Guild Wars 2

Been playing something similiar but with P/P and Hide in Shadows instead. It really feels like DE is supposed to be played with SA.

Using SR to stack stealth, mark someone and then wait out until he has a couple of stacks to instagib them out of stealth is pretty hilarious. P/P is pretty strong too with all the stealth you have and the damage unload does these days is pretty crazy.

If you mark someone and then start on P/P to get some stacks up then stealth up switch to rifle and then rifle4 them out of stealth really gets people by surprise aswell.

People have been asking for rifle on thief so many times it was inevitable that it would come at one point. Atleast we got it out of the way now and can get decent weapons for the next specialisations. Like rifle on thief, srsly? Of course it would be crap.

With that said DE is still pretty fun although i would never run it over Daredevil in ranked queues.

Hey guys

So id like to get a full set of ascended armor for my ele

What is the quickest way to get it? Crafting? Perhaps something else?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Is it just me or is BD really slow to activate sometimes? It feels really clunky

Anyone else noticed this?

I should be facing legendary players in legendary and not in amber.

All that was added today is pretty much a huge reward track. I actually wanted to put some time into this season and go for legendary because the games been quite fun recently but guess i am gonna pass now.

Perhaps you will be able to come up with a proper system next season arena net … i have my doubts.

learn to play the map maybe?

enemy team has a lord too you know

DA Trickery SA D/P is the best vanilla spec

goodluck

My main is thief

MadVisions.4529:

what about balancing the game insted of this?

The game will never be completely balanced there will always be certain builds that are stronger then everything else hence spammed in queues. No matter how much you tweak the game its impossible to avoid.

I am not talking about banning out entire professions since there aren’t that many to begin with.

But what if we could ban traitlines? For example if you do not want to face chronomancer you ban the chronomancer traitline. Don’t want to face a trickery thief? Ban trickery. No beastmastery? Ban it. Don’t want to face power rev? Ban Herald.

Wouldn’t something like this promote more build diversity?

not sure but doesnt it compete with swiftness on kits? if so no one will run it pretty much

Gabriell.4856:

Vieteriukko.6075:

Funny, the thief received no buffs but nerfs in several past months. Back then there was match making topics every day complaining that thieves are dead weight and predict to be lost game if you had those squishies in your team.

Now player created meta has moved on and suddenly thief is considered strong again. Cure for meta issues is not change of code but evolve with meta.

Several months…how far are we going back?

Anet F’ed up several months back when they increased thief initiative regen. They nerfed a trait which impact one or two builds yet buff the natural initiative regen for all builds. Stupid move in my opinion. That along with the sigil buff allows thief to spec completely out of CS and into 6/0/2/0/6 and still output high damage.

1 trait? lol

do some research because not just 1 trait got nerfed but several

ill help u a little tho… back then meta build used 3 ini regen traits that were nerfed

also PS hits like a wet noodle on anything but zerker

EremiteAngel.9765:

I got stomped by a dragon-finisher thief earlier while roaming on my Guardian…
I had no idea his daze lasted so long and I was thinking whether I should waste my one stun break on his daze when I got downed.

It all happened in like 2-3 seconds.

daze hit hit dead guardian.

I am starting to wonder if a thief’s daze should be nerfed.

LOL omg now i understand why u make all these threads

Tell me, do you mainly roam? How many games do you have in PvP? My guess is below 1k

1-2 hours left bois and we will see if you people whined enough

EremiteAngel.9765:

guys would appreciate some support in this thread on thief’s steal having some cost thanks!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Make-steal-use-initiatives/first#post5143713

wow ure desperate lmao

zinkz.7045:

Sizzle Hint.1820:

Abjured won the last ESL monthly without a thief… against a team that used a thief. But here you are saying that thief is a must have in every team comp… hmm…

For three years, there has been a thief on nearly every team, with the odd rare exception like TP, until eventually even they switched to thief, Pax final, WTS finals, etc, thief on each team, EU qualifiers TCG – thief, Orange Logo- thief, MC – thief, etc, that the odd team runs no thief occasionally, changes nothing, the class is and has been vastly overrepresentated for the entire game, for a very simple reason it is too strong at what it does.

