Guild Wars 2

Retrospek.4583:

“Also WoW rogues only took damage from AoEs while stealthed whereas everything damages a thief while in stealth in this game(as long as you are in range). Not to mention channeled skills still doing damage to stealthed thieves whereas in WoW this was not possible.” – Sureshot

Funny you say that all skills that hit thieves in this game while stealth… Yes, you’re right, if they were channeled BEFORE they went stealth they do hit them (which often happened in WoW as well, played a rogue there myself), but try channeling a non-AoE skill and hitting something you can’t target nor see.

Amazing what length OP classes will go to, to defend broken mechanics.

Auto attacking the area with a skill that can hit in melee range or has a pathed projectile like dagger ele’s will still hit the thief.

Though if a thief wants to run away from you nothing you do will catch him unless you started channeling before stealth.
OR get really lucky with a an immobilize or a CC

Henrik.7560:

Thieves are overpowered, only mesmers can fight them since they can stealth too, and send their clones in as a decoy for the huge burst damage.

If your bad thieves are OP.

My ele can destroy GC thieves and Condi thieves dont even phase me anymore.

Arheundel.6451:

If they nerf the heal, those who didn’t play a bunker build will be forced in playing one..or what will be left of it, the healing may be too strong with high healing power but those healing skills are barely decent when you’ve got no healing power at all.

Nerf that and those few eles who used to run balanced build will see their already low survivability to drop to 0 literally and those who won’t drop the game will simply move to what will be left of the bunker build.

They need to buff things instead then constantly nerfing what is left after every nerfing patch, they nerfed scepter so much that people started using staff…then they nerfed staff so much that people started using d/d…now they’ll nerf d/d and people will simply leave the game…GG Anet

Then something needs to be done about the scaling power of heals.

Cause right now the heal’s ele can dish out by investing in healing power are the best in the game, because of their frequency.

Little things are stacking up with big rewards.
Little things need to be changed little by little to see what shifts.

I think a small nerf to evasive arcana’s heal before tampering with all the others would be a good start, then we can see what shift’s in the meta.

No one wants a repeat of scepter during beta, and even A-net has expressed their desire to do small changes.

Remember back in august through november it was something like.

Mesmer/Guardian
Theif
Engi/warr
Necro
Ele/ranger.

My how the meta has changed LOL

Soyboy.3548:

Shanks R Us.2489:

Sorry, but you run out of tickets if you run paids all day.

LOL what about those of us who work 40 hrs a week, go to the gym, and have friends that don’t play video games? Guess we just have to deal with you people who play all day with no job or obligations.

Now your getting it.

Glad we all understand eachother

/thread

Step 1:
1. I can follow the heal nerf NOT the radius nerf, Heals for the Ele are pretty high, BUT main reason for this is also because everyone is usually 30 in water or stacking heal power.

You may be punishing burst builds by lowering the heal value, but leaving it as is, is too much.

2. And what will be given in return for a massive nerf to this trait?
Ele’s already have few builds, nerfing them to pidgeon hole them into non viable builds isnt the way to go.
I would be for removing vigor, but something has to be given back for a nerf that cuts like this.

3. I would be all for this, if they.
A. Increased the radius, damage, and lowered the proc time on shatterstone.
B. Put stacking vulnerability on the water Auto-attack from scepter.

If your going to take away the healing by a third, compensate with something.

Scepter is already a horrible weapon outside of bunkering, it doesnt need to be made worse for every build.

Step 2.

1. I can live with 5 seconds.
But the 1000 range is not needed.
5 seconds increased CD is plenty, and wont break the skill any.

2. I wouldnt nerf the trait, switch this trait into a grandmaster trait
make cleansing water a 25 point and make bountiful power the grandmaster.
With that moved you would have the following choice.
Either you choose damage or you choose team utility with aura share.
Sounds like a good trade

3. This doesnt do anything but hurt every build the ele has.
Arcane prescision also doesnt work.
So your breaking builds, and trading traits that dont work.
NO.

My suggestion to add to this.
Nerf the passive per-cast healing on signet of restoration, but increase the healing on activation by 30%.

Most people dont even run any points into earth but still bunker with this signet becasue the heal per cast + water attunement and cleansing wave x2 heal is basically equal to its heal on activation, and you can continue to heal substantially every 9 seconds just by casting and attuning to water.

aaron.7850:

You are all talking from a zerg point of view, and frankly I dont think balancing should be studied from a zerg vs zerg perspective. Everyone either dies because of AOE spam or dont die because its so easy to rez downed people, add culling into the mix, its a very frustrating experience.

