Guild Wars 2

Ohoni.6057:

that’s fine, you enjoy what you enjoy and let me enjoy what I enjoy.

So not raids correct ?

Okay now that we are on the same page. Can we enjoy what we enjoy and you go play whatever mode it is that has 100% success rate without the chance of failure.

Cherubael.8670:

TexZero.7910:

No but do you actually think them adding to the game is a bad idea, because that’s what they did.

If they want to aim the game towards my interests and keeping me as a happy customer, then yes. It is a bad idea, or at best a neutral one, depending on whether they put something sufficiently desirable behind it that it becomes difficult to just ignore. And development time spent is not free: those resources could potentially be diverted to other tasks which might interest more people.

Are there enough raiders that spending this time is worthwhile? No one but ArenaNet knows. I don’t think they are doing very well at keeping their core demographic supplied with things to do though, so maybe they should focus on that more instead of continuing to do new experiments.

From my perspective I honestly doubt that GW2 can attract enough raiders to make it worthwhile, as it seems rather basic compared to what raid-centric MMOs like WoW have to offer. But who knows.

It doesn’t have to attract any new raiders for it to be worth it, or are we going to ignore the call from the PvE community asking for harder content ?

We now have it.

That didn’t come at any hindrance to LS3, they are entirely different teams creating and telling those stories. That content is coming, in the later end of Q3 as has been stated by the CEO/Lead Game Designer now.

Swagger.1459:

You are not getting off that easy…

It was very much in context to the spirit of this thread.

You want X part of the game to be more inclusive and casual friendly, and some players want X part of the game to be more inclusive and casual friendly.

At what point did i say i want the economy to be more casual friendly ?

I said i don’t enjoy it, never said i could not adapt to it.

QED – Adapt. Go raid, get “good”, make friends.

Swagger.1459:

TexZero.7910:

Swagger.1459:

TexZero.7910:

Swagger.1459:

TexZero.7910:

Swagger.1459:

Coulter.2315:

Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.

It’s called adding options.

“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.

Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.

Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.

I didn’t say “all”.

You’re analogy doesn’t fit this topic.

Options won’t hurt the mode or other players.

Edit- Raid content across all mmos is low for many reasons, the devs should have handled things different and not made the same silly mistakes.

My analogy fits perfectly here.

You cannot currently do raids, because (reason)
You the customer, cannot buy goods because (reason)

Raids are fine in this game, the tools to move players into them are lack luster. The average player can complete a raid if they desire too.

It’s doesn’t fit, sorry.

Unfortunately you are not understanding the bigger picture.

If there was actually a big picture to get here. Unfortunately there isn’t.
This is just another complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions.

You think just because you cannot complete the raid that it requires; no demands immediate attention and an easy mode. It doesn’t. Try, and actually put in some effort to complete the raid and you’ll actually notice that there’s a huge difference between your complaint and the actual issue.

There is a bigger theme to this direct suggestion.

“Complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions” and the last paragraph… You are really embellishing and assuming things in this thread.

And you’ve yet to have any valid complaints….It is nothing more than entitlement. At the end of they day your argument is “Joe and Bob can raid, therefore I should be entitled to a mode for me” without ever looking at why Joe and Bob are actually able to raid and complete it.

You claim raids don’t offer enough “Diversity” or are “Exclusive” when in reality they are not.

Raids are open to players, who themselves want to. Who put in the very small modicum of time to socialize and find 9 players to play with. Literally every class has option so please spare me the meta debate.

If you cannot raid, it is a you problem not a game problem.

Swagger.1459:

I’m going to quote you for reasons…

TexZero.7910:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

TLDR; Create demand for worthless items with huge supply, rather than driving up the demand for items which already have healthy supply and demand.

Why would you think that John Smith et al haven’t already considered all of the high supply|low demand items?

Might be the cynic in me, but because i don’t think John Smith cares ?

Most of his post history comes off entirely as catering to micro’ing the economy so hard as to mirror a real world one which drags the fun out of even playing the game. His vision of the game caters to the extreme 1% than wants to sit there an play the TP all day long.

You “don’t think John Smith cares” because you feel he is catering to the 1% of players with regard to the economy and you feel that the only way to get ahead is if you play the tp all day… All of this economy stuff drags the fun out of playing the game for you…

So, given that I buy all my gold with gems and don’t have your economy issues, I could tell you to stop being a (I’ll use some of your own words) “complainer who feels entitled without putting in the work for gold or $ into the game”…

So here we have a case where you have issues with the economy being catered to a small group of players, yet when it comes to raids it’s all ok…

When you start removing “raw emotion” from your view, you’ll be able to look at this subject more objectively.

You did read, that whole cynic in me part right, no ?
Okay congrats on bringing in a quote out of context that has no bearing on the situation at hand. It was and still is my opinion that the changes to the economy were geared at the 1%. If i wanted to micromanage my day and make gold, my perception would likely shift. Not something i want to do at the current time. But if i did, see quote above where in not everything in the shop is for me, and some may be out of my price range at the current time. Look how well that actually applies to your situation.

Which yet again has no bearing on raids, or their perceived exclusivity.

Obtena.7952:

Personally, I think the argument isn’t to make an easy mode … it’s to have a nightmare mode; let’s acknowledge who these raids are targeted for.

That’s what the achievements are for. They add artificial difficulty and breed new strategies for the encounter.

Swagger.1459:

TexZero.7910:

Use whatever buzz word you want. It’s painfully clear you’ve not played the raids or put the time or energy into it.

