Guild Wars 2

Alex Behemoth.4952:

Braxxus.2904:

Leriff.8362:

That’s not stealth making the thief OP, that’s culling, and it happens to everyone, stealth or not.

Hmm, sorry but my warrior, guardian, ranger, necro can’t become invisible at an incredibly high rate to basically USE culling to keep me invisble 90+% of the time.

My thief can.
To a lesser extent so can my mesmer.

Yup, culling affects fast moving zergs here and there for sure.
Thieves use culling at will.

Not sure if its culling because I was fighting one on one as a mesmer. I think I’m a pretty skilled player have not lost one on one to anyone else except tie against condition heavy build which is what my build is bad against. However I had 3 phantasm and a npc flag against one thief. Problem is he did not stay visible for enough time for even my phantasms to attack. I would say he was invisible for 90% of the time. Nothing I can do. If he is invisible I can’t attack him.

I call BS.

Ur clones will auto attack him AS SOON AS he comes out of stealth, even if hes not visible due culling, they will still attack him the second he comes out of stealth.

“Defensive capability =/= survivability”

I’m confused =/

I switched from D/D to S/D a couple of days ago too and im having a blast with it.

i’m using 0 / 30 / 30 / 0 / 10

Traits are

- Blind when stealthing
- -2 Ini cost for stealth skills
- +20 Dmg when opponent below 50% hp
- Stealthed when using Steal
- 5% Precision converted to Vitality
- Stealth when gettin hit >20% of max HP in a single strike
- Gain Fury when opponent below 50% ho

Utility Slots i use Hide in Shadows, Blinding Powder, Shadow Step and Signet of Shadows (i cant play without it anymore no matter how hard i try =( ). Elite im using the Thiefs.

A lot of Stealth and Blinds with this. I have the feeling that S/D is a very utility based weapon set which requires you to control ur opponent. You have a lot of stealth which means you can hand out a lot of dazes.

For WvW i use a mix between Valkyrie and Knight armor sets. For sPvP i go with the Mesmer runes + Superior Sigill of Paralyzation. Soldier Amulett with Jewel of Berserker.

sorrow.2364:

Shizzlenit.7648:

Wait… what?

Least defensive capability in the game? Man you have some HW to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBJ3lUCB5I0

So man, what do you want to prove with that video? That a group of lv80 players with x Orbs of Powers and x food buffs can defeat a minizerg of upleveled people in WvWvW who actualy has also no clue on how to target enemies?
People should stop to post WvWvW footages to prove something or at least have to watch closely the video they post as a proof.
This just makes you hilarious.

Yes because hes totaly not tanking 10-20 people here and actually survives.

I responded to someone saying that the warrior has the LEAST (lol) defensive capabilities in the game, show me another class doing what the warrior does in the video. Ill wait.

sorrow.2364:

Kurow.6973:

Too bad they have to play a glass cannon to be good enough for that damage, and are FORCED to equip a shortbow at all times in PvP, if they want those teleport chances…and even then, are limited by initiative.

Stealth is NOT a free get out of combat card…unless you’re fighting lazy people who don’t put in the effort to predict your moves and chase you to finish you off.

Amazing mobility and stealth does NOTHING for you when your survivability is kitten, because you won’t be able to kill anything with kitten damage just with mobility and stealth (especially the way stealth is designed in GW2). Your logic is flawed.

PS: I hope you complain as much, if not more about warriors than thieves, because they have higher survivability, with higher burst. I have a warrior I play…and I can say, without a doubt, that it’s ridiculously “OP”.

I can’t believe you completely misunderstood my post.

No thief is forced to play as a glass cannon, there are bunch of builds which relies on heavy toughness and vitality, while dealing good damage (see P/D). The fact that most people build as glass cannon doesn’t mean that all thieves are forced to build as a glass cannon.

You are not forced to have a shortbow in order to have high mobility.
You have always a gap closer (steal) in all your builds, you can use S/x to have access to Infiltrator’s Strike which is a gap closer, a gap gainer, a stunbreak and a condition removal. You can pick also P/D or D/P, both have a mobility dual skill. Shadowstep gives also most thieves high mobility, Withdraw heals you and gives you positional advantage, same as Roll for Initiative.