Zerg vs zerg is not fun, and should not be incouraged any further. Now, from a small group VS small group perspective, confusion is indeed overpowered, and as I said before it was adjusted for SPVP (perhaps a bit too harsh), but it should be adjusted in wvwvw as well since many of us small-group roamers end up in 1v1-5v5 situations, just like in spvp.

if i remember correctly.
Wasnt confusion buffed for pve-
and doesnt WvW use pve rules

I dont recall it ever being toned down just for spvp, just that it was too weak in pve.

Secondly, in small scale combat even 1 v 1 combat.

Confusion isnt a big deal.
If you have condition removal, good players in your group, and know how to fight a mesmer.

Kelo.4370:

Veil is a problem and nothing you or anyone else says can overshadow that problem.

I would gladly trade a line veil for a 60s shadow refuge.
Since that wont happen..

You going to be really sad since veil is going to be this way for a looooong time

^_^

Oglaf.1074:

Kellhus.8071:

Except that the D/D build in question puts out no damage.

The ONLY thing a D/D ele has that makes people mad is RTL, and it’s because it’s a ridiculously good escape for when things are going south. Not a single other aspect of a D/D ele, in a bunker build, cannot be replicated by another class.

If Eles didn’t have RTL, there would be zero complaints about the class.

I assume you mean “burst” when you say “damage”. It doesn’t matter really matter; you win by attrition. You zip in and out, switching between attunements to heal/cc or do damage. You will win, eventually. Especially against a class like Warrior who can’t disengage.

Well take an ele vs a guardian

or ele v theif

or ele v mes

or ele v trap ranger

Every month something new gets added to the OP roster.

First thieves
the warrior
then mes
then guardian
then ele
and now ranger

I bet next month we will have a massive Q Q about engineers and their one shotting grenade spec.

Confusion is a problem in Zergs, because people dont pack condition removal, dont pay attention, and are generally not concerned about their own well being, just the bags.

In small scale fights, confusion isnt a problem.
You dont have 4 mesmers using glamours to stack confusion and 3 necro’s spreading every condition under the sun to 30 people.

Stop running in a zerg with no condition removal.
And stop blindly auto attacking into a feedback bubble with confusion.
Problem solved.

^ Totally is a pancake

moolie.5927:

I can’t believe the T2 thread for this week’s matchup is at 1k replies.

Its cause they has have funny forum games and discussions.

and less QQ
o and smexy score updates..

Here’s my healing build..
Pretty good when fighting 1 v 1 agaisnt condition spec’s

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1|8.1a.h19.8.1a.h1j|0.0.0.0.0.0|1a.7z.1a.7z.1a.7z.1a.7z.1a.7z.1a.7k|1p.61.1p.64.1p.64.1n.64.1n.64.2u.d1d|0.k15.0.k59.u54b|e

So I wanted to say thank you to the Condi-Mesmer I dueled.
I learned and tweaked a lot for my build

Xelnok.2397:

It’s kind of sad how uninformed and ignorant people are in this thread, whether you argue for or against confusion at least stick to facts instead of made up numbers.

And to the eles complaining; confusion mesmers are your counter just like dd eles are thieves counter, (and Tbh it’s really really hard to kill a good dd ele with confusion)

I actually disagree with the counter.
Ele’s have too many ways to remove conditions and too good of healing to worry about it.
While it may be a counter to bunker;s who spec mostly toughness.
People running magi gear, with healing power will outheal and out cleanse a confusion stacking mes.
You wont kill them though, but you will survive them

Obsidian.1328:

Jayne.9251:

Dark Revan.7634:

Jayne.9251:

Your commanders await!

Which one were we again? :S

Ya’ll haven’t claimed any yet .. which is why they look that way …

John McEnroe John McEnroe John McEnroe John McEnroe John McEnroe John McEnroe

George Takei

Andele.1306:

Or just give bigger zoom out (like on the dragon fights) while in lich form and fix its projectile angle?
Also Its in the top 10, but best elite is and will be moa till nerf.

if you still think Moa is the best elite you should play the game moar :I

What I started doing as a mesmer to counter condition thieves is go with a reflect on focus, and reflect on distortion.

Though my build is a hybrid, i dont know if you have room in your build to put 20 points in the inspiration line.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW8dlwzKqHTToGbNJyJFQ3yhqQ3RSRrpalUMbXIA;ToAg0UXZuSclVG3VyrWjM+Y/B

(copy and paste link)

Thats what im running.

