Guild Wars 2

maddoctor.2738:

Solori.6025:

maddoctor.2738:

Solori.6025:

maddoctor.2738:

Intigo.1653:

maddoctor.2738:

it is intended to be the most useless downed skill ever?

Haha, wow.

I don’t know any other downed skills that can kill the user

……Your serious?

No………….good joke sir..
Very good joke..

There are? Enlighten me

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vengeance

Will kill the warrior after its done and if you die before vengeance ends and waypoint..it kills you again.

This is… another crazy bug.

yup -_-..

So when you think vapor form is bad…just imagine dieng twice..

cause you decided to spawn -_-

maddoctor.2738:

Solori.6025:

maddoctor.2738:

Intigo.1653:

maddoctor.2738:

it is intended to be the most useless downed skill ever?

Haha, wow.

I don’t know any other downed skills that can kill the user

……Your serious?

No………….good joke sir..
Very good joke..

There are? Enlighten me

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vengeance

Will kill the warrior after its done and if you die before vengeance ends and waypoint..it kills you again.

EsLafiel.4517:

ashleydoll.8563:

UnknownFreak.2805:

Mesmer is not OP, if you fail with one timing in a 1v2, may happen in 1v1 aswell, you die almost instantly, but however if your timings are correct you can crush anything, well not a 1v5 and up

Mesmer is not even that strong 1v1, it only happens when bad players get confused by the illusions.

It’s actually incredibly hard to keep any competent melee class off of you, people are realizing now it’s quite easy to keep track of the real Mesmer and just beat their face in, especially Thieves with their myriad stuns, snares and roots. It is because of this that glass cannon shatter builds are essential for Mesmers, you will never kill melee in your face unless you counter their damage with even more of your own.

Of course I have been involved in the humiliating butt kicking of up to 3 enemies before, but they’re always bad puggers. Against good players you should struggle in most 1 on 1s and a 1v2 should be unwinnable. Anything else that happens is the result of playing against bad people and has nothing to do with the Mesmer itself. Those same people would probably have lost to me if I was any other class.

I used to always think of Warrior as an easy kill, until I started going against Warrior players that competently busted out shield stance with good timing and would counter an entire shatter. Stuff like that is what you see with good players, whereas a bad Warrior would just keep trying to Hblades you and probably forget he has a second weapon to swap to.

If people just played at higher levels more often, they’d see this game is incredibly balanced.

Sorry but your wrong, I had 2 fully gear Warriors on me.

In WvW, one in Arah and one in CoF gear.

I am no where near a high damage mez(I am a tank)

I crush them both no problem, hp did not even get below half.

Why all their major skill I saw comming and use 2 on sword are f4(only shatter skill I use)

Also keep defender/warden out and right next to me, made it where they could not go long rang and had to stay up close are over 70% of their attacks would be reflex.

So force them into melee and then out melee them with no clones/invisble.

Warden 3k/bf 2k/1 500/500/800…….get my point not exactly high damage and yet I can take out multy people with no prob.
1v2 I never die, and i got a build like no one else will ever use.

Just because someone has gear doesnt mean they are skilled with their class..
Especially since in this game
Skill > gear.

maddoctor.2738:

Intigo.1653:

maddoctor.2738:

it is intended to be the most useless downed skill ever?

Haha, wow.

I don’t know any other downed skills that can kill the user

……Your serious?

No………….good joke sir..
Very good joke..

LaronX.8079:

Carighan.6758:

LaronX.8079:

This goes back to realese I think and it not limited to our class. It just seems like A-net has to less ppl for live support.

Which isn’t really surprising. It needs an ungodly amount of manpower to bust out a whole game in anything less than 1 DNF unit, but it takes a comparatively tiny team to support, bugfix and extend the game once done.

Ofc… they are unfamiliar with large parts of it

I think the number a-net dropeed was 2. Which is to low even for that. Sure you don’t need a full dev team on that. But 2 guys that are supposed to cover, engine, mechanics and balancing sounds a bit low.

Watch the SoTG interview..its not just 2 guys working on balance.

JonPeters.5630:

Now if only I could figure out the berserker dmg thing… Worst case scenario I will just try and readjust the numbers based on the new functionality but that is harder because I don’t have the old data. For what it is worth it was not the bladetrail change that messed with this because we locally reverted that and this berserker issue still persisted.

Could it be a hitbox issue?

I know that when playing my Ele, if I use lighting whip on daggers and im to close to the target I will miss often until i back away and give it about 2 ft of room.
Or if you use firegrab and the target is moving to the your left or right, firegrab, even though your in range of it, will miss..

Just a thought, but it may be close to the same issue.

That was a really good discussion..
Question though..

What build are S/D ele’s in tpvp running that brought on the hate?

I felt when running S/D that it was way to slow vs D/D

Edit: I also love the gentle “L2P” Jsharp issued to people complaining about everything

Gintoki.6405:

in all seriousness though from listening to the chat yesterday between some of the top tourney teams and johnathan sharp, it seems the will be trying to make more viable builds, and small changes per patch in order to not mess with us too much, the last patch wasnt really like tht but you get the idea :P, one thing we can be fairly sure of a nerf however is the downed state we have.. seems like alot of qq about that.

you gotta remember that classes are normally balanced for top end play mostly, and ele is a hard charachter to learn. i can understand why its so hard to balance when its such a complex class.

The only real thing broken about our downed state is the fact that we go from 1% to 50%.
in spvp and tpvp we can prolong death to the last percent..
That will be nerfed..I hope that when that is nerfed they take away our double downed penalty.

……So much rage..

Some myths to debunk.

