Guild Wars 2

Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497:

Warrost.4895:

babazhook.6805:

Warrost.4895:

The initiative cost of rifle is too high.
If deadeye would offer a kind of faster initiative regen, this would shake up meta alot.

The costs are fine and in line with any other set if not cheaper for the effecs achieved.

since there are so many blocks and reflects and on top of that, gap closers literally everywhere, even costs of 0 wouldn’t help, since deadeye doesn’t have the possibility for unblocking attacks.

You do know that thief has a number of tricks up his sleeves that renders those points moot?

Basilisk Venom turns your #4 shot into an unblockable apocalypse in the form of a lead projectile. The 1.5 second stun allows you to tag them again with your #4 with impunity, or you can just lay into them with tripple tap.

Shadow Step and that Shadow Flare thingy both allows you to shadow step while immobile. To my knowledge there is nothing that will stop a thief from shadow stepping to safety. On top of that, the rule for Shadowstep is you may shadowstep ANYWHERE in your range as long as you can walk there without jumping. This means you can shadow step to the third story of a building from the streets if you wanted.

You’re allowed to shadowstep while your #4 skill is channeling.

Swapping weapons will immediately break your kneel and allow you to move around.

Cursed Bullet is unblockable.

If you really wanted to you can combine daredevil and Deadeye together (and it some how works beautifully). The added benefit of this is that Daredevil’s number 5 ability DOES NOT follow the same rules as a shadow step. You can use this to jump across gaps you would normally not be able to, or land in some positions that forces another player to use range or run (which deadeye obviously outperforms them in).

Wat?

Did that really get said?

Only one elite Spec can be active at any given time…..

megilandil.7506:

DMG dont truly matter here the real problem is:
what the hell they are smoking when had the idea:
-give the most movile class , the one whith more disengage capability, the one with major invisibility acces 1500 range atacks
if they cant oneshot with that atack the problem is still real. they had an enormous capacity to mantain that kittening 1500 range (300 units more than normal max range ranged attacks)

Well to even use he skill they have to give up a lot of mobility. And the large tells and the skill reveals before any damage….

@ Erzian they do they have to put a lot into that i.e. Take every trait that provides a modifier and to let the Mark build up otherwise it will hit for only 5-7k how about so a full screenshot to show the dame right after it lands to see your no setup…. because full context is everything and it’s been proven people try to skew everything to their end… or better yet make a video since every video so far shows quite a bit of setup for the 20k plus shots(inb4 I can’t record a video because reasons)…. but hey again it’s not like their aren’t 3 very large tells involved with the skill and the Thief being almost completely immobile to even use it…

Erzian.5218:

Trakarg.2095:

You failed to avoid an attack that hits you after a giant, obvious laser targets you for like one full second.

git gud.

By that logic, other skills such as mind wrack, back breaker, maul, gravedigger etc should also deal 30+k damage if the player equips berserker amulet. Somehow they are far away from that though. True shot was nerfed a hundred times despite dealing less than a third of the damage.

You act as though Maul could never hit for over 24k + and recently even, you act as though Mesmers couldn’t Burst for that much.

You act as though that Burst on DJ required one skill not 3+ with obvious large tells, he’ll DJ reveals Thief before any damage is even applied. Lulz.

Nilkemia.8507:

So basically any class that doesn’t have reflects is screwed. And for the ones that do, the Deadeye can just…you know…not shoot until the reflect’s over? This is the same class that can jump you, run off and reset any damage they take and still come back fully healed while the target is still recovering.

So nothing changed after. PvP is still only good for reward tracks and dailies, the classes that were already strong got stronger, and the ones that needed something got a few flashy things, that look neat at first until one realizes that they don’t really work.

Except Deadeye loses a lot of its mobility to even setup the Burst and you know there are other defenses besides reflects…… bronze must be hard…..

And again it’s not like there aren’t 3 large tells to it…….

I find CS/Acro/De to be very effective with S/D rifle as a off weapon.

Heapheaus.5238:

Sly.9518:

Bratec.7136:

Sly.9518:

Bratec.7136:

Luclinraider.2317:

This post needs to be removed by the mods.

This post has done nothing but try and maliciously overstate the possible damage that can be done in order to have a class that is actually fairly underpowered already, nerfed.

Please read Sly’s post above. With this setup, an auto attack from almost any class would likely crit for around 30-40k. It’s a scenario that is entirely impossible to replicate in actual play. If I had done this exact set up on my warrior with Thousand blades I likely could have pushed around 250k damage.

Can you do math and show how for example, Ranger, would hit for 30-40k with this stack with 1 ability?

Prove your point.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rJcVCW_bwOs

Doesn’t need any setup from other players with all buffs. And was one ability…

1. It is not normal and any Ranger will say this, and this will be fixed.
2. You say ability with 107k dmg is normal .

No 107k isn’t normal and required a ridiculous amount of setup, thatas where reading comprehension comes into play, 2 you asked for proof of Ranger doing over 30k on one skill I provided the proof which didn’t require any setup, you try to claim that doesn’t count claiming it’s unrealistic but hey the Ranger didn’t need 4 other classes to buff them to achieve those numbers and it’s not like Rangers aren’t capable of locking people down with immobs or knock downs to almost guarantee those types of attacks from landing……. funny.

The thing with the Thief damage that to get any large numbers from that skill requires the highly visible marked target to be marked for over 14 secs, blow a few CDs be in a highly visible kneeling position that is essentially completely immobile and the skill has a large highly visble glowing beam tell connecting to the target before damage is ever applied on top of the player having to run a build solely dedicated to being glassy with none of the normal utility to do anything else essentially like D/D signets making it useless outside of that one Burst every 30-40 secs…… and let’s not forget it’s a projectile that is easily negated

The average Deaths Judgement hits for 7-12k with under the most realistic scenarios.

And like said Anet has a month and a lot of these skills will most likely be changed…

just correcting your last statement; I can get 20k with 1 stack of malice on this build with the correct setup. When I say “Setup” thats against a full hp target with close to no vuln. This is Deadeye’s mark > kneel > DJ > boom 20k; most targets die. This skill hits much much harder than gunflame ever could have hoped. Yes even with that old bug where gunflame hit twice.

I have been playing extensively with every Damage Modifier possible the build with 1 stack of malice will only hit for about 6-8k on a target at full health but go ahead lol.

So yeah provide the proof of your 1 malice 20k hit on a full HP target with no bulb stacks in normal fight.

I will wait.

Also players in this forum act like there are zero Tells on this combo Burst like if only it had an Indicator over the targeted players head and at their feet or a large highly visible orange laser marking the target before the Burst ever hits or how about a kneeling stationary Thief

Bratec.7136:

Sly.9518:

Bratec.7136:

Luclinraider.2317:

This post needs to be removed by the mods.

This post has done nothing but try and maliciously overstate the possible damage that can be done in order to have a class that is actually fairly underpowered already, nerfed.

Please read Sly’s post above. With this setup, an auto attack from almost any class would likely crit for around 30-40k. It’s a scenario that is entirely impossible to replicate in actual play. If I had done this exact set up on my warrior with Thousand blades I likely could have pushed around 250k damage.

Can you do math and show how for example, Ranger, would hit for 30-40k with this stack with 1 ability?

Prove your point.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rJcVCW_bwOs

Doesn’t need any setup from other players with all buffs. And was one ability…

1. It is not normal and any Ranger will say this, and this will be fixed.
2. You say ability with 107k dmg is normal .

No 107k isn’t normal and required a ridiculous amount of setup, thatas where reading comprehension comes into play, 2 you asked for proof of Ranger doing over 30k on one skill I provided the proof which didn’t require any setup, you try to claim that doesn’t count claiming it’s unrealistic but hey the Ranger didn’t need 4 other classes to buff them to achieve those numbers and it’s not like Rangers aren’t capable of locking people down with immobs or knock downs to almost guarantee those types of attacks from landing……. funny.

