With an immunity or a block/evade skill you don’t have to worry about how the enemy hit you, you’re immune to everything. Or at last to all the damage (direct or condition).
Block, evade, total immunity skills, don’t only block damage but also block condition effects and all the CC applied to you.
If you block an attack, the enemy can’t CC you, a warrior can’t stunlock you down while you totally evade the hit (blur for example), the enemy can’t inflict you conditions as a condi burst, can’t inflict you any damage, can’t immobilize you.
Shroud is only a meat shield that you have to recharge all the time and you can’t recharge in time or enough to survive to a focus of the enemy team. A Blur make all the enemi team waste they’re skills, a Shroud make you die only 2 seconds later with tons of CC and conditions on you.
To use the Shroud you have to charge it and it’s duration depend on how much you charged it. A block skill last Always for the same duration, have a specific cooldown and can be activated when you need it. if you don’t have LF you can’t active it and if you have to stop a burst and you have lesser than 33% of LF (or even lesser than 50%) is useless active it and is better die and keep the Lf for later, to be shure to survive and not only waste your only defensive and offensive skill.
Shroud is the best and (frequently) Only dps option for a necromancer. Without the shroud the necromancer is weak, can’t inflict his full damage and (expecially with the condition build) don’t have any combo burst.
Do you want to last 3 seconds longer but be under the full enemy pressure, maybe wasting the Shroud defensive skill, or do you want to be able to inflict a good damage and maybe be useful in a fight?
When in the Shroud you obtain different offensive and difensive skills (expecially for the Reaper) but you lose all your weapon, heal, utility and elite skills, making you lose all the ways to survive (for example you can’t flee with the wurm while in shroud because you can’t active it) and become the easiest class to hit of this game, unable to clean conditions and able only to active a stability skill that got nerfed in the last patch. You become a real pounchingbag, nothing more. The Shroud is usefull only for attack, all your defences are gone.
Also the Reaper shroud is Melee and you can’t hit someone if hi kite a little. When a necro enter the shroud a mesmer, thief, war, youst need to wait untill the shroud fall off (eventually enough to burst him away with a single hit if you don’t want to wait the full Lf degeneration) and the reaper is more or less unable to catch you.
Life Force Bar is Not a second life bar, you need to fill it with your skills (or if an enemy die, but anyway it’s a little % of the total amount), you have to preserve it to don’t waste it, you can’t obtain it while out of combat (unless you kill the wurm, but is a really bad move because if you have it you need it). Also, when is active you lose it every second, a thing that reduce both your defensive and offensive ability. longer you stay in shroud lesser you can do with it.
Frequently the Life Force is more a problem than a resource and you have always to chose when and how active it. If you active it in the wrong moment you waste all your mechanic, your defence, your dps, have to built another time the % lost and can’t enter it for 10 seconds (7 with a trait no one use).
I will trade all my Life Force for a single good immunity/block/evade skill.
The reason that make every team focus a necromancer at first is only because is the easiest to kill. The necromancer don’t have any way to block your damage, your conditions and your CC, have a really bad access to stability, at the start of a match don’t have any Life Force to protect himself and if active his Shroud strip him out of it is really easy (also because lose all his poor defensive skills) and what remain is a class unable to survive and to inflict any good damage.
other classes have lesser health and lesser damage reductions but the necromancer is the Only class that can’t stop you to hit him. And if you hit someone at 100% you don’t have to fear to miss a condition or a stun because you’ll always hit him and you’ll always apply all the effects of your skill. That make the necromancer a class totally unable to defend himself.
mesmers can active the trap with a clone, the same can do necros with rise, rangers don’t even need to go in point to kill a guard and thief can just teleport in and out, with only a small damage, making the guard wast his skill.
The guardian is strong, but not the best class of this game. In team fight have some problems, expecially if the enemy team know how to fight one. A good thief can just spam backstab and AA on the back of a guardian and he die easy. Warriors can burst them down easy with unblockable CC and burst.
Also, burn guardian was strong pre-HoT, not they’re unplayable with all the amount of conditions in this game. Also, as a necromancer I really like to find them and kill them with they’re burn. Send back 15 stack of burn don’t have price
Revenant condi is good now, but they’re still not the best class in this meta.
Necromancers got a huge nerf with Plagueland. That skill don’t grant any good advantage, unless in 4v4 and only if the full enemy team don’t see your pulsing elite for at last 5 seconds (when it finally start to become dangerous). in 1v1-2v2 is pure garbage.
The meta is still direct damage and more or less nothing changed. only warriors got a nerf and maybe guardians. But they’re still good.
The only change in this meta will be the revenant finally useful. And maybe it will take the place of the necromancer in tournament teams as a boon remover and condition spammer.
Necromancers can’t do 1v1. If you have to do a 1v1 to protect a point is better flee and leave the point to the enemy, helping and ally on anothe rpoint, than die and grant to the enemy team 5 points.
If the enemy want to kill you, you can’t do anything to prevent that, unless you are against a class with low movement skills, no breakstun and no stability (basicly no one).
Cripple and chill don’t grant you safety from classes that have at last two movement skills (or a good one), fear is good only if the enemy don’t have breakstun, stability or resistance (basiclty no one), skills like spectral wall grant you a fear wall but if the enemy have resistance or stability is totally useless or if the enemy have a teleport (mesmer, thief, guardian, revenant for example), or can burst you with ranged weapons (ranger LB for example). the worm is good if you can know exactly when the enemy team will be when you need to flee because you can’t move it. And every good thief will kill it in the exact moment they see it, removing your only defensive skill and dooming you to death)
If you play a necromancer the best thing you can do is play in team. If your team is losing run away to Close (if you’re in mid) or to the nearest ally (or the respown if all the team is dead) and do it faster as you can. if you stay and fight you die in maybe 4-5 seconds and only grant 5 points to the enemy.
Necromancers don’t have defensive skills that grant them to hold a pint and don’t have enough dps to compensate the lack of defences, becoming the easiest class to kill in 1v1. More or less every class can kill a necromancer, then don’t waste your time in a fight you can’t win and run away to safety.
in sPvP the meta is still direct damage. Over 9 classes only 3 can play conditions and onlyone of them play condi. Maybe 2 with the new revenant mallyx buff.
For every condi class/build there’s 2 direct damage class/build.
That can not be called condi meta.
Anyway, I play the necromancer as direct damage and now with the buff to the axe I’m able to inflict a really good damage. I don’t use the GS because is too slow and don’t grant me nothing unless a easy to evade huge skill that miss half the time and is useless 1v1. I found that direct damage is better than condition, expecially from when I can inflict 8-10k with my axe skill 2. Sometimes I find myself to be the best damage dealer of my team.
The limitation of stats and the insane amount of condi clean and resistance mae conditions weak. If someone tell you to play condi with a necromancer you can tell him that direct damage is better. Maybe the GS is the problem because is slow and have bad skills.
Also, you can be a boon corruption necro still with axe, corruption and well skills, inflicting better damage than condi and surviving better. You do your role and much more damage than condi.
I never look to the damage reduction formula (I don’t even know where to look, on the wiki there’s nothing about that) then i have to belive you on that. Ok.
About Resistance I think i was not clear enough, i was talking about the warrior Berserker Stance, to make an example, also because is the main source of Resistance in that game. That skill generate 3 sec of resistance every 3 sec for 3 times and that was my example. If the war active his healing signet he will obtain resistance and if corrupted will not be reapplied, that’s right.
revenant obtained a lot of love and now is playable with Mallyx and someone already say that will replace the necromancer as a boon remover. Then yes, it’s in the game and viable.
The warrior shoud play condition and inflict much more damage than with the direct damage build, also because is the Only class atm really able to burst you with conditions (also because can spam a large amount of them in few seconds and, more important, of different conditions and not only stask up the same one that will be really easy to clean and counter).
Necromancers atm are divided between inflict a good(high damage with conditions or be shure to inflict a good damage with direct damage. direct damage grant a little more survavibility but a necromancer have 0 survavibility, then there’s nothing to tell about, just chose the stronger damage and play it. And always more players use the direct damage.
Ranger with trap is the easiest build to kill, inflict poor condition damage and there’s more or less no one that use it, unless in low level unranked for fun. Seriously: traps? 3 burn, 4 poison and few bleed? And only if you use all your traps! Don’t joke me, please! But a ranger can burst you down with his LB+HoT pet combo and that’s enough to kill everyone they want.
Mesmers on the other side try to play direct damage but can’t because they’re only good build is with condition, making them one of the lesser played class of this meta, still if one of the best.
oh, there’s the engineer that can spam burn pretty good but it’s really easy to clean or avoid. The same for the Guardian. And, please, tell me that you don’t die against burn guardian…they’re absolutly easy to kill with every class and build. Guardian is the class with the best access to Burn and able to stack it really fast, but is so easy to clean and evade that no one use it since Pre-HoT, unles to have fun.