Tpvp’ers that are in the higher tiers have a greater understanding of their class and the game. You may think that they are used to running with 2+ people at all times and I can show you bunker’s,roamer’s, and random stallers where 1 person takes on 2+ people for either a cap, to down a low health player, or to stall for time and let his other teammates meet cap/pincer/escape etc.
Not many Tpvp’ers go to spvp to wave their kitten.
Reason is spvp doesnt really have a meaningful ranking system, or notoriety system, or worthwile rewards.
You can literally join a random game, and never see the same people for the rest of the night as you go from point to point with your zerg..its almost like a controlled wvw scenerio.

Everyone that plays spvp competitevly will at somepoint venture into tpvp.
Tpvp will test your coordination, build, reaction, knowledge, and patience ( if your pugging).

Spvp doesnt really push you to the limits of your best, because their is no ranking, no reputation to uphold, no real strategy besides zerging and counter zerging, no reward to strive for. You get in, have fun, lose a bit, win a bit.

Kardiamond.6952:

@Solori

in sPvp you are prolonging the inevitable a lot longer then most other class. Vapor form is no lackluster downedstate.

I just have some issue with a 0 risk advantage.

No, never said it was lackluster, but its about on par with the mesmer, theif, and warrior downed state.

So call me maybe…..

Carighan.6758:

I would like to again throw out the question:
Even if it is “too strong in castle defence”, why does that warrant a nerf?

I would argue Mass Invisibility is seriously underpowered in boss fights, does that warrant a buff to also make it give 10 stacks of Might on top of AE stealth?

Well..You could argue every powerful skill in the game vs any other skill thats underpowered or too strong..
Most things that are too strong in one area are severly lacking in others.

Its funny, in Wv3 mist form may be too strong in the one scenerio of defending.
in tpvp and spvp, your just prolonging the inevitable, like every other class can.

Creslin.1758:

Lewa.9285:

This is not about you Creslin and about your selfclaimed god playing elementalist.:-). This is about the majority who hasn’t found a tiny niche in the elementalist build – the only one that works for fairly good dps. They want fun without having to study the profession for 2 weeks first because of what might work and which won’t. People are unhappy with the class because of what I already wrote above whether you like it or not. Being personal doesn’t make your argument stronger.

Will video proof help change your mind about Ele?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRw5jW80XJg

I’m seriously not that good, Ele is just a very, very good class once you get good with it. You absolutely do not have to study the class for 2 weeks. You just have to…you know, play it, practice it.

If you are arguing that every class in GW2 should be so simple that you can just pick it up and play immediately at high effectiveness…then I strongly, STRONGLY, disagree. Complexity is great for PvP games and makes them much more long-lived. If people are honestly complaining because they had to invest some modicum of effort to learn their class…then well, I don’t know what to say.

Great vid..
But do you have any conjured weapons ele builds doing that well…
Or staff..
or S/D ( I would love to see this one…get to makin it =_=)

This is something I enjoyed reading and I can only disagree with the arcana trait line bit.
Other than that. good read sir

Meh, if it gets nerfed it gets nerfed with a reason.

Now when focus gets nerfed…
we will have a problem =_=

Im actually liking the Wv3 scene

Good Job SoS for the fun fights and congrats ..

P.S.

Cover Girl < L’Oreal <_<

j/k :P

Creslin.1758:

Solori.6025:

Creslin.1758:

I think you guys are blowing this way out of proportion…this isn’t a “clutch” nerf that would drastically affect Ele playstyle. It would just make it so you can’t abuse vapor form to be unkillable in keep sieges…that’s it.

I’m honestly baffled by how many people think this is such a big deal. In my mind, it is just an irritating gimmick that seems clearly imbalanced when compared to other classes, and should be fixed.

Also, the uber spike BS build was nerfed via the change to assassin’s signet.

……….No…
no…

no it wasnt nerfed..
do you pvp at all or….

Assassin’s signet used to give +50% damage to your next attack. Now it gives +15% to your next 5. The old way could produce a ridiculously large amount of damage on the BS hit.

Go play a thief.

The Backstab combo with the signet ( prenerf) was what allowed them to pull of BS in the higher numbers around 9-13k.

Since its nerf.
Theifs still use the same tactic and rotation for the build, but instead add a heartseeker or two to finish you.
The combo can still produce a 2-3 second kill..

so some spvp for a few days..

magnafides.8136:

Creslin.1758:

And the big picture is that many good D/D Ele PvPers can 1v1 ANY class in the game and win. And not only that, Ele has some of the best group support in the game, so not only can you 1v1 any class and win, you also bring AMAZING support to your group while you’re doing it. There really aren’t many classes that do that…in fact, I can’t think of any.

Yeah, D/D Ele, we’ve heard that a million times. What if we don’t want to be confined to one spec? And how much support are you able to provide with that D/D ele? Because, if you want to switch to another weapon you’ll have to do it manually, outside of combat.

Creslin.1758:

If you don’t like the playstyle of Ele, then by all means, try another class.

I have, and now I wish I hadn’t spent so much time on the Ele (I’ve been sitting at 78 for over 2 weeks with no desire to get 80). My experience comes from PvE, and in that setting the Thief/Ranger makes the Ele seem like hard mode (and for me, the Thief is more fun).

Frankly, the versatility of the Ele doesn’t overcome the deficiencies in damage and defense, and I have to work A LOT harder to get a worse result. “Jack of all trades, master of none” is a perfect characterization of the Ele to me. Yeah, I can “do stuff” all day long, but it doesn’t really feeling like anything I’m doing is all that effective. I agree that you give up WAY too much for the ability to have 20 skills available to you at the same time (kind of) .