The thing with the Thief damage that to get any large numbers from that skill requires the highly visible marked target to be marked for over 14 secs, blow a few CDs be in a highly visible kneeling position that is essentially completely immobile and the skill has a large highly visble glowing beam tell connecting to the target before damage is ever applied on top of the player having to run a build solely dedicated to being glassy with none of the normal utility to do anything else essentially like D/D signets making it useless outside of that one Burst every 30-40 secs…… and let’s not forget it’s a projectile that is easily negated

The average Deaths Judgement hits for 7-12k with under the most realistic scenarios.

And like said Anet has a month and a lot of these skills will most likely be changed…

Bratec.7136:

Luclinraider.2317:

This post needs to be removed by the mods.

This post has done nothing but try and maliciously overstate the possible damage that can be done in order to have a class that is actually fairly underpowered already, nerfed.

Please read Sly’s post above. With this setup, an auto attack from almost any class would likely crit for around 30-40k. It’s a scenario that is entirely impossible to replicate in actual play. If I had done this exact set up on my warrior with Thousand blades I likely could have pushed around 250k damage.

Can you do math and show how for example, Ranger, would hit for 30-40k with this stack with 1 ability?

Prove your point.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rJcVCW_bwOs

Doesn’t need any setup from other players with all buffs. And was one ability…

And again to even get over 10k one character has to be marked for over 14 secs with a mark above their head so it’s pretty easy to tell they will get Deaths Judgement which has a large tell by its self….. and it needs to have Assassins Signet activated so again it relies on a decent amount of setup that can be negated extremely easily.

And Caedmon people will always complain no matter what look gunflame and Kill shot can still hit over 12-15k and doesn’t require as much setup…… but hey facts are pesky things aren’t they…

But hey hopefully there is enough competence before launch that all the ridiculous things on these ES gets toned down since they have a month to analyze 3 days worth of data……..

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

107 k should never kittening be feasiable in pvp even with 25 mightstacks and on a berserker amulet, what kind of nonsense is this? this is kittened. even without it will do insane damage.

That was 25 might stacks, all Spirits, Ranger Boons and Spotter, with full Banners from war and Rev Ferocity, and most likely with Edison wearing no armor and most likely had 25 stacks of Vulnerability was half health and just standing there doing nothing in that picture while the Thief in question was probably running DA/CS/DE after waiting 14 secs to get max damage modifiers, setting up for this hilarious almost entirely impossible to ever replicate damage in a real Pvp match.

Kestrel.7890:

I’m definitely disappointed after all this time, they still haven’t brought back the ritualist, paragon and dervish.

Rev is essentially ritualist…. ritualists channel spirits from the mists Revs channel spirits from the mists…..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rJcVCW_bwOs

lolDeadeye

Granted this is highly unlikely to happen in a real match or anywhere close

But atill lulz worthy

Oh nooooo so much damage oh nooooo

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rJcVCW_bwOs

This build was most likely running pure Zerker ammy running CS/Tr/DE with Scholar Runes and Two damage modifier Sigils to accuse that damage.

So essentially you got hit by a Player that can be one shot relatively easily……since it probably only had 11K hp and let you sit under Mark over 14-20 secs before taking the shot…….

It’s not all that much difference from the Rangers that built pure glass and Mauled for over 30k in Pvp before they nerfed the Signet…

Lulz Thief needed a Ranged option and base Thief alone is assassin playstyle already, and Ranger is defined by having the pet……. and didn’t need another long range option especially since it already has two… and did you even look at the Lore behind spellbreaker? It shows why it’s warriors and not mesmers…..

Ceesa.1350:

I’m ok with having to remember to re-mark, but what saddens me is that marking targets aggros them. I mean, of course it does, because it does damage, but I would really like there to be some mechanic where I can do some real sniping, where I mark the target and it stays unaware, then I just unload onto it.

But yeah, that’s only ok in a PvE setting, and I know the skill needs to be balanced for all game modes.

Don’t use Mug and no damage is applied…….. problem solved.

Mel.3064:

SkipperCZ.6912:

Is it really such big deal to test with everyone for 3 days in unranked???
Really?

I am glad to have it like this and see what we can expect.

Yes it is a big deal, I wanted to dedicate this weekend to pvp since I need to get some reward tracks done. But now I guess I can scrap this plan.
Enabling the new elite specs outside of hotjoin games is a terrible idea, everyone seems to be just doing random chaos to try out the new specs instead of trying hard to win.

Reward tracks progress win or lose….. and everything is Essentially Unranked during off season, lol. You can still grind out reward tracks.

It’s not like losing or winning has very much effect on anything right now.

Zoltreez.6435:

Sly.9518:

Zoltreez.6435:

Sly.9518:

saerni.2584:

Hard to say…many people run multiple characters towards the top.

I mean I killed a person several times with a platinum tag on 1v1 in HotM arena who tried to gank me multiple times. I don’t know if they were a thief main, alt, trying out a new build or what…but they died like a low tier bronze player and hit about as hard too.

Condition thief has just as much access to Shadowstep and more so on S/X. Offhand SB can add distance too. Not sure how D/P + SB is somehow better at disengage. Sure you can on demand stealth but…teleport distance is far more crucial to disengage.

Not knowing how Stealth vastly improves disengage is very telling……

Condi Thieves have to us Ini more so than Power builds to get their Condis to any respectable level of damage so they likely won’t have enough the Ini to disengage with SB. And that leaves IR and SS for disengage which are good but one relies on Ini and the other is on a 50 sec CD…….. yeah and most condi thieves don’t take Improvisation so no double SS because then they hit like a wet noodle….

Having to explain this is rather funny.

If Condi Thief either D/D or S/D were OP then anyone would be able to use it effectively and when a top 70 player can’t even kill a Zerker Thief running on 2-3 Condi cleanses on CDs shows it’s not that OP….

Again players complain because they don’t want to run Cleanses or they don’t know how to manage cleanses or generally know how to fight Thief in any iteration of it.

@ Zoltreez

That whole statement you just made paint s a very clear picture that isn’t favorable for your cause…… like I had stated earlier most competent players have no problems with a Condi Thieves and is the main reason you barely see any in Plat and up. Similar scenario happened with DH for the longest time people claimed it was so OP but rarely saw play in anything over Plat.

So one more time if a top 70 player can’t beat a Plat T2 Player with this supposed OP build when the Plat T2 player isn’t even using the Optimized Amulet with the minimal Condi clears…… while the people complaining can’t even beat the build with 4-5 people attacking it must mean something.

tell me when was the last time you catch a condi thief with 2 Power necro and a bunker Guard ?…..

Still broken tough….. you know i know everyone know…and i saw PLENTY of thiefs in high rank play… both condi and power….

funny when you have 3000 armor + 7% dmg reduction from melee and 20k HP and a single thief can kill you in 2-3 seconds after they jump you from nowhere….

Balance am i right ? give Thiefs something to be better in group play but this kitten needs a nerf…. you cant seriously defend the ammount of dmg they can do to a single player with that ammount of bloated mobility they have access to….

So you don’t know the mechanics I see, Condis ignore armor and regular damage reduction….. bringing up those two things in regards to Condis shows the picture crystal clear.

FYI any Condi build on the classes with Viable Condi Specs can Burst through those magnificent power damage mitigation stats in seconds.

all you need is to manage cleanses, and yeah 2 Necros and a guard can easily keep a Condi Thief locked down idk with chill, ccs warding effects, a 1200 range unblockable tether/pull that works through Evades, all of which are at those classes disposal…… and again a Condi Thief has to waste a lot of Ini to do any amount of damage so all you have to really worry about is IR and SS again as stated above those aren’t an issue.

i dont think its clear for you but here i talked abour a Power Thief…. lol LOGIC use it…

But Condi thiefs can prety much nuke down 20k+ HP in like 10 seconds or even less

and as a thief he can nonstop repeate it faster then your cleanses go off…

stop acting like a smart a…….

also the difference betwin the 2 ? classes have plenty of tools to avoid the burst… except necros they just stand there and take it then die…..

But condi thief dmg ? once your out of your only worthwhile cleanse your done for without team mate help……

This whole thread and all your complaints in it have been about Condi Thief so logic would dictate that you are complaining again about Condi Thief, but nice attempt at recovering from the telling slip up.

