Guild Wars 2

shochinhwa.1648:

Solori.6025:

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

skupuz.6940:

Esrever.8613:

If they take out remove condition when you cloak, it might actually be possible to kill a competent one.

Remove warrior’s condition removal on shout, remove all condition removal on heal #6 ability, remove ele’s cleanse on water attunement, etc etc.

Give those other classes the ability to vanish and run away and we’ll call it even. :P

Lets just make all classes the same ….

Nah, just make thief the OP one that will do. And when thief can’t kill ele D/D now, let’s nerf ele so thief will remain the top.

..
Leave my ele out of this -_-

shochinhwa.1648:

Solori.6025:

shochinhwa.1648:

“Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage”. This is where the problem is, doesn’t matter what nerf/balance you do to the thief skills, if you want to maintain this design philosophy you don’t need to balance thief

No matter what change you make to thief, they will always be the masters of the 3 best things in this game now – mobility, stealth and DPS. Period.

So with this in mind….
Why are we ( forum warrior’s on both sides and in the middle of the fence) still having this same conversation every hour?

Cause we are human and we find things to argue about.

Thats aggravatingly illogical -_-

Its like the saying

" why scream if no one can hear you?"

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

skupuz.6940:

Esrever.8613:

If they take out remove condition when you cloak, it might actually be possible to kill a competent one.

Remove warrior’s condition removal on shout, remove all condition removal on heal #6 ability, remove ele’s cleanse on water attunement, etc etc.

Give those other classes the ability to vanish and run away and we’ll call it even. :P

Lets just make all classes the same ….

shochinhwa.1648:

“Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage”. This is where the problem is, doesn’t matter what nerf/balance you do to the thief skills, if you want to maintain this design philosophy you don’t need to balance thief

No matter what change you make to thief, they will always be the masters of the 3 best things in this game now – mobility, stealth and DPS. Period.

So with this in mind….
Why are we ( forum warrior’s on both sides and in the middle of the fence) still having this same conversation every hour?

Sylosi.6503:

Doomdesire.9365:

Escape comes with mobility. I think thieves should have mobility. That’s what the thief is all about. Someone who “steals”(or in this case, attacks, mugs, whatever you want to call it) and gets away. Isn’t that in the name, thief?

If we are going by what the names imply then I should have stealth on my thief, not invisibility.

I’ve been levelling a thief (now 61) to see for myself and I agree with the OP, it is not merely culling, if you take a couple of stealth traits like the +1 sec one in shadow arts, plus have a utility or two that give stealth (especailly shadow refuge) and you have the heal that gives stealth, you can chain stealths together to get quite a period of stealth, then you can get stealth on steal or stealth if you take more than 10% in a single attack.

In defensive terms it is actually better (as in more powerfuul) than permastealth in other games, because in WvW you can stealth for long enough to get away, but you can also do it multiple times, from combat nor are you knocked out of stealth by damage.

Which is a big problem, risk vs reward is a fundamental part of PvP in MMORPGs, yet the balance on my thief is completely out compared to say my enginerer or necro, if I muck up on my thief or misjudge a situation, 95% of the time I can escape, even on a low level character with often out of date gear, there is a total lack of risk, which is why there are so many glass cannon thieves running about.

On a side note, it probably doesn’t help it is a very easy class to play, you have faceroll teleports to target, faceroll evades, do really high damage with few button presses, not havng to rely on combos and that is also very easy to apply.

The class is just poorly designed, it seems devs can never learn invisibility + big burst + ability to escape is an unbalanceable failure in every game it is in.

Some things wrong with this.
Like the mesmer
If you spec to escape, you escape really easy.
this comes naturally for the theif and is almost unneccassary because
And i quote from the Dec 14th Class balance philosphy section
*Thief
* Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

I can tell you.
If you spec Defensivly you are not going to reach the high damage numbers of a glass cannon.
If you spec glass cannon your not going to carry the utilites that a defensive stealth spec would, because your maximizing everything for burst.

Victory.2879:

Seems most of the ’it’s easy to counter a thief’ answers are coming from people who mainly play THIEF. Tells you everything you need to know really.

For a lot of players being basilisked, then hit for 8k steal/mug, 6k, 6k cnd and being dead or almost dead within one second, can’t even see them while they finish you isn’t their idea of fun (with 1800 toughness and 22k hp).

I call bull on this.
Unless the thief is animation clipping which is an issue in and of itself.
As an ele with 1250 toughness and 21k hp am I survivng this, and I can react fast enough ( with caffine and a healthy balanced breakfest )to recover from this gimmick and come out on top of the situation.

But as of late people ( lol thieves) have been calling ele OP so….