Thief comes in- starts hitting me with pistol.
I dodge rolle the first C&D, and bait a steal +C&D
When he stealths, I have 2 clones up
I lay down curtain, returning the initial barrage, then I summon my warden and kite with staff around it while it whirls.
Then I play with its head.
Using mass invis and shattering, dodging and summoning another clone and a phantasm.
The thief will C&D a clone, and wait, until i reappear.
I take the 1.5k and heal to remove it, switch weapons and lay down another curtain after he C&D’s a clone.
This usually repeats until the theif either nearly kills himself from taking his own bleeds and shatters or he gets help and I bail.

You probably wont kill him, because thieves are really good at escaping in open world combat, but you will force him to leave the area and seek easier prey,

Seige.4862:

And here I am, to tell of a story.
I was engaged in small group combat, just a half hour ago.

Against three invaders trying to ninja through our garrison’s water gate.
And no, this is not a 3v1 story where I talk about how awesome I am at pvp

At one point during the fight, I notice I’m taking heavy damage everytime I do anything.
OH LOOK AT THAT,
10 stacks of confusion.

So I’m faced with this choice.
In this 3v1 situation, do I keep mashing buttons until I die or do I try to take the advice of everyone in this thread and just stop attacking for 3 seconds?
I decided to make an example out of the situation, so I turned away from them and ran for 3 seconds exactly.

Did I die?
Yes
Very few decent players would allow a mesmer 3 seconds of freedom. Unless they blinked which was another conf hit, stlhed another conf hit, or CA.

Moral of the story?
You fought some baddies :P

O O i has a story..

I went into WvW and was fighting a ranger.
It one shot me and /laughed as it walked away..

See..

Storys are fun.

fishergrip.4082:

Junkpile.7439:

Stability needs nerf too.

Not really. You can still cripple, chill and immobilize someone with stability. It is good to provide away to avoid being stunlocked.

and you can remove confusion…

I dont understand why this is an issue with the abundance of condition removal classes can get.
Theirs even a sigil now that transfers conditions to your target.

Human Female named Solo

daydream.2938:

Mesmers and thiefs have a high initial skill curve.
I find in people rank 1-10 these classes cause the most trouble and often defeat people.

AS you get higher into more competitive play (like joining paid tounries instead of hotjoins) you get more and more players who know how to counter and beat them.
I see engineers/thiefs beat mesmers at a reasonable ratio. also vice versa.
Necros/rangers/eles tend to win the bulk of there fights vs mesmers.
Warriors, not soo good against mesmers for the most part (skill equal).

If you want the ‘eastiest’ class to fight against mesmers, roll a trap ranger. Skill being equal a trap ranger will beat a shatter mesmer 90% of the time, if not more in a 1on1 if thats the concern.

The issue withe mesmer (and thief) isnt that they are OP. its that they punish mistakes hard, good playres make less mistakes and so the class levels out alot vs them.
Nobody is arguing mesmers arent a good class, they certainly are. But, i just dont find them anything special to deal with.
Eles and trap rangers give me more trouble than mesmers any day.

And a question for you day.
How did you get better against mesmers?

Sartori.1960:

Okay, heres little old me running around trying to get map completion done in WvW. I think its hilarious that I get zerged by 10-20 people that chase me down and kill me.

Would some explain why I matter that much?

No one on the other side knows that your just their for world completion.
And you cant say that to them ( and they wouldnt believe you anyway )

For all we or they know, your running around killing dolyaks, supply starving keeps.

Tmanly.8517:

Risking making this thread so lets have some good posts and good fights in the week to come

…the matches havent been reset have they ? :I

I am at work soooo…
yea…

Arheundel.6451:

daydream.2938:

Umm . Dude, i kill good mesmers all the time. And if your a ranger a mesmer is joke to kill or least force to run.
Ele should also win 1on1 vs mesmer nearly all the time.

A mesmer who knows where the interrupt button is…won’t lose easily( if at all) against an ele, if I can interrupt an ele healing 24/7 with a 1.5s daze skill animation ( comet), I believe a mesmer can interrupt an ele with zero effort using all its daze skills which take 1/2 time animation…but again we’re talking about decent mesmers

you cannot interrupt an ele who switches attunements and dodge rolls every 9 seconds.
As a shatter mesmer you do not have all the tools to remove the easy and abundant boons they will put up every 3 seconds
And you have to build your mesmer specifically for dueling a bunker to handle a pure bunker 1 v 1.
and even then the match can go either way.

You heavily underestimate an ele’s ability to heal and manage boons.

