Guild Wars 2

Zeem.2564:

There’s definitely something wrong with their system at its core if they need to cripple one weaponset just to balance the others.

This is definitely the issue I see. I’m all for adding/modifying traits and skills to promote build diversity, but it should never be at the cost of an existing build unless the build in question is totally OP and is in need of a nerf. That was not the case for dual pistols as it wasn’t OP by any stretch of the imagination. It was fun and different. Underused perhaps, but that should call for devs to look into ways to improve it, not cripple it to near uselessness.

I’m sure the devs are reading these forums. Of this, I have no doubt. But doing things like shouting “Hey devs! Why do you never read these!? Post something! Respond to me!” isn’t going to get a response. That would only encourage said behavior.

So I don’t really expect Anet to come and post anything around here. Instead, I hope they are at least paying mind to our concerns and considering ways to alleviate them.

babazhook.6805:

I would suggest that people wanting to see Ricochet return , not resort to hyperbole. Every single professions thread critiquing a given skills change or demise does the same claiming it will ruin the class and means the end of a specific build.

This does not help make our case.

The removal of Ricochet is not the death of P/P. It is a diminishing of the same for no real reason and has an impact on the weapons utility as a skill which it severely lacks and that utility was the AOE damage.

You make a good point, but I’ll admit it’s hard not to say that this kills P/P, especially because of how well it synced with Pistol Mastery (obviously), Signet of Malice, and Invigorating Precision. Ricochet provided more than just AoE damage. It provided much-needed sustainability (which also suffers even more with the removal of Feline Grace as well) and even a bit of CC as well with Body Shot and Headshot. Above all else, though, it was fun.

Without Ricochet, many of these builds are indeed dead (or at least severely crippled) because they relied so heavily on that multi-target bounce. As I’ve said a few times already, I only had to run around Silverwastes for a bit to find that out. I’m currently running P/P + S/P, but I’m probably gonna be forced to substitute one of those sets for shortbow because I don’t feel like I contribute very much anymore… and that is exactly what shouldn’t happen with these patches. It severely hinders build diversity, which completely contradicts Anet’s original “play how you want” mantra.

freeman.7315:

You misunderstand me. This was just to prove a point to people who say p/p was not viable ever. I agree completely on the Ricochet issue,that it robes us of much needed AoE with this build. This screenshot was taken quite some time ago.

Oh okay, my bad. I didn’t realize you were referring to those that said dual pistols were NEVER viable. Sorry about that. :P

freeman.7315:

For all non believers that say p/p was not viable.
Can you do this with daggers? I don’t think so

I think you’re missing the point. We’re not saying that it can’t dish out good damage. We’re saying that Ricochet provided much needed AoE mob damage, which is very important in PvE where you are primarily encountered by mobs.

That kind of damage is nice and all, but it won’t get you very far in places like Silverwastes where you really need to be able to attack more than one enemy.

babazhook.6805:

Do not get me wrong. I will miss Ricochet as much as any as it added excellent utility to a weapon set that lacks in it and as stated worked very well against Mobs in PVe. I still do not understand why it removed.

Its current iteration does have upside and in particular when wants to stay out of AOE such as that being spammed by Engies and kill at range. Its single target damage against Champions in the open world is significant and that range allows a measure of safety from those one shot kills a Champion can unleash.

To add to your point, I’ve been hearing some people saying that dual pistols aren’t that bad in PvP (although I think they still wouldn’t exactly recommend it). I’m okay with that, but from a PvE perspective, I feel that the loss of Ricochet is really going to put us at a disadvantage where mobs are extremely prevalent.

I don’t like having shortbow as my only ranged AoE option when there really was nothing wrong with Ricochet.

freeman.7315:

Seabreeze.8437:

They actually did give us an answer. Take your pick.

“It’s not there.”
“Too much RNG.”
“Reduced the purity of pistols.”

I didn’t say they were good answers.

I do hope they can do better then that. I know they can,but it seems they don’t want to.Or don’t care to. And that is what annoys me. Removing a trait,and one that was very important not just for a p/p build,but from what i hear other builds as well,just like that. With those lame “answers” as the only explanation. I don’t and won’t accept that,and Anet risks of disappointing a very large amount of their players if they keep it at that.

