Guild Wars 2

NeXeD.3042:

Oh i get it you think he’s joking calling the rest of EU trash…. lol

Since Helseth opinion seems to mean so much to you, I’d not recommend you to watch him analyze the NA pro league matches. It would break your heart comparing NA pro league to EU hot-join.

We EU-SoloQ players might just be peasant, but at least (in his humble opinion) there is a difference between Hot-Join level (and therefore the MMR entry level, Abjured played against the last couple of days) and the normal soloQ players.

trytonianYeti.4389:

Yeah they get faster queue times so they can GO AGAINST SOLOQERS WITH NO CHANCE OF WINNING VS THEM.

Maybe they just didn’t knew, they are playing with a new MMR. Maybe farming the other team is just normal for them because on NA there is no difference between playing on new MMR and on top MMR xD shots fired

Have you activated “Allow skill retargeting”? Deactivating it fixed the stomp bug for me.

Immediately after the blog post about the league system, (three month ago) we tried to draw ArenaNets attention to exactly this problem. Nothing happened.

Top ESL teams abused the creation of new guild teams. They fixed the bug, but no consequences for the cheaters. Instead, they’ll close this thread because of name calling.

Ara.4569:

Not a word about the insane power creep.

Most players fail to recognize that, so imagine a company that doesn’t even play its own game!

Future looks grim.

That’s because the topic is about the league system. Not about match making problems and neither about balancing problems.

Tzozef.9841:

Why is it do me and MY team, lose pips when we lose when I DC. I FEEL REALLY BAD FOR MY TEAM.

My computer CRASHED, in the beginning of the match then I was able to get back on before the match ended. Everyone lost a pip. AND I GOT DISHONORED. HOW THE HELL ANET?!!?

Really not fair. Respond to me please

Has been answered multiple times: This is a mechanism to prevent abuse.

Just think about what would happen if they did not loose anything for your dc: The match looks like you are going to loose? This time I’ll dc, next time it is your turn.

Pimsley.3681:

Main account been stuck in Emerald since Wednesday. Noob account to Sapphire in a day and a half. Many matches I got 2 pips and a couple matches I got 3 pips.

Yes, that’s how the system is working.

Your main account has a steady MMR and your are going to face opponents of about your own mmr. Your winrate will be about 50% and climbing up the league will take a lot of time.

Your new account as a very low MMR. The system predicts you to not win with that huge lead, maybe that you sometimes even should loose.

“Exceeding the expectation” of the MMR system is what let you climb up the ladder. (This principle is also the background of the system abuse via MMR tanking and the already fixed creating of new guild teams. Which btw got abused by some ESL teams, mainly in NA.)

Vague Memory.2817:

Teutos.8620:

Vague Memory.2817:

You are ignoring or not taking into account that previously player ranking was more about how many games you played, rather than it being based on skill level at all.

The Pre Dec 2014 ladder was not about games played. It was a purely MMR based ladder with the inclusion of decay. It got reset multiple times (more than two times).

Your statistic was on the ladder AFTER the mmr ladder which was a purely farm ladder.

On the pure MMR ladder (pre dec 2014) you were not even listed in the top 1.000.
If you want to check out the old mmr ladder, you can still find the data on http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/history

Why are you checking some ancient non-official board. How about checking the official GW2 one that is still up:

https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/pvp?page=2

You can clearly see the trend that people at the top have played many more games compared to people to who are lower ranked (go through pages 1-4). The ancient scoring was silly if you look at that site you posted someone had rank 4 from playing 13 games. That isn’t skill. You could rank up high by playing a small amount of games. You are trying to muddy the water (very poorly I might add) of what I was saying which is the MMR doesn’t measure skill, whether you are talking about the old or new MMR. But the old system was particularly bad which is why they changed it.

I really don’t understand your problem. Maybe you just can’t read or you don’t want to understand the information I provided in the discussion, because it does not suit your point.

I’ll rephrase it for you again:
GW2 had multiple ladder system in the past.
The ladder AFTER Dec 2014 is the ladder you can see under https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/pvp?page=2 It was a purely farm based ladder yes.

BEFORE Dec 2014 we had a purely MMR based ladder. The ladder looked like this: http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/history This purely MMR based ladder got reset BEFORE Dec 2014 multiple times. The players who mad it in this PRE Dec MMR based ladder into the top 100 before every reset, also bad it back there after every reset.