Defend it all you like, but in wvw thiefs hit way too hard, have way too much space to kite away if you do manage somehow to guess EXACTLY when they are about to hit you whilst being invisible, and by the time you managed to avoid something your HP is so low you’re as good as dead anyway- as they can kite around 5/6 people all throwing aoe and swinging like mad, pop up and finish you off.

You have to be in a group of 5-6 very horrible players if none of them can catch the thief. I could forgive 2 or 3 ( if they are all melee) but not 5-6. Thier is something very wrong with that.

Ele burst
http://youtu.be/7tpWwTeyTRA

Mesmer Burst
http://youtu.be/Wr8l833Gs9I

Your quite wrong in the notion that thief is the only burst/ get away just cause , class.
Mesmers and ele’s can be just as annoying.

They don’t have much affect in the overall scheme of wvw (except when they hunt in groups of 5 or more), but they do annoy a lot of people into quitting wvw or at least contributing to them not enjoying the game and hence going to play another game which might be more fun.

And thats speaks more about the player than the game.
If someone would rather cry, and whine then get better, learn what could have been different and build accordingly then they wont pvp or wvw for very long, if ever.
Why is thier absence an issue?

Thief class I guess is where the usual ’i’m leet’ (for which read ’I’m a chicken ganker’) players go- every MMO has a class which attracts this type of player, and they will usually defend it’s OPness by saying ‘l2p’ or ’it’s easy to counter (play a thief)’.

not saying that All is good and thieves dont have problems..
Like the mesmer burst ( vid above) I think something unintentional happens when thieves combine quickness + their combo, and for the people that can actually kill you in 1 second, its because of this
http://youtu.be/LbhdsF4oEI8

and we get to one of the biggest offenders of the combo at hand.
Quickness.
The easy access for this boon, makes combo’s that do large amounts of damage over the top because now that damage happens twice as fast AND you clip the animation so that abilities happen simultaniously.

This is what people need to be attacking, this is whats killing you in 1 second, this is whats happening and why you cant react and you cant target the thief before it kills you.
Quickness.

Culling needs to be fixed
Quickness needs to be addressed
Ability clipping needs to be fixed

^
The biggest steps in the right direction will have a large impact on a lot of classes.

shochinhwa.1648:

Professor Sensei.2941:

shochinhwa.1648:

Let me get this straight, you are asking the OP to roll a thief = play a thief = WvW = Thief Wars 2. Sounds like you are supporting the OP LOL

Not really. He’s making it sound like all you see is thieves everywhere in WvWvW. This game is far from being “over run” by thieves. This constant crying about them is really getting old.

But it’s true though, I came across a guild the other day that specifically run in groups of thieves. Can’t remember the tag but it was a band of thieves. Can you imagine the fear of a single player accidentally bumped into not one thieves but a group of 5 to 8 of them! Fear!

try running into a group of ele’s

nerva.7940:

Cal.1985:

@nerva
You have no idea what you are talking about.
1. Best mobility – D/D Ele wins that fight from the locker.
2. Best burst – Warrior, Engie, Mesmer, D/D ele. Thief has one burst during which he is so vunlarble, the others not so much. And believe me mesmers can do more burst and have higher health pool from 900 range

actually, i do have an idea about what im talking about. thief has the most reliable burst in the game. youre the one without a shred of serious pvp experience.

warrior – one good dodge, a little bit of environmental awareness (just a little), and not only can he no longer apply the burst but he’s DEAD.
d/d ele – u can dodge just about every move from his chain. eles can also be crippled and cc’d because they are visible
engie – just burst him down first. he has no mobility, and he cant apply his burst.
mesmer – only in tpvp. i dont see any shatter mesmers in wvw. dont think ive seen one actually. my guildie tries to play one, and hes good, but it just doesnt work.

so it’s all about applied burst. thief has the best applied burst. next.

So, for the Ele..

Depending on the build, you may or may not be able to dodge their burst.
A lot of ele’s have figured out a build that lets them burst for 10k or so, while they are squishy during their down time ( and rightfully so) some setups cant be just dodged and CC’ed when the first moment of the encounter is a CC then a spike.

For the Shatter Mesmer-
Shatter builds can be very successful in WvW in a small group of roamers where targets can be isolated and focused either by an individual or by the team.
Like Tpvp if a shatter mes catches you in the open alone or catches you in the back of a group with little to no help.
You can and possible will be bursted down.
And a mes can start the burst chain from stealth if they choose to.

While I agree with some people about thief, like the culling or the animation clipping with quickness, a lot of the other issues are simply a L2P issue.

It really does help if you pick one up and play it, Thieves actually have some really predictable tactics that 90% of them use without fail, if you learn them, then you can counter them just as easy.

zhonnika.1784:

Last reset of 2012! Let’s try to do it without jumping in where we do not belong. Unless it’s jumping off the bridge in hills to the path below to my death. I mean, I do that at least once a reset.

