Guild Wars 2

TheFool.4589:

So in conclusion, with the evidence presented. The jury will now take a vote on who was right in this given situation.

All in favor of defending Anets actions say “Anet”

All in favor of defending “AFKers” say “afk”

That is all you get from this discussion? Anet took the wrong action. What they did failed to address the root problem.

It is akin to banning people using the snowflake craft exploit… while leaving the mechanics of doing it ingame. It is like banning people for buying karma weapons too cheaply and converting them… but not changing the karma price.

A witch hunt is not an acceptable solution, regardless of the entertainment value “some” seem to get from it.

mercury ranique.2170:

Teofa, there is a lot of rubbish in this thread, but several people have allready showed, with links to the user agreement, that those people’s job is to kick/suspend others. They have those tools for a reason and they have been acting within the user agreement everyone agreed with, and are actually making sure people are acting within that user agreementr instead of outside. They aredoing their job and it is not their own personal definition. They are doing their job and personally I say they are doing an excellent job.

Sorry, but any sensible problem solver would look at the LA issue differently.

1. Why are these people here AFK? Because they can get a reward for it.
2. Why can they get a reward AFK? Because there is no participation check.
3. How do we address this?
A. Add a participation check.
or
B. Station employees in each instance to kick and suspend people “suspected” of being AFK on the spot.

I know which solution I would use. I know which solution is impartial, practical, and does not rely on unsubstantiated impression. I know which solution would not create hostility, appearance of favoritism, or place my employees in an unfavorable light.

shrug.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

JT, I actually love to debate these people. That’s why I prefer them to continue to complain. But really, I find part of it as a challenge of trying to get them to come up with good points to defend their positions. A healthy debate is the best kind, because those are the ones Anet listens to. Unfortunately, the main argument is “because Anet didn’t tell me I can’t”. That makes me sad, because then I win debates without effort.

With anything, there needs to be a valid point to an argument. My points are defending Anet, so mostly my argument are correct by default. If there’s something I agree with, and someone else doesn’t, they need to bring something solid to the table. Kinda like how the CDIs are. You state your idea or opinion, and also provide a reasoning for it.

I’m hopeful someone here arguing for AFKer’s rights will step up. Cheap shots and personal attacks do nothing to me, except to solidify the fact that I’m right.

You are the one narrowly twisting it to AFK rights. You are narrowly focused on a single aspect of the zone, and a single task.. saving civilians. So much so that you see a need to punish anyone and everyone who is not actively on that task, AFK or not.

You claimed earlier that you could get me a 72 hour suspension just from being immobile… and at the keys. And you would try, because being AFK isn’t your issue, your issue is forcing people to participate in a single aspect of an open zone.

There are many reasons to be immobile and appearing to not be participating for several minutes. But.. you don’t care. I have severe arthritus in my hands. I do things for 20-30 mins and rest my hands for 5-10. You are telling me to forfeit that zone, totally because I might have to stand till for a while.

I’m sorry. Participation is better forced by impartial mechanics. Kill x scarlet’s minions, talk to x civilians, whatever. As long as people met those conditions reward would be given. Simple.. and how it should have been implemented. Instead, all Anet requires for reward, for this task.. is to be there. Nothing more. You can argue “as intended” till blue in the face.. but that is the fact. So, instead of a simple game check you have people reporting, raging, and coercing Devs to boot people instead of an actual solution. More community building I guess.

I am not arguing some idiotic notion such as AFK rights. I am arguing that capricious suspensions of people based on spot assumptions is not the solution to the participation/rewards issue. Impartial game mechanics are the answer. Mechanics that could.. and should have been implemented. The last thing this game needs is one segment of the population (and a dev or two, apparently) gleefully “punishing” people over an oversight in how an event was implemented.

Arguing “as intended”, unless you were in on the developer decisions, is fail by the player base.. unless “as intended” is defined by information by the Developer.. or by game mechanics. It is up to the Developer to insure “as intended” by mechanics and design, not by knee jerk reaction suspensions while leaving the event unchanged.

And on a tangent.. I suppose it could be safely said that this game “as intended” would not have private instanced world events. So.. it could be argued that TTS, by manipulating overflows, Taxi, etc and essentially “creating” a private instance is not playing “as intended” either. See how player speculation works, Exploiter? (sarcasm)

And I know you will read this and see nothing but “blah blah AFK rights” So whatever.

Further, you are never “right by default”. Agreeing with what you “perceive” as Anet’s positions is not, ever… the same as Anet’s position until it has been stated by a Red Name.. on these forums.

Pardon, I’m not buying the guy in the Quaggan tonic, on his day off, playing sheriff on Blackgate as any sort of “Official” stance until his actions are justified in public.. on these forums. I don’t care what his Title is TBH. Unprofessional harrassment for any cause is poor judgement. He made it a show… and made sure everyone in the zone knew what he was doing, and who was targeted. He made his suspensions public and ridiculed the targets while doing so. So much for keeping things private? You know.. the part where we are not notified of action on reports? Every MMO I have ever played has an “Invisible” GM mode.. why was that not used?

