Sure, but we actually saw a period with great balance (Sept. 29 2015 —> Oct. 23 2015) and then it was rapidly taken from us. So we know what great balance there can be, and we know what we’re missing!
It should just form one ring, which changes in size for 1-5 people caught in it, up to a size slightly large than a static field at 5 people. This way it’s still a nice large cc field but at the same time you can’t loose 6+ stacks of stab if you accidentally wander into that kitten.
It’s not a nice large CC field, it is a nice large CC circle which poses no problems for anyone trapped inside it because they would have enough room to freely dodge around. Hunter’s Ward doesn’t need changes, stability in WvW needs changes.
Well you “may” be in luck. Among the leaked patch notes (on reddit) was the change to stab where you can now lose a maximum of only one stack per second. So if you’ve got 3 stacks on you, you’re guaranteed unimpeded movement for at least 3 seconds… regardless of how much CC is thrown at you.
Nice try but I disagree with both of your classes so far. I want to see nerfs to elite specs are part of a balance. That’s the biggest problem with the game right now.
No, That is an insane amount of work it wont happen (its almost a gaurentee not to).
Your talking about reworked every math value in the expansion, from gear to mobs, to bosses to damage, and so on. You might as well forget that position.
If it’s not done, the game will be a skeleton before the next expansion. Nothing is challenging because HoT elites are faceroll simple to play. So much so that someone playing a HoT spec poorly will still outperform a well-played core build.
Player skill has to matter. In order to accomplish that, HoT specs must be nerfed heavily. If that requires re-balancing raids a bit, so be it. The HoT zones will be fine without changes even if HoT specs are nerfed.
Hi, I haven’t played since we had only solo and team queue. These win rates seem really high comparing to before, are these what you achieve with your premade team?
Not sure who you’re talking to, but the vast majority those games were played solo-que, though a few tiers were completed while duo-queing and less trio-queing. That being said, I can’t recommend anyone play warrior, or any core specs at all. It really is an uphill battle. When I tried core warrior in legendary division this evening I got absolutely spanked.
Necro does twice the damage of other classes because of power/codition combination amulets, which is why i suggested that there should only be 1 stay on amulets, not 2-3.
Have you even played necro or bothered to check the post-match combat log? It does not due twice the damage.
Can you post your gw2 efficiency data? I’m interested in just how many matches you’ve played, because it’s getting really hard to see where you’re coming from.
But it’s def taller, and this is just a suggestion. Hill to the bone aoe spam and cc at the same time. Dude. Can’t wait for necros to be nerfed, and revs are broken as kitten; still In your opinion tweaking sundering leap would be too much. Man the double standards.
I don’t have any double standards. I’ve been the main proponent for nerfing condi reaper for months now. Check my post history if you don’t believe me.
Warrior has always been a one trick pony. Just that one trick has changed over the years. From 100 blades sniping folks, to stunlocking folks, to stun 100 blading folks hammer gs, to hammer longbow shouting, to just rampage spam, to now whatever it is.
The same can be said for many classes. One of the most popular and OP builds in PvP atm, Condi reaper, is arguably much less dynamic of a class than warrior. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side.
Difficulty was increased with hot and elites were designed with that in mind…
Players want tougher and tougher content, and max level characters need to be up to the task….
Also, this game needs more viable and competitive builds.
1) PvP difficulty went way down with the introduction of elites because the skillfloor/cap for the elites is much lower than the core specs.
2) PvE issue. Not applicable here.
3) There have never been fewer viable builds in PvP…HoT killed build diversity.
So core professions need to be improved and on par with elites.
Sure it is, because balancing is not done separately. And when balance is done separately, core professions will still need to be improved and on par with elites.
So core professions need to be improved and on per with elites.
I don’t follow, how did you reach this conclusion (in bold)?
Well, the devs aren’t going to gut elite specs, and I’ll let you think why from our conversation.
What..what kind of forum post is this? Are you Socrates doling out wisdom? Thanks for the laugh, anyways.
@megilandil, agreed.
This might help… How exactly did hot kill build diversity?
Scrappers, Tempests, and Druids have over the top group support/personal survivability in the current PvP builds.