Drink of choice: caffeine. it is too a drink.

Snacks: cookies \o/

I call for a t1 NYE party somewhere. A few mins to emote at each other and set off fireworks. You know, before we get back to the ritual blood killing and pvDoor. Actually this is a terrible idea that would likely result in a few sneaky people laying inconspicuous flame rams somewhere while we all e-flipped each other off, but it was a nice thought

New Year wubwub resolution: First place!!!

AHAHAHA

Yea the party idea would lead to a random team of thieves “discoing” someone to death..if you catch my drift

P.S.
I think I should mention this early on, im not on SBI atm ( im learning stuffz) so if one of you would be so kind as to screen the score I will do my best to keep the score current until my return back to my motherland

Thread for the new week

Discuss the score, wvw stuffz, favorite snacks and drinks for wvw, and reminisce about the year passing by

Negated.4105:

kittening troll or some kitten, the amount of mist forms your class has, escapes and water elemental that heals on every cast get the kitten up outta here man. kittening idiot.

I dont care what level you are, I dont care if your just lv22 dont making kittenty posts like this.

…..You have no idea what your talking about do you?…0_0

@OP

You need to get to 40, ele is actually quite challenging low levels but after that, its pretty much smooth sailing.
That being said, it requires a lot of forethought to play this class decently.

And for dungeons, I cant think of a single reason why staff would be better that S/D or D/D

but then again..

I hate staff

FourTwenty.4268:

OP, what server are you on? Are you tired of being beaten in T1 WvWvW? Is that what this thread is really about?

…Yea, I can see the op now, I mean, its fun to be fighting people in your spawn point…..

mavet.3047:

:( Welcome to SWTOR all over again… This game is REALLY turning into one stinking piece of garbage…

……………….and you necro’d this…why?

Valenna Tiefling.5806:

Also: Lower tiers have not had 90% of their players leave. For the past month, we’ve seemed to experience light population growth each week, we may hold even but we’re definitely not getting smaller. And this is coming from a “dead server” as far as the rest of you all are concerned.

I’ve noticed either people are leaving for low tier servers or they are bandwagonning in the T1 servers…

honestly though T1 is going to start seeing an exodus of players since crap like this happens

Cover Girl.2580:

I leave for 4 days and things to to hell that fast? what sort of nonsense is all of this? WM left? drama unfolds? ALL of you should feel ashamed and need to say you are sorry right now!

I honestly can’t blame them. opening night, I spent 3 hours tied up with a small team trying to stop 3-4 SOS players from a few major SOS guilds from capping the garrison while using a variety of wall jumps.. got it all frapped before anyone cries foul. Yea, we stopped talking about it on the forums since it gets modded instantly, and the other servers say we are just whining, so maybe it’s true they grew tired of it and said can’t beat them, join them. It’s totally disheartening to work so hard and spend manpower and money upgrading something only to have it taken away in 2 minutes by someone cheating. You guys know the feeling. Each of the top 3 have cheaters. We are the servers people look up to, and this is the bs we pull. I’m embarrassed for all of us. Like, I don’t even know where to begin chastising, so I’m going to log in for the first time in almost a week and see what I can sort out before deciding if I’m throwing in the towel on this.

LOL makes you wonder if Tiers actually mean anything :I

and welcome back CG

Cover Girl.2580:

I leave for 4 days and things to to hell that fast? what sort of nonsense is all of this? WM left? drama unfolds? ALL of you should feel ashamed and need to say you are sorry right now!

I honestly can’t blame them. opening night, I spent 3 hours tied up with a small team trying to stop 3-4 SOS players from a few major SOS guilds from capping the garrison while using a variety of wall jumps.. got it all frapped before anyone cries foul. Yea, we stopped talking about it on the forums since it gets modded instantly, and the other servers say we are just whining, so maybe it’s true they grew tired of it and said can’t beat them, join them. It’s totally disheartening to work so hard and spend manpower and money upgrading something only to have it taken away in 2 minutes by someone cheating. You guys know the feeling. Each of the top 3 have cheaters. We are the servers people look up to, and this is the bs we pull. I’m embarrassed for all of us. Like, I don’t even know where to begin chastising, so I’m going to log in for the first time in almost a week and see what I can sort out before deciding if I’m throwing in the towel on this.

LOL makes you wonder if Tiers actually mean anything :I

Sergo.2867:

Lalnuir.4957:

I meant does anyone on your server role play as something else when in WvW? Like that tc commander who posts in pirate talk on this forum. Does he talk like that in team chat/vent/ts/whatever???

Yes. But in WvW, it’s pretty rare. Brevity and conveying information are more important. We’re much more likely to RP when meeting in PvE, thanking someone for an assist, or forming PvE pugs.

