2. Buying your way through content takes any fun out of actually playing it.
You mean like how an easy mode takes any fun out of actually playing the current state of raids ?
Sure i agree. So i guess we agree no easy mode needed as it removes the fun factor of raiding and makes it a brain-dead affair.
Ad Infinitum, The Ascension …. and various other unique rewards beg to differ.
There is 2 main differences.
1) There is different legendary back items from different sources. The specific skin are unique to a specific game mode, which is fine, but if you don’t PvP, you can still get an Legendary Back item from Fractal and we know that more will come over time to add more diversity. Ideally, all game mode will have their own Legendary Back Item.
Legendary don’t have that and won’t have that for a long long long time. If you don’t do raids, either because you don’t have the skill, you don’t have the organization, you don’t the time or you just don’t like them, well you just can’t have a legendary armor, even if you are an hardcore PvPers, or able to farm thousands of gold.
2) Legendary weapons need times, but there is not a hard skill cap on it. A casual can get one of them even if it take them 1 year of play to accumulate all the materials. The Ascension is pretty much in the same situation. Anyone can do it with enough time. Almost the same thing for Ad Infinitum. Anybody can do most of it, it’s just the last collection that need you to reach diamond at least once. Which is not that hard if you focus on that in 1 particular season. It’s a little bit more limiting than the other legendary in term of skill, but not by much.
Legendary armor on the other hand is limiting. We can’t deny that a good portion of the community just can’t get pass VG or Gorseval. They tried, and failed. This doesn’t happen with the other legendary. Which is fine if you ask me. In my ideal game, all legendary would be like that. But that’s not how gw2 worked up to this point, so why change that all of the sudden?
Much like the other unique skins in other modes, just because you cannot get it “now” does not mean you wont be able to get it at all. Which is the false analogy being used to try and justify these modes by people who just want the skin without really going in and raiding.
You don’t put training wheels on a racing motorcycle.
But not all bikes are racing ones. And even on a racing motorcycle you can take it easy, you don’t need to participate in races.
But you do have to race to get the checkered flag.
I like your ideas Thaddeus, about having to beat normal raid once to unlock specific raid rewards as mini or skins. I still think that the legendary armor should stay behind normal raid (it’s legendary after all…).
And your propositions about easy raid mechanisms seem realistic, but since you’re talking about keeping wipe mechanisms, some people won’t agree with you because, you know, it’s too stressfull to wipe…Legendary armor cannot be locked exclusively behind raid at all, because it contradicts to whole GW2 design since very beginning. There must be another source of it, or it must be tradable as very bare minimum. Otherwise this game should be named WoW.
Ad Infinitum, The Ascension …. and various other unique rewards beg to differ.
I agree stop the slubling discrimination
I see a lot of raiders giving in to the idea of easy mode raids, but I still think it’s a terrible idea.
I’ve seen two main reasons for easy mode raids. 1) They want to complete the content. 2) They want the unique rewards, usually legendary armor.
Oh i’m aware its a terrible idea. Which was why i went through the farce okittennowledging a hypothetical existence of one.
Sadly it was proven pretty easily that what the players want is not to complete the content, it’s the rewards. I have a huge problem with people wanting rewards for no effort in the game, especially considering you’re already awarded for failing. Seriously, stop being lazy, go learn the fights, and beat them.
You’ll never ever appease this crowd of people because at the end of the day they’ll feel slighted that easy mode gives less, or even that they had to have an easy mode. Heck if that easy mode isn’t easy enough they’ll come back and complain more. Sad really.
You get Easy Mode…..
You get 5% of the gold value while not under the mists buff.
You don’t get shards, the unique items, legendary armor collection pieces, nor achievement progressSatisfied ?
No, why do you ask? Shouldn’t you know the answer to that already? I mean, would you run the raid under those circumstances?
Seeing as the mode isn’t aimed at me. No, i probably wouldn’t.
However for those people who want to (and im going to use this word really liberally) try to raid for the first time. It’s perfectly fine.
Also, I asked to prove a point.
I compromised i went from junk to some silver, and gave into the idea of an easy mode even existing. Should one exist its rewards should be barebones.
Where’s the fair play man ?
Classic case of greed going on here.
Here, help me help you what exactly do you have a problem with again given the solution above ?
We’ve covered this to death….What you think is fair is a joke.
No, what you think of as fair is a joke, what I think of as fair is fair. Now if I were going to suggest that easy mode reward identical amounts of rewards as hard mode, that would be a joke. Ha ha.
You literally cannot offer your own “compromise” without laughing to yourself over it, that might be a clue that it is a joke.
Okay then lets try this…..
You get Easy Mode…..
You get 5% of the gold value while not under the mists buff.
You don’t get shards, the unique items, legendary armor collection pieces, nor achievement progress
Satisfied ?
but again, it’s NOT a waste of time. You can argue all you like but no matter how long it may take it wouldn’t be a waste. Even at the absolute maximum, it would inevitably take less time than producing actual new content from scratch, and the result (with FAIR rewards), would be repeatable content that many MORE players could enjoy than the current raids. More players having fun for relatively low amount of work = impossible to be a waste of time.
