Guild Wars 2

Yeah, the light field on the hammer AA is more of a handicap for having perma protection than anything else.

I like the idea on GS 4 and mace 2 Aderion, you’d think being such a “support” class we’d have access to these types of things on our weapons skills.

I really hoped this thread would have some constructive thoughts to it but as I read through it, I’m really disappointed at both sides. A bunch of bickering back and forth that supports nothing be done.

Guardians may be in a good place, for specific tasks. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t some big holes in the guardian.

Only having one condition (burning) leaves out a huge aspect of play that every other class has. Bleeding on AA and a supplementary condition on CD (torment or confusion) is necessary to bring condi builds in line. Out of the core 5 conditions that do damage, guardians have burning. While most classes have 3 or more. In a condition meta that’s effectively leaving the guardians a step behind. Sure, they can compete in other ways, but why bar one class from general gameplay?

The only arguments I hear against condi guardians are “it doesn’t fit their image” or “guardians are in a good place”.

Add that and some soft CC and guardians wouldn’t have much else to complain about.

Crovax.7854:

Shanks.2907:

Wait, so the only two interrupts are shield bash and bull’s charge? I really don’t see that being enough in WvW, being single target CC too.

At the very least, I would add in Fear Me to the utilities. You’ll benefit from the heal and AOE interrupt. Like people said the mace/sword would help quite a bit adding 2 stuns (burst and a low CD), 2 blocks (2 and 5) and torment.

Tough call though. I could see even hammer/longbow working well with the CC and AOE damage. Warriors have it so tough juggling around conditions, makes maining a guardian so much easier to chose what to do. >.>

Perp @6 has 15 sec icd, all you need really is mace#3 which has exactly 15 sec cd as well.

You can still get 4 stacks of confusion from distracting strikes with no CD. Or, what if they have stability and your first stun doesn’t interrupt?

Wait, so the only two interrupts are shield bash and bull’s charge? I really don’t see that being enough in WvW, being single target CC too.

At the very least, I would add in Fear Me to the utilities. You’ll benefit from the heal and AOE interrupt. Like people said the mace/sword would help quite a bit adding 2 stuns (burst and a low CD), 2 blocks (2 and 5) and torment.

Tough call though. I could see even hammer/longbow working well with the CC and AOE damage. Warriors have it so tough juggling around conditions, makes maining a guardian so much easier to chose what to do. >.>

Well, from what I understand.

It takes a lot to process each condition damage and duration when stacked up. When there’s 25 stacks of bleed ticking, that’s 25 different bleeds doing their own damage with their own duration. Now, imagine if there was no limit and if a zerg dropped a couple hundred stacks of bleeding. I can see it being justified in open world, but in a dungeon instance with only 5 players it’s a bit unnecessary.

Of course, it’s a lazy way to fix the problem. It effectively discourages people from using condition builds in PvE. There’s plenty of workarounds that have been thought up and ignored.

Wouldn’t it be best to fix these issues limiting build diversity rather than swinging the nerf hammer around?

Well, you certainly did load up on % damage boosts.

If you’re going with those runes I’d drop 1 off of virtues and toss it onto Honor so you can get Pure of Voice. The extra cleanse will probably be more noticeable than a few % in damage.

Crit chance is quite low (25%) for a dps build.

For your shouts, I’d take Stand Your Ground and Hold the Line instead. The stability is huge in team fights especially on a low CD. HtL is also on a low CD and gives some good survivability with protection and regen. Save Yourselves can load you with conditions and is rarely worth the boons you get.

Not a bad start though. If you take the suggestions people give you and work them in I’m sure you can polish it up a bit.

Kamikazi.5380:

No, Guardian should not get more condis because it makes no sense. Every condition Guardian can apply makes sense with the class. Burning, immobilization, vulnerability, and blinds. It all fits the Guardian image, though granted some chills in there wouldn’t hurt.

What Anet needs to do is make a “condi” Guardian more unique than other condi classes. The Radiant Retaliation is a good start, too bad Retaliation was so heavily nerfed in PvP/WvW so it’s still useless, that and our perma-retal builds are gone. A real condi Guard can not and should not exist, burning is enough for us, what Anet needs to do is get creative.

Burning should be a supplement to damage, not the main source. It’s the highest DoT condition, so you don’t need to stack so much condition damage to improve it, rather condition duration is enough and that doesn’t require heavy stat dedication. Think about the Pyro from TF2, it applies burning just like Guardian but because fire in TF2 can be so easily put out, it’s more of a supplement damage than the main source. No Pyro just sets someone on fire then sits back and wait for them to burn. However, if someone manages to slip away from them the fire, if not put out, will finish them off.

I’ve noticed this in my hybrid-burning power build, seeing how easily Guardians can be kited my high burning ticks ended up kill my opponent once they were out of my reach. This is what Anet should do. Give us more traits like Fiery Wrath that benefits if someone is on fire. Something like our attack speed increases on people with burning condition, or you are healed for a percentage of damage you do from burning someone, something like that.