Stealth IS a free get out of the combat card. Once you get in stealth, just one dodge is enough to get out of the melee range and your enemy has absolutely no clue of where you headed to because you are… invisible. They can keeping swinging the air at random, but if you aren’t stupid enough to get hit by those swings, you are most likely out of the fight.

Amazing mobility and stealth does a lot and can easily compensate low survivability (which, by the way, isn’t that bad when speccing into). Have you ever specced into Shadow Arts or Arcrobatics? The first one has the potential to clean you up and healing you each time you go into stealth, while the second one gives you the chance have most likely infinite dodges. Do you think that those mechanics gives low survivability? Of course not.
Every profession can spec into glass cannon, having very low survivability and good damage, but no profession is capable to deal the damage thief deal in that amount of time and as hard to counter. Just try to build as glass cannon with a Mesmer, a Necro, an Elementalist or also a Warrior.
You’ll die just as fast as you die with your thief but the damage and the bursts you make are far harder to realize and can be easily dodged or avoided.

Regarding Warriors, it looks like that most thieves have a sort of hate against that profession.
Warriors have the least defensive capability in the game. Their defensive traitlines give almost no defensive capability other than increasing their toughness a bit, which is by the way not enough to mitigate the damage. Once you build as a glass cannon with a warrior, you have no way to avoid the hits other than dodging or probably using one of the high-recharge damage-cancelling skills like endure pain or shield stance, which are more of a burst cancelling other than damage mitigation. Once you strike a glass cannon warrior with substained damage, they will die in a couple of hits, probably more than what a thief requires to be downed, but of course they’ won’t vanish in stealth or kite your damage once they are on low health. When saying that warriors are OP, you should consider also those facts.
In most cases:
Damage avoiding > damage mitigation

Wait… what?

Least defensive capability in the game? Man you have some HW to do.

Hey guys,

Im currently running a daze thief using S/D. I noticed that i can perma daze pretty much every mob up to champions which leads to my question.

Sometimes my daze works on champions mobs and sometimes it does not – like most of the time it does not. Are they immune to dazes to a certain degree and there is only a chance to actually daze the champion or how does it work?

Anybody knows anything? Would be well appreciated.

So i was at the swamp endboss then suddenly my whole group got ported back to Lions Arch. Is this a bug or something? We didnt DC or something, we were fighting and then suddenly the LA loading screen appeared and we were back at LA.

Anyone experienced the same?

Talloc.6835:

http://i.imgur.com/BeyFB.png

Good lord.

This Ring sucks to be honest. Wouldnt wear it over my exo one

+10% crit damage food probably

Dont have a problem with any of the stuff.

Loving the Blinding Powder Buff, was one of my favourite Utilitys before and now its even better

10 / 30 / 30 / 0 / 0

Kinda a tanky backstab build. Running full Valkyire hitting around 20k HP, 114% crit damage, 23% crit chance and 2,4k armor.

Only change that affects me is CnD and i dont mind that since my damage mainly comes from backstab anyway.

This is WvW of course.

Thats not the point…

the point is that before once u hit full exotic u were done with he gear grind. Now you have to grind again because ure exotic is not the best anymore. Once you are full ascended they will probably release a new tier and it starts all over again.

Cosmetic were optional which means you didnt have to grind them out… ascended is mandatory…

Legendary Ascended Armor… lawl priceless

Gearscore would be neccessary too !

Ur gearscore aint over 1000?? You stay out of my party mayne !!!

Rayya.2591:

What you guys belive
Our stealth will be boosted?
Our initiative regen will be boosteD?
Our defence / endurance ?
or normal attacks /condition damage?
Moderators told we will have finaly our pie, backstab get decreased and we get an compensation.
In wich point we will get our compensation?

where did they say that backstab will get decreased?

If you have the luxury of owning two accounts you can power lvl there very fast using the following method:

The char you want lvl must be on a server that owns SM. With the other char you shoot the SM using a trebuchet from a safe place so the “Defend Keep whatever” event pops up. The char you want to lvl has to repair the gate/wall → Finish an Event every 3 minutes that grants huge XP.