I’m surprised nobody in this thread has mentioned underwater combat. The Ele skills are so incredibly weak I can’t imagine they’re not the worst in the game by a large margin.

I have actually had the exact opposite experience in pve.

Underwater combat also isnt that bad, to me.
Its not as great as my mesmer underwater.
But its a lot better than my gaurdian imo.

Creslin.1758:

I think you guys are blowing this way out of proportion…this isn’t a “clutch” nerf that would drastically affect Ele playstyle. It would just make it so you can’t abuse vapor form to be unkillable in keep sieges…that’s it.

I’m honestly baffled by how many people think this is such a big deal. In my mind, it is just an irritating gimmick that seems clearly imbalanced when compared to other classes, and should be fixed.

Also, the uber spike BS build was nerfed via the change to assassin’s signet.

……….No…
no…

no it wasnt nerfed..
do you pvp at all or….

Erebus Delirium.4892:

Feel free to defend your overpowered build.

I actually main a Mesmer and have played many specs. As a previous posted pointed out, the DPS on this D/D Ele build is too great. When I bunker spec my Mes, I have negligable DPS — why should you get to be an armored cannon? Sorry, it’s too good.

…..Your Joking….

You have to be joking….

Your doing something very wrong on your mesmer…
If you post your build on the mesmer forum though I and some others may be willing to help you get a working and viable bunker build.

You guys, this reminds me of a story..
Once upon a time..
A bunch of people came to the forums to QQ about backstab..
They flooded the forums for months until one day a golden dev stepped out and said.
“we are looking into it”
Their was much rejoicing and slowly the river of tears dried and drained..

Then…on the glorious day of the patch..
The QQ’rs , with their celebration hats on read the patch..
And beheld that backstab wasnt touched..
The world ended in a giant flood..

A-Net wont do clutch nerfs.
Especially for WvWvW..

TWMagimay.9057:

Solori.6025:

This game doesnt have healers…
The Ele plays nothing like a traditional healer.
The ele can be a nuker if you build for it
It can be support if you build for it.
It can be a sustained dps if you build for it.

Its all about how you build and trait the class to function

Actually, staff ele plays exactly like a healer. Not like a traditional healer, but like a good healer. As in, more support, less healing.

This is probably because of your build, and/or playstyle
The staff to me plays like a multi target nuke, because thats the only time I actually need to use the staff.

But this still ties into what I said.

Its all about how you build and trait your class to function.

Conncept.7638:

Yeah, 27k burst that only a complete moron would ever get hit by.

.

In Tpvp, I dont think anyone would fall for this more than once….

in spvp…

the amount of stupid will suprise you.

TWMagimay.9057:

No, I think you are misudnerstanding. For me the low dmg is not a “trade-off”. Ele plays a lot like a healer. Low dmg, medium survival, high support(at least staff ele does). And, as you know, not everybody can play a healer, most people can’t. And there’s nothing wrong with that. The problem is, people expect ele to be a nuker(maybe at some point that were true), but it’s more of a support-dmg hybrid which, ofc, means subpar dps.

This game doesnt have healers…
The Ele plays nothing like a traditional healer.
The ele can be a nuker if you build for it
It can be support if you build for it.
It can be a sustained dps if you build for it.

Its all about how you build and trait the class to function

Which would be the…class design…. And I wouldn’t say ele autoattacks are that bad… I mean, they are autoattacks after all, all of them are pretty meh, for all classes.

some of out auto attacks are crap, some of them are great. I agree every class has a good auto attack and a bad one.

Mah Elenornalist

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The class in several areas needs a whole redesign, however this will NEVER happen. We just gotta get used to the game as it is and expect BIG nerfs when people more readily use that Fire grab combo as i bet we will see some big nerfs to the class simply for that combo

Maybe, but that spec is just like the theif spec for backstab-
The only difference is, if an ele misses..they die…
We dont have a stealth
or back to back Teleports

The biggest thing about that combo is you have to actually hit someone with it, and they need to be either afk, brain dead, or both

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

I havnt found 1 skill that is useless in Elementalist.

!

I can actually name a few that are -_-

Penguin.5197:

So yesterday I was doing spvp and was defending a point when this enemy elementalist came to try and take it. I didn’t think it was possible but she kept like dodging 95% of the time and it was just hard to hit her (though net shot shut her down completely). At first I was thinking it was with vigor but not even vigor lets you dodge after dodge. So to you people who are more familiar with elementalist, can I have any insight into what was going on?

It may have been a build with sigil of superior energy and vigor+ regen on cantrip use.

Maybe :o

Hello Everyone.

I have been playing the Elementalist more since my last pickup of it in beta.
Its been an uphill,downhill,sidehill,loophill(? 0_o) journey to getting the class to a place I was comfortable in.
It was a little more of a challenge getting into combo’s and builds I was uncomfortable in, but all in all its been a wonderful experience that has been challenging and rewarding ( to some degree) than the other class’s I have played.

A bit of an introduction to my gaming history
{ Obligatory gaming history with made up numbers of years and mmo’s and beta’s played..cause its obligatory}.

The Elementalist has some pro’s, that are off-set by other con’s and rightfully so, but I feel our con’s are starting to catch up and overlap the pro’s.
To start off I’ll list some of the good things off the top of my head that ele’s bring to the table.

Pro’s:
-and Abundance of Combo fields
-AoE
-Boons and Aura’s
-Combat Readiness ( meaning we can adapt to basically every situation that calls for something a little easier than most classes)
-DPS
-Cool effects ( cause everyone likes to look cool)

Those are some of the general pro’s ( its not specific because I am going to focus on the Con’s more seeing as how I need space and thats the whole point of this thread)

Like most classes in this game the elementalist has some con’s, namely in utility, build variation, and trait choice, that confuse and dissuade people from the class.
Starting with
Traits.

