All your suggestion does is artificially keep scores close,
I think that keeping the scores close is good for the game. It means that there is more opportunity for an upset later in the week.
It’s pretty boring when the first place server has won by Tuesday.
This said, I don’t see any magic bullet, one-shot solution. There will be more to do even if/when this is implemented.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
I prefer option number 1. In number 2, the lucky people will just get luckier as they will get the items they want AND get tokens as well. Let’s just have a system where more people will get their items a bit more easily.
My concern with #1 is that when the required grind is known, people will not like it.
With pure RNG, people still try things on the off chance of a lucky drop.
This is maintained with #2 and #2.5, but I think people will not try things if the reward is known to be so very far away.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
6th Gandara
7th Far Shiverpeaks
1oth Piken Square
15th Gunnar’s Hold
Wich one is best for roaming and small scale fights, but is also not dead.
Gandara is probably full,
FSP is usually full,
Piken is definitely full++,
Gunnars has no very few, tiny queues and only at prime time
Piken has queue to EB in PT, but that’s it. No queues on either borderland unless there’s havoc and we want to defend/take stuff back.
Ah there you go then, I recommend Piken. In my experience (the recent tournament) there will be a lot of people evenespecially over night and you’ll help them get up to the tiers where there’s no roaming enemy guildgroups, just endless b-lobs teleporting from waypoint to waypoint. Have fun. T2 EU!
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
Greetings,
Been pondering some ideas to help improve the dynamic in WvW and help some of the servers that lack coverage and the ability to compete be able to stay in the game through the end of the match. Thus keeping the top dog busy and the battlefield active.
My proposal breaks apart matchups into different perks for each place.
Removing Cross Swords
1st place should have no swords
2nd place should have a 30 second delay on swords
3rd place should show swords instantly.
Build Timers
1st place Upgrades build 50% slower
2nd place Upgrades build at normal speed
3rd place Upgrades 50% faster
NPC’s
1st Place NPC’s have 25% less HP
2nd place NPC’s are normal
3rd Place NPC’s have 25% more HP
Siege
1st Place: Siege Weapons Cost 10 Supply More to Build
2nd Place: No Effect
3rd Place: Siege Weapons Cost 10 Supply Less to Build
By creating these tiered buffs you would make it so the underdog would have more of a shot of staying competitive to the end. I don’t know anyone that enjoys playing a blowout match. It would be better to keep things close.
I’ve posted exactly such suggestions before myself, Ben, and thank you for presenting them in this more legible and comprehensible format.
Could you kindly clear up whether you mean that you determine who is in 1st, 2nd and 3rd places as the game progresses in real time, at a set interval or just at the end of the match, please?
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
2.5: “Add secondary reward mechanisms (ie. token based system) alongside the primary RNG system; allow progress to be made even when you don’t get the result you want.”
It’s pretty much a no brainer, isn’kitten
Token based > all. If you then want to add an RNG element so people get a nice surprise on their way to their destination, then do that.
Ofc, you will get labelled “grindy”, but tbh, if;
you are playing a game and
have a set goal and
the content has to be repeated to achieve the goal
—> it’s a grindy game.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
I haven’t seen Magic Find on utilities before. Maybe they think it’ll be popular (hence the 78c minimum sell price), but since Magic Find is such an unknown, purposefully obscured factor, I suspect people won’t bother.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
Don’t expect anybody to be walking around with Immobulus any time before the game folds.
It is my opinion that Arenanet are scared to change drop-rates. It causes manipulators/speculators to get upset about their “investments”. This is why I confidently predict that it won’t be changed.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
I agree, it was done a little sloppy. But
A : Im enjoying it, and im sure others are too, and
B : You are not paying for it. So your getting nothing for nothing, get it?
I’ve seen a few comments around saying that content is free, and while I’m sure many of us don’t use the cash shop at all, I have many guild-mates who do.
It IS being paid for by players.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
There was quite a lot of discussion around the proposal of removing white swords from objectives in WvW. We understand there are concerns about how this change might work in practice or how player behavior may change as a result of it. We felt like the best way to understand fully the impact, and give players a chance to see for themselves how it directly changes the WvW experience is to let people try it and see what they think.
We have decided to run a special multi-week event in WvW where we’ll be changing some of the “rules” of WvW for a limited time. This event will feature two major rule changes while it is running: we are planning to remove white swords from objectives, and add points per kill in WvW to the over-all score for the duration of this event. We are currently targeting December for this event but will keep you posted when we have dates nailed down for certain. If this type of event is successful, we may look to do more events like this in the future where for short periods of time the rules of WvW are changed to different rules, scoring and scenarios to help both keep the game fresh, as well as to change up the experience and try new fun things for WvW.