This isnt the bugged mesmer we are talking about that could get 20might stacks in 3 seconds

Sand Beagle.9867:

If it hasnt already been done, i think it is time for the top guilds and players to form a [NEW] guild to help with the learning curve problem.
Their first (and second huehue) rule should be: Talk to everyone about [NEW]
The third rule: No hotjoins, evar, period.
:)

I think it would be cool as a community to start a guild called [NEW]

I wish their was a way to have custom chat channels, cause then we could start a pvp channel for the community where new people could come in, ask questions, ask for help via duels or team games ( cause we do have 5 v 5 now), and get to know everyone in the pvp community

Sand Beagle.9867:

Solori.6025:

When someone wants to get better, they take advantage of ways to get better.
They formulate, they create,they test, they grow.

and they ask for help.

And I and many others offer ways to help, by giving them strategies that work, referring them to guides of builds, posting the builds we use, streams,telling them to roll the class and do a few spvp games , and if requested duel in an empty spvp room.( some of my guild mates have done this and they are soo much better for it).

The knowledge is all here if you try and look for it.

I know very few respectable pvp’ers that turn down the chance to help a newbie who actually wants to get better.
Like was said earlier, a lot of people that believe themselves “pro” because they smashed their face on keys and won with a gimmick build are also the ones telling people to L2P and not offer anytype of help whatsoever.
No one should care for those people, and im sorry to whoever has the misfortune of meeting said players.

But in every community you have a grinch and a troll.

( I like onions)

NaturalPortman.9562:

I don’t even know why Java was invited to the state of the game, clearly he’s looking out for his own kitten and his “not op” ranger trap spec lol.

You know whats OP…

Dem slick shoes….

hooma.9642:

u realize that nearly all class guides are about how to play a certain build and not how to beat a certain build with a certain build?

Ok, lets say someone fights you with your exact class, your exact build, and your exact playstyle.

You would automatically know what they are doing, what build they are, and why they do certain things because you have experience, you have played the class.
You have some aspect of Foreknowledge.

Thats what I and many others tell people with issue’s that are class and build related.
Play the class, get experience with the class, watch others with experience with the class, read about different builds and why it works with the class.
When you have the knowledge of a class, when you know its inner workings, its strenghts and weaknesses.
You, by yourself will learn how to counter
You, through research and experience will grow to be a better pvp’er.

This is how those people that were and are at the top got their.

Why is it hard for people who want to be better to do the same, especially since it has gotten easier with the availability of guides,streams, and youtube vids?

people at the top didnt have streams to watch, nor did they have youtube vids, and the majority of people during this games infancy only had theorycrafted, untested builds.

They didnt get better overnight, but they tried.

THEY TRIED AND LEARNED.

ur example was pretty bad, cause it was only against a small problem i even did not ask for and isnt a valid answer how to beat xxxx as yyy. even if AOE dont get nerfed so hard. and yes every class has something, but something is the problem why qq are coming.

You dont know the workings of the class, how do you know then if my example was bad or not?
I gave you a strategy that has worked since beta- AoE-

I dont think I need to answer why people QQ do I?

i dont talk about mid tier players who has figured something out or high tier players. i talk about newbies, that most likely start to qq.. for them its no even valid to watch streams esp if they dont has a team to run with. so the stream will be likely in 95% of the time dont show them to beat something they struggle with.. its a complete timewaste.

The newbs that have a desire to get better usually dont come to the forum to QQ.
Key word is desire

When someone wants to get better, they take advantage of ways to get better.
They formulate, they create,they test, they grow.

Same thing every mid and high tier player did.

yes u could tell what to do.. but the game doesnt tell the ppl what the enemy does..

This game has some of the most overdramatic visual que’s i have seen in a long time.

I could understand people that are half blind, but for the majority of others that isnt the case.
And something the devs stated in a blog during beta
This game wont have cast bars you have to watch, instead your eyes should be focused on the enemy in game.
Its why the elementalist Pheonix skill from beta was nerfed visually to this unimpressive bland bird ( my opinion on it, others may love this new version)

so as summary i can understand that ppl think its the responsibility of the newbs to inform and learn. but then i cant understand that ignorant about the issues of the newbs and just always anser its l2p or crash suggestions that some ppl do to improve the learning for newbs.

Im all for helping people learn, but i refuse to spoon feed.
If im putting forth the effort to help someone deal with a build by giving them my build, explaining how it works and dueling them in one of the many empty 5 v 5 rooms in spvp, I expect that same person to put forth the effort to learn why and how it works, and what they can do.