=> CONCLUSION: Your initial statement, that we can’t determine skill in a five player game is proven wrong. Your own suggestion to “just reset the mmr” happened multiples times in the past and it showed that the same players who got a high mmr also got a high mmr after every reset.

What’s so hard to understand here?

Vague Memory.2817:

You are ignoring or not taking into account that previously player ranking was more about how many games you played, rather than it being based on skill level at all.

The Pre Dec 2014 ladder was not about games played. It was a purely MMR based ladder with the inclusion of decay. It got reset multiple times (more than two times).

Your statistic was on the ladder AFTER the mmr ladder which was a purely farm ladder.

On the pure MMR ladder (pre dec 2014) you were not even listed in the top 1.000.
If you want to check out the old mmr ladder, you can still find the data on http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/history

Vague Memory.2817:

All of this avoids the inescapable truth: Matchmaking does not and cannot work.

You cannot determine an individual’s skill level in a random team of 5, in addition to an individual’s skill being variable dependent on that individual. A simple test will verify this. Reset everyone’s MMR to new for the league season.

Maybe you are new to gw2, but once upon a time, we had a purely mmr based ladder. (It had problems with win streaks of new players and non permanent decay, but let’s leave that appart.) Back in the day the mmr got reset on multiple occasions, but guess what… the top 100 players got back to being the top 100 players within days/weeks.

So yeah, it seems the system can detect individual skill.

Hi,

First of all, I would like to thank you for taking your time in yesterday’s twitch stream, to not only explain every detail of the league system, but to also acknowledge the current problems.

I’d love to talk more about the interaction between the match making system and the league system.

Both systems fulfill important roles in providing the best pvp experience.

1. The match making system:
GW2 used a glicko2-based elo system to provide us with the single best match-experience possible. The goal is to let you fight with teammates against opponents of about your own skill. If I look over my game history, most of the time you are already doing a great job here.

On the personal, subjective side of the match making, there are still some matches, where you don’t even see the slightest chance of winning. While these matches might be rare, they still exist. (Maybe those are the games, where the odds are highly against you.)

The biggest problem I see here is, that you are sacrificing the match making quality due to the division cut off (more to that later).

2. The league system:
From my POV the league system fulfills two goal: long term motivation to play & at the end of the season the best players should be on the top.

Personally I think you did a great job to improve the motivation to play. Every evening I’m either playing to advance to the next tier to finish one of those achievements. Long term I really want to get that backpack so bad and get a cute little Mini Lavish Llama. Ofc it will take a lot of time to get those, I might not even be able to get enough Llamas for the Lavish Llama, but that’s perfectly fine.

The problem is that the other goal is not fulfilled. Once the season has ended, you will not be able to tell if the player in the Diamond Division has a higher MMR than a player in the Sapphire Division.

The first ladder we had in gw2 was purely based on MMR. It fluctuated a lot and new players with a lucky 10 games win streak could end up on the top.

The second ladder used basically the same point system we have now. You play, you get points. You play a lot more games, you get a lot more points. At the end of the day the players who played the most games (or abused the system as good as possible) ended up on top of the ladder. The current league system is more prone to be abused since it has safe spots compared to the purely point based ladder.

3. The interaction between those two systems:
During my personal playing experience with other games, I have encounter two existing systems (there might be more tho).

Heartstone
The match making in Heartstone is not elo based. It is matching you with players with about your tier. It is basically saying if you have beaten enough players in the bronze tier than you are worthy for the silver tier. At the end of the season they are resetting the whole league and putting you back at the start (with a little bonus).
This is basically a reset of the mmr and means that at the start of the season good players will fight mediocre players. This impacts the quality of each game and therefore I would not recommend that system but build on your existing strength: the glicko2 based mmr system.

League of Legends
League of legends is using a elo based system to match players together. The league system basically was put on top of it. They took the whole mmr-range and divided it up into divisions and tiers. “Top 10% of the mmr-spectrum should be Diamond.” Now if you are currently in the league system not Diamond, but you are still one of the top 10% players and therefore you should be diamond, the amount of points you gain per win is significantly increased. The same is true in the other direction. If you are currently in Diamond, but your ‘skill’ has suffered, you are playing like a Silver-Player, then your MMR adjusted and you are losing far more points per loss.

