Guild Wars 2

Stx.4857:

I, and many many others see a problem. Making him a raid instance would solve a lot of the issues players have with him. Your solution is for me to just not play the game? You should be a dev!

And by making this instanced, you allow players to dictate who gets to join. That opens the door to higher tier trolling. “You want in? Pay 10 Gold to enter my raid group.” “You broke up with my sister? Shunned for life from my groups.”

With Open World, yes you allow any type of player with any level of skill in. The key part here is that they’re all allowed to participate, without anyone forcing them otherwise.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Smooth Penguin.5294

Living World is content made for anyone to enjoy.

And Tequatl currently isn’t enjoyable for a large portion of the playerbase due to a host of issues ranging from overflows to trolls, timers and the always popular gear treadmill. All this bad design compounds and critically enrages the community.

You can’t bring certain builds since condition damage is useless because technical limitations, you’ve got to be geared properly, you probably should have a VoIP server ready unless somebody else is willing to provide and so on and on.

Whether you enjoy this event or not it’s undeniable that it has irrevocably damaged this community. Continuing to produce events like this without addressing all the aforementioned issues would be the absolute height of foolishness.

You can’t program mechanics into a game that prevents bad human nature from ruining it. If someone refuses to play correctly on a Turret, and you find he’s doing it on purpose, report him. Just remember that the Devs said they need solid proof the person is griefing, rather than just being someone who really doesn’t understand what to do.

Also, Overflows exists because servers have a maximum capacity. This is actually a great game design, rather than having a queue timer to get into a map you want. (note – WvW is a different beast)

As for your idea of bad game design based on having the proper gear, are you saying that everyone should have only one type of weapon and armor set? That by removing any type of progression, you fix all these problems?

And finally, Condition Necros are still useful in helping overall. There’s more than a Champion Dragon to fight in this event.

Stx.4857:

1) RNG comes from randomly getting an organized server, or a crappy overflow/server.
2) But if you are not apart of a large guild, then it is RNG because finding one of those organized groups, or a server capable of it, is luck based.
3) All players need to perform basic roles. Turrets are BY FAR the most important per player.
4) Failing should reward us with something, because this game is all about time investment. Even a little Karma would be great.
5) That is your opinion. I enjoy a challenge, I don’t enjoy relying on hundreds of other players to be as prepared as I am, or be as good at jumping over waves as me.
6) Living World content isn’t for everyone? Since when? Surely that is not their intention.

1) RNG doesn’t apply. People organizing and planning strategy does. If you need help finding a group or guild to help, the forums have some wonderful people trying to organize the masses.
2) See #1
3) True, Turrets are important, so is defending them, and killing tentacles, etc.
4) You are rewarded with minor chests. True rewards are for winning.
5) Well, different content appeals to different people. I’m sorry you don’t like Teq.
6) Living World is content made for anyone to enjoy. THAT is Anet’s intention. But it’s also optional. None of my guildies who WvW 24/7 are being forced to do any of the newer content. Yet they’re still having fun in this game.

Seveleniumus.5973:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If you didn’t contribute to the kill, then you can’t claim you killed him. Same for AFKers. If a player refuses to learn how to play and get better, they suffer in the long run. Then these players won’t be able to do other content without having to rely on people to carry them. If it’s fun for that player to be bad and be carried, to each his own.

You can’t prevent people from piggybacking into this Elite Content, just as you shouldn’t prevent these same people from participating in Elite Content because they’re bad.

If it’s so elite, why did they complete it on first day?
What’s difficult about turning on your TS and standing under commander?
It’s not the matter of difficulty, you either have enough people or you don’t. If you have enough people you still may fail few times, but you will complete it soon enough. If you don’t have enough people, it won’t matter how “elite” you are.

Tequatl fight basically goes like this:
Step 1: stand in one place, spam skills
Step 2: run to defend the laser
Step 3: run back
Step 4: go back to step 1

which part of it is difficult?
Now I’m not necessarily saying that it’s not fun, but it doesn’t really seem that complicated to me…

Let me answer your questions:

1) Only one server, out of all servers, was able to beat Teq on the first day. Don’t see how you think this makes the content easy since it was beaten.
2) BlackGate is full of really really REALLY good players. Really.
3) Having a map full of people does not guarantee a win. See point #1.
4) If you want to generalize the content in those terms, I could say that beating Tequatl requires you to turn on your computer, log in, play, and win. There’s more to winning than your four steps, and I know you understand it.

Serkz.3140:

I’m from BG. BG ppl are awesome, just move there.

Whoa there. We’re debating Teq, not recruiting for the upcoming league play in Season 1. hehe /wink

PAX.4160:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’ve said this over and over, there are different types of gamers. Casuals and Hardcore. Skilled and Unskilled. Easy Mode and Hard Mode. Anet has content in this game for all types. If you can’t handle hard content, stick to easier ones. I think it’s more damaging for players to come in and demand that content made for one type of player, be nerfed so another type can enjoy it.

This strikes me as a false dichotomy. I assume that Anet has to look at the gradient of skill levels and commitment shown by players, then decide what percentage of those players they will design content to please. The inherent assumption that there are two groups who divide cleanly and that decision for design should be made to please one or the other may unintentionally (or intentionally?) increase the community division further.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Tequatl is for the Elites because it requires more than just randomly pressing “1” with an random, unorganized mob.

This portion is rude and condescending. It doesn’t help your case. Many players with low hours played/week research builds, acquire good gear, dodge, try to follow strategy, and even occasionally kite. Often they play in small groups or small guilds. I know several people of this exact type. The strawman nature of your argument is what gives it both offensive qualities.

That said, I’m not sure if I want Teq to be changed. It just seems like a paradigm shift for GW2 to include raid-level content in the open world, especially when that same content was easy loot for the majority of players only one week prior. It makes sense that people are frustrated. It makes sense that players who want harder content are pleased.

In general though, if content is only for 5-10% of the playerbase, it should be about 5-10% of what gets released and promoted. It should not be primary headline content, nor should it be the overall direction of the game. The less committed/skilled playerbase will not catch up. They will ignore the content and/or leave the game.