That can only be done with research and experience.
Something that every player has the capability to do.

in the moment i think Sand Beagle is completly right. they want to stand on the top on one side but on the other side they act like they want a competition. if u want competition u has something to do, that consist more of throwing “l2p” in some posts or write u must do that or that. the complete fight consists of animations, thats why teaching vids are needed and if the “elites” really want competition and they need to do more than actual.

take this example, since we are talking about competitive sports.
Do you know what football teams do to counter plays?
They watch the play, and they watch for the signs of weakness within that play, then they scrimmage amongst themselves and test counter plays, and during that time the coaches and the team learn the signs for that play and what can be done to counter it.

the same thing applies to GuildWars or any MMO.

Khyras.8021:

You only type to put down people who fight to have a better pvp for solo/casual players? I see.

If I wanted to put you down I would first insult your intelligence, Tell you how stupid the idea of solo ques were, make random sweeping generalizations, call you kitten every 3 paragraph, and then proceed to say how you need to get better with the casual and obligatory " L2P""LOLOnoob""get a better team on my lvl lol" crap that I see from people who love to troll.

No I simply stated that you shouldnt speak for a population of people, especially when its wrong.

Try not to be so defensive

I see, from your typing english isnt your first language, so I’m going to try and respond as best as possible

hooma.9642:

u dont understand it, i dont asking here for anything special. if u read the last two posts about mesmer or any posts about helping spvp by decreasing someting or implement something there a some posts of “elites” that has said explanations would help newbies and the ppl that qq against something.

so rather than jumping in threads where ppl qq against some build they just could make a vid of explanation how to beat it for the newbs to get a better competitive pvp communitity or just stay away from the threads than always yada yada its a “l2p”…
there is a difference between low and top tier. so i asking the top tier to tell the low tier how to beat build XX to improve the community, help the balance and getting more ppl to start growing in higher tier.

I could tell you what to do, and you would come back and say it doesnt work.
I could show you what to do, and you would still come back and say it doesnt work.
It has been a cycle that has continued since MMO’s introduced pvp. In some cases, what is said is false, and in others it works, but people dont comprehend how, and it never works for them, so they form the opinion that it wont work.
This is evident by the countless QQ threads that have spawned in this forum about 100b warriors, BS thieves, Guardians, Mesmers, and now Elementalist.

So then comes the response of doing research and EXPERIENCING the game from both your classes perspective and the class that gives you trouble.

watching boring long stream as recommend from that “elites” is clearly no option.. there is soooo much boring stuff and 99.999999999% never ever an explanation in the streams why they dont some and what they do.

Watching Streams is plenty viable, if you have a basic understanding of the game.
You start understand team composition,movement, changing situational power choices, etc.

But this doesnt come from just watching streams, you need to get your hand on the character and play it.

and btw saying “AOE is your friend” when fighting xxx is somehow stupid ikittennow AOE gets nerfed soon

You either dont know, or dont comprehend the power of AoE’s and how meaningless a nerf to them would be vs clones.
This is an example of what I was talking about, I tell you how counter a small problem, you say its stupid cause its gettin nerfed. While if you had actually picked up a mesmer you would know the auto attack from a staff guardian 1-2 shots clones,
Mighty blow one shots them and it can be used every 5 seconds
burning speed one shots clones

Pretty much every class in the game has a way to hinder a mesmer’s damage and defense in some form.
Unless they nerf AoE’s to do 30 damage, which realistically wont happen, you have a way to stop a clone factory, and limit major damage that could be done to you.

If you had picked up the class and learned more about it, this would be obvious to you

some ppl has mentionend suggestions to improve the learning curve for “newbs” that where declined by “elites” cause it would hurt top tier play and all is l2p.. so they want no improvement but are not willing to “teach”.. just yada yada yada “l2p”

Again this is a “gimme” mentality
If you want to learn the Why and How, it is YOUR responsibility to seek out the answers, not have them spoon fed to you.
Streams, youtube vids, guides ( which are also on EVERY class forum talking about the new build they found and how it works) and the option to bring a lvl 2 class to the mist and test/learn it are available to you.

Khyras.8021:

Xeph.4513:

Khyras.8021:

Xeph.4513:

Khyras.8021:

Teldo.1473:

Khyras.8021:

Xeph.4513:

Khyras.8021:

Teldo.1473:

After thinking about all of this I can just agree with Xeph.

The mixed queue is probably the best thing they can implement right now.
Especially, because they are probably already working on it and won’t be able to just scrap it completely.
I just hope that we’ll get something like that sooner than later and if the mixed queue is easier to implement it’s probably the right choice.

The mixed system will still be way better than what we have right now and I’d be happy with it.
Queueing against a full team every now and then might be frustrating, but it’s something that I’m willing to take for having a soloqueue.
Players at a medium rating won’t get matched up against full teams very often, hopefully.
And the high rated players might meet full teams more often, but I personally would be fine with that, as long as the community is happy with it and grows.