I hear ya. I hate to say it, but I get the feeling they just flat out don’t care for the weapon set. The excuses answers they half-heartedly threw out at us were not reassuring to say the least.

ThrynDrakarian.3179:

Also “purity of pistols” is a laugh, given engineers can shoot poison darts and flame and glue from theirs, and our shortbow lets us bounce arrows between people. As for the RNG, that’s why it was fun for D/P, for bouncing random between targets.

This is exactly why I don’t buy that “purity of pistols” nonsense. I mean, if they have other plans for that trait, then fine, I’ll be pleasantly surprised when I see it return. I just wish they wouldn’t give us these borderline rude responses by simply stating “it’s not there.” At least give us something…

As a dual pistol user, I feel your pain. But fret not, my friend, because dual pistols have been rendered useless, so there’s no need for feline grace! All is right in Tyria!

(laughter that devolves into crying)

They actually did give us an answer. Take your pick.

“It’s not there.”
“Too much RNG.”
“Reduced the purity of pistols.”

I didn’t say they were good answers.

Brewergamer.8357:

One of the selling points of GW2 was you get to use the build you want to use.. not be forced to use mainstream builds, which is what this change does. Maybe we want to have a nice lenient build we can use to tag mobs in pve, we shouldn’t be forced to use streamline builds. We need Ricochet back.

This is how I feel on the matter. I don’t doubt that you can still use dual pistols, but now you’re kind of forced into only one way to build for it, which is a huge turn-off. My load-out is P/P + S/P and I thoroughly enjoyed using both as mob killers. I don’t want to have to substitute my dual pistols for a shortbow just to have mob-tagging capability, it just wouldn’t feel right, y’know?

It all goes back to their mantra of “play how you want” because with changes like this it’s starting to feel more like “play how we want you to play,” and that’s what is frustrating me about this whole situation.

Shimekiri.1580:

A lot of you seem to be talking about PvP, when its PvE where the build suffers. Horribly. The removal of Ricochet practically killed it, since with its removal we lost all AoE capability, AoE CC/interrupt/debuff capability and we took a massive hit to our self-healing via Signet of Malice, making it completely useless in the current state of the build. For singletarget the build works fine. For AoE, which 99% of PvE is, its in a terribad condition.

^ This. Very much this.

In response to babazhook, I know I was exaggerating about the damage part. I still do tons of damage with my load-out, but I was referring primarily to my mob DPS. Since P/P has been turned into a single-target weapon, I feel my contribution to events and mob killing has taken a significant dive, and all I needed was to play one session of Silverwastes to find that out.

I think the aoe capabilities (not to mention the range, which I hate how it’s lumped with ankle shots) that Ricochet brings to the PvE scene are too important to just simply remove it the way Anet did, with little more explanation than “It’s not there” and “too much RNG/reduced purity of pistol.”

I won’t argue that it still hits hard, babaz, but from a PvE perspective, Ricochet was above all else… fun.

tsawr.7905:

The only place P/P is viable is open world PvE, so you can pretty much just use any trait you want.

It’s not even viable in open world PvE anymore, dude. Without the 10% damage boost from Pistol Mastery and the aoe damage and range boost from Ricochet, you might as well charge at your enemy with a pillow. At least with a pillow you can probably smother them to death before your bullets would have any effect.

jonG.8369:

Quite sad…I finally logged onto my dual wielding gunslinger today, ported into SW to do some events. A group of us were defending Indigo fort from the inside. The doors were breached and in comes a group of Modrem. The Rangers standing next me immediately open up with Longbow Barrage AoE’s followed by Rapid Fire arrows that PIERCE deep into the oncoming enemies. And there I was, the lowly P/P thief, attacking a SINGLE target. By the time it was focused down, and I went to tag another enemy in the Zerg, the rangers pretty much had them taken care of.

Same thing at Vinewrath. Single target P/P just doesn’t get the job done. It was rather embarrassing tbh.