But carry on. Vendettas are fun I guess.

And in closing I would also point out that up to this.. I’ve never found Anet moderators, CS, GMs or any employees to be less than Impartial and Professional, not in GW, not here. Gaile is one of the finest CS people I’ve ever seen. This is not a general “I hates Anet” perspective.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I think they read it. They didn’t agree with you, and that’s their prerogative. You don’t get to be the end all be all of knowledge. That’s for the devs.

Edit: also I agree with Leo, if there is a change in policy, devs need to be transparent about it.

Oh no, I agree. Anet is the final say to any and all things in game. While debating this issue, I pointed out mechanics and provided examples to support my argument. Everything I stated makes more sense than “it’s not written in the User Agreement, so it’s ok to do”.

Keep in mind many players have been perma-banned or had suspensions for abusing unintended mechanics. Cheap Karma weapons, salvaging Exotic jewels, etc. None of that was specifically stated in the rules, yet they all fall under the blanket term of “abuse” or “cheat”.

So ask yourselves this: “If I can get a reward worth hundreds of Gold for standing around for 45 minutes, is that what Anet intended for the event?” Debate that topic, rather than trying to counter me.

In those cases, Anet disabled the content, investigated, punished the “Worst” abusers and made the information known to all.

They have yet to address anything on the LA “issue”, and did in fact implement the event with no participation required. They haven’t changed that. They haven’t announced anything re AFK in LA. They have not responded to it in any official manner out of game. They have not given a rules framework.. ie.. 5 mins inactive, 10, 15, nothing. No rules to go by. As it stands now, you could participate 30 mins, take a short break… and be suspended upon the whim of whoever sees you standing still with no real investigation done.

What has happened is one.. perhaps 2 Anet employees have taken it upon themselves to “police” the event by handing out suspensions for macro use or offensive behavior, apparently on their own time and on the spot snap decisions.

But you hit on the crux of the matter for you I think. A remote chance at an item worth “hundreds of gold”. It isn’t about citizen rescues at all… is it. It’s about your bag farming, and resentment that somewhere, someone may get the item you wanted..by not playing YOUR way. That thought makes me warm and fuzzy, actually.

As far as whether Anet “intended” it… they coded it. No participation needed. A person doing a JP will get it. A person taking screenshots, exploring, doing Vistas will get it. A zerg farming champs will get it. A person only doing other activities will get it. You do not have to rescue to get rescue rewards. Seems fairly clear.. and if not “intended”, then, fixable by other means than capricious suspensions.

But you seem fine with capricious, summary, inconsistant suspensions.. because you have preordained that anyone who gets one.. is “offensive” and deserves it, no matter the circumstances. GG.

Well it’s a circular argument now, with a refusal to address the actual issue by the usual suspects. So, I’m done, carry on.

Perhaps someday when I am miffed we lose Garrison with 10 AFKs at our spawn I can call my own personal dev and have them suspended for offending me? Because basically, this is what happened. Spin it however you like. (scarcasm. AfK people don’t affect my game.. it’s a game)

Watch what can of worms you open folks.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

How is it separate?

You seem to skip over the explanations, so I’ll quote myself so it’s easier for you to find.

deleted unrelated repost.

[/quote]

And you skip over context and pick phrases out of context to somehow prove your points.

Here is my entire statement.

How is it separate? If being inactive during events in LA is somehow “offensive behavior” how then is it not “offensive behavior” for all events in all zones at all times.

That is how you set policy. Consistent enforcement, consistent rule, transparent and clear definition of what is deemed “offensive behavior” game wide.

If you wish to comment on the entirety of the statement, Please do.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

It is not for you to determine ANET Policy.

Chris the security head, visits our TS every now and then for runs. He’s taken his own time outside of work to clarify what’s not allowed, so I’ll PM him to ask for clarification on AFKs during events.

.

And this from the reddit thread. " Devs also do that to blatant afkers in TTS runs. Yay devs!"

So, apparently TTS has access to a dev who will remove/suspend people appearing to be AFK from instances upon request to make room for more TTS. Cozy.

To make it clear, TTS doesn’t ask for favors from the Devs who run with us. What you’re quoting is based on assumptions from a single player on the map. For all we know, the AFKer DC’d, thus allowing more people to taxi in. We may joke with Devs in map chat, but at no point has any one of them told us they kicked an AFKer.

Now kicking during the rescue event in LA, that’s completely separate.

How is it separate? If being inactive during events in LA is somehow “offensive behavior” how then is it not “offensive behavior” for all events in all zones at all times.

That is how you set policy. Consistent enforcement, consistent rule, transparent and clear definition of what is deemed “offensive behavior” game wide.