1) Anet has to design content that appeals to different types of players. If they made all Queensdale easy content for the whole game, they’ll lose players. If they made Teq v2.0 for the whole game, they’ll lose players. But if they offer a little bit of this, and a little bit of that, people can find something they enjoy, wherever it is in the skill level spectrum.

2) Teq is Elite level. You can’t just spam “1” to win. You need to have people to coordinate for different parts of the challenge. Defense. Offensive. ADD hunters. But that said, because this is Open World content as well, anyone is free to join, regardless of skill level.

3) You are correct that a portion of the player base is mad, while another is happy. This is because we all have different views of what “fun” is. That goes back to my point #1.

4) One last thing. This content is headlined, but it’s also optional. If the Teq fight isn’t your thing, it’s not the end of the world. I have guidies who ignored this, and stayed in WvW. Since this is also permanent, you can go back whenever to give it a try.

Seveleniumus.5973:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Seveleniumus.5973:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Seveleniumus.5973:

lol, I love how most of you just read the topic and respond whatever.
I’m just saying that beating Tequatl doesn’t make you a better player or “elite” like many claim. I beat it today with my guild and wasn’t even downed once, does that make me a better player? No, I just turned on TS and followed commander tags, there’s nothing difficult about it and there isn’t any kind of special skill involved. The most difficult part was actually getting into the right overflow. It is a fun encounter to do, when you have ability to organize a lot of people, but it is not an “ozmg elite content.”

So to you, understanding mechanics and following orders to beat hard content, doesn’t make it hard anymore? Well…. yeah, that’s the whole purpose of learning. Clock Tower was hard, until I knew what to do. It’s still a challenge.

PS – It’s still Elite Content.

So if random noob will get into winning overflow and will “beat” Tequatl by standing in the corner and shooting at fingers, he will transform into elite?

There’s no “I” in “TEAM”.

Exactly, that’s why beating Tequatl doesn’t make you a better player.

If you didn’t contribute to the kill, then you can’t claim you killed him. Same for AFKers. If a player refuses to learn how to play and get better, they suffer in the long run. Then these players won’t be able to do other content without having to rely on people to carry them. If it’s fun for that player to be bad and be carried, to each his own.

You can’t prevent people from piggybacking into this Elite Content, just as you shouldn’t prevent these same people from participating in Elite Content because they’re bad.

Behellagh.1468:

Zero. It’s my passive aggressive approach to protesting NCSOFT for it’s sudden closure of City of Heroes, a game I spent well over a $1000 on over the years. So I will buy their game (on sale even) but resist giving them any more money because if they really wanted my money they would have kept the doors open over there.

Plus other than some account items like bank and character slots, there isn’t anything that screams BUY ME! at the Gem Store.

inb4 Gem Store Precursors.

haviz.1340:

How’s that even remotely relevant to what I said?

You said:

haviz.1340:

There are people who don’t understand simple concepts of this world. We call them differently but most often it starts with ‘c’.

I explained why there are people who don’t understand the concepts. It’s because there are those who are new and need to learn new things.

Seveleniumus.5973:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Seveleniumus.5973:

lol, I love how most of you just read the topic and respond whatever.
I’m just saying that beating Tequatl doesn’t make you a better player or “elite” like many claim. I beat it today with my guild and wasn’t even downed once, does that make me a better player? No, I just turned on TS and followed commander tags, there’s nothing difficult about it and there isn’t any kind of special skill involved. The most difficult part was actually getting into the right overflow. It is a fun encounter to do, when you have ability to organize a lot of people, but it is not an “ozmg elite content.”

So to you, understanding mechanics and following orders to beat hard content, doesn’t make it hard anymore? Well…. yeah, that’s the whole purpose of learning. Clock Tower was hard, until I knew what to do. It’s still a challenge.

PS – It’s still Elite Content.

So if random noob will get into winning overflow and will “beat” Tequatl by standing in the corner and shooting at fingers, he will transform into elite?

There’s no “I” in “TEAM”.

neon.4863:

There’s a certain FYGM mentality in saying “I don’t see why you’re complaining, my experience has been great.”

That’s wonderful your experience has been great, that you’ve met more people, that it brought your community together.

It’s a jerk move to rub it in the face of everyone else who can’t do it and say it’s because their community just isn’t good enough.

That said, Tequatl is open world content. Open world content should be for everyone, not “the elite”. There are instances and endgame content for the elite. This “elite” would lose exactly nothing if Tequatl was an 80 man raid instance. People would still group together to try and take it down, in particular since there are very few guilds that can actually muster that many people online and organized simultaneously.

And OK, even if not all open world content needs to not be elite – you do realize Tequatl is in a level 60 or so area? Where, reasonably, one would expect people who are level 60 or so to be? As opposed to people who are 80, fully geared, and used to endgame? Sure, level 60 or so exotics exist – does the average player bother with full sets, or just tunnel vision to 80 when it actually matters?

Putting a level 80 elite event in Cursed Shore is one thing. That’s a level 80 area. It’s an endgame area by default. Sure, it’s open world, but it also, by design, assumes you are at least level 80. Tequatl is more ‘elite’ than any endgame content the game has to offer, yet it somehow is… not in an endgame area? If you want this type of boss, why not Jormag, who is in an endgame area (and has the crappiest reward out of all word bosses)?

I can understand defending this type of boss mechanics. Hell, I’m sure I’d have fun in the fight if my server had been able to coordinate. I enjoy this type of content, too. But I just can’t defend such a poorly thought out release. Endgame content has no place in areas that are not endgame. There are plenty of good places to put it, and the open world Tequatl fight is not it.

Did you know that if you take your lv 80 to a lower level zone, that your level is adjusted accordingly, so that it remains a challenge?

If there’s Elite Content in a lower level zone, anyone can participate, because this is Open World. Level appropriate players and higher level players can all give it a try. However, if you want to win, that takes skilled players working together.