Devs, Please reconsider the changes you’ve made here. Either by making our projectiles pierce (like so many other classes have access to or bring back the bounce. Baseline or throw it into Trickery where it used to be.

I feel your pain, my friend. I did the same exact thing on the day of the patch just to see how bad it was, and let me just say… it was bad. No more bullets bouncing from mordrem to mordrem, no more group interrupts to menders, no more aoe killing, and definitely less survivability since you get far less health back from SoM and IP given that dual pistols are now a single-target-only weapon. Needless to say, I felt pretty useless tapping a single enemy while everyone else was splashing down the DPS on whole groups. If I wanna be effective, I have to swap to my sword/pistol and get way up close, which in Silverwastes isn’t a very good idea for a thief.

This was a really, really horrible—even game breaking—change. I’ve said it half a million times already, but I hope beyond hope that Anet sees what a mistake it was to remove this trait and brings dual pistols back into the light of Tyria, starting with the return of Ricochet.

Whatever skills the staff gets, I hope there’s at least a flashy, pole-vault jump that you can direct for aoe damage on landing similar to engi rifle blast jump.

Tabootrinket.2631:

It’s true, but having to use this trait and its traitline JUST to have a longer range which is the only advantage of pistol over other weapon set right now is wrong.

Right now pistol has no aoe, so why using p/p instead of shortbow ? The answer should be : the range.
Either you choose the range, or the aoe when it comes to baseline. That’s how the decision should be made.

THEN should come the traits.
And we should have our ricochet back.

Then again, range baseline is my own view of things (as a hardcore pistol user). Haven’t seen the situation with the eyes of a shortbow user.

I don’t care if it’s trait or not, but if range should be a trait it should go with ricochet as it was meant to be.

Agreed. I think the range increase should be baseline. Otherwise, it should stay with Ricochet. PvE players really need the aoe that comes from that trait.

A few people are saying that dual pistols are fine in PvP, and that’s all well and good, but why did it have to be rendered near useless in PvE? I mean, we don’t even have a choice in the matter anymore whether to spec for Ricochet or not.

I really don’t wanna have to switch my trick-shot gunslinger asura to a…… shortbow… slinger… thing… whatever….. just to be effective in PvE.

James Quall.6029:

It actually showed up in the first post.

Yeah I know. I tried to ignore it. Oh well.

I get what you’re saying about how the other elites don’t have traits for existing weapons tied to them though. I guess we’re all just trying to make sense of such a nonsensical decision. There really was no logical reason why dual pistols got the boot.

And no, I absolutely don’t buy that “too random/reduced the purity of pistol” excuse. It’s complete and utter BS. Hell, bouncing arrows from a short bow makes less sense than trick-shooting bullets to bounce around enemies (not trying to bash short bow… just trying to use it as a comparison).

Velimere.7685:

Guys, this is an official forum! Stop playing with your P/Ps!

Sigh… I suppose this joke was bound to show up sooner or later.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who loved the dual pistol thief build. It really is a crying shame what Anet did to this weapon set. I sincerely hope they review this thread—and others like it—and work to not only bring these vital traits back, but also make dual pistols a stronger build overall.

Unless of course, these traits are already planned for the elite spec, but now I’m not so sure given the recent uncovering of the background art for a thief trait line that strongly suggests they are getting a staff.

Don’t get me wrong, melee staff for thief sounds really cool (on a side note, I hope they have a cool pole-vault jump move similar to engi’s rifle blast jump), but I don’t know if our beloved pistol traits would be found there. Though… I suppose it could be done, depending on the theme of the specialization (like if it’s a highly acrobatic, flashy, show-off style, then I could see ricocheting bullets being a part of it).

I hope they reveal the thief elite soon, but I’m more eager to get our dual pistol traits back!

Wait, I haven’t booted up the game yet, but are you telling me that you can’t respec your traits until you hit lvl 80???

lol, this just keeps getting better and better…

The consume conditions change is the second dumbest thing I’ve ever seen (the first being the destruction of the P/P thief who wasn’t even overpowered by any stretch of the imagination). Totally counter-intuitive given that it’s supposed to… oh you know… CLEANSE YOUR CONDITIONS! But hey, why not make it add 10 stacks of vulnerability? That sounds like an awesome change that I can’t wait to try out for myself!