You do not make policy by determining you want to remove people and then find a rule that works only by an extremely broad interpretation. You don’t make policy “on the spot”, you don’t allow employees to make up policy on the fly.

Once you make a decision that behavior common throughout the game is now “offensive behavior” you relay that fact to your player base. You don’t hang around in a Quaggan potion gleefully bouncing players who have no clue why.

This was terribly unprofessional.

And saying this.. my account is now probably in jeopardy. Oh Well.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

It is not for you to determine ANET Policy.

Chris the security head, visits our TS every now and then for runs. He’s taken his own time outside of work to clarify what’s not allowed, so I’ll PM him to ask for clarification on AFKs during events.

.

And this from the reddit thread. " Devs also do that to blatant afkers in TTS runs. Yay devs!"

So, apparently TTS has access to a dev who will remove/suspend people appearing to be AFK from instances upon request to make room for more TTS. Cozy.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Define the AFK policy.

AFK stands for Away From Keyboard. So if you’re AFK while an event takes place, and you get full credit for it, that’s a cheat/exploit of mechanics. Anet did not intend for players to just all stand around during a “Rescue” event. The very requirement of said “Rescue” event is that you go around saving citizens… hence the word “Rescue”.

I’m not sure why you’re so adamant with being allowed to AFK and gain max rewards. Perhaps you’ve been a victim of the mystery kick? All I know is that when Devs and GMs run with us, we respect them as we would any player. They don’t grant us favors. They don’t abuse their powers to help us. Heck, as it’s been stated, all actions are logged. So if someone were to activate the holy powers to smite AFKers taking up space on a map with a finite amount of player slots, I’m inclined to thank them by spending money on the Gem Store.

I look forward to running more events while this LS is active, and will be reporting more people standing around doing nothing. It’s within my player given rights to report these players, as is their rights to dispute any suspensions with Customer Support.

It is not for you to determine ANET Policy. I don’t AFK myself. My issue is the manner in which suspensions were given, and the attitude among some players that they somehow have the right to both interpret ANET policy and tell other players to abide by their skewed interpretations.

Twist my statements all you wish. Your problem lies with people NOT participating in the Rescue event… for whatever reasons. This is spite of many, many reasons to be in LA that have nothing to do with rescues and many many legitimate reasons to appear to be “doing nothing” for several minutes at a time.

I am done with you until you can link ANET policy on AFK that is NOT 3rd party macros, link Policy from Anet stating that non participation is bannable, link ANY Anet policy that supports your extreme position.

I will repeat, I don’t AFK, I haven’t had a game ban or suspension since I started MMOs in 2003. You are not going to make an argument by smearing me. I am opposed to the manner in which these suspensions occured, the reason given (alleged use of macros), no investigation, and concerned that it seemed to be the work of a single individual. FAIRNESS AND TRANSPARENCY.

One line in the linked reddit chat concerns me. "[–]RovingSpirit 6 points 4 hours ago

Devs also do that to blatant afkers in TTS runs. Yay devs!"

Don’t even know how to comment on that except.. wow. And my first thought, unfortunately, was.. more of the same?

They have yet to announce a single thing officially regarding AFK policy for this event or any others. AFK… not running a “macro” or 3rd party.

and this.. “and will be reporting more people standing around doing nothing” Aren’t you too busy with rescues? So.. anyone standing around as you pass by gets reported? Or what? You going to send them a tell? Make any effort at all not to falsely report? You do know that abuse of the report function is Bannable?

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

This event rewards presence, not participation, and there is not a thing you can do about it.

Sure there is!
A quick screenshot when we enter, another as we leave showing you standing in the same spot, then a quick support ticket can give you a nice 72 hour suspension.

One what grounds, if I am at the keys? Keep trying.

Furthermore, no reputable game bans by screenshot evidence alone. Or solely upon player input without investigation. But you can dream, go ahead.

And to make myself clear, I don’t afk anything. I just don’t buy rabid vigilantism.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

It is not your call to “be completely fine” with what other players do. It is an open zone. If a new AFK policy needs to be in place, it should be in the TOS, effect all zones and all meta events, and be equally enforced throughout the game and not driven by players looking at one aspect of a zone full of different options and goals.

Gaining rewards with no effort is equivalent to “cheating”.

User Agreement:

8. PROHIBITED AND IRREPARABLY HARMFUL ACTIVITIES CONCERNING NCSOFT

d) Use, or provide others with, any “hack,” “cheat,” “exploit” or “mod”

LOL. Big stretch there. What you are attempting to defend is nothing about “cheating” and instead attempting to enforce “participation” in an event designed to reward without it.

As the event is designed, a person can enter, do nothing, and be totally unactionable if at the keys. “Gaining rewards with no effort” is in the design. By your definition of “cheat” anyone can “cheat”, legally, at the keys. This event rewards presence, not participation, and there is not a thing you can do about it.