Revenant and Reaper have very easily landed, over the top pressure while still having a good amount of defensive utility.
Continuum split Moa morph & Portal is really just the last viable profession here, I mean Chronomancer.
Looking on the bright side, they’re all equally overpowered.
The only problem is that every build that players have been using for 3 years is dead. We traded a ton of builds for a few next-level builds, it pretty much killed diversity.
Let’s just think of all the top meta builds that used to be playable, right before HoT launched.
The people who politely request that everything be nerfed, they probably just want to be able to play some of these builds again:
Rampage Warrior
D/F Fire & Arcana Eles
D/D Earth & Arcana Eles
Burn Guardian
Bunker Guardian
Mantra Mesmer
PU Mesmer
Power Grenade Rifle Engi
Signet Classic Necro
Shadow Arts Medic Thief
S/D Acro Thief
And the patch before that
Cele Engi
Condi Engi
DPS Meditation Guard
Shoutbow Warrior
Power Necro
Non-Meta builds that actually came close, like Resbot warrior, Staff ele, Fresh Air ele, Static Discharge engi, Hambow Warrior.
It’s not just about builds either, at some point we shot to balance teamfight strategies with skirmish strategies, having to sacrifice battle strength to get portal/moa, and keeping some higher risk/reward builds in the mix instead of 5 self-sustained super-soldiers.
For the first time we added traits and an entire new profession but we kissed goodbye every build that we’ve found fun over the years, as well as Thief/Warrior/Guardian. I think later in 2014 until October 2015 is the period that set the bar for PvP profession balance in this game. Balance has improved so much since the Expansion came out, but we’re still so far from being where we were.
Compare that last statement to my post earlier in this thread:
We already have a baseline balance to work around with the core specs (which peaked from Sept. 29-Oct 23rd of 2015), something which has never occurred since HoT and elite spec release.
Well it’s reassuring somehow to at least see that I’m not alone in this boat. You see I’m not really concerned about pretty titles or fancy wings. I play this game as a hobby, to change my mind and because I actually like playing PvP. Nothing forces me to play. I don’t care about a few losses here and there or not acquiring Legendary tier, in all fairness. It’s just extremely frustrating to lose so many matches in a row, all with pretty much no chance at all. Some people say “get better” – however, it seems in many cases, it doesn’t matter how well I rotate, how many 1v1’s/2v2’s/2v3’s even that I win. If the team you’re paired with is completely overwhelmed by the other team, there’s absolutely no fun in that. Only frustration.
Sometimes you just have an off night. It happens and it sucks. If I lose a few in a row I log an alt account on a different build. It puts you in a different mindset with a different pool of players, and usually ends up turning around my whole night/mood around.
As funny as this sounds, I was pugged in legendary with a zerker ele who absolutely wrecked. I don’t know what kind of skill that requires but our opponents weren’t pushovers. Don’t ask me how he did it, but it worked.
Was he fresh air s/f? From my experience its still very good if played correctly and the other team doesnt have an ele lol
I wish I could tell you, but I don’t remember. I just know that we had a cleric tempest, the zerker tempest, and the opposing team did in fact have a cleric tempest.
Difficulty was increased with hot and elites were designed with that in mind…
Players want tougher and tougher content, and max level characters need to be up to the task….
Also, this game needs more viable and competitive builds.
1) PvP difficulty went way down with the introduction of elites because the skillfloor/cap for the elites is much lower than the core specs.
2) PvE issue. Not applicable here.
3) There have never been fewer viable builds in PvP…HoT killed build diversity.
So core professions need to be improved and on par with elites.
Sure it is, because balancing is not done separately. And when balance is done separately, core professions will still need to be improved and on par with elites.
So core professions need to be improved and on per with elites.
I don’t follow, how did you reach this conclusion (in bold)?
Well, the devs aren’t going to gut elite specs, and I’ll let you think why from our conversation.
What..what kind of forum post is this? Are you Socrates doling out wisdom? Thanks for the laugh, anyways.
As funny as this sounds, I was pugged in legendary with a zerker ele who absolutely wrecked. I don’t know what kind of skill that requires but our opponents weren’t pushovers. Don’t ask me how he did it, but it worked.