Straight up condi guard is impossible, and even if it were it’d be boring and just like other classes. We already can apply the most burning than any other class, Anet should make burning a more important, supplement-type damage effect to the class.

I wholeheartedly disagree with everything you’ve said.

A successful condi build cannot focus on just one condition, and no, retaliation is not a condition but a boon. Blinds and vuln are conditions but help very little in a condi build as they don’t deal damage over time nor do they scale with condition damage. Blinds and vuln is more valuable to a damage build anyways.

A good condi build will stack multiple conditions on a target making it very hard to cleanse. Bleeding, burning, torment, confusion and poison are the 5 core conditions and most classes have access to 3+. Focusing on condi damage when you only have access to burning is a huge waste in stats, regardless of how long it lasts or how hard it hits. One condi is extremely easy to cleanse.

For a guardian to have a viable condi build, we need an auto attack that applies bleeds and access to either torment or confusion. Though, I feel like the majority of our weapons ARE in a good place and would need something like a MH axe to pull off a condi build rather than changing our weapons.

The “guardian image” is a terrible excuse for us to not have conditions. Why do we have the one image out of 8 classes that has subpar condition application?

xFireize.6318:

Define perma blind please. Blind gets depleted once user fails to land the first attack.

Likely reapplying blind over and over. You take 3 in radiance for Renewed Justice (VoJ recharges on kill) and spam it in a zerg as the kills start coming in with staff guardian. 1 point in radiance for Justice is Blind (which is what is causing blind on VoJ) effects 5 targets per cast. Add Blind exposure (VI in radiance) for three stacks of vuln per blind per target.

You can also take 1 point in virtues for Inspired Virtues and get 3 might per cast, being able to spam might, blind and vuln. The might works well with AH too (about 1050hp per cast).

What about in PvP? I can’t go without anymore.

What lack of empathy. I doubt anyone would be saying these things if they did it themselves.

I myself only have twilight, but I can see the frustration caused to those who put time into their dual daggers. Or for that matter, double of any legendary on different toons. I can understand that refunding materials/unbinding would throw the economy off, but swapping for a different legendary (account bound) wouldn’t effect it one bit.

Xbon.9086:

do you not think this is slightly an exploit? workaround or not, you aren’t supposed to be able to salvage this gear.

Not at all. The reason what we can’t salvage karma gear is to prevent getting things like ectos or other materials. If the karma gear is transmuted to a different piece of equipment (say, a lvl 60 white piece) you’ll get the materials from that, instead of the karma gear. The workaround is simply to get the upgrade off, I couldn’t care less about the materials.

Mystic.5934:

I believe the wardrobe skins will not even have an upgrade socket. The way I’ve interpreted it is it’s just a skin, and you apply that skin to any item (of the same type) you want, and that item would already have your upgrade. I would bet that it then won’t be considered a karma item, so you could salvage it. like how the radiant/hellfire armor works from achievement chests.
I think you’ll still be able to buy karma items for karma, then you’ll have the skin in your wardrobe, but that karma item will still be non-salvageable. your workaround is what I’ve always done if the upgrade is worth it.
upgrade extractor is a piece of garbage. you can literally sell the gems it takes to buy it for gold, and use that gold to buy /any/ upgrade you’re trying to extract off the TP, and still have more than half the gold left over to spend on something else. I believe they only added the upgrade extractor because we asked for it, and they didn’t want to give it but wanted to seem obliging.
the transmute/salvage is far cheaper – around 4g vs. the 22g for a upgrade extractor.

I’m thinking it’ll work something like that too. So we’ll be able to transmute skins, but the stats on armor pieces won’t be transmutable anymore.

Yeah the upgrade extractor is way too expensive to be worth using. I’m all set myself and will probably never buy karma gear again. Though, I thought it was worth it to bring it up before the workaround is gone. Nothing worst than someone having traveler runes on a set they can’t salvage in the future.

Currently, the only way to get runes off of karma equipment is to transmute the piece with another piece of armor. Not the skin, but the stats. Or use an incredibly overpriced item to remove said upgrade, making it cheaper just to buy the new runes.

With the wardrobe the skins will only be applied to said armor piece, effectively losing the workaround.

Well, I don’t think I’ve heard anything about a solution in the works, and I’m set myself (luckily thought of it before patch). But I thought I’d raise this question and give the heads up for anyone who wants to do this before the patch goes live.

Well, I have a rather simple solution here.

Guild leaders should have the function to “create new instance” to fight Tequatl or the wurm. This way, there’s the ability to have your guild join in and any friends you want to invite. Alliances would be able to fill into the same instance together, bypassing a huge issue with the megaserver. Creating this instance should cost 0 merits. If it’s timed with when the boss spawns, it should just be an added QoL for large guilds/alliances.

Otherwise, it’s a shot in the dark to group up an organized group for the scheduled time, leaving the only option to activate the boss yourselves.