-For a class that needs to swap different attunments to stay on par with others, its wierd to have traits that focus on you staying in one for a set period of time. Would it not be better to remove those traits, and instead focus traits on the swapping in and out of the attunment rather than staying in it?

- Some traits are useless, because the utilities they are tied to are not as powerful or useful than another( This is going to tie into mainly conjured weapons)

- No fall damage reduction trait….why -_- ( It makes me sad when I fall off a rock or cliff during a jumping puzzle and die, but my theif guildie falls..lands with 1 hp and laughs at my dead corps and puts his cold clamy theif hands on my face to rez me )

Utilities..

-Conjured Weapons has been a topic for elementalist since the beta weekends.
In most situations, using a conjured weapon is actually counterproductive to using a glyph+ weapon skill, or an arcane spell+ weapon skill, etc.
Some cases’s ( AC exp comes to mind) using a conjured weapon ( frost bow mainly) is very useful and could make a dungeon run 2x easier.
The problem with the conjured weapons right now is that they are not as useful in the larger picture.
Sure in that one dungeon people will want a frost bow, but what about the other parts of the game?
Their is a reason not many people use conjured weapons.
- They have a long cooldown.
-They are not on demand because of the summoning delay.
- The cooldown’s for the skills are long.

-Sidenote-

Something more about utilites.
A lot of utilites for the Elementalist are on a longer cooldown vs that of the other cloth wearing proffessions or even the heavy armor proffessions.

I would agree with the duration:cooldown timer for those abilities if our risk vs reward was also on par with the other proffessions.

An example of this disparity would be the Utilities of a mesmer vs that of an elementalist.

Suggestions.

-Complete Review of traits.

I know this is something that would take time. But its something that needs to happen.
The class has a lot of useless traits that either dont belong or make something that isnt worth having slightly better at the cost of something worth having that makes what ever power or utility still a better choice .

-Review of Conjured Weapons and Other utilites

This may be something that can feasibly happen.
Their is already a thread for the conjured weapons, so i will not rehash the suggestions but instead link them

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Conjures-Revelations-and-Suggestions

For other utilities I would actually compare their use and cooldown to other utilities from other proffessions. This way you get a larger perspective of their range of usefulness.
( I understand class’s should be different, but to have such a large gap in utility superiorty is unacceptable)

- Out of Combat Weapon Swap

This is something that can happen. The reason I say this is because as of recently I have been running into a bug on both my mesmer and theif that prevents me from switching weapons in combat. This may be coding blessing in disguise.

The elementalist, with some small changes and improvements to weapons, traits, and utilities can become like it was in beta, a rewarding, hard to master class.

Ima leave this here

http://youtu.be/8BDQGDELcUk

ele hitting firegrab for 13k

Mogar.9216:

boozer.7815:

Mogar.9216:

The first 10 pts is needed in Arcane. The next 5 is almost a must but not as important and the first 10. Sure you can run without, but you are doing it wrong. Trust me I have tried so hard not to use arcane, the extra heal + def is just too much to not use.

Well, thats because your most likely playing the class wrong. Arcana is a very well put together traitline and it is very powerful, but it is not necessarily our best line, nor is it necessary to spec into it to do well with this class.

So in one hand you are saying Arcana is powerful then right away you as saying we shouldn’t spec into it. Name another line that have better traits than Arcana. Sure if you don’t want to use the best line we have all the more power to you. I can see that you are glass cannon spec. I have never meet an effective glass cannon ele in pvp or wvw. I have never read one post by any one saying glass cannon eles are tough or effective. I have never saw any video of glass cannon eles that’s any good period.

Earth, Water, and Fire all have some really great traits in their line.

Arcana is a good line, but it isnt the best, it has some great traits in it, but depending on the build it could actually be a bad descision to put points into Arcana.
Which is the point I think people are trying to make.

Xom.9264:

Birdrock.1697:

Xom.9264:

Birdrock.1697:

Xom.9264:

Hammerheart.1426:

Ryuujin.8236:

I suspect it’s intended. Once the mesmer hits shatter the clones are essentially projectiles that home in on the target to deliver the selected skill, the mesmer has no further control of them.

Preventing the mesmer using any phantasm skills until the projectiles hit home would be very unfair on them, no other class has to “wait” for a projectile attack to land before they can resume using their relevant skills again. Many classes can set up a projectile combo so multiple hits land simultaneously

Shattering illusions is not a projectile, thats like saying popping a bone minion is a projectile.

If the illusion is “in flight” it is still around, and should not be considered shattered yet. I certainly hope this was not intended.

Agree heck necros cant even blow up our two bone minions at the same time there is a stupid delay on blowing up the seconds one.. more times then not the second one dies before the delay is up and it can be exploded.

But mesmer is the chosen class all the tools and power with no drawback. Reason why its such a popular class in Tpvp and Spvp

Having a delay in triggering your second explosion doesn’t stop the rest of your minions AND death shroud from functioning.

Yeah it does I death shroud and i can no longer explode the minion…. If I have to go into deathshroud my bone minion will be dead before i get out to explode it 90% of the time. Oh and I actually have to look where the minions are at and hope the attack what I want them to… I can just hit a single key and have them explode or even attack the target i want. Mesmers have other skills to use besides clone spam/shatter… I know you never needed to learn about using these other skills because you have no reason to put effort into playing like some classed do, easymode burst combo needs a nerf. Burst with an ele and tell me mesmers are not broken easy.