It’s just something you don’t want to happen.
We’ve covered this to death….What you think is fair is a joke.
Please come back when you have something that’s even remotely close to this arbitrary term you call “Fair”.
You know what i think is “Fair”….
5s and a “We Raided” Spoon worth 10c.
It will keep you coming back right ?
This is untrue. An easy mode which is, aside from tuning, mirrored from hard mode, and provides the same rewards, does detract from the hard modes.
Firstly, there’s the obvious point that while an easy mode may be a negligible amount of effort from an outsider’s point of view (I’m skeptical that it is, and I’m inclined to take any estimates from ANet at face value), it still does move developers away from other content and to raids. Raiders don’t exclusively enjoy raids; they’re not automatons who only enjoy that form of content. If they were raiders and exclusively raiders, then GW2 is, plainly, not the game for them.
Secondly, it does reduce the pool of players willing to enter hard mode. It does create fractures between community groups as ‘easy’ and ‘hard’ modes solidify. I’ve said before that a big issue with the reward structure of dual moding is that once this content becomes ‘old’, the difficulty divide means that one mode gets ignored when this wouldn’t happen with a single mode. It doesn’t actually solve any issue, any better than other solutions would, like STIHL’s suggested solo-mode story mode. And I asked you about this before, about a single raid that’s specifically tuned at a lower difficulty than the current raids, and I think you didn’t mind that idea though I’d have to double check. That’s a compromise in particular that I don’t think is a bad idea- But I’m speaking of myself, and not necessarily Tex who you were quoting, so forgive me if I missed the specificity.
Thirdly, it enables a development direction that neglects the rest of the game in favor of the raids. If you ask for raid modes that cover every difficulty, don’t be surprised if all you start seeing in future releases is raids. I’ve been saying this all through the thread; if you want to see what kind of impact on content development multi-modal raiding has, go look at WoW.
And there’s the whole “progression is doing the fight on easy mode, then on hard mode”, which really detracts from how fun the raids are.
I’ve already told you that it’s fun.
This is pretty much what i’ve been saying since the entire easy mode thing came about.
Sans some petty personal attacks at the select few….
I’d be perfectly fine with a cutscene only mode where in if you want the lore you get a guided camera walkthrough, see the bosses spawn, die and any cinematics that may exist.
But i’m so far against the notion of an easy mode that there is only one way i’d even begin to fathom it’s existence. No Achievements, 1 copper and 1 karma for your time, no unique loot. It’s easy mode, you should not be rewarded for this. However, those who want the easy mode would say “But that’s a waste of time”. Yeah, i’m aware it is, just as you are aware the concept of an easy mode is “a waste of time”. So much so, that rather than listen to Gaile’s advice to stop speculation on how quickly it would be done, you’d rather ignore it and place bets.
Except here’s your hard line….
How is that at all a fair compromise ?
Because it’s taking nothing from you.
At this moment, you do not only want something for yourself, you want also to deny something to us. That’s where the difference is.
Our position, in which we want something for ourself but do not want to deny anything to you is already a compromise, but for some reason it seems that for you a “hardstance” is asking you to compromise on anything, while a “compromise” is getting things you want anyway.
If compromise is really something you can’t live with, however, then ok, have it your way. Let’s burn raids to the ground and salt the earth. Nobody will get access to that content and lore, nobody will get access to the rewards, noone will get legendary armor. That would remove this problem too. And would free the developers to put out the fires elsewhere (and we already know Anet needs developers working on other projects really bad).
Except it is.
It’s taking away the unique reward factor. The reason that keeps people returning to said content.
It’s also taking people out of said content, because why on gods green earth would you do the current raids, when you could just do the easy ones and still be rewarded on an equal if not better use of your time.
But you know…keep being dismissive of this, when its painfully clear that both you and ohoni just want the legendary armor without actually putting in the same effort as those that are currently going through it.
As per the whole story, boo hoo cry me a river. It’s on youtube, go watch it.
You want, you want, you want….But unwilling to accept that your wants come at a cost, that being rewards.
They don’t come with a cost. You’ve arbitrarily decided that they should come with a cost when there’s no reason for them to. The “cost” is that you get less rewards per raid, that it takes LONGER to acquire the good stuff. That is all the cost that is necessary. There is absolutely no reason to remove the rewards entirely, any more than there would be reason to just offer the rewards and none of the content. You can have both.
I’m the one offering a deal in which we both get what we want, you’re the one insisting that only you should get what you want. If it’s greed, it’s not coming from my side.
The bold = Greed.
Doesn’t need to be any clearer than that. You want both, you should know better than that. At no point is anet or any game company worth half their salt going to make the same mistake another AAA game studio did and hand out rewards just for showing up.
The newer Legendaries are supposed to showcase your dedication to a mode of play. You don’t get the PvP backpiece by being on the forums, you dont get the fractal backpiece by being in WvW, you don’t get legendary armor by PvP’ing. You get them by playing the modes that award them.