Personally I think this is the best system I have encountered yet.
It takes some time to get up in the league system, because you still have to farm points. At the end of the season the best players are on top of the league. It has the perfect motivation to improve your skill, because otherwise you can’t climb up any further.

4. Conclusion:

• The match making should be purely based on the match making rating. The division cut off only negatively impacts the individual match quality.
• The amount of pips you gain should be affected by your current league position and your mmr. At the end of the season the top players should be on top and not the players who played more games.

Thank you for taking this post into consideration.

Best wishes!
Teutos

Kicker.8203:

Is there still personal class-based MMR?

It exists, but I don’t know how much of it is currently part of the match making process. (I’d guess with 12.5% and the rest account based).

Would be interesting to know which profession MMR would get adjusted after you switched the profession in the preparation-phase. Probably the one from the profession you finished the match with (Abuse potential? Maybe adjusting the MMR from every profession involved?).

You are allowed to switch the profession as long as your relog process happening either during the ready-up phase or does not take longer than 2 minutes during a match.

It does not effect your pips.

Evan Lesh.3295:

This isn’t your MMR, but your ladder position. We could let matchmaking expand the ladder position cutoff, but then we’d have a lot of players complaining that they keep getting matched with people outside their division. We’d have to let this happen pretty slowly still.

How long would you be willing to wait before going significantly outside your division for matchmaking?

Please just copy the league system from league of legends.

Your system is just broken.

Match making should only take into account your mmr, never the division.
AFTER a match, the amount of pips you gain (or loose) should be determined by your mmr in relation to your current league position.

deda.8302:

“SHOULD work”

I rest my case .

Yeah, reduce the system that works in 99% of the cases to the few bugs that happened and got fixed. GJ!

You are the little special snowflake that should always win but the poor rating system is ALWAYS placing you with kitten players.

Here have a hug!

deda.8302:

I linked post where dev cofirmed this ,called it a bug, later on and supposedly fixed it(reasonable doubt it wasnt fixed after ppl keep reporting same thing happening)
yet you ignore it…

You are still not understanding how the system SHOULD work, where BUGS are happening AND how it deal with outliners.
I tried to explain it to you, but you still seem you want to play the blame-game and not trying to understand the system. Please google how a match making system is working. Maybe if you don’t believe me, you might believe the thousands of possible sources you will find after googling.

The thread you posted was regarding a bug. The system still found 10 players of almost the equal skill, but the distribution of those 10 players was faulted.

Players ranked by MMR: 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
Team1: 10, 4, 3, 2, 1
Team2: 9, 8, 7, 6, 5

BUT it should be fixed by now:

The way it is intended to work is the next biggest roster gets put onto the smallest team so far, or the next highest MMR roster gets put onto the team with the lowest total MMR.

= the average rating of each team should be as close as possible.

deda.8302:

Did you check the link i posted,it doesnt seam so,pls read it…

Yes, I read the link. How the MMR system is working is nothing new. WoW, lol, dota, cs, titanfall, you name it, they are all using a MMR system to find suitable teammates or opponents for you. Some of those systems are showing you your rating, but most are hiding it behind a league system.

There are multiple sources where you can check out how the mmr works in their system. Heck, if you don’t want to read, there are multiple videos explaining how it is working.

If you are interested in more math, check out glicko2, the two player chess rating system on which gw2 is based on.

If i follow your logic system is creating fair game but only for an mid tier

The job of the match making system is only to find suitable opponents for you. Building on that, the reward system (in our case our new league system) SHOULD take into account what happens if there is a huge rating difference between those two teams. Let’s talk about that a bit later.

players of average rating of every team which is 1506(lets take your example)

As long as the margin between the ratings is small enough, it does not make a difference for the 1506 player if he is above the average or below. He just needs to perform at his own rating. The player with the 1510 rating has to perform a little bit better than he has to, and the 1501 player has to perform a little bit weaker.

In an objective POV, this single match is a perfectly fair match. Those are the matches you want to happen in your system.

It is also fair for every player, because of the rating changing AFTER the game happend.
Let’s say the first team won vs the team with the average rating of 1506.
Player A with the 1510 rating gets +2 rating,
Player D with the 1508 rating gets +3 rating.
Player F with the 1501 rating gets +8 rating.

If they would have lost vs a team with the average rating of 1506:
Player A with the 1510 rating gets -8 rating,
Player D with the 1508 rating gets -6 rating.
Player F with the 1501 rating gets -1 rating.