On a side note, you must be mistaking me for someone else, I play a Necro everything about mesmers clones/phantoms and traits that buff them are easymode to the extream.

So the rest of your minions completely stop functioning after you explode the first bone minion and you are unable to enter death shroud as well? Because that is the parallel.

Pro tip: Don’t make foolish assumptions.I don’t play a shatter centric build. Keep ranting about how you think mesmers are the easiest profession to play while simultaneously not making the slightest effort at trying one to learn about the profession mechanics. If you did, you might find you are incorrect; keep that head in the sand.

Your side note doesn’t even make sense. How about this for an aside: are your minion summons able to be dodged, blocked, or fail because of blind or LOS? Didn’t think so.

There is a good chance my minions are not doing anything inthe first place and are just watching me fight. Thats why you dont see MM in pvp I dont have a trait that lets me instantly recast and spike with boneminions again anyway.

We should be comparing the Mesmers burst to the other burst cloth caster not the necro.

Ele burst vs Mes burst. Lets keep it simple.

You dont see eles speced burst in Tpvp or even Spvp heck you dont even see that many eles to begin with.
You see millions mesmers and they are all spected shatter burst.

Population levels are not even close ele burst is not viable and necro does not even have burst.

Mesmer burst OP and easy to play, if it was hard or balance you would not see so many mesmers the numbers of Mes Ele Necro would be closer to the same in spvp tpvp.

So , do you understand why not many people play burst elementalist?

Its kittening hard.
Learning to play an ele is hard, frustrating, and not that rewarding vs that of a thief, warrior, ranger, mesmer or even the easy lol i can give you 20 stacks of bleed in 3 seconds necro.
Compare the mesmer burst to a warrior’s, or thief’s.
Play a mesmer and learn what they actually do instead of cry wolf.
Maybe then you’ll learn the real problem with them.
It’ll suprise you how much easier mesmers are to deal with when you learn your class and theirs.

P.S. I dont get why people feel they need to cry on the forums still.

Has anet not made it clear they dont listen to hyperbole and will fix things at their pace.

Knote.2904:

Just for comparison.

Look at the game Champions Online. They eventually introduced gear stat mods that scaled up in ranks, up to 9 or so, and to get past 5-6 was a huge pain/grind/money sink. The stat difference was INSANELY SMALL however wasn’t even close to being required to do anything. It was there for someone people who feel like sinking money/time into it as a goal.

The rest of the game was cosmetic.

In CO you didnt need gear for pve you needed a build that worked to the maximum efficiency.
To pvp you needed gear and the build to even be competitive. ( yes you needed r6+)

Trying to compare CO to GW is like trying to compare a 5 star hotel to a garbage can with a bed in it.
It doesnt work.
CO is a crap game.
Lets try comparing GW to something with a little bit of success, so we can actually have an accurate measure between the two.

/rant

I would actually compromise with being able to see peoples win/loss ratio in both tournament and structured pvp.

Cutting out the majority of people to avoid seeing QQ threads is elitist and downright ignorant.

Blueroseknight.7954:

Dravyn.4671:

@Blueroseknight – I’m not sure where imbeciles like yourself learned the word “entitlement”, but you obviously never learned what it actually means. People spent real money for nothing…and are upset about it. That’s not what entitlement means.

But for the high and mighty among you that like to belittle the criticisms of others, this will hurt you in the end, because people will be less likely to spend money at the cash shop, which means less development money. Because of this thread, I will not be spending any of the money I had planned to spend tonight on gems.

So if I buy a lottery ticket and get nothing then tell the lottery officials that I should get my money back that is not entitlement? These people believe that through spending their money on a random thing, without knowing the odds, that they are “entitled” to a prize". Sounds like the definition of entitlement to me. They got what they paid for, the chance to get something.

See you at Xmas, maybe you’ll have better odds then. The chests are calling after all

Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, punch me in the face and laugh.

If people fall for this again at the next event, i will lose all faith in this community -_-

Rainfall.4017:

rickets.1386:

FalconDance.1637:

@Rickets

Just a thought, but this event goes on for a week or so. We already know that content will be added periodically specifically for this event all that while. Why would anyone spend all their money on the first day and then decide that, because they didn’t get what they expected (‘cause we all know that the odds are always in our favor and not anyone else’s), Anet is obviously greedy and uncaring about their customers. I’m sorry, but that sort of attitude is childish; gimme what I want, what I expect or I’m going to raise holy smoke and take my toys home forever.

Now, not that I’m accusing anyone here of this, but coming from 7+ years of GW1, I know that there are those who rush in, essentially grab up/buy the special goods as soon as possible and then re-sell, driving up the market prices. Perhaps Anet took that into consideration (it is a valid idea) and deliberately drizzled out the chance rate so that wouldn’t happen so soon. I don’t know – and neither does anyone besides the developers – what the actual percentage is, but apparently there are individuals who have opened chests and received special goods since there are apparently ones for sale.

Heck, I’m reading 17 pages (just this thread alone) of people griping and griefing – and I was tickled pink today to get really good armor drops on my girls and gleefully looked forward to finding pumpkins to carve, candy corn nodes and trick-or-treat bags fall from foe.

You’re missing the point. I personally don’t give a crap about my $30 i spent, i have the money. But, i want GW to succeed and it will not succeed if the people willing to pay real money don’t feel that paying real money is worth it. Don’t kid yourself, there are two types of players in GW2, freeloaders and Gem buyers. If you kitten off all the Gem buyers and turn them into freeloaders you’re not going to make much money are you, which translates into no new content for anyone…and eventually no money = no GW2.