If you sincerely think any form of an easy mode will come with “progress toward legendaries” you’re in denial.
What you want here is beyond silly. A new mode that caters to your “idea” of the minimum requirement of effort needed for the Armor. Here’s a very small hint….Anet has already gone over the requirements, they said go play the raid.
Yes, the thing that has to go is that easy mode would be the ONLY mode.
We get an easy mode that offers reduced rewards, that IS the compromise position. I feel like I’m fighting Congress here.
I’m not asking for anything unique, I’m asking for access to the rewards that are currently locked behind raids. Now I’m open to the idea of easy mode not containing those things, but then they would have to be made available through some other content of easy-mode-equivalent difficulty, and I don’t see the point of that when the simplest solution is to just tie them into the easy mode content.
Here we go again with the unwillingness to compromise.
You want, you want, you want….But unwilling to accept that your wants come at a cost, that being rewards.
Sorry to say, what you’re preaching yet again isn’t compromise. It’s greed.
You’re only version of compromise is when you are happy. Anyone else can be told to shove off.
But I’m not taking ANYTHING from you! You have no justification to complain! It’s like you have a $100 bill, and I say “Can I have a $100 bill too?”
“Mine? No.”
“No, not yours, a new one will be given to me, you can keep yours.”
“Still, no, I like that you don’t have one.”
“Well how about a $20 bill?”
“Nope, I can only be happy if I have this $100 bill and you have nothing.”I’m sorry, but that is not a reasonable position to hold your ground on.
It’s quite hilarious that you bring up compromise but are unwilling to give into not making any progress or getting unique rewards. That’s the exact opposite of compromise.
Ok, fine. If we’re going to abandon compromise then we’ll abandon compromise. No easy mode, just nerf the one and only form of raiding into being easy mode, problem solved, no compromise necessary.
I too like hyperbole that misses the point.
If you get an easy mode….something has to go. Pretty straight foward form of compromise. Yes ?
So explain why you should get anything unique, let alone progress toward something that is a symbol of prestige and hard work ?
I know you can’t because frankly, your whole position is that of greed. You want the rewards without putting in the time or effort. Which frankly is why you are in no position to talk about compromise.
Except here’s your hard line….
How is that at all a fair compromise ?
Because it does NOT:
- Nerf or alter existing raids or their rewards in any way. Anything you could do in or receive from a raid today, you would continue to have available.
- Provide identical rewards between easy and hard mode. Easy mode would offer a reduced amount of rewards, so that if hard mode is achievable for you, it will always be the most efficient way to spend your time.
Either of these things would be on the table if compromise was not the goal. The problem is that you insist only on a compromise in which no one is happy.
You’re only version of compromise is when you are happy. Anyone else can be told to shove off.
It’s quite hilarious that you bring up compromise but are unwilling to give into not making any progress or getting unique rewards. That’s the exact opposite of compromise.
Gold is the only thing that matters.
Crafting only matters if you want the option to make ascended gear/legendaries
Why do we even have Swords ? Clearly the Greatsword is superior. Let’s just replace all swords with greatswords. Give mesmers something else for it because it would be silly for them to dual wield greatswords.
Swords are one-handed, while Greatswords are two-handed, for starters. Their skins are also radically different. Also, they have completely different gameplay across all classes (And both have uneven distribution across the classes. Reapers can use Greatswords, but not Swords. Revenants can use Swords, but not Greatswords. A guardian with a sword doesn’t play anything like a Guardian with a Greatsword. Swords and Greatswords are both seen on Warriors for radically different uses, and in different combinations with other weapons.
:O
You dont say. I would have never guessed that 2 distinctly different classes use weapons differently. I would have also never guessed that the short bow on ranger plays entirely different than the longbow on ranger.
Look we all get you hate the “Legendary Snafu” but gutting classes for this sorta logic…if one can even call it that is silly.
Also, to the people who didn’t get the joke….I’m sorry in future i will write all responses that have a joke or sarcasm with a /s. I’m told this is how reddit does it.
Ranger shortbow doesn’t play differently enough from Ranger Longbow compared to how Warrior Sword+Shield plays differently from Warrior Greatsword, and far differently than Warrior Mace+Sword. And Greatswords and Swords look and animate differently.
And yes, two classes can be wildly different with the same weapon. So why is the Thief barred from using the same bow skins Warriors and Guardians can use, and vice-versa?
You’re joking right ?
Ranger SB play is entirely different than that of longbow. Longbow is literally range dictation the game. SB is positioning and evasion the game. One is a Condi weapon, the other power. They have distinctly different play patterns…..Something you really should be aware of before making such a baseless claim.
The reason, because apparently this is lost somehow is because a SB != LB.
The more you know.
Why do we even have Swords ? Clearly the Greatsword is superior. Let’s just replace all swords with greatswords. Give mesmers something else for it because it would be silly for them to dual wield greatswords.