Mirta.5029:

The word gay in itself is not a swear word. And a lot of the times people are not trying to insult homosexual people, but rather use it in a “that sucks” kind of way. Remember that word meanings change often and fast, 50 years before “gay” used to mean “joyful”. As in “I’m having a very gay day”. Some of the remarks can be seen as insults, but not all that you point are actually wrong. To some of them, I think, that you’re reacting too sensitively.

Is this how people really think? Once a term is used in a derogatory manner it doesn’t go back. I’m sure I don’t need to tell you what word was used for ignorant, and it will always be a derogatory term now. The reasoning behind saying “that’s gay” instead of “that sucks” is because gay = something bad. There’s no other meaning besides it.

Simply put, it’s not politically correct.

Please yes to Queen’s Gauntlet being up all the time. Liadri was a great fight and I’d love to have more difficult solo content. Even if it was completely instanced, there’s really no need to have a crowd watching me waiting for their turn. (or at least the option to chose)

And gambits in the dungeons is a great way to change the experience. Casual runners can still run casual paths, but there’s the option to add some flavor. Perhaps even an anti-stacking gambit? Lose X health every 3 seconds if you don’t move 300 units. It could also increase build diversity with the right gambits. Like, physical damage reduced 95%, 3x condition damage. Or, effective healing reduced 75%, healing power scales at 500%.

Adding new gambits in with patches could give plenty of new challenges to an otherwise “beaten down” path. There’s a ton of potential, but more balancing.

You know, just a suggestion. If you’re going for map completion over 10 toons, you should take each one and gather each vista and point of interest each time you change colors. Finish it while you’re doing map completion, not at the end.

I’m sure you were red plenty of times before that stretch of not being red. If you took one of those opportunities, you would not be having any issues.

I suggest using http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ on any builds you absolutely don’t want to lose.

Don’t just bookmark it after either. You need to get the link at the bottom to share it, put it in your url, and then bookmark that page.

Look forward to feature patch 2015!

Makes me wonder how many of the NPCs are individually made, or their appearances are randomized. I’d be interested to see the ratios of white/colored NPCs individually created and the ratio of randomized. And of course the ratio of how many were created VS randomized.

My thoughts would be that the individually created ones follow the lore more closely, like Queen Jenna for instance. While the random ones tend to be more white (as the default in character creation skin color is generally white).

I might be in the minority, but I’ve already tweaked my warrior condition build for this.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIAQRAsZ5cjEd06ZbHOewJagApALgxowIiX9wO1JOA-TwAAzCuI+R9j7HzPyfs/M6Y1xGkpHA

With distracting strikes, that’s 9 stacks of confusion on first interrupt. It doesn’t stop there though. There’s the three stacks when struck (25% proc) which is nothing to sneeze at. People are going to hit a bunker, it won’t take more than a few seconds to proc when it comes off of CD. And to add to the rune confusion, each interrupt on cooldown still gives 4 stacks of confusion. It will be 100% uptime unless cleansed.

Add torment, stacks of bleeding, perma poison from sigils and the sheer amount of CC… My god.

And even then I can drop burst mastery for spiked armor and be a complete troll.

Makes me wonder, with this “all or nothing” system, will cultural armor be available across the board?

Well they said that we’d be getting an unidentified dye for each duplicate dye we have, so I’m assuming we keep the dyes we have. That’s why people are buying all the common dyes and putting them on multiple toons, to get more back on the feature pack release. But the commons are up ridiculously high too.

So I have twilight right now, in the process of making a second legendary. I’ve been on the fence about making sunrise for eternity, or making bolt and having two.

With these changes, now I’m considering making eternity (equipping sunrise) and selling it afterward. Then I’ll have both of those skins and have the loot to buy bolt and have plenty of gold leftover. But with the wardrobe, I’ll be able to use the skins for twilight and sunrise still.

Easy enough to craft an ascended greatsword for the stats.

Some of the best support you could offer is with the hammer. The auto attack puts down a symbol of protection (33% less damage).

She’ll probably be able to handle healing herself for the most part, but you can support her through boons. Shouts offer things like stability, protection and regen to allies. Five trait points into virtues can get you Inspired Virtues which improves your virtues. Virtue of Justice for might, Virtue of Resolve for regen and Virtue of Courage for protection.

A good guardian will cleanse his party member’s conditions too. Utilities like Purging Flames and Save Yourselves! work well, and the trait (IX in virtues) Absolute Resolution will add condition removal to Virtue of Resolve.

You’ll want gear with power on it while leveling. When you get up to two stats you can add precision or vitality depending if you want more dps or more survivability. Healing power won’t make your heals much better.

I’d really like to keep our weapons the same and instead add a new condition one. The sword is fine as it is now and doesn’t need to be tweaked for conditions. I certainly don’t want to lose any of it’s power for a few bleeds.