No other classes can condi bomb.
And even when i tell you that a condi build can Burst you, i mean with at last 5-8 seconds of time to build up his conditions. not even a warrior can burst you faster.
The only thing that make you THINK that an enemy is Bursting you with conditions is when he stacked on you enough conditions to inflict 3k/sec (or more) and you think that all that damage come from his last few skills, while that damage had been accumulated with a lot of time and made it grow hitting you with different skills.
ONLY DIRECT DAMAGE CAN (really) BURST YOU. That’s all. only a direct damage build can inflict you 8k istant with a Single Skill in lesser than a second, or 4k istant with a Single Hit.
Conditions can inflict up to 3k/sec 8maybe 4 if you don’t really have condi clean on you) with a lot of skills and stacks of conditions, but a player need time to build them up, still if you feel different.
About passive ways to reduce condition damage there’s the new necromancer Reaper Shroud 3 that reduce by 20% direct and condition damage. There’s also runes that reduce condition duration on you up to 25%, reducing also they’re damage.
Also, clean a condition mean reduce to 0 the incoming damage from all the cleaned stacks of that condition and is the equivalent of All your defensive trait+boon+effects added together. Clean a full stack of burn and all the damage you’ll feel will be the damage done to you in the time between the application and the activation of your condi clean. That will grant you a reduction of that condition stack damage up to 90%. Much more than any impossible combination of toughness, rune, trait and skills from different sources you can find in this game.
And there’s an insane amount of skill,trait,rune,sigil,CombiField that clean conditions, granting you a easy access to counters against condition damage.
If there’s only a single meta build over 9 classes that is able to use conditions better than direct damage to kill you and you still think that condition damage is the source of every bad thing of this game, i can only tell you to look to the evidences and tell you: over 9 enemies you can find on your way only one have conditions, and is not the top build of this game, do you fear him so much to nerf conditions to the ground only to be able to see the other 8 classes kill you with direct damage bursts?
We’ll not obtain a minion elite for shure, but maybe a single “minion” skill, like Rise! for the Reaper. But nothing more.
We can only hope that it will be cool
Every single Total-Invulnerability/Block/Evade/Bling make a condition class Unable to stack conditions, making him unable to stack damage. As I told, that will not seen in the immediate, but you’ll see the lack of damage after few seconds.
Conditions when applied inflict low damage but they inflict that damage all over time.
If you block a 4k istant hit you reduce to zero the damage. If you block a 4k condition skill that will inflict that damage over 5 seconds, you always block 4k of damage. there’s no difference!
The difference is that if someone inflict you 20k of direct damage you di in 4 seconds (time to active the skills), if someone stack up 20k of damage you die in 10 seconds (time to make the tick work). That’s because direct damage is way better than condition.
And more or less every skill you mentioned is not used in sPvP since years…(unless necro staff and CPC. Also caltrops, but they’re used only in builds that atm no one use)
Spear of Justice inflict Burn but is you see a condition guardian active it you’ll be shure it’s a TOTAL NooB because he reduce his future condition damage to 0 only to stack few burn, the worst action you can do using a condition class.
About amulets, i will for shure take it, not because they’re better, just because the main source of damage is direct damage and more you protect yourself from it better is for you. by that, is a point in favor of direct damage, not conditions damage. There’s no amulet used with thoughness and that’s a really huge advantage for direct damage, while everyone use vitality, that is a counter for condition damage.
Told you that, i play a necromancer with a Direct Damage build, just because is better than condition damage, I’m shure to inflict all my damage and not be hardly or totally countered by different classes with condi clean or Resistance.
Also, talking of resistance, i can corrupt 3 sec of resistance but there’s other 6 of it. And if I corrupt it after 2 seconds it will tick the next resistance after 1 sec, making me waste my corruption. How many damage immunity skills last so long? 9 second of total immunity from every kind of condition. It’s a lot, don’t you think? And revenant can spam it easy all the time, making my corruptions a waste of time.
And if you tell me that the warrior can active his endure pain and then his shield, i can tell you that the sheld protect also from conditions, just because I can’t inflict any stack on someone that block my skills.
Direct damage is so good that 7/8 classes over 9 chose it instead of condition, still if they can use condition damage.
the warrior can be the master of condition damage and is able to fight with conditions and do burst all the time. But every warrior know that play as direct damage is better because there’s lesser counters and your damage can be reduced but not negated. At last you inflict only 54% of you damage, but not 0%.
Also, are you shure that damage reduction are multiplicative? I doubt…
Why everyone still think that block/evade/dodge/blind?
If you can’t hit you can’t stack conditions. Block a Torch skill of the guardian is like block the LB 2 of the dragonhunter, there’s not so much difference.
If you say that even while you block/evade/blind you feel the effects of the already stacked conditions, that’s another story. Conditions tick still while you block, but to prevent them you have to block the hits before you feel the pain of so much stacked conditions. And anyway if you block/evade a Necromancer RS5+RS4 combo you evade all his condition burst, the same if you dodge a mesmer F2 attack, you will evade his damage and the future damage of the stack he was not able to inflict to you.
There’s really no difference in terms of how much damage you can block/evade/xxxxx, the only difference is that conditions inflict damage over time instead of when they hit.
Then, to speak about things that reduce condition damage:
- 63 weapon skills/utility/heal/elite that remove/convert/transfer conditions
-34 traits that clean/convert/transfer conditions
-I have to look how many rune/sigil clean conditions but there’s different of them
AND there’s also the Total Immunity to condition Boon: Resistance. That just make all your stacks useless and reduce to 0 your damage. Only 2 classes have it but a warrior and a revenant can counter any condition build in this game (still if the mallyx revenant is harder to play, but had get a buff and now is viable)
Also, talking of sPvP, how much Toughness do you see in play? Seriously: how many builds use amulets with toughness? Maybe few paladin builds, but there’s only few of them, all the others use Vitality. Then there’s not the problem of toughness because no one have it. It’s one of the reasons direct damage is better than condition damage: there’s lesser defences to it.
There’s also lesser Protection in this game, season by season, with even more boon remover/corruption (expecially now with the mallyx revenant and the thief spammer that convert/steal boons).
Frost aura can be obtained only through a elementalist and there’s only few of them today. maybe when the season start we’ll more of them in game, but actually there’s only few of them.
About Rite of the Great Dwarf i had to look on the wiky to remember what is it and you’ll Never see that skill in sPvP just because no one use the dwarf legend, as no one use the centaur legend. They’re useless in sPvP, unless you play a really specific role and playstyle in a well organized team that can support you. But ehy, now there’s only the solo/duoQueue and no one can risk so much only to play a single skill that last for 5 seconds and consume all your energy, making you useless.
but yes, I also put in different skills no one use, then it’s a fair play.
The bulkward gyro is really good, nothing to say.
And one of the things that make the real difference between direct and condition damage reductions is that reductions to power damage only Reduce it but condi clean/convert/transfer skills totally Stop or Negate the condition damage.
If you hit an enemy that have protection you know that the damage is reduced by 33% but if you make your burst and the enemy active a condi clean (for example the druid enter the celestial avatar form) your damage is reduced up to 90% of it’s full potential.
Also, your mentioned reductions stack but one by one, if you have frost aura and protection you will not protect you by 43% of the damage, you will reduce the damage by 33% and then by 10%, obtaining a reduction of 39%. I don’t know what of them reduce the damage first, but that’s more or less how they work.
About unblockable condition skills, I know only the necromancer staff and it’s everything other than dangerous. maybe only the skill 4 if the necro have conditions to transfer, but in this meta there’s not enough conditions to transfer to obtain a good damage.
I fear the Direct damage unblockable skills, and there’s a good amount of them. And also skills to make your skills unblockable (as the signet of the warrior, that have a low cd and 5 sec of duration, more than enough to burst a DH 100-0 with a good stun lock-dps combo)
Be shure that there’s seriously more ways to protect yourself from Conditions than from Direct damage and that Direct damage grant you a better and (more important) Faster damage.
Condition damage is strong but there’s so many ways to counter it that only 1 class over 9 use it (maybe 2 with the new revenant), at last at medium/high level.
(edited by Silv.9207)
Also condition is countered by evade, block, blind, and also Resistance. And a large amount of traits, ten times the traits that protect from direct damage.
If you can’t hit the enemy you can’t stack conditions, if the enemy block your burst you can’t inflict any damage. The only difference is that you will see the absence of that damage few seconds after the burst.
Condition is the most countered source of damage of the entire game.
