Why even bother WvWing if u just PvD for the points? It’s basicly PvE with a lot less rewards. It’s just as bad as keep hugging T3 stuff and build thousand siege inside and never step a foot out of to face enemy on open field.
WvW is about wrecking other people… with your character, not some lousy AC on a T3 wall.
It probably just feels like low damage before FS/LS change since there was some kind of boon tanks everywhere where people just stack boons especially guardians. Yes FS/LS was responsible for this meta shift imo.
The meta kinda shifted now and the auto attack is a beast now. Also fairly common combo to open with FS/LS to strip boons then just whack with AA.
Yea i love opening with Larc into steal and instantly steal 4 boons (i run with bount), i only rly use it when the enemy has boons up i want tho (basicly vigor, fury, prot, stab, lot of might, swiftness)
They just need to fix 50% mobility in stealth, because it’s currently NOT working out of combat.
It’s not working in combat either. People need to stop perpetuating that myth everywhere.
The in-combat max-speed is not equal to the out of combat max speed; the max speed is capped as a 33% multiplier, period. In or out of combat.
Yes it is working. You run slower while in combat, but if u have the trait + u are in stealth u will be as fast as a out of combat with swiftness… or close to.
I don’t think you understand what “burst” means. It doesn’t mean backstabbing an enemy to death in two shots, it means an attack (or sequence of attacks) of elevated DPS compared to your autoattack, which is traditionally predictable pressure damage. This is mostly done to finish off a foe that you pressured down or to shift the pace of the battle so they use their heal prematurely.
The Flanking Strike>Larcenous strike chain is a much faster delivery of damage than the autoattack chain.
and a 1 second cooldown would be stupid since there is already the initiative system.
You didn’t understand the point of my suggestion at all, did you?
The point of the ini system is to not have any cooldowns on weapon skills, not even if its 1 second.
they should nerf the damage a bit (around 20% seems fine) and give dancing dagger actually a use to compensate and complete the set, because at the moment it feels incomplete. (just like D/D, P/P and P/D)
That would effectively put FS/LS in a worse situation than pistol whip. At least pistol whip does same damage as AA. After 20% nerf FS/LS would do 20% less damage than AA.
FS/LS does more damage than AA, it is faster executed and LS does more damage than CS + evade + boon steal + unblockable. It also doesnt suffer from the problem that if you opponent dodges / blinds / blocks your Slice / Slash you have to start your AA chain over again, it is quite hard to get to crippling strike. FS/LS doesnt have that problem.
I play 10 / 0 / 0 / 30 / 30 double S/D and i still do enough damage (3,5k lac on glass, around 2,3k on bunker guards), i’m sure a 30 CS thief could live with a 20% dmg nerf (only on LS, not on FS). Yes, in PvP.
Also PW’s problem is not the damage, it’s retaliation which renders it useless in a team fight.
There were calculations that showed FS/LS doing LESS damage than auto attack chain and DPS was actually lower. Besides theoretical calculation, people who compared damage between AA and FS/LS on target dummies recorded similar DPS between AA chain and FS/LS. It probably comes out faster yea since it’s 2 hits vs 3, but AA does same or better DPS.
FS is evade and LS is boon stripping and unblockable but CS is weakness and cripple and doesn’t cost initiative. It’s also a lot easier to connect AA chain than LS especially considering you can use the initiative on dancing daggers to help you connect it.
That is hard to believe, you dont happen to have a link? im quite interested
Well all the theorycrafting was done shortly after FS/LS was buffed, and S/D has only been nerfed since then. It would be a pain to find it again since it’s been so long, but the general concensus is FS/LS does same DPS as auto attack. The burden of proof should not be on me anyways, since what I’m saying is widely accepted as the truth for a very very long time.
Dude you don’t have to proof me anything i would just find it interesting because based on experience i find it hard to believe. I have used the AA chain for months as main damage source on S/D long before the flanking strike change and it feels like FS -> LS does more damage… (and has like 10 times the utility)
Normally I’d just attribute it to more baseless stupid Thief hate, but the Devs are in on it too.