Not true, I was fighting an invader from TC on my mes, and she RP’ed death after about 4 minutes >_>

jalmari.3906:

Well I’ve max lvl mesmer but I stopped playing it because I don’t like mesmer playstyle so much.

However. I have to say they get a little bit too much everything in PvP. Okay clones fine, shatter fine… but then they also get crazy damage from GS (check yourselves it’s crazy) plus at least some confusion dmg which is much more annoying than i.e. retaliation. Some builds also do pretty insane confusion dmg.

Greatsword damage is actually around on par with the longbow from rangers at 1200range if I remember that test correctly.

Confusion if you spec for conditions is beast, other than that its an annoying shortlived condition

jalmari.3906:

My general complaint is a bit questionably high damage output (auto attack+handy other skills) while having ton of clones to avoid damage yourself in GS builds. This is what I noted while playing mesmer myself. Not to mention pretty powerful downed state skills. I moved to mesmer after playing necro and I was pretty amazed with downed state, heh.

Just 5 cents.

Your going to notice that the mesmer has a lot better damage than the necro, and the ele has a lot better damage than the mesmer.
Its not that the mesmer is OP damage wise ( discounting the bug that we all anticipate will be fixed). Its that the necro isnt made to put out the damage of the ele or mesmer.

And the mesmer downed state < Ele Downed state :P

spartanx.1364:

I got a little Back Log here.

@The WW2 thing. Well Europe wasn’t good at regular wars haha but if they where trying to take towers and keeps from the Germans we probably wouldn’t need to interfere hehe.

I think some strategies that were co-ordinated between the brits and the alliance were brilliant, though I think the germans had superior tactics for moving around the battle field.

Also, I have noticed that BG has a LARGE, organized zerg :I, I wish more people would take initiative and form smaller squads to take supply though.

TGSlasher.1458:

You can remove all of my eles defenses if you wish (healing skills, protection, armour of earth etc), however, on that day I will be expecting our 50% damage nerf from the betas to be undone.

I miss my 5k DT’s

covenn.7165:

The reason they are crying is:

2. Even a bad player can be successful with a thief

Against another bad player

I remember when SBI’s score was like that when fighting Emry and another server I cant remember atm.
The easy days :I

Kylex.5962:

Archonis.7249:

Solori.6025:

Kirei.1792:

Archonis, almost all the top teams in eu have a thief. but why would you say that u would prefer a ele instead of a thief? i think most teams have both?

Backstab Thief isn’t really all that desired in TPvP unless you team is synergizing arouns it.
Thats what you said…
in eu its so desired. i really hope that NA will come to EU and feel what the difference
and thief is better roamer than elementalist lol. and a thief can kill certain things what ele can’t. having no thief in team fighting against full bunker class is not do able. but maybe na thiefs are bad (i don’t know it) but im getting the impression that they think really lowly of thiefs.

Most thief roamers that i have seen are used to kill the weakest link, help in point battles by picking off the squishy, or bursting the burst mesmers.
Bunkers I have seen can hold off 1 -2 people on a point wether it be a theif+ or an Ele+
Maybe its because of that fact people dont use theif roamers, because an ele can sit in combat and has a little more CC than a theif , while being just as mobile.

Yea, a Thief is great at fulfilling the word Roaming. He is very mobile and can get around the map fast, but when met with the slightest resistance you have to (most times) back off. With an Elementalist you can engage where a Thief cannot. There really isn’t a vice versa. So to me Elementalist is a better roamer than thief, simply because he can burst and has much better survivability without having to break combat and control a lightly defended point.

elementalist can go and bunker out far point after you wipe them at mid or something.
thief can 1 shot guy on far point. with my vid been the main point (only 1 thief does similar combo to this which is why it works) he can pretty much take the point off anybody.

so where as an ele would still be fighting for agessssssss until they reinforce, a thief can simply take from anybody.

depends which you find the best but actually seeing this in action id go more the thief way.. and im NOT crying for Nerfs i just wanted to see peoples opinions on this

Understandable, this is a video on why Quickness is too much, the damage and time the damage happens wouldnt happen if quickness didnt clip animations..Their in lies a problem.

Kirei.1792:

Archonis, almost all the top teams in eu have a thief. but why would you say that u would prefer a ele instead of a thief? i think most teams have both?

Backstab Thief isn’t really all that desired in TPvP unless you team is synergizing arouns it.
Thats what you said…
in eu its so desired. i really hope that NA will come to EU and feel what the difference
and thief is better roamer than elementalist lol. and a thief can kill certain things what ele can’t. having no thief in team fighting against full bunker class is not do able. but maybe na thiefs are bad (i don’t know it) but im getting the impression that they think really lowly of thiefs.