Be careful tho, this might be considered an exploit (i havent done it myself before, but i was farming karma that way whenever SM was under attack)

Also your pretty much wasting supply of ur server so u might aggro ur teammates

bwillb.2165:

Phantom.8130:

bwillb.2165:

remove the ability to cast mug in the middle of CnD

That’s fine as long as it is a change to that mechanic everywhere that it is available, not just these specific skills.

lower the damage of mug by about 50%

The damage coefficient at extreme levels of stats, maybe. It’s already not that big of a hit with anything but the most extreme of fringe cases.

possibly even remove the vulnerability stacks from CnD, but only if necessary.

No, that’s not needed at all. Thieves don’t have a lot of vulnerability available, and it fits this skill quite nicely.

how about this? have it so that mug does a 1 second knockdown instead of doing any damage, and counts as an actual attack. that way it would break the stealth provided by CnD, but the target would be prone and open to a few free attacks.

That would make it even more powerful in PvP, and kill Mug as a valid option in dungeons. It also already counts as an attack, it just goes off before the thief is actually stealthed when timed right.

One possible option, though, which would curb this burst without making it useless in PvE, would be to have mug apply to the target when using the stolen skill rather than when stealing. This would add a second or so to the minimum time required to complete the full burst combo, and likely split the damage before backstab so that half of it would come after backstab, making it even easier to avoid.

How would that work with that tree thing you steal from rangers?

Or the skill you steal from mesmers?

Always played the stealth class in every MMO i played so far. So it was pretty much a no brainer.

But a burst thief doesnt have to be a glass cannon…

+100% crit chance on backstab + valk set

10 / 30 / 20 / 0 / 10

19,2k hp + 2,3k armor while still hitting hard with backstabs…

The 10 in Trickery gives you Fury on steal which means u still have decent crit chance without any prec gear.

First reply already exposed me

thief forum is better than i thought !

TheDaiBish.9735:

Jrunyon.3012:

But its really not. I guarantee, no matter how great a challenge is, someone will have done it within a week. Then the guides start coming out and suddenly, everyone has a precursor and 1) is on their way to making a legendary. Bam, suddenly, Legendarys are old news because everyone has them and now people are whining even more that there is nothing to work towards. 2) RNG eliminates players who dont want to go above and beyond to get their legendary. 3) In fact, the only problem I see is that the precursors arent soulbound, allowing people to buy them with daddys credit card.

1) Exactly. On their way. They wouldn’t have actually gotten the Legendary. They still have to get all of the other stuff as well.

2) What? ‘Above and beyond’ is repeatedly doing events / selling loot / buying gems and converting to get your pre-cursor?

As opposed to having to max the weapon master achievement for that particular weapon first? I have to collect 12 of a unique item exclusive to Monthly Achievements? Maybe 365 of a unique item exclusive to Daily Achievements? I have to complete all of the boss achievements first? Do all story mode dungeons? Jumping Puzzles? Unlock all skills? Lifetime Survivor Achievement?

There are ways of lengthening the process that allow players to make a steady progress without resorting to RNG.

3) Exactly. At the moment, there are only a small number of things that require you to actually play the game to get the Legendary:

• Bloodstone Shard
• Gift of Exploration
• Obsidian Shards
• Dungeon Gift

Everything else can be made easier by just converting gems to gold. And considering that this isn’t going to change, you need to make the majority of the process require you to play the game, not the minority.

---

Cloud.7613:

If so, you should have no problem getting the gold right? … yeah no, that’s not exactly right. But even then, it wouldn’t take gold to do any of that, it’d take effort. May as well refund everyone who has ever bought a legendary, no?

Challenge =/= spending lots of time doing something.

As it is, I have no problem making gold, but I’m not buying the anything yet, simply because I don’t want to get everything and then the only thing I’d be missing is the pre-cursor.

The problem is that even if it takes forever after maybe a year or so you will see hundreds of legendarys.

RNG prevents that to some extend.

Not saying that i think the system is good or bad just pointing that out.

To become competitive you have to know the ins and outs of every class available in the game.