As interested as I am to see the brand new Lion’s Arch, I’m just too depressed that my main gunslinger thief I built from day one will be rendered useless due to the apparent P/P hate Anet slammed on it.

In the past I’ve always looked forward to patches like this with excitement. This one though… sigh, I’m sorry, but I don’t think I could dread it more.

I’m happy for those that are excited for it, and I hope they have a lot of fun. For me, nah, this P/P thief destruction was just too much. Way below the belt.

For those that are saying they don’t want pistol support as an elite spec, would you rather not have it at all? Because honestly, I think there’s a better chance of Anet including it as part of a gunslinger elite spec than having them simply say, “Oops, our bad. Those super important pistol traits are baseline now. Thanks for your feedback.” I could be wrong, but that’s just my thoughts on the matter.

And also, for those that say they don’t want to use a rifle, who says you have to? Elite specializations allow you to use an exclusive weapon, but it doesn’t force you to (though I’ll admit depending on the traits that could be debatable). I currently run a P/P + S/P thief, and if I make that build work using the elite spec, then you can bet I’ll be all over it.

Whatever the case, I just want my traits back, really. They are way to vital to just drop them like that. It’s seriously make-or-break situation for P/P thieves.

Ekhetrima.9651:

Auesis.7301:

Here’s your dev answer.

Thanks for sharing this. A real shame someone from Anet couldn’t just state this on the forums to one of the many posts about it.

That statement from Jon about “reduced the purity of pistol” is nonsense.

This is the most depressing thing I’ve ever seen from the Guild Wars dev team. I’ve never dreaded an update patch until this one.

“Reduced the purity of pistol”??? Really? Are they insane? Do they even realize how useless they just made dual pistols?

Please let Ricochet, Pistol Mastery, and more firearms related traits be part of the thief’s elite specialization! Otherwise, I simply cannot believe how an entire development team thought this would be a good change.

Odyssey.2613:

jonG.8369:

Agreed. It’s no longer an option as far as I’m concerned. The very nature of dynamic events pretty much requires you to bring weapons that have reliable aoe damage in order to compete. P/P as single target?

I’m gonna go super cereal on you guys for a second here:

Not only that^ but also compounded by the fact that if you think about it, usually when one goes for dual pistols, it’s exactly because they have multiple targets.

Very much agree with jonG here. And Odyssey makes a good point in that dual pistols feel like a multi-target weapon in and of itself.

Black Frog.9274:

What’s weird is the complete dev silence on the topic. They straight up killed the P/P thief in silence.

I’m guessing this is why a lot of players—myself included—are theorizing and hoping that their silence is due to the fact that we are indeed getting a gunslinger elite specialization where these traits and more lie and they can’t say anything about the topic as it would spoil the reveal.

Whatever the case, I hope everyone makes the most out of their precious P/P builds today, as tomorrow marks the tragic end to our beloved gun-wielders.

My asura gunslinger is sad.

^ babazhook pretty much sums it up with those 3 killer points, especially point #2 since you need that sustain to keep yourself alive against mobs. For me, IP combined with SoM was vital since you are sacrificing mobility and stealth just by picking up dual pistols in the first place.

One of the biggest reasons I enjoyed my P/P build so much was because I didn’t want to play the typical cloak-and-dagger stealth assassin. Now it seems like that’s the ONLY way Anet wants you to play a thief…

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Yeah, gotta echo the fact that the dual pistol build i was rocking will be completely worthless.

Good job.

:/

I feel your pain, my friend. I feel your pain.

Zaoda.1653:

I have a feeling tribal armor has been forgotten. It’s been 6+ months o_O. Along with the revenant forum that was supposedly happening. :-/ at this rate the revenant forum will come out when the HoT expansion actually comes out, and tribal is either forgotten or coming in a year or 2 when they have time >_<

Heh, it’s been nearly a year, unless you’re counting when they specifically said they would bring it back.