Most thief roamers that i have seen are used to kill the weakest link, help in point battles by picking off the squishy, or bursting the burst mesmers.
Bunkers I have seen can hold off 1 -2 people on a point wether it be a theif+ or an Ele+
Maybe its because of that fact people dont use theif roamers, because an ele can sit in combat and has a little more CC than a theif , while being just as mobile.

It would be nice if people actually realised that if this is fixed 20% of the QQ on the forums would go away

Dee Jay.2460:

Aldizi.5671:

I iwonder if Devs give post like these any credibility..

A single post on an MMO forum doesn’t usually mean much.

But 4 months of near constant QQ about Thieves simply cannot be ignored.

This is not an isolated issue. You can argue about the cause or what’s at the root of the issue. You can argue if burst or Stealth is more problematic. You can blame culling or Mug.

But the fact remains, for a large portion of the player base fighting Thieves is not fun.

And that is something that needs to be addressed.

It actually can and has been ignored.
If you watch the last SoTG interview with J Sharp, a lot of builds that people complain about ( like BS thieves or 100b warriors) are actually not an issue for the target audience that they balance this game around ( as was stated in the SoTG). People still for some reason believe that if they cry hard enough it will be nerfed to oblivion and unless its a bug or blatanly broken ( shatter macro, haste frame clipping) its most likely going to be met with a L2P and swept under the bus.

Khronos.7283:

i have an engineer and i am having a blast with it, i never lost one vs one this obvious since i faced this dagger elemental. i won so many duels but they were always close and fun since i faced this dagger elemental fellow; i have all kinds of survival options and a lot of damage with bomb kit and i am better when i face melees because of bomb kit( i even managed to kill multiple opponents when i am alone many times) but this guy destroyed me in like seconds, many of my abilities were on cooldown but i think they are(dagger elementals) a little bit over the top or maybe i am wrong what do i know?:)) you faced any good?

Sounds like you fought a Zerker Ele :O

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Solori.6025:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Well the thing about stealth is definitely not true. If a thief drops Shadow Refuge, after 3 seconds he can just run away from that location and still be invisible. And same the goes with their healing skill that stealths them. It removes burning, bleeding, and poison I believe, and stealths them for 3 seconds, and puts on regeneration.

In 3 Seconds for Shadow Refuge you have the option to AoE, CC, or Condition layer the area.
I cant count how many times I have been able to kill thieves from AoE chilling and Crippling a Shadow Refuge, KB’ing them out of it, or Knocking them down for someone else to AoE the area.

The only thing that will kill me in a Shadow Refuge is if I actually get knocked out of it.

Thats great, but unless you shadow refuged for an offensive attack ( something I rarely ever see a thief blow that CD for) your not going to be chased by a good player trying to control points.
The area will be pressured, to force some more damage on you.
But unless someone has a CC like mentioned available, chances are your not going to be killed trying to run away, because you just lost a point.

“Well I can just come back and burst them all over again”

Most point defenders are bunkers, your CD’s and theirs will recharge at around the same time, their endurance will be back, and now they expect you because your first attempt failed ( and it will fail against a good point bunker).

Arheundel.6451:

I cannot think of a better solution which would please all crowds from the most disgrunted to the most “elitist” thief out there.
There must be something which force tactical decisions on the average thief player, the idea of failing to kill the target should be something to strongly consider and have appropiate counter-measures in that regard.
Right now the 3s debuff is simply not enough for the target, who did manage to avoid the burst, to retaliate accordingly and punish the thief who failed the attack.
It’s time for the thief class to fully realize the importance of toughness and the consequence of not having any, a 10s debuff should be more than enough to “punish” the average thief, the skilled ones should still be able to avoid dmg for that 10s…after all they’re skilled right?!
The increase in debuff timer would solve any culling and lag problems too , really Anet what are you waiting for?

How about they fix culling first. ( though if your still having a problem with this it may be your PC, after the latest fix the did back in november (?) I havent had an issue with them rendering in spvp).
Buff other specs for the theif like poisons, or traps
Then increase the revealed debuff to 5 seconds.

Steal needs to act like a normal que’d power.
The problem with steal is that you can use it to clip animations as if it were an arcane wave, another skill that can be used simultaniously with others.

Basically, to use steal, the power animation for what ever you precast needs to complete itself, then steal fires off.

That seems to be a reasonable compromise in a pvp environment

Soul.5947:

3- thief movement speed 50% while in stealth so if you can tell me you can predict and kill a toon with max movement speed and invisible which is also trying to run away from you i would like to congratulate you on being to awsome

I havent seen many theives with this trait since its buff, maybe they are prominent in WvW where getting around the map is key, in spvp, the ones I mainly see are specced to do max damage.
Even then, if your chasing a theif around the map your not helping your team by giving up a point or being away from it, and in worst case scenerio’s being baited into a losing situation where the theif will turn around and pressure you till he can burst you back down.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Well the thing about stealth is definitely not true. If a thief drops Shadow Refuge, after 3 seconds he can just run away from that location and still be invisible. And same the goes with their healing skill that stealths them. It removes burning, bleeding, and poison I believe, and stealths them for 3 seconds, and puts on regeneration.