Something like a main hand axe. We’ve already got the torch so we don’t need an off hand weapon. Bleeds on auto attack, some sort of either gap closer that cripples on two, and maybe a block that adds torment if successful on three.

We’re the only class in the game that doesn’t have bleed on one weapon’s auto attack. Well, Mesmers give one of three conditions (bleed, burn and vuln). We’ll never have a viable condition build until we have a weapon that applies conditions consistently.

Sounds like people put all their eggs into this precursor crafting and spent their gold elsewhere, when they could of saved up and gotten it long ago. I too had been putting my precursor off for my second legendary, doing all the other gifts first. Maybe they’ll have it out before I wrap up my third.

My only issue with the the harvesting tools is that they’re hardly ever for sale. I can’t always afford to buy them, but when I can they’re never up. >.<

At least the tools are account bound now and you can swap them. I have multiple level 80s, but I generally only play on my main (guardian) and my elementalist. Having these two with full bag slots and harvesting tools is worth it for convenience, but if I were to use any of my other toons I’d probably just swap the tools over for harvesting runs. Easy enough to start and end my run by WP to a bank.

As for armor skins, I want more quality skins. Ones that mix in well with other skins in the game. My main issue with this last zodiac skin is that you’re turned blue and can’t mix it with other sets. Then there’s the flamekiss set that was just reskins. There are a few good sets and I’d like to see more released.

I think the QQ over “withdrawing” armor skins is a bit much though. You’re buying one set of the skin, and 10$ isn’t terrible. Make sure you put it on the right armor and not some level 53 masterwork. If you change your mind down the road, use a transmutation crystal and voila.

Hawke.9013:

Crossaber.8934:

It is called “Holy Trinity” for a reason, you need to worship her and follow her rules tight to works. It is a MMO religion, a faith.

To make it work, by the cost of freedom. Freedom to build your class, freedom to create better combat mechanics.

I am not a believer, and GW2 is not a religion, so NO, this game is a minority out there for non-believer, are you suggesting to kitten away our freedom with your believe?

Cross

No, there is freedom in the trinity. You can specialize your dps as in condi/crit whatever you like. If anything theres less freedom with out it, as you have to take into account that you’re going to get hit, so you need toughness, that takes out of your damage, you have to heal yourself and others, so that takes out of other things you might want to build yourself into.

You have an opinion, but its wrong. Allow us to diversify ourselves within the trinity, rather than making everyone a tank/dps/healer.

Is it just me or does that sound nothing like freedom? All you’re really doing is filling predetermined roles. You get 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 dps. Where’s the freedom for everyone to go dps? Healer is generally one of the tougher roles to fill in a party, where’s the freedom for the guy stuck doing that? You’re going around circles here about diversifying yourself within the trinity, but it’s all semantics.

And no, if you don’t build for toughness or healing, you can still survive through mechanics and your heal. Your freedom isn’t taken away by being self sufficient.

I honestly wouldn’t start calling people’s opinions wrong before taking a hard look at your own.

Depends which definition of tanking you’re going for. Yet they both play out the same way in gw2.

Candacis.7048:

And no build provides 100% protection. The player does that with skillful use of all abilites, dodging the right times and using the skills the most efficient way possible, with careful timing and the knowledge what to use when.
Newsflash, not all players are experienced like that. Not all players are always on high alert. Not all players like going all out offensive.

Yeah, 100% protection sure does take skill.

Equip hammer → Auto attack

Just as it sounds, what if we could choose our own priority list for combo fields? So often fields are laid down at the wrong time and can really throw off the pace (light fields with guardian hammer). I think it could make for a lot smoother gameplay, without worrying how much of the fields/blasts are wasted. You could set it water > fire > etc > etc, or whatever else.

It’d probably need programming that they don’t have time for, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

mPascoal.4258:

Harbinger.8637:

mPascoal.4258:

redslion.9675:

Dahkeus.8243:

Sorry, but this is a bad bunker build and a bad dps build combined. If you want a DPS build, go with a meditation build like Itty Bitty Bunker’s build. If you want a bunker build, go with something like this.

Also, the signet heal is a weak choice compared to shelter since it just opens you to getting interrupted.

Other than that, Rune of speed and sustain are really important, and altruistic healing doesn’t do a great job in spvp.

(BTW I LOVE 30 radiance points in med builds)

Why are Runes of Speed that important? I don’t see many if any characters running 25% faster in most games, why sacrifice damage over that? Not even Thief or Warrior Run that as far as I see it

Thieves and warriors don’t need it because they have a plethora of movement based skills that allow them to move around the map fast. Also they have traits that allow them to get higher movement speeds, guards don’t. If you’re a roamer you need to be moving fast. They also help with two weaknesses guard has. Vitality and keeping on target since Guards lack soft CCs. I personally always use speed runes when I play my dps guard. They’re not mandatory, however they do help significantly.