The suspensions reek. I report bots, and understand they don’t immediately “poof”, as things require investigation and proof. These suspensions were done “on the spot” with an accusation of using a 3rd party mod or macro.. without investigation. It reeks of vigilantism. The time the suspensions were done, on a non working day, by what looks like a single Anet employee reeks of someone motivated by some outraged fellow players rather than an Anet policy being put in place.

Anet needs to Fix the Events. Define the AFK policy.

Stop attempting to force “your way” on other players.

The saddest thing about this is.. there isn’t even an achievement for 1200 rescues. You are raging over farming a bag.

Ashadow.6874:

I disagree entirely.

If someone were to be trying to finish a JP or following a Taco killing things (keeping citizens alive), or even doing Rubble Runs. They are playing the Event AS INTENDED.

Rubble Runs are INTENDED. Doing JPs or getting WPS/POIs in Lion’s Arch, are INTENDED.

AFK’ing for the sole purpose of doing NOTHING, in a PvE zone, just to get free rewards is NOT INTENDED behavior. When Lion’s Arch was a city, it was intended people AFK for hours. Now that it is an instance that you get BOOTED OUT OF at the end of. It is not intended that you AFK in Lion’s Arch for hours on end.

The act of entering Lion’s Arch just to AFK and leech, is not intended game mechanics. (Just because you can do it, does not mean you should be doing it. Just because I can “loiter” in real life, doesn’t mean I can’t be told to “move along” or be fined for it.)

Intended. Bold it all you want. On this forum there are complaints asking for zergs to be targeted with jesus beams. Complaints about Rubble runners. Complaints about bag farmers. Suggestions that no rewards be given unless a player does “x”. In short.. the usual.

Everyone has a different take on “as intended”. It depends on that persons goal. There is no universal for a zone full of activities that by their very nature are at odds with other activities. A person going in to just look around and avoid everything is “as intended” for that player.. even if they happen to leach rewards. It is an open zone.

AFK players do not impact the zerg, bag farmers, poi hunting, events, sightseeing, JPs. They are seen to impact Civ counts.. a single aspect of “intended” play. If you remove every AFK player from the zone, the people doing 1200 counts would complain re people doing any other activity, and in fact, they already are and are suggesting “remedies” to force saving civilians. See… for them doing anything but saving civilians isn’t “intended”.

I don’t believe in AFK. I do believe in a fair, consistent, and understandable standard of acceptable play. Rather than knee-jerk one event with capricious enforcement, rewrite the AFK rules and enforce them in all pve zones, period. Sorry, but this is coming off to me as overzealous spot enforcement of AFKs due solely to the nature of the event. Set a standard, make it uniform, and enforce it everywhere.

Ah, but you played the IRL card. I am defeated.

Is there any effort being made to integrate the Destruction of LA into the larger game?

Havens are still protecting trade to LA. Lionguards in the world are protecting trade routes to LA. They allude to this in chat, in heart letters, in flavor text. At this time, they are blissfully unaware of any pressing problems in LA.

Also, flavor text in general. I laughed for 5 minutes when the Claypool Villager announced they wanted to move to LA “to be safer”.

A world changing event should… change the world perhaps?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

On the live servers, special Dev abilities (like immortality or teleportation) are limited to GMs, and all dev commands are logged and reviewed to make sure no one is abusing the system. The integrity of our live servers is very important to us.

It’s a shame Chris can’t use the immortality to help us kite a Wurm into the wall. Darn these morals! :P

But yeah, I’m very glad the GMs take the time to kick AFK leechers. I would go as far as calling them exploiters, since they’re abusing an in game mechanic that supposed to reward for rescue participation. Getting full credit for 1200+ rescue rewards while AFK is like buying Rare weapons for 10 Karma.

Over react much? AFK has been a part of every open meta, and never addressed until now, since it is perceived to be effecting Farmfest 2014. It has been an issue since launch and ignored. Some people are doing what they have done, with impunity, for more than a year. Now it’s an enforceable issue? Cuz bags?

Calm the rhetoric. I’d rather see 5 afks at the port in then deal with dumb zergs scaling every escort to champ level and ignoring civs.

Not sure you understand what’s going on here. When we do mass guild runs, each one of us is putting in efforts to help the server we guest to get the 1200+ loot drops. Even if there’s only 5 AFKers, each of those AFK players reap the benefits of our hard work. I’m completely fine with newbie players only doing what they can to help, since they’re actually doing something. But to let a character sit for 45 minutes and benefit for free, my opinion is that’s close to an exploit in the mechanics. But I’m sure it would be difficult for Anet to alter the way loot is rewarded without causing problems.

TTS back patting? Well, technically, every person that zones in to do a JP, explore the zone, do Achieve Events, hunt rubble is ALSO reaping the benefits of “your hard work” and not working on the civ counter. People mindlessly hitting 1 hugging a dorito are also “leaching” your civilian count.

You want GMs to also enforce those people to play “your way”?