We look forward to your feedback once the event begins, both on the temporary event only changes, as well as the concept of these special events in WvW.
Thanks,
John
Best decision ever. Thank you so much for giving things a try! I’m delighted that you are taking this approach.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
We all recognise that Hammer Stun is part of the cheesy meta at the moment (along with condi duration reduction food and Commanders being charr guardians with rucksacks etc etc).
What would happen if the Warrior’s Hammer Stun was Removed from the game?
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
Would you rather fight new opponents each week or have balanced matches each week, realizing that depending on your servers strength you may not get both. Hello, T1!
I’d rather fight the same enemies every week than have uneven matchups.
In fact, I did fight the same enemies every week in DAoC, like so many other people (and the sides were uneven there, too: I saw a Hib once! No lie).
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
Server vs server was always a bad idea especially with servers like BG and JQ stacking the deck with dedicated WvW guilds. Not sure what the solution is, but I’d prefer a system like in WoW where it was Horde vs Alliance and people got assigned randomly to matches. Perhaps this could be done here with three different teams competing with each other and individuals assigned to each on a rotating basis. In fact , why not get rid of the three team thing and go with just two sides fighting each other with random players, like most fps shooters but on a weekly basis?
My idea is not fleshed out and I am just tossing this out there but the real issue is utter lack of balance in WvW and people getting frustrated with being stomped by zergs or being the ones stomping small groups, which is even more frustrating and demoralizing.
Your comment seems to encompass everything that WvW isn’t.
WvW is about communities working together (guilds are an important part of that). So we can’t have randomised players.
When Warhammer was made a 2-sided battle, everybody (lots of vocal people, but not me) complained to the ceiling and back about how it was a fundamental flaw and that a 3-sided game would be the holy grail and would balance the uneven fights. It turns out that the 3-sided game needs some… regulation.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
Please, people, use your imagination. After years of losing arrow carts, catapults and trebs, the people of the blue corner have decided to build a huge mound to stop enemies attacking from under the bridge.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
How do we make play time in off hours valuable without blowing out the score?
Snowballing
How do we give worlds a fighting chance throughout the duration of the match?
Stagnation
How do I feel continuously challenged when my world is ahead?
How does my world break the hold that other worlds have on me when I’m behind?
Snowballing
How do we give worlds a fighting chance throughout the duration of the match?
One idea: punish/hinder whoever is leading at any one time. This can take many forms;
here is one: The leader gets half (arbitrary number, someone else can do the mathematics here) as many PPT as the other two sides. This keeps the scores closer.
Another method: The leader gets half as much supply from all sources.
Another method: The leader has fewer hitpoints on walls and doors.
These are merely examples, there are myriad options.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
I believe this is the right direction, with a tweak. Only remove white swords for whoever is leading the scores at any one time. Done.
This incentivises the other two teams to attack the strongest side as was suggested a very long time ago.
Not really.
It just make said server being forced to play defensively, avoid fights, and never get out of objectives to keep their lead, hence burning out people out of boredom and killing WvW some more.
Encouraging people to avoid fights by hiding possibility of those, should NEVER happen in WvW.
You wand MORE ways of detecting/following ennemy players to confront them, not ways for them to go undetected, PvD some objective before defense can come, and then leave without a fight.
Why not just show their dots on the map, then, if this is your vision of WvW?
It’s not mine.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
for starters, For each +40% food, there is a -40% food, so the foods are not the issue. They’re expensive, so people don’t just waste this food.
I’ve never seen this issue on the forum before.
+40% doesn’t make sense because everybody HAS to run -40% to counter it. That’s why every guild is running mostly -40% condition duration. Do you have an interest in the Lemongrass Poultry Soup industry, perchance? Come on, full disclosure please!
I think the OP has put forward some very convincing arguments that should be acted upon (though I’m not holding my breath).
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
Define “feasable” in this case. For that matter, define “interesting” in this case. Honestly, I have found use for all of then multiple times. Why should we change them?
Look at the good ones…
Might from blasting fire fields, Heals from blasting water.
Look at the poor ones…
The frost shield thing (don’t get time to see it’s name) that lasts for less than a second, Dazzling Strike, and the purple bubble one that is gone before you can enter combat
Perhaps those short-duration ones are what you might call feasible, but I really struggle with them.