Swords are one-handed, while Greatswords are two-handed, for starters. Their skins are also radically different. Also, they have completely different gameplay across all classes (And both have uneven distribution across the classes. Reapers can use Greatswords, but not Swords. Revenants can use Swords, but not Greatswords. A guardian with a sword doesn’t play anything like a Guardian with a Greatsword. Swords and Greatswords are both seen on Warriors for radically different uses, and in different combinations with other weapons.
:O
You dont say. I would have never guessed that 2 distinctly different classes use weapons differently. I would have also never guessed that the short bow on ranger plays entirely different than the longbow on ranger.
Look we all get you hate the “Legendary Snafu” but gutting classes for this sorta logic…if one can even call it that is silly.
Also, to the people who didn’t get the joke….I’m sorry in future i will write all responses that have a joke or sarcasm with a /s. I’m told this is how reddit does it.
Edit: Oh can someone link me the page where Ohoni told of his grand ways to get loot and make things easier.
Done.
When people try to come to a middle ground with you the response is
“Nope”.
I’m all about the middleground, but so far the only “middlegrounds” proposed are “what if they fix LFG?”-type “solutions” that actually solve zero of the problems raised.
If I were taking the same hard line stance as you guys, then my position would be "NERF the existing raids, so that the ONLY raid in the game is one of equivalent risk to a standard dungeon. That is not the stance I am taking. I have always held the stance that you guys can keep your hard mode raids 100% intact. All I’ve been asking for is an ALTERNATIVE to that, which allows for players to experience the existing raid content in an easier manner, if they want to, and to have a slow but steady progression towards the same rewards. How is that not a fair compromise?
Except here’s your hard line….
How is that at all a fair compromise ?
Why should something easier, give anywhere near the same rewards let alone progress on something that is ultimately meant to be prestigious.
And please don’t post your hypothetical reward system, i’ve seen it and its bad. No, you shouldnt get fragment insights, no you shouldn’t get achievements, no you shouldnt get any sort of ascended or unique loot, no you shouldn’t get rewarded for easy modes.
If you want a mode to experience the story or to learn (although this has been discussed ad nasuem and it’s clear learning isn’t what you want) then fine. You should not be rewarded for that.
You want rewards, there’s this thing called doing the content. Even if you fail while doing said content you are still being rewarded. Eventually, people (excluding yourself) will succeed and be able to use those shard to gear up, or get unique skins….
Point is these people learned the raids instead of sitting on these forums all day complaining about something that really doesn’t need developer attention.
The point is that different people enjoy different types of experiences, and while I don’t doubt for a second that these people, and likely a lot of you, have had a TON of fun playing raids in their current form, I am also absolutely positive that I will never be capable of enjoying those same raids the way you do. I am just wired differently than that, I do not enjoy overcoming high challenge as much as you do, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
The only problem here is your continued inability to understand that not every person is identical.
Not sure if salty or just generally making blanket statements because ?
Also, not sure how you can say any of that based on your 20 minutes of raiding experience.
Seriously, you want the rewards ?
You want to play your own way ?
Make yourself a group, tell people you’re running X build with X gear and go have yourself a casual good time.
I just wish you guys were more interested in compromising on this and working towards a mutually agreeable solution, because the more rigid you insist on being, the more likely you’re going to be shattered entirely.
Pot, meet kettle.
When people try to come to a middle ground with you the response is
“Nope”.
When people try to tell you, you’re idea of easy modes should not be rewarding your response is:
“Im getting my way and Legendary Armor, your ideas are horrible, mine are superior”
So why would anyone work with you when you don’t want to work with anyone who doesn’t agree with you ?
Why can’t someone do a fun run in the Raid? Or experiment in the Raid?
Might to explain that one to Ohoni, after all you’re the one that’s been telling them that it has to be difficult because it’s a raid.
Sorry, but now you are sounding like a casual wanting a free ride, and a easy pass.
What’s this about No fun allowed ?
I’m sure there’s more and i’m sure i could keep going…..
Point is these people learned the raids instead of sitting on these forums all day complaining about something that really doesn’t need developer attention.
Oh and one last one for anyone complaining about a “Hard Gear Check”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DFPFQCc47Q
Why do we even have Swords ? Clearly the Greatsword is superior. Let’s just replace all swords with greatswords. Give mesmers something else for it because it would be silly for them to dual wield greatswords.
Did you even watch it, listen to it ?
Yes, did you?
I find this incredibly hard to believe.
If you had actually watched it, you would have heard them saying that if you love MMO’s you’ll want to check out GW2, if you hate MMO’s you’ll want to really check out GW2.
At what point does this mean they ever didn’t target MMO players ?
you do realize, this statement you’re saying exactly too is in direct contradiction to what you claim is a fact about gw2 being the fosters home equivalent for mmo players ?
No, I said “exactly” because it does nothing to contradict that. Thanks for backing me up.
I have no words for this…. literally.
Did you even watch it, listen to it ?
[citation needed]
Not really.
I’ll just leave this fact here…..
https://youtu.be/35BPhT-KI1E?t=42s
This one unlike other claims of “Fact” is not in dispute.