Well I spend most of the time in combat mode, most times when I move from 1 to another point I don’t even get out of it or if I do it as the end, and in combatmode every class as the same speed unless it has swiftness. Personally I don’t think it conpensates the damage loss. S/F and GS gives you plenty of mobility already and every damage spec runs JI or should so, movement Imo shouldn’t be a problem

No, the 25% movement speed applies to combat too. It’s especially helpful for sticking to your target to land auto attacks. You only have so many gap closers so if something else can help keep you close you’ll be in better position when you do need it.

Though, if you’ve never noticed the advantages of moving faster than your opponent there’s not much I can say here.

hints.8036:

DevonCarver.5370:

Cuddlepie.8109:

DevonCarver.5370:

We are looking into the issue right now. Until we know more, that’s all I can tell you at the moment.

“nothing can be done”

It has been resolved, but there isn’t really anything we can do after a match has been running to provide recompense. However, we’ll at the very least look into what we can do to possibly have a system for that in the future. As well as try and sort out what exactly happened so it doesn’t happen again.

My apologies for the situation.

Devon, thanks for the quick reply. Can you check the queues again? It seems that TC cannot queue the same number of people into TC BL at the moment compare to BG.

Normally I wouldn’t raise alarm and assume its afk players, but since this map has known bug history I want to bring it up to you before the problem manifests into something more nasty/unpreditable etc..

It’s their way of compensating BG for the 20 hour delay. Cap TC and JQ at 50% and let BG run over them for 20 hours capping everything.

Btw, weapon size scales with toon height. A maxed out Norn will have a huge sword while a short Norn will have a slightly smaller one.

Well, the best dps is using 100b on cooldown and swapping to axe AA. Just sitting on GS waiting for 100b using the AA and 4/5 skills is a huge waste in DPS. You can use whirlwind after 100b if you’re on a wall for good dps too.

Also, wouldn’t bother with axe off hand. 5 skill is lower dps than AA. I would use something like the shield, warhorn or even sword.

PvE gear =/= WvW gear

If you’re using shield and bull’s charge for interrupts, I suggest taking Distracting Strikes with it. It applies 4 extra stacks of confusion with your interrupt. I would drop Deep Cuts and Spiked Armor for it. The 50% bleed duration is made up for in part by the 20% condition duration by the strength line.
—————————-

My variation of the condition warrior would be:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIAQNAscTjMd03ZhHmhwJqABpQDrC7hj4UIJ0HsjUBxA-z0BB4iCik0AUHRMTtIas11FRjVJjIqWpEjUAQMNC-w

I’ve swapped out the shield for sword, going for torment over confusion. That means I swapped in torment runes too. The runes have 45% torment duration, plus the 15% condition duration in strength line add up 19.5 seconds of torment on 15 second cooldown. With food you can get up to 24 seconds of torment. Much more consistent to hit the sword throw than interrupt, and I can start combat with it catching people off guard. On top of that the sword is still impaled, so it will keep stacking even if cleansed.

Plays the same way really but I think the torment is far more potent than confusion and retaliation. Also, I use the Doom sigils on both swaps to keep 100% poison uptime to really put some pressure on.

And I dropped the 25% movement speed since signet of rage and balanced state have 42/48 seconds of swiftness uptime.

Dahkeus.8243:

Boonprot.6274:

Can people stop justifying using two utilities and a symbol on cooldown as good swiftness uptime?

No, because it is, lol.

Not all classes are designed to have the same advantages. On a guardian, you can tank incredible damage, even with the glassiest spec, can do DPS on par or greater than a warrior (depending on the fight), can reflect projectiles pretty much on par with a mesmer, can provide tons of boon support, is one of the most stable bunkers in the game, can give 100% protection to melee, can provide aegis to allies better than any other class, etc. etc.

So considering how many things Guardians do better than other classes, you’re simply going to have to deal with the fact that there are a few things that other classes can do better.

In this case, it means you swap in a weapon and 2 utility skills instead of just 1 utility skill when you’re running around the map. But at least you run faster with swiftness than with a run sig.

You’re missing the point. It’s fine to swap in the weapon and 2 utilities in when running around the map. That’s not the issue here. I make great time on resource runs combining the swiftness with teleports.

The problem is in combat. When 6/8 classes have some source of 25% movement speed, whether traited or on signets, it just doesn’t make sense for two classes not to.
The fact that we can get it through runes, but are not given it with class mechanics, is ridiculous. If it’s so out of balance for guardians and mesmers to have the 25% movement speed, why is it available in runes? Shouldn’t we be barred from the bonus seeing as we can’t get it on our own?

Out of combat speed isn’t a problem. It’s not an issue to use two shouts and staff if I’m tooling around. If I’m in combat though, it’s a complete waste of utilities and a weapon.

I think the idea is for guardians to stick to their symbols and not move around, but the game just doesn’t play that way most of the time. Each class should have equal access to movement speed, closers on skills (like leaps and teleports) should vary depending on class.