Seveleniumus.5973:

lol, I love how most of you just read the topic and respond whatever.
I’m just saying that beating Tequatl doesn’t make you a better player or “elite” like many claim. I beat it today with my guild and wasn’t even downed once, does that make me a better player? No, I just turned on TS and followed commander tags, there’s nothing difficult about it and there isn’t any kind of special skill involved. The most difficult part was actually getting into the right overflow. It is a fun encounter to do, when you have ability to organize a lot of people, but it is not an “ozmg elite content.”

So to you, understanding mechanics and following orders to beat hard content, doesn’t make it hard anymore? Well…. yeah, that’s the whole purpose of learning. Clock Tower was hard, until I knew what to do. It’s still a challenge.

PS – It’s still Elite Content.

haviz.1340:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

There are some people who don’t want to earn things with effort. They’d rather it just be given to them. We call this “Entitlement”. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, as it’s human nature to want stuff. But in religious circles, Greed is one of the Seven Deadly Sins.

There are people who don’t understand simple concepts of this world. We call them differently but most often it starts with ‘c’.

Those are players who aren’t used to non-hack&slash MMOs. When Anet got rid of the Trinity, that threw people off. Even I was so programmed to standing behind a tank while I cast AOE, that I wasn’t ready to combat low level mobs when Beta came out. Over time, either you learn mechanics, or you suffer by constantly dying to simple enemies.

Malediktus.9250:

I dont know why people hate ascended crafting. If you dont like it you can play with exotic, wait for a drop or build a legendary.

There are some people who don’t want to earn things with effort. They’d rather it just be given to them. We call this “Entitlement”. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, as it’s human nature to want stuff. But in religious circles, Greed is one of the Seven Deadly Sins.

bravoart.5308:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

GW2 rewards those to use game mechanics to succeed. In fact, the game was made in a way that forces people to play smart, or be punished by the computer AI.

What reward? What playing smart? What ‘being punished by the AI’???

You go into the fight on the mercy that 6 people aren’t afk and know what they’re doing, while everyone else mashes 1 just like before. If those 6 people are doing their job, the zerg doesn’t need to do ANYTHING.

Being punished by the AI = Not getting a chance at the grand RNG wheel, which never pays out?

Hope everyone enjoys their blues and greens for content that is 100x more reliant on individual players not trolling than before.

This isn’t elite content. This is barely content at all.

Just because you can’t do it, doesn’t mean this isn’t content, esp. content that we can enjoy.

Even if you have 6 good people on the Turrets, if everyone else doesn’t know what to do, you still fail. Only spamming “1” is the one of the main causes for failing this event, since it takes skill to understand the mechanics of jumping, dodging, kiting, etc. That’s something you should consider.

Aster Sage.5417:

I find myself frustrated and extremely discouraged. I don’t want them to nerf the fight. It was challenging and fun. But, if they don’t, how are the rest of us supposed to do this in 15 mins? The players don’t seem interested in getting better. To highlight my point, a quote from a random person at one of the many failed attempts, “This is a video game, I shouldn’t have to study.” He refused to watch a youtube video or read the forum post showing the basic strategy!

If your defense, if that person doesn’t want to learn, then he doesn’t deserve to play Elite content. GW2 rewards those to use game mechanics to succeed. In fact, the game was made in a way that forces people to play smart, or be punished by the computer AI.

Seveleniumus.5973:

I’m tired of all those l2p and “ozmg it’s the most difficult content ever” topics. Tequatl is NOT difficult, nor challenging content, the only challenge is, well, logistics. Those who beat this boss, beat it not because they are good at the game, they beat it, because they have access to a large pool of human resources – big guilds, high pop servers and so on. It doesn’t really matter if those 100+ started playing a week ago or if they were playing for over a year, the only task that one needs to do is stand in the predefined place and spam skills, now this can’t be performed in low pop servers, because there’s not enough people and it can’t be performed with a bunch of randoms, because they usually don’t listen to anyone and everyone just scatters all around the map, making it impossible to effectively heal/buff with turrets, res and so on.

I’m not necessarily complaining about this type of content, though it’s not really my cup of tea, I’m only annoyed by “omg I beat Tequatl, I must be the best player ever now” attitude.
Solo’ing dungeons is difficult, being near the top/at top of PVP rankings is difficult, winning 1 vs 3 encounters in pvp/WvW is difficult, SAB tribunal mode is difficult, high level fractals/some dungeons can be somewhat difficult. World bosses atm are not difficult. If you’ll get enough people to stand in predefined places, you’ll beat any of them, it doesn’t require skill, just people, who are able to listen/read.

Do realize that fully queues servers (meaning max allowed on the map) constantly fail. So I don’t understand why you think having more people = easy.

arabeth.2361:

I’d say what’s way more community-damaging are people like the above poster (edit: I meant penguin), and many others, who come to the forums and talk down to people and make rude comments. Every time you read on the forum someone say “this isn’t for you” or “you don’t know how to play” or “you’re doing it wrong” or something to that effect: that’s damaging the community.

(Ironic, given that the reason GW2 is doing well is because LOTS of people play it. If the people who think everyone who isn’t like them should quit, they’d be out of a game rather quickly.)

Talk down? Rude? So people who enjoy challenging content is now rude for wanting it? I’ve said this over and over, there are different types of gamers. Casuals and Hardcore. Skilled and Unskilled. Easy Mode and Hard Mode. Anet has content in this game for all types. If you can’t handle hard content, stick to easier ones. I think it’s more damaging for players to come in and demand that content made for one type of player, be nerfed so another type can enjoy it.

Tequatl is for the Elites because it requires more than just randomly pressing “1” with an random, unorganized mob.

Eirdyne.9843:

Summary:
-There is no reason to go to the Tequatl fight because it is no different than throwing rares into the mystic forge.
- Your chance of success is very truly entirely based upon chance.
- Players are no longer important in the fight or to the fight except those 6 on the cannon.
- The six players on the cannons are responsible for the success or failure of an entire server.
- There is no reward for participating in the event. Tequatl is a fight based around chance. Therefore, to show up to the fight is to show up with a very low rational hope of success.
- People have better things to do with their time.
- This kind of content will generate irrationality, bickering, and a generally negative social climate in your game.
- You did not understand this.