P.S – I am pretty sure Abjured could win NA with all sorts of comps, given the general lack of competition.

People are saying thief is mandatory for every single team composition. The abjured ran a team composition without a thief. Won a cash tournament with it. If thief would be as broken and overpowered, why would they decide against running a thief in a cash tournament? Maybe they decided to cripple their team composition on purpose? Or they thought that a thief doesnt bring as much to their team comp as another class which means thief wasnt mandatory in their eyes?

zinkz.7045:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I don’t agree with this since if Thief is really that imbalance, then why aren’t the teams consists of 5 Thieves then?

There are 8 classes 5 slots, when 1 class permanently gets a slot that is imbalanced.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Why do you think a Thief is the best counter to another Thief? It is because one of the reason is because Thief can interrupt the enemy Thief.

LOL, so the answer to counter broken is counter with the same broken class, nor is just the low cast time skills, it is the “punishment” other classes skills go on a cooldown, in fact I seem to remember, though it has been a long time since I checked that you didn’t even lose the initiative cost, depending on the skill and where in the animation you were interrupted. (talking weapon skills obviously, though BS like withdraw is also silly)

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Are you talking about the Warrior or the Guardian? Perhaps Engineer?

Erm no, neither warrior nor engy have been permanent must have picks for 3 years, warrior was not on many teams for a long time, engy was ok for a long time, but it is only since cele it has been on nearly every team like a thief has for three years. Bunker guard was on nearly every team for a very long time, and now you have lots of medi guards, but really it isn’t the same thing.

Now things like cele engy, shoutbow, medi guard, etc may be OP, however these are balanceable, thief is not.

Thief has had plenty of nerfs and it has not solved the real issues, even after all these nerfs there is still a thief on nearly every team, it is still far too good as a roamer and plus 1, to the point no other class can compete, most can’t even compete simply as a glass cannon, even without taking the roaming/+1 ability of thief into account, the basic design of thief is broken OP, and the only way to balance it is to rework some core aspects, it is as simple as that.

Though feel free to explain why it is balanced that one class should permanently have a guaranteed spot regardless of meta, regardless of balance changes, when there are 5 slots to share between 8 classes.

Abjured won the last ESL monthly without a thief… against a team that used a thief. But here you are saying that thief is a must have in every team comp… hmm…

Jon Peters (developer, in charge for balance i think?) said a few weeks ago during lifestream that “People that think thief is overpowered, do not play thief.”

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

You know a thread is going no where when warriors are demanding nerfs

How many teams ran 2 thieves vs 2 warriors

Honestly speaking warriors should be gutted.

To be fair; Thief is “Over powered” (and yes, it is) at a specific role, which is roaming burst and mobility capper.

Warrior is OP at team fighting and support roles. It should be fairly obvious why one is more likely to be stacked than the other. Just because a thief is terrible when stacked because they are just too squishy to fight on point doesn’t mean they aren’t a bit over the top for the role they take up. 5 zerker warriors, 5 shatter Mesmers, 5 power rangers and 5 zerker necros would also likely be pretty bad outside of some trolly moments.

Common mistake to use the “thief stacking is bad so thief is bad” logic, but it is just that, a mistake. Different builds fill entirely different roles, but that doesn’t mean within its classification it can’t also be too strong. Apples and oranges.

But i think warrior should be gutted since my support thief cant compete with support warrior. I mean warrior is pushing my support thief out of support role since its so crazy broken.

Time to flood the forum with some warrior nerf threads, its non sense that my support thief is not viable because warrior is so much better…

that song is amazing

i am a warrior ! Easy to play !

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Leaping the full distance while crippled is 10,000x better than leaping some extra unit while under swiftness.