The rating is constantly adjusting. In a single match, it might look bad for player A who does not have a lot to win, but much to loose, but that’s just for one match. In the next match he might be the one with the chance to gain more than he looses.

The margins of system are very large and not as small as possible

I reported a few matches to Justing ODell back in January.

Date RatingType TeamParty EnemyParty Prediction Result TeamScore EnemyScore Rating Diff Rank Diff
2015-01-10 21:00:50.000 Unranked 122 1211 46.8800 Victory 502 380 -24.0 5.0
2015-01-10 21:14:46.000 Unranked 1121 5 25.7800 Defeat 196 500 -94.0 -1.0
2015-01-10 21:30:21.000 Unranked 1121 1121 45.1600 Victory 501 395 -44.0 14.0

The second match with the “94” rating difference was the match I felt that there was something wrong.

And here is another one I reported. It has a huge rating difference (1003). After reporting that match, Justin found a “pretty critical flaw in the matchmaking logic” which got instantly hotfixed the next day.

2015-01-12 20:08:13.000 Ranked 1121 11111 87.0300 Victory 501 95 1003.0 18.0

=> the system is trying to reduce the rating difference as much as possible.

Klangy.8293:

I think it’s The same, it’s just different when u look at leaderboard. But unranked and ranked mmr are The same.

They are not. It has been confirmed multiple times, last time 16 hrs ago.

Each arena has its own MMR. They do not affect each other. Everything is split by arena, even profession MMR.

Source: https://np.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3v91ec/im_rocketing_up_the_pvp_pip_system_already_tier_3/cxlwqpb?context=1000

XGhoul.7426:

The main problem is that mmr was not reset at league start

No, the main problem is, that the amount of pips you gain and loose is not effected by your mmr.

I mean if you can go into unranked RIGHT NOW to intentionally lose games and it still affects your ranked mmr means the system is broken. BADLY.

Unranked and ranked MMR are two completely different things.
Your math grade does not influence your english grade.

deda.8302:

Wrong, i can not find a where this is correctly explained even before HOt release and confirmed by dev(seams it got deleted),but please do the research before correcting and missinforming players

Unfortunately, you did not understand how the system is working.

You just remembered a statement without understanding what it means.

It goes something like if players rank 1 to 10 are queing at same time system

First off, the term “rank” could easily be misunderstood.
The system tries to place ten players with a skill as equally as possible into the same game. But since not every has the 100% same rating (e.g. on has 1550, the next 1551, the next 1560, the next 1552) the have to spread those players as equally as possible over the two teams.

wil always pair lowest ranked with highest ranked playe to equall wining chaces of the team
something like
10 -8-6-5-1
vs
8-8-7-6-2

This was confirmed by dev, later it was called bug, but it still works this way.

That’s the way they are distributing those 10 almost equally skilled players through the two teams.

Back to my statement:
If everyone has the correct mmr, the win chance is 50%. Both teams are equally strong, both teams might win.

BUT your own goal is, that each game you prove, that the system underestimated you. That the teams are not equally skilled and that therefore your win chance is >50%.

Back to your example:
The ten players with the most equal mmr currently queueing are:
Player A: 1510
Player B: 1508
Player C: 1507
Player D : 1508
Player E: 1506
Player F: 1501
Player G: 1505
Player H: 1505
Player I: 1502
Player J: 1508

Not the system is ranking each player:
#1: Player F: 1501

1. Player I: 1502
2. Player G: 1505
3. Player H: 1505
4. Player E: 1506
5. Player C: 1507
6. Player B: 1508
7. Player D : 1508
8. Player J: 1508
9. Player A: 1510

Now the system is distributing those player into the two teams, as equally as possible. That could look like the example you have posted.

10 -8-6-5-1 vs 8-8-7-5-2

In the end every teams has an average mmr of 1506. Both teams are as equal as possible (in the real world one team might end up with an advantage, but the system tries to make it as small as possible).

Again, back to my statement:
E.g. you are player D with a 1508 rating.
The system though (based on your past performance) your rating is 1508.
If the system has correctly calculated your ranking and that of every other player participating in every match you are playing AND everyone is always playing at their best, you will as an effect end up with a 50% win rate.

But that is only true for the games you play while everyone is performing at their rating.

For every single game you prove, that your rating need to be adjusted, your win rate will not be 50%.