Making incorrect negative assumptions is more damaging. Let me break it down for you.

1) Tequatl fight isn’t RNG, so you can’t compare it to Mystic Forging
2) Chance of success is based on organization and teamwork, not random chance.
3) All players are important in this fight. People attacking Teq, people defending the Turrets, people ON the Turrets (who also must know what to do with Turret skills)
4) There are rewards for participating, albeit minor. Why do you want big rewards for failing?
5) People who want/like the challenge are enjoying their time in this fight.
6) This kind of content isn’t for everyone.
7) I hope you understand this list.

Coldin.2840:

You define “reward” as beating him completely. I’ll define the reward as “putting in time and effort and while not necessarily beating him, still making progress”. I guess my definition is a bit longer, but I believe it’s more fair to the average player.

Even so, why can we not have rewards for both the intervals, and a much grander reward for beating him? I see no reason why one has to suffer for the other.

I’ll propose some numbers here, just to give an idea of what I think would be fair.

Dragon Chest: You receive one of these for each % marker you get him down. So one dragon chest for 75%, two for 50%, and three for 25%. Inside the dragon chest is one flask of karma, a green item that has a high percentage chance for a rare, and 10 silver. Silver is mostly there to cover repair costs.

The first time per day per account you bring him down low enough to receive a dragon chest, you also receive 1 guaranteed rare item, with a chance for an exotic. This encourages people to attempt him at least once a day, even if they may not win.

Defeating him would reward the player with 3 dragon chests, as well as the Tequatl chest. The Tequatl chest includes 50 of each ascended material (Bloodstone, Empyrial, Dragonite), as well as one guaranteed exotic, with a chance of the ascended or named items, and 50 silver.

Now, you may say that giving players 1 exotic and 50 silver for beating Tequatl is too much. But let’s also consider that to beat him, a group has to basically coordinate and rally together over the course of an hour to get to the point where beating him is even possible. That time could be spent champion farming, where 50 silver is easily acquired as well as many chances for rares and exotics.

That’s what I think would be fair rewards, and hopefully keep people attempting Tequatl long after Boss Week is done. Assuming they don’t nerf Tequatl himself, of course.

*Puts on compromise hat

1) Daily reward limit – No multiple “Chests” of course
2) No major rewards at 75% and 50%. You get a basic chest with a Masterwork item or chance for Rare+, and some Silver.
3) 25% up gets the Rare or chance for Exotic, and some Silver.
4) Winning the event should be the ultimate prize. Exotic, chance at Teq skin weapon or mini, Empyreal and Dragonite (no more Bloodstone please) and lots of Silver.

Tequatl is a major boss, so rewarding Silver or Gold for beating him isn’t the problem. What you don’t want is people just playing only to get certain percentage based rewards, then giving up. As I mentioned, the less incentive there is to win, the less people will care. All major rewards should come at the successful conclusion of the event.

Relshdan.6854:

Bhima.9518:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Coldin.2840:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Coldin.2840:

I think 75% should get more loot than some greens. If you asked most people stuck in overflows, they would say that getting Teq down to even 75% is not easy.

The guy was asking for a chance to get an Ascended weapon + a chance to get a Tequatl skin for each quarter life taken. That’s excessive considering that you don’t even have to win the event.

As for getting more loot for each quarter. I would argue that coordinated groups would then be getting way too much loot, since they can regularly get Teq down to less than 50% each time. Consider the fact that no other boss actually gives loot for not completing the event, a chest at the quarter HP bar is pretty generous of Anet.

Why shouldn’t there be a chance for an ascended weapon for getting him down a quarter health? Maybe it shouldn’t be 25%, but a tiny % chance would be nice for the amount of effort it can take a group of players to get him down even that far. If that means big coordinated groups are getting more loot, then so be it. If they aren’t getting that kind of loot, we will quickly see participation fall off after a couple weeks once all of them get their achievements.

Think if Scarlet Invasions were designed so that the champions did not give any loot at all, and your only reward at the end were the champion loot boxes the wave completions rewarded. I bet we would see hardly any groups bothering to complete it since they could get that same amount of rewards from one tour around Queensdale.

No other boss gives loot for failing simply because those bosses are very difficult to actually fail. Pretty much any group of players will bring Jormag, Shatterer, MK II, and the Fire Elemental down, even with their upgrades. So I would not say Arenanet was being generous, but that Arenanet already anticipated groups frequently not beating him.

The key point here is reward. You should get a reward for winning, That’s where the incentive is.

Should I get a Pact “Victory” token for /threatening Zhaitan on the airship? Should I get a JP chest for making it past the first few jumps? And lastly, should I get my Monthly Bonus after doing only half of the required 4 tasks?

Take away the incentive to win, you take away the will to win.

Problem with your conclusion: After beating Teq a few times, there IS no incentive to win because winning already gives you jack squat. I think the rewards for this fight should be upped at all 4 points (75% hp, 50% hp, 25% hp, 0% hp) by giving guaranteed rares at each step, 25% chance at exotic at 75%hp, 50% chance at 50% and a guaranteed exotic at 25% hp, with at least a 10% chance at an ascended chest when downing him. So if you kill him you get: 4 rares, 1 exotic, 50% chance for another exotic, 25% chance at another exotic and a 10% chance at ascended.

I agree that Daecollo’s rewards are too high, but the one point he makes that is absolute truth: If they don’t buff rewards people in the medium term will just stop doing this fight and it will be nerfed to increase participation. MOST of us don’t want the fight to be nerfed, ergo, Anet better bump up the rewards to keep people trying to down Teq.

agree…..whether you like it or not, events die when the rewards are not worth the effort. as much as i might do it for the fun or challenge, most don’t. we’ve seen this already with karka queen and jormag. path of least resistance is always followed by the vast majority. so when an event requires this many people to do…..it will most certainly die if the rewards are not improved significantly (not absurdly….but it should be much better than normal world boss events.)

