Guild Wars 2

Albione.3894:

At this stage I wouldn’t mind them just gutting almost all of the skills and replacing them with something like this:

• Make skill 1 ‘Bolts of Wrath’. Increase range to 1200. Fires bolts out the end of the staff (essentially keeping the same animation as Wave of Wrath) that can hit multiple enemies if they’re between you and your target.

• Make skill 2 ‘Rays of Light’. Streams multiple beams of light down from above your enemy target burning them every second while also healing allies nearby at set intervals.

• Keep skill 3 the same.

• Make skill 4 ‘Vigorous Blessing’. Cast swirling energy around a target ally, granting continuing stacks of might and regeneration to them and allies nearby. Can target self.

• Make skill 5 ‘Warding Wave’. Projects an immense wave of cleansing energy in the direction of your choosing, turning conditions on allies into boons, while crippling enemies that it passes through.

It’d be nice to get a ‘Core Guardian’ weapon for Guardian that’s longer range than what we have without owning HoT, especially since PoF doesn’t natively come packaged with that expansion.

With the right balance, this would be a great rework.

zealex.9410:

>all the other staff skills got a buff.

All the other staff skills are useless in the mode’s they’re intended for outside of #3.

Hicci.8761:

Endless Soul.5178:

Thustlewhumber.7416:

Hopefully this will prevent most guards from just 1,1,1ing.

Translated: “Oh no, most guardians aren’t doing what I want them to do!”

Nah, the actual translation is: " Wew, I hope people stop being kittened and actually play guardian like it was meant to be and not just spam 1 like mindless bots."

So basically you think we should play guardian a certain way. So you want us to play how you think we should play.

Because ‘you can hit through walls and gates’. And we can still hit through walls and gates.

Darn poor excuse and whichever intern on the balance team who put this up for discussion needs a slap upside the back of the head with a married man’s ring finger.

Storagestick.

eozturk.7205:

Happy with the change. Too bad that took so long to fix it. No more medicore midline staff camper guard gets rewarded and no more cheesing hills lord room wall to damage people in lords room. Guardians should focus on actual guardian work like cleansing allies, giving stability/boons, CC’s instead mashing only autoattack.

Can still hit through gates and through walls. Point moot.

Endless Soul.5178:

Syktek.7912:

It’s time to leave staff behind. It was a good five years, but christ did it get boring.

Speak for yourself.

It was a boring weapon. All it had was #1 and #3. The other three skills had absolutely no use in recent times because #2 loves going off in random directions to ‘compensate’ for the direction a player is heading. #4 has always been a joke since there’s a thousand sources of might during fights in WvW and even more in PvE. #5 is meant for PvP and WvW, except in PvP people will just walk around it and in WvW everyone has kitten near perma stab.

So yeah, it’s a boring weapon in need of a complete rework, not nerfs. Instead, now it’s just going to sit in people’s banks.

What I originally had to say about this earlier probably would have gotten me permabanned from the forums. Don’t let my careless attitude here make you think I support this change.

-

Point. If Anet was worried about us hitting things through gates they would have changed the skill completely. You can still hit siege through gates and you can still proc justice on said siege which will hit people further out. This change did nothing to stop burn guardians from deleting people on and near siege.

zell.3051:

Oh dear… Could it be guardians now actually work for their loot like the rest of us? HURRAY for the nerf! #lazinessshouldneverwin

Nope, hah. We have free access to low cooldown ranged symbols. We can still tag everything with minimal effort.

I support this simply because the change serves absolutely no purpose. No one worth their opinion asked for this.

Adrenalin.5719:

They only revert changes when the Ele community cries. Don’t even try. Abandon the game if you want to continue maining Guard or switch classes. I will abandon.

And nothing of value was lost.

And for people who think this is good: No, you’re going to see even deadlier Guardians now. Staff kitten our DPS and generally was just used to farm kills. Since many Guardians are moving to hybrid DPS or full burn build….get ready for some hurt in WvW. Haha.

As for PvE, guard will finally be able to keep up with the zerg thanks to mounts. Axe will also have forward cleave making farming Halloween just as easy as before.

It’s time to leave staff behind. It was a good five years, but christ did it get boring.