I’d really like then to give them the benefit of the doubt and not assume the Devs just have it out for us like so many players.
I doubt it’s the constant dodging. That already got nerfed pretty hard recently, and hardly even needed that with how weak the damage and versatility were, and how fast you’d drop the moment you made a single mistake.
It’s almost invariably going to be a nerf to Inf Strike / Shadow Return, and it will probably ruin S/D.
I can’t imagine why they’d nerf LS damage – LS and CS are the only attacks that hit for any decent damage. Without LS to fill in the gaps, S/D is going to get pasted trying to facetank long enough to get to the end of an AA chain.
I doubt they will nerf IS / SR, it’s either going to be LS or dodge spam in general.
Any nerf to dodges is likely going to have a minor effect on those ineffectively spamming dodges mindlessly, and a major effect on those of us who use the skill appropriately.
S/D is a fairly strong set, but I just don’t see how it’s “broken” – 40% of the weapnset skillbar is borderline useless.
I agree with you, even tho i could live with a damage nerf to LS IF they make DD useful to compensate
If they have to, move some of the damage from LS to FS – reducing the overall damage of the 2 skills by just straight reducing LS is silly, they hit on par with Auto attack in the same timeframe – yes, they have stronger attached effects than AA, but they also cost init…so it seems fairly balanced to me.
That is not true, AA chain takes over 2 seconds (you can easily check this by chainign 2 AA chains, the second CS will hit AFTER the 2 second Cripple / Weakness has run out -> over 2 seconds), i can nearly chain 2x FS / LS in that time frame, and that is definetly more damage than an AA chain, not to mention the utility is a lot better + it doesnt suffer as much from blinds / blocks as the AA chain does.
Anyway im not saying LS does need a nerf, i’m just saying if they nerf it (and they will) i could live most with a dmg nerf, but they should complete the set to compensate, because seriously DD has absolutely no use whatsoever
I don’t remember the math specifically off the top of my head, but I think your method is off because the aftercast of crippling strike is skewing your assessment (since you’re judging from using 2 AA chains in a row).
If I recall correctly, the time it takes to complete 1 AA chain is roughly equivalent with the time it takes to complete 1 FS->LS.
Yea the aftercast alters the result a bit agree, sadly i dont rly know how to figure it out exactly it would be quite interesting to know. If i had to guess i would say AA chain takes around 1,5 – 2 seconds, since the second CS hits after the Cripple has run out (delay being the AC delay of the first CS)
FS + LS → 1 second cast time
Slash + CS → 1 second cast time, that is without slice because it is instant, so you have to count that in too which means the whole AA chain takes definetly more time than 1 second
Normally I’d just attribute it to more baseless stupid Thief hate, but the Devs are in on it too.
I’d really like then to give them the benefit of the doubt and not assume the Devs just have it out for us like so many players.
I doubt it’s the constant dodging. That already got nerfed pretty hard recently, and hardly even needed that with how weak the damage and versatility were, and how fast you’d drop the moment you made a single mistake.
It’s almost invariably going to be a nerf to Inf Strike / Shadow Return, and it will probably ruin S/D.
I can’t imagine why they’d nerf LS damage – LS and CS are the only attacks that hit for any decent damage. Without LS to fill in the gaps, S/D is going to get pasted trying to facetank long enough to get to the end of an AA chain.
I doubt they will nerf IS / SR, it’s either going to be LS or dodge spam in general.
Any nerf to dodges is likely going to have a minor effect on those ineffectively spamming dodges mindlessly, and a major effect on those of us who use the skill appropriately.
S/D is a fairly strong set, but I just don’t see how it’s “broken” – 40% of the weapnset skillbar is borderline useless.
I agree with you, even tho i could live with a damage nerf to LS IF they make DD useful to compensate
If they have to, move some of the damage from LS to FS – reducing the overall damage of the 2 skills by just straight reducing LS is silly, they hit on par with Auto attack in the same timeframe – yes, they have stronger attached effects than AA, but they also cost init…so it seems fairly balanced to me.