It is not your call to “be completely fine” with what other players do. It is an open zone. If a new AFK policy needs to be in place, it should be in the TOS, effect all zones and all meta events, and be equally enforced throughout the game and not driven by players looking at one aspect of a zone full of different options and goals.

Im not in favor of unattended play, but this is all just “new event, different scapegoat”. Can’t blame bearbows, zerks, bads, etc so.. omg its all the AFK people’s fault!!

Blame. It’s what this “community” does.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

On the live servers, special Dev abilities (like immortality or teleportation) are limited to GMs, and all dev commands are logged and reviewed to make sure no one is abusing the system. The integrity of our live servers is very important to us.

It’s a shame Chris can’t use the immortality to help us kite a Wurm into the wall. Darn these morals! :P

But yeah, I’m very glad the GMs take the time to kick AFK leechers. I would go as far as calling them exploiters, since they’re abusing an in game mechanic that supposed to reward for rescue participation. Getting full credit for 1200+ rescue rewards while AFK is like buying Rare weapons for 10 Karma.

Over react much? AFK has been a part of every open meta, and never addressed until now, since it is perceived to be effecting Farmfest 2014. It has been an issue since launch and ignored. Some people are doing what they have done, with impunity, for more than a year. Now it’s an enforceable issue? Cuz bags?

Calm the rhetoric. I’d rather see 5 afks at the port in then deal with dumb zergs scaling every escort to champ level and ignoring civs.

A fine example of the problem with RP, is it full of roleplayers who take themselves far too seriously.

There is always a certain few who declare themselves the RP police. Then they wonder why RP numbers decline.

And as to the OP.. there are certain types of “lore”, historical and cultural.. that should never be retconned or ignored.

In GW the Searing happened. Shiro happened. Glint was benevolent. Varesh Ossa tried to bring Nightfall. Khibron happened. A few examples of things that should not be changed, rewritten, or ignored. There are many others.

You can impose a different viewpoint on history, as the Sons of Svanir have re Svanir and Jora. Someone could admire Varesh Ossa. I still can’t stand Charr, regardless of the evolution of Tyria. But none of that changes the base lore.

Steel Fenrir.2791:

You have to take into consideration the scaling in Guild Wars as well as in other games. What seemed to be a party of 8 people facing off against the Lich Lord in Hell’s Precipice (Guild Wars 1 Prophecies final mission battle) might actually be hundreds or thousands of soldiers, with you being one of them or even as an officer. What seemed to be 150 soldiers dealing with the threat of the Ancient Wurm might actually be hundreds, even thousands of soldiers canonically. Likewise, what seemed to be a single person being rescued might actually represent a whole family or a group of survivors.

Huh. Hells Precipice was a party of 8. I was there. When there needed to be more, there was more, Dzagonur Bastion, Consulate Docks. Battle of Lions Arch GW we had a sizable number of NPC help.

This is the silliest explanation/theory I have ever read. You are saying that all games only show your actions as a microcosm of the actual event, one cog in a cast of hundreds or thousands of unknowns regardless of context?

Really. And “Canon”? You seem to forget the Flameseeker Prophecies. It wasn’t about a cast of thousands. Or hundreds.

Alice.8694:

If you played on a less populated server, this wouldn’t be an issue.

Because some of the content wouldn’t be done at all.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hero_%28achievements%29

Wow, what a bunch of snarky responses to a pretty obvious typo. GG “non toxic community”, so very clever.

It is nothing like GW survivor, you earn it by earning 500,000 exp in a single zone in a single play session without dying. No zoning, no log out.

The Pact did not fight Scarlet, there was no resistance from anyone at all to the attack.

It was not in the script. They felt that Scarlet had to destroy LA to make her believable, and LA died to do so. As far as making players “care” well, I guess that’s why it is now called the LA Farm by most, not even a battle now.

When an outcome is predetermined there is no point asking how or why. Doesn’t matter, and any answer given will be contrived and after the fact. Lore and plot holes will be glossed over and retconned to suit the script. (if they bother)

Personal story is now set in current Destroyed LA. Not much care was taken, obviously.

Whoever finds the Tomb of Linen is hitting the jackpot.

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Nice to see that pro-Anet toxicity is unmoderated.

Yeah, community standards.

As opposed to the endless torrent of raging anti-Anet vitriol, bile and venom that gets spewed ad infinitum and ad nauseum…

Yeah, promoting that double standard.

Not really. I’ve never seen, yet, a complaint that told everyone that “liked” something to uninstall and go play another game. Legit or not, it is one thing to comment on game, gameplay and features, and something quite different to generally attack people who make those complaints.

On the whole I see more personal attacks upon “complainers” than I see personal attacks on people who like things.

Basically its “I don’t like this” responded to with “you are a horrid person, go away”

I have a hard time applying the term “High Fantasy” to Cartoonish.

I understand that tastes vary, but call it what it is.