Envy, maybe we wrote our reasons wrong, i don’t know, maybe we hurted you unwillingly.
You gave us an explaination of how you feel about conditions and we told you in different manners that conditions are strong and you have to pay really attention and always run with few condi clean (or even more as possible), but that condition builds are really underwelming if compared to power builds. maybe a mesmer can be really strong in condition damage for different reasons (have movement skills, able to breakstun in different ways, different immunity/block skills that grant he time to kill you with conditions, for example) but all the other classes run better in direct damage because, expecially in this meta, direct damage grant a faster and easier kill.
Condition damage can kill you and can be really frustrating lose against something that you continue to strip away from you but continue to afflict you all the time, but for shure condition damage is not the best way to inflict damage in this meta. Maybe 3-4 seasons ago, but for shure not now.
You can say that there’s not enough condition remove skills to grant you a vistory over a condition class, but i can tell you that there’s not even enough protection and block7evade skills to grant you immunity to direct damage.
Actually condition damage and direct damage are two faces of the same coin. You can inflict damage with direct or condition damage, your choice, but you can be able to kill someone with both.
And, you can belive me or not, is easier kill someone with direct damage than with conditions. The reasons are many and if you want I can explain you everything, but i think you’ll not pay attention to all that anyway.
basicly, the simple fast that you can Totally Negate a full condi burst activating a single condi remove skill or using Resistance make conditions a second choice source of damage for every class able to inflict direct damage.
For example, necromancers now play direct damage builds because even them find hard to kill someone with conditions, still if they have a really good condi output. only few play condition builds but in a common sPvP match they find hard to fight, much harder than with a direct damage build.
When we tell you that actually 7 classes over 9 play Direct Damage (and only because the revenant condi got a power up) is not because we are here making a joke of you, but because that’s the truth.
There’s different players out there and everyone chose to play what he want and you can find every class play conditions, but if you look to the 80% of the builds for every class that run around the sPvP are all direct damage classes.
You made an example of your guardian build fight against a necromancer and that’s the worst shenario for the builds you showed up. if you fight the same necromancer with a builds focused more on inflict damage than on spam boon and clean conditions you will win easy against him.
Do you want to kill a condition build? Don’t focus all your resources on clean conditions but focus on clean the burst and kill him fast with direct damage.
the reason is simple: every single condition build have the same weak point: to inflict good damage need to stack conditions. And frequently have only a single burst combo. Then, what you have to do is force the enemy to use his burst bursting him with your combo, clean the stacks and then finish him with your fast damage.
condition damage can seem higher than direct damage but they need time to build up that amount of conditions, if you don’t give them time to do that you’ll win at 100%.
Condition damage is a dangerous shadow that can become the Reaper and kill you, but if you are fast enough you’ll win without too much pain.
I literally fought a necro today on my gaurdian.
I had the talent to turn condi to boon
i had soldier runes
i had 3 shouts.
i had trait that remove condi every 10 second
i had heal skill remove condi every 10 second
i had convert to boon utility skill
I still was kittennig slathered in condis even after i countered his corrupt boon with with convert condi skill and shouts
also, the entire fight i have to watch my condi bar to make sure im only using shout to cleanse important condi, which makes my awareness go down. cant watch the necro for skill cues or even know other enemy around until theyre already attacking me thanks to this stupid shlt
it is either run or die against GOOD condi necro if its 1v1
guild wars 2 combat system for PVP has been flawed since its conception and its the main reason why gw2 pvp isnt fun for most people
that said its certainly fun to play as and like i already said its great for PVE. you can defend it for pvp but the fact that the pvp population is what it is will not agree with you.
Do you play as a DH or as a core guardian?
Because if you play as a DH and die against a necromancer you’re seriously bad.
But looking to the skills you mentioned you’re using a core build focused on support and boons against a class that ANet chose and fixed only to fight boonspam builds.
A necromancer will always win against a class that spam boons because have a large amount of fuel for his skills and damage.
Also your build seems to be not optimal. Starting by your use of Signet of resolve, that is the worst heal skill in sPvP you can use (1 second of casting easy to see and interrupt) and the choice of your traits and skills, you play an old build good Only in team fight, hoping to fight a Reaper (not only a Necromancer but his Elite Specializzation) that totally counter your entire build, with no offensive utility and maybe not even full offensive weapons.
if you want to kill a necromancer, go in Meditation with GS/Sword+shield(or focus) and burst down the necromancer faster as you can.
If you play a core support build in 1v1 you don’t have to pretend to kill anyone.
No matter what’s your amount of condi clean, if you can’t kill the enemy fast enough you’ll be covered by conditions. And to fight a necromancer spam buun is the worst choice you can do.
Condition damage had been powered up enough to make someone able to kill you with it, then is easy to think that no one is able to totally clean the conditions all the time long. Unless you play a warrior… but that’s another story.
You’re only a big L2P issue, nothing more.
Basicly, you think that the entire game is out of control and ANet need to nerf everithing.
Movement skills are not ok, damage modifiers are not ok, precision are not okm condition damage is not ok, CC are not ok and classes/builds needs a total rework…
1) Precision is what make this game fast and reacting. You NEED to react fast or you’ll die. If you reduce/remove precision you’ll obtain a slow game where no one need to be fast because the damage will kill you slowly. You argumentation is against you….
2)Damage Modieers exist since launch and they’re not a so huge problem and grant not so much damage. The only class that can really stack damage modifier is the elementalist and is the support class of this meta…
3) Condition is Supposed to be able to inflict damage. If the enemy can clean all your conditions you’ll not be able to inflict any damage. You can do faster removing them from the game.
Also, 8 classes over 9 (maybe 7/9 because the revenant now is strong) use direct damage because conditions are too easy countered, expecially in team fights. That will mean something…
4) Teleports can be a pain and the thief can abuse of them. But increase a little the cost of teleport and all will be ok. There’s a large amount of movement skills in this game and they can make the difference in a lot of fights but not always. For shure they’re useful.
For that reason there’s classes that have a lot of them and classes that don’t have any or only few (or any good, as the necromancer).
5) it already is…
6) CC tes they’re a little too much, expecially for some classes like warrior or ranger, but with a good timing and reaction you can evade/block/clean/…. your enemy stun/immobilize/…. and be free. There’s some builds that focus on lock you down but they inflict lesser damage than the others. Frequently is a build choice.
7) Class design…
yes, some classes have too much defensive and offensive abilities. There’s not so much to do. In this game you can chose all the skills you want and all the traits combination you need to make you unkillable and still be able to inflict huge damage. in that game you’ll never be able to stop that and is not so necessary. In pve you need ojnly to burst, in www to run, AoE and survive, in sPvP to survive and Burst. Till you’ll be able to do that you’re the king of the hill.
But ANet did a lot of nerfs in the survavibility of different classes, as the endure pain for the warriors that now last for 2 seconds and have shorter CD. That will grant them lesser invulnerability to the main damage of this game and will make them die easier and faster, still making them able to Cc and burst you as before.
ANet did a lot of reworks since the HoT launch and they did really good things. Expecially if you think how hard is balance a game that on the paper is totally impossible to balance.
You don’t have a single class to rework, you have a “mass of classes” to rework for every single one. You have to rework every traitline, every skill, every weapon focusing to the point that every class can do everything. is the core of this game mechanic and his pain. You can be a bunker, direct damage dps (able to inflict burst damage or to inflictdamage for longer time), condition damage dps(able to inflict burst damage ordamage for longer time), hybrid, hybrid bunker, healer, supporter (with boons, CC, debuff). And in sPvP there’s even more roles as the decapper, the holder and the burst.
And all that on every single class.
There’s so much things to look that is totally impossible to make a balance of everything.
That’s the reason that made ANet make the Elite Specializzations, to make a stop into that chaos. And they did it but it’s still impossible to balance because there’s still too many possible builds to do that make every class unbalanced by itself.
its funny because it doesnt even matter if you run a gaurdian with MAXIMUM [insert damage type here] clear/mitigation.
if you fight a [insert class/build prevalent in mentioned damage type] you will still be completely slathered in [insert damage type] NO MATTER WHAT
doesnt matter what prof ur playing.
doesnt matter what build youre playing
you will be completely slathered in [insert damage type] no matter what.
its not fun whatsoever to play against
i only play gw2 for pve now.
pvp is not fun whatsoever.
It works for just about everything.
theres two damage types.
condi and direct damage.
building vitality/toughness and using boons like protection mitigates direct just fine.
building vitality and using condi cleanse hardly makes a difference to condis.
so no.
If you want to be totally immune to conditions, that’s not balance, is just a L2P “i don’t want to be killed by conditions!”
Conditions can kill you as direct damage do, just slowly and hardly.