That is not true, AA chain takes over 2 seconds (you can easily check this by chainign 2 AA chains, the second CS will hit AFTER the 2 second Cripple / Weakness has run out -> over 2 seconds), i can nearly chain 2x FS / LS in that time frame, and that is definetly more damage than an AA chain, not to mention the utility is a lot better + it doesnt suffer as much from blinds / blocks as the AA chain does.
Anyway im not saying LS does need a nerf, i’m just saying if they nerf it (and they will) i could live most with a dmg nerf (or shift some damage over to FS like u suggested), but they should complete the set to compensate, because seriously DD has absolutely no use whatsoever
Normally I’d just attribute it to more baseless stupid Thief hate, but the Devs are in on it too.
I’d really like then to give them the benefit of the doubt and not assume the Devs just have it out for us like so many players.
I doubt it’s the constant dodging. That already got nerfed pretty hard recently, and hardly even needed that with how weak the damage and versatility were, and how fast you’d drop the moment you made a single mistake.
It’s almost invariably going to be a nerf to Inf Strike / Shadow Return, and it will probably ruin S/D.
I can’t imagine why they’d nerf LS damage – LS and CS are the only attacks that hit for any decent damage. Without LS to fill in the gaps, S/D is going to get pasted trying to facetank long enough to get to the end of an AA chain.
I doubt they will nerf IS / SR, it’s either going to be LS or dodge spam in general.
Any nerf to dodges is likely going to have a minor effect on those ineffectively spamming dodges mindlessly, and a major effect on those of us who use the skill appropriately.
S/D is a fairly strong set, but I just don’t see how it’s “broken” – 40% of the weapnset skillbar is borderline useless.
I agree with you, even tho i could live with a damage nerf to LS IF they make DD useful to compensate
Normally I’d just attribute it to more baseless stupid Thief hate, but the Devs are in on it too.
I’d really like then to give them the benefit of the doubt and not assume the Devs just have it out for us like so many players.
I doubt it’s the constant dodging. That already got nerfed pretty hard recently, and hardly even needed that with how weak the damage and versatility were, and how fast you’d drop the moment you made a single mistake.
It’s almost invariably going to be a nerf to Inf Strike / Shadow Return, and it will probably ruin S/D.
I can’t imagine why they’d nerf LS damage – LS and CS are the only attacks that hit for any decent damage. Without LS to fill in the gaps, S/D is going to get pasted trying to facetank long enough to get to the end of an AA chain.
I doubt they will nerf IS / SR, it’s either going to be LS or dodge spam in general.
I don’t think you understand what “burst” means. It doesn’t mean backstabbing an enemy to death in two shots, it means an attack (or sequence of attacks) of elevated DPS compared to your autoattack, which is traditionally predictable pressure damage. This is mostly done to finish off a foe that you pressured down or to shift the pace of the battle so they use their heal prematurely.
The Flanking Strike>Larcenous strike chain is a much faster delivery of damage than the autoattack chain.
and a 1 second cooldown would be stupid since there is already the initiative system.
You didn’t understand the point of my suggestion at all, did you?
The point of the ini system is to not have any cooldowns on weapon skills, not even if its 1 second.
they should nerf the damage a bit (around 20% seems fine) and give dancing dagger actually a use to compensate and complete the set, because at the moment it feels incomplete. (just like D/D, P/P and P/D)
That would effectively put FS/LS in a worse situation than pistol whip. At least pistol whip does same damage as AA. After 20% nerf FS/LS would do 20% less damage than AA.
FS/LS does more damage than AA, it is faster executed and LS does more damage than CS + evade + boon steal + unblockable. It also doesnt suffer from the problem that if you opponent dodges / blinds / blocks your Slice / Slash you have to start your AA chain over again, it is quite hard to get to crippling strike. FS/LS doesnt have that problem.