Target Market. Because a big percentage of those who will cry “No WoW” in GW actually DO want WoW gear.

Not all of the Moletariat follow the exact same doctrine.

In Dredgehaunt they remain dedicated Linenists.

How about a title that says “Battle for LA- 2nd Place”

Make every noob zone 80 and permakill em at the spawn points!!!!

LIVING WORLD!!!! Make em CARE!!!

Seems people forget new players….but the game is going to need em when the top tier gets sick of farming back items.

How do you talk “morality” when some folks are claiming 40k LA citizens dead?

High price for a backpiece and some tonics.

here is another screenie. Really makes the PS seem pointless.

Lore breaking… What’s worse, the armor, or the fact that I am standing in Destroyed LA doing a PS set before Zhaitan’s fall?

(edited to blank out how I really felt. I apologize to anyone that saw the uncensored image)

Laryakan.1684:

In GW1 Factions, you should become “Closer to the Stars”, the “Factions” equivalent to Prophecies “Ascended”. But zodiacal bodies was only for mobs during this questline, explained by shorter frontiere through “The Mists”. But Zodiacal creatures wasnt “alive”. In GW1 you could loot Zodiac Weapons on those mobs.

Magical thing in Tyria (the world, not the continent) are explained by the Bloodstones. Zodiac and other stuff by “The Mists”. Zodiac Armors bought by players in a cash shop are Lore Breaking. If only they earned it though a quest in “The Mists” to become “Closer to the Stars”… But no, then it’s Lore Breaking.

Does a cash shop with very very high magical stuff is lore breaking ? Yes.
Does we could see something like that in GW1 ? No. Because GW2 is not here to please fans, only to make money. But this is another story.

EDIT : Yes on this pic, Dwayna is wearing something close the the actual zodiac armor. But nobody is astonished ? Players looks like a GOD, but you’re saying to me it’s not lore breaking ??

If you are gonna do complaints on Lore Breaking, better get caught up on Bloodstones first. They can break any lore they want to, and have proven it. An armor skin is nothing.

At this point worrying about “Lore Breaking” is really nonsensical.

And if Anet cared about making it “lore”, two lines in an blog post or casual statement in an interview would make it so.

Concern about lore is not Anet’s priority at all, LS is ample proof of that.

Are you kidding? Predetermined outcome. Period. It would not have mattered whoever won.

In fact, I think Ellen “won” because of that too. Shoehorning Scarlet into an abbadon fractal would have been impossible even for Leylines McCoy, and they seem determined to rid themselves of the 6 gods and GW1 residue in this game.

my Icy Norn warrior

Elrey.5472:

something more powerful and awesome than scarlet, in a word: Dragon.

Oink the wonder pig in GW is more awesome than Scarlet.

The sole reason is, we were not scripted to be there. No need to make up excuses for the story team at all. We were deemed “not necessary” for that part of the story.

very simple. Doesn’t matter if the attack was fast, slow, had a pet parade or trumpeters heralding their approach. We weren’t there. We were not supposed to be there.

We were presented with it after the fact so speculation regarding the actual attack can only be determined by a very small cinema clip.

Yah, Scarlets chest. Does she really need to be more endowed than any other sylvari too?

I mean, I know she is better than everyone at everything but this is overkill.

Oh.. wait.. those chests. Nevermind.

Vol.7601:

I love how OP talks about no mention of dragons in this story arc.

Oh sweet summer child..

Oh, sweet reality… there has been no dragon in this story arc save one scrawled on a cave roof. Unless you are counting the Teq sideshow revamp of existing content.

not saying there will not be.. but up to now… no. And it is safe to say LA was destroyed without one present. We saw the event.

Carighan.6758:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

The success of what game paid for this game? Or put another way.. no GW, no GW2. I have said before, and repeat, they should be praying this game has the longevity and player loyalty GW did (and has).

Few games are worthy of significant praise, and for highly specific reasons. GW1 isn’t one of them. It didn’t really do anything out of the ordinary.

I guess, at that line, I quit giving credence to anything else you have to say and see no need to explain the obvious.

I should have stated earlier, I agree with the OP and particularly with her/his follow up post.

Carighan.6758:

Yes, this isn’t Guild Wars 1.

Which is a good thing. If it were Guild Wars 1, it’d never be as successful as it is. And the developers at ANet ultimately have to get money to get some food, so success is something I very very much wish for them. And GW2 is doing pretty well.

Also, GW1 had a horrendously toxic community. It shows in GW2 partially on the forums and partially in sPvP, but it seems for the most part, we managed to get rid of it in the transition.

The success of what game paid for this game? Or put another way.. no GW, no GW2. I have said before, and repeat, they should be praying this game has the longevity and player loyalty GW did (and has).

Toxic community? Ranger bashing, Dungeon elitism, rage at marionette fails, rage on “champ trains” and w/e. Toxicity is part and parcel of every MMO if you are in the wrong spot “doing the wrong thing”.