And let’s put it into Perspective Condi Thief barely seen in Plat or above for many reasons, of it was so called OP as you claim tha it is, it would be running rampant in all tiers of play because you know that’s what OP kinda suggests/means……. but alas it is not it gets shut down by almost any competent player with a Condi cleanse or two.

Again you bring up the non stop Evade mantra, the majority of Thief Evades Fromm weapon sets have punish frames baked in, and since the nerfs that Thief Evades have received the last few balance patches besides this most recent one makes them have even less Evades now if this was WvW you may have an inkling of an argument here since they get a lot more Evades in that game mode. But alas we are talking sPvP here where Thievs hardly have non stop Evades.

Exciton.8942:

Wisdom.4712:

Then why isn’t it preferred in higher tiers? Regardless, if you are constantly losing to a condi thief, you’re simply below average.

Because every meta build left in the game spec into max condition clear.

God forbids builds that have limited condition clear to ever enter the game again to facilitate the existence of one lame build in terms of gameplay.

Aka you think Condi builds shouldn’t do any damage or you should be able to cleanse without taking cleanses

Maybe if you know how to mitigate getting hit and using a Condi clear or two properly you wouldn’t have issues.

It is shut down by so many builds and any semi competent player.

Zoltreez.6435:

Sly.9518:

saerni.2584:

Hard to say…many people run multiple characters towards the top.

I mean I killed a person several times with a platinum tag on 1v1 in HotM arena who tried to gank me multiple times. I don’t know if they were a thief main, alt, trying out a new build or what…but they died like a low tier bronze player and hit about as hard too.

Condition thief has just as much access to Shadowstep and more so on S/X. Offhand SB can add distance too. Not sure how D/P + SB is somehow better at disengage. Sure you can on demand stealth but…teleport distance is far more crucial to disengage.

Not knowing how Stealth vastly improves disengage is very telling……

Condi Thieves have to us Ini more so than Power builds to get their Condis to any respectable level of damage so they likely won’t have enough the Ini to disengage with SB. And that leaves IR and SS for disengage which are good but one relies on Ini and the other is on a 50 sec CD…….. yeah and most condi thieves don’t take Improvisation so no double SS because then they hit like a wet noodle….

Having to explain this is rather funny.

If Condi Thief either D/D or S/D were OP then anyone would be able to use it effectively and when a top 70 player can’t even kill a Zerker Thief running on 2-3 Condi cleanses on CDs shows it’s not that OP….

Again players complain because they don’t want to run Cleanses or they don’t know how to manage cleanses or generally know how to fight Thief in any iteration of it.

@ Zoltreez

That whole statement you just made paint s a very clear picture that isn’t favorable for your cause…… like I had stated earlier most competent players have no problems with a Condi Thieves and is the main reason you barely see any in Plat and up. Similar scenario happened with DH for the longest time people claimed it was so OP but rarely saw play in anything over Plat.

So one more time if a top 70 player can’t beat a Plat T2 Player with this supposed OP build when the Plat T2 player isn’t even using the Optimized Amulet with the minimal Condi clears…… while the people complaining can’t even beat the build with 4-5 people attacking it must mean something.

tell me when was the last time you catch a condi thief with 2 Power necro and a bunker Guard ?…..

Still broken tough….. you know i know everyone know…and i saw PLENTY of thiefs in high rank play… both condi and power….

funny when you have 3000 armor + 7% dmg reduction from melee and 20k HP and a single thief can kill you in 2-3 seconds after they jump you from nowhere….

Balance am i right ? give Thiefs something to be better in group play but this kitten needs a nerf…. you cant seriously defend the ammount of dmg they can do to a single player with that ammount of bloated mobility they have access to….

So you don’t know the mechanics I see, Condis ignore armor and regular damage reduction….. bringing up those two things in regards to Condis shows the picture crystal clear.

FYI any Condi build on the classes with Viable Condi Specs can Burst through those magnificent power damage mitigation stats in seconds.

all you need is to manage cleanses, and yeah 2 Necros and a guard can easily keep a Condi Thief locked down idk with chill, ccs warding effects, a 1200 range unblockable tether/pull that works through Evades, all of which are at those classes disposal…… and again a Condi Thief has to waste a lot of Ini to do any amount of damage so all you have to really worry about is IR and SS again as stated above those aren’t an issue.

saerni.2584:

Hard to say…many people run multiple characters towards the top.

I mean I killed a person several times with a platinum tag on 1v1 in HotM arena who tried to gank me multiple times. I don’t know if they were a thief main, alt, trying out a new build or what…but they died like a low tier bronze player and hit about as hard too.

Condition thief has just as much access to Shadowstep and more so on S/X. Offhand SB can add distance too. Not sure how D/P + SB is somehow better at disengage. Sure you can on demand stealth but…teleport distance is far more crucial to disengage.

Not knowing how Stealth vastly improves disengage is very telling……

Condi Thieves have to us Ini more so than Power builds to get their Condis to any respectable level of damage so they likely won’t have enough the Ini to disengage with SB. And that leaves IR and SS for disengage which are good but one relies on Ini and the other is on a 50 sec CD…….. yeah and most condi thieves don’t take Improvisation so no double SS because then they hit like a wet noodle….

Having to explain this is rather funny.

If Condi Thief either D/D or S/D were OP then anyone would be able to use it effectively and when a top 70 player can’t even kill a Zerker Thief running on 2-3 Condi cleanses on CDs shows it’s not that OP….

Again players complain because they don’t want to run Cleanses or they don’t know how to manage cleanses or generally know how to fight Thief in any iteration of it.

@ Zoltreez

That whole statement you just made paint s a very clear picture that isn’t favorable for your cause…… like I had stated earlier most competent players have no problems with a Condi Thieves and is the main reason you barely see any in Plat and up. Similar scenario happened with DH for the longest time people claimed it was so OP but rarely saw play in anything over Plat.

So one more time if a top 70 player can’t beat a Plat T2 Player with this supposed OP build when the Plat T2 player isn’t even using the Optimized Amulet with the minimal Condi clears…… while the people complaining can’t even beat the build with 4-5 people attacking it must mean something.

Erzian.5218:

Sly.9518:

rwolf.9571:

because he instantly re-stacks you with some nice condi’s a second later. Playing a class with low mobility, and no range doesn’t help either. Say goodbye to your cleanses without sacrificing your point.

Also the small window of frames for you to time you attack is so small. Especially with long cast times.

Yeah not so much they are easy fodder to any competent Ele or Guard or Engie or condi Rev or Ventari Rev………. just to name a few.

I kill them all the time on my Menders Ele without ever running out of cleanses. Had to prove this point to someone in game when they claimed that they were so OP killing players with Condi Thief that were supposed oh in the top 10 and the player in question was top 70….. he died every single time over 20 fights to a Power Thief and Menders Ele…… and the funny thing I’m not that good on Ele or Power Thief lulz

It sounds like people either don’t run cleanses or don’t manage cleanses.

I wonder in which division thieves actually die to a menders ele instead of disengaging if needed.

The person was in the top 70 as I stated which would mean…….. can’t say the username cuz name and shaming .

And let’s not forget Condi theives generally lack mobility so disengage isn’t as powerful with them (ie no ini no disengage besides Shadowstep)

Some clarification, the player mains Ranger and DH for the leaderboard not Thief he is in the top 70 and was claiming how OP S/D Condi Thief was by claiming to kill players that are top 20 easily with it, I said it’s not OP he challenged me to 1v1 i proceeded to destroy him using Daredevil with Zerker Amulet, Core Thief with Zerker Amulet both of which only had Shadow Step and Signet of Agility(core build hadn’t withdraw) for the only Condi cleanses and Menders Ele.

Out of over 20+ fights I lost once on Core Zerker Thief.

zoopop.5630:

MachineManXX.9746:

Ivantreil.3092:

You guys are missing the point.

As en engie, i could slot Elixir C and be good with conditions, but its so kitten painful to dedicate an utility only for condi cleanse, when it could be used for something else, other survival utilities, uutilities that could improve your build, more damage, etc.

Theres nothing fun in sloting a forced cleanse only becuase a bomb condi dealer is around, in other words, its a counter that its not fun to play.