I play 10 / 0 / 0 / 30 / 30 double S/D and i still do enough damage (3,5k lac on glass, around 2,3k on bunker guards), i’m sure a 30 CS thief could live with a 20% dmg nerf (only on LS, not on FS). Yes, in PvP.
Also PW’s problem is not the damage, it’s retaliation which renders it useless in a team fight.
There were calculations that showed FS/LS doing LESS damage than auto attack chain and DPS was actually lower. Besides theoretical calculation, people who compared damage between AA and FS/LS on target dummies recorded similar DPS between AA chain and FS/LS. It probably comes out faster yea since it’s 2 hits vs 3, but AA does same or better DPS.
FS is evade and LS is boon stripping and unblockable but CS is weakness and cripple and doesn’t cost initiative. It’s also a lot easier to connect AA chain than LS especially considering you can use the initiative on dancing daggers to help you connect it.
That is hard to believe, you dont happen to have a link? im quite interested
I don’t think you understand what “burst” means. It doesn’t mean backstabbing an enemy to death in two shots, it means an attack (or sequence of attacks) of elevated DPS compared to your autoattack, which is traditionally predictable pressure damage. This is mostly done to finish off a foe that you pressured down or to shift the pace of the battle so they use their heal prematurely.
The Flanking Strike>Larcenous strike chain is a much faster delivery of damage than the autoattack chain.
and a 1 second cooldown would be stupid since there is already the initiative system.
You didn’t understand the point of my suggestion at all, did you?
The point of the ini system is to not have any cooldowns on weapon skills, not even if its 1 second.
they should nerf the damage a bit (around 20% seems fine) and give dancing dagger actually a use to compensate and complete the set, because at the moment it feels incomplete. (just like D/D, P/P and P/D)
That would effectively put FS/LS in a worse situation than pistol whip. At least pistol whip does same damage as AA. After 20% nerf FS/LS would do 20% less damage than AA.
FS/LS does more damage than AA, it is faster executed and LS does more damage than CS + evade + boon steal + unblockable. It also doesnt suffer from the problem that if you opponent dodges / blinds / blocks your Slice / Slash you have to start your AA chain over again, it is quite hard to get to crippling strike. FS/LS doesnt have that problem.
I play 10 / 0 / 0 / 30 / 30 double S/D and i still do enough damage (3,5k lac on glass, around 2,3k on bunker guards), i’m sure a 30 CS thief could live with a 20% dmg nerf (only on LS, not on FS). Yes, in PvP.
Also PW’s problem is not the damage, it’s retaliation which renders it useless in a team fight.
If they are in WvW to farm ascended stuff they are doing it wrong, it is A LOT faster to do it in PvE. And if u just do PvD in WvW it’s exactly that, PvE with less rewards.
I don’t think you understand what “burst” means. It doesn’t mean backstabbing an enemy to death in two shots, it means an attack (or sequence of attacks) of elevated DPS compared to your autoattack, which is traditionally predictable pressure damage. This is mostly done to finish off a foe that you pressured down or to shift the pace of the battle so they use their heal prematurely.
The Flanking Strike>Larcenous strike chain is a much faster delivery of damage than the autoattack chain.
and a 1 second cooldown would be stupid since there is already the initiative system.
You didn’t understand the point of my suggestion at all, did you?
The point of the ini system is to not have any cooldowns on weapon skills, not even if its 1 second.
they should nerf the damage a bit (around 20% seems fine) and give dancing dagger actually a use to compensate and complete the set, because at the moment it feels incomplete. (just like D/D, P/P and P/D)
Made my GS already too, spent pretty much no gold getting to 500. I already had a load of mats and it barely dented the pool when discovering the exos. I made 3 ingots Deldrimor Steel Ingots and Spiritwood Planks myself for the inscription, but then I just bought 6 more ingots from the TP. There is pretty much no time-gating at all if you’re willing to spend some more gold. The only real time gate is Dragonite Ore, but you get a bucketload of them anyway. Got 500 within the past 3 days easily.
Where did you farm the empyre?
