalk up as great ignorance.

I’ll say it again: We’re asking for time to fight, not free bags. It’s shocking how many people think that SB #5 should disqualify thieves from being able to do anything -but- port, and even more shocking how people shy away from taking as valid any claims that other classes can be just as mobile without also being trash at 1v1.

And for those of you regurgitating the “But thief is used in hi tier tournaments so it must be fine!” Stop it. That’s stark false cause. Thief being used in any respect does not mean it is fine at all.

Thing is, the meta thief build as it is can’t have more sustain, top players are already calling it unkillable unless they make mistakes. If you mean non meta builds, i agree.

Again, I have not said anything about builds. I don’t think I’ve mentioned a specific weapon except SB and its #5, because that seems to be the linchpin that is preventing people from thinking that thieves should not be free kills when encountered alone.

I don’t care about meta anything. The class itself needs a way to sustain.

Your first statement intrigues me, though. Who specifically said thief is “unkillable” unless they make mistakes, and was it before or after the recent patch?

The combo of SA and vamp makes them super survivable, but nevermind that, since you don’t care for meta, that’s fine. Thief as a class has way too low sustain for bruiser playstyle outside stealth

I’d still like to address the meta build, even though I am not focusing on it.

SA is nice, ill give you that. It could be better, but its good as is.

Vamp is an external factor that people are looking to have nerfed anyway, so I wouldn’t say that makes thief viable in itself. If they nerf vamp, not even the burst playstyle thief has will be viable.

There’s a lot of little tweaks that could be made to help us just plain live.

SA cannot be better, the traitline is kittening strong man. If anything acro should be the “bruiser” traitline, since daredevil does the dodges.

SA is only acceptable if you are using d/p SE nerf and CiS and SRej next to each other killed it for other sets.

babazhook.6805:

Sagat.3285:

This will drag forever when this DD is released I’ll be waiting for the ballerina thieves and their effectiveness. I said that before but they don’t balance around neither PvE or WvW.

Well just go on playing your d/p. It seems it the only build some can get to work.

It is IMMATERIAL what they balance skills around. All that is material is what works where. D/d works fine in WvW and if do not PvP i really do not care what it does there.

You cant hold a point in PvP by stealthing. It does not mean stealth useless everywhere else.

Why do you assume I play d/p?? I mainly play PvP on necro now, my 2 thieves are pretty much focused on WvW which means I can make anything “work” with them. About stealth in conquest it doesn’t matter you still get in stealth anyway, to position,rez or disengage. That argument only worked because you lost too much choosing it on power spec pre patch if that’s “he who knows his name” excuse for nerfing SA maybe he forgot rest of the classes can also use 3 lines and he directly hit p/d and d/d while barely affecting d/p then he tries to smiles with DD and act like nothing happened.

You not caring about PvP is all I needed to hear. The results and efficiency of ballerina thieves(in WvW for you) will have the last laugh I’m done trying.

This will drag forever when this DD is released I’ll be waiting for the ballerina thieves and their effectiveness. I said that before but they don’t balance around neither PvE or WvW.

Ehecatl.9172:

A big reason thieves are bad at 1v1 in Conquest is because the number one question everyone asks themselves when they make a build for SPVP is “Can this survive a thief 1v1?”

Every build that can’t defeat a thief 1v1 is pushed out of the meta solely because of that. A thief’s mobility is more than enough to chase down and kill anyone who can’t fight them off every single time they meet. If you can’t beat the thief in a straight fight they’ll farm you the entire match.

Speaking as someone who’s tried many, many times to get a zerker staff ele to work this is my experience. I can deal with just about anything with triple cantrips even as a glass cannon with the exception of being instantly downed by someone I didn’t see there.

So it stands to reason if thieves want more 1v1 power they’d need to lose their god-like mobility to compensate. Similar to how rangers are great at 1v1 but bring nothing else to a team that’s worth while. Hopefully Daredevil will work as a lower mobility 1v1 fighter once the expansion hits and thieves will get the playstyle they want.

For death’s sake when we try to do the trade-off we become useless. Guard is very supportive but they can successfully sacrifice that for a burst playstyle, necro can sacrifice their boon hate,chill,weakness for decent MM even war eventually drop LB for successful trade-off. Thief drops SB and it’s “strike 3 you’re out!!” thief drops d/p “wu..what is wrong with you?!” at the same time “for just 50 dollars you can now get an improved version of what you had before”.

Exciton.8942:

The current meta SA DP thief has great mobility, utility and survivability. If such build can also contest side point 1v1, it becomes pretty OP. It’s almost like another DD ele.

Remember in an 1v1 against thief, if you lose, you will surely die. The thief has enough gap closer to ensure that happen. However, if the thief loses, he can always leave and find a chance somewhere else.

Thief has always been the No.1 WvW roaming class. This says a lot in its potential of 1v1ing. It’s just that in conquest mode. Thief excels in other areas that it’s worth giving up some personal fighting power for.