I mean, since they came out and said that they’re bringing all the PvP armor sets back eventually, there’s no question that we’ll see these armors again. It’s really just a matter of… when???

Mefiq.7039:

wait. i will make screen of my engi to confirm rifle for thief.

^This.

I mean… it’s a pretty safe bet that thieves are getting a rifle, but c’mon.

Puck.9612:

Any word on ricochet for thieves? No one was complaining that P/P thieves were OP, please don’t nerf them.

Ricochet and Pistol Mastery. Both those traits are essential for making P/P thieves viable, especially in PvE. My gunslinger rocked the Silverwastes gunning down all those mordrem mobs. Ricochet also has really great synergy with Signet of Malice and Invigorating Precision, adding some much needed survivability given that you’re already sacrificing some mobility just by picking up dual pistols.

I worked really hard to make an effective, fun build for my main P/P thief. Seeing what’s going to happen to it after the patch is… just so depressing. REALLY kills my desire to play the game, especially ‘cause I’ve mained this gunslinger from the very beginning—it was my absolute favorite build.

jonG.8369:

I pretty much main a gunslinger build. I crafted 2 different sets of Ascended pistols, 1 for looks, 1 for stats and also spent several months saving up gold to purchase the Aetherized pistols back when they were somewhat affordable. Needless to say, I have lots of time and money invested into the character. Not to mention, a small person guild that is themed entirely around gunslingers and an old western theme.

Dude, that sounds really cool. I’d like to see some of your characters and how you dressed them to fit a wild west theme. I’ve got a few western/steampunk adventurers myself.

Also, I share your plight. I’ve mained a gunslinger thief from the very beginning, and these nerfs are just plain uncalled for. The real salt on the wound for me is that I didn’t even realize that the 10% pistol damage trait was cut too. P/P will basically be worthless come the 23rd.

It’s looking like a gunslinger elite spec is our only hope at this point, my friends…

Volrath.1473:

I’m copy/pasting a post of mine from another thead.

“Ricochet probably got movednto the new trate line that we know nothing about yet. One more reason to believe the new weapon will be a rifle and that the new trait line will be about ranged dps (pistols, short bow and rifle)”

At this point, Volrath… I really hope you’re right.

Yeah, Ricochet and Pistol Mastery seem to be missing. I’m sure it’s a mistake though… (nervous laugh)

Ekhetrima.9651:

Would still love to hear something about the thief pistol nerf. I’ve been hoping this was just missed in the notes, but by now I’m guessing they just don’t care.

Thief pistol has lost it damage trait (Pistol Mastery) and Ricochet which gave it added range and bounce (for additional targets). Of the 3 traits that effected this weapon, thieves only kept one of them (Ankle Shots). It is almost as if they don’t even want us to use the weapon any longer.

Were there any other weapons that actually lost range in this update?

Yeah, the treatment of P/P thieves is completely absurd. They were far from being OP in any way, yet without Pistol Mastery and Ricochet, they are next to useless.

P/P thieves have needed more love for a long time, but this is totally the opposite! What is going on, Anet? Please tell us either they’re baseline now or you have a gunslinger elite spec for us where all our firearms-related traits and buffs are hiding…

Ekhetrima.9651:

The silence from Anet on this speaks for itself. They have been correcting other omissions, but nothing for thief pistols.

We have 3 pistols traits now and only 1 starting Tuesday. We’ve lost range, bounce, and the 10% damage we had on everything is now only on crippled enemies through Ankle shots. I just don’t understand the nerf to our weakest weapon set.

Ricochet is the big issue though. I can’t imagine going back to pistols without it.

DUDE!!! I was so worked up over the Ricochet business that I didn’t even notice that our 10% damage bonus trait was gone too! What the actual F***!!? Why are they doing this to the weapon set that needed the most improvements!? Instead they’re making it almost completely worthless! This is depressing.

Okay what is going on here? Seriously.

I mean… unless this theory about some kind of gunslinger elite spec turns out to be true. Man… I sure hope so. We need our dual pistol support badly.