Against every single build in this game, if I lose, I last longer against a condition build than against a direct damage build.
Direct damage still kill you easier and faster than conditions. if it is not, then the enemy is using a hybrid build and killing you with both direct and condition damage.
Conditions have to be able to kill you and you can’t clean them all. Just learn to clean the “condibomb” if the class is able to make one, then all the other damage is a normal damage. Just wayt to clean more stacks instead of clean the first 2 and die against the other 20
Revenant got some good news and now is able to have 2 different builds (direct damage and condi). We have to find out if it will be a god-tier class or not, but for shure it will be good.
Necromancer will never dominate the scene due to the insane amount of classes that simply counter it by default (any warrior will kill a necromancer easy and fast, expecially after the stability nerf, a really Huge nerf for a class with so low access to that precious boon).
Necro obtained some boon on direct damage and we’ll se more of them in play, but that was still only few QoL needed buff, nothing more. And the Elite Plagueland in sPvP is more like a nerf than an improvement. with the old elite you had double toughness and was able to spam blind and stability, now you have a 10 sec “well” that spam conditions but need time to be able to inflict any real damage: you need 5 seconds to start to inflict any good damage and no one will stay on your elite for so long. Is another skill like the RS5+RS4 combo: strong if the enemy is bad enough to let you hit him with your full combo, a waste of time if the enemy have a little of brain and just dodge/block your skill and move away. And to make that skill dangerous in a team fight the necro have to go right in the middle of the fight. And a necro in the middle of a team fight have really few chances to go away alive.
There’s nothing really strong enough in the changes for the Necromancers to make them really viable, or even to make them rule this meta.
Mallyx revenant will take the place of the necromancer as a boon remover (can’t convert stability into fear but will spam a large amount of confusion AoE and clean boons while activing a Movement skill, and with the new QoL fixes that’s more than enough to make it better than a necromancer for a team). And also will inflict better condition damage. better dps, better movement, huge boon remover, better survavibility, group support with boon spam using the elite, can counter condition damage, don’t need to be ressed every moment. Way better than a necromancer.
About the Thief, they can spam huge damage and also steal boons all the time with a single sigil (3s cd is not so much for a class that can spam interrupts all day long)
They will rule the meta.
Conditions are easy to apply but also easy to clean. There’s so much skill/trait/sigil/rune/boon that help to clean/resist conditions 8on yourself and also AoE) that in some situations is really hard to kill someone with conditions.
For that reason a large amount of builds that play condition have to increase the number of conditions they apply just to be able to inflict damage with them. increasing the number of conditions instead of stacks you’re shure that a common clean skill will not reduce to 0 all your damage, making you useless.
That’s the reason that make Burn Guardina one of the worst condition classes ever. If the enemy don’t have condi clear or run out of them you can inflict good damage, otherwise you’re totally unable to inflict any damage at all.
If you want to kill conditions and build diversity, increase the num,ber of condi clean or power up them. But just know that there’s already only few builds that use conditions, everyone that can play as a direct damage play as it because is easier to inflict damage (or at last you’re shure that your damage will fully land and not be reduced to 0 by clean or resistance).
The only way to tone down condition is also reduce condi clean skills.
Condition damage builds Have to be able to kill you, but there’s too much conditions. Then reduce the amount of conditions in the game but also the amount of condi clean, to make them still viable.
The problem is: in a meta where there’s so few condition classes and 90% of times you die is for a direct damage burst and not for conditions, what if I’m under a Druid immobilize and want to clean it to dodge and instead i clean 3 stack of bleed because they have the priority still if totally ignorable?
unless there’s a tool to make you chose and change your condition priority, I prefer to have a chance to clean an immobilize instead of few useless stacks of bleed.
And you can’t make a real viable statistic of the most dangerous conditions in this game because every class use them in different ways and amounts and every match force you to fight different opponents with different builds.
Is like ask for Corruption to corrupt always first Stability-Resistance-Might-……
That will make them seriously OP.
Generic Cleanse can’t be fixed, you only have to be lucky.
If I see a necro using axe/x and that elite, I can only fear the blind, nothing more. You will die easy and fast anyway and I will recive more or less no damage (how much condition damage can you recive from a similar skill used by a direct damage class?)
or I can just active resistance if I’m a war, making all that elite a joke.
If I really think that it’s a problem, I can also kill you by range, expecially if I’m a thief and use P/P or similar builds.
It’s a good skill for condi builds and for the blind spam. Not for shure for a direct damage build.
Plaguelands is not a really good elite, but it can be used by a condition damage build and be used in some build. Maybe in WvW or in some static PvE dungeons.
For all the axe things, I play Power reaper in sPvP and I really appreciate the changes on the Axe! Now I can hope to inflict a good/high damage as all the other classes can do. We inflict up to 25% basic damage on an enemy that take 25% more damage. That’s a lot and will be good both for PvP and PvE. A really appreciate thing for every power Reaper in sPvP and PvE. Also the other changes on the Axe are good, we only need some fixes to make them work.
The changes on infusing Terrors isn’t the best I hoped because reduce the incoming damage but… It feel like incomplete… It’s not a immunity, is only a little damage mitigation skill. In sPvP during a team fight that skill will help but will not change the fact that you will die fast and easy as always. Maybe you’ll last 2 seconds longer, but even lesser stability, making you easier to be corrupted and CCed down.
The change to Epidemic killed it, totally killed it. In PvP is useless and in PvE can be reflected by mobs, killing you all the time. The idea isn’t bad but the realizzation is really terrible.
There’s a lot of other minor changed that are hard to know, as the self inflicting bleed on the dagger3 Dark Pact, that is only a poor joke to make you use it and then active the dagger2 Life Siphon, that don’t really make sense because you will inflict more or less the same amount of heal you add to the skill, if you’re not full healing (and there’s not a single necromancer using heal out there…)
(edited by Silv.9207)
When the season will start, Power reaper. Actually is the best build because is viable in more situations than the condition build. If you have support and you’re shure to not be dead in 4 seconds, the condition build can be better for your team.
Talking about damage… The necromancer inflict medium (or eventually low) damage, his condi combo is easy to avoid and need 4 seconds to land. The direct damage is faster (still if slow) because use the Axe channel skill and eventually the GS (but only for fun).
If you play with friends in unranked you can go condi and be good, if you do ranked alone go power.
Anyway, “Competitive” and “Necromancer” in the actual meta totally don’t match.
Warrior is for shure the best choice because adapt better to a large amount of situations, have high burst damage and sustain (play it in direct damage, is better than conditions).
If you’re at low tiers, play also Dragonhunter, but at higher levels it’s lesser efficent because there’s a lot of tricks that can make an enemy totally ignore the DH defences. Also warriors and classes with CC will kill you easy. One trick is: with the warrior, stay in front of the guardian and spam 100Blades with the GS, the range of that weapon will make you hit the guardian even if he use his protective AoE shield (F3). or active the skills that make you unblockable, the guardian will be unable to protect himself from your burst and CC and you’ll be able to kill him easy and fast.
If you want to try, the Thief at high level is more or less unkillable if you know how to play it, you have so much skills to spam and evade/dodge/stealth/block to make you unkillable in every 1v1. At the best you can make a thief flee but you will never kill one (if is good).
Another class that is seriously Op but no one really think it is is the Ranger with the elite Druid. Play dps witht he LB and HoT pets, you will be able to heal every condition or direct damage burst in a second, your pet inflict insane damage, you hiflict huge damage and have a large amount of defensive skills, stealth and movement.
In my opinion the Ranger is the stronger class for sPvP we actually have because is insanely strong in 1v1, can fight really good in team, grant support/heal to allies, have a large amount of sustain, high mobility and even when you’re under a CC pressure your pet hit like a truck, granting you to inflict damage all the time.
But is harder to play than the warrior, that is more or less “kill or die” (but with so much damage and sustain that is hard to die).
necromancer is amazing. There’s so much builds you can do and every build work really good for what it is intended. MM, power, vampiric, healer (you can do a healer build with reaper), condition, aoe centered condition, fear, corruption skills, boon corruption, bunker 8both direct and condition).
The necromancer is the Only class that have all his skills (or for shure more than 75% of them) useful in some possible build and the class that can do more roles in this game.