But remember, you can’t add so many rewards so often. The really Elite players will be getting a lion’s share of the Rares and Exotics all the time, creating a much large gap in wealth. The key to increasing any type of rewards is keeping a good balance. You don’t want to reward the best loot for failing, so Teq exclusive items should be RNG’s only upon completion of the event. I could see a larger boost to drops at the 25% level, but not at 50% or 75%.

Daddicus.6128:

Astralporing.1957:

Yes, exactly – the same as every other MF build there was.
And yet for some reason Celestials were treated differently.

Nice post! So simple, yet so true.

The argument that MF was wrong has absolutely no bearing on this discussion. It’s completely unrelated to the issue.

The issue is the different way some gear was treated vs. the rest. “Logic, logic; what DO they teach them at these schools?”

You keep on making the mistake that two different items should be treated the same. Some gear’s MF had a much large presence, thus Anet compensated by allowing us to switch it around. Celestial gear was balanced out with medium stat boosts across the board. The loss of MF on Celestial gear was minor, as it didn’t take away from the effectiveness of the gear. Meaning, Celestial gear is still strong, while MF gear lost a major attribute.

To put it in numbers to make it easier to understand:

Celestial gear lost 13% of it’s effectiveness when MF was taken away. One could argue that it’s even less than that, since the bonus to MF was so tiny.

MF gear lost 33% of it’s effectiveness with the loss of one the three stat boosts.

Coldin.2840:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Coldin.2840:

I think 75% should get more loot than some greens. If you asked most people stuck in overflows, they would say that getting Teq down to even 75% is not easy.

The guy was asking for a chance to get an Ascended weapon + a chance to get a Tequatl skin for each quarter life taken. That’s excessive considering that you don’t even have to win the event.

As for getting more loot for each quarter. I would argue that coordinated groups would then be getting way too much loot, since they can regularly get Teq down to less than 50% each time. Consider the fact that no other boss actually gives loot for not completing the event, a chest at the quarter HP bar is pretty generous of Anet.

Why shouldn’t there be a chance for an ascended weapon for getting him down a quarter health? Maybe it shouldn’t be 25%, but a tiny % chance would be nice for the amount of effort it can take a group of players to get him down even that far. If that means big coordinated groups are getting more loot, then so be it. If they aren’t getting that kind of loot, we will quickly see participation fall off after a couple weeks once all of them get their achievements.

Think if Scarlet Invasions were designed so that the champions did not give any loot at all, and your only reward at the end were the champion loot boxes the wave completions rewarded. I bet we would see hardly any groups bothering to complete it since they could get that same amount of rewards from one tour around Queensdale.

No other boss gives loot for failing simply because those bosses are very difficult to actually fail. Pretty much any group of players will bring Jormag, Shatterer, MK II, and the Fire Elemental down, even with their upgrades. So I would not say Arenanet was being generous, but that Arenanet already anticipated groups frequently not beating him.

The key point here is reward. You should get a reward for winning, That’s where the incentive is.

Should I get a Pact “Victory” token for /threatening Zhaitan on the airship? Should I get a JP chest for making it past the first few jumps? And lastly, should I get my Monthly Bonus after doing only half of the required 4 tasks?

Take away the incentive to win, you take away the will to win.

NoxInfernus.2361:

Essence Snow.3194:

Solo.9027:

John Smith.4610:

Hyper.6374:

tolunart.2095:

Hyper.6374:

TLDR:- is anet manipulating the trading post that’s supposed to be player driven?

No.

Awesome and your source?

No.

There needs to be a John Smith pvp finisher on the gem store where a big red “No.” drops on the corpse.

So you want a vague finisher that your foe doesn’t know if they have been finished or not? Genius!

Oh you know you’ve been finished when ‘The Smith’ comes down. Denial is not a defense.

New PvP only clothes:

Tin Foil Hat – Gives immunity to logic and reason for 15 seconds. Negates “The Smith” finisher.

DaShi.1368:

Guys! Someone bought my silver doubloon for 1g! Who can solve this mystery?

I’ll call Shag and Scoob. There’s no mystery they can’t solve.

Coldin.2840:

I think 75% should get more loot than some greens. If you asked most people stuck in overflows, they would say that getting Teq down to even 75% is not easy.

The guy was asking for a chance to get an Ascended weapon + a chance to get a Tequatl skin for each quarter life taken. That’s excessive considering that you don’t even have to win the event.

As for getting more loot for each quarter. I would argue that coordinated groups would then be getting way too much loot, since they can regularly get Teq down to less than 50% each time. Consider the fact that no other boss actually gives loot for not completing the event, a chest at the quarter HP bar is pretty generous of Anet.

I vote OP for Player of the Year.

Daecollo.9578:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Did you read your own post? You just said that if you fail, you get no loot. Then go on to ask for loot for failing.

*Edited to make it easier to understand.

Quote me where, please.

It’s in your own post:

Daecollo.9578:

Please don’t talk before reading.

If you fail the event you still get no loot.

I said you have to get him to atleast 75% HP for the first loot.

In essence, you’re asking for Easy Mode.

Cuddlepie.8109:

The GW2 Twitter response to overflows was:

“A number of overflow worlds have defeated Tequatl, so they’re definitely not bound to fail. ~RB2”

I wonder how “not bound to fail” functions as a percentage of all overflow attempts?

I marvel at how far the GW2 team’s perceptions seem to be from that of its playerbase (well, on the forums at least).

The word that springs to my mind about their attitude is hubris.

From your post, I get the feeling that you’d like a guaranteed chance to beat Tequatl, no matter what Overflow or server you’re on.

Tken.1986:

Netko.9271:

Time limit is only challenge there, if there is no time limit 10 ppl could just autoattack it and kill it eventually.

Indeed. I don’t expect time limit to be remove , and I don’t wish for that kind of lazy adjustment. But 15 minutes limit is really unfair for the players that can only play when majority of players are sleeping.

I didn’t know that the fairly easy Jormag have 30 minutes lol.
Time does not equal difficulty tho

How do you balance fairness in time zones when people from all over the world play at any given time? The challenge is set at 15 minutes. If your server doesn’t have people willing to attempt the challenge, that’s not your fault or Anet’s. Guest over to another server if you need to, or try and organize people online in your server to give it a try.