E.g. Some people are struggling adjusting to HoT. They will loose more games till the mmr system had adjusted their rating enough, till you find suitable players again. (From that point on, you will land again at a 50% win rate).

infantrydiv.1620:

Historically there is no indication that Arenanet has ever done anything whatsoever to punish afkers, other than dishonor.

There are players with hundreds of reports for afking and raging still on the loose, and some of them are extremely well known.

^- This. I’ll also report them, but I don’t have any hopes what so ever.

WuGzaGenius.5684:

Teutos.8620:

Have you guys every played one of the other title out there e.g. lol/dota/smite/sc2/hearthstone who are also using a league system?

Yes, the risk exists, that Anet will screw up the system, but I guess they will just copy the league-system of one of the more popular games, and they are solving the problem. How: depending on your mmr, you are gaining and loosing a different amount of pips.

So e.g. even after reaching a certain division, if you try to dump your mmr into the ground, you will first have to improve your mmr, you be able to advance any further.
E.g. after dumping your mmr into the ground, you will only gain 1 pips per win, but you will loose 5 pips per win until your mmr is back at the level where it should be for the division.

That is far from how it works. Try again.

Agree. The thread is three month old and back then we already talked about how the league system SHOULD work.

Unfortunately ArenaNet decided they are a special snowflake who needs to reinvent the wheel. We all know how it ended. They failed miserably.

Browrain.7346:

The better you are, the more likely you are to win.

Not if the mmr system works how it should. If you are better, than you are also facing better opponents and therefore you are winning as much games as a bad player facing bad opponents.

Loosing streaks are happening because of the match making system. It has nothing to do with the broken league system.

Browrain.7346:

Didn’t mention skill level at all, which obviously will factor in.

No, skill level is not factored into the league system. Which is THE big problem of the league system.

It does not matter if you win against a low mmr player or a high mmr player. The reward is still only a pip.

briggah.7910:

I have a match we won that just says “Bye”

Bye means:

You won and the other team had a disconnect.

You still got a pip for that.
This is not the desertion bug the people are talking in this thread.

Currently it seems the league is only for players who are abusing the system.

a) push your mmr to the ground on the start of each division or
b) play to times, where you are not facing suitable oppoents
-> have a high win rate and therefore gain a lot of pips -> legendary incoming!

Play “normal” (50% win rate) on a high mmr level (while facing other high mmr opponents) -> stay on ruby.

gin.7158:

Teutos.8620:

Snip

You’re talking like you worked for anet.

Reading must be sooo hard.

Tl.dr.: the league system is broken. Why? See my post above (or in other threads).

Guys, it seems a lot of you still have fundamental problems to understand how the match making and based on that, the league system is currently working.

Tobias.8632:

My overall winrate is around 60%

Let’s get back to some basics. For better understanding, let’s borrow some mmr-numbers from wow since our mmr-numbers are hidden.

After each individual match you play, the system will adjust your mmr-number. Let’s say you are an ok-ish player so the system will rank you with the mmr-number “1500”. A good player will have 2000 and a top esl player 2300.

In each individual match the system will let you 1500-player fight with other 1500-players and against other 1500-players. If the system works correct and everyone of the player has really the skill of 1500, your win chance is 50%.

You goal is to improve yourself. “I am not a 1500 player, I am a 1550 player!” If that is correct, you will win the match, and the system will further rank you at 1550. Everytime you are proving that the system ranked you too low, you are increasing your win rate.

NOW you are facing 1550 opponents. If that is true, you will 50% of every match you play at the 1550 level.

This is where the “50%-win-rate-effect” comes from. The system is trying to find suitable opponents for you. It takes some time till the system find the right spot for you, or maybe you are improving every time (while your opponents do not) that you have a win rate over 50% for that time till the system manages to find suitable matches for you.

Now to your current situation: Pre Hot you managed to play at skill level 1750, therefore the system placed you against 1750 opponents. Seems your skill level is far lower OR the level of the opponents is far higher, than the system has placed them. => your win rate is not 50% till it finds suitable opponents for you. Then you will go back to about 50%.

BTT: As long as the amount of pips you gain, is not effected by your mmr, the system is broken.
You are fighting against opponents of about your own mmr. Your current position in the league system is completely irrelevant. You will always fight for a pip.
A high mmr player will face high mmr opponents, he still fights for the same pip as an low mmr player facing a low mmr opponent.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

but for divisions where you can loose pips/tiers (any division above amber for pips) it shows where you stand in ranked play against other premades.