Yeah, everything else what great. Dunno what they were thinking when they touched Staff 1.

But hey, even if it stays I haven’t used staff seriously in almost a year now.

Don’t worry about the negative nancies OP. They did the same thing with DH and it turned out just fine.

The angriest customers are often the loudest, but they don’t represent the majority thought. And often quite very wrong in their predictions.

I for one and kitten excited for Firebrand :>

The gold and, basically, free ascended stuff you got?

Okay, first off, don’t worry about doing raids exactly if you want legendary armor. Soon enough you’ll also be able to get it through sPvP and WvW. So if you want to go for it, find the content you like the most and do it that way. Though it’s still gonna be a hell of a trip anyway.

As for legendary weapons, there’s a wide array that have been introduced since you last played. With an upcoming expansion, there’ll be even more of them. So maybe wait until expansion to truly make a decision. Gives you time to find where you wanna since things have changed.

Guardian has mostly been okay / unchanged in WvW and sPvP for awhile now. In sPvP DH has received, well deserved, nerfs, but it is still quite very effective (Mainly meditrapper). There’s other builds to consider like burn guardian or symbolic. In WvW it’s still quite very effective as a boon and stab bot while putting out damage / loot sticking everything. It will never lose that spot.

Looks like I’m going to get Merciless Legend. So I’d say pretty darn good for my first PvP season.

Benjamin Arnold.3457:

zealex.9410:

Benjamin Arnold.3457:

DBZVelena.5186:

So basically, before the teleport didn’t happen because two bugs countered each other. Then one bug got fixed and it revealed the presence of another bug.

Yeah this kinda stuff is why fixing bugs in a codebase with millions of lines of code is always scary. Sometimes its better to NOT fix a bug :P

Do you have an example of a bug that if fixed could mess up a diff something else?

When designers play “Attached” effects on a creature, the effect is actually rotated 180 degrees the wrong way due to a code bug. So artists and designers would manually rotate the effect to work. But since there are already thousands of attached effects, fixing this bug would break all of those effects.

Granted, with some work you could probably make a clever python script to find all references to all attached effects and manually do some kind of fixup along with the patch, but it will still break for people working in different code streams than the main one that you do your fixes in.

felincyriac.5981:

thought this would have been fixed by now…

The fix is in the balance patch. Just wait a day.

Please don’t hurt Guardian :<

Loot trains, frontline power/burn guardian in WvW.

Ghotistyx.6942:

I’m really glad we’re all getting to participate in a really heated discussion here.
Just pages and pages throughout the forums
So quick to judge
No need to be so defensive
I mean, fighting for honor and justice is admirable
But don’t let your burning passions smolder too long
Or there might need to be an intervention

I’m personally stoked for Firebrand.

Meditrapper and DH Burn. If you’re going to solo q DH Burn will be a better friend in most cases.

Meditrapper: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_Meditrapper

Website will explain this one.

DH Burn: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAse7dnkICVDhlDBeDB8DhlGiKb+uv97aYXgAQu5L+nH-TZhAQB87EAMmyAb8IAAgHCAM2fAA

Since I don’t like what metabattle has for Burn DH here’s my version. Basically a team fight oriented build in which you abuse your blocks to full charge your justice passive. Great self sustain, fury and retal uptime, and very good at res denial.

Can easily win 1v1s against most classes.

Downside to it is that you’re easily chain stunned once your two breaks are gone.

Here’s a video of someone playing, but with Viper’s instead of Carrion.

RabbitUp.8294:

Syktek.7912:

RabbitUp.8294:

Maybe in theory, but when you can use Stone Spirit for perma-protection, why take a hammer guardian?

It’s called having fun.

Raids are not solo content. Unless you have 9 other friends, have fun getting kicked.

A) I generally run Condi Ranger and, on KC, standard staff Ele. I run guardian only in pugs or when raid leader allows it in our static (depends on how they’re feeling usually)
B) I have a static who couldn’t give a kitten less about what I run because I make it work (not being a bad player really helps).
C) I highly doubt I’d get kicked from a pug raid because all the other DPS classes never really know what they’re doing; specially if they’re running ele. On a good day I can press 15-20k (In raid, not on the test golem) on Guardian with off meta loltier builds that I run for kittensngiggles. I do it on wing 1 bosses, Sloth, other easy ones. Cause it’s fun and refreshing.