Actually, you seem to be missing the point. If something is problematic for you, then counter it. That’s kind of the name of the game. Choices. Give and take. Condi clear DOES improve your build. If you would rather not run condi clear, then you risk dieing to condi. Live (or die) with that decision but don’t start crying about it not being “fun”.

rather this may be true, it shouldn’t also mean an entire BUILD or WHOLE build should be based on condi cleansing. That’s the biggest issue with condi in general. It’s ok to have 1-2 utltily based on cleansing condi but when you need more then 2 ways to completely cleanse them off it becomes an issue for the entire meta.

You don’t need a whole build built around cleansing…. players just need to learn how to manage cleanses, and avoid the Condis through regular skills, most Meta builds have more than enough Condi Clears without dedicating all Utilities and traits to cleansing. On top of that they have Dodges, blocks, Evades, etc to combat having Condis ever applied, this all comes down to players wanting to only worry about spamming skills to do as much damage as possible. Condis in sPvP are easily negated/mitigated.

Players don’t want to l2p and get better. In Plat and up Condi builds were far and few between outside of the few Mesmer, Necros and Condi Revs which only made up a handful of players. There’s a reason that happens too since Condis are easily managed if a player fighting them has half a brain and a Condi cleanse or two.

With the advent of DE running DA/CS/DE or Tr/CS/DE you get a lot more damage than the old D/D Signet build. This time they will know that it’s coming.

The Assassins Signet Nerf is overshadowed by the Gains from Mark up to 21% damage modifiers which then benefits the Power gained by Assassins Signet.

Again multiple classes easily handle Condi Thief loook at the few I previously listed they handle them quite well and they are highly prevalent in Plat T2 and up. Again it comes down to managing cleanses.

Also you can hit Condi thieves since you are most likely referring to d/d Condi thieves which have punish frames baked in and let’s not forget the counters to Evades…. like static fields or warding effects or shock or auras etc.

rwolf.9571:

because he instantly re-stacks you with some nice condi’s a second later. Playing a class with low mobility, and no range doesn’t help either. Say goodbye to your cleanses without sacrificing your point.

Also the small window of frames for you to time you attack is so small. Especially with long cast times.

Yeah not so much they are easy fodder to any competent Ele or Guard or Engie or condi Rev or Ventari Rev………. just to name a few.

I kill them all the time on my Menders Ele without ever running out of cleanses. Had to prove this point to someone in game when they claimed that they were so OP killing players with Condi Thief that were supposed oh in the top 10 and the player in question was top 70….. he died every single time over 20 fights to a Power Thief and Menders Ele…… and the funny thing I’m not that good on Ele or Power Thief lulz

It sounds like people either don’t run cleanses or don’t manage cleanses.

Why anyone with half a brain and some cleanse can easily stop it in its tracks……..

Frozen.1347:

Eval.2371:

For example the following condi build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQRApX5MWOVm0AOYB1M6oE71ffeA-TFiAQBJS/gHOIAA4JAsk9H8oyvodCAipSwTp+DpAgZnG-w

Will pump out way more damage than something like:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAS8OW0UI2xcm2YXwE2w2FEgGA-TFCBQBA4KAoHdDaU5xB3fwkKBxwDBwSq/kRlYkCIixAA-w

Despite the fact that power build has even more stats in offense.

Did you actually test it? Can you provide some numbers? No? What a surprise …

Btw, of course some dire builds will deal more dps (which is irrelevant in actual pvp combat anyways, otherwise everyone would run pve dps builds, but whatever) than certain soldier builds, but for some classes/builds it can be the other way arround. So the general statement that dire grants more dmg/dps than soldier is simply wrong. It always a matter of the build and situation, not just gear or condis in general, but that’s something, many don’t seem to understand.

Funny thing is he has since those are two builds he runs/ ran on two different Revs…

sorayuki.8906:

While we’re on the topic, could someone explain to me how a 15,528 critical Vault is possible ? ( See screen shot )

Also whatever your gear/traits/food buffs affect these numbers just looking at a number in a vacuum without any additional info only causes speculation since their are multiple ways that this can happen.

At Turk your math is off on your numbers, modifiers are multiplicative not additive. So DA gives 32% if opponent is under 50% and have a condition on them, DrD gives 29% when the conditions for Staff Mastery and Bound are met on top of Havoc Master.

So if all Conditions for damage modifiers are met for a build i.e. Enemy at <50% hp have a condition Thief not at full endurance and used Bound and vaults with 4 secs while having Lead Attacks stacks. The Thief has anywhere from

79% damage modifiers to 96.5 using the Valks and DrD Runes. If using Scholar 116% damage modifiers.

If Anet keeps persisting on balancing all Thief skills around 15 ini as has been the case then they need to make Preparedness baseline, that is the only change actually required, all of Trickery’s other traits can stay exclusive to Triclery.

But having everything standard based on 15 initiative when the only way to achieve that is with a single trait is the worst class design ever.

Jormunaattori.2364:

Zalavaaris.5329:

That’s gotta be a bug… no way that would do that on purpose without knowing there would be a riot lol

Doesn’t look like many care. :P

It’s not that they don’t care it just not surprising, look at the history of adding an already existing tier of armor into a gamemode, Pvp Ascended had no Infusion slots for about a month after they added them in game….

Ryan.9387:

Sly.9518:

Reaper Alim.4176:

I stopped complaining. And joined the OP AF staff evade thief crowd. That spec don’t require much of a brain. Staff evade thief 1v1 IMO is one of the less counterable builds in small scale WvW.

Now image 3 or more roaming together. Any ways you guys should just stop complaining. And join the rest of us on the Staff Evade Daredevil overlords of small scale WvW. It’s fun to not only have 6 or more evades more then anyone else in the game, but to also have one of the highest burst in the game in a defensive mechanic.

Lulz complaining about Thieves from WvW in a PvP thread in the PvP subforum.

Completely different balance.

And it’s hilarious the tone of this thread OP states no counters to Evades, a player posts a fraction of the counters to Evades, the OP says those don’t count……..

And by the Logic of OP then no one should be able to do any damage while they are invuln, pseudo invuln or Blocking.

I don’t recall saying that.

Please don’t strawman me. Understand I’m a reasonable person who is just making what I feel is a reasonable suggestion about balance. I’ve been playing this game since launch for over 8000 games. I genuinely want pvp to be balanced and fun. The sentiment I’m voicing is shared by the vast majority of high mmr pvpers I know.

I could go into great detail about what changes the community would appreciate, but I know it would fall on deaf ears. The vitriol in this thread proves that. Its actually pretty depressing.

Honestly what I would love more than anything would be if Arenanet decided to read and consider a community designed balance suggestion document. I know my guild zlt would leap towards the challenge.

Hmm let’s see so you never said this?

Ryan.9387:

Chaith.8256:

Ryan.9387:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impaling_Lotus
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vault
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bounding_Dodger

There is no counter play to an evade.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shocking_Aura
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slick_Shoes
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Static_Shield
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sanctuary
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Surging

There are counters, any warding effect and abilities that stun through evades

Do you really think that the evade spam no-tell bursts is good game design or are you just here to argue semantics?

Which is essentially you dismissing those counters as if they don’t count…..

Since you know those are just a small fraction of the counters in game against Evades of all types.

Reaper Alim.4176:

I stopped complaining. And joined the OP AF staff evade thief crowd. That spec don’t require much of a brain. Staff evade thief 1v1 IMO is one of the less counterable builds in small scale WvW.

Now image 3 or more roaming together. Any ways you guys should just stop complaining. And join the rest of us on the Staff Evade Daredevil overlords of small scale WvW. It’s fun to not only have 6 or more evades more then anyone else in the game, but to also have one of the highest burst in the game in a defensive mechanic.

Lulz complaining about Thieves from WvW in a PvP thread in the PvP subforum.

Completely different balance.

And it’s hilarious the tone of this thread OP states no counters to Evades, a player posts a fraction of the counters to Evades, the OP says those don’t count……..

And by the Logic of OP then no one should be able to do any damage while they are invuln, pseudo invuln or Blocking.