Forum toxicity? Depends on who you disagree with. Fans can be as toxic as the naysayers and often are. Perspective.

And re the ruins of Old LA.. it was a small area. A little fountain. Some steps. Little things GW vets looked at fondly.. that stood in the way of “progress” in no way. They did not need destroyed to advance the story and I guess I’m mystified at the jubilation shown by some when it happened.

The ruins of Ascalon still stand. Bulldozing them into oblivion was not needed, during the searing, or now, to supposedly make a “living world”. A living world can hold remembrance of the past as well as the new and in fact.. adds to it.

Sad that this is drowned out in the BURN IT ALL mindset of some of the player base and, it seems, some of the developers as well. I do not understand it.

Cities Fall. Yes. But Rome did NOT fall to the barbarian equivalent of Curly, Moe and Larry, and Troy did not fall to the era’s equivalent of Team Rocket. LA deserved an epic death, and instead got instakilled by plot convenience. Not a good way to go.

Ashen.2907:

My wife logged into her GW2 account to play the game for the first time in a few weeks today. Apparently her character was attacked and killed while she was in the process of logging in (logged out near the bank in LA), before she even had the option to act.

This annoyed her sufficiently to convince her to log back out. All of her characters are currently in LA. Is there a way to get them out of LA in order to log into them without this concern ?

Not that I know of. Originally they stated that chars logged out in LA would be logged back in outside of the city, but in reality they do log into LA and do die. Don’t know if they will be patching it either. Perhaps you could log in for her and move them if it is upsetting her. (and pay her armor repair bill)

There is a cinematic on log in, but she can replay that at an NPC at the refugee camps if you do move her out.

Rhyse.8179:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

How shallow it is. Just today, I hear comments about deliveries from LA. A Lionguard telling a couple Ladies all about LA and how he could take them there. A villager saying she wants to move to LA to “be safe” A heart NPC within sight of the south refugees telling me to watch for artifacts showing up in LA. It is all over, text, chat, dialog. All over, the world is by and large unconcerned/unaffected by this “world changing event”.

This is standard in all mmo’s, ever, that add content progressively. Not because it’s a good thing, but because it’s a necessary thing. You can’t remake the entire game world with every content patch.

I just tell myself it’s kind of like time travel- we are playing out a role at different points in the timeline. Not everything has to be contemporaneous.

Disagree. In most MMOs the dialog/text remains because the Quests/Tasks/Surrounding of those NPCs also remains. The 10 rats are still there. Bob the rat butcher is still there. No disconnection. Bob isn’t telling you he is shipping the rats to a town that doesn’t exist anymore. It is more localized. It is more problematic in GW2 because they built a gamewide NPC trading infrastructure dedicated to LA.. the Havens, Lionguards patrolling trade routes, LA as center of commerce. Have not seen that kind of system deeply entrenched in a game ever. In most games it is “I’m a Guard, guarding, um, this place”, here it was “I’m a guard, protecting trade to Lions Arch”.. and it is a recurring theme. In most games trade is an unseen “given” mostly, here it was an established system of routes and “Havens” with the sole purpose of providing the trade infrastructure feeling. And very well done, too well done to be left disconnected and no longer relevant.

When they built the game they took the time to make the connections. Text could have been “thank you for making the road safe, player” and that would have been fine. Instead it is “thank you for making the roads safer, Lions Arch needs these supplies”. It was a nice touch, tying the world together.

And fyi, when Sony remade Freeport and then Qeynos a couple years back, all of the flavor text alluding to the suburbs changed to reflect them being closed areas. Text and flavor dialog was changed to reflect the improvements/changes to the cities as well.

Nothing remains in Everquest2 of the old system of feeding citizens into the 2 main cities through the racial suburbs, no text, no flavor, no old quest dialog, and since those suburbs were removed as open player housing zones, that is how it should be. No “current tense” references to something that no longer exists.

That is how it should be done, for continuity, connections, immersion and Lore.

In my opinion.

Lady Althea, Gwen and Jenna, Countess Anise..the Iconic mesmers of GW never wore a mask.

I didn’t like that LA was destroyed. But, it was. Can’t be undone. My issue is the manner.

Who did it. Frankly, Scarlet isn’t worthy, her thousands of improbable minions and outlandish devices not worthy.

How it was done. Fait Accompli by video. Presented a stone cold fact and told to deal with the aftermath.

How shallow it is. Just today, I hear comments about deliveries from LA. A Lionguard telling a couple Ladies all about LA and how he could take them there. A villager saying she wants to move to LA to “be safe” A heart NPC within sight of the south refugees telling me to watch for artifacts showing up in LA. It is all over, text, chat, dialog. All over, the world is by and large unconcerned/unaffected by this “world changing event”. That is the single biggest complaint I have. The world consequences are barely addressed, the changes made only on a limited local level.