I’m still on that myself

Doomdesire.9365:

Shizzlenit.7648:

Doomdesire.9365:

The results are not worth the risks at that point. You’d have to waste either 5 initiative or a stealth skill to get an weak backstab ( + 10%) dmg. I would much rather use heartseeker and death blossom.

The point is that the boon stacks up. You can have 10 stacks of this, you just have to hit with enough backstabs before. Now, you might say that this is completely OP, but your opponent can counter it if he avoids any backstabs untill ur stacks run out which means you have to start stacking it up all over again.

But you don’t understand that it’s not worth the risk involved. I get the point is that the boon stacks up, but why? It would take 2-3 consecutive backstabs wasting initiative/stealth skills to do as much damage as I can do with more efficient heartseeker. What thief would spam backstab at that point when they can use heartseeker?

I see where u’re getting at, but i want to say that the numbers i came up with are just examples. Of course this would have to be balanced out. (risk/reward wise)

I just wanted to present a concept :P

Tulisin.6945:

This turns backstab from an ability without much interesting synergy with anything sans trying to instakill people to an ability that is absolutely terrible except when your center your build around it. Not the way thief abilities should be moving.

But isnt that the point? To build around a specific ability?

@Put this to the other 500 nerf threads guy.

Did you even read my post? Or just the topic title?

Doomdesire.9365:

The results are not worth the risks at that point. You’d have to waste either 5 initiative or a stealth skill to get an weak backstab ( + 10%) dmg. I would much rather use heartseeker and death blossom.

The point is that the boon stacks up. You can have 10 stacks of this, you just have to hit with enough backstabs before. Now, you might say that this is completely OP, but your opponent can counter it if he avoids any backstabs untill ur stacks run out which means you have to start stacking it up all over again.

DanH.5879:

it is a good ideea, but i doubt it can be implemented so fast. also landing the same backstab twice in 10s, you must be really PRO, or the target very stupid… also the CD of the imobilize vennom is rather high.
better break the combo(add casting time to steal and to bs) steal(mug)backstab+CnD/hs/etc. and nerf the backstab a little too
problem solved.

I dont think i would be that hard to implement. Also, giving steal and backstab a casting time completely kills the gameplay of a pure backstab thief.

The idea i presented basicly destroys insta gib backstab builds while supporting rather skilled players without killing the gameplay.

Thanks for ur feedback nonetheless, i respect ur opinion !

Are you out of your mind? 50% damage? L2P noob ! Thief is fine ! Backstab is fine ! Learn to dodge ! Noob !

Now before you repeat anything of the above, read please. This is not a whine / nerf thread nor do i think it has to be nerfed (besides a special combo which is kinda OP but thats another topic)

I main a backstab thief myself and i think it is fine but it gets boring sometimes. An idea crossed my mind which i think would add another very interesting layer to backstab, if you’re interested, please read further.

First of all, cut damage done by backstab atleast by 50%. Now you might think “Dude, this skill will be useless if you cut its damage by that much, this will break the whole spec, it wont work.”

BUT

Everytime you hit someone from behind with a backstab you grant urself a boon, i will call it “find the weak spot” but it doesnt really matter how we call it at atm anyway. Now, what does this boon do? It increases the damage done by the next Backstab i will land on my opponent. This boon stacks, so for example i hit my opponent from behind with a backstab and i get this boon, my next backstab will now do +10% (just an example, make it 20%, 30%, 100000%, it doesnt matter i just want to make a point) more damage and on top of that i now have 2 stacks of “find the weak spot”. This boon stacks up untill u basicly on shot ur enemy if you have hit him with enough backstabs before. This boon will last 10 seconds but the duration gets refreshed everytime you land a backstab on ur opponent.

I think this would be an very interesting approach on the whole backstab thing IMO. Please, thief community and pro thiefs, tell me what you think about this !

P.S. This is just an Idea, if you think this wouldnt work please tell so but dont flame for no purpose at all. I would like to discuss an Idea here, thanks.

Edit: fixed some typos

Smells like D3… not that i couldnt live with something like this

120g + precursor is really only a small part you need.

Add lodestones and you have another 150-200g

5. Daggers → B

so i can stealth whenever i want? Man this would cause so many whine threads

So true

kinda reminds me of the D3 forum 2 weeks after it released… man kitten was hilarious.