I find it funny the OP is ignoring all the points I brought up, Lulz.

So OP what gives you the Right to force yourself into other players time and force them to play with you and force them to cater to you? What gives you the right to exploit their spent time, gold and effort for their Tag?

Again

You didn’t buy their Commander Tag so you can’t dictate who they choose to group with, and There is no rule or requirement that states Commanders must group with everyone or that people have to be in Squads to play WvW.

Also you wanting to force people against their will to group with players they don’t want to especially because they put in more time/effort/gold is some of the highest form of bullying, and is very similar to certain crimes.

So show us where Anet states everyone with a Tag has to allow everyone into their Squads, or how bout point out where it’s a requirement for being in a squad to play WvW, or how about show where the players that put in their time money and effort need to cater to you and are obligated to provide you access to their groups and their play time and their effort/time/money.

Oh and the sole fact that Anet allows Commanders to choose who is or is not in their Squad shows that this is intended and how they want it to be, since they made it this way.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Sly.9518:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Kaiser.9873:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Dawdler.8521:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I don’t think they should allow private “invite only” squads in wvw. Granted that does penalize guilds who want to do GvG activities, but I think they should already have their own game mode at this point since its called “Guild Wars.” Either way, I don’t think wvw should allow private tags, or the ability to kick people who want to join it.

Then guilds will run without a squad, like we did before we even had squads. Your argument is pointless as you cant stop this. Anet have themselves drawn the line at hiding the tag when using the squad function, but they wont dictate how people play.

True you cant stop a group of people from grouping together and following one another in private parties, but at least this change to squads, would show that anet is taking a stance on it.

Currently it’s ridiculous when you get a squad that is 32/50 “TS” only and you have a ton of people not in squad or balanced parties following along, that aren’t allowed in. They become easy targets and help to rez enemy downed players because they have no party support.

Then go find a PUGmander that has no squad requirements. Squads go closed for a variety of reasons.
>Some commanders/guilds do not want to run 50/50, and blob around.
>Some commanders/guilds prefer to only fight “comped” rather than catch as catch can.
>There are many other reasons, but the point is that ANet cannot and will not try to force guilds/commanders to include everyone.

Well you would think anet would make a stance and implement this change, since so many commanders are out of control with this type of exclusionary behavior, specifically in wvw, and likewise in wvw where being a raid group really matters, as opposed to other game modes.

Also, I dunno how you know what anet will and won’t do, unless you work for them, and there is no harm in my suggestion anyways.

One more time why should players be forced into a group with you when they are the ones that spent Their time, Their gold and Their effort to acquire a tag to make Their own Squads?

It’s bullying to force yourself into people that don’t want to group with you, they have no obligation to provide you a squad, or to group with you.

And show us where Anet states that Commanders are obligated to allow anyone into Their Squads.

yah but this is WvW specifically, it is a joint server effort, where everyone can que in and is welcome to play. I feel that as a commander, you represent your server, and have to deal with the risk that you some players who join your squad you might not like, but its better then bullying and excluding. If you tag up you should have to lead everyone who wants to participate from your server in your squad, and not only welcome them but help and support them by including them. If a commander doesn’t like that then the commander shouldn’t tag up, I feel like anet should force this mechanic on commanders in wvw.

The burden of leading the server and the zerg should be placed on the commander if they so chose to tag up. It seems like a much smaller sacrifice that one person with a commander tag should have to put up with some people they might not want to include in there squad (and thus ruin 1 commanders experience), rather then one commander who excludes countless players who would like to participate in a wvw zerg (thus ruining tons of other players experience).

I also like how commanders act like being in squad is “no big deal, just follow along side the squad in the zerg.” The same argument can be shifted right back, if its no big deal to not be in the squad, then it should be no big deal to have players forced into your squad either.

Being in a squad is important as receiving group buffs are vital for survivability, which in turn also increases the survivabilty of the zerg as a whole to have everyone in squad. It also affects tagging mechanics which results in more loot and wxp gain from being in a squad

It doesn’t matter if they are on the same server or linked server,that doesn’t mean they are playing with you, it just means they happen to be on the same server playing when other players happen to be on and playing near them. you are trying to dictate who and how people play against their will, just because they put in more effort/time/gold into the game, for their enjoyment to play with who they want and how they want.

Again so you want to essentially hold someone hostage because they spent Their time, gold, and effort to acquire Their tag by forcing them to party with people they choose not to, because they just so happen to be playing on the same map as you?

And show me where Anet states that anyone with a Tag is obligated to be forced into a party with people they don’t want to group with.

Show me where it’s a mandated by Anet / the game that if someone buys a tag and uses it in WvW that they have to be forced to allow anyone into a squad.

Or how about show me where Anet says that everyone in WvW will be grouped together in squads under tags Without the Commanders say.

Show us where being in a Squad is mandatory to play WvW.

Oh wait you can’t…….. because none of that exists……..

Again you want to force people against their will to do something that they would not want to using something they put Their time, money and effort into.

Hmmm I wonder what that sounds like.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Kaiser.9873:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Dawdler.8521:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I don’t think they should allow private “invite only” squads in wvw. Granted that does penalize guilds who want to do GvG activities, but I think they should already have their own game mode at this point since its called “Guild Wars.” Either way, I don’t think wvw should allow private tags, or the ability to kick people who want to join it.

Then guilds will run without a squad, like we did before we even had squads. Your argument is pointless as you cant stop this. Anet have themselves drawn the line at hiding the tag when using the squad function, but they wont dictate how people play.

True you cant stop a group of people from grouping together and following one another in private parties, but at least this change to squads, would show that anet is taking a stance on it.

Currently it’s ridiculous when you get a squad that is 32/50 “TS” only and you have a ton of people not in squad or balanced parties following along, that aren’t allowed in. They become easy targets and help to rez enemy downed players because they have no party support.

Then go find a PUGmander that has no squad requirements. Squads go closed for a variety of reasons.
>Some commanders/guilds do not want to run 50/50, and blob around.
>Some commanders/guilds prefer to only fight “comped” rather than catch as catch can.
>There are many other reasons, but the point is that ANet cannot and will not try to force guilds/commanders to include everyone.

Well you would think anet would make a stance and implement this change, since so many commanders are out of control with this type of exclusionary behavior, specifically in wvw, and likewise in wvw where being a raid group really matters, as opposed to other game modes.

Also, I dunno how you know what anet will and won’t do, unless you work for them, and there is no harm in my suggestion anyways.

One more time why should players be forced into a group with you when they are the ones that spent Their time, Their gold and Their effort to acquire a tag to make Their own Squads?

It’s bullying to force yourself into people that don’t want to group with you, they have no obligation to provide you a squad, or to group with you.

And show us where Anet states that Commanders are obligated to allow anyone into Their Squads.

@OP,

You are wanting to force players to play with you, which is wrong, especially when those Players, Spent Their time, Their gold, to make Their Squads, to play with who They want with Their earned Commander Tag.

And just FYI just because you are near them and on the same map doesn’t mean you are playing with them that just means you are playing near them.

Your suggestion to allow yourself to force others to have to play with you when they don’t want to is more bullying than them not allowing you into Their squad which They earned.

So if you always want to be in a squad whenever you are on then buy a Commander Tag.

Oh and link to where Anet said that players hat but Commander Tags have to allow everyone in Their squad, or where players can force others to play with them.

Shaogin.2679:

Keyba.9570:

but information that has nothing to do with you..

Maybe I can simplify this whole thing for you:

Group A – “We know for sure these players cheated and deserve to be punished and we have proof!”

Group B – “What proof?”

Group A – “How dare you ask for my proof you troll!”

While Group A’s allegations may be true, the manner they are going about everything is all wrong. Group B would never have asked about this proof if a) The players in question weren’t being shamed on public forums and b) Group A didn’t bring up the proof in the first place and then never present said proof while continuing to shame the players in question.

Very eloquently put!

Keyba.9570:

I get that (about the proof) but no one should self righteously demand it if they aren’t the proper authorities (sly). I would like to see it as well, but you don’t see me on a proof witch hunt.