I disagree… HS without swiftness feels horrible =/

I think this is already possible somehow? I knew i saw phantaram do it on stream changing the cursor to different icons

Quadox.7834:

Ravenmoon.5318:

serenke.4806:

Ravenmoon.5318:

WhiteCrow.5310:

serenke.4806:

It’s really hard to see why you would defend the mechanic that you can attack from stealth and get blocked and then not get revealed. How is that not absolutely broken?

It’s the shining example of their forgiving gameplay. If you’re dumb enough to attack someone with a block up, you should be punished. But alas ..

If the block has a counter (E.g. ranger gs block or warrior sword block) it does counter properly.

If it doesn’t then it doesn’t punish. Simple as that.

Also define punish. Why should someone be punished because you decided to go invulnerable? Which class actually gets punished for attacking blocking character? Every decent player auto-attacks until your block/mist is gone.

This change makes absolutely 0 sense. It won’t help you beat thieves. You’ll still die to them. If you can’t see that, you are a baddie.

Just my 2 cents.

Quite simple. Have you ever seen a movie about snipers? It’s usually about hiding and hoping that you notice the enemy before they notice you. The one who shoots reveals his location (in the movies anyhow) and the other one has an advantage. That’s how you feel when you know the thief went into stealth. If you block a thief when he is attacking from stealth he is like the sniper that gave away his location. He should be forced to hide again/switch location, but no, in our case he can just shoot again and again until he finally headshots you (you ran out of blocks). It’s not that he should be “punished” or that this would help anyone beat thieves, it just does not make sense and it eradicates any smart counterplay.

“Punish” in this case is being revealed which makes absolute sense since the thief in question attacked after all.

This is guild wars 2, not call of duty.
But using your analogy. Please enlighten me how are you going to stop a sniper bullet with a sword. This kitten is viable only in bollywood movies.

Also the thief doesn’t attack from 2 miles away. They are in your melee range and after the block popup you very well know where the said thief is.

If you don’kittens L2P issue.

They can use shortbow auto from stealth to immob (even double-immob). I can dodge three of theese om my mes, get hit by the fourth one and still die. That is why people don’t like it.

Or you could distort it and reflect it right back into his face…

Only really playing shatter

med guards by far… good thing is you can get away from them most of the time

tyresias.2306:

Omocha.4931:

I’d say he’s right! Thieves are OP! Lowest HP pool in the game and shabby condi removal, quite a hard choice between survivability and burst overall, no invulnerability, stability, summons or decent condi damage. No spammable skills due to initiative restrictions, but yes! OP! Remove the stealth and the half-broken shadowsteps, pl0x! And while at it, remove their weapons too! Give them a broom!

It’s on the same note with “Ranger OP! 1500 Rapid Shot happy wefs!” and “Necro OP! Remove Death Shroud and Lich Form pl0x!”. How about remove the attunements from eles too?! Make each weapon only give 1 att or 2. And give mesmers only 1 clone, remove the virtues and Elite Focus from guardians and maybe the stances from warriors. You might as well, take the grenades and elixirs away from engineers! Hell! Even better! Give every class a broom as the only weapon!

I get what you’re doing… It’s not funny. But I get it.
Although blind and fury-filled threads are not the best way to begin a discussion, it not a coincidence that so many threads for the thief exist nowadays. What the OP is trying unsuccessfully to do is to highlight the dominance of a specific class in the PvP environment. I do think that everyone kittenpects himself and does some basic pvp knows this to be true. And that’s nothing new.

The difference between the classes you mentioned and the thief is that none of those are represented in top tier pvp. Very very few exceptions. Don’t take this as patronizing, but ranger’s 1500 range and ‘’hurr durr second HP bar necroes’’ is not even close to the problem the thief is creating. Pushing basically every other possible zerk build out, and directly counter them without much retaliation. I am not saying rangers mesmers etc. cannot do the same role as the thief, it’s just that the thief outclass them and many others by a large margin.

you realize 90% of the people complaining are just trolls right?