What would have happened if i would have spent $30 and got 2 or 3 event items but not the ones i wanted? I would have bought another $30 worth of keys. Do you see how it’s in Anet’s best interest to make people willing to buy Gems feel like they are getting what they pay for?

You paid for a chance to get a rare skin. You got exactly what you paid for. A chance. What am i missing?

You start a company that for all means and purposes cater to customers
Customers are unhappy- they leave ( or in this case, stop supporting your cash shop which is one of the means of revenue for you to pay your developers/community reps/security team ,ect.)
No customers- no business
No business- no money.

Guess what Anet can’t do without money.

FUNCTION.

They have, from one event, dissuaded possibly thousands (or more) of players who would have dropped actual cash on this game for events ( and large amounts of cash for events if you bothered to actually tally up the potential amount of money from this thread alone, thats probably well over $3,000 and everyone has a friend who reads the forums, so even the people that dont read this will know from someone, never to buy keys for events.).
Its not something a smart company would do, on their first event.

Time will truly tell if this comes back to haunt them on any future event they plan to hold.

I understand you don’t like the whinning, but honestly, you can’t blame them for feeling cheated when they spend $30+ dollars and get nothing event related.

In closing, I feel for you guys that spent actual money, hopefully you warn the other customers who havent read into this money grab.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/10/22/guild-wars-2-halloween-update-video-chris-and-tom-try-on-costumes-throw-things-at-kids/#null

at 2:11..

I wonder what this will grant….

I want it nao >_<

bwillb.2165:

Division.9618:

bwillb.2165:

Even then the thief has to suddenly go braindead and stand still instead of dodging away

I’m just going to quote this for emphasis, because that is exactly the situation that gets people in trouble against thieves in the first place.

Or you know being surprised by a random thief jumping out of ambush and mugging you with basalisk venom or devourer venom, and then finishing you off instantly.

When did thieves become the only class with stun and immobilize?

They arent, I find it funny people still havent learned to counter a BS build in a 1 v 1.
It takes all of standing on the point and looking and being situationally aware of your surroundings.

If you get stolen to and hit by C&D, use your about face hotkey ( because people should have realized this is a button by now), use a defensive CD, dodge, do something other than stand there and look pretty.

A thief can reset the fight if his burst misses, awesome, because if your playing spvp or even tpvp right, you should be on a point. If no one is their to contest a point from you your team is winning. If after the first failed attempt your still standing still in lala land then you deserve to die instantly.

I can understand a BS thief build being a pain in a group scenario, chaos and tunnel vision (I suffer from tunnel vision a lot >_<) get even the best of us killed, but in 1 v 1….

P.S. this post was not directed at you bwi

Boomstin.3460:

Your many years in MMO’s haven’t taught you that one of the best indications that a class is out of whack is these kind of threads ’ Don’t touch us, we are not op. Other players just don’t know how to play ’

Well in traditional MMO’s all the classes didnt have some way to counter burst like this.

I agree it gets chaotic trying to defend against this in spvp, but honestly the maps were not designed for 8 v 8. In tpvp, builds like this are manageable to sometimes completely non-existent.
What would help people on these forums is to actually post a screenshot of their armor,class,and utility setup. Then maybe we can all come up with a constructive way to help people counter backstab ( its actually a lot easier than people think)

Chesire.9043:

If it’s all about skill, why doesn’t someone who considers themselves more experienced grow some balls like the OP and post a video show casing just how exactly they deal with these mechanics?

Everyone keeps bashing his play skills but not a single person has posted a video showing how “it should actually be done”. Any class but a Thief would be fine with me.

I dont know about finding these exact situations, but I can make a vid showing a team of tourny players both good and bad.

Do you have any free recording software ideas?
Ones that dont act like fraps and eat my fps -_-

Teknobug.3782:

Smackjack.5071:

Teknobug.3782:

Hm I don’t remember DS working while in Moa, does it?

Your point being ?

What? I was asking a question, I was asking if DS can be casted while in MOA because I don’t remember.

And please enlighten us on how you gain health while in DS?

To answer this question ( if someone hasnt already). IF you are moa’d while you have DS active you will be moa’d in DS, and will use the DS lifebar before you actually get to your own.

So with good situational awareness and , well, using the skill, you can have a double hp bar in moa, and basically nullify its effects.

sorrow.2364:

You guys are keep focusing on the specific situation without considering the whole balancing itself.

No matters how Moa is dodgeable, has a long cooldown and roots you in place for one second, no skill in the game is as destructive and game breaking as the Moa is. Take for instance any Necro skill.
Flash Golem is awful, it dies when you touch the water, you have no knockdown if the golem isn’t in the line of sight of the target (and you know how awful the mechanic is) and it only deals 800 damage every second. Just the Illusionary Duelist, a skill which is on a 16 cooldown when traited, is way better than Flash Golem.
Lich Form is just a way to tell everyone you want to die. You lose the access to you heal skill, you have no bonus to toughness and you became an incredibly big green thing, attracting everyone’s attention.
Plague Form is just decent as a damage mitigation skill, but it only makes you last a bit longer.
How can you say there is balance when just ONE Elite skill of the mesmer is way better than every Necro elite?

I want you guys also ask why guardians and engineers are the only professions used as point controller, just ask me why. The lack of profession variety in tPvP is a clear sign of not so good balance, expecially in a game who claims to not have the holy trinity.

The thief can deal an incredibly high damage in a so low time and without any efforts, while also having the most powerful defensive mechanic (stealth), which is still effective with no trait points in it.

The game unbalancing is so clear, I don’t understand why some people keep saying that the game is fine.