Yes Yes Yes !

Leveling was a blast when the zones were crowded but now it’s not the case anymore… Underflow is a very good idea.

@Eduardo

cool but it still has no importance to this discussion… absolutely zero…

Salt.3608:

Seriously. It’s not fun when we constantly get nerfed because other classes don’t know how to play. You simply can’t stealth that long if the other player isn’t terrible and standing in your shadow refuge. It’s fine. Really.

Buff the damage of other classes to bring them in line. Give everyone another Slot skill slot. Done.

We have so few weapon options (6 possible combinations – the fewest in game) that these double digit percentage damage nerfs are very disruptive to the thief community. Please just make other classes better.

Puppy off, white knights. I won’t read your post.

why create a topic if you obviously dont want to dicuss anything… makes no sense

To be honest at this point it doesnt really matter.

I have gotten instant killed by pretty much every class. Just today i’ve got hit by a Whirlwind that drained half of my hp instantly and that is just one fricking button (i have 19,2k hp on my thief). I have seen Eles that do so much dps i got downed in seconds, etc. etc. Every class can spec a lot of burst (maybe the necro not so much) but it doesnt really matter. You will always have people to complain a certain thing.

The devs said they will look into it so some change is coming but we dont know what they are going to change. I just hope they dont kitten up builds that dont take advantage of that insta gib combo.

Lets wait and see whats going to happen, this discussion is senseless at the moment anyway.

@Eduardo

Sry that i hurt ur ego, i doesnt matter if u have used it before or him or whatever, fact is many copied it after he made that youtube video and that’s where the whining started.

I repeat, once again i apologize that i have hurt ur ego… we know ure the mastermind when it comes to thieves… gosh.

Kinda recostumised my thief a few days ago. That coat <3

also finally made Incinerator 2 days ago

I agree. Backstab is not the problem it’s the combo that Jinzu etablished which needs a rework.

And of course the rendering issue in WvW…

sorrow.2364:

Kurow.6973:

According to you, backstab takes no skill right now. You must be high. Backstab takes the most skill to execute its full potential amongst all the available skills in the game right now.

This made me laugh.
I mean, laugh hard, really hard.
I think you have no clue of what professions/weapon combos actually requires skill in this game. I can be a pro backstabber thief with just half an hour or less of gameplay.

Just out of curiosity, do you play a thief? A pure backstab thief?

sorrow.2364:

Shizzlenit.7648:

@sorrow

Im not talking about the insta gib which is unavoidable (well not completely, basi venom has been nerfed already you can break it now) but it is very hard i agree. But im all for a nerf for this combo since the window to react is way too small and if u fail reacting ure instantly dead.

When the thief goes in stealth you can very well predict where he is because you know where he is heading to -> behind you. And im not talking about dodging the actual backstab, im talking about getting distance so hes unable to backstab you before his stealth runs out. And he has to use the fastest way to get behind you because the stealth doesnt last long. Just because you cant see doesnt mean he isnt there, you can 90% of the time guess where he is because you can predict which way he HAS to take, otherwise he wont be able to land his backstab.

What you wanna do against a pure backstab thief is kiting, you want to kite him all day so he cannot restealth (CnD) and if he cannot restealth he cant backstab. Of course he has some utility which grants him stealth (Blinding Powder for example) but these have a long cooldown.

Kiting is not an option at all if you consider the cheap leap thieves have as skill 2 on Dagger, so it isn’t that a problem for thieves.

There is a trait on acrobatics, tier 1, Fleet Shadow, which grants you +33% movement speed while stealthed. I know most thieves put everything in offensive attributes but that trait makes all kiting useless when stealthed. Plus you have swiftness on dodge, so..
Also take into account that, due to rendering issues and laggs, the time between CnD and Backstab is minimal and, in most the case, you haven’t enough time to realize the thief vanished when the Backstab comes. Plus, there is Devourer Venom which helps you to land your Backstab if you have problems with.

See, avoiding a backstab isn’t that easy. Considering the damage it does, avoiding it should be way, way easier, as other heavy damage skills are.

A thief chasing you with heartseeker wont be able to CnD because he has no more Initiative. So he cant restealth -> he cant backstab.