Its not terrormancers who are doing it, power necros are.

+50% dmg while downed trait + Air + Fire + Spinal shivers proc

Vampirism is a legit complain thats pretty much it…

Whats up with all these thief nerf threads lately? They were entertaining at first but getting old pretty quickly….

Thief hardcounters necro kind of made me laugh though good job on that one

I like that good idea !

Shadow.1345:

ResJudicator.7916:

The difference is that you can see the channeled skills being activated. And once you counterplay (dodge/block/los/interrupt) them, they go on a cooldown and can’t be re-used until the cooldown resets. Stealth doesn’t have any of these limitations.

But I agree with ending stealth on a dodge/block/blind without adding any reveal debuff. I honestly don’t even think this would affect thieves in many situations (i.e. when they’re +1ing to gank). It makes the biggest difference for those situations where the guy knows you’re backstabbing, and he dodges it, but you still have enough time left in stealth to backstab again so he has to burn another dodge. (Not everyone can just AOE their feet in response to a missed backstab).

You know you make a really good point about interrupts and being able to see channeled skills being cast and it made think about something. BS is the real issue it seems, that and the whole resetting fights. The way I see the resetting fights is it works both ways. The thief heals up some, though the heal from SR is means staying in an area outlined as the thief is here with 5 pulses for 1865 which gives 9325 health but being kept to a general area. Still nothing stops the other class from healing and during that time the thief is sitting in stealth after SR, up to 15 seconds, the opponents skills are cooling down.

Yet back to the BS and stealth not going back onto some sort of CD or being uninterruptible so I logged in just to test this and found that BP has a cast time of 1/2 seconds before the blind is applied. It also has one of the most unique sounds and creates a field around the thief before the animation is finished for the long ranged blind to be applied. Then HS must be used so for that combo it can be interrupted and cost initiative which basically translates as to thief weapon CDs. CnD has a 1/2 second cast time and very noticeable animation. SR has a 1/4 second cast time and I have had it interrupted and put on CD on me more than once. Blinding Powders is instant but it does come with a CD. (I’m not really able to test it right now but I seem to remember that interrupting thief weapon skills does make them go on that same global CD when they are dazed but not 100% sure on that. I could be wrong.) When a backstab is evaded by a dodge roll then that is a 1/4 second animation plus the time to travel by foot or by IS (Signet active w/CD) or Steal(CD) or trying to SS and hit the backstab before the bullet connects but that is not very feasible at that range before the stealth wears off. So you basically made me realize that interrupts/dodges are also a counterplay to stealth as well so I take back the idea about ending stealth on an evaded attack because channeled attacks that last longer than the evade time still continue to do damage.

Stopped reading at SR heals for 9,3k health…

Yes and perplexity after that pls

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Nope did not get owned by a thief, sorry conspiracy theory thieves. Only thief to own me in recent days was a really really good sword/dagger one and even then after 3rd encouter he had some major hard time with my ranger. On to the subject:

LOL yes sure… pretty obvious u got farmed by a thief now youre here to cry on the forums asking for “balance”

you know i ate a 13k rapid fire yesterday on my thief in spvp, yes? Why dont you play one for a week instead of crying here.

Just saw the recent news and it says core specs will come next content patch. Do they mean next tuesday?

Anybody knows? ty vm

John Corpening.9847:

This is a work in progress and the UI for it made it out on accident today. We have corrected that.

Since we spilled the beans on it, I’m happy to let you know that this feature has come about from the feedback we have received from our community during our Stronghold Betas. We hope to be showing it for real in the next test we do for Stronghold.

John

I really hope this means that we can chose to play one or another. If so kudos to you, very good decision. I really dont want to be forced to play conquest when i just wanna do some stronghold.

However, courtyard does neither fit into conquest nor does it fit into stronghold. Question is what is gonna happen to courtyard? We wont be able to queue for it anymore?