Exactly.
you do realize, this statement you’re saying exactly too is in direct contradiction to what you claim is a fact about gw2 being the fosters home equivalent for mmo players ?
I’ll just leave this fact here…..
https://youtu.be/35BPhT-KI1E?t=42s
This one unlike other claims of “Fact” is not in dispute.
The logical inference being that they thought “hey raids have this participation rate in other games, they’ll have a similar rate in GW2”. The boss gave the go-ahead with that information, and raids have had a higher rate. Pretty straightforward.
You’re assuming.
Knowing that GW2’s audience was very different than other games, they may have (should have) hoped that the raids would be accessible enough that they would be picked up by way more than the MMO standard. Whether they have or not is unclear. There’s no reason to assume that they would be fine with a standard 5% adoption rate, when they could be hitting a 20-40% adoption rate if they made the content a bit more flexible.
So now you’re against assumptions.
Ironic, when you claim things are an easy fix even after being told to stop.
Double irony, when you complain about assumptions, and then continue on to post an assumption.
It’s pretty ironic, Ohoni, that with all the time you spent on this forum arguing for something that will not happen (or maybe in a far far future) simply because anet doesn’t have enough developpers ressources to fix something that is not broken, you could have succeeded in raid by improving yourself.
But not, you’re so against the idea of improvement that you prefer spending your time here… quite funny actually.They just freed up a half-dozen people from doing Legendary quests who could likely take care of Easy Mode Raids in an afternoon, before moving on to other things.
Why yes, because designing legendaries is indeed equal to making and designing entire instanced content…..
Additionally, no they can’t they have their orders from Mo. It’s not working on some half baked idea you came up with. It’s fixing the real reason you’re complaining, the content drought.
Why is this one person suddenly any more relevant than any other ?
This one person isn’t.
Why is this groups need (to have content changed to their whim) suddenly more necessary to do at the expense of others ?
Maybe because this group is much, much bigger, and them getting disappointed is going to hurt the game way more?
and Why does the gem store have anything to do with this to begin with ?
Because it’s the main source of funding for the game, bigger than box purchases.
If your entire argument is money talks, then please take it and leave as that’s never been a valid reason for changing content.
I sincerely doubt Anet’s in this for charity. Of course money talks, it’s business after all.
Except that the absurdly baseless claim was made by one person. That their money is somehow more valuable than someone else.
Maybe said one group, should just do the content then ? Or realize that there’s other content already out there for them to do, since by the admission of the person making such baseless statements they don’t care about raiding. There’s been at no point a valid reason for any attempts at a new mode of raiding that makes it worths the time or investment to even begin to attract the so called “bigger” group of people who are only after one thing, Legendary Armor.
I agree the gemstore funds the game, and i reiterate what makes your purchase any more valuable than anyone else ?
Yes, Anet is a business. It was their business decision to make content that had unique rewards tied to it. Those rewards push players to go above and beyond the rest of the content. PvP has a unique backpiece, Fractals has a unique backpiece, WvW will likely have one as well. PvE has every other skin imaginable, and Raids have a unique armorset, and weapon skins.
So why not go play the content as its part of the business model.
Just wondering Tex, you seem very anti difficulty setting for some reason and keep sticking to your mindset of raids needing to be purely “exclusive only” content, but that mindset drastically changes when it comes to economy related stuff.
You on the legendary weapon process…
“Instead of starting from the ground up and making the entire process something achievable by even the casual crowd, they’ve actually gone and pushed it into a very niche grind centric crowd.”It’s very interesting how players are voicing the same sentiments about raids, but you seem to use more of a noninclusive attitude toward providing options for the casual crowd… Mind you, my suggestion also adds upward scaling too…
So I’ll leave some words of your wisdom to help put aside that anti casual raid mentality…
“It’s that sorta mentality that prevents progress from actually being made and the game from being fun for everyone and not the minority that hoard gold like skirtts hoard junk.”
“Yes it met it’s target goals, but in doing so it failed the average player base drastically and turns people away from actively playing the game. I’m saying this as a player who is a part of several large guilds and the same sentiments can be heard from a vast majority of anyone who is not new to the game.”
Since you love to use my words completely out of context let me say exactly what i’ve been saying.
This portion is completely off topic… “Amalgamated Gemstones” which is the entire thing you’re referencing are bunk. Everyone can acknowledge that at the current rate the are not a sustainable market. Anet themselves even acknowledged this in their AMA.
Now that we’ve covered the off topic nonsense. Lets get back to raids.
Raids filled the whole in the game that was non-zerg, group content that was challenging and appropriately rewarding. Guess what was also acknowledged in the AMA, that raid participation is higher than in any other mmo and there’s no plans for an easy mode. The only plan is to do something for LFG.
You want to hazard a guess as to why they won’t be touching the difficulty ? It might have something to do with the remaining 98% of content out there. Heck, it might even have something to do with raids being designed around being challenging.
You know what they will never do ? Remove the unique raid rewards from the raids to cater to the people who actively refuse to participate in the content. And why should they, not like they’re handing out the Ascension or Ad Infinitum to people who don’t fractal and don’t PvP. So why, should anyone who doesn’t raid feel entitled to the Envoy Armor ?