Later on we will probably still get our soloqueue, if the interest for it is high enough.

I have faith in Arenanet.
The game is moving into the right direction right now with Paid 1vs1 queue anyway.

They never said this is a temporary solution, nor do they have separate queues in plan as afaik. Also, getting matched into unfair matches is unacceptable, i want my rank to be a reflection of my worth as a player, not reflection of a faulty matchmaking system. And another thing, make up your mind already saying one thing 6 hours ago then something completely else 6 hours later makes you look childish and inconsistent, we will achieve nothing with fickle minded players like you.

Please point me to where they said that it was permanent, because I recall they did say that they will change it if the community doesn’t like it.

Well, apparently you like it, so why change it. if they are anouncing something i presume they will keep it if “top players” dont see it as a problem. OFC its not a problem for you play with a team, what do you care if i get unfair matches?

Don’t worry we (even though we have a team) will still soloqueue just as much and we will face the same issues like you. And is it too bad to face a team every 10th game?
In League it was possible to get matched against 2 duo-queues for the longest time, which was rather unfair, too. But people still played it and liked it.

We had our fair share of unfair matches already with free tourneys, dont want more tyvm, and who says it is every 10th match? You did not test the system you dont know that.

That is a two way street my friend, you haven’t tested the system so you don’t know either, and none of us will know until Arena Net implements it; and guess what you don’t pay any subs so why not take a break until then and see if the system works for you or not.
I am sure Arena net has the best interest of the game at heart, stop assuming that they are trying to screw you on purpose.

I havent tested a system but i know for certain that possibility of getting unfair matches is there and for me it is unacceptable. I dont pay sub, but i did buy the game i expect quality i should not be forced to settle for mediocre. Ill take a break when Neverwinter and Teso come out, possibly permanent one if things dont improve here. They dont have my best interest in mind, but yours. They use “top teams” to farm new players so that they can increase ticket sale, that is why you are put on a “you guys know the game” pedestal, and that is why progress in pvp is so slow. Keep the status quo as long as possible.

alright let’s agree to disagree, because it seems that you have made up your mind about something you have not tested nor tried.

All I am saying is lets have a little faith in Arena Net.

take it as you will take it.

Solo/casual players already lost faith in a-net. Most of us left the game, i am one of those stupid enough to stick around still and argue our case.

I havent and im still here.

Please try not to speak for me, I know how to type, as do many others.

Sand Beagle.9867:

You seem to be describing the “Well it was hard for me… so it should be hard for you” mentality. It is characterized sometimes by pretending to give advice, but it is designed to confuse/discourage the person and give them the impression that the subject is more difficult than it actually is.

It might just be a case of wanting to stay at the top, and making it more difficult for people with potentially more inherent skill to catch up is an easy way to do that.

Call it “tryhard subterfuge”.

Maybe, but if someone has potentially more inherent skill I dont think they would come to the forums and qq in the first place, rather they would make the class thats beating them, learn how it plays, learn what it does, learn the weaknesses of the character, then modify their build or playstyle to counter said class.

I think people have gotten to used to the " gimme" mentality, and more people that are fed up with that are basically forcing " newbs" with that gimme mentality to actually do research, wether its by watching boring streams or by actually playing the class and getting better.

To help you OP, and i think this has been said a lot, AoE is your friend when fighting a mesmer, but AoE is only half the puzzle, you need experience fighting and playing a mesmer to get used to its movement.

Pyrial.2917:

Asking why is just as valid as asking how…

Not all the time.
Usually when someone ask’s why, they have no desire to know the how.

Because if you know “How”, you have solved, and countered “why”.

On the other hand if you know " how", you can then ask “why does this need to happen” which leades to better choices in build, team composition, and personal awareness ( when you know the how and why you can become more aware and counter it more effectively, case being the backstab thieves or 100b warriors that many people have figured out).

This is usually asked by a player of higher caliber ( someone who desire’s to get better and not QQ all day).

A better way to say this is.

“It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle”
-Sun Tzu

nerva.7940:

pretty much confirmed by J^2 that eles are getting changed and/or nerfed. im excited about it.

remember when they said they were nerfing backstab combo..

I mean..

yea…get really excited..
They will be nerfed to the ground

Cirax.9231:

D/d eles are strong, but mobility is not the issue. Burning speed and magnetic grasp are gap closers, but aren’t reliable as escapes. Rtl is the only real mobility skill in that weapon set.

Devs have indicated a tone down to ele bunkering soon. In addition to the upcoming aoe tweaks, nerfing d/d mobility will set them back to free-kill status.

The devs hinted at taking down the small things that add up to the bigger ones..