No. That is your subjective problem because of your high MMR. It does not have anything to do with the league system.

You will always face players with about your own MMR, it does not matter in which division they are playing.

The basic problem is, that you are facing opponents based on your MMR Without an effecting your pips..

• That means, that it does not matter if you are currently playing for an amber pip or a diamond pip. Opponents are still based on your mmr.
• It does not matter if a high mmr ruby player is fighting vs other high mmr players OR a low mmr ruby player is fighting vs another low mmr player → they are BOTH fighting for a ruby pip.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

if they manage to get 5 wins in a row, […] then farm those 30 wins in a row

You don’t need wins in a row. You just need to win a little bit more wins than you looses.
If you won 11 games and lost 10 games, you will still end up with +1 pip. It does not matter in which order you had those games. You can play as many games as you want, as long as you win just a bit more games than you loose.

In Amber your win rate does not matter and in Emerald and Sapphire you can climb up the ladder with lucky streaks.
In Ruby you still only need a win rate over 50% to climb up the ladder.
Problem: How do you achieve a win rate over 50%? You are improving and showing the MMR system, that the rating they attributed to you was too low. (Keep in mind, that the MMR-system will find new challenges for you everytime you improve.)

SamTheGuardian.2938:

when in reality the division icon represents your effectiveness on a premade team

Currently, the league icon only shows how much you played.

As long as the pips gained is not effected by your mmr, it currently does not matter, if you won your matches facing high mmr premades or just killed some low mmr solo-queueers .

It is currently the same if a top tier ESL player wins 50% of his matches and slowly gains pips or a noname at the bottom of the mmr ladder.

(It also includes the option of abuse:

• Once you reach a new division, that you can’t loose: Just loose as many games as possible to put your MMR to the ground -> then farm lower-mmr players for a win streak and easy pips.
• Play with a premade at a low-population time, where no players with your mmr are online -> farm lower mmr players for easy pips. )

I would love to get some clarification for this too.

Currently the league system looks broken.

From my POV it looks like, that everyone with a 50% win rate will end up on the top. No matter if he plays with at a low or a high mmr.

There SHOULD be a difference in Pips gained and lost depending on your current MMR and current league position (= how league system works in league of legends).

fumcheg.1936:

Teutos.8620:

The patch notes was incorrect. The current state is what the devs had in mind.

Please provide us with link which confirms that statement.

Please provide us a link which confirms your accusation.

The FACT is, that the plan to adjust the healing was from an old balance preview, which NEVER got realized that way, BUT got improved multiple times. Followed by a big revision with HoT. If they would have wanted to implement that, they would have by now OR it would have been mentioned as planned / bugged.

The patch notes was incorrect. The current state is what the devs had in mind.

Start providing valuable feedback, how they should improve the thief and stomp bringing that old stuff to the table.

chrisnx.1674:

all blamed the DH for being OP, and now no one gonna takes it.

DH get’s countered from 1 profession: Tempest with Magnetic Aura. Everywhere, where you don’t have a Tempest (basically everywhere where you don’t have full five man premade AND everywhere, where your Tempest rotates to counter the DH) the DH is OP.

Funny that rev is soo overpowered, but no one believed me, here you have the evidence.

And still, Chaotic Contingency (playing with 2 Revs) lost vs Car Crash (playing with 0 Revs). So, Revenant is not all and definitely not a free win.

Gele.2048:

i dc for 10 seconds

You have two minutes aka “grace periode” to relog before you get dishonored. So no, you didn’t dc for only 10 seconds.

If I remember correctly, Helseth said on his stream, that the Revenant is a counter to the Tempest.

Which makes sense, since their Revenant is playing with carrion, so he should get the Tempest without a problem below 90% HP. After that the Tempest will have problems with the condis from the Revenant, since he does not have a lot of cleanses (Rune of the Soldier and staff water #5).

Cayenne.5341:

It is like their slow ability

The slow desyncs the animation with the actual stomp.
Just take your time, trust in the stomp and wait a bit after the animation is over.

Morwath.9817:

Alpha version of site : http://competitivegw2.blogspot.com/

Great start.

Two suggestions to improve the site:

• Can you please disable the auto-play from the embedded videos? (No idea, if that is technically possible.)

• When clicking on each individual profession (under builds) it is currently opening a new tab.