Did some easy jumping puzzles and did some dungeon runs.
You get 20 per run, and there is NO limit. You get DR for going too fast (CoF p1 over and over, for example, 20 -> 10) but that’s it. Easy.
So i can just farm cof p1 all day and get 20 first time then 10 each clear after?
Made my GS already too, spent pretty much no gold getting to 500. I already had a load of mats and it barely dented the pool when discovering the exos. I made 3 ingots Deldrimor Steel Ingots and Spiritwood Planks myself for the inscription, but then I just bought 6 more ingots from the TP. There is pretty much no time-gating at all if you’re willing to spend some more gold. The only real time gate is Dragonite Ore, but you get a bucketload of them anyway. Got 500 within the past 3 days easily.
I’m afraid there is not much condition cleanse available on the thief unless you spec into SA.
Even if you play sword main hand, the cleanse from shadow return is quite neat but it’s not intended to be spammed X times in a row to clean a spite signet from necros. Shadowstep has a very long CD, altough it helps, conditions get reapplied so fast it doesnt help that much. Signet of Agility doesnt clean 5 conditions if there are 5 allys nearby, it still cleanses only 1, but 1 on each ally.
I dont know, i think this is quite easy to counter since you cannot really stack many bleeds (not enough access to stealth without dagger off hand) and even if you could, you’re applying 4 conditions in total (bleed, poison, confusion and blinds) which i think are pretty easy to manage (cleanse). You’re too reliant on ur utlitys (stealth) to stack bleeds.
It might work if you run P/D as a second weapon set. But i dont know, it’s definetly interesting and i might try it out.
By the way you can get 2 stealths out of Refuge (tho only in WvW cuz of 3 sec revealed instead of 4), it might help you stack bleeds.
Also, this rune set will be nerfed in the next few patches you can count on that.
I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but would be nice if these guys didn’t drag the spider queen into the spectators at the MYA/Vii match today — or kill off RS guys as they were standing there in quaggan costume.
WvW is a game type that we believe very strongly in. We’ve seen that people have been organizing their own combat in WvW and that’s really cool, but WvW requires changes that are not always in step with the gameplay that has been emerging. Our focus is on making WvW as strong as it can be and we will continue to make changes with that in mind. We have been and will continue to discuss these open field battles, but in the meantime the changes we make to WvW will always have that game type first and foremost in mind.
Firstly, thank you for recognising our existance.
I can fully understand that the WvW team wants to focus on WvW, and that infact if we’re ever going to see a separate GvG map/mode it’ll most likely come from the sPvP guys and not WvW. That’s fair enough.
I think what frustrates and confuses the GvG community most is that out of all the possible changes you could make, and all the possible fixes WvW needs, you go straight for the option that will make GvG virtually impossible and has a good chance of killing off the scene. And despite you acknowledging this, you’re going ahead with it anyway. It feels rather like we’re being targeted for punishment.
There is no info at all if its going to be a stat buff or not
I seriously can’t be bothered to read this. If you think Mesmer is useless in WvW, you are probably the worst Mesmer/WvW player EVER. Let’s take a look, shall we?
Veil: Line that grants stealth to ANY NUMBER of people who run across it. Used every single day by Mesmers to do more than any Warrior could to help the zerg.
Feedback: AoE reflects. Can be traited to last longer and have shorter CD. Just amazing skill in WvW.
Traited Focus: MOAR reflects. Just good.
Null Field: Boonstrip and/or Condition cleanse. Oh and it’s AoE.
Literally the ONLY thing you have right, OP, is that Mesmers are very slow, and must sacrifice to get speed (Run Focus/Blink/Staff and trait them as needed).
Mesmer is far from bad in WvW, and if you think they are, I suggest not blaming the class for your obvious shortcomings.
Edit: Oh, and the list I gave you? That’s only the beginning of what a Mesmer brings to WvW. Look in the Mesmer section and find all the builds made for WvW and the videos linked to them, then tell me Mesmer is bad.