Sadly, is the only class doomed to don’t have any kind of boon support, have a mediocre damage both in direct and condition (it’s an Attrition class, as ANet want, not a dps class), the bunker build can be good only in pve and while bunker the damage go to 0 (making it totally useless in pve…), in WvW can’t roam (unless you’re a ultra super skilled pro that find mediocre players or good players not in the mood to fight another good player), don’t have mobility in any reasonable way, don’t have any kind of defensive skills, making us the easier class to kill in every PvP situation (expecially in sPvP), in sPvP our only role is corrupt stability and then die and be ressed by someone (then repeat, and repeat, and repeat), LF is good but in sPvP is more a problem than a resource, unless your team is able to fight in 4v5 for the first minutes of the match granting you time to charge your lfbar, the GS grant us a high dps but still subpar if paired with any other dps class and is frequently just bad because you’re only dps chance is spam gravedigger and if you miss a hit you lose your dps for 8 seconds (reason why a large amount of direct damage builds in pve use dagger/wh+vampiric, that inflict higher and easier damage) and our condition damage is good now only because ANet granted us 3 cleed every chill instead of 1 (but only in PvE) but anyway we have a lower condi damage if compared to other classes.
On the paper the necromancer is a perfect class able to make thounsand builds, be able to fight in every situation and counter every enemy, but is not stronger enough to make that theory true and lose in every single situation because there’s a lot of classes that do it better (and frequently better on a totally different level). No dps, no group sustain, no group support, only a defensive selfcentered meatshield with the Shroud.
That’s the problem of the necromancer: is good in almost everything but shine in nothing.
I saw a image of the specializzation and if i don’t remember wrong it was in the right hand. But the img could be as a mirror, then it could be a offhand…
I read in a leaked link that the elite will cast a “jar” that will adsorb all the LF you collect and the soul of every enemy that die near it. Then tehre will be skills to move it and an Fx that will grant you all the LF collected, granting you a sort of Shroud that will empower you (but don’t know if it will reduce the damage or will adsorb the damage as the actual shroud do).
Said that, it will be similar to the revenant Legendary centaure stance with the Tablet. But don’t know if it will be more moveable or lesser.
Basicly, for what i read (and that was really poor informations) we’ll obtain a strong but extremely immobile elite specializzation, maybe able to ground control effects, as the engi turret was tome ago, or as the centaur stance had to be for the revenant.
if that will be true, we’ll obtain a broken unworking mechanic for a new elite specializzation and another mechanic that will be bad, then will be really extremely strong and then again nerfed to the ground.
And no, i don’t think ANet will ever fix all our movement and defensive problems. We’re supposed to be slow, with no/low stability and with mediocre damage. We’re an attrition class, and the Only chained to it’s theme.
Power build or go home!
At the start of the game there was arena for 5-8-10-12 players. They used hotjoin to test the best number of players for a team fight.
5 grant you enough players to control and steal points, force you to make a team strategy and to improve as a single and as a team player. Everyone have a role and the strategy have to be strong to make you win. Expecially in organizated teams.
Oh, sorry, there’s no more teams in this team based game, i always forgot this point…
8v8 was already too much, making AoE spam classes too strong because at the start of the battle you found fights of 7v7 in the middle and was too much. Also because when the enemy team was killed they had much more problems to join back and fight all together to take the point.
Also a lot of players already cry for 2 DH stacked together, think of 3-4 DH that spam traps in the mid with a dps ele with staff or a necro with wells, with only one or two bunker builds to survive at everything and hold the point.
I think that at last there can be a chance for 6v6, nothing more.
But yes, I’d like to see a huge fight
Power meta never bring more build diversity in the past and never will do in the future.
Back in time there was only that 1-2 builds (2 if you’re lucky) and everyone played that build, while everyonelse was just wiped out or unwanted in every single team.
Condition changes made the game more versatile than ever, granting a new source of damage to kill the enemy, where before it was only a funny side effect of some skills, granting a little more dps but nothing good enough to kill someone.
Ask to nerf conditions is ask to remove that single condition build you have for “every” class and that already more or less no one use. Nothing more.
No new shinig builds, no more build diversity, only reduce every class from a meta dps build + a secondary dps build to a only one build and stop.
Also, meta builds have a lot of condition clean skills and traits not to kittener the condition Damage but to counter the condition spam of rangers (that spam immobilize every 10 seconds that last 5 seconds, an insanely Op trait that no one nerfed and I don’t know why), necro (that corrupt boons and then you need a skill to clean fear and weakness, and eventually poison and at last chill), warriors (still if now is a side effect more than a real damage source), thieves, and eventually some random conditions from all the other classes as cripple, chill, slow and other CC conditions.
basicly 90% of the conditions you find in sPvP are CC or side effect condi, not real damaging conditions.
If you’re bursted down by someone (and that game now is based on burst damage) you can be shure that one is not using conditions.
At the start, Resistance was implemented only on the warrior and Only because ANet wanted to “nerf” Berserker Stance, making it “counterable”. It was so strong against any kind of condition build that they made the skill spam Resistance, nerfing it by a Lot. No more immunity to conditions but resistant to it, making the ability susceptible to boon corrupt/remove/steal skills (still with low to none effect because the stance spam it every 3 sec) and making the warrior accumulate conditions, granting a full condi dps or effects to who use conditions to inflict damage or CC/debuf when the boon end, instead of start by zero.
That was not an add on but a Nerf.
Then they added it as a Peronal mechanic for the Revenant, more or less as they did for Alacrity, giving it more or less only to the Chronomancer.
Then, tell that so much classes can use Resistance is a pure lie. They can’t active it, they can’t chose when to use it, they can’t manage a skill cooldown to use it, they only convert it from a debuff, eventually with a lot of luck if they have a lot of conditions. It’s a Side Effect of a skill, not a boon granted to that classes to make them able to use it.
Is the same then as if you say that this classes also obtained Alacrity. they just don’t obtained Resistance or Alacrity, not at all.
Anyway, restore burn, poison and condi stack as it was long time ago would only make conditions die. And we just obtained it after 4 years of pure condition damage classes (with only few condi spam builds immediatly nerfed to the ground, as the dhuumfire necro or the spirit ranger).
Actually conditions are balanced or at last Underperforming for a Lot of classes.
If you look to the amount of classes that truly use conditions. Only 1 class over 9 use it properly.
Engis chose it only for fun, warriors chose direct because is stronger and grant them way better sustain and necro…they are just so bad no one cares of necros, and they play direct damage because grant them better sustain than condi and no risk to be cleaned/resisted and do zero damage.
Another condi L2P thread?
1) Condition damage have to kill you the same way Direct damage do, or you’ll never ever see again a condi build in this game (as it was for two years, where there was only direct damage and no one used conditions, not even necromancers or mesmers)
2) In a burst meta, if you try to play a slow killing build you’ll only die easy and fast, there’s not any way to keep you alive enough to support a condition nerf as you ask to do
3) Conditions have a LOT of counters, you can use: weapon skills, heal, utilities, elite, trait, Resistance, sigils and runes, you just have to chose the better skills to use and you’ll never be bursted by a condi class
4) Conditions are applied by Skills and that skills can be dodged, evaded, blocked, blinded, you can use terrain to block the line of ranged skills. The only thing they do is inflict they’re damage in X seconds rather than when the skill hit.
5) Following the point n°4, a direct damage revenant can spam AA and inflict you 3k/hit (with 90% critical rate and berserker or 2.5k with any other offensive amulet), a necromancer, mesmer or warrior can’t inflict more than 1k but delayed in time. Also there’s skills for a lot of classes that inflict more than 5k, much more than any condition skill can do, with the same problems to hit but much more counters.
Basicly, direct damage inflict better damage and when the skill hit, a condition damage inflict lesser damage and delayed in time. The only problem is that you only see the total damage after a lot of time and not when the skill hit.
learn to see the real damaging skills, block/dodge/blind/invul or clean them and you’ll be able to fight any condition class easier than any direct damage class of this game
6) Condi is Not bunker. Not anymore. Direct damage amulets have more or less the same defensive chances as a Condition one, granting you to survive with more or less the same defensive statistics. back in time there was a huge difference in defensive statistics between direct and condi amulets, now there’s only a little difference.
7) Condition damage Need Expertise but can’t use it. There’s so much condi clean and Resist in this game that is futile chose a similar statistic. It will increase the damage as ferocity do for direct damage but increasing the time the condition last. But there’s only few situations where a condition last for his full duration, expecially in a team fight. That’s the reason why only few players chos amulets with expertise. They need it but can’t use it.
8) Resistance. A simple boon that make a entire kind of damage totally useless. Actually only revenant and warriors can spam it but condi reve aren’t good enough to fight direct damage class then you’ll not see so much of them. But any warrior can kill a condition class easy and fast, reducing all his damage to 0 for up to 16 seconds, with also a lot of block skills and an insane amount of condi clean (in berserker a warrior can clean 3 conditions every 2.5 seconds)
9) Of 9 classes, only 1 play purely as a condition damage, all the others frequently chose direct damage because is better, faster or grant more self sustain (as for necromancer). There’s a reason why 8 classes over 9 use direct damage and don’t use conditions, don’t you think?