In 3 Seconds for Shadow Refuge you have the option to AoE, CC, or Condition layer the area.
I cant count how many times I have been able to kill thieves from AoE chilling and Crippling a Shadow Refuge, KB’ing them out of it, or Knocking them down for someone else to AoE the area.

CarelessKrow.8032:

Solori.6025:

zhonnika.1784:

Solori.6025:

Man its hectic.
JQ seems so violent today :I

We’re all secretly grinches

If you let us have half of your borderland we can bring you presents <_<….

and onions >_>

But we’re grinches. Grinches don’t like presents.

:(
Can we has your borderland anyway <_<

Zero Requiem.5908:

Fine, then balance it so that ALL pull moves need line of site

I got one better

make all AoE’s need a target and make them Line of Sight..
Seriously though

If you dont like being pulled

Dont stand at the edge of a keep
If you find it a must to be at the edge of a keep, then be prepared to get pulled, or AoE’d.

zhonnika.1784:

Solori.6025:

Man its hectic.
JQ seems so violent today :I

We’re all secretly grinches

If you let us have half of your borderland we can bring you presents <_<….

and onions >_>

HeeHee.5208:

Thief has to be the most complained about class in GW2’s history so far!

Until Arenanet implements an effective solution for thieves which both parties can agree to, then I can almost guarantee based on the last couple to a few months of consistent thieves are relatively strong threads / posts, that we will continue to see more of them moving forward.

I too want to see less QQ about the thief and to achieve that, ironically, both sides need to continue raising the issues with Arenanet until it realizes that they are important issues for lots of players which we want to be resolved ASAP.

Keep it up!

At least until someone from Arenanet acknowledges the problems at hand, and that it is working towards a ‘permanent’ solution.

Hopefully, it will come sooner than later!

If A-Net continues with their balance philosphy of small changes and needed changes, then the backstab build people are complaining about will not be fixed.
The haste combo ( or macro) is probably going to be looked into because it breaks animations.

Here’s a hint to everyone though.
If after 4 months of crying the devs have done NOTHING to BS. That should be a clue that they dont listen to dramatic tears

Man its hectic.
JQ seems so violent today :I

Advent.1387:

TyPin.9860:

I basically disagree with the first post in this thread (as layed out earlier by other posts and my own). But some posts paint an unfair picture too. The Mesmer ain’t that weak, as some describe it. Yes we die quickly if we run out of illusions and yes, we do not deal 2k dmg with each single hit. But do we need to?

I actually had to rework my Mesmer for WvW purposes and wanted a build that works in PvE as well as WvW and I believe I found that for me. Relying on phantasms do deal direct dmg and apply bleeding and clones to also cause bleeding and fuel my shatters I am very pleased with the performance of the mesmer. I still struggle sometimes, but after 2 weeks of constant training in different WvW situations and tweaking my gear to the stats I desire, I find myself quite effective in both PvE and WvW.

Often switching my weapons, to get the most out of it, and using different weapons for WvW and PvE I think that the Mesmer (in the right hands) is very powerfull but not overpowered. Maybe there are some issues to be dealt with (clones not breaking target is one of them imho), but for the most part the Mesmer is fine as it is atm and I love playing that profession.

If only more people realized that =P Mesmers are not over powered they just have a play style that most players are not used to dealing with so they QQ and beg us to be nerfed into the ground. It takes a lot of work to be a good mesmer.

The only thing that will be looked at is shattered strength, and people abusing the F1→f2 shatter with the same clone to get an extra 9 stacks of might.

Zero Requiem.5908:

1.) make it so you HAVE TO HAVE line of site for the pull to work

or

2.) make it so it can not pull you off of siege

You got pulled and decided to make a post with your suggestion so you can stand at the ledge and be safe instead of positioning yourself and being aware enough to not get pulled…

Would you like to add in some thief QQ..

Maybe some warriors are to strong with a hint of nerf ele?