Please don’t destroy our pistol thieves Anet. ;_;

Still holding on to the hope that http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ricochet_ isn’t completely removed from the game.

Gone, apparently. I guess P/P was so overpowered that Anet HAD to step in and remedy the clearly broken weapon set.

We’re all hoping that such traits have been made baseline… or at the very least moved to their elite spec line.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

• Bonus Ultimate Collector’s Edition statue of Marjory and Kasmeer embracing

(rolls eyes)

Kasmeer: “Oh Margie-poo, you scared the cuddly-fluffs out of me!”

Marjory: “Don’t worry, my sweet cuppin’ cake, I’m not going anywhere without my schmoopsy poo!”

A+ scripting right there.

Puck.9612:

Jedd.9035:

Puck.9612:

Would really like to see an answer on this one. Really hoping it’s baseline.

That would make me very happy. But I’m guessing it’s going to be placed in the new elite spec. I think I’d be okay with this if that spec also replaces Steal with something else (anything else – but a signet would make me all kinds of happy).

The new elite spec should be new stuff. They shouldn’t take traits we already have and tell you that you need to give them 50 bucks to get that trait back.

Well that’s why so many of us hope that it’s going to be baseline. But I’m probably going to be getting HoT anyways, so I’ll take what I can get. That trait is just too important—especially for P/P builds—to just up and cut like that. There’s no logic to it whatsoever.

We need to know what’s going on with our Ricochet already!

@Niels

The points that you made, while valid, seem like they are geared toward PvP. I primarily play PvE, so I find Ricochet to be an invaluable trait, as you are frequently faced with mobs, especially in dungeons.

I just think Ricochet should be available to players based on their build of preference. It seems like such a huge trait to suddenly leave out.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I’m sure this is understood, but it seems like a good idea to formally say this: The update notes shared in this thread (and distributed to our fansites) were presented in unedited form. (You probably figured that out. ) As always, all game updates are subject to change while being finalized. The final notes that are presented here on the forums as the formal Update Notes will be edited before they go live. This will allow us to tidy up typos, make sure each stat is accurate, and also verify the inclusion of all elements (and the removal of any that are not going to be included).

Thank you for the update, Gaile, it’s appreciated.

I’m still very nervous about the absence of Ricochet for my main P/P thief though. I want to be excited for the trait rework, but I’m dying to know where this extremely fundamental trait is… my main since day one depends on it!

Ausfer.1853:

No more ricochet for the thief?!? WTF did p/p thieves ever do to warrant this?

This is a huge nerf to p/p on thief. I don’t understand why it was removed.

Nerf? Well, that’s putting it mildly. Most P/P builds, especially ones geared toward PvE, depend on this trait. It is arguably the most important trait for P/P thieves!

Tashigi.3159:

I don’t normally come to the forums. When I do, is usually to read news. So this is one of those times I am taking the time to post.

The P/P build I’ve used and gotten accoustomed to is essentially destroyed without Ricochet.
I really hope this was an oversight or the trait is now passive or something along those lines. Because without it, I really don’t see any point to use this build.

I welcome change. But if it’s change that essentially makes you want to stop playing a certain build/class, not so much.
Please reconsider.

My thoughts exactly. As someone who mained a P/P thief from the very beginning, and really worked to get a fun, functional build going (I do mainly PvE, including dungeons), this is extremely detrimental to me, and I sincerely hope Anet addresses this issue before the update patch goes live.

I just can’t get excited for this update… NOR Heart of Thorns because of this change. I mean, unless as I’ve stated before that the elite thief specialization is a gunslinger where Ricochet is hiding… but why can’t this trait simply be baseline as with many other professions with bouncing weapons?

Dahkeus.8243:

I mean, it sucks losing the skill, but don’t you think you’re being a bit of a drama queen on this?

Given that Ricochet was the cornerstone to making a viable P/P build… no, I don’t think we are overreacting. There was no reason for P/P thieves to take such a hard hit with this change, and I hope Anet takes notice of this and gives us back Ricochet in some way (as it has been suggested, either baseline or part of an elite spec… preferably baseline though).