You clearly don’t know what a which hunt is or means.

It’s not a request for further information or proof that’s for sure.

And again unlike you I’m not accusing anyone of cheating without proof, or did you forget that you said this ?

@kdaddy my point is I can’t hire Jon Jones to beat Daniel cormier so I can be called the champion

To the players points we wouldn’t mind ABJ winning and being called the champion, but instead they won so 5 players who won’t out in the time to get better could be called champions.

So who is the one witchhunting again?

Lulz

babazhook.6805:

Lets see you keep bringing things liek regn and portection and bulwark gyro into the equation as if the like did not exist elsewhere.

Just some of the engineer traits.

Regen and healing. They are not for power only. They regen health lost to conditions as well. Purge Gyro, removes conditions so as to prevent damage just as Bulward Gyro does fgor power. transmute converts boons to conditions. inversion enzyme converts conditions to boons. Alcemical tinctures removes conditions. Mecha legs decreases condtion durations. Adaptive armor decreases condition damage 20 percent.

Why no mention of these when you bring in bulwark gyro?

babazhook.6805:

Lets see you keep bringing things liek regn and portection and bulwark gyro into the equation as if the like did not exist elsewhere.

Just some of the engineer traits.

Regen and healing. They are not for power only. They regen health lost to conditions as well. Purge Gyro, removes conditions so as to prevent damage just as Bulward Gyro does fgor power. transmute converts boons to conditions. inversion enzyme converts conditions to boons. Alcemical tinctures removes conditions. Mecha legs decreases condtion durations. Adaptive armor decreases condition damage 20 percent.

Why no mention of these when you bring in bulwark gyro?

Already did quite a few posts back, and Condis to Boons is a cleanse lulz which I already mentioned lulz, you just failed to read(quite a recurring event here) , as shown a couple posts back. Lulz

And cute your trying to use my argument against me go refer to my previous posts about why do you act like every non Condi damage mitigation in game doesn’t exist( there are far more and they all stack btws) Lulz

And again Why does Power have to make Tons of sacrifices to survivability to do comparable Damage? Condi doesn’t have to make any to maximize damage. Lulz prolly gonna attempt to evade this question yet again.

Oh nooooo only one Condi damage mitigation trait on a single, that actually mitigates a small percentage of damage compared to all the power damage mitigation traits noooooooo lulz

again

Lulz

Keyba.9570:

So Anet has the proof, and are conducting investigations. But honestly if Anet, the game creators and ultimate deciders have the proof why do you need it

Do they? They haven’t made a statement on this having proof this OP was posted before the AT happened, so before any of the accused happened.

A certain someone claims he has proof but*l ooks around * yep nowhere.

And people look above claiming I am naming and shaming people lulz not once but a Certain someone and others -* look above * have been naming and shaming with out any proof of their accusations. Hell that certain someone coerced a person in this thread (see Screenshot posted by one of the accused) to make a post naming and shaming the accused.

So where has Anet stated that the accused Were found guilty? And where is the proof?
Oh right none of that has happened yet.

But hey I’m not the one on a witch hunt or naming and shaming others, I’m just asking reasonable questions and not making accusations or naming and shaming but hey, someone’s has to be level headed and reasonable and not acting like a crying child because I lost a video game.

Hey MailMail what are so far baseless and unconfirmed accusations lacking proof and calling for the accused to be permanently banned without having Anet make any final decisions? Oh yeah a witch hunt.

And this OP wa s made before the AT concluded so again who was given dishonor? I see no mention of anyone by Anet. Oh yeah forgot It like the Salem witch trials here.

Oh yeah

Almost forgot

LULZ.

babazhook.6805:

Sly.9518:

babazhook.6805:

Sly.9518:

babazhook.6805:

anduriell.6280:

babazhook.6805:

Once again you pretend cleanses do not exist.

snip

Snip

Oh nooooo one class can cleanse semi effectively, that’s called the exception not the rule lulz.

also you may need to revisit the post you quoted me in lulz saying never mentioned cleanses as if they don’t exist I made it easy to see the part you omitted to acknowledge. Lulz

And one more time show me a Full Soldiers War, Mesmer, Necro due the same amount of Burst and sustained Damage as a Full Dire War, Mesmer, Or Necro. Lulz

And that build would die instantly to any power build easily since it is solely designed Cleansing Condis. And you have to use 3 stats to output comparable damage vs Condis only using 1 lulz.

It now up to TWO classes as i have already linked my warrior who is also reistant to conditions being able to apply resistance at will.

I couold not care less about “having to trait 3 stats” as that Thief build will best virtsually every condition build he meets.

You can also trait a Necormancer to be highly resistant to Conditions using Condition transfers, minions and the trait Neromantic Corrution> this traits allows each minion to peel one condition off you every 10 seconds. The more minions the more cleansing.

I do not play other builds as much but have met in WvW mesmers that were able to be very resistant to conditions. I will let them speak to how this done.

It not just ONE class.

Who cares if it can best any Condi build since you kitten it from dealing with any power builds lulz.

Still avoiding he questions I put to you.

Show that power is just as effective as Condi using Full Soldiers vs Full Dire prove that it can deal the same Burst damage and sustained damage. It’s the only fair measurement since they have the exact same stat pool.

And you act like Protection, Regen, Weakness , Frost Aura, Bulwark Gyro, Armor, Rite of the Great Dwarf, Invulns, and Pseudo invulns don’t exist. Lulz

So again show that the same stats are equally effective in Burst and sustained damage.

Or how about why one stats say doesn’t have to give any sacrifices defenses to reach maximum damage when another stat does to do comparable damage?

And you’re still avoiding most of my iPhone 5s answered and remodeled every single one you try to make it quite funny to be honest.

And did you go back and read those two paragraphs I wrote about consequences that I clearly Didn’t write that you totally didn’t directly quote lulz.

Here’s a TL;DR to assist with a trend I noticed here

Prove power is just as effective as Condi using full Soldiers and Dire on the same class

Why does 1 get to do max damage without sacrificing Any Survivability but the other need 3 offensive stats to do comparable damage

And building solely to cleanse Condis and nothing else just makes for a highly ineffective build in every situation except against Condi. Since you know we are talking about actual effective builds here

And again there’s more source that make Power damage negligible vs Condi damage yet Condi doesn’t have any Passive damage mitigations only active.

Last but not least
Lulz

I never stated a soldiers build was just as effective as a condition build in dire. Please point to where i made that statement.

there NOTHING I have to prove.

I have linked to my warrior build with 26k health and ~3k armor. he is very effective against both Power and condition builds. I have given his numbers several times over.

Go and play the build. I should not have to hold your hand and lead you along.

One of the main arguments is why does one build have to sacrifice almost every defensive stat and use 3 offensive stats to make comparable damage while one can Max both Damage and Defense.

And yeah cherry pick the war lulz the class with the Highest Base Armor and highest Base HP lulz of course that class can take less defensive stats than any other. Now look at a Full Dire Warrior let’s see here 29.5k HP 3576 Armor 2084 Condi Damage maxed Defenses and Damage, the power build you tote pales in efficiency. And without sacrificing anything I gained 4.5k hp and 500 armor while maxing out Condi damage. Zero sacrifices. While your build has to sacrifice crit chance and crit damage as well as power, still the overall worse and my builder which makes No sacrifice

And how about any of my other points or are you trying to evade those like a D/D DB spam Thief?

This is too easy, watch out the bias is still showing.

babazhook.6805:

Sly.9518:

babazhook.6805:

anduriell.6280:

babazhook.6805:

Once again you pretend cleanses do not exist.

once again you are pretending cleanses are effective agaisnt the condi spam and the lag doesn’t exists. Kindly stop defending something all the community is telling you here and in reddit is utterly broken.

Luckily balance patch is coming soon and i hope Anet has taken seriously the condi problem and addressed it properly. Hopefully nerfing the dps they can output overtime and the broken stat sets.

Lag is immaterial. if I get lag I can just as easily die to a power attack i did not dodge. You are really stretching here.

This build is a thief build and has plenty of condition cleanses. Used properly virtually all condition builds are neutralized.