Anyway, let’s move away from argumentative contradiction and into a creative, fun ideas thread.
GO!
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
This is a thread to challenge the forum users to suggest their ideas to revamp combos.
Field+Blast, Leap, etc
We all know there are only a few that are reasonably feasible and that lots that could be more interesting.
Bearing in mind the uses in PvP, WvW and that other game mode, come up with some revamps of existing combos and/or new combos! e.g. what should light fields do when blasted? Don’t suggest new powers or abilities, this is simply for combos.
GO!
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
do you look at the matchup probabilities posted each week? some servers are stuck in a position where they are very nearly guaranteed a bad matchup every week. if you’re on one of those servers there may be no option except to transfer.
-ken
Transferring isn’t the answer. In fact, there is a substantial number of people who think transferring is a betrayal and wouldn’t dream of leaving – a merge, however, would be perceived as honourable and keep them with their community.
Just for the record, I don’t believe merges are the answer to the population nightmare.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
I would like to see a map that is as simple as the existing ones (perhaps with destructable bridges). The opposite of Edge of the Mist. None of this floating islands in the sky 1970s Yes album cover nonsense.
It doesn’t matter if it favours 1 side if it is replicated on all 3 borders, so balance isn’t an issue.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
I’ll just chime in here and say that completely removing white swords in all cases is a terrible idea – any server that does not have 24/7 coverage for a(ll) map(s) will be forced to spread their already scarce resources even thinner, in many cases meaning people won’t bother to defend at all. \
… which in and of itself isn’t such a bad thing. This change could turn a defendy-oriented server into an attack-minded berserkerfest!
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
Removing white swords from objectives to give defenders a stronger role in alerting their team as well as giving attackers more of a chance to get through having their siege disabled.
I’m positive about this overall.
If there have to be changes:
I think this could be tied into the “outmanned/outnumbered” buffs. If you are outmanned you get the white swords as normal.
OR
it could be tied to the score: The higher the difference between your score & the lowest score, the longer the swords take to appear
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
Omni-blob of 80 people parked outside your gate. Let time bomb go off. Rush inside and overwhelm any defenders. Repeat on next gate.
The rarity of the drop makes this a big waste, thus discouraging it. Also, waiting for 3 minutes to destroy a door you can destroy in 1 minute with a blob would be a waste (Maybe the 3 minutes should be 5 minutes to emphasise this point). I do take the point that this would be seen as an option from blob commanders when they have very few supplies left though – can’t see a solution to this).
Trap Doors that can be upgraded to different levels with each higher level being able to drop more people into it. At the bottom of the trap door pit, spikes. Pain. Sadness. Also, enjoyment for anyone watching people fall into it.:D These can be triggered at different weights with different amounts of people crossing them.
Nice idea, but how would this benefit small groups but not larger ones?
Let’s have more of YOUR ideas please!
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
This thread is for YOUR ideas for things that would work for small group-play and specifically not work for blobs, and are even good for things that work against blobs.
Here are 2 ideas to kick us off:
Time Bomb Blueprint
The Time Bomb blueprint is a rare/super-rare drop which allows builds a time bomb which requires few supplies (say.. 20 or 30) and goes off after 3 minutes doing enough damage to blow up a reinforced door wall.
Because it has a long timer, zergs should be discouraged from using it. It is meant to allow small groups to get into structures quickly without alerting the owners, IF they are not alert to the threat.
The timer also means that if it is used in open field, you will have to be very lucky to catch enemies.
Boobytrapped Doors Upgrade
This high-damage upgrade is to stop enemies from zerging into a structure all at once and does huge AoE damage to enemies near the doors as soon as they open. The counter is simply to stand back from the doors, let’s see if you can make a blob do that!
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
Hey Guys,
I’d like to kick of a discussion on scoring in WvW.
Here is a summary of what you guys have brought up in our previous discussions:
24 hour coverage
How do we make play time in off hours valuable without blowing out the score?
Diminishing returns (partial solution).
The more you take, the weaker each of your objectives (in terms of guards, perhaps supply you get etc. Make it so that when you have lots of things, it is very hard to keep any of them – logic is that the supply is shared among all the objectives therefore weaker walls and doors, not enough food for many guards etc. Important: Remove white swords (perhaps only when you outnumber the opponent). These are the bane of all small-groups and are one of the main reasons servers get away with blobbing so much. This means that worlds who dominate and capture everything then risk losing their most precious objectives to ninja teams.