I’ve had a max size Charr Warrior since early access days and liked him because I felt it added an intimidation factor.
Nowadays though I’m trying to get better at dueling and pvp solo queue and I keep wondering if the fact I’m such a big target is giving me a disadvantage? Is there a reason everyone seems to of transferred over to only playing humans and asura, or is this purely for aesthetic reasons?
I would just stick with your Charr if you like it. Many folks play with standard models, and those that don’t can probably read asuran animations just as well as Charr animations.
Difficulty was increased with hot and elites were designed with that in mind…
Players want tougher and tougher content, and max level characters need to be up to the task….
Also, this game needs more viable and competitive builds.
1) PvP difficulty went way down with the introduction of elites because the skillfloor/cap for the elites is much lower than the core specs.
2) PvE issue. Not applicable here.
3) There have never been fewer viable builds in PvP…HoT killed build diversity.
So core professions need to be improved and on par with elites.
Sure it is, because balancing is not done separately. And when balance is done separately, core professions will still need to be improved and on par with elites.
So core professions need to be improved and on per with elites.
I don’t follow, how did you reach this conclusion (in bold)?
So basically guardian using marauders will have insane burn damage, the same healing as an ele using clerics, permanent protection at 30%, enough condi cleanse to be virtually immune….. so God mode pretty much. Oh and why does a heavy armor class get 30% while ele a light armor get 10-15? It can’t be because of range as an ele using dagger is melee range. Did you think of how that would affect core ele such as leveling up before you can use tempest. Unlike other light armors it doesn’t have stealth, clones, or minions it survives by boons and sustain
At the moment with my guardian burn build, I do 5-6k Ticks. However, that being said there is a huge disadvantage being played here. Necros do way more damage. Think of it like this.
Burning is an alpha strike that can be cleansed (if your fast enough).
So because necro puts out more condi pressure the answer is God mode for guardian? They are also a light armor class, slow, not great at healing and vulnerable to focus fire. Using one classes strengths while completely ignoring their weaknesses doesn’t justify a complete overpower of your favorite class.
BTW you completely bypassed my original questions
Buffing Burn to be competitive to other specs is not God Mode, its called balance.
You cannot build burn guard, and get the healing these specs have, because the specs you need for healing is 3 specific ones, 2 of which are different the ones burn guard depends on, thus its not possible to build a guard with the healing potential, and damage rates in that capacity.
I havent ignored anything, I choose not to start a debate of trivia positions.
There used to be a dalance design philosophy that gw2 used, which was: you can never have it all. You were never able to take all of the traits that would make your build perfect. That is really the type of balance we need to strive for if we want to balance the elite specs.
So aoe burning and cripple is not aoe spam?? Because that’s what this skill currently does. And warrior should have access to as many CC as possible, because that’s our job. Giving us condi instead of aoe is kinda meh, just my opinion though.
And nothing is getting buffed they will just switch one for the other.
The only thing worse than AOE spam is AOE CC spam…you’re asking for more of the very thing that’s messed up post-HoT PvP. Also, CC is not your sole job as a warrior, although it does remain a strength, to this day. How many different warrior meta’s have you played through? Warrior is not a 1-trick CC pony.
If anyone should have access to more cc, stab, and protection, it’s us.
I highlighted “if” because the answer to that is: no one should have access to more cc, stab, and protection. Warrior is one of the better designed/balanced classes—everything else needs to be nerfed to be brought back down to the level of the warrior.
If folks are as good as they say there are, they are free to make an f2p account and prove it.
We had the cases. If you want, I can search for the post. First account ruby, second account legendary.
I saw that too, but based on what I’ve been reading here, it counts as a minority case compared with people making f2p accounts and mimicking their performance on their main. We also weren’t given information on whether they changed classes on the f2p, and solo/team status on each account, so drawing conclusions from this 1 incomplete data point isn’t meaningful.
To be clear, I’m not arguing that the S3 matchmaking system shouldn’t be changed (newer players being stomped isn’t great for the population), but I do take issue with the sense of entitlement so many players have (many posting on these forums) of advancing through the leagues well beyond their skill level, just for the sake of “advancing”. That being said, there are poor players at every division.