It has plenty of conditions cleanses, two on the elite, three on SOA , PR cleaning 4 every 16 seconds, EA cleansing on dodge UC cleansing on dodge Withdraw cleansing up to 6 every 14.5 seconds. RFI up to two and haste another. On staff Generoisty and Purity both cleanse.

He easily runs at 20 plus stacks might which lasts him through a good deal of time while in staff. Running close to 3k steady power with 200 percent crit rate deals plenty of damage. Spam this guys vaults evades against a DB thiefs attacks and you will win everytime as YOUR evades clean as fast as he can apply. Staff aginst mesmers is very effective and again the volume of cleanses added to the outright dodges neutralizes a great chunk of their damage.

Contrary to the claims of some , due to the fact the thief has so many targetted cleanses , you are not “just clearing cover conditions”. if you cleanse in proper order cover conditions can be stripped away via UC, Withdraw and RFI.

While in staff, blinds and evades allow a good deal of outright avoidance of conditions even as your attacks are cleansing 2 every 10 seconds.

This “you can not trait to clear anough conditions” does not wash with me.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaWl0MhenYxTwwJw/ELUFlXGkClwc139lfXPFAHAA-T1SEQBLR5BAOBAaRJIcOEANUJG82fgCHBg8oHofq/cwHAQ70EQKgAHaB-w

Oh nooooo one class can cleanse semi effectively, that’s called the exception not the rule lulz.

also you may need to revisit the post you quoted me in lulz saying never mentioned cleanses as if they don’t exist I made it easy to see the part you omitted to acknowledge. Lulz

And one more time show me a Full Soldiers War, Mesmer, Necro due the same amount of Burst and sustained Damage as a Full Dire War, Mesmer, Or Necro. Lulz

And that build would die instantly to any power build easily since it is solely designed Cleansing Condis. And you have to use 3 stats to output comparable damage vs Condis only using 1 lulz.

It now up to TWO classes as i have already linked my warrior who is also reistant to conditions being able to apply resistance at will.

I couold not care less about “having to trait 3 stats” as that Thief build will best virtsually every condition build he meets.

You can also trait a Necormancer to be highly resistant to Conditions using Condition transfers, minions and the trait Neromantic Corrution> this traits allows each minion to peel one condition off you every 10 seconds. The more minions the more cleansing.

I do not play other builds as much but have met in WvW mesmers that were able to be very resistant to conditions. I will let them speak to how this done.

It not just ONE class.

Who cares if it can best any Condi build since you kitten it from dealing with any power builds lulz.

Still avoiding he questions I put to you.

Show that power is just as effective as Condi using Full Soldiers vs Full Dire prove that it can deal the same Burst damage and sustained damage. It’s the only fair measurement since they have the exact same stat pool.

And you act like Protection, Regen, Weakness , Frost Aura, Bulwark Gyro, Armor, Rite of the Great Dwarf, Invulns, and Pseudo invulns don’t exist. Lulz

So again show that the same stats are equally effective in Burst and sustained damage.

Or how about why one stats say doesn’t have to give any sacrifices defenses to reach maximum damage when another stat does to do comparable damage?

And you’re still avoiding most of my iPhone 5s answered and remodeled every single one you try to make it quite funny to be honest.

And did you go back and read those two paragraphs I wrote about consequences that I clearly Didn’t write that you totally didn’t directly quote lulz.

Here’s a TL;DR to assist with a trend I noticed here

Prove power is just as effective as Condi using full Soldiers and Dire on the same class

Why does 1 get to do max damage without sacrificing Any Survivability but the other need 3 offensive stats to do comparable damage

And building solely to cleanse Condis and nothing else just makes for a highly ineffective build in every situation except against Condi. Since you know we are talking about actual effective builds here

And again there’s more source that make Power damage negligible vs Condi damage yet Condi doesn’t have any Passive damage mitigations only active.

Last but not least
Lulz

babazhook.6805:

anduriell.6280:

babazhook.6805:

Once again you pretend cleanses do not exist.

once again you are pretending cleanses are effective agaisnt the condi spam and the lag doesn’t exists. Kindly stop defending something all the community is telling you here and in reddit is utterly broken.

Luckily balance patch is coming soon and i hope Anet has taken seriously the condi problem and addressed it properly. Hopefully nerfing the dps they can output overtime and the broken stat sets.

Lag is immaterial. if I get lag I can just as easily die to a power attack i did not dodge. You are really stretching here.

This build is a thief build and has plenty of condition cleanses. Used properly virtually all condition builds are neutralized.

It has plenty of conditions cleanses, two on the elite, three on SOA , PR cleaning 4 every 16 seconds, EA cleansing on dodge UC cleansing on dodge Withdraw cleansing up to 6 every 14.5 seconds. RFI up to two and haste another. On staff Generoisty and Purity both cleanse.

He easily runs at 20 plus stacks might which lasts him through a good deal of time while in staff. Running close to 3k steady power with 200 percent crit rate deals plenty of damage. Spam this guys vaults evades against a DB thiefs attacks and you will win everytime as YOUR evades clean as fast as he can apply. Staff aginst mesmers is very effective and again the volume of cleanses added to the outright dodges neutralizes a great chunk of their damage.

Contrary to the claims of some , due to the fact the thief has so many targetted cleanses , you are not “just clearing cover conditions”. if you cleanse in proper order cover conditions can be stripped away via UC, Withdraw and RFI.

While in staff, blinds and evades allow a good deal of outright avoidance of conditions even as your attacks are cleansing 2 every 10 seconds.

This “you can not trait to clear anough conditions” does not wash with me.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaWl0MhenYxTwwJw/ELUFlXGkClwc139lfXPFAHAA-T1SEQBLR5BAOBAaRJIcOEANUJG82fgCHBg8oHofq/cwHAQ70EQKgAHaB-w

Oh nooooo one class can cleanse semi effectively, that’s called the exception not the rule lulz.

also you may need to revisit the post you quoted me in lulz saying never mentioned cleanses as if they don’t exist I made it easy to see the part you omitted to acknowledge. Lulz

And one more time show me a Full Soldiers War, Mesmer, Necro due the same amount of Burst and sustained Damage as a Full Dire War, Mesmer, Or Necro. Lulz

And that build would die instantly to any power build easily since it is solely designed Cleansing Condis. And you have to use 3 stats to output comparable damage vs Condis only using 1 lulz.

babazhook.6805:

Sly.9518:

babazhook.6805:

Turk.5460:

Because given scaling amounts for someone who is condition geared, a single condition application, not stack, but single application, does far more damage than a single hit from 90% of a power based build’s attack. And even the small amount of power based attacks (warrior burst abilities, backstabs, true shot, you name it) cannot match some single application condition abilites.

For example: my condi Warrior’s LB5 does over 21,000 bleeding. Unlike your 20k gunflame, my example is not under extreme circumstances. 1 ability. Granted it takes 17 seconds, sure, but that is what this whole thread is about – professions that have insane defenses can apply conditions and quickly use up their opponents cleanses, then kite/evade/stealth or just generally sustain.

It takes seventeen seconds to ramp up to that damage. in 1.5 seconds I get over 10k off a single unload.

I can switch from p/p to my off hand set and do 6k damage off a single shadowshot and followup with an AA chain that takes around a second that will do more damage yet.

Your ramp up to that 17 seconds assumes the enemy does NOTHING in response. They are perfectly capable of attacking and reacting before that amounf of bleed applied. Indded only one skill on LB applies that bleed and it on a ICD of 25 seconds. It has an activation time of 3/4s yet somehow gunflame can be avoided and Lb5 can not? They can not cleanse it before its duration runs out if it IS applied? Just who the heck are you fighting that can not cleanse 6 stacks of bleeds withing 17 seconds.

Added to that once you are in a zerg, those conditions can be cleansed on an ongoing basis much more readily then the power damage can.

Were Condition damage as easy to apply and get to the numbers you suggest in real game terms, every build in PvP and every build in WvW would be condition.

You are failing to realize that is only one Condi able to ramp up damage yet it is hardly ever the case of only one damaging condi and no cover Condis are on a target. Sorry but the bias is showing.