Also EVERY thief is running the +25% passive which makes +33% in stealth useless.

Edit: Just to make that clear, everything i post is based on my WvW experience. I dont play sPvP so i cannot comment on that.

@sorrow

Im not talking about the insta gib which is unavoidable (well not completely, basi venom has been nerfed already you can break it now) but it is very hard i agree. But im all for a nerf for this combo since the window to react is way too small and if u fail reacting ure instantly dead.

When the thief goes in stealth you can very well predict where he is because you know where he is heading to -> behind you. And im not talking about dodging the actual backstab, im talking about getting distance so hes unable to backstab you before his stealth runs out. And he has to use the fastest way to get behind you because the stealth doesnt last long. Just because you cant see doesnt mean he isnt there, you can 90% of the time guess where he is because you can predict which way he HAS to take, otherwise he wont be able to land his backstab.

What you wanna do against a pure backstab thief is kiting, you want to kite him all day so he cannot restealth (CnD) and if he cannot restealth he cant backstab. Of course he has some utility which grants him stealth (Blinding Powder for example) but these have a long cooldown.

@sorrow

But i wreck backstab thief on my thief because i know how their build operates. I know when i have to get distance to him because i know when hes going to backstab. It is very easy to avoid when u know how the build operates. I’m playing the build for several hundreds of hours thats why i know it.

Most people i face in WvW just stand still and let me spam backstab because they’re clueless how to deal with it which is understandable, the game is new and you can’t know every counter to a specific build yet or how you have to position urself. But once you do it’s not that hard to avoid.

@Wryscher

But that is more of an issue with the rendering and not the thief class itself

sorrow.2364:

Shizzlenit.7648:

Cap backstab damage to 8-10k or something

all problems solved.

I’m using a backstab build which isnt all damage based (i do around 8k backstabs MAX and around 6k on tankier people. 10k on low lvls) which would be useless if you nerf the raw damage of it.

Please dont nerf builds that dont insta gib people !

Backstab should be at 4k damage on tanky people, which is hell high when considering that it has almost no casting time and a potential external cooldown of 3-4 seconds, and max 6k on squishy targets. Also Mug should deal AT MAXIMUM 2k damage.

If Backstab has the damage it has now, it still will be OP considering that thieves have also that lovely skill called Heartseeker. Right now thieves don’t need Heartseeker due to the ridiculous damage of Backstab and Mug, but if Backstab and Mug doesn’t get an huge nerf to raw damage, than the situation would be the same, excluding that thieves needs to use one heartseeker to finish the target down.

But backstab is only spamable to an extent. Its not like i can dish out 4-5 backstabs without taking any damage at all. (and we cant take much damage). Also it takes a lot of time to land that many backstabs since we have a cooldown before we can go back to stealth again.

And it is not that easy to land a backstab on good players who know how to evade it. I have to be in stealth and i have to be behind my target… all that effort for 4k damage? I would be better off with auto attacking. And this is not even considering different ways to block it, like the warrior has… or the Guardian… half of my backstabs are missing on a guardian because he has so many ways to block it…

It’s probably very hard for the developers to find the right middle ground because you completely demolish people who dont know how to deal with the constant stealth + backstab but you have a hard time against people who do know how to deal with it.

I’m all for a nerf to the insta kill build the thief has. (Steal + CnD + Backstab + Assa Signet + Basi Venom). But it has to be nerfed in a way that it doesnt completely kill builds that dont use this combo, but still mainly make use of backstab.

Cap backstab damage to 8-10k or something

all problems solved.

I’m using a backstab build which isnt all damage based (i do around 8k backstabs MAX and around 6k on tankier people. 10k on low lvls) which would be useless if you nerf the raw damage of it.

Please dont nerf builds that dont insta gib people !

Yes, it is bugged on my server too.

they should have resetted the debuff before the change went online

Bump

still want a statement on this !

I would be careful with this. I was reading some time ago that there was a bug occuring that the precursors didnt work anymore in the recipe after transmutating them. I remember there was a statement from A net that they are looking into this. But im not sure if that Bug is fixed already.

I agree they should be based on your class.