[edit] I believe this is the right direction, with a tweak. Only remove white swords for whoever is leading the scores at any one time. Done.
How do we give worlds a fighting chance throughout the duration of the match?
Diminishing returns.
The more you hold, the less points for each thing you get. Obviously your total always goes up when you hold more stuff but the difference between holding all-but-one and all of the objectives should be miniscule. Disincentivise holding everything, give no champ bags or loot when you have significantly more people or when your score is significantly higher than the place below you – why do you deserve those things for easy-(blob)-mode?
Tertiary event.
Some deus-ex event which is triggered somehow (can’t be something players can calculate such as score disparity). The event makes life hard for the winning team, and could perhaps be triggered multiple times, making life harder and harder each time. If you think the whining is loud about siege disruptors, wait until they get a load of this!
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
I thought about this for 5 seconds and decided I like it.
As long as it’s not a huge amount, I think it’s a good idea. My concern would be that a blob could take advantage of it, but frankly, if you have a blob you can take a camp and run back super quickly anyway. This idea would be just a nice little way for small groups and soloers to supplement supply – which is why it might not even be worth spending dev time implementing it.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
We had an enemy server who tanked (all my posts with their name in get infracted) into our league and dominated it. We fought them for two weeks, it was brutal and horrible.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
24 hour coverage.
I don’t know if it’s been mentioned, but wouldn’t a good idea for time-slicing be to have one long time-slice for overnight (1am-7am, for example), compared with smaller slices for daytime (e.g. 1 slice every hour in primetime, 1 slice every 2 hours the rest of the time)?
Whoever has best score in a time-slice wins that time-slice: the winner is the team with the most slices at the end of the week.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
As someone who plays with a couple of characters I have to admit it’s a minor inconvenience to swap siege between characters, but seriously folks, there’s much more major changes needed than this. I consider it a minor quality of life improvement, I wouldn’t want major time dedicating to this when there are huuuge problems with WvW at the moment.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
I play OCX timezone too and am on Piken. We have lots of fun running small roaming groups on borderlands and there is usually a reasonable presence on EB. Feel free to whisper me ingame if you want to chat more
Hi Talindra,
With the greatest of possible respect to Terrier and his server, I’d recommend against this option since I didn’t see anything “small” from them. We have had to fight them for the last two weeks.
Their performance in the tournament suggests they should soon be at the top of the ladder with queues on every borderland.
Hope this helps!
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
The weather is always fair in EotM, something that is rarely seen in WvW.
John,
Seems this thread isn’t doing much to generate anything new. Can we move on to a scoring thread? I think you are more likely to change WvW participation by a change in scoring than anything else.
I want to see some opinion from the developers, but it appears that this problem is FAR from being solved. I am concerned that this will mean no change.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
I propose a test! Lets give this idea a try for a few months.
This is one of the least disruptive ideas. It will not break server communities or server coordination or large group combat or any of that stuff. It is not overly complicated. If it works, then we can be done with all of these crazy “remake everything about WvW” ideas. If it doesn’t work, then there is nothing stopping Anet from doing something more drastic later.
This idea has a lot of potential benefits, and very few risks. Most of these other ideas come with huge risks and sacrifices (including the one Anet proposed); some might even completely ruin WvW and turn it into EotM. Before we try anything drastic, lets give this simple but powerful tweak a try.
His suggestion is the Outmanned buff by another name. Look how well that works as incentive to move to an Outmanned map (i.e. it doesn’t). Scale it to server size. Personallly, I don’t see it having the desired effect.
It could also be abused by the “server riding” effect where swathes of people transfer to a low server and ride it up the league, then repeat.
This suggestion is significantly different than the Outmanned buff.
Outmanned is a minor buff (1.3x loot) that effects a map only so long as it has 4v1 odds.
The suggested change will effect the loot for entire servers. Every server in T8 would be getting a massive loot bonus relative to T1. Before the population begins to balance out, that difference could be more than 3x the loot. That bonus would not go away just because a guild group switched maps.
I think it’d be pointless because when you are severely outnumbered you will lose. You won’t get any loot whatsoever. You will get (nothing x3 = nothing). If you are on T1 you will get normal loot x1 (ofc, if they made it 0, then we’d be talking!).
If a large group of people transfer to a server, then that bonus would decrease (assuming that it is tied to man-hours as it should be). They could not cheese the system that way. They only way to “manipulate” the system would be to constantly transfer to underdog servers, which is EXACTLY what we want to have happen.
I’m delighted that you are taking this approach.