Sauzo.6821:

I’m assuming this is for PVP cause all the builds I’ve seen put up so far are crap for PVE. Putting points into toughness tree for PVE is an utter waste and you might as well just 4 man dungeons without that guard cause he is contributing next to nothing. Better off with a nice dps hammer build with perma protection. Something like a 15/15/0/20/20 or of you are comfortable with purging flames, just run a 25/15/0/20/10. Both of those builds will give you great dps, perma group protection and enough condi cleanse for most stuff in PVE of course.

How many words into the OP did you read?

Love the armor, well besides the whole blue thing. A for effort on being unique, but really find a new armor design director.

I’ve never really done the math out so I’m not sure of the formula. From what I always figured the damage multipliers were worked in at the end after the critical damage. Interesting to know that the multipliers are multiplied one at a time though and not in bulk, making them even more effective.

100 × 1.5 = 150
100 × 1.1 × 1.1 x 1.1 × 1.1 × 1.1 = 165.051

So earlier when I thought a 60% damage multiplier on 3000 would do 4800, it actually does 5338.86. Making each multiplier that more valuable over wasting trait points.

(feel free to correct any of the assumptions in math I’ve made)

mPascoal.4258:

Shanks.2907:

mPascoal.4258:

Shanks.2907:

DeathPanel.8362:

J Eberle.9312:

DeathPanel.8362:

Manuelito.6081:

DeathPanel.8362:

Manuelito.6081:

DeathPanel.8362:

Manuelito.6081:

Nobody is asking you to play the meta; however, your comments result in being misleading for new players and a waste of time for experienced players. You are really arguing against facts which have been proven in many ways (as much as a game without addons allow).

e.g. I also had problems in playing Scholar runes, but that was not due to the fact that the runes were not the optimal choice for PvE DPS

For the 100th time one of my guardians IS playing the meta build. Do you people even bother to read or do you just jump at anything that questions the sacred “meta” build which you all mindlessly worship? It’s like I’m trying to reason with a bunch of rabid Bieber fangirls.

I understood that you weren’t playing Scholar runes, hence not playing the meta.

Anyway, I tried to be constructive, but it really seems you just want to feed the argument for the sake of it. For this reason, I am out.

Scholar runes only work if you are in a well coordinated team where you can maintain your hp. Otherwise for dps purposes even ruby orbs are better.

You see the difference between you and I is that while I saw this discrepancy in practice and adjusted for it you mindlessly copycat, follow, and defend it.

Since this comment was totally uncalled for, I will just add that you do not know how I got to play the meta build. Your “seeing the discrepancy and adapting to it” seems more an excuse than anything else.

So, just to be clear, it seems to me that the difference between you and I is that I learned to play the optimal meta build, You did not.

Peace.

Nope, you’re just mindlessly copycatting a rune setup that works well only in well coordinated chat enabled teams and mistakenly thinking it will work better in all situations.

Conversely as I’ve stated I realized this limitation and made adjustments so that it will work well in all situations including pugs and other disorganized teams. So the difference between you and I is that I actually learned to play while you learned to copy.

Class dismissed.

I actually pug and gear check and have perfect runs with people in full scholar/zerk running the correct builds without voice com pretty regularly. I have no idea what you get these assumptions.

Being able succeed in a run while having scholar runes doesn’t mean you’ve actually managed to take advantage of the 6 pc 10% damage bonus enough to make it worth having over for example ruby orbs if dps is what you are after.

Fact is pugs are terrible sometimes, and maintaining 90%+ hp in a bad pug in high lvl fractals is near impossible.

I can’t find the math, but it works out to do more dps if you have 24% uptime on over 90% health. I’d appreciate if someone could link to it. Is it so unreasonable to be able to keep your health over 90% for 1/4 of the fight?

These little 10% multipliers really add up. If it’s just one or two you may not see much of a difference, but if you max them out you will see a huge difference. On the meta, there is a potential of 60% in multipliers. (Fiery Wrath, Powerful Blades, Radiant Power, Power of the Virtuous, Superior Runes of the Scholar, Superior Sigil of Force and Superior Sigil of the Night)

In context, that means if you you hit for 3000 on an attack for example with no multipliers, you would be dealing 4800 with them. If each party member had 40% it’s like bringing 2 extra people into the dungeon.

Running AH requires you to drop either support or multipliers. Tradeoff with dps for survivability. However, it’s generally unnecessary on most dungeons unless you or your party is unfamiliar with the content.

Your forgot Zealous Blade so it’s 65 and will be 75 after the crit damage changes since 2 handed weapons will be able to have 2 Sigils so GS will have Sigil of Force and Night

I used Powerful Blades for the one handed sword which is a 10% damage bonus over Zealous Blade that’s only a 5% bonus. So it would be down to 55% with Zealous Blade, seeing as I already worked the two sigils in there wouldn’t be another increase.