Did you know that if you end up fighting an Elder Dragon later in the game? You probably wouldn’t know that if you didn’t do Story Mode, and explored/discovered along the way.

Daecollo.9578:

Please don’t talk before reading.

If you fail the event you still get no loot.

I said you have to get him to atleast 75% HP for the first loot.

Did you read your own post? You just said that if you fail, you get no loot. Then go on to ask for loot for failing.

*Edited to make it easier to understand.

People say this is impossible. People say that we need instances to weed out the poorly skilled players. People say that Overflows are a guaranteed failure. Yet Tequatl is being defeated across servers (and Overflows), again and again and again. What is their secret?

Daecollo.9578:

Piscore.6934:

Daecollo.9578:

Why? It has the same horrible drop-rate as it did before, and its only 100 times harder. I will just do other easier world events.

What should you do about it?
First of all, make the kill REWARDING…

75% Health
25% Chance to drop a random Ascended Weapon Chest. (of any stats.)
8% Chance to drop the special new Tequatl Weapon skins.

50% Health
50% Chance to drop a random Ascended Weapon Chest. (of any stats.)
16% Chance to drop the special new Tequatl Weapon skins.

25% Health
75% Chance to drop a random Ascended Weapon Chest. (of any stats.)
25% Chance to drop the special new Tequatl Weapon skins.

0%, You successfully downed him.
100% Chance to drop a random Ascended Weapon Chest. (of any stats.)
33% Chance to drop the special new Tequatl Weapon skins.

This would make the fight MUCH more rewarding, you still have a chance to get a Random Box however since the box is random you still have incentive to keep killing him, it is just not such a LOW chance that its not worth doing.

Currently..
I have no incentive to do this, I have the scales/ore from the last update and I would rather make my legendary or craft one then do this, its simply NOT WORTH MY TIME.

If you reward as much as I read in this topic, why would you need to do crafts?, people just kill the boss and will do the crafts.

pd: sorry if you dont understand me, my english is poor.

Ok.

You have a 25% – 50% -75% – 100% chance to get a Random Chest.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_chest

25% / 17 = 1.47% Chance to get the chest you want.
50% / 17 = 2.9% Chance to get the chest you want.
75% / 17 = 4.4% Chance to get the chest you want.
100% / 17 = 5.8% Chance to get the chest you want.

The numbers are actually quite low if you take into the account the RNG, CRAFTING WILL STILL BE THE BEST WAY… by a long shot.

Most of the ascended weapons are worse then there exotic counterparts, You have a 1 in 17 chance to get Berserker Stats for example.

You’re still asking for free Ascended stuff for not accomplishing the task? Wow…

Hermes.7014:

Has anyone from Anet confirmed they’ll become craftable anytime soon or is people selling everything out of pure speculation?

Colin confirmed it with a PAX interview, but I don’t remember a time frame.

Ivonbeton.6814:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Aerlen.5326:

I’m elite because I can follow orders, read, multitask, have exotic gear and know to wp when dead?

Well…

Welcome to the team!

Ivonbeton.6814:

That’s it. I call troll.

Not sure how me liking challenging content counts as troll. I love it when I fail something hard. It makes me a better player, because it forces me to learn from my mistakes.

Most people complaining also enjoy hard content. Hell, I barely left tribulation mode after it got released. They have no quarrel with the difficulty imposed by the fight itself or the mechanics of the fight. What they DO have a problem with is the fact that they are stuck with people who have every right to be there, but don’t have the required grasp of the game to actually do well in this content. Or that they are stuck with people afk’ing near or on the turrets.

You have been so lucky to be on a server without all that and you wrongfully assume that it’s like that everywhere else. That’s why I think you are trolling. You are ignoring every argument about how most servers are struggling to get people out of /afk and off the turrets or how some servers just have less skilled people on them.

The effort some of the commanders, people and guilds on my server took, is by no means inferior to what happened on yours. Yet here the result is demoralizing because we get stuck with more casual players (again, they have every right to be there) or people going afk. You are being condescending in assuming that we are all bad simply because we have people that refuse to cooperate.

Ok, I agree that it’s disheartening to have people AFK or purposely troll on turrets. But you should not be able to exclude people simply because they don’t know how to play the encounter with Teq. In time they’ll learn too.

There’s no middle ground here, since you can’t just pick and choose who to kick. You can report who you think are trolls, but some Devs said in the past that it’s hard to differentiate those who don’t know what they’re doing, from those who try to make the event fail. So unless you have rock solid proof that they’re trolling (i.e. screen caps of them admitting), there’s not much that can be done.

Aerlen.5326:

I’m elite because I can follow orders, read, multitask, have exotic gear and know to wp when dead?

Well…

Welcome to the team!

Ivonbeton.6814:

That’s it. I call troll.

Not sure how me liking challenging content counts as troll. I love it when I fail something hard. It makes me a better player, because it forces me to learn from my mistakes.

Dagraan.2854:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Dagraan.2854:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

sirflamesword.3896:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

So you agree with me that spamming “1” is not going to win the fight? I mean, how does one rez while doing nothing else?

The fact here is that people are mad that they can’t beat the new Tequatl. This is Elite level content. Players who understand the game mechanics, and thus USE the mechanics to beat a hard boss, are clearly in the Elite league. Meteor Shower, Ice Bow, Banner Rez, piloting turrets, etc.

Wow, just, wow. I’m almost speechless. THIS is the Elite level content people wanted? This is what people have to do to become elite? I’ve always though Player skill was the way to become elite, but I guess I just have to guest to BG/TC and sit in overflow for 8 hours till someone DCs to become Elite. Sounds fun?

Although I don’t disagree that the people on the turrets during the winning Teq fights are better than the rest of the zergball, but honestly that’s not that hard.

It is fun when you use your skills to beat a hard boss. Soon, all World Bosses will be like Tequatl.

you mean not being done and forgotten? developers like it when they create content that people ignore because its not worth the effort.
you may have some large guild organize a event to kill it, but is it really worth it? to create content thats only done by large guilds for kittens and giggles?