Your balance suggestions across all of your threads focus around buffing everything that’s weak (and weird buffs to things that are already incredibly strong) instead of nerfing everything that’s overpowered. This is a poor direction for the game to go because it promotes mindless spam for both DPS and sustain.
For example:
Your quickdraw change kills the trait and makes no sense—it’s a bad version of warrior’s fast-hands in a GM spot; what? Your shortbow trait change is just making it a worse longbow, and SB doesn’t need cooldown reduction at all since the cooldowns are already so low. Your Beastly Warden and Zephyr’s speed is just straight unnecessary power creep on two of the best GM traits available to the ranger. You want Troll unguent to just a better warrior healing signet? I could go on, but these changes look like they were made by someone who doesn’t play the ranger class, and I’m sorry if that sounds harsh but I intend this as constructive feedback.
It’s a really great effort and a good thing you’re trying to do, but I 100% disagree with the underlying philosophy behind the changes (i.e., buffs, sometimes nonsensical ones) based on my experience (4k games, 1 legend account and 1 diamond account).
its more posible a power up of the other clases than a general nerf or worse, a rotation of classes OP :
Anet dont want to split skills pve/pvp and for the raid contents a nerf will be dramatic
No way. More stuff is underpowered at the moment than overpowered. Almost every single core utility, traitline, and weapon is underpowered compared to their elite spec counterparts—that means that, what, 15% of the game is currently OP and dominating the PvP scene? Nerfing the OP elite spec stuff would not only be healthier for the gameplay, but easier to do.
Especially since we already have a baseline balance to work around with the core specs (which peaked from Sept. 29-Oct 23rd of 2015), something which has never occurred since HoT and elite spec release.
Your balance suggestions across all of your threads focus around buffing everything that’s weak (and weird buffs to things that are already incredibly strong) instead of nerfing everything that’s overpowered. This is a poor direction for the game to go because it promotes mindless spam for both DPS and sustain.
For example:
Your quickdraw change kills the trait and makes no sense—it’s a bad version of warrior’s fast-hands in a GM spot; what? Your shortbow trait change is just making it a worse longbow, and SB doesn’t need cooldown reduction at all since the cooldowns are already so low. Your Beastly Warden and Zephyr’s speed is just straight unnecessary power creep on two of the best GM traits available to the ranger. You want Troll unguent to just a better warrior healing signet? I could go on, but these changes look like they were made by someone who doesn’t play the ranger class, and I’m sorry if that sounds harsh but I intend this as constructive feedback.
It’s a really great effort and a good thing you’re trying to do, but I 100% disagree with the underlying philosophy behind the changes (i.e., buffs, sometimes nonsensical ones) based on my experience (4k games, 1 legend account and 1 diamond account).
They can’t self res with gyro. What probably happened is that he rallied off transferred conditions when a teammate died. There’s been a bug around for ages that allows you to rally off of teammates if you have dealt enough damage to them through conditions you put on an enemy that get transferred. It’s an issue with how damage sources are handled that’s been around for ages.
Either that or someone stealth ressed him, but I think the condi transfer bug is the more likely thing here, since reapers are so popular right now and usually bring 3+ condi transfers.
I’m familiar with that bug, but it was a 1v1 and no one else participated, so I don’t see it working. Thanks for the info on the gyro though!
Worst part of playing a profession that’s not ‘meta’ is how you always end up with at least 1 person on your team who will spend the entire game watching every step you take just waiting to blame you for something.
I made legendary primarily as Thief and after hitting that, I played around with Ele for a while. I played terribly with ele, but I never had anyone call me out on any mistake I made while playing ele.
Meanwhile, I got at least some criticism on any random rotation I made on most games I played as thief, even when I ended up making game winning plays that turned the tides on score.
Yeah, I feel you there. I could make the dumbest plays on a necro without comment, but be carrying the games hard at far on a warrior (e.g., distracting 3v1 while keeping point contested to ensure home/mid victories) and be called out for it, even after a successful disengage without dying. Another time, we were snowballing the mid teamfight at graveyard, I saw our ranger had eyes on home, so I disengaged far to get the free decap. Our mesmer had called dibs on the far point (but wasn’t going when they needed to), so I was reprimanded by the team for “not being a team player”. A win is a win, though.