I repeat all the time that the solution for this problem is totally rebuild the queue system for ranked.
That can be done easy and fast but you have to cancel the solo/duo queue (that everyone asked and everyone hate).
Improve the LFG system and make only groups to join ranked, and that they have to be formed of different classes (removing the class stacking problem), making players unable to change character while in match, removing the re-join that grnat players to change they’re classes.
That will make the higher rank the rank of the team, increase the chance to find good players and form good teams, improve the teamplay (just because the game is team based both in point system and in class fixes and roles) and reduce the chance to find high level against low level, making different queue for every rank level (legendary/platinum, gold, silver, etc).
If you start play a necromancer you already know that the victory is far far away from you.
Anyway, the match making is not made to make you win, only to “help” bad players to not be matched with too much bad players, grasnting them a chance to learn, improve and win few matches sometimes.
Then, the game, as it is now, if you find good players or/and good class composition you win, if you find bad players or/and bad class composition you lose.
And there’s always a thing that ANet can’t control: players. ANet can’t force players to be good only to make you win.
Basicly, if you don’t play a class that can Carry the team to win you can’t play and hope to win all the matches. And if you play a class like a necromancer you can’t not even hope to win so much matches… Sadly true…
Before the solo/duo queue there was a chance to make a team and play this game as it was designet, as the classes had been designed and fixed, but now… the only thing you can do when queue on a match is hope to find better players than the enemy team and better class composition.
Nothing more, not at all.
That’s only a roulette, expecially if you don’t play a carry class (as warrior, thief, ranger, for example).
Just play and hope to be lucky, nothing more.
Atm, Guardian at low level, then Warrior, Thief and Druid. Thief is hard to master but when you do you kill everyone or at last become totally unkillable. The same with the Druid, you become unkillable and have even better dps and can hold the point if you need to.
If you like toe support role, a good elementalist make a team win. In a match, if a team have an ele and the other one don’t, the second one lose at 90%.
Don’t chose Necomancer for any reason on this world.
Also mesmers are bad to carry, but still better to play.
If you want to play the reaper you can start with unlock some skills and traits, then you can play as you want. If you want to play that build still without all the traits and skills you can do without so much problems.
just have fun :-)
Celestial will bring back a large amount of old builds that was Op back in time, but now overpowered by HoT elite specializzations.
A cele ele will be OP by itself just because actually is the class with the best support and defensive ability, with the celestial that ability will increase by a lot, granting also a lot of dps, making it OP.
Diamond skin was reworked but not seriously nerfed. Every second you clean a condition plus every time you attune to water or give regeneration to yourself or an ally. Plys utility and weapon skills. That seems to be only the best way ever to counter a condition class, don’t you think. And that work untill you have 75% or more hp, granting a chance to use this trait longer than the old diamond skin. it’s not really a nerf, only a rework. In 1v1 you’ll barely feel the difference, and you’ll feel conditions on you only in a 4v4 fight against a lot of condition classes. But actually there’s not so much condition classes to grant you any pain (8 classes over 9 in soloQ use direct damage builds, just to say).
The cele ele will turn back and rock as never before.
BUT it that was only the elementalist to be able to use the celestial amulet we’ll be able to let him have it and restore the old build, destroying any kind of build diversity for this class. Who will ever chose a different build that the OP one that grant you high dps, high support and insane survavibility all at once?
If it was so hard to play there will not be any problem, but any unskilled player (maybe not a total newbye) was able to do great with that build, back in pre-hot seasons, it was not so hard to master to kill barely everyone on your way and be unkillable. I’m really bad with eles but I was able to kill a large amount of players in 1v1 and to survive to 3v1 easy with that build, without any experience on this class.
Anyway, the problem is not only the elementalist. The actual Berserker with celestial will double the damage it actually do with higher survavibility, any reaper will turn back and be finally really viable and kill your elementalist (making you cry again, one of the reasont that class was nerfed, back in time, still with no real reasons), guardians will chose that amulet to inflict both direct and burn damage, mesmers will love to have it back, spamming confusion and bursting you with direct damage at the same time. Engineers? They’ll find it the perfect way to be an unkillable decapper bunker, as they was before. Druids with celestial? They will LOVE it!!! Do you want to make them totally unkillable? Give them the celestial and you’ll see what a druid can do. They was bunkerysh and with a high dps still before hot, now that they have a insane source of heal, condi clean and stealth and a pet that inflict an insane amount of damage by itself, give them back the celestial amulet will make them the OP class ever made.
I don’t want to ruin you hope to bring back a elementalist able to support, be a bunker and kill everyone he want at the same time, but if you bring back the celestial amulet in this game you’ll regret it for a long long time.
You’ll turn back to be at the same tier you actually are, or even at a lower tier.
The celestial amulet was strong for the “elementalist only” just before the release of HoT elite specializzations. Now the celestial amulet will bring an OP state to war, druid, mesmer and other classes than the elementalist that it will turn to be a low tier class if compared to them.
I don’t hate the celestial elementalist, I was one of the necromancers that had fun killing them pre-hot, I fear the OPness of the other classes if they get that kitten ed amulet.
Eles was not destroyed, the only thing removed was the cele ele, and a rework on Diamond Skin (that is not a nerf, only a reasonable rework).
Ele should obtain a different role, that’s correct, but I also want a different role for my necro than spam corrupts and die. I’m asking for that since long time ago. nothing happen. but we still hope!
Ele still can play different roles than healbot, you can play staff dps or fresh air build. they’re viable, if you use the correct utility to survive and flee. For shure not the best dps of this meta but still viable, with high defensive skills and high aoe/single target damage (depending on the build).
you can play a different role, the “problem” is that the ele is so good to be a healbot that you’ll be forced to play that because every player will ask you to heal.
The ele is a healbot but still able to inflict damage, the meta build use the Mender amulet, that grant you high Power and good precision. If you add a permanent Fury, you’re able to inflict a seriously good direct damage if you make some practice with skill rotation.
The ele meta isn’t a pure healbot as the cleric guardian was for years, forced to be only a support class and nothing more for ages, you can hit hard and fast with the lightning attunement (the overcharge inflict a really good aoe direct damage, for example).
Yes, it’s not strong as the warrior but it’s the bunker build that inflict the better damage ever of this last seasons, granting you the best survavibility and team utility of this game.
A good ele can really make his team win, you’re not “only a healbot”, you’re the heart of your team. if you survive your team survive.
You got some nerfs because ele was able to inflict damage as a dps, survive as a bunker and heal as a support, spamming might and condi clean all the time (with auras everywhere since the HoT release).
Claim back the Celestial is not the answer.
ask for a better rework on weapons, for better synergie between your traits, ask for better utility skills, but not to have back the celestial to become OP again.
The ele still have more defensive skills than all the other classes and can inflict a really good damage with different dps builds. There’s seriously no need to have back the celestial amulet.
Warrior is strong and actually is the only one truly able to play in full berserker “without problems”.
but there’s ways to kill them. If you survive enough to see the end of they’re stances or if they don’t have it ready (stances have a lot of cooldown), you can kill him.
Also Stances grant a partial invulnerability, granting him invulnerability to condition, direct or cc, not everything at once. That is the reason that make them able to act as usual still while invulnerable. Then they can spam stability and condi clean, but that’s a Berserker prerogative since it’s creation. It was made to totally counter condition classes and basicly there’s not actually a better class to do that. Another point is that there’s no more condition classes to counter… (the conly classes that play condi are mesmer and necro and necro don’t need more counters because every single class can kill a necro, then there’s only the mesmer and if the mesmer is catch out of guard is a fast kill for the warrior)
The warrior can pass through block and that’s one of the many reasons the warrior is the perfect counter for a guardian (also for is stuns and mobility).
Engis and guardians have a lot of Block and few Immunity skills, that let them able to contest a point still while “invulnerable”. As I know, the only thing that make a player unable to contest is Stealth.
For shure the war is one of the best class in this meta and frequently can kill you without too much effort, but at high levels it change a little because classes like ranger or mesmer (if played by a skilled player) can kill a warrior without too much problems, they only take a little longer than with other classes.
Then, the main problem of the Opener was that he’s forced to play as a healer?
A lot of classes had they’re role in this game and still have one.
The ele was a insanely bunker class with insane dps and heal, something that have to not happen again.
The problem is that that class was strong and funny, with basicly no counters and able to kill everyone. And eles, obviously, wants to turn back to be on top tier.
I’m sad but now the ele have to chose between heal/support and a dps build that let him vulnerable as every other class, with still a lot of defensive and really viable skills that grant him to survive and flee if he need.