If people would chill out and stop running the qT meta BS constantly (WHICH IS ONLY OPTIMAL IF PEOPLE ARE NAILING THEIR ROTATIONS) raids would be a lot more awesome. With the introduction of legendary armor outside raids you’re going to see a massive drop in people attending because of that ‘lol u gunna git kicked’ attitude that you, and others, have. I’d much rather have put 1000 hours into WvW for my legendary armor than the time I did for raids(But too late there, already have it >.<). It’s more engaging, it’s far from frustrating and no one can judge your build or tell you what to do.

But you know, raid elitism~

Manimarco Devil.1790:

First of all, if you look at the damage its not even a nerf at all
Secondly, we do not know if tome of justice has a pvp version and we only see the pve one in the tool tip
Third, the specs aren’t released. People have found conflicting concepts in other traits/skills that may need to be polished a bit.

Current :
Burning (Passive Effect) (4s): 524 Damage

Tooltip in screenshot :
Burning (Passive Effect) (1 1/2s): 541 Damage

I posted this but deleted it for whatever dumb reason I had last night.

If anything that is a straight up buff. Quick burns are super deadly.

RabbitUp.8294:

Maybe in theory, but when you can use Stone Spirit for perma-protection, why take a hammer guardian?

It’s called having fun.

RabbitUp.8294:

There’s no doubt firebrand will be used in zergs, they are in improved version of the stability share core guards.

Don’t forget burn share.

REKKRAP.1759:

Groups won’t instantly kick you for wanting to play a Guardian DPS. I’ve been able to get into raiding with my guard. However, groups will prefer other dps classes (especially ele). So it can be difficult to find a raiding group if that’s your only class.

Their DPS is actually really good, but most people who play them don’t play them well. But the only viable build they can play right now is Dragon Hunter power, so they’re limited that way. Hopefully that’ll change with the expansion, but we don’t know enough yet to say.

I started playing a condition PS warrior (their job in raids is to stack might, but they also do good dps). I think they’re very fun, and the current meta requires two per group, so it’s easy to find groups to join.

Basically, if you aren’t running with pugs attempting to tryhard cause they think qT builds are the endall (Don’t ever join a full pug raid asking for four eles, it won’t end well) and can nail a very simple rotation consistently – you’ll do fine on guard in raids. Shoot, hammer guardian is still viable.

This will have literally no effect on burn guardian. You may proceed

“Give me free stuff cause I played your game” Cry me a river.

Adrenalin.5719:

I mean, solo fighting group mobs is what I define as being good in openworld but I guess there could be different standings.

Btw I forgot to mention that Guard has one of the worst, if not the worst downed spells. The 1 spell does NO damage and the 3 spell is also quite terrible. Can be annoying when you solo big stuff.

This guy has such a massive victim complex it isn’t even funny. He’s probably a terrible player or just outright kittened.

Guardian downstates are just fine. A standard damage skill, a CC that’ll knock mobs back giving you some room to breath, a skill that does a good chunk of healing (and also damages).

Adrenalin.5719:

Syktek.7912:

Adrenalin.5719:

Well, at least stay correct then. Guard only reaches 30k with virtues unscathered. This can only really be done on Gorse, one boss of like 20. Quit the kitten plz.

‘can only be done’ – I said can, I didn’t get specific you salty child. It can be done and still is done. But you know, continue hating yourself and kittenting on the forums.

I’ll be over here being excited for more additions to an already super awesome class.

It’s called a cheesy straw man argument, Gorse does not equal raiding as a whole, keep trolling mate.

I’ll keep trolling and wearing my legendary armor I earned while playing guardian instead of worrying about minmaxing. Stay salty plebian <3

Firebrand is gonna be a great addition to Guardian.

Adrenalin.5719:

Well, at least stay correct then. Guard only reaches 30k with virtues unscathered. This can only really be done on Gorse, one boss of like 20. Quit the kitten plz.

‘can only be done’ – I said can, I didn’t get specific you salty child. It can be done and still is done. But you know, continue hating yourself and kittenting on the forums.