Chameleon Dude.1564:

I don’t see what all the crying I’ve seen is about. Yes, there are some nerfs here and there. But the buffs!

The removal of the Ricochet trait kitten near destroys P/P thieves from even being viable. It wasn’t a meta build by any means, and yet it’s like they don’t want P/P to even be an option to thieves now.

This sucks so bad given that I’ve mained a P/P thief since the very beginning and is my absolute most fun character to run.

rodadams.5963:

I’ll point out that against a group of 3 foes, which is extremely common in PvE, not having ricochet is a 75% damage nerf, which is completely build breaking.

Good point. Given that P/P was hardly a meta build by any means, this almost seems like an oversight. It’s like I’m weirdly expecting a dev to say “oops! my bad, forgot to put Ricochet back in the game. Here ya go, sorry about the confusion.”

C’mon. Please baseline that trait, Anet.

godz raiden.2631:

As a thief who doesn’t touch p/p very often, my heart goes out to you guys. I found it a bit hypocritical that the devs have stated one of their goals with the new trait system and new traits is to allow for more diverse builds without completely removing existing builds, yet p/p seems to have been completely forgotten by them. I guess, as others have pointed out on this forum, there’s hope that the elite specialization for thieves will include traits that help pistol, but for now we can’t help but be skeptical.

Thanks for the kind words, raiden. And I completely agree with the highlighted statement.

Ricochet is nowhere to be found. In what world were P/P thieves OP and needed the very cornerstone to make a viable build removed?

This is not change. This is defilement.

Doggie.3184:

Just explain why you are~ cuz they listen to cries to gather feedback.

I agree. I am upset and I explained why. I just hope Anet is gathering feedback, ’cause there sure is a lot of it.

TheLordQ.1857:

Ugh. Do not like. Really hoping it’s a baseline change to pistol. This is the only thing that makes pistol viable indeed.

100% agree. Simply making Ricochet baseline would be the best thing for this trait, and for P/P thieves in general.

I notice some players are suggesting applying Ricochet only to Unload. While I agree that Unload is the skill that benefits the most out of that trait, the other skills made fun use out of it too.

Yamsandjams.3267:

It also works off the body shot skill to provide some pseudo-AoE immobilize…

That’s a good example. Also, it’s so satisfying interrupting an entire group of mordrem menders with a well-timed bouncing headshot.

So I would much rather have Ricochet be baseline than to have it only apply to Unload. In any case, it’s much too useful of a trait to remove altogether, and I hope Anet addresses this quickly if it is indeed gone. P/P thieves depend on it!

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Sykper.6583:

WE HAVE BUT ONE HOPE.

Calling it now, our specialization involves Pistols, and that traitline specifically promotes guns both small and large!

CLEARLY, clearly that is why they made Rifle worth less than dirt! Because its going to be SO broken when we get that traitline!

….I can only dream.

That

would

make

perfect sense.

I’ll remember this post when the elite spec pops. * FINGERS AND TOES CROSSED *

This is literally my exact thoughts on Ricochet being removed from P/P thieves (either that or it’s baseline now).

For all our sake, I hope these elite specializations repair what clearly is going to be broken next week when this patch goes live.

MrDaaark.2604:

Vavume.8065:

It maybe part of the new thief specialization line, if it is sniper for example, then it would seem logical that they put all GUN stuff together.

As an ascended P/P main character built around ricochet, pistol mastery, ankle shots, and executioner, I don’t feel too good about having most of it taken away for me, and then being forced to pay for it again.

Also, I plan to stay vanilla. A rifle or sniper spec doesn’t appeal to me at all.

At this point, I’ll take what I can get. Ideally, it would be amazing if Ricochet (including the range buff) became baseline, but if it was moved to some kind of gunslinger variation, then perhaps there’d be other useful traits that would strengthen P/P even more, which would actually be very welcome.

I just don’t see any other reason as to why Ricochet would be removed like this. It has to be somewhere. I mean, it’s not like P/P was a broken build by any means, so why remove the cornerstone that made it not only viable, but incredibly fun?