While thats a great rundown of some elites, their is still no excuse for poor playing.
Lich Form when used optimally can be a game changer ( have you ever seen a timewarped lich form?)
Flesh golem makes me vomit, so i agree with you their.
Plague form can actually be used to stack conditions and wait out for reinforcements or can be used as an escape method.
But none of those elites can be are nullified by a dodge, block, or clutch blind.
Again, I agree that moa needs to be tweaked, but saying its a problem when you were going to die anyway is.

Bunker builds for any class are going to take a while to deal with, the main reason people use guardians or engineers is because of their boon control, and CC. Those two factored in with good play make for excellent point defenders. Though last I read, Anet was aware of the uptime on bunker builds so I expect those to be changed in the future.

A thief does a high amount of damage at the cost of having one escape method. because if they miss with backstab, or you invul through his entire backstab combo, they run or die. Builds like that are good roamers, not optimal for fighting on points.

And again stealth isn’t bad when you anticipate where the thief is headed instead of where he was. In 1 v 1’s its obvious the theif is coming for you, in group fights, if you have 5k hp, again its obvious who the target is, if your standing on a point and backpeddling and not dodgeing, you deserve to get shanked out of principle.

sorrow.2364:

Eduardo.4675:

Sorrow:
I did not want to do this, but i have to: THEY WERE BAD. There. I said it. Ikittennow who starcraft forever is, u should AUTOMATICALLY realize that he was probably playing with some of his old friends from gw1, therefore, as milo pointed out, VOIP and good players; also, " the only dmg came from the OP when he tried to RANDOMLY…" the clue is in the word randomly…

Oh, sure. Because you can actually know with precision where the thief is when it is stealthed. The only way to counter a stealthed thief is to use your AoE randomly in the direction you think the thief is. It what the op did.

No, the OP spammed his marks in the same location slightly north east on the point, instead of spamming them in different places on the point to get an accurate gauge on where the theif lands, he spams them in one location.

WoW

1. Backpeddling….why?!?!..
2. For a thief to stealth down you, he is wasting a 48sec (traited) CD, just for you. Optimally, that stealth could be used for the entire team, annoying yes, OP? dont know, especially since other classes can down you with just as much cheese. Guardian block down, mesmer stealth down, ele mist form down, ranger quickness down, warrior stability down.
3. Four of you sat on a point, to try and fight a theif, while spamming skills where he was, instead of aoe’ing the point where he would be( rewatching you were spamming marks in the same place..why?). First of all FOUR OF YOU…Why in the nine hells were FOUR of you sitting on a point? it takes 2 at the most to kill one player (assuming the 2 a good and obviously your team wasnt).
4. The mesmer, while I agree that Moa is a bit much ( and before all the moa mesmers come out of the woods, I play one and I think it is a bit much). Your poor playing would have guaranteed he killed you anyway. You were at 5k health before he decided to use moa, the fact you didnt dodge or mark him during the entire fight speaks volumes of your inexperience. But I do agree, moa needs a tweak.
5. You started the fight, with a full deathshroud life bar..and you spam AoE’s?
What kills me is, its not a secret a guardian pushes people away. Why the kitten would all three of you run up to him at once to try and stomp him? It should be common sense, wait till he blows the push on 1 or 2 people, then run in for the stomp. No he didnt survive a 1v 3 because of his tankiness, he survived because his team was coordinated in sending the theif to basically finish off the squishiest target to rally, because 3 of you had kitten moment.
6. Boon heavy guardian and you didnt take any tools to deal with his boons, used an Axe, and didnt dodge, didnt ask for backup, and at 50% health decided to not go be useful at another point but stay their and basically cost your team 15 points.

During this entire video, you have one valid point, and that was moa. The rest of the video was team error, player judgement error, or just a plain lack of common sense.
Most of these issues could be solved if you got better. I would start by reading necro guides, finding some streams of a tournament team with a necro and watching its reaction and movements, finding a better build and practicing.

Mesmer is fine.
If your trying to play one like a pet class, you need to roll a class intended on having pets.

The Phantasms are not pets, they are glorified arcane blast.
You dont use a strong skill on an enemy with 1/4th of its health left in DE’s do you.

If you are having problems keeping illusions out, you need to invest 5 points in the illusions trait line and 20 points in the dueling trait line.

The mesmer isnt a pet class, and shouldnt be compared to a pet class, the mechanics of it are actually very different.

It would be great if you add, actually some spvp or Tpvp footage

Yvilthi.5413:

PlayerX.5307:

Sethren.8472:

I use it all the time. My weapon swap is between a Greatsword and a Scepter/Torch. I am a condition-phantasm mesmer, so I really like the confusion stacking quality of the scepter (and the torch’s phantasm). I get my AoE fix from the Greatsword.

The Scepter’s block ability is also very helpful when a person has run out of energy to evade, and it counterattacks for a nice chunk of damage.

Personally, I think it’s one of the best weapons a mesmer has. It’s just misunderstood.

I would love to duel you…. lol

I Use scepter pistol – Staff and i would realy like to duel you.
Nothing pleasures me more then a over-confident player tearing himself down because of my confusion stacks

We should set up a dueling party sometime tonight

Untouch.2541:

Moa morph, time warp and confusion.
I don’t know of any way to stack confusion, except underwater and downed.

For confusion stacking we have-
Illusionary Retribution, Cry of Frustration, Scepter, Chaos Armor, Blinding Beffudlement, and Confusing Enchantments.

P.S. and the Illusionary Mage

This is not true. My 1v1 condition shatter build can take out a bunker guardian. Too much boon stripping, too many clones, too much stealth. And it’s not a spec “built” to kill guardians — it’s just a 1v1 spec. And hell, I can’t even play the spec properly yet.