I downed a scrapper offpoint and was letting him bleed out. I wasn’t paying attention to his health closely (watching minimap) but I whacked him a few times to prevent his downstate #4 heal. Then, after a few seconds he just got up and ran away. Did he self-rezz with the gyro?
The last thing this game needs is more CC from classes that have access to already absurd power creep potential via their elite spec.
Fixed for you.
You took what I said and made it way worse, actually. You’re advocating for powercreep instead of nerfing the elites down to the level of the core specs (and warrior). That’s a poor direction for the game to go because it promotes CC and AOE spam with stupidly low “HoT” CD’s.
@psizone@wolfric: i appreciate you guys’ response, made me think and re-evaluate a lot!
@mister fluffkin: I played rogue in world of warcraft for 4 years. In wow there’s no “diamond/legend” ranks as in gw2, everyone’s got their own personal rating and a number. I was ranked #12 in the US in season 6.1 (8 months ago or so), and rogue is the highest skill cap class followed by mage. Unlike some rogues who play Subtlety spec and are more of support and rapid bursts, I played a 1shot combo and i was able to 1v4 kids in a matter of seconds. I enjoyed what I did there so much, so now that I’m attempting gw2 i’m looking for something similar to it. I know gw2 is higher skillcap (or at least i can tell, by how everything has to be timed unlike wow many things are spammable), but I want something similar to what i’ve done for a long time because it’s what brings joy to my heart when i’m playing.
Sounds like you are looking for WvW roaming if you wanna be a solo hero. You’re not going to find that in conquest on a day-to-day basis. Winning a 2v1 is does happen from time-to-time if you’re really good and they’re really bad, but you can’t make a build around it. I would recommend watching some PvP youtube videos or twitch streaming to get a sense for what to expect, and choose a class based on your desired role/playstyle. Just take every class into a hotjoin and see what feels right.
-17 games
-0 losses
-One of the games we were outnumbered 4v5 from the start.
-4 pips from sapphire so far
-Pressure from a Rev or a Reaper annihilate this build.
Conclusion: Viable at low tiers. Vastly inferior to cleric tempest.
Hey, in case anyone was wondering, I ended up getting the vanilla bunker guard to Sapphire easily, but I found that I had limited carry-potential because I wasn’t playing DPS. I ended up doing Sapphire-Diamond on core warrior. Unfortunately vanilla bunker guard remains a poor-man’s cleric tempest.
Just got my alt core warrior to Diamond solo/duo, never had any issues with rage. Most people just ask “what are warriors running these days?”
Sometimes people at the start make a comment like “Oh no a warrior” and I always responded: “95% winrate as warrior, if we lose it’s not on me.” That usually gives them a good laugh and some confidence in you, which typically ended in a win. Good luck, man.
Don’t bother LOL he’s not gonna be there. I guarantee :P
Those 3 months were rather long eh.
Bad b8 m8 I r8 0/8.
Uh huh. Nice photshop. I haven’t heard any top players, including me, complain about MMR. Must be because they are,you know, good or something. Clearly a l2p issue. When only bads complain about MMR..on second thought..yea I agree with the SELF induced MMR hell..get on my level scrubs.
Photoshop…? You realize anyone can click on your name and see your post history, right?
I do agree that chill dmg should be changed so that it only does 50% on targets above half HP again, and Anet really should take off the boon corrupt on scepter 1, but considering boon corrupt and conditions are the main things necro is taken to pvp for, it should still be viable, its not like we do much else.
What would you say happens when you fill your build with condi-clears? Does it essentially make you unkillable through condi’s, or do they still get through?
They still get through. All cleanses are on longer cooldowns than condi application. The idea that someone should be able to cleanse 100% of condi’s is ridiculous; condi’s would be useless if that were the case.
The way condi works is fine. The issue is in the builds that use them.
1) Since a few post-HoT buffs, Reaper has much-improved boon corrupts and chill damage that is over-the-top. Fix these things and condi reaper is suddenly balanced.