This is only one single event in the Open World. Shadow Behemoth is easy. Fire Ele is still doable. Putting something hard in a tiny area of the World Map, and the game becomes meaningless? There will be those who ignore the hard/challenging/elite content, and there will be those who seek it out.

sirflamesword.3896:

Still didn’t answer my question.

Which question? Why certain people can’t beat it? Or why Anet updated Tequatl to be much harder?

you do know that every other world boss just got a damage and health buff with a timer, they didn’t actually get reworked like teq.
these world bosses can be easily ignored, and they will be if all of them are reworked. it won’t make the whole game meaningless but it’ll make the bosses anet worked so kitten, meaningless when nobody cares to do it.

and i’d love to see you try and solo world bosses in 15 minutes because its finally suitable for you and you alone while not for the rest of the game.
its great design to focus on a extremely small majority that refuses to look for challenging content themselves and just have it ignored by the majority because its not worth the time.

It’s never a good idea to bring “allness statements” to a debate. It won’t be empty because “nobody cares to do it”. As I said earlier. There will be those who avoid the new bosses, and there will be those who seek them out. Certain people love punishing content. These people are players, same as you and me, so it make sense to release content that they can enjoy.

Side note – Within an hour of the update, players complained that Tequatl was impossible to beat. A day or so later, there are those who now say Tequatl is easy because you can zerg him, but then complain that they still can’t beat him because they can’t guest on the right zerg server.

Simplicity.7208:

Were you under a rock prior to this patch when every boss had unlimited time?

Which is why there are now timers in place.

sirflamesword.3896:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Dagraan.2854:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

sirflamesword.3896:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

So you agree with me that spamming “1” is not going to win the fight? I mean, how does one rez while doing nothing else?

The fact here is that people are mad that they can’t beat the new Tequatl. This is Elite level content. Players who understand the game mechanics, and thus USE the mechanics to beat a hard boss, are clearly in the Elite league. Meteor Shower, Ice Bow, Banner Rez, piloting turrets, etc.

Wow, just, wow. I’m almost speechless. THIS is the Elite level content people wanted? This is what people have to do to become elite? I’ve always though Player skill was the way to become elite, but I guess I just have to guest to BG/TC and sit in overflow for 8 hours till someone DCs to become Elite. Sounds fun?

Although I don’t disagree that the people on the turrets during the winning Teq fights are better than the rest of the zergball, but honestly that’s not that hard.

It is fun when you use your skills to beat a hard boss. Soon, all World Bosses will be like Tequatl.

you mean not being done and forgotten? developers like it when they create content that people ignore because its not worth the effort.
you may have some large guild organize a event to kill it, but is it really worth it? to create content thats only done by large guilds for kittens and giggles?

This is only one single event in the Open World. Shadow Behemoth is easy. Fire Ele is still doable. Putting something hard in a tiny area of the World Map, and the game becomes meaningless? There will be those who ignore the hard/challenging/elite content, and there will be those who seek it out.

Where is the hard/challenging content?

Tequatl would like to have a word with you.

There will always be trolls. But as I stated in another thread, timers are needed. You can’t just have unlimited time to complete a task.

Dagraan.2854:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

sirflamesword.3896:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

So you agree with me that spamming “1” is not going to win the fight? I mean, how does one rez while doing nothing else?

The fact here is that people are mad that they can’t beat the new Tequatl. This is Elite level content. Players who understand the game mechanics, and thus USE the mechanics to beat a hard boss, are clearly in the Elite league. Meteor Shower, Ice Bow, Banner Rez, piloting turrets, etc.

Wow, just, wow. I’m almost speechless. THIS is the Elite level content people wanted? This is what people have to do to become elite? I’ve always though Player skill was the way to become elite, but I guess I just have to guest to BG/TC and sit in overflow for 8 hours till someone DCs to become Elite. Sounds fun?

Although I don’t disagree that the people on the turrets during the winning Teq fights are better than the rest of the zergball, but honestly that’s not that hard.

It is fun when you use your skills to beat a hard boss. Soon, all World Bosses will be like Tequatl.

you mean not being done and forgotten? developers like it when they create content that people ignore because its not worth the effort.
you may have some large guild organize a event to kill it, but is it really worth it? to create content thats only done by large guilds for kittens and giggles?

This is only one single event in the Open World. Shadow Behemoth is easy. Fire Ele is still doable. Putting something hard in a tiny area of the World Map, and the game becomes meaningless? There will be those who ignore the hard/challenging/elite content, and there will be those who seek it out.

sirflamesword.3896:

Still didn’t answer my question.

Which question? Why certain people can’t beat it? Or why Anet updated Tequatl to be much harder?

sirflamesword.3896:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

sirflamesword.3896:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

So you agree with me that spamming “1” is not going to win the fight? I mean, how does one rez while doing nothing else?

The fact here is that people are mad that they can’t beat the new Tequatl. This is Elite level content. Players who understand the game mechanics, and thus USE the mechanics to beat a hard boss, are clearly in the Elite league. Meteor Shower, Ice Bow, Banner Rez, piloting turrets, etc.

Wow, just, wow. I’m almost speechless. THIS is the Elite level content people wanted? This is what people have to do to become elite? I’ve always though Player skill was the way to become elite, but I guess I just have to guest to BG/TC and sit in overflow for 8 hours till someone DCs to become Elite. Sounds fun?

Although I don’t disagree that the people on the turrets during the winning Teq fights are better than the rest of the zergball, but honestly that’s not that hard.

It is fun when you use your skills to beat a hard boss. Soon, all World Bosses will be like Tequatl.

I have this feeling you are the one getting carried through every type of content in this game….

HOW IS THIS HARD? Noone has been able to answer this. His attacks aren’t hard to dodge, it’t not hard for a server to fight off the attackers around the megalazer, and anyone with half a brain can use a turret unless they are afk/trolling, or haven’t done the event before. All it takes is a HUGE ZERG sitting in a spot that the turrets can buff everyone to oblivion.