I expect healing will be nerfed first.

Kumu Honua.2751:

The answer is Yes.

actually its yes and maybe

Man someone from SoR just played me >_<

I saw this portal and I was like" OOOO shiny, i wonder where it goes"
So i used it…

it put me behind an EMP zerg -_-

it was not fun

Jedbacca.6297:

Solori.6025:

Jedbacca.6297:

Churchill.8714:

wondo.2870:

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Well it kind of sucks that one one will ever be able to dethrone JQ until people get bored and inevitable quit. Some of those guilds that transferred to JQ should have dispersed to SoR, SoS, and BG for much more even match ups. The way this is going we will just have servers fighting for second place like SoS is doing right now. Anyway the weekend match up was awesome and I am looking forward to more of those in the future.

SBI wvw guilds dispersed to JQ, SoR, FA and Kain. And some remained on SBI

7 to JQ, 7 to SoR, 2(or 3 if you count WM) went to Kain, 2 went to FA.

Churchill.8714:

I wouldn’t really be afraid of Kaineng. Warmachine is a terrible guild and anyone from SoS/JQ knows they are no real threat. They couldn’t hold SBI together (or push them over 3rd place) and they certainly aren’t going to take Kaineng past there either.

I wouldn’t talk about something you clearly know nothing about. Or talk about a guild you know nothing about. And for the record SBI got two second place finishes in the SoS/JQ/SBI matchups.

I thought SF would never abandon SBI?

Like I said earlier – the guilds from SBI that went to SoR and didn’t follow you are much better representations of the people who carried SBI to any fortune they had.

SF and Warmachine are bag dispensers.

. None of us go out of our way to have personal attacks against teams throughout the community unless they would be damaging to communities overall.

As for being bag dispensers, I heard I personally have a higher percentage of dropping Legendaries. I’m the big Charr warrior with a big hammer in front of the SF tags.

Wait…
Jed, didnt you lead pugs to their death and call them fodder..

I remember last time I had the misfortune of following you in SBI BL and you kept a zerg outside of hills, and watched us get wiped at the hole outside the wall -_-

I remember slamming my head on the wall at all the people who kept running back..
to die..

over…

and over….

and over -_-

P.S. I wont lie..
after around the 15min mark i started laughing hysterically at the people who kept going back…

..to die….

I also call myself cannon fodder for pugs while I’m on counter offense. What’s your point? I have slammed myself up against a brick wall of SoS and JQ numerous times so the teams behind me can cap a primary objective. I have no problem taking turns dying over and over as long as long as it accomplishes a goal.

I frequently state to the people in map chat that if you are following me, you will more than likely die on any suicide mission. Nice job at trying to take a stab at me personally. If you can’t read that’s a personal problem.

Was just a fond memory of the glorious jed (lol)

and please, if i wanted to take a stab at you “personally”

I would invite you to a 1 v 1 ( their are always empty pvp rooms in spvp, though on that note i doubt you would even show up), im sure that i could find places to stab you at

Jedbacca.6297:

Churchill.8714:

wondo.2870:

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Well it kind of sucks that one one will ever be able to dethrone JQ until people get bored and inevitable quit. Some of those guilds that transferred to JQ should have dispersed to SoR, SoS, and BG for much more even match ups. The way this is going we will just have servers fighting for second place like SoS is doing right now. Anyway the weekend match up was awesome and I am looking forward to more of those in the future.

SBI wvw guilds dispersed to JQ, SoR, FA and Kain. And some remained on SBI

7 to JQ, 7 to SoR, 2(or 3 if you count WM) went to Kain, 2 went to FA.

Churchill.8714:

I wouldn’t really be afraid of Kaineng. Warmachine is a terrible guild and anyone from SoS/JQ knows they are no real threat. They couldn’t hold SBI together (or push them over 3rd place) and they certainly aren’t going to take Kaineng past there either.

I wouldn’t talk about something you clearly know nothing about. Or talk about a guild you know nothing about. And for the record SBI got two second place finishes in the SoS/JQ/SBI matchups.

I thought SF would never abandon SBI?

Like I said earlier – the guilds from SBI that went to SoR and didn’t follow you are much better representations of the people who carried SBI to any fortune they had.

SF and Warmachine are bag dispensers.

. None of us go out of our way to have personal attacks against teams throughout the community unless they would be damaging to communities overall.

As for being bag dispensers, I heard I personally have a higher percentage of dropping Legendaries. I’m the big Charr warrior with a big hammer in front of the SF tags.

Wait…
Jed, didnt you lead pugs to their death and call them fodder..