Sometimes, as an adult you just have to accept the fact that not everything is fair and not everything is for everyone. Raids just aren’t for you, they never were and changing that experience so you can feel whole is an insult to the raid development team.
It’s completely within context. There is one area of the game that you want to be more casual friendly. So, like you, there are players who want an area of the game to be more casual friendly…
Your post history clearly shows your dislike for the way the economy has been handled and I can present your own quotes if you wish… There are players who do not like the way raids have been introduced… Same same.
You’re not going to deflect on this one.
Which is still out of context as the economy has no bearing on the discussion.
But it’s okay, Anet has agreed with what i’ve stated now twice. Once about Amalgamated Gemstones, and about Raiding. I’d say i’m batting 1000, while you’re at 0.
So please bring on the out of context quotes which i’ve already defend once.
This is not a goal that most players want to strive for. They can either pass it, or not pass it, there is no try. I wish you could understand that.
Who are you to speak for most ?
Let alone to say they cannot try…..
Warrior.
It’s been in almost every RPG since the beginning of RPG history.
But in GW2, still Warrior.
It really does not fill the character archetype it’s trying to fill, and with berserker they jumped the shark and tried to turn it into some condi abomination
Why is this one person suddenly any more relevant than any other ?
This one person isn’t.
Why is this groups need (to have content changed to their whim) suddenly more necessary to do at the expense of others ?
Maybe because this group is much, much bigger, and them getting disappointed is going to hurt the game way more?
and Why does the gem store have anything to do with this to begin with ?
Because it’s the main source of funding for the game, bigger than box purchases.
If your entire argument is money talks, then please take it and leave as that’s never been a valid reason for changing content.
I sincerely doubt Anet’s in this for charity. Of course money talks, it’s business after all.
Except that the absurdly baseless claim was made by one person. That their money is somehow more valuable than someone else.
Maybe said one group, should just do the content then ? Or realize that there’s other content already out there for them to do, since by the admission of the person making such baseless statements they don’t care about raiding. There’s been at no point a valid reason for any attempts at a new mode of raiding that makes it worths the time or investment to even begin to attract the so called “bigger” group of people who are only after one thing, Legendary Armor.
I agree the gemstore funds the game, and i reiterate what makes your purchase any more valuable than anyone else ?
Yes, Anet is a business. It was their business decision to make content that had unique rewards tied to it. Those rewards push players to go above and beyond the rest of the content. PvP has a unique backpiece, Fractals has a unique backpiece, WvW will likely have one as well. PvE has every other skin imaginable, and Raids have a unique armorset, and weapon skins.
So why not go play the content as its part of the business model.
Just wondering Tex, you seem very anti difficulty setting for some reason and keep sticking to your mindset of raids needing to be purely “exclusive only” content, but that mindset drastically changes when it comes to economy related stuff.
You on the legendary weapon process…
“Instead of starting from the ground up and making the entire process something achievable by even the casual crowd, they’ve actually gone and pushed it into a very niche grind centric crowd.”It’s very interesting how players are voicing the same sentiments about raids, but you seem to use more of a noninclusive attitude toward providing options for the casual crowd… Mind you, my suggestion also adds upward scaling too…
So I’ll leave some words of your wisdom to help put aside that anti casual raid mentality…
“It’s that sorta mentality that prevents progress from actually being made and the game from being fun for everyone and not the minority that hoard gold like skirtts hoard junk.”
“Yes it met it’s target goals, but in doing so it failed the average player base drastically and turns people away from actively playing the game. I’m saying this as a player who is a part of several large guilds and the same sentiments can be heard from a vast majority of anyone who is not new to the game.”
Since you love to use my words completely out of context let me say exactly what i’ve been saying.
This portion is completely off topic… “Amalgamated Gemstones” which is the entire thing you’re referencing are bunk. Everyone can acknowledge that at the current rate the are not a sustainable market. Anet themselves even acknowledged this in their AMA.
Now that we’ve covered the off topic nonsense. Lets get back to raids.
Raids filled the whole in the game that was non-zerg, group content that was challenging and appropriately rewarding. Guess what was also acknowledged in the AMA, that raid participation is higher than in any other mmo and there’s no plans for an easy mode. The only plan is to do something for LFG.
You want to hazard a guess as to why they won’t be touching the difficulty ? It might have something to do with the remaining 98% of content out there. Heck, it might even have something to do with raids being designed around being challenging.
You know what they will never do ? Remove the unique raid rewards from the raids to cater to the people who actively refuse to participate in the content. And why should they, not like they’re handing out the Ascension or Ad Infinitum to people who don’t fractal and don’t PvP. So why, should anyone who doesn’t raid feel entitled to the Envoy Armor ?
Sometimes, as an adult you just have to accept the fact that not everything is fair and not everything is for everyone. Raids just aren’t for you, they never were and changing that experience so you can feel whole is an insult to the raid development team.