So then why is it that all servers aren’t able to beat Tequatl each time her spawns.

Shelledfade.6435:

I totally agree with this. It’s basically a gear-check for a public event, which is stupid, because its a PUBLIC EVENT. lol…..

Why would you add a gear-check mechanic for a PUBLIC EVENT???? LOL!

Anet never learns…. Been one bad call after another. Hell, I’m still waiting for craft the kitten precursor cuz I ain’t spending 800g on dusk, I mean you’re joking me right anet?

GET IT TOGETHER !!!!!!!!!

inb4 Precursor crafting is shown to be expensive and time consuming.

Faust.2965:

tolunart.2095:

Except that some rare dyes are pretty cheap and some uncommon dyes are expensive. The point is that no matter what system they use, someone is going to be kittened because either the expensive dye they bought isn’t “rare enough” for confirmation, or the cheap dye they bought is.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it simply a matter of comparing a dye’s store value, trading post highest buy order and possibly the drop percentage with a certain threshold, thus determining the item’s potential worth?

You could even go the extra mile and give the player the power to edit their individual threshold.

Why should the Devs program complicated algorithms into the game to save the 1 or 2 people who don’t take care in selecting an action?

The best solution to this is to be careful. There are people who still make mistakes with confirmations in place (i.e. wrong server transfers, high level salvaging, etc). Salvaged the wrong item or deleted that rare tonic? “Sorry for your loss, please take better care in the future.” is the line I would copy and paste to those people.

sirflamesword.3896:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

So you agree with me that spamming “1” is not going to win the fight? I mean, how does one rez while doing nothing else?

The fact here is that people are mad that they can’t beat the new Tequatl. This is Elite level content. Players who understand the game mechanics, and thus USE the mechanics to beat a hard boss, are clearly in the Elite league. Meteor Shower, Ice Bow, Banner Rez, piloting turrets, etc.

Wow, just, wow. I’m almost speechless. THIS is the Elite level content people wanted? This is what people have to do to become elite? I’ve always though Player skill was the way to become elite, but I guess I just have to guest to BG/TC and sit in overflow for 8 hours till someone DCs to become Elite. Sounds fun?

Although I don’t disagree that the people on the turrets during the winning Teq fights are better than the rest of the zergball, but honestly that’s not that hard.

It is fun when you use your skills to beat a hard boss. Soon, all World Bosses will be like Tequatl.

Shemsu.8721:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

JNetRocks.3652:

Tequatl and all of his boss-brethren needed an update badly.
Standing around spamming 1 was terrible design.
I love his new mechanics. Jumping the waves is amazingly fun. The turrets being essential is great. Requiring players to both attack and defend is fantastic.

That said, this is too hard for open-world content. Even if this was Zhaitan himself, no open-world content should be designed that a ‘regular’ group of players can’t complete it given some effort. That means that Tequatl should be able to be beaten by a group of 30~ lvl 65~ players in green~ lvl 65~ gear.

This dragon as is would be amazing in an instance. He puts Zhaitan to shame.
However in the open world, it just doesn’t fit the game that ArenaNet said they were making, and even as a player who enjoys challenging content (SAB Trib Mode, Liadri <3), I doubt I’ll continue to pursue this as-is.

If it would only take 30 people to kill Teq, then it’s no longer an Elite Boss fight. At that point, you just made “Easy Mode” Tequatl. You might as well ask for the old Teq back, where you just stand under him and spam “1”.

watch bogotters vid of bg’s win on youtube. 90% of those people didnt even bother to jump the waves, all they did was stand under him and spam skills, dont kid yourself the only hard mode about this is waiting in the zone for 8 hours to get into your servers main map, so you can communicate in a single language and/or on a single voip server. The fight itself does not require skill when zerged, and it is the ultimate zerg fest

So you agree with me that spamming “1” is not going to win the fight? I mean, how does one rez while doing nothing else?

The fact here is that people are mad that they can’t beat the new Tequatl. This is Elite level content. Players who understand the game mechanics, and thus USE the mechanics to beat a hard boss, are clearly in the Elite league. Meteor Shower, Ice Bow, Banner Rez, piloting turrets, etc.

No timers = unlimited time to kill boss = Easy Mode.

Timers put in place a requirement for completion. Whatever other fail mechanics you want to add in, there always needs to be a timer. Otherwise, we just just pea-shoot Teq down over the course of 24 hours while avoiding other said fail mechanics, and win.

I agree with Mad. Scaling + minimum required players is a really good compromise. That wouldn’t be considered a nerf, and it would still keep Teq as pretty Elite/Challenging.

sirflamesword.3896:

Clearly “hard mode” bosses in your book are just stationary foes with 2 attacks and a MASSIVE health pool. No other way to make a boss fun/“elite”(such a stupid saying) right? This ISN’T HARD, why can noone get that through their thick skulls, all it takes is a HUGE group in a precise location SPAMMING 1 just like how you say you don’t want bosses to be. So plz kitten and sit down.

So hey! How many times did you beat Tequatl v2.0 with a zerg spamming “1”?

JNetRocks.3652:

Tequatl and all of his boss-brethren needed an update badly.
Standing around spamming 1 was terrible design.
I love his new mechanics. Jumping the waves is amazingly fun. The turrets being essential is great. Requiring players to both attack and defend is fantastic.

That said, this is too hard for open-world content. Even if this was Zhaitan himself, no open-world content should be designed that a ‘regular’ group of players can’t complete it given some effort. That means that Tequatl should be able to be beaten by a group of 30~ lvl 65~ players in green~ lvl 65~ gear.

This dragon as is would be amazing in an instance. He puts Zhaitan to shame.
However in the open world, it just doesn’t fit the game that ArenaNet said they were making, and even as a player who enjoys challenging content (SAB Trib Mode, Liadri <3), I doubt I’ll continue to pursue this as-is.

If it would only take 30 people to kill Teq, then it’s no longer an Elite Boss fight. At that point, you just made “Easy Mode” Tequatl. You might as well ask for the old Teq back, where you just stand under him and spam “1”.