So what are you gonna reflect buddy? The Hammer stuns from the warriors? The Meteor Showers and all the other AoE from the eles? The Wells and marks from the necro? The Whirling Wraths from the guardian?
Have you ever tried to portal bomb a good guild grp? I wish you goodluck, you will need it.
Veil -> very good but 1-2 are enough and thats where it ends. They were fun to play and quite effective when the glamour build wasnt nerfed due the confusion nerf, but yea…
I actually signed into my forum account, and I never do, because I KNEW there would be a forum thread about this. GvGs aren’t the point. The point is that Anet, you are getting increasingly detached from your most loyal playerbase day by day. The proof was in that stream. I could not BELIEVE how you guys just ignored the people crying out for a GvG mode. You act like they don’t exist and even act like they detracted from the stream somehow….that stream was crap, to be honest, (some Q&A…..seriously) and it’s incredibly insulting to the hardcore guilds that make up the core of WvW the way you simply ignore us, in a stream for the very gamemode most of us play exclusively. I can’t believe how blind you guys are to this cash cow right under your noses. You try to push sPvP like the plague as an esport where a set GvG mode really has the potential to blow up. How can you not see this? There are so many people involved in this GvG scene with absolutely zero support from you lot. Imagine if you showed the slightest bit of support. You keep catering to the lazy PVE crowd, the group of players will be gone to another game the second a new shiny one is out. I don’t think you realize, Anet, how GOOD the pvp in this game really is. There is a reason we started playing this game and still are, the few of us PvP people who are left. Most games don’t have pvp that is as good, as interesting, or as diverse as this game’s, less are MMOs. Even lesser still are still available to play. The siege buffs, especially ACs are completely ruining this aspect of the game. Do you seriously think that all the people trying to get you to stop are all trolls? Believe it or not, whatever sample of the playerbase you have in your testing IS NOT helping WvW. I am trying to tell you. They are not representative of the people who play WvW. That much is obvious. The PvP people play this game to actually play the game and fight other groups of players. All people do anymore is sit in towers with siege, this is NOT the game that we love so much. That is spamming 3 buttons and having them be effective because they hit more targets than anything else, and do more damage than most player groups. How is that rewarding? How does that encourage actually playing the kitten classes in this game? I am telling you this, because when both groups of people move from this game, the PvErs because of a new carrot and the PvP crowd because of horrible support from you guys, you will be left with no one. The PvP crowd will leave in whole guilds and it will be sudden. You will either fix this now or this game is doomed to fail. I sincerely hope you change before you remember this crossroads when it is far too late.
Nailed it.
+1
the gameplay is dead on in this game, of course when its not lagging…
Gotta be truly bad to complain about the most OP class in the game and the most essential one in organized zerging.
Try playing a warrior. Maye then you’ll see how hard not to rely on a handicap: 8 second teleports/stealth/access to immunity to anything at any time/ clones attacking while you are running or dodging/ 10 sec invulnerability for 2secs on a weapon skill.
Yep..mesmers are truly in bad shape.
A Warrior has definetly more value to a zerg than the mesmer has
Does ANY other class in the game has access to ANY of the above? Didn’t think so.
Any commander worth his salt would want a mesmer over a warrior that CCs 5 ppl max out of the 30man zerg in the front every 9 seconds -if he isn’t blinded or destroye- any time of the day. Take a survey..
It’s funny coming across the weird little isolated reality mesmer players live in where they think they are entited to more and more even though they have the best and most unique skills that affect zergs or spvp.
If some of the tasks for a mesmer in WvW aren’t fun then play another class. Guess what, warriors don’t like being cc / condi removal bots and guardians get bored with being meat shields/boon batteries.
Im talking about actual open field combat vs two organized groups 20-25, where the warrior is more valueable than the mesmer.
Better CC, much better con removal, provides very important boons (vigor, swiftness, fury, might), access to stability, better survivability the list goes on… also gets more bags btw..
also you cannot blink into a keep / tower / whatever unless there is a door / wall down.