Kirei.1792:

Archonis, i agree on some parts and on some parts i don’t. im not a 70 % cake player, i know what im talking about, i play paids like almost every day and in top 10 of qp.
first of all… i play a thief as my main.
second, i actually hit 80 % of my burst to all the players, and 20 % that misses are at random dodges.
and imagine this, ur fighting at keep as a guardian, and i come. u think u can always dodge me? i doubt. and if u say thiefs are easy avoidable with haste then u probaly have just faced 90 % of the noob thieves like all others. and 10 % wich u rarely see.
And… gg warriors,mesmers,thiefs,necromancers,elementalist,guardians,rangers that get 1 shot if ur glasscannon lol and u don’t even need to be a glasscannon to get 1 shot.
and i might be just 1 of the “elitist” and if u say that i don’t know what im talking about then ok.
but in theory u might be right… but practically UGHH so hard toooo hard.
but if Anet removes thief 1 shots then i don’t know what their usefull for.

And now people are getting to the real root of the problems.
Thief Damage is fine, Warrior damage is fine.

Its power clipping, Rendering, and the effects of Haste that make a lot of classes seem like they are way out of line.
Make quickness a little less potent, fix power clipping. Should be at the top of A nets to do list.

zone.1073:

Make portal a PvE only skill.

I agree with this.

dreztina.4820:

These posts are always filled with so many imaginary numbers.

But ya, this is why my d/d ele runs a full suit of zerker’s armor. Ele’s don’t tank, we avoid damage. If we get focused, we die regardless of what we are wearing. So what is the point of giving up a huge amount of damage for survivability you won’t even use?

Better Question,
How much damage do you do when your dead.

Loco.4561:

You won’t find any sympathy I’m afraid. aNet aren’t interested in talking about this broken profession (they know thieves are broken, but the can’t fix them) and thieves will just swarm in here and defend their OP profession to the death. Just do what everyone else is doing and roll a thief.

They could fix them, if they were in fact broken.
But a bunker Ele shouldnt have a hard time with a theif, unless everything you have is on CD or your in the middle of fighting something already.
The ele has too many tools to deal with this gimmick build in a 1 v 1.

DJRiful.3749:

I’m a bunker Ele and I’m downed so quickly by a glass cannon Thief who just burst 22399 dmg under 10 seconds excluding the Wolf bite me at the end. The red text “not enough energy” is where I went downed and spamming those heal abilities.

Not enough energy usually indicates a failed dodge,

but even still what were you doing during the entire time you were fighting the theif, what is your trait setup, why are you using signet of air =_=, why is your health at 18k.
What happened during the 10seconds that this thief resorted to auto attacking you to death.

Columba.9730:

Actually most classes don’t have that kind of burst potential.

I can name 4 others besides this class :I

Draw.7529:

Ugh, I knew this would happen. You guys are missing the point, so I’ll have to explain everything else since you talk about everything but the intended situation.

- I said no cry intended. I’ve never lost a 1v1 fight against a thief until now. Altho this wasn’t much of a fight. I just wanted to know what happened here, because this damage was way too suspicious to me. I’m not asking for tutorials or anything too.

- That ranger. He was low lvl, I used every greatsword skills. It’s normal to a guardian take someone down with that. He was distracted and took all the skill. It’s a balanced weapon since you can kite pretty well (it’s slow attack move, slow spinning but strong dmg). STILL, this wasn’t the point. He was low lvl anyway.

- I’m not glassy. It’s like you didn’t read my stats. All I’m missing is having vit/tough on my armor instead of precision/tough. Everything else, including runes and trinkets are vit/tough.

- I didn’t see the thief, still not the point. I know I was heading to a zerg group and I was probably going to die, just trying to take one with me, or distract them. Still not the point.

- @Solori.6025 – How would I react fast on this situation? I used Save Yourselves, and I also blocked one attack. I tried to heal. It’s all there in slowmotion.

The problem here, is no matter what. I could be distracted, I could be aware on a 1v1 situation, I could be in a group or not. There was nothing to do here. He just teleported and killed me in 1 second with NO CHANCE of doing anything.
What? If I was able to tank that, everything else he’d do would be low damage? I don’t think so. If with all my defense traits, a class can still 3 hit kill. I don’t think this is right.

You react fast the same way everyone else reacts fast, its a matter of keybinding things to be easily accessible and not panicking.
You had time to react, you just didnt, for what ever reason.
You also should try building bunker.. With more Vit and toughness..

My ele is sitting at 21k hp with full vit/power trinkets and gear and doesnt take nearly the astronomical damage you took in 3 seconds from one source

Mechanix.5719:

Archonis.7249:

Mechanix.5719:

Hey at least he wasn’t “perma stealth” and tbh that deer did alot of damage but in all honestly that was just a GC thief you would have died anyway since you pretty much charged a zerg but one thing you did wrong was running away from the thief NEVER run away you give him the best chance to Back stab and tbh if you gonna go toughness go full tank since in this game there isnt really a in between

You can run away from us, but always be aware where the thief stealthed and not run towards it like this guardian did.

hang on im a thief player too im not trying to take a shot at the thief he also saw the thief and ignored it and ran straight for the ranger

He also got hit by basalisk, and stood in the same spot after getting out of it, he had a good second in a half to roll, pop aegis, pop his heals, and start over fighting the theif.
Since he puts out enough damage to 100%-1% someone in 3 seconds.