If you add Cele:
-Ele will turn back to be Top tier without any real counter.
-Warriors will find they’re way to inflict insane direct and condition damage with even beter survavibility than what they actually have, becoming insanely stronger than now (and now they’re on the top 3)
-Rangers will become totally unkillable, you will never ever be able to kill one, while they will lose only few damage.
Necromancer will finally find a good way to be good. But everything will become even stronger, making them stay down (again), without even the chance to be a cele counter as they was back in time (a lot of changes happen since that time).
Engi will become insanely bunkerish
Basicly everything will turn back to be bunker, every class that was OP with Cele will beocme even more OP because of the elite specializzations and the game will slow down and turn back to be a bunker game.
Please, don’t let this game turn back to that time, we already have too much hybrid and “bunker” classes, don’t add others.
I play sPvP and necromancer is always a easy class to kill. If you do a 1v1 against a necro you’re shure to win, unless the necro have a full Lf and you di some mistakes. I don’t know a class unable to kill one. (maybe the revenant after his little nerfs, but they can still burst you down fast).
Is good in group to spam chill and do some corruption, while able to inflict a good amount of damage (if you don’t play condi). But any focus can burst you down in 4 seconds without any mercy, making you useless against a coordinate or experienced pug team.
Is a really hard class to play and grant to the team really poor things compared to all the thing he need to survive or be useful in a fight.
In PvE the necromancer don’t have a high dps (both in condi or direct damage), don’t have any kind of support (only vampiric and few poor things), unless you play in some specific raids his boon corruption is totally useless and the only thing he can do is survive a little better than some other classes.
Epidemic is good but to inflict a really good aoe damage you need at last another condition class to obtain some Real condition damage to spam. 3 bleed from every chill can grant you a good damage, but it’s not enough if compared to more or less all the other classes.
In WvW is good as a dps with wells and AoE with the old Death Shroud power build. I don’t know in roaming, but with his totally lack of defensive and mobility skills is really hard find a necro good enough to kill anyone. If the enemy is near to die a simple hide or movement skill can grant him the safety at 100%, then after the healing cd he can turn back ot kill you while you had wasted your LF for nothing.
There’s really few things a necromancer is good to, and frequently they’re not so useful.
Some kind of improvement in our damage should be good. But, as always, out theme keep us back. And we’re the only class locked down by his theme. (guardian dps, just to say…)
A druid with Lb can burst you down in 2 seconds with LB2 and F2, immobilizing you with LB4 and making you unable to dodge the hit. Out of that it’s the class with the second best survavibility of this meta (the first one for me is the thief, that in the hands of a good player can be really unkillable, both if win or lose the fight).
High mobility, strong burst, huge CC, a lot of condi clean, stealth, there’s few things that a druid can’t do.
The only thing atm I want to see nerfed on the Druid is the totally insane Immobilize. Seriously: 5 seconds+bleed every 10 seconds? You can spend half of the fight immobile!
That’s the best trait of the game, grant you defence (you can flee easy) and offence (the enemy can’t dodge or move) and have the lowest cooldown ever known for a so strong condition.
Increase the cooldown to 25 seconds or increase the cooldown to 15 and reduce the immobilize to 3 seconds will fix the problem.
Staff is an utility weapon and it will always be. We asked for a rework thousand times and we obtained a little improvement some time ago, but that weapon is not a dps weapon.
You can think of it as the guardian staff: no damage but support. The difference between they’re staff and ours is that guardian can really use it to support the team while we can’t.
The staff was used as a “dps” weapon some time ago, before hot, when there was the Real condition meta. We was able to store conditions with Plague Signet and then send them to an enemy with staff 4, killing him with our enemies damage. It’s function remain the same and perfectly work if combined with plague signet, but now the amount of damaging conditions are low and the duration of that damage short (still if the damage is high, you can think to the warrior mace condi burst).
The only reason to use the staff is for the LF generation, that grant 3%LF when a Mark is triggered. NOT for every enemy you hit but ONLY for it’s activation. With our lack of LF generation in sPvP and our lack of defensive skills, that’s the best way to build up LF, unless you’re an axe power build with Blighter’s Boon and the signet that grant you might every 1 sec when you do a crit, then you no more need the staff for LF. But it’s good for condi remove/send-back because in that case the amount of condi removes is based on the amount of enemy you hit.
And fear, that is our class mark, still if useless against warriors with resistance and classes/builds with stability or some breakstun.
The staff was never supposed to inflict any good damage because in the past (condi meta) the ability to send back conditions was by itself the best dps ability of the necromancer, granting him all the damage he needed to kill anyone. Now it’s an utility weapon and no more. Marks can be unblockable, but unless for the 4 and 5 you will never really need that because the 2 and 3 damage is so weak that no one will ever fear to be hit by one of your marks.
If a warrior see you using the staff he just active resistance or stability and charge you without any fear, killing you without mercy in few seconds.
Basicly, we’re struck with a utility weapon good only for two skills and LF generation that don’t grant us any kind of damage and frequently any kind of real advantage over our enemy.
At last in sPvP. In WvW is different because the staff is the base of the common well build right for it’s AoE skill 1 and LF generation. And with berserker/valkirie equipment also that AA can inflict some damage, still if weak.
Players hate conditions because “conditions don’t have to kill you”, nothing more. For 3 years conditions was barely useless in sPvP and since the condition rework they got buffed so much to make players able to kill someone with it, or do high damage.
At the start, conditions was really OP, but now there’ so much ways to clean/ignore conditions that they’re barely useful using the chronomancer. Also, at the start condi amulets was more bunkerish than direct damage ones, but now that’s no more true, condi amulets have only a little more defence if you take the carrion, all the others are totally similar to direct damage amulets.
About damage, condition builds can inflict really more damage over a long time if compared to direct damage builds, but only if the enemy don’t clean/resist it. Actually every single class have at last two ways to clean conditions and some can really spam condi clean all the time (ele and war for example) or Resistance (war and reve), making condi builds more and more countered.
Direct damage have a little lower dps in long fight but every direct builds can Burst, inflict a insane amount of damage in few seconds, killing players easier than with condis, that need more time to inflict they’re full damage and can be countered easier.
Actually 6 classes over 9 use only direct damage but war and necro frequently chose to go direct damage because they perform better in SoloQ and have lesser counters for they’re damage.
The condition hate is totally useless because there’s only one class that go full condi in this meta.
Plague Signet, before HoT.
That skill remember me the time where there was the real condition meta and we was the best counter to who played that builds.
Accumulate confusion and burn from mesmers and ele and then send it back to see a poor thief die in 3 seconds, or wait for the full burst of a burn guardian and then send all his 15 stacks of burn at once… Sweet memories
As a necromancer you can’t kill anyone in this meta in 1v1.
This has to be a joke!
Necros are very capable of 1v1. With DH, all that matters is not walking into their traps and carefully waiting to burst during a window of opportunity.
I’m playing dragonhunter now and, seriously, i never lost against a necromancer. Or only when i was with all my skills on cooldown (but every class die with his skills in cooldown).
The necro try to keep the distance? Not a problem! The DH have better dps and defence from range than the necro, and when the trap skills cd end is just the time to spear of justice>sword teleport>trap>shielkittennock back>F1 pull>LB3>>> profit, the necro is dead. if he active his stability just wait a little more, run around, active your F3 and repeat the trick. Not so hard.
If you need you can use your teleport to breakstun, your healing trap, fight some more and kite a little when he go in reaper shroud (cripple him and there’s nothing easier to flee from as a necromancer). Necromancer don’t have any good burst skill, expecially if condition, and until you don’t active your F3 (obtaining stability, if traited) he don’t have any good thing to corrupt.
In 1v1 there’s not a easier class to kill as the necromancer.
There’s a reason if there’s no more bunker builds: there’s no more bunker amulets
Add back the celestial amulet and every elementalist, ranger, warrior, mesmer and necromancers will turn back to that amulet in time zero, making the bunker era come again.
Actually the only good condi build is Chronomancer.
The other good condi build is the Berserker condi, but almost all now prefer to go with direct damage because have more burst and don’t fear clean, send back or Resistance, that will totally make your damage fall to 0 (expecially for Resistance, that totally negate all your condition damage or effects).
Necromancer is not a bunker class, is the easier class to kill in this game, and if you die against one in 1v1 is totally a L2P issue, basicly no one lose against a necromancer in this meta.
If a necromancer bursted you you had really to be bad and eat all his (only) dps combo (Rs5+Rs4, that need 4 seconds of execution). The only way it can burst you is transfering conditions with plague signet or staff 4 (or dagger offhand 4, but no one use it) and it’s not totally a class strength, only a class mechanic barely useful in a meta where only chronomancers run condi and there’s really few damaging conditions to transfer to “bomb” someone.