I’ll be over here being excited for more additions to an already super awesome class.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6qyzlc/firebrand_stuff/

Pretty good thread on the subreddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6qyzlc/firebrand_stuff/

Adrenalin.5719:

Please don’t comment on raiding as a WvWler, do us all a favor.

I play all aspects of the game and main Guardian. I’ll comment on what I please.

You know, people cried about how bad DH was going to be and it turned out just fine.

Also, Guardian can spew at 28k DPS with burn build in raids and 30k similar with GS / Scepter + Torch power.

Guardian is just fine right now and it’ll be even better when Firebrand releases.

Tomes beforehand were absolutely garbage and were replaced with two, much more usable, skills. Tomes were also not F1-F3.

Got any other braindead things to complain about?

I can see it now. The new burn guardian. Virtues, Valor, Firebrand. Cleaving forward AoE autos and close ranger axe skills will make proc’ing PW + Justice combo much easier and much more deadly.

Can’t wait to be even more cancerous in WvW!

Attacking a burn guard, DH or base, while he is blocking is what kills you. Base burn has pretty nasty defensive block burns. DH burn has extremely nasty active burns (every time you attack the DH gets a full justice charge he can apply).

Simply don’t attack any major blocking skills. So the F3 if DH and Focus 5. Stay the hell away from purging flames if the player is using that.

Kiting actually works extremely well on most burn guards. You can juke scepter orbs by spamming left/right movement. If you can trick a burn guard into camping scepter you’ll more than likely win.

The other important thing to understand is, while yes our passive damage is very good, our spike damage is what makes us deadly. If you avoid our spike you have a decent chance at countering.

Also, in team fight, focus a burn guard over a necro every time. A good burn guard will nuke you ten times faster than a necro.

Darknicrofia.2604:

A full burn guard also has next to zero stunbreak/stability. CC it outside of block and they’re easy kills

And this is 100% true. We have two stun breaks. Easy to lock a burn guard down.

Was stuck in mid silver for 50 games before managing to break out. I ran into several bots, one of which was someone I knew, and had entire teams not even bother capping points.

200 point leads thrown away cause enemy team paying people on my team to throw. Happened two matches in a row against the same people.

One team spent all its time fighting a bunker rev at far and kept asking me, specifically me, why we didn’t have mid or home. I dunno, probably because I’m 1v4.

Saw a bearbow ranger with hawk and blackwidow at mid plat two days ago.

I’m top 250 NA and I’m still seeing stupid things. What even is GW2 PvP?

Same thing keeps happening to me. That or I get DC’d back to character select.

“that they require a group of ten highly equipped players with very good skill”

But you can complete every raid encounter in exotics without issue and time to spare still. And, yeah, skill isn’t what I would call required for raids in this game. It’s hardly skill. It’s more so common sense and knowing your encounters.

Raid encounters in this game are very, very forgiving. I got Eternal my training run for Spirit Vale and hardly considered myself an efficient player at the time. I still don’t. I mess up my rotations all the time, sometimes to the point that my G-Leader is yelling at me for “MOOOOAAAAR POOOWWAAAH” and everyone else is doing just as bad; and we still get the kills. Raids in this game are not difficult.

As for the Story Mode, sure why not, but a dumbed down version of the raid had better not give LIs (Other rewards, sure why not) to players. You do not deserve something actual raid enthusiasts worked their booties off for with five times the effort and dedication. Also, if you want to experience the story there’s the wiki, the recap Anet gave and, of course, the completed raid instances a lot of people provide every week for you to go and explore. You seriously aren’t losing out on anything as the story is told through cutscenes and items.

I’ve completed the first raid wing several times and the second once (Pugged it into a GASM / NA group who walked me through it). And have yet to find a good group that contained elitists. Most runs I have done are half guild / half pug and have all went smoothly. Some full pug, some full guild.

Only one ever required a gear check and also a Legendary Insight check because it was Experienced Only.

I still join PuG groups to help out too.