???
The meta has both, the meta is 20/25/0/0/25

Only one of the two can be used tallying up total % because you can only have one of the weapons out at a time. Point being you can’t raise the total over 60%.

mPascoal.4258:

Shanks.2907:

DeathPanel.8362:

J Eberle.9312:

DeathPanel.8362:

Manuelito.6081:

DeathPanel.8362:

Manuelito.6081:

DeathPanel.8362:

Manuelito.6081:

Nobody is asking you to play the meta; however, your comments result in being misleading for new players and a waste of time for experienced players. You are really arguing against facts which have been proven in many ways (as much as a game without addons allow).

e.g. I also had problems in playing Scholar runes, but that was not due to the fact that the runes were not the optimal choice for PvE DPS

For the 100th time one of my guardians IS playing the meta build. Do you people even bother to read or do you just jump at anything that questions the sacred “meta” build which you all mindlessly worship? It’s like I’m trying to reason with a bunch of rabid Bieber fangirls.

I understood that you weren’t playing Scholar runes, hence not playing the meta.

Anyway, I tried to be constructive, but it really seems you just want to feed the argument for the sake of it. For this reason, I am out.

Scholar runes only work if you are in a well coordinated team where you can maintain your hp. Otherwise for dps purposes even ruby orbs are better.

You see the difference between you and I is that while I saw this discrepancy in practice and adjusted for it you mindlessly copycat, follow, and defend it.

Since this comment was totally uncalled for, I will just add that you do not know how I got to play the meta build. Your “seeing the discrepancy and adapting to it” seems more an excuse than anything else.

So, just to be clear, it seems to me that the difference between you and I is that I learned to play the optimal meta build, You did not.

Peace.

Nope, you’re just mindlessly copycatting a rune setup that works well only in well coordinated chat enabled teams and mistakenly thinking it will work better in all situations.

Conversely as I’ve stated I realized this limitation and made adjustments so that it will work well in all situations including pugs and other disorganized teams. So the difference between you and I is that I actually learned to play while you learned to copy.

Class dismissed.

I actually pug and gear check and have perfect runs with people in full scholar/zerk running the correct builds without voice com pretty regularly. I have no idea what you get these assumptions.

Being able succeed in a run while having scholar runes doesn’t mean you’ve actually managed to take advantage of the 6 pc 10% damage bonus enough to make it worth having over for example ruby orbs if dps is what you are after.

Fact is pugs are terrible sometimes, and maintaining 90%+ hp in a bad pug in high lvl fractals is near impossible.

I can’t find the math, but it works out to do more dps if you have 24% uptime on over 90% health. I’d appreciate if someone could link to it. Is it so unreasonable to be able to keep your health over 90% for 1/4 of the fight?

These little 10% multipliers really add up. If it’s just one or two you may not see much of a difference, but if you max them out you will see a huge difference. On the meta, there is a potential of 60% in multipliers. (Fiery Wrath, Powerful Blades, Radiant Power, Power of the Virtuous, Superior Runes of the Scholar, Superior Sigil of Force and Superior Sigil of the Night)

In context, that means if you you hit for 3000 on an attack for example with no multipliers, you would be dealing 4800 with them. If each party member had 40% it’s like bringing 2 extra people into the dungeon.

Running AH requires you to drop either support or multipliers. Tradeoff with dps for survivability. However, it’s generally unnecessary on most dungeons unless you or your party is unfamiliar with the content.

Your forgot Zealous Blade so it’s 65 and will be 75 after the crit damage changes since 2 handed weapons will be able to have 2 Sigils so GS will have Sigil of Force and Night

I used Powerful Blades for the one handed sword which is a 10% damage bonus over Zealous Blade that’s only a 5% bonus. So it would be down to 55% with Zealous Blade, seeing as I already worked the two sigils in there wouldn’t be another increase.

DeathPanel.8362:

J Eberle.9312:

DeathPanel.8362:

Manuelito.6081:

DeathPanel.8362:

Manuelito.6081:

DeathPanel.8362:

Manuelito.6081:

Nobody is asking you to play the meta; however, your comments result in being misleading for new players and a waste of time for experienced players. You are really arguing against facts which have been proven in many ways (as much as a game without addons allow).

e.g. I also had problems in playing Scholar runes, but that was not due to the fact that the runes were not the optimal choice for PvE DPS

For the 100th time one of my guardians IS playing the meta build. Do you people even bother to read or do you just jump at anything that questions the sacred “meta” build which you all mindlessly worship? It’s like I’m trying to reason with a bunch of rabid Bieber fangirls.

I understood that you weren’t playing Scholar runes, hence not playing the meta.

Anyway, I tried to be constructive, but it really seems you just want to feed the argument for the sake of it. For this reason, I am out.

Scholar runes only work if you are in a well coordinated team where you can maintain your hp. Otherwise for dps purposes even ruby orbs are better.

You see the difference between you and I is that while I saw this discrepancy in practice and adjusted for it you mindlessly copycat, follow, and defend it.