Gotta be truly bad to complain about the most OP class in the game and the most essential one in organized zerging.
Try playing a warrior. Maye then you’ll see how hard not to rely on a handicap: 8 second teleports/stealth/access to immunity to anything at any time/ clones attacking while you are running or dodging/ 10 sec invulnerability for 2secs on a weapon skill.
Yep..mesmers are truly in bad shape.
A Warrior has definetly more value to a zerg than the mesmer has
Im excited for the borderlands map changes, the new capture points look like they will promote small group play. But please get rid of the PvE Mobs in there, downing ur enemy just to see him rally of a mob is quite frustrating.
If it really promotes small group play i will enjoy it a lot, it would be even more awesome if the buff would open something like darkness falls, then i would love ANet forever.
While i agree it’s kitten that there still is no talk about a GvG feature when they clearly know that the community wants it badly (the chat during the stream was quite a sign i guess, and quite pathetic that they muted everyone asking for it).
If these new Capture points really turn into small scale fights and i mean 5 or below then i will definetly enjoy it a lot.
Honestly, either of those are better options that Spider Venom, and, in fact, my build happens to run them both.
But SB is tossed aside cuz S/D S/D is apparently better (even Jumper admitted that he needed SB in his own build), and Serpent’s Touch is a part of DA that for some reason most people won’t even touch nowadays.
S/D S/D has a few advantages over S/D SB, while S/D SB also has a few advantages over S/D S/D.
S/D S/D generates more initiative + dodges than S/D SB while ofc you gain the shortbow if you dont run double S/D. (there is more stuff that you gain by deciding for one of these that the other doesnt have but i dont really want to write a book here)
And yes i know ur build because i run 10 / 0 / 0 / 30 / 30 too but i run it with S/D S/D.
And Shortbow against this kind of build? Thats an awful idea, while poison might be helpful he runs warhorn which means he can cleanse it easily, and thats pretty much the only thing you can do nshortbow, ur cluster hit like kitten (if you manage to hit them) and AA does no damage at all. If you swap to bow you will not be doing any damage for 9 seconds so its dumb to switch. His passive regen will outheal all ur shortbow damage easily (even if you perma poison him im pretty sure) Rather spec 5 into DA to have poison on steal + stay on S/D
Thieves are not only viable in zergs, they’re valuable. I’m not saying indispensable, but valuable. Constant blast finishers and dagger storm alone are enough to be useful to your zerg. You can also be doling out Vigor to your teamates, plus whatever else you steal. (Aim for stability). On top of all that, you can cause a mess of caltrops. A crippled zerg is a dead zerg. And if your zerg needs you to scurry off and scout something or tap a wp, you’re well qualified to do that.
Is a thief as needed for a successful zerg as a guardian or a mesmer? No, but they’re far from useless.
Not to mention spamable AoE weakness + poison.
Thief can also be played rather glassy in a zerg. I have been doing it successfully. 3-7k cluster (depending on target)+ good survivability + AoE weakness + AoE Poison + Daggerstorm is definetly strong, but still lacks compared to Guardian / Ele / Necro. It’s also a lot harder to play since you can die very quickly but you have tools to avoid damage (lots of dodges, shadowsteps, weakness, positioning). AC’s are your death tho…
Coming from someone who has been playing thief a lot in GvGs and open field Guild Raids against superior forces.
He said “without pro fact reactions” not “without mouse with extra buttons”.
this haha
on topic: if you get focused by 3+ players and ure stunned and dont pop ur stunbreak quickly you will die rather quickly on any class (of course if the 3 players know what they are doing). Unless you spec yourself rather tanky / sustainable which every class can do to some extent (some better than others), i can tell you that the thief definetly has builds which can work if you do not have uber fast reactions. I would start with P/D → 0 / 0 / 30 / 20 / 20 full carrion.
I agree i dont really like it as much as the all the others (god i love the ecto from mesmer or the daze from the guardian) because i run double S/D so no combo finishers but it’s not bad either.