At that, you see ‘elitism’ because we’ve all experienced the one liar who joins and completely screws up everything because he/she refuses to admit they don’t know what they’re doing or, worse, have completely wrong gear (Sorry, you’re not going to be DPSing anything if you’re in PVT armor and you’re also pulling aggro from the tank). People want experienced individuals and post for them because of this. People running raids are generally there to get it done fast-ish without frustration.

There are plenty of guild with capable people who are willing to teach as long as you’re willing to listen. I joined one, since left it, but they walked me through everything and taught me what’s expected of the classes I can provide. Since then I’ve been invited to different groups. Plenty of groups do training runs and you can find them somewhat easily. Such as over in /r/guildwarsrecruitment on Reddit. I also see quite a few training runs going on every now and then in LFG.

You people cry so hard you make EVE Online’s Goon Swarm look like men.

WvW is a joke now.

/No

I disagree. Everyone has equal access to the line and can get it once they put enough time and effort into WvW. 115 ranks is really, really easy to obtain. You could literally do it in two or three weeks. Took me two or three months because I spent earlier points on more important things such as siege defense, etc.

Also, Applied Vit is not very strong. 2.5k extra health is literally one crit from someone with a few stacks of might. All it does is give you a little more breathing room and ability to recognize the errors you made. A split second more time to react. It also gives wiggle room for builds that may not have the ability to get the amount of health you wanted, though with a little effort in WvW, you can now have that build the way you wanted (as long as you don’t die).

It would be similar to ask for stack sigils to be nerfed too since they clearly give flat out bonuses to stats too. 10% crit chance, 250 extra power, healing power, condition damage. Just as easy to build those stacks too. Why not nerf these too? They’re easier to obtain, more efficient.

Fun times in South West camp in JQBL. Seriously had a fun reset and I have not seen fights like this in a long time, not since the first few weeks of EB/BP/AR streak. BG, you guys are relentless.

Also, anyone on JQ want to join Random Groupie and follow Night Shift around? PM me in game! Must meow like pirate ship.

Rigel.3092:

Syktek.7912:

If you really do run guardian often, remind me to avoid you as I doubt you really know how to play the class.

Any Guardian worth their weight in WvW and operating in a moderate to large group WvW zerg environment that uses SoJ needs to learn to play their class, not going off topic or anything…..

Signet of Judgement, when mass spammed (By multiple guardians), spreads weakness to the immediate area (Causing 50% of attacks to miss), stacks retaliation on all nearby friendlies. I do not use it for 10% damage reduction. Not to mention it also breaks stun.

I will not defend my usage of it past that.

Victory.2879:

‘When I play my guardian and spam 1, I hit multiple targets and have no problem with retaliation, therefore retaliation is not an issue, and ranged classes need to l2p.’ This completely ignore the regen you have, and that you receive from every wave of that staff.

‘When I play my ranged classes, firing any skill into the hammer/staff spamming melee zerg ball can instantly bring me near death with them being 1200-1500 range away, making them the best ranged class there is- take no damage (or one hit each, easily covered by regen/heals) and kill all the ranged aoe.’

That’s basically the responses here so far, apart from those sensible ones who think that retal should have a maximum proc of one time per second per person.

Personally I decided to ‘main’ an engineer before perp runes came out because the variety of builds and playstyles is great.

When I start to get tired I can jump on my guardian, spam an aoe tagging everything without any fear of retal (my regen deals with it/I get healed by everything around me/my staff attacks heal everyone) and run around in a ball stampeding over those medium and light armored people who thought that skill should outweigh staff 1. And then I can come on forums and tell people who complain about retal to l2p…..

Staff #1 does not heal the players in any form (See attachment if you’re going to call me a liar), it is only a short range directional AoE. Staff #2 heals other players (If it passes through them or the orb is detonated within a certain distance) and Staff #4 does too at the end of its animation. To mention: Staff #2 is a horrible source of healing and is only intended as support. Staff #4 is good for a heal bomb and that is about it as it will not keep you alive unless partnered with AH. If you are using Altruistic Healing you are bad and should reconsider your life style.

The guardian’s ‘perma’ Regeneration comes from a virtue that should be down most of the time if you’re playing with a group. Guardians worth their weight are usually hybrid DPS and burst their first and third virtue at the beginning of a fight (depending on build) and virture #2 (which provides the 100~ heals a second) should be popped mid battle to help out team mates who might not be doing so well. The only regen you should be getting is from boons and those only negate two or three hits.