Why is this one person suddenly any more relevant than any other ?
This one person isn’t.
Why is this groups need (to have content changed to their whim) suddenly more necessary to do at the expense of others ?
Maybe because this group is much, much bigger, and them getting disappointed is going to hurt the game way more?
and Why does the gem store have anything to do with this to begin with ?
Because it’s the main source of funding for the game, bigger than box purchases.
If your entire argument is money talks, then please take it and leave as that’s never been a valid reason for changing content.
I sincerely doubt Anet’s in this for charity. Of course money talks, it’s business after all.
Except that the absurdly baseless claim was made by one person. That their money is somehow more valuable than someone else.
Maybe said one group, should just do the content then ? Or realize that there’s other content already out there for them to do, since by the admission of the person making such baseless statements they don’t care about raiding. There’s been at no point a valid reason for any attempts at a new mode of raiding that makes it worths the time or investment to even begin to attract the so called “bigger” group of people who are only after one thing, Legendary Armor.
I agree the gemstore funds the game, and i reiterate what makes your purchase any more valuable than anyone else ?
Yes, Anet is a business. It was their business decision to make content that had unique rewards tied to it. Those rewards push players to go above and beyond the rest of the content. PvP has a unique backpiece, Fractals has a unique backpiece, WvW will likely have one as well. PvE has every other skin imaginable, and Raids have a unique armorset, and weapon skins.
So why not go play the content as its part of the business model.
….And you think people playing raids aren’t equally if not more invested in the game than yourself. This is a very enlightening development.
No, he is simply pointing out, that the raiders are too small a subset of the community to sustain that game.
Also, yeah, hardcores are far more likely to use gold to gems exchange than buy gems for cash
Missing the point…..
Why is this one person suddenly any more relevant than any other ?
Why is this groups need (to have content changed to their whim) suddenly more necessary to do at the expense of others ?
and Why does the gem store have anything to do with this to begin with ?
If your entire argument is money talks, then please take it and leave as that’s never been a valid reason for changing content.
Because we’re the ones that pay to keep the game running so you have a place to raid in? I’m not sure what the question is here.
….And you think people playing raids aren’t equally if not more invested in the game than yourself. This is a very enlightening development.
It’s clear you don’t get it.
Why should any developer go out of there way, to make a new mode of raids when the people complaining the loudest have already stated they don’t care about raids. What you all seem to have in common instead is wanting “Legendary Armor” without actually wanting to partake in the content it’s designed around.
So please enlighten us as why they should waste time and resources on a new mode of raids ?
Tired of quoting those massive walls and fixing it.
Why should anet waste any time or resources on people who like yourself have no interest in raids ?
What you want is not raids, nor is it the raiding experience. You want dungeons, and fractals. Thankfully for you those still exist, so please go play them.
Mid Air Immob is certainly up there as one of the most infuriating things in the game.
It’s funny how people feel like they’re entitled to something.
Agreed. Just look at them Raiders.
Zzzz this argument has no merit when the first one to bring up raids was Anet themselves in this CDI https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Guilds-Raiding/first
Downstate will…but we already knew that one.
I know Continuum shift/split dont.
Druid staff 3 doesn’t as far as i can recall from using it and others using it.
And that’s why I am not suggesting they make ANY changes to the existing raids. That clearly is part of the point of the existing raids and should remain intact. But for those players who do not want to meet the requirements of the existing raids, an easier mode would allow them to enjoy the content as well.
But you are. By your very own admission, you want them to assign a new raid team to create a new version of the same raid, that is changing the existing content. That is something that goes against the very spirit that raids were designed around. Not only that, people who have no interest in raids in there current state should not be specially catered to because they lack the drive to improve. That’s a very poor reason to change what is a very solid addition to the game which filled a lacking spot in challenging group content. Changing this in any way devalues the entire experience and undermines the integrity of their design.
Y’know if you can’t manage going to metabattle and checking what a strong build for your class is, you probably aren’t up to snuff to raid.
This is why we’re discussing an easier gameplay mode, so that going to “metabattle” is less of a requirement. Come as you are, it’ll be ok.
That defeats the entire purpose of the designed content. It’s not supposed to be come as you are. It’s supposed to be “Oh hey that didn’t work, lets adapt.” Eventually, you as a group overcome the encounter by learning and adapting and bringing the tools needed for the encounter, and yes this includes your gear.
Forums → Weekend → Raid → Repeat
If we’re extremely lucky i may do a weekday raid or even fractal. But as is it’s just a daily log in and log out.
So are there any guilds scheduling teaching runs? I mean it’s all good to post that your doing them but doesn’t help if people don’t know when. Or did I miss that in one of the posts.
They (the OP) already did them, and already stated they likely wont keep to a regular schedule.
They’ve gutted and abandoned dungeons which should not have happened. They’ve changed the fractal experience to be utter garbage, granted this is in part due to the player base doing swamps of the mists as its the path of least resistance. Additionally, they’ve yet to do anything good to facilitate community/guild finding. For the final nail in whats wrong with the game, the one everyone knows is bad, LFG. It’s a hack of a solution for the actual problem.