I remember last time I had the misfortune of following you in SBI BL and you kept a zerg outside of hills, and watched us get wiped at the hole outside the wall -_-

I remember slamming my head on the wall at all the people who kept running back..
to die..

over…

and over….

and over -_-

P.S. I wont lie..
after around the 15min mark i started laughing hysterically at the people who kept going back…

..to die….

Porky.5021:

Short of exploiting or outright cheating, anything goes in WvW…especially tier 1.

However, I do try to have a sense of decency. Rather than kill all 10 people camping me, I usually try to let 2 or 3 run away.

Your a nice person…..

I kill them all ….

Better to be safe and keep supply lines going than be sorry :I

Anzu.5702:

ElDudemeister.5108:

First we should answer why so many threads are focused on making WvW less like WvW and more like PvP.

I think you misunderstand my point. I am all for large scale combat. But the scaling is completely out of whack. More than 5:1 ratio and you have no chance as the number advantage is the only thing that matters.

Also its about the decency of not 20v1 a single player. how is that wvw skill? And it ges pretty demoralizing which is why people usually drop out by the end of the week

Roll with your 20 man group?

They have commander tags on for a reason……

This is an open world PVP scenerio.
If you cant handle being outnumbered then WvW was not a good choice for your pvp fix.
Why do you expect people in a large group not to roll over a straggler or rambo player alone in the open?

Better Question-
Do you have any idea what happens when you ignore people in WvW?

…Well since this is unlikely to ever get implemented, your best bet is to

make a thief,ele,warrior, or mesmer

These professions have many means of escaping and can do so quite well.

Transfer to a low pop server, maybe go to SBI or Devona

Roll with the group
You have a bigger chance to live if someone next to you takes one for the team <_<

Stop going expecting people to abide by a self-made/personal " Code"

This is a video game, not grandmaster samurai meetings, if someone wants to be a kitten, they will be a kitten.
Grow a thicker layer and move on.

Jeknar.6184:

Solori.6025:

It would be so nice if they just removed the badges from the JP chest .

Then people that actually want to help their server, the ones that actually want to work towards a legendary by being productive in WvW and learn every aspect of the game, will get a legendary.
Those kind of people deserve to have them.

And it would kill all the QQ about JP campers.

Not gonna happen mate… And in opposed of what you want to happen, you will have a lot of people unskilled on PvP occupying the spots for more time, where you actually want WvWvW active players.

I would much rather have those unskilled players following commanders and being productive, while wasting a slot. Then have those same unskilled players in a JP, FEEDING badges to the enemy and crying about the JP, being unproductive, AND wasting a slot and potential manpower from the friends they will drag into WvW to try and retake the JP.

It would be so nice if they just removed the badges from the JP chest .

Then people that actually want to help their server, the ones that actually want to work towards a legendary by being productive in WvW and learn every aspect of the game, will get a legendary.
Those kind of people deserve to have them.

And it would kill all the QQ about JP campers.

Goblin.1586:

So CoF p1 farm speed runs now require 2 mesmers and 4 warriors. .

No one caught this at all :I

Churchill.8714:

Not liking David Bowie…lol.

BIEBER AND BEYONCE FOREVER

What was your name again?

SilencingMachine.5049:

Cat Amiss.9463:

Sounds like your mad since Indo didn’t stay with you

haha Not.Even.Close.

Yes, I know all about him trying to organize the guilds on JQ and form some kinda uber alliance that blew up in his face (no fault of his own). So then, he just said in Cartman fashion “Screw you guys. I’m going home.” and went to another server. I still have friends in his guild. Like I said, I do still miss running with him. But also like I said, he and a LOT of other “commanders” on all servers take this GAME wayyyyyy too seriously. Maybe he has calmed down since moving servers. Sure hope so!

Ummmmm…

I saw my babeh….crying hard as babe could cry…what could i do <_<

http://youtu.be/ZvyNOg4jSRg

P.S.

I like this song :o

Oglaf.1074:

How is it a troll thread? I asked a question based on my observations. I’ve yet to see a post arguing for, for example, the viability of Necromancers. You really don’t need any other classes, heck if it weren’t for porting Golems, Mesmers wouldn’t be vital either.

Well..your argueing that a class that has a way to run away..ran away…..

Sorry but in WvW we dont need people to play tag and run away, we need people that can man siege, hold the line ( lol), and push.

something those professions can not do as well as the heavy armor class.

Their is a reason you dont see a mes,thief, or ele using siege or in the front lines tanking.

Leo G.4501:

I enjoy playing both

haviz.1340:

But precision comes with power on the best armour so why all this discussion?

Pre does not only come with power on the best armor