Draw.7529:

Hi. I don’t mean to cry or anything, that’s why I came to this section of the forum to ask you what’s the logic on this situation I recorded here by mistake. I should have checked the combat log but at that time I didn’t really care until I’ve re-watched what happened.

So, I’m not the tankiest Guardian, but I think I have a pretty good defense. Could have more, but I could have a lot less, and not to mention, what if I wasn’t even a Guardian in this situation.
I have 30 toughness, 20 vitality/healing power. Knight armor (tough), soldier runes (tough/vit), and tough/vit trinkets

Still, one Thief alone, was able with only three hits, deal this damage in this order:
4410dmg, 4651dmg, 7344dmg.

How is this even possible? I repeat, no cry intended. Just studying the situation.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFvDU22TL_4

Looking at it,
You didnt react fast enough.

From my ele’s PoV, when Im alert and notice damage like that I immediatly hit either lightning flash, or mist form.
Im down usually 4k, but my chances of survival are better.

You could have used F3, after save yourselves, dodged then used your signet, then f2
you would be down a bit, but in a better place than standing still, spamming your heal, and getting backstabed.

You also may want to build a guardian as a bunker spec.
A Guardian shouldnt take that much damage EVER

Rhyis.7058:

xmikey.6051:

I imagine that this thread will get blasted as “you are in pvp” but camping a spot in the middle of a jump puzzle where the other player cant fight back is not pvp. It is griefing. There is no skill involved in pulling a player off a ledge and burning them down from a cliff.

I am going to call out the Ele and Thief duo from guild tag [mds] as the most notably griefers. Its sad.

That’s all.

I loled at the pic..

nice

@OP

If they are causing you problems at a jumping puzzle in WvW…why not go out into the world, help you server be productive in taking the map, then when forces are freed up and the map is secure..you go back to the JP with friends?

Doesnt that sound logical?

Nuked.2360:

SBI fell under the HoD syndrome again what a night!

Speakin of…

Thank you everyone from Jade Quarry for camping the JP’s

I love you all.

Now maybe people that get camped on my server will try and do something productive on the map <_<

Akiko.2364:

I would just like to be able to so something more than give 2 -3second buffs and DPS.

And as an ele you can.

You can destroy projectiles, grant aura’s to allies, create water fields, CC the enemy, apply conditions to the enemy, provide some off healing to allies, create combo fields, and use blast finishers to help you allies ( assuming that one of them put down a water combo field you can heal them around you with that.).

As an ele you can do pretty much do everything.
Support, DPS, and Tank.

All in the same build.

What you cant do is hold someones hand.

Volomon.9147:

wookie slayer.4259:

GW2 is not for gamers it is a CASUAL SANDBOX of an MMO there is nothing to keep people who like challenges other than how long can I grind.

It’s definitely not a sand box that’s an insult to all those sand boxes out there.

I too am use to being a healer and a buffer, but I assumed that these things would not be needed. They are needed, the mechanic of falling to the ground and needing to be picked up constantly makes everyone in the game feel like a failure. That’s not heroic. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should do something and in this case I believe this game still needs healers and buffers or at least improve everyone’s survivability.

I hate the fall down mechanic down because I see it as a crutch for the game. A quick solution to getting rid of trinity.

I actually disagree with the need for healers, and I agree with downed state being a crutch.

Given the way the game is now, with everyone having a means to heal themselves, mitigate damage, and avoid damage. It is up to the player to make smart descisions to come out of a fight.
You cant dodge role every time you see a random attack, you cant run into a group of dungeon mobs alone and expect to tank, and you cant sit back, and stand in place and expect to be carried through any type of content like other MMO’s.
Getting ride of dedicated healing( by dedicated healing I healing that is able to outheal burst dps or dps from multiple sources) it has forced people to play the game to survive.
Its forced people to be aware of boss situations ( dodges, healing, blocking, etc.)

If you make a build that has no defense.
Your going to die, often.
If you make a build that at least has some defensive utilities or weapon moves
You will do fine as long as you pay attention and play the game.

Snowy.9580:

Raf.1078:

Play how you want to, but there is no actual “need” in GW2 for 1/3 of the Trinity.

.
The down side of it all is the fact that even with guildies and being a social person that wants to play with others the dps only thing isn’t much fun in dungeons where it soon becomes “Kitten you all, your on your own! I’m looking after number 1!” …How friendly! Nobody cares, and it’s making player look selfish and greedy (imo).

I actually like it that way
why should other people be forced to take care of someone else?
Isnt that kinda selfish " needing" to be looked after constantly by others?