Can we please get back to topic and talk about Salamander’s loosing streak? If you now have access to the data, can you please take a look at it?

How did they look from an MMR-POV? Was he just in a possible fluctuation or was there a bug involved?

Stonybatter.6752:

its just I need to know what weapons a Mesmer should use to kill him without attracting other adds or mobs

I can’t remember which weapon I used, probably just greatsword. Greatsword damage can’t be reflected, but you might get some damage back due to retaliation (= fixed amount, no reflect).

If you have problems with the story missions I would check the list below:

• Improve your own playstyle. What is currently happening and why are you dying? Are you getting debuffs? Does the mob has buffs? What does the text under the mobs name say.
• Assign key binds (including doge) and use them
• Check your gear and traits
• The saddest and probably the most likely: There is a new bug introduced with the latest update. e.g. after changing condition to be able to stack, there were some mobs who could unintentionally kill you pretty fast using stacking condition.
• If you can’t do it alone, ask in the map chat or lfg tool for help. (If you are online tomorrow I should have time to help you too, just whisper me, might take some time for me to answer, since I am most likely just standing around afk).

Ragnarox.9601:

You are not doing 6k dmg on RF, Houston we have a problem. Maybe it’s not DH maybe its your build.

I just jumped into HotM to check the numbers on a Heavy Golem using Marauder Amulet. (Without any boon, just with the vulnerability RF provides for itself) Rapid Fire maxed at 6.3k with full 10 crits. But since it is really rare, that all 10 attacks are critting and since it takes a lot of time for every arrow to hit, it leaves a lot more of counterplay than true shot.

Comparing numbers to a ranger/druid without a proper dps meter is not useful anyway, since you would have to include the pet damage.

First of: It is not a profession mission.

Read through: wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Estate_of_Decay you might find something helpful there.

Evan Lesh.3295:

There were a few reasons for keeping players in HotM when queued:snip

We totally understand, that queueing outside of HotM might impact the personal experience negatively (you get interrupting while playing; you might not be able to accept the invite and therefore suffer the penalty).

BUT those reasons are all on the personal level and therefore we we should personally be able to choose if we want to take the risk or not.

How about a NPC in the mists – whose dialog you first have to get through – who can enable the ability to queue outside of the mists?
He could inform you about the risk you take and how builds in PvP are workign (besides, completely new players will not find him anyway).

Not not sure if it’s on my side, but your post is really hard to read.
If feels you have some basic misunderstandings how interrupting currently effects your cooldown.

Rodzynald.5897:

What is running on my mind is the ability to interrupt our own skills once we begin to cast it with nothing more than just our escape button BUT with lower cooldown to it.

You can bind “stow weapon” to any key you want to interrupt (or stop) your own skill.

With the ability to stop our skills being cast by ourselves (dodging while using renewed focus included) would give us more counter possibilities in a fight.

If a skill gets interrupted (it does not matter if it got interrupted from yourself or from the opponent) you will end up with a much shorter cooldown (in most cases).
E.g. Mirror Blade has a normal cooldown of 8 seconds, if I interrupt the skill during the cast, it only has a 4 seconds cooldown. If an opponents interrupts the skill, it has a 5 seconds cooldown.

The are some exceptions to this rule tho.
Exception #1: The most common one is, that skills, which grant you an immediate benefit will go on full cooldown when they are getting interrupted.
E.g. “renewed focus”: If you interrupt renewed focus, it goes on full cooldown, since you already had the immediate benefit of being immune.

Exception #2: Mesmer with the trait ‘Power Block’ or Thiefs using ‘Distracting Daggers’ will increase your cooldown after interrupting your ability by more than those 5 seconds.

Exception #3: Some skills are just bugged. Prior HoT interrupting ‘Point Blank Shot’ would have put it on full cooldown (got fixed with HoT tho, not sure if currently some skills are suffering from this).

The thing is, when we get for example blinded, we would just stop the casting animation of certain spells and make them go on a cooldown which is much shorter.

Which is exactly, what you already can and should do. If you get blinded using a high cooldown weapon skill, just stow weapon, press auto attack to get rid of the blind, then (after 4 seconds) cast the long cooldown weapon skill again. This is really important for strong weapon effects like ‘Phantasmal Berserker’ or ‘Pin Down’.

My personal guess: Your armor was completely broken and you ran around with 0 armor.

(The only two other options are a) bug or b) you are lying.)