I really hope you give us a SEPERATE queue for courtyard aswell and maybe make it 3vs3 instead of 5vs5, because it feels more like WvW zerging atm.

Ross Biddle.2367:

silentnight warrior.2714:

The main problem with mesmer imo is the ability to interrupt the enemy at the same time it can remove stability.
No build should be able to remove stability and have a good amount of CC. Thats is not balanced at all.

You realize you just described Thief, right? Only for thief it’s insta cast with zero setup, has a 20s cd, a minimum range of 900, and doesn’t just strip but steals the stabos. And that’s not even the half of what will happen.

you forgot to add that a thief dedicates a full traitline to do it

Saiyan.1704:

My curiosity.

I could only imagine what you were doing for a whole hour in HotM. I woukd have restarted queue at the 10m mark.

restarting queue doesnt work for me… it’s still endless queue without getting into games… this is the worst bug i have encountered so far

He was probably stuck in a match before…

Happened to me aswell now my queue is bugged and i dont get into games just stuck in queue

Even more casual? It should be way more hardcore mate…

Gonna quote myself from another thread in the mesmer forum…

Sizzle Hint.1820:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Sizzle Hint.1820:

data.4093:

I find it incredible that ecto isn’t nerfed, a 50% uptime of almost all boons. It’s interesting that the rune version of this skill was nerfed into the ground a long time ago- rune of lyssa. It removed all conditions and granted all boons for 5(not 10!) seconds but this was apparently too strong. Now it removes 5 conditions and grants boons based on how many conditions you had. This was a meta rune at the time but after the change, mesmers, warriors, thieves and everyone else stopped running it. The condition removal part stayed essentially the same but that wasn’t why it became meta and Anet knew it- it was the boons. How can Anet claim that 5 seconds of boons every 45 sec is OP but 10 seconds of boons every 20 seconds is balanced?

how many times does it have to be reapeated sigh

it was already said by the developers that every single ability the thief can steal will be reworked…

The stolen abilities, yes. But steal mechanics themselves? Needs addressing.

And how should it be reworked then? Give it a cast time? You know this would change gameplay fundamentally right? Thief is supposed to combo his abilities together with his shadowsteps …

HS -> Steal
BP -> Steal
CnD -> Steal
LS -> Steal
CB -> Steal
Stabsteals

… just to name a few would all not work anymore. It is safe to assume that steal will never get a cast time unless the class mechanic is completely reworked.

What i could see them doing is to give it an icon on the thieves buff bar when steal is off-cd to give it more counterplay like mesmer mantras have.

This thread is pure gold

sounds legit

/15

Amir.1570:

Like I said a long time ago, Shatter Mes isn’t a hard build to play. But I don’t think it’s that effective either, just that it’s a braindead annoying class to deal with. There is literally nothing hard about evade spam while damaging.

The problem is the pathetic Mesmer community who thinks whatever their doing takes skill when there are builds that take WAY MORE skill than shatter mesmer.

In which case pray that they don’t nerf the things that keep easy mode evade while dps specs balanced.

Which ones do require way more skill than the shatter mesmer? Can you please eloberate?

Sorel.4870:

Sizzle Hint.1820:

then a net decided it would be better to take it out again because teams are having too long queue times…

Come on now. I can understand a little bit of nostalgia. But this is just plain wrong: solo queue times could be over 10-15 minutes, and I was under rank 80 back then! Most solo players were playing in teamq, because there were fewer 4v5s, shorter queue times, better rotations. There were threads about the joke soloq was.

You can be in favor of soloq because the idea appeals to you. You don’t need to reinvent the history of this game to make a point. Or do you?

i was doing a lot of solo queue back then and never had problems with queue times not even in higher MMR brackets (i was in top 1k, nr 18 on the LB top). However i only played untill mid december 2013 so no idea how it was later on

However 4vs5 were a huge problem

Regardless, not having a solo queue is a huge problem atm atleast for me as i play spvp rather casually so i dont have a team. I can only hope that with HoT and the increased playerbase there will be a solo queue option again.