The best source of healing on the guardian are the near constant dodges you have. Getting 750+ Healing Power and a sigil or food that keeps your stamina up at a constant rate will do you more good than any of the heals your weapon skills can give you. Every roll will hand out over 800 health to, up to, five people (Not including yourself). Yesterday I rolled at least fifteen times in a fight and gave out over 40k heals to people around me.

At that, you say that you use your staff to mark everything. The only time your staff should be out is when you are on the offensive, people are spread out or everyone around you is dying (For downed player cleanup/kill tagging). Your main weapon should be out the rest of the time

If you really do run guardian often, remind me to avoid you as I doubt you really know how to play the class.

Not to go off topic or anything.

Aberrant.6749:

Syktek.7912:

Aberrant.6749:

Syktek.7912:

Aberrant.6749:

Syktek.7912:

ITT: Engineers and Elementalists complaining about dropping AoEs on 10+ people at a time and, for some reason, are surprised to find themselves dying to a mechanic meant to discourage stupid plays.

Stop dropping your AoEs on zergs and start placing them on smaller groups of people. Learn to play, stop complaining.

As a guardian (Believe it or not, we can get hit with retaliation just as hard as anyone else thanks to our wide range of PBAoE attacks) who does zerg busting a lot and is constantly jumping into stacked balls of players. I don’t jump in and start spamming my PBAoEs, no, I auto attack until the group breaks up. I then find a smaller portion of players and use my PBAoE on them.

So with Great Sword: Jump in using #3 > Drop Symbol (little to no need to worry about retaliation when it comes to symbols, since they pulse and only it five players at a time) > #1 for a few seconds > Group splits up > Hit #5 and pull some people together > Hit #2 and deal a nice amount of damage on up to five people without having to worry much about retaliation.

If I had simply jumped in and started spinning with #2 (Whirling Wrath) I would have died immediately because of retaliation. I have done this multiple times though I learned my lesson and moved on.

Play smart, stop complaining.

(Edit) Edits have been made.

In addition to this, it’s not very hard to test groups who might have retaliation (If you’re too lazy to check the boons of enemy players). Things like auto attacking with your pistol (Engi) or staff auto attack with fire attunement (Eli). Both explode and cause a small amount of AoE damage, however are not continuous. As a Guardian, I test these waters with symbols which pulse, as stated, and allow me to see if those I am about to spam a PBAoE are decced out with retaliation.

One or two pistol auto attack =‘s “stupid play” and eng should be downed for that?… yet multiple attacks from a guard (not just auto) isn’t and they shouldn’t be downed for it… and this is just due to playing smart and not a balance issue? “Testing” with a pistol on eng can take off most of the eng’s hp in a singe shot btw (because of the mechanics of the pistols)… so… I 100% disagree. This just seems like another it’s ok for my class it’s… so it’s fine for everyone type of thread without knowing the other classes.

As someone who played around with an engineer in WvW before I had no issue with retaliation while shooting into zergs with a pistol. This was on an upscale too. So maybe your build just sucks? If you’re running around with a low health build on an engineer you deserve to die.

Nah, I just know the mechanics and what happens if you use piercing pistols. It just helps illustrate what’s wrong with retal atm. It doesn’t have any sort of damage cap. I’m all for it punishing players (just like confusion) but it needs a cap on how much a player can take (like confusion does).

I know the mechanics of piercing pistols too and still disagree with you. You should not be dying at all to a few shots into a zerg as not everyone will have retaliation on, so not every single explosion will proc retal, and you should have more than 20k health (15 × 300-500 is not going to hurt so badly, specially since, as stated, not everyone of those 15 is going to have retal.).

I could agree on a cap, though no where near what has been talked about. If you reduced it to a timed cool down after every retaliation hit, people would be careless. Reducing the damage wouldn’t do much because people will still manage to nuke themselves with it even if you do bring it down to 20 per tick.

If there was an internal cool down type of deal, this is what I would like to see: Retaliation can only proc up to ten times before going on a ten second cool down for said player. Or something along the lines of that.