And again why does Power have to invest in full offensive stats to do comparable damage? Why is Power the only one with passive mitigation stats applied from the get go, why does Power have more mitigation sources that can effectively reduce damage to negligible amounts if not 0? Why is ok for Builds to be able to make Power builds useless through heals and passive Defensive stats and affect but not have the same situation for Condi?

Power does MORE damage and people do not HAVE to invest in more stats. They do because it allows them to do MORE damage.

if Ferocity and crits allowed Conditions to do more damage people would invest in those as they already to with Sinsiter type necroes.

Again I have given my link to a power warrior with ~3k armor and 26k health. He does plenty of damage and has plenty of sustain.

As to your claim it only ONE condition that ramps up that damage what has that to do with anything? That condition can easily be cleansed before it does that much damage meaning covers are needed. On the other hand I need no “cover conditions” to get 10k plus damage of an unload in 1.5 seconds. The damage is DONE. There no chance to prevent its full damage once it done This also only ONE attack.

A clense IS a mitigation measure so do not pretend it not. We have always had cleanses. TIME is also a mitigation measure. You have more time to deal with the damage applied.

As to heals, heals work just as well to recover from condition damage. I do not know where you get the idea they only work for power damage.

Power and Condi do comparable Burst damage now a pure glass cannon designed for 1 large attack every 30 secs can exceed that for power but that is absolutely no defenses.

The disparity is to get comparable damage power builds need 3 stats vs Condis 1.

Go ahead compare damage from a Full Soldiers Warrior or Necro or Thief or Mesmer to a Full Dire Warrior or Necro or Thief or Mesmer. Go ahead the Condi will Surpass the Power build in Burst Damage and sustained damage.

Inb4 that’s not a fair comparison/that doesn’t count/((insert lame excuse here))

Why not? Hey provide the exact same stats just swap Power for Condi. It’s the exact same everything except Condi is a lot more powerful stat then Power since Power has to rely on 2 additional Stats to do comparable damage so they have to give up all the defensive stats.

And again There is more damage mitigation in game one every single class than there is for Condi so.

And Cover Condies stop effective Cleansing from happening and with the amount of Condi spam and cover Condi spam the main damaging Condies aren’t cleansed as easily as you try make it seem due to the cleansing mechanic, and even if you do get the damaging Condies off they will be reapplied again and no more cleanse lulz.

And why is it allowed for classes/builds to be able to Completely make power damage useless through heals? You make perfectly clear that it’s fine that Condies can’t be completely cleanses and should be able to Burst through cleanses and kill the defender, but whenever I ask this question to fail to address it.

Once again the bias is showing.

Edited s Spelling error and Bolded the Condi statements for a certain player

Question has there been any actual definitive proof of this incident? Since as of yet none has been provided and if no one has any definitive proof how can you ban players from a tournament on grounds of them cheating?

Or is solely based on baseless accusations of a certain player that is upset thy lost akittennce they claim (key word here) to have proof but refuse to divulge it?

babazhook.6805:

Turk.5460:

Because given scaling amounts for someone who is condition geared, a single condition application, not stack, but single application, does far more damage than a single hit from 90% of a power based build’s attack. And even the small amount of power based attacks (warrior burst abilities, backstabs, true shot, you name it) cannot match some single application condition abilites.

For example: my condi Warrior’s LB5 does over 21,000 bleeding. Unlike your 20k gunflame, my example is not under extreme circumstances. 1 ability. Granted it takes 17 seconds, sure, but that is what this whole thread is about – professions that have insane defenses can apply conditions and quickly use up their opponents cleanses, then kite/evade/stealth or just generally sustain.

It takes seventeen seconds to ramp up to that damage. in 1.5 seconds I get over 10k off a single unload.

I can switch from p/p to my off hand set and do 6k damage off a single shadowshot and followup with an AA chain that takes around a second that will do more damage yet.

Your ramp up to that 17 seconds assumes the enemy does NOTHING in response. They are perfectly capable of attacking and reacting before that amounf of bleed applied. Indded only one skill on LB applies that bleed and it on a ICD of 25 seconds. It has an activation time of 3/4s yet somehow gunflame can be avoided and Lb5 can not? They can not cleanse it before its duration runs out if it IS applied? Just who the heck are you fighting that can not cleanse 6 stacks of bleeds withing 17 seconds.

Added to that once you are in a zerg, those conditions can be cleansed on an ongoing basis much more readily then the power damage can.

Were Condition damage as easy to apply and get to the numbers you suggest in real game terms, every build in PvP and every build in WvW would be condition.

You are failing to realize that is only one Condi able to ramp up damage yet it is hardly ever the case of only one damaging condi and no cover Condis are on a target. Sorry but the bias is showing.

And again why does Power have to invest in full offensive stats to do comparable damage? Why is Power the only one with passive mitigation stats applied from the get go, why does Power have more mitigation sources that can effectively reduce damage to negligible amounts if not 0? Why is ok for Builds to be able to make Power builds useless through heals and passive Defensive stats and affect but not have the same situation for Condi?

babazhook.6805:

Turk.5460:

babazhook.6805:

Turk.5460:

babazhook.6805:

This is related to very specific builds and should be addressed on an individual basis. A single gun flame can hit for close to 20k. A maul from a ranger can do you in instantly. Are those ok while 10 stacks bleed not?

You’re comparing an extreme situation to a normal situation. To achieve those hits, those characters can be sneezed on and be double-downed. You cannot even begin to justify comparing counterplay here.

Please define the NORMAL situations where these condition apps applied. If you come back with only one class that can do it, then it a fail.

My warrior is in ~3k armor and has over 26k health. He a power warrior that can chrun out plenty of damage . He does not die to a sneeze.

Condi necros, mesmers, thieves and revenants can all dish out those condi numbers faster than any profession other than support ele can cleanse. They can also do so while having high amounts of toughness and vitality.

No, your 26k hp warrior does not do 10k headbutts – at least not in a practical situation. That would require 700 points allocated to vitality. What are you in, full Valkyrie gear? If so, your opinion no longer means anything since that’s not even close to gear that an experienced warrior would run, for painfully obvious reasons.

They HAVE to be able to dish out conditions faster then another can cleanse or the condition build will be useless. Why do people persist in the inane argument that you have to keep up to condition applications with cleanses?

You do NOT HAVE to cleanse them all anymore then you have to avoid all damage from a power build.

I have givn the link to my warrior. Try it. When those "experienced " warriors complain they can not survive against condition builds, while mine does, I do not think they all that experienced.

So why is it ok for some Meta builds to be able to completely negate Power damage with little to no risk and easily so? Those same builds aren’t able to do that against Condis though.

And cleansing isn’t reliable on the majority of classes due to the priority system in place, more often then not it’s a useless Condi that is cleanses and not any of the real threats, and there is no passive defense to condi damage everything is active defense unlike power.

And one more time Condi builds can build as Tanky as they want without sacrificing any damage all the while being capable of causing Burst damage and downing players in a matter of seconds, while to achieve the same damage Power has to go almost pure glass.

So one more time why the double standard? (<—- this is rhetorical, I already know why, it’s quite obvious)

will de grijze jager.6594:

Dear anet nurf Impacting Disruption 2 k each hit. that wouldn’t be that bad but a thief can spam interrups 5 times in a row with pistal 4.

the most classes has 1 interrup skill on a cd of atleast 20 seconds. The game has already to manny daze, interrupts and so on that stability is not really the thing that counters it.

please balance the game and remove all those interrupts stuns and so on.

Don’t spam skills lulz, bring stability, use projectile hate, pop an invulns if already interrupted- you have 3 secs to react to IP, LoS, Dodge to interrupt your cast so the Thief doesn’t better than taking 2k damage, oh yeah don’t spam skills.

Hell its already was nerfed two patches ago. Lulz

Oh and 5 times in a row? Math determines that’s a lie with Meta build 15/4=3. Lulz

If a Thief spams Headshot they can’t really do much else and are a free kill cause no Initiative.

Over exaggeration doesn’t help anyone.

And if you are worried about 2k hits spammed I wonder how you deal with any auto attack ingame.