You will have to post me your build, in every Tpvp scenerio I have been in, its always a stalemate, and by the time Im in a position where its going good for me to kill the guardian his teammate shows up.

Never. Blink almost completely negates Thief haste openers, nevermind Distortion. It’s still a high risk of course, but haste Thieves always are.

Haste openers?
Maybe the thieves I fight are oddballs, because I havent fought one that opened with haste, but usually popped it mid fight for the kill.
( of course you have the ones that get lucky and get haste right off from the start with that trait, then its a hit and miss kinda :I)

Mesmer should time dodges and non-dodge events. E.g. no need to dodge until the opponent can already identify the real Mesmer. This is an l2p issue.

I agree but the way I interpreted what lumines wrote was that the mesmer had infinite clone generation and no down time, while this can be true it would mean the mesmer is spamming dodge, which is never a viable way to play in any pvp.

Only for Sharper Image stackers. Confusion is highly spammable and relatively short duration. Also, Mesmers are not exclusive condition -OR- power.

The mesmers I have run into are usually condit/crit, because of the ease of stacking bleeds from sharper images ( its literally a fire and forget ) or power/crit/critdam.
I have seen the occasional tanky mesmers but I have always been able to shatter burst them down

Mesmers have sufficient burst if you spec for it — and phantasm specs are NOT it.

I halfway disagree with you here.
A phantasm being able to hit for 2-3k before a shatter to me is much more useful than a phantasm hitting for 1-2k before a shatter, going as a glass cannon and speccing for both high crit/critdamage and power and grabbing the trait empowered illusions, to me seems like a better gain than to not spec for anything phantasm wise, especially when phantasms recharge just as fast as your shatters.

.

Lumines.3916:

I’ve been playing a Mesmer in tPvP for a bit now after making the switch from the Necromancer, let me tell you why they’re a notch above most classes.

The underlining thing is, there is no true counter to a good Mesmer. 100b Warriors aren’t much of a threat once you know their combo, if you can survive the Thief’s initial burst, he’s going to melt under conditions/pressure easily. All of Elementalist’s big moves are easy to dodge and move out of. Mesmers? Not so much.

A good gaurdian, heavy boon, defense specced will outlast a mesmer.
A haste spamming thief who knows what he’s doing will burst down a mesmer
Ctrl+T and you can keep a mesmer in sight for the entire fight
A dodge rolling mesmer is a clear give-away.

If you’re a Phantasm build, they need to get those down ASAP or your phantasms will kill them. If they’re spending time LoSing your iDuelist or popping him, they’re not hitting you giving the Mesmer a lead.

Or if they are not using any type of AoE’s to make phantams’s and clones pop like ballons

If you’re a condition clone spamming build, it’s extremely easy to have a huge uptime on clones and ergo bleeds(Dodge clone has no ICD), builds that pick up Debilitating Dissipation don’t mind their clones getting popped as that will hinder them too. Staff Auto-attack is your rotation and gives you Might/Fury while throwing Burns far better than an Engineer or Guardian (33% on crits or 1/5 Hits with Justice).

Easy yes, but that doesnt make you less obvious for targeting because you will be dodge rolling left and right to keep that large uptime of clones, secondly high vit, heavy boon characters like guardians, or condition immune necro’s, or heavy boon, condition immune engineers will be a stalemate for condition heavy mesmers.

Even if they don’t go for your clones and illusions, you kite better than any scholar for the matter. The only class that has you beat in mobility is the thief. It’s also impossible to fully lock down a Mesmer. You pack the most stun breaks under a minute cool down. Blink is the lowest cd ground target teleport in the game. Even IF your stun breaks are on CD, just Phase retreat away from that bulls charge. If it connected, you’d still be on the ground but the warrior is now flaying his Hundred Blades in the air. With good timing, Sword distortion and shatter distortion can reflect nasty things while leaving you scott free. And yes, you can still shatter even stun/kd’d.

Actually I dont think its possible to lock down anything 1 v 1 unless you build specifically for it, but like everything else your giving something up.
I do agree with mesmers being hard to lock down, but for a class that has no burst combo’s outside of phantasm’s I see this as a none issue. Like you stated earlier, its their uptime that is what makes mesmers hated, because we have ways to avoid death.

This is all not even considering the instant AoE boon/condition strip that is Null Field. The usefulness of Arcane Thievery, or the presence Portal can give you. Aside from Kyhlo, it’s also a useful way to get pressure on Keep lord’s door while still being able to flash back to defend the node closest to said keep.

Null field AFAIK isnt instant boon stripping. Arcane thievery is great in 1 v 1’s against something that stacks conditions very slowly, not that great vs a condition spec necro that sneezes conditions.

You’re packing the only ranged AoE pull that has no limit (Temportal Curtain) and iWarden is a gem not everyone is abusing just yet. Moa Morph is the best lock out in the game while Time Warp is the best and only AoE Quickness in the game.

I wil give you the aoe pull, because I have not used the focus outside of the speed buff, Warden is crap unless your fighting a zerg group that sits on top of eachother, or unless you specced specifically for the focus. ( which imho pistol or sword are better as off-hands)
Moa Morph has been a subject of QQ since the first BW, I honestly do hope they nerf the duration and CD, because I think its way to strong of a CC.
Time Warp I have mixed feelings about, for the CD it has I would justify its effect, especially since other classes can get this effect once every 15-60 seconds

Lastly, their downed state along with Thief’s have the most potential to delay and self bandage. The amount of time you can waste the opposing team with your downed state is a lot higher relative to other professions.

This really isnt an issue unless your trying to down a mesmer in an already losing team battle.
The mesmer is the SECOND one to appear, not the first. I thought people realized this