TheGrimm.5624:

Um, by your definition you are not a PvPer actually. Conquest isn’t PvP, its PPT. You don’t have to fight anyone to win at Conquest, you don’t even have to kill an NPC, you just have to stand on filling circles. So are you are actually asking for a new team Deathmatch map like Courtyard? You might want to change your thread title.

haha made my day thanks man

thanks karl <3

can you pls show us the thief spec now ?

Spiking other zerkers in less than a second from stealth never gets old !

I love mesmer and with hot it’s gonna be so amazing i might put most of my time into it.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Sizzle Hint.1820:

data.4093:

I find it incredible that ecto isn’t nerfed, a 50% uptime of almost all boons. It’s interesting that the rune version of this skill was nerfed into the ground a long time ago- rune of lyssa. It removed all conditions and granted all boons for 5(not 10!) seconds but this was apparently too strong. Now it removes 5 conditions and grants boons based on how many conditions you had. This was a meta rune at the time but after the change, mesmers, warriors, thieves and everyone else stopped running it. The condition removal part stayed essentially the same but that wasn’t why it became meta and Anet knew it- it was the boons. How can Anet claim that 5 seconds of boons every 45 sec is OP but 10 seconds of boons every 20 seconds is balanced?

how many times does it have to be reapeated sigh

it was already said by the developers that every single ability the thief can steal will be reworked…

The stolen abilities, yes. But steal mechanics themselves? Needs addressing.

And how should it be reworked then? Give it a cast time? You know this would change gameplay fundamentally right? Thief is supposed to combo his abilities together with his shadowsteps …

HS → Steal
BP → Steal
CnD → Steal
LS → Steal
CA → Steal
Stabsteals

… just to name a few would all not work anymore. It is safe to assume that steal will never get a cast time unless the class mechanic is completely reworked.

What i could see them doing is to give it an icon on the thieves buff bar when steal is off-cd to give it more counterplay like mesmer mantras have.

data.4093:

I find it incredible that ecto isn’t nerfed, a 50% uptime of almost all boons. It’s interesting that the rune version of this skill was nerfed into the ground a long time ago- rune of lyssa. It removed all conditions and granted all boons for 5(not 10!) seconds but this was apparently too strong. Now it removes 5 conditions and grants boons based on how many conditions you had. This was a meta rune at the time but after the change, mesmers, warriors, thieves and everyone else stopped running it. The condition removal part stayed essentially the same but that wasn’t why it became meta and Anet knew it- it was the boons. How can Anet claim that 5 seconds of boons every 45 sec is OP but 10 seconds of boons every 20 seconds is balanced?

how many times does it have to be reapeated sigh

it was already said by the developers that every single ability the thief can steal will be reworked…

long time ago people complained there was no solo queue…

then a net implemented solo queue…

then a net decided it would be better to take it out again because teams are having too long queue times…

now people are complaining there is no solo queue… AGAIN…

gg wp anet

Black Box.9312:

EremiteAngel.9765:

I think all of you are missing the point.

They can now daze you from range!

Steal -> then once steal finish CD -> activate F2 daze -> while its casting, quickly activate steal to teleport to you and daze you

they don’t need to be near you now to activate daze

and if they time it right, they got a 2nd daze in their F2 to use again.

can you imagine a blink daze on you now?

But they can already do that with something like Infiltrator’s Signet? It’s not even that powerful of a combo. I don’t really get what the big deal is.

you dont even need infil signet for it…

steal → wait 21 sec → f1 → f1

with the change it will be

steal → wait 21 sec → f2 → f1

eremite stop with these posts please… like in every single prof forum there is a thread from you complaining how this will make thief riddicolous op when in fact all it changes is that we can now see the cooldown of our steal while we carry a bundle…

they already said that the stolen abilities will ALL be reworked… consume plasma might not be the same after hot comes out…

everything u said can already be done… with steal… without infil signet