2) Condi mesmer has certainly never been OP, especially since the release of HoT…the introduction of new amulets didn’t suddenly make this class way OP. Rather, bunker mesmer was nerfed and this turned out to be the next best thing. Mesmer condi application is actually quite balanced—-it’s simply the double Moa that turns fights. If continuum split was incompatible with elite utilities, this condi class would be fine.
That’s really it. All that being said, these are the two classes which can really take advantage of the mercenary amulet to the fullest, so there might be something there.
you couldn’t dodge through staff or hammer ward, why should you be able to dodge through LB ward?
don’t stand in the aoe radius by the time the skill finishes channeling, simple as that. the skill is only a problem in pirate ship meta wvw, which is a game mode/play style nothing’s balance should revolve around.
I don’t mean dodge through the ward once it’s landed, I’m talking about dodging the final hit of the skill.
I think I speak for the entire community when I say that the consensus is to *nerf the elite specs already.
NO! You DON’T speak for the entire community. Quite the opposite. Why the F would you want nerf’s? Who want’s to feel like they have the power of a wet noodle?
I enjoy the Elite specs. Buff those that lafg behind. Don’t penalise those that are already in a nice spot kitten .
It seems to me that most of the frustration, complaining, horror stories and quitting all comes back to the same thing, pip loss.
This system of losing progress on something you’ve worked hard for is not present in any other area of the game, and is hurting PvP. I propose that pip loss be removed from the tracks up until diamond. Currently the different tiers have no bearing on skill at all and are just leading to endless frustration. Make the tiers a secondary reward structure that only advances upon wins, but does not lose anything on losses.
This will instantly solve many of the complaints and frustrations that players have.
Once you reach diamond tier the system can resume how it currently is and still allow for the competition and extra advancement. Matchmaking will return to being based on MMR alone and not mixed in with the various tiers.
There is already a system in place for this: unranked. If someone is frustrated at losing pips, they are free to play unranked, where they can’t lose any.
This is condescending, because you willfully ignoring the fact that the OP is proposing this because he want his legendary backpiece as soon as possible.
Fyi: the OP mainly pve in case you didn’t check his history.
I didn’t check his history—I’m not sure it matters. And I’m not actually ignoring the fact that the OP wants his legendary backpack. I really wish him the best in acquiring it. Rather, the OP is ignoring the fact that the legendary backpack must be earned in a competitive ladder system, and losing pips is part of that. Moreover, the OP’s suggestion directly undermines the whole point of a skill-based ladder. If we want to improve season 3 to make this the case, the OP’s suggestion is 2 steps in the wrong direction.
It seems to me that most of the frustration, complaining, horror stories and quitting all comes back to the same thing, pip loss.
This system of losing progress on something you’ve worked hard for is not present in any other area of the game, and is hurting PvP. I propose that pip loss be removed from the tracks up until diamond. Currently the different tiers have no bearing on skill at all and are just leading to endless frustration. Make the tiers a secondary reward structure that only advances upon wins, but does not lose anything on losses.
This will instantly solve many of the complaints and frustrations that players have.
Once you reach diamond tier the system can resume how it currently is and still allow for the competition and extra advancement. Matchmaking will return to being based on MMR alone and not mixed in with the various tiers.
There is already a system in place for this: unranked. If someone is frustrated at losing pips, they are free to play unranked, where they can’t lose any.
…only thing I would change on LB#5 would be that a good timed Dodge right before Hunter’s Ward procs would “dodge” the ward itself, placing the player out of the trap…
+1 to this. It makes no sense that the ward can’t be dodged.
I was making a point at how vastly different the 2 are. If you’ve played warrior for more than 5 minutes you’d understand how vital it is for us in the current meta to have double EP.
We can both point that out: you’re locked out of all of your skills using elixer S, unlike EP. I’ve played warrior for much longer than 5 minutes, and I still feel that defensive passive procs should be removed from the game. It’s not like I’d delete the trait and leave it empty!
Also @ Denaria above, this is not a “balance warrior thread,” and shouldn’t be merged with anything. The title is a loss leader.
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