Leave WvW out of this. Your last sentence is strange to me there is no way of trading those areas for personal fighting power because you become useless and more than usual thanks to “he who knows his name”. The same applies when trying to move away from d/p the few condition,venom and dual pistols thieves became instinct in just a few days post patch they are now in unbalanced land WvW which we will not mention anymore.

babazhook.6805:

Sagat.3285:

babazhook.6805:

Again this would be a detriment to a condition build. Contrary to claims made here that it harms condition builds I used one throughout beta.

1>SOM procs on dodge and provides continous healing.

2>The trait doing damage was very useful against Mesmers allowing me to kill clones as I dodged.

These two factors are far more useful to a condition build than is those few times one needs to dodge while stealthed.

I would also point out that I have often chased down thieves using uncatchable while stealthed. It gives away your position.

Again bad idea.

SoM is trash there is no excuse to use it unless you’re in PvE where anything works. If “he who knows his name” didn’t put CiS next to S.Rej dealing with mesmer wouldn’t be so harsh it’s not like thief lacks close cleave. How is the placement of Uncatchable related to it? You throw the dagger but they can’t target you simple, you either evaded like a good player or trolled and wasted your endurance.

Was the build you tried a ballerina thief?

I really prefer not to cleave clones so as to avoid the on kill conditions that occur. The range in Impaling lotus is greater then any cleave and as I dodge through them the evade from the dodge helps to avoid on kill effects. 600 radius is further than a cleave.

As to SOM being trash there are more game modes than PvP. SOM works fine in Wvw and many thieves use it. Some people prefer to try things for themselves rather then just read some “expert” proclaim what is trash and what is not trash. I kind of liked doing damage when I dodged, evading damage when I dodged and healing damage when I dodged all at once. It worked quite well for me and especailly when there more than one enemy and I am not stealthing.

Play YOUR build. Ridicule any that do not play your build if that makes you feel better but please do not presume to tell me what works and does not work.

There is no on kill traits for mesmer clones they’ve all been removed. How can you say you don’t want to kill them but used killing them as a excuse for the damage portion?? Show me those many thieves that use SoM just do it. I have nothing wrong with theorycrafting and playing your own way but please don’t tell me SoM is useful especially in WvW at least PvE but not WvW it’s PvP on steroids.

This trait doesn’t erase the fact that Death Blossom is still the same unreliable evading dual skill that’s only worth using in PvE where anything works. I’m not being rude I’m giving realistic criticism. Ballerina thief is not a real thing current condition thief is hiding in WvW behind food,runes and dire, it uses p/d and that trait will be an hindrance.

Again no rudeness just pure facts.

Driften.8716:

I had high hopes after POI 31 but after playing more solo at the end of the beta weekend this about summed up how I felt about the thief and the new DD spec.

This doesn’t make sense to me. Wherever I go rogues usually are decent if not OP. Even C9’s assasin and shadow found success in PvE despite the two being high tier in PvP and C9’s PvE is not casual.

nekretaal.6485:

I still hold out hope that we’ll get a Death shroud skills 6-10

I rather not take the risk because then they have to make sure they fit for all specs,nerf some things,add some for reaper shroud and possible future shrouds.

Kravick.4906:

Pyroen.2086:

I agree completely with signet passive in Shroud but itll never happen unless signet of undeath doesnt work in Shroud. because alot of people would hate that even though I would love it.

Its 2% LF every three seconds (roughly 300 DS hp if not wearing any vitality gear at level 80). DS degenerates faster than that, even with Vital Persistence active. Its like a worse regeneration boon but for LF only. Anyone that would complain about this would be doing so just for the sake of complaining. No one takes Signet of Undeath for the LF generation.

No one takes it period lol. I don’t see usage coming yet because they balance without it for now so it could take a while to test and release I doubt they have free time for now. I still think seeing them should have been here already.

Photinous.4628:

Definitely D/D ele.

/Thread

I can see them letting us see them in less then 3 years but that’s just me being optimistic. It would be a praised and huge QoL.

babazhook.6805:

Again this would be a detriment to a condition build. Contrary to claims made here that it harms condition builds I used one throughout beta.

1>SOM procs on dodge and provides continous healing.

2>The trait doing damage was very useful against Mesmers allowing me to kill clones as I dodged.

These two factors are far more useful to a condition build than is those few times one needs to dodge while stealthed.

I would also point out that I have often chased down thieves using uncatchable while stealthed. It gives away your position.

Again bad idea.

SoM is trash there is no excuse to use it unless you’re in PvE where anything works. If “he who knows his name” didn’t put CiS next to S.Rej dealing with mesmer wouldn’t be so harsh it’s not like thief lacks close cleave. How is the placement of Uncatchable related to it? You throw the dagger but they can’t target you simple, you either evaded like a good player or trolled and wasted your endurance.

Was the build you tried a ballerina thief?