What tier are you in where you’re only hitting 15 retal ticks with a piercing attack that explodes every time you pierce? o.O

Even if it was only 15 retal ticks (I guess it was a small group) that’s still more damage than 25 stacks of confusion. That’s not impossible to deal with though.

I think that 10 times per 10s is a bit weak tbh… like… I’m not even asking for that much. 10 times per 2s would be a VAST improvement.

15 was a number I pulled out of my kitten to just give an example. If you fire a round into a group, you’re going to hit a set amount of people and not all of them will have retaliation.

I’ve played on several Tiers. Currently on T1 (Recent transfer to JQ to follow NS).

Aberrant.6749:

Syktek.7912:

Aberrant.6749:

Syktek.7912:

ITT: Engineers and Elementalists complaining about dropping AoEs on 10+ people at a time and, for some reason, are surprised to find themselves dying to a mechanic meant to discourage stupid plays.

Stop dropping your AoEs on zergs and start placing them on smaller groups of people. Learn to play, stop complaining.

As a guardian (Believe it or not, we can get hit with retaliation just as hard as anyone else thanks to our wide range of PBAoE attacks) who does zerg busting a lot and is constantly jumping into stacked balls of players. I don’t jump in and start spamming my PBAoEs, no, I auto attack until the group breaks up. I then find a smaller portion of players and use my PBAoE on them.

So with Great Sword: Jump in using #3 > Drop Symbol (little to no need to worry about retaliation when it comes to symbols, since they pulse and only it five players at a time) > #1 for a few seconds > Group splits up > Hit #5 and pull some people together > Hit #2 and deal a nice amount of damage on up to five people without having to worry much about retaliation.

If I had simply jumped in and started spinning with #2 (Whirling Wrath) I would have died immediately because of retaliation. I have done this multiple times though I learned my lesson and moved on.

Play smart, stop complaining.

(Edit) Edits have been made.

In addition to this, it’s not very hard to test groups who might have retaliation (If you’re too lazy to check the boons of enemy players). Things like auto attacking with your pistol (Engi) or staff auto attack with fire attunement (Eli). Both explode and cause a small amount of AoE damage, however are not continuous. As a Guardian, I test these waters with symbols which pulse, as stated, and allow me to see if those I am about to spam a PBAoE are decced out with retaliation.

One or two pistol auto attack =‘s “stupid play” and eng should be downed for that?… yet multiple attacks from a guard (not just auto) isn’t and they shouldn’t be downed for it… and this is just due to playing smart and not a balance issue? “Testing” with a pistol on eng can take off most of the eng’s hp in a singe shot btw (because of the mechanics of the pistols)… so… I 100% disagree. This just seems like another it’s ok for my class it’s… so it’s fine for everyone type of thread without knowing the other classes.

As someone who played around with an engineer in WvW before I had no issue with retaliation while shooting into zergs with a pistol. This was on an upscale too. So maybe your build just sucks? If you’re running around with a low health build on an engineer you deserve to die.

Nah, I just know the mechanics and what happens if you use piercing pistols. It just helps illustrate what’s wrong with retal atm. It doesn’t have any sort of damage cap. I’m all for it punishing players (just like confusion) but it needs a cap on how much a player can take (like confusion does).

I know the mechanics of piercing pistols too and still disagree with you. You should not be dying at all to a few shots into a zerg as not everyone will have retaliation on, so not every single explosion will proc retal, and you should have more than 20k health (15 × 300-500 is not going to hurt so badly, specially since, as stated, not everyone of those 15 is going to have retal.).

I could agree on a cap, though no where near what has been talked about. If you reduced it to a timed cool down after every retaliation hit, people would be careless. Reducing the damage wouldn’t do much because people will still manage to nuke themselves with it even if you do bring it down to 20 per tick.

If there was an internal cool down type of deal, this is what I would like to see: Retaliation can only proc up to ten times before going on a ten second cool down for said player. Or something along the lines of that.

Aberrant.6749:

Syktek.7912:

ITT: Engineers and Elementalists complaining about dropping AoEs on 10+ people at a time and, for some reason, are surprised to find themselves dying to a mechanic meant to discourage stupid plays.