People have said “No game has ever done what ANET has in blowing up a major hub”. Well, perhaps the reason they are the first is the massive amount of rewrites that SHOULD be done to make an event like that believable world wide. They solved that by just not doing it. I, personally, think that oversight makes this “world changing” event a failure.. because it hasn’t changed the bulk of the world at all.

Once they have farmed their back items and quaggan tonics there is no “story” to be done that wasn’t blatantly obvious from just the trailer. Expect abandonment by the people who went just for the carrots, which I expect to be a sizable %.

the hard core farmer zergballs will remain, but expect to jump maps to find them.

My question is…. why was the destruction of the ruins deemed so necessary? What point does it make?

If is was done to make Scarlet somehow more villainous, it failed. She is still a joke, and I blame the people who scripted it. Fact is, my resentment at all the destruction, kessex, LA, is laid at the feet of the writing team. Scarlet is too shallow, too unbelievable, too much godmod to ever take seriously, and so my animosity that should be pointed at her, isn’t.

All I am seeing is what looks like a desperate effort to make her believable. Blow up and destroy enough, and we will take her seriously? No. There isn’t enough content in this game you can destroy, there aren’t enough likeable NPCs to murder, you just cant DO enough “bad” things to make Scarlet anything but ludicrous. You are destroying for nothing.

GG

Berethor.6142:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

And I would disagree vehemently. I am 57, female, and don’t call me “son”.

I’ve read “High Fantasy” most of my life. This story isn’t, not by a long shot. It is a poorly done episodic childrens story in a “High Fantasy” setting.

Wiki also lists examples of “High Fantasy” along with the simplistic definition. “The Lord of the Rings, A Song of Ice and Fire, Malazan Book of the Fallen, The Wheel of Time” Having read them all, I see nothing in the LS story remotely resembling good story or what I would consider “High Fantasy”, much less “At its finest”.

Epic. No, just no. I’m fully aware of the laundry list of barely palatable tripe that you trotted out, and Epic isn’t a term I would use for this, save in combination with “failure”.

Have a nice day.

Expecting the LS content to rival or be better than a list of what is considered by many to be the pinnacle of the Fantasy genre is more than a little naive. If you would like to overwhelmed by the writing, back story, and plot points, might I recommend reading a book?

I’m not the one stating this LS is “High Fantasy at its Finest”, am I? Guess you missed that, it is the topic title.

And I would disagree vehemently. I am 57, female, and don’t call me “son”.

I’ve read “High Fantasy” most of my life. This story isn’t, not by a long shot. It is a poorly done episodic childrens story in a “High Fantasy” setting.

Wiki also lists examples of “High Fantasy” along with the simplistic definition. “The Lord of the Rings, A Song of Ice and Fire, Malazan Book of the Fallen, The Wheel of Time” Having read them all, I see nothing in the LS story remotely resembling good story or what I would consider “High Fantasy”, much less “At its finest”.

Epic. No, just no. I’m fully aware of the laundry list of barely palatable tripe that you trotted out, and Epic isn’t a term I would use for this, save in combination with “failure”.

Have a nice day.

silvermember.8941:

The same reason why no company has ever done it, it is not easy or there isn’t an efficient way to do it. Finally, it would probably require too much scripting since AI isn’t at the point where it can do it.

The reality is this, I see gw 2 DE more as a stepping stone for future MMORPG to tackle. It is easy to criticize the inventor and praise the innovator. Just remember gw2 is not the last MMORPG that will be made, someone will come a long and outdo Anet vision for DE and we all win, unless you own NcSoft stock.

Your question isn’t a very good question since it depends on developers to answer and I don’t think any developer will answer since it serves no purpose.

It has been done. Even something as simple as the Luxon/Kurzick border in GW1 was dynamic. All of the player created factional bases/gcw in SWG was dynamic, as was the rise and fall of player cities. Control of territory in Eve is dynamic. Dynamic has been done. WvW here is dynamic. They haven’t successfully applied dynamics to what are, essentially, Kill 10 Rats repeatables.

I had a lot to say. I’ll condense it.

The game, indeed, was “well crafted” but their insistence on merely overlaying new over old without integration is not well crafted. Destroying and retconning their own lore is not well crafted. Destroying areas of the game in a futile attempt to make a laughable villain somehow believable is not “well crafted”.

Enlighten me about what part of temporary content is permanent? And High Fantasy? This story is more Mel Brooks except they weren’t trying to be campy or funny.. it is a bad parody of High Fantasy, worse since it was unintended.

This is worse than I predicted. Can’t even be bothered to insure that the Personal Story takes place in the proper timeframe THEY determined.

Had to laugh in Queensdale today as a villager, once again, talked about moving to LA for “safety”. Also laughed when I got my letter to visit the Consortium in LA. Really? It’s kind of on fire, yah?

Unforgivably sloppy. As expected.

And I see still, that people will rationalize anything. Enjoy your ugly backpieces.