And again almost every counter-argument that DH is fine resolves around the issue that the DH is bad.

sephiroth.4217:

Just yesterday I watched 2 DH on the enemy team try and hold mid point, 1 pet triggered all their traps so they both turned tail and ran off

And who forced them to place all their traps preemptively on one spot? The DH has enough gap closer, that he can place the trap right under your feet.

Slaymeding.9584:

Use an axe/shield with defense traits.
Wait for them to True Shot you,reflect it as it has a considerable cast time

Spear of Justice+ Daze from the Traps will interrupt every block attempt and render it utter useless.
Here an ingame example: You trigger a trap get dazed, the DH gets stealthed. You dodge, to avoid the trap damage. Now the DH is still stealthed, are you already starting to block preemptively? Maybe the DH knows, that you are wearing a shield and just waits to land his Spear of Justice+Pull combination to pull you trough his Sword-Wall.

Spartacus.3192:

Test of Faith does some damage on trigger but Anet put a delay on when the ring of swords will damage you so you can dodge out of the ring and not take additional damage.

I would not call 4k “some damage”.
Same problem is with the trait Hunter’s Determination and Fragments of Faith. 4k damage after CC’ing the DH. In a 1v1, you can counterplay that trait (e.g. CCing from range), in a teamfight not so much.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

I have literally seen people run headlong into traps they watched me place, that’s the source of most of the complaints right there.

They might be the source of most complains, but I am not talking about such situations. I am talking about skilled DH (not just placing the traps in no-mans-land and waiting for someone to accidentally triggering them) and skilled player trying to counterplay the DH but still gets eaten alive.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

First off your over stating the damage numbers or your running into a Dh who has had a teammate stack a good 20 stacks of might on them.

I have three screenshots of those numbers. The two of them I personally dealt were in off-point fights with the non-max-dps build Fraelina used in the go4finals. I am pretty sure I did not had 20 stacks of might and the opponent didn’t had 25 stacks of vulnerability.

Even tho, the 9k were pretty rare, 6k was standard.

Also blocks may not stop traps but they will stop everything else.

With Spear of Truth pull (btw: even landing the spear is unblockable) and the daze of the traps you are actually interrupting the block. Therefore as a dragonhunter you are basically full-on anti-block.

The DH has one trait on a 36-45 second cool down that will auto break stuns & do minor damage/blocks. However after that they are generally SOL if focused.

The common DH-build has three stun breaker, one of them grants them 4 seconds of stability.

Have you taken a look at Hunter’s Determination? It is by far the best anti-cc trait out there. 36 seconds CD, Aegis, Stability, Daze, Stealth, Superspeed (in the common DH-build), 4k damage to anyone next to you, more aegis to pick up. (Mesmer have 1 second CC on 60 seconds CD, Necro 2 seconds of fear on a 60 seconds cd and so on).

6: While a bunker DH can remove conditions quite well those specced for damage are vulnerable to condition bombs after they clear the first one.

Contemplation of Purity + Absolute Resolution + Smiter’s Boon, or just the biggest factor: avoiding them due to stealth, blocking them due to Shield of Courage or just counter bursting + CCing.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Only 1 trap is instant and they all put out a daze before any damage occurs.

A good player with decent ping can turn enemy Dh traps into wasted utility slots via dodges, pets, clones or invulnerability skills.

This guy again -.-

His answer to everything is dodge -.-
True Shot damage is fine, because you can just dodge the 9k.
Traps are fine, because you can dodge the 4-5k.
So, you just had to double dodge, how do you prevent Dragon’s Maw, Spear of Truth pulling you back into the first placed trap, the next True Shot, the 4k dmg auto-proc after you CC’d the guard? …. I need to dodge JUST dodge them too right? xD

Maybe if you Dragon Hunter would not just spam your traps into the first two dodges, you could actually imagine how strong the DH is.

BTW: If you are fighting a ranger or mesmer and you don’t want their pets to trigger your traps, how about don’t place those traps at your feed and waiting for the pet to engage first? (Not to mention, that just to kill the ranger pet is a huge deal too; you can just stand directly on the test of faith barrier to easily get rid of the whole ranger profession mechanic.)

bbp.5762:

Lol this is the same post at the DH post. What are you trying to accomplish here?

Smoke screen from all those guardians who are finally able to kill other players. They fear that DH will get nerfed asap and now want to create some diversion.