Stop dropping your AoEs on zergs and start placing them on smaller groups of people. Learn to play, stop complaining.

As a guardian (Believe it or not, we can get hit with retaliation just as hard as anyone else thanks to our wide range of PBAoE attacks) who does zerg busting a lot and is constantly jumping into stacked balls of players. I don’t jump in and start spamming my PBAoEs, no, I auto attack until the group breaks up. I then find a smaller portion of players and use my PBAoE on them.

So with Great Sword: Jump in using #3 > Drop Symbol (little to no need to worry about retaliation when it comes to symbols, since they pulse and only it five players at a time) > #1 for a few seconds > Group splits up > Hit #5 and pull some people together > Hit #2 and deal a nice amount of damage on up to five people without having to worry much about retaliation.

If I had simply jumped in and started spinning with #2 (Whirling Wrath) I would have died immediately because of retaliation. I have done this multiple times though I learned my lesson and moved on.

Play smart, stop complaining.

(Edit) Edits have been made.

In addition to this, it’s not very hard to test groups who might have retaliation (If you’re too lazy to check the boons of enemy players). Things like auto attacking with your pistol (Engi) or staff auto attack with fire attunement (Eli). Both explode and cause a small amount of AoE damage, however are not continuous. As a Guardian, I test these waters with symbols which pulse, as stated, and allow me to see if those I am about to spam a PBAoE are decced out with retaliation.

One or two pistol auto attack =‘s “stupid play” and eng should be downed for that?… yet multiple attacks from a guard (not just auto) isn’t and they shouldn’t be downed for it… and this is just due to playing smart and not a balance issue? “Testing” with a pistol on eng can take off most of the eng’s hp in a singe shot btw (because of the mechanics of the pistols)… so… I 100% disagree. This just seems like another it’s ok for my class it’s… so it’s fine for everyone type of thread without knowing the other classes.

As someone who played around with an engineer in WvW before I had no issue with retaliation while shooting into zergs with a pistol. This was on an upscale too. So maybe your build just sucks? If you’re running around with a low health build on an engineer you deserve to die.

ITT: Engineers and Elementalists complaining about dropping AoEs on 10+ people at a time and, for some reason, are surprised to find themselves dying to a mechanic meant to discourage stupid plays.

Stop dropping your AoEs on zergs and start placing them on smaller groups of people. Learn to play, stop complaining.

As a guardian (Believe it or not, we can get hit with retaliation just as hard as anyone else thanks to our wide range of PBAoE attacks) who does zerg busting a lot and is constantly jumping into stacked balls of players. I don’t jump in and start spamming my PBAoEs, no, I auto attack until the group breaks up. I then find a smaller portion of players and use my PBAoE on them.

So with Great Sword: Jump in using #3 > Drop Symbol (little to no need to worry about retaliation when it comes to symbols, since they pulse and only it five players at a time) > #1 for a few seconds > Group splits up > Hit #5 and pull some people together > Hit #2 and deal a nice amount of damage on up to five people without having to worry much about retaliation.

If I had simply jumped in and started spinning with #2 (Whirling Wrath) I would have died immediately because of retaliation. I have done this multiple times though I learned my lesson and moved on.

Play smart, stop complaining.

(Edit) Edits have been made.

In addition to this, it’s not very hard to test groups who might have retaliation (If you’re too lazy to check the boons of enemy players). Things like auto attacking with your pistol (Engi) or staff auto attack with fire attunement (Eli). Both explode and cause a small amount of AoE damage, however are not continuous. As a Guardian, I test these waters with symbols which pulse, as stated, and allow me to see if those I am about to spam a PBAoE are decced out with retaliation.

justkoh.4073:

We now know that if the humans in Ascalon and Orr had made their city gates only accessible by clearing a Jumping Puzzle, the Charr would never had won.

Only JP I’ve ever had an issue with is Troll’s End (The whole thing is very, very narrow) in LA. I only have Charr characters.

Jump Puzzles are relatively easy on a Charr. I think you people are just angry because we block your view and cause you to fail them. I totally never did this on purpose during the Christmas JP to troll people. Stand on the right spots and watch everyone take a tumble before finishing it with ease. Was a fun JP, completed it over 100 times.