About guardian burn, if you run out of condi clean and a guardian do his full burst you will die, but if you have at last a single condi clean you will just clean all his damage and then he’s unable to inflict any good damage for more than 20 seconds. You’ll be able to close the fight in lesser than 20 seconds, expecially if the guardian use the Pure guardian burn build, that use the core class or you know how to fight a dragonhunter.
Condition damage is not weak but there’s so much condi clean/transfer/immunity that barely no one want to risk to do 0 damage only to run condition.
Also, the condition amulets are no more all that tanky as before compared to the actual direct damage amulets, making them not so much tanky (and some times squishy compared to a direct damage class).
Condi ranger and condi engi are just without defence, glass cannons that inflict a huge burst but then can’t inflict all that damage and, more important, are so easy to kill that no one want to use these builds.
Cry about condition damage in a meta where there’s always fewer condition builds is a joke.
This game ideology is to make every class able to do everything. Dps, support, healer, mybrid, direct damage, condition, with some classes better for one things and other for others. Then come the elite specializzations that granted to some classes to do totally new roles (mesmer bunker, warrior with condition damage, thief bunker with perma-evade, engi melee dps, and more).
The Necromancer is the Only class in this game that can’t do that “everything”.
PvE:
Our dps is bad, just bad. We can’t support our team, both in a offensive or defensive way, just because the only thing we’re able to is spam weakness but also other classes can spam it (two warriors -top dps- in team and you will never need a low dps necromancer to spam weakness). We can corrupt boons… but… where’s the boons to corrupt? Only few in some raids, but also a revenant with mallyx can do that, while able to inflict higher damage, or a mesmer (mesmer was the first class able to remove boons from the enemy, just to say).
We can survive better as solo, but in team we’re unable to be healed while in shroud, losing all the survavibility a elementalist can grant to all the other classes, making them survive better than us.
But ehy, we have Epidemic! But medium condition damage, then we need at last another condi class to obtain a high effect with that skill.
WvW (zerg, I don’t practice so much roaming with my necro, I just get killed by any thief that run around making joke of me with perma stealth and mobility)
We’re able to spam wells to inflict good damage and corrupt boons. Nothing more. If someone chose to kill us we’re dead, the same as in sPvP, or even easier because if you’re good you kill first necros, even in zerg (if I catch a necro on my target i focus him and kill him fast and easy).
sPvP: we’re able to corrupt boons, but nothing more. We totally depend on LF to survive and inflict good damage. If we don’t have anough LF we die or we’re unable to end our RS5+RS4 combo (that take 4 seconds to fully land). Out of Shroud we’re the easiest class to kill and our damage is at a medium level.
Also our boon corrupt ability work only against few classes because if the enemy don’t spam stability or might there’s nothing useful to corrupt (at last swiftness but there’s so much movement skills that is useless to cripple an enemy, if he want to flee he flee), and in this meta there’s a lot of classes that don’t need to spam boons to burst us down easy and fast (warrior, guardian, thief, mesmer, for example). Then there’s the warrior: we can corrupt al the stability we want, he will obtain more and more and will ignore our fear because he have 15 sec od Resistance, enough to kill us easy and fast.
Then there’s a large amount of heavy CC in this game that kills us just because we have poor access to stability, expecially if unable to enter in shroud.
Also, if we want to do something useful we Need someone to help us all the time, basicly playing as one, making the team play like in 4v5 because one need to stay all the time on our back to ress and protect us.
Then there’s our Elite Specializzation!
Remember the new role granted to a lot of classes? We obtained to be able to AoE a down a lot of enemies at once with a mighty Greatsword and shout out our fury to unleash devastation on the battlefield as a giant unstoppable Juggernaut!
That’s the theme of our elite specializzation, and that’s the reason you see everywhere necromancers spam high dps AoE, win against masses and masses of enemies at once and eat bosses like candies just spamming Gravedigger…right?
Oh, right, we totally lack defensive skills to do that…
And also the Gs is unplayable…
And the dps of the GS is more or less at the same level of the dagger, but the dagger with vampiric and warhorn can dop a higher dps…
Yeah, a totally new role!
We had to be a unstoppable and always feared juggernaut! Where’s the fear? Where’s the dps? Where’s the burst? Where’s the GS?
We totally lost it because the necromancer is not made to inflict good damage or have defensive skills…
We’re unable to do high dps, unable to give team support, need support all the time in sPvP, the elite specializzation don’t grant us any new role and the only role we can do is corrupt boons and hope it’s enough to not get slaughtered by basicly everyone.
Wow, we’re seriously strong…
As a necromancer you can’t kill anyone in this meta in 1v1.
But if you really want to try, evade they’re spear of justice (F1) or active a stability while afflicted, making them unable to pull you, then spam some poison and try to dps as you can (I don’t know what build you’re using, a condition or a direct damage build and more), then jump on them as a reaper full of Stability and burst them. If they active F3 just more around them, cross them and hit them from behind or the side to hit them anyway. Basicly, charge them, make them use they’re F3-elite-F3 and then just kill them. If you can spam some weakness to reduce they’re dps and active Spectral Armor or other defensive skills to survive enough to see them end they’re defensive skills.
The best way to kill them is move around in melee hitting them from the side (and some skills if used right in front of them count as you’re using them on they’re back, ignoring they’re block), dodge the spear, use your stability at your best and if you can slot Nothing Can Save You to hit them with your burst when they active they’re block and think to be safe from your hits.
I’m talking for sPvP:
In the past we was able to survive and inflict good damage, but the merit was not totally ours.
Before HoT there was a bunker meta, enemies dps was really lower and we had the time to build up enough LF during the fight to survive and even win a 1v1.
Also we was able to inflict good/high damage, but that was not our damage: after the trait and condition rework there was a lot of condi builds (also just to try it, not really optimal builds) and we was able to collest all that conditions and transfert them on the enemy, killing him with his conditions.
We was the only real counter for elementalists (CeleEle) and all the stronger classes focused on boon cpam to obtain damage (might spam) and survavibility (protection and regeneration), granting us a really good spot becoming able to continously corrupt they’re boons and making them really weak and easy to kill.
And we also had a real good source of condition damage: chill was able to inflict up to 1k/sec while full condi and with 25 stack of might (not a really huge problem at this time)
That granted us a good survavibility, high counter damage and a viable source of damage to fight against direct damage classes.
Now every enemy can burst down us even with no might and weakness, there’s no more condition classes to redirect the damage and obtain a good dps (only mesmer play condition right now, with some necro and few warriors that still insist to soloQ with a condi build) and our chill damage had been twisted into a bleed stack that do his poor damage as it can but don’t grant us any decent dps and our only role is poor because there’s so much boon spam (elementalist and revenant, still if now is weaker) and at the same time high dps and survavibility without any boon (high burst by default and immunity skills) that corrupt boon sometimes is useless, unless to corrupt stability into fear. but with the Resistance spam warriors can totally ignore your stability corruption and burst you down easy and fast.
We’re not really weak, we just lost survavibility, damage and our role with massive changes into the PvP area that granted to every other class to make new builds and find new roles (or specializzate better as the elementalist did, still if ele players hate the forced support state of they’re class) but let us back into the past seasons without any way to be viable in this one.
The only thing I can ask for sPvP without ruin all the “Theme Logic” behind this beautifull class is to restore Chill Damage. if we can’t have immunity, block, stealth, evade or movement to increase survavibility and can’t have a good ally support, at last let us inflict good damage.
Making all the math, 1k/sec isn’t so much for a condition class that have poor access to any other condition, with 11 poison stack for RS4 or the scepter AA, that is really weak compared to all the other condition weapons in this game (even the warrior GS now can spam Burn, inflicting better damage than our scepter, making of it the worst condition weapon of the game).
Back in time that 1k was high because we also had a lot of other conditions from a large amount of classes (guardian, mesmer, ele, ranger, also the warrior Burn that with our condi damage was poor in stack but still useful) to send back to our enemies, now we have only confusion from the mesmer and some times few conditions from warriors and other necros. Not so much to fight with.
Back in time we was feared as condi counter and good dps, I only want to have that fear back. Right now everyone that see a necro spam two hits and kill him easy and fast. Make us still killable but more feared will be a good new into this sPvP meta.
Basicly everyone got a dps improvement, we got only a nerf and a indirect nerf.
In PvP they got nothing new about bleed spam, that’s only a PvE change to make it a viable class to play in an enviroment with so much better dps classes.
But yes, a reaper can try to spam all his chill and full you with bleed, but then he’s dps totally dead (as you say, you just owned your enemy cleaning all that bleed at once).