But sure lets, blame it on raids as they are the new thing. Don’t worry, we’ve all seen this before as not even 4 weeks ago it was blame it on eSports. Heck i wouldn’t be surprised if it comes back to the blame eSports thing in 3 weeks now that S2 is underway.
LFG is a mess. I am 100% with you on improving LFG. The only part I disagree with you is your insistence that fixing LFG would in any way address the complaints being raids about raids. I also have plenty of issues with eSports and PvP, and while I don’t personally Fractal much, I agree with a lot of the complaints about how it encourages “limited” play of them, and would welcome moves to resolve that.
The complaints about raise are genuine and complete, they are not a distraction or side-effect of other issues, and they will remain until they are resolved. They might rise and fall as raids get more or less attention compared to other issues, but that doesn’t mean the interest in getting them fixed has vanished, just that the news cycle tends to shift over time. Stop waiting for this to just go away on its own, it will not. Either work to resolve it or just accept that it’s an unresolved issue that you don’t care about and move on.
Sorry, but no.
Not all complaints are genuine. OR are you forgetting your “Lol no” response from earlier ?
There’s problems with fluidity in the game, moving people from easier content to more challenging content. The changes you want have nothing to do with that. There’s problems with group finding. Again, your changes have nothing to do with that either.
Those should be your talking points, not rewards, not how you don’t care, not how raids aren’t for you, not how you hate failing, not how you want raids to be a 10 minute affair, those are not legitimate concerns.
(edited by TexZero.7910)
@Blaeys
The only problem with this is rocking 1600 toughness goes directly against the mechanics on a few on the raid bosses such as VG. This means that as a tempest, Ohani will be holding aggro. It’s pretty much raid 101 that whoever has the most toughness on bosses who hold aggro, will receive the aggro.
What this implies is that zero work has gone into researching what the heck is going on in this new crazy content. It’s like hopping in a level 100 fractal with exotic gear. Is that a reasonable request?
Like, if he was wearing condi gear or anything I could understand this, but to get 1600 toughness… this means you’re wearing a random array of stats without an understanding on how it’s impacting your performance.
One thing about raids, which is fundamental to raids, is that there are roles to be filled. People have jobs to do. Bringing in a tempest with 1600 toughness tends to cause problems. Take Gors. You put the tempest in charge of taking care of blue orbs. The tempest has a 50% dps cut in exchange for unneeded survivability. Those orbs are going to overrun the place. Whose fault is that? The game?
Except in fractals, he has another way to experience the fight that doesn’t require the gear and attention to meta you are talking about – level 1-10 fractals.
Following the same analogy, no one is asking them to nerf the raid (the lvl 100 fractal). They are basically asking for the lvl 1 fractal equivalent of that raid. It doesn’t change the nature of the level 100 in any way – it just extends the experience to a wider group of players.
And, no one is saying he can’t run his “unique” build. He can, he’s just far less likely to have success with the harder content. Every piece of content has a meta and meta builds. That doesn’t mean non-meta stuff can’t work, it just means you’re less likely to find a PUG group that will take you. If you really want to run a unique build, there’s always the option of starting your own group and leading it.
However, the people which are being described wont even go that far, and they do want easy modes with equal rewards.
Cyninja – I mean ascended armor does provide a stat boost however small. Saying it isn’t worth it is a matter of perspective, but mathematically wrong…
Actually if you look at the cost to stats ratio of Exotic and Ascended gear, I think it’s not mathematically wrong at all. In fact, it’s even more evident that Ascended gear is not really worth the cost. It’s a luxury and luxuries are only ‘worth it’ if the cost doesn’t mean much to you.
Sure, but I view 600g +- chests as worth it for the gain in stats as many players do. It’s all perspective and really not up to the player to dictate what groups require. What you are arguing has been discussed above. What I was saying is the gain in stats with always be mathematically beneficial for a group that is progressing.
Yes, but that’s not an objective measure of worth; cost/stats ratio is.
Only if you view worth as purely a monetary thing. Which is the point that was being made, is that worth is not strictly a monetary thing.
You’re right, it’s not a raid issue. It’s a game issue. Raids do well what they are meant to do, it’s just hurting the rest of the game. And yes, it’s mostly due to them creating personal issues for a large part of the game population.
I beg to differ, what hurts the rest of the game is the game itself, not raids.
They’ve gutted and abandoned dungeons which should not have happened. They’ve changed the fractal experience to be utter garbage, granted this is in part due to the player base doing swamps of the mists as its the path of least resistance. Additionally, they’ve yet to do anything good to facilitate community/guild finding. For the final nail in whats wrong with the game, the one everyone knows is bad, LFG. It’s a hack of a solution for the actual problem.
But sure lets, blame it on raids as they are the new thing. Don’t worry, we’ve all seen this before as not even 4 weeks ago it was blame it on eSports. Heck i wouldn’t be surprised if it comes back to the blame eSports thing in 3 weeks now that S2 is underway.