Since this comment was totally uncalled for, I will just add that you do not know how I got to play the meta build. Your “seeing the discrepancy and adapting to it” seems more an excuse than anything else.

So, just to be clear, it seems to me that the difference between you and I is that I learned to play the optimal meta build, You did not.

Peace.

Nope, you’re just mindlessly copycatting a rune setup that works well only in well coordinated chat enabled teams and mistakenly thinking it will work better in all situations.

Conversely as I’ve stated I realized this limitation and made adjustments so that it will work well in all situations including pugs and other disorganized teams. So the difference between you and I is that I actually learned to play while you learned to copy.

Class dismissed.

I actually pug and gear check and have perfect runs with people in full scholar/zerk running the correct builds without voice com pretty regularly. I have no idea what you get these assumptions.

Being able succeed in a run while having scholar runes doesn’t mean you’ve actually managed to take advantage of the 6 pc 10% damage bonus enough to make it worth having over for example ruby orbs if dps is what you are after.

Fact is pugs are terrible sometimes, and maintaining 90%+ hp in a bad pug in high lvl fractals is near impossible.

I can’t find the math, but it works out to do more dps if you have 24% uptime on over 90% health. I’d appreciate if someone could link to it. Is it so unreasonable to be able to keep your health over 90% for 1/4 of the fight?

These little 10% multipliers really add up. If it’s just one or two you may not see much of a difference, but if you max them out you will see a huge difference. On the meta, there is a potential of 60% in multipliers. (Fiery Wrath, Powerful Blades, Radiant Power, Power of the Virtuous, Superior Runes of the Scholar, Superior Sigil of Force and Superior Sigil of the Night)

In context, that means if you you hit for 3000 on an attack for example with no multipliers, you would be dealing 4800 with them. If each party member had 40% it’s like bringing 2 extra people into the dungeon.

Running AH requires you to drop either support or multipliers. Tradeoff with dps for survivability. However, it’s generally unnecessary on most dungeons unless you or your party is unfamiliar with the content.

1) Ranger – Not to get into everything but needing a grandmaster trait to use your signets is terribly unbalanced with the rest of the classes. It limits a lot of builds.

2) Ele – Very limited by weapons. You’re either short range or long range. Perhaps add a second weapon but limit each weapon to two attunements each. (S is F/W and d/d is L/E)

3) Guardian – Notably mobility issues and lack of conditions.

Contrary to your bandwagon fallacy “proven by the general player base ever since release” it’s really just your own opinion DeathPanel. You haven’t provided a build or referenced any facts, just that you’ve tested them yourself. And you didn’t even go in detail of what these tests were and how they translate into actual game play.

You’ve been relying on logical fallacies nearly every post, you’re not doing AH any favors. And this is coming from someone who sees AH as a viable choice for some, though suboptimal.

Saint.5647:

The OP is trying to get advice on builds. You seem to have a bone to pick with the Meta for whatever reason. Pick it and be done. Or lay out the buildcrafting behind your AH build that proves it is the most viable and consistent PvE build for Guardians. The onus is on you

Thank you for trying to get the conversation back in the right direction. It’s disheartening to see all this back and forth on semantics, when my post that actually deals with a build theory gets passed over.

I’m curious to what opinions will be after ferocity is introduced too. With critical damage having diminished returns on points invested like with critical chance, I think there’s going to be a lot more value in these damage multipliers in the meta.

I thought it’d be interesting to see if I could make a “viable” AH build. Going to use knight’s gear too!

20/0/30/0/20 “Build A”
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJARSlUg6CHGyKEf4ESmCRCBrUEP3z1jEiiYIA-jQBBYfBK7sIasFXFRjVXDT5iIqWKgIWGB-e

20/25/0/0/25 “Build B”
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAsdRlUg6CHGyKEf4ESODRCBtZAQHUli45eA-jgBBYfCiUBBKzsIasFXFRjVXDT5iIqWKgIWGB-e

I’d like to take a look at these two side by side.

Build A has + 13% crit damage and + 100 power.
Build B has + 6% crit chance and + 15% damage multiplyer (+ 10% with sword, about + ~2.5% with weapon swaps)
Build A has ~3k armor Build B has less than 2200.

Build B has blind on VoJ and no recharge of VoJ on kill.
Build A has increased survivability with AH and Strength in Numbers.
——————————————————————————

Now, does build A hit like a wet noodle? I don’t think it falls into the detriment to the party like people have been saying. Is that ~15% damage loss offset by survivability?

Short answer: Great for PUGs and suboptimal for organized runs.

Let’s just move on from the flamekiss debacle and hopefully get some original new sets next time. We’ve got enough flames, we’ve got enough effects.

Perhaps make an effort to blend pieces in with existing sets. A lot of people mix and match, maybe the next heavy chest in the gem store will look good with the Orrian Legguards. Instead of selling whole sets why not make a bunch of pieces and let us put them together?