Literally every class is viable including various states of non-elite spec builds.
Is there a “meta build” for every class. Yes. Is it the only build. No. Stop being delusional and trying to create an non-issue here.

Your post is taking things out of context. I suggest rereading things.

Things need to be more inclusive, not just designed or created for a small percentage of players. I’m sure you would agree with this mentality.

Raids are already inclusive, the only thing missing is a proper LFG tool which is in dev.

Again, you’re making a mountain out of literally a molehill.

Beldin.5498:

Ashen.2907:

Sartharina.3542:

you don’t play Guild Wars 2 for Raids.

You might want to change that, “you,” to an, “I,” if you want to be honest and/or accurate. Perhaps you do not play GW2 for raids, and luckily raids receive only a very tiny portion of the game’s development resources, but others do.

So you think there are people that played GW2 for over 3 year only because of raids ?

Makes me wonder how many people play GW2 only because of its fantastic housing,
open PvP or flying mounts ^^

No but do you actually think them adding to the game is a bad idea, because that’s what they did.

They filled a void in content for challenging instance content aimed at guilds/friends. There was nothing in the game for them, now there is.

There’s still the other 98% of the game for those that don’t want to raid.

Use whatever buzz word you want. It’s painfully clear you’ve not played the raids or put the time or energy into it.

Literally every class is viable including various states of non-elite spec builds.
Is there a “meta build” for every class. Yes. Is it the only build. No. Stop being delusional and trying to create an non-issue here.

The LFG tool revamp is already in dev, for some of the reasons you’ve stated.

Swagger.1459:

TexZero.7910:

Swagger.1459:

TexZero.7910:

Swagger.1459:

Coulter.2315:

Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.

It’s called adding options.

“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.

Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.

Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.

I didn’t say “all”.

You’re analogy doesn’t fit this topic.

Options won’t hurt the mode or other players.

Edit- Raid content across all mmos is low for many reasons, the devs should have handled things different and not made the same silly mistakes.

My analogy fits perfectly here.

You cannot currently do raids, because (reason)
You the customer, cannot buy goods because (reason)

Raids are fine in this game, the tools to move players into them are lack luster. The average player can complete a raid if they desire too.

It’s doesn’t fit, sorry.

Unfortunately you are not understanding the bigger picture.

If there was actually a big picture to get here. Unfortunately there isn’t.
This is just another complaint made out of entitlement and raw emotions.

You think just because you cannot complete the raid that it requires; no demands immediate attention and an easy mode. It doesn’t. Try, and actually put in some effort to complete the raid and you’ll actually notice that there’s a huge difference between your complaint and the actual issue.

Swagger.1459:

TexZero.7910:

Swagger.1459:

Coulter.2315:

Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.

It’s called adding options.

“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.

Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.

Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.

I didn’t say “all”.

You’re analogy doesn’t fit this topic.

Options won’t hurt the mode or other players.

Edit- Raid content across all mmos is low for many reasons, the devs should have handled things different and not made the same silly mistakes.

My analogy fits perfectly here.

You cannot currently do raids, because (reason)
You the customer, cannot buy goods because (reason)

Raids are fine in this game, the tools to move players into them are lack luster. The average player can complete a raid if they desire too.

I know it’s hard and requires perfect timing and a meta computer, but you can actually dodge this.

Also there’s this cheat you can run that silences all mobs, if you press F11 and turn Master Volume to 0 their evil screams don’t happen.

All professions are raid viable, and we don’t need another easy mode thread.

If you want to do the story, you have options. If you actually want to do the content, go out there and do the content. Complaining here that you aren’t willing to put in the time and effort wont help this change.

Jahroots.6791:

So many raiders seem to get a kind of satisfaction out of the ability to beat content that others cannot. Such a horribly selfish view.

’ I’m comfortable with this so it’s fine for everyone.’

It really isn’t. Lower level fractals never took anything away from 50s under the old system, they just let people have a go without as much hassle. Same principle here. You will still have your prestige rewards, and be able to enjoy beating raids the proper way.

Actually they do take away quite a bit, like building up a community and groups of players who are willing to actually work together.

Half the reason why we have such complaints about HoT / Raids is because the game was nerfed down to such a dismal state that near about everything could be solo’d.

Now we have added 1 piece of 10 man group content and people flip out instead of actually working with eachother and forming groups and communities. Heck i bet if all the “anti-raid/easy mode” crowd simply took some initiative and formed a guild that served as a raid roster you too would be able to complete the raid.

Swagger.1459:

Coulter.2315:

Please do not add extra difficulties, the Raids are fine as they are. Do not bend to a few complainers who refuse to put any effort into the Raid.

It’s called adding options.

“Complainers” are also customers that have brought up some valid concerns and ideas to improve raids.

Not all complaints are valid, some are just pure entitlement.

Understand that, yes you are a customer but that doesn’t mean everything being sold in the shop will appeal to you, and even if something does appeal to you it just might be out of your price range at the current time.

battledrone.8315:

TexZero.7910:

Gene Archer.8560:

And you dragged GW2 over to your raiding mentality instead of leaving it alone and letting it remain a non-raiding game.

He did nothing of the sort. The developers did as they felt and rightly so that adding content for controlled slightly larger than average encounters would foster community growth. It has.

Unfortunately a very vocal minority, oddly enough the same minority who complained about dungeons are now complaining about raids.

This group is never satisfied because following this flow chart is too hard for them. Replace Speed Run with “Non-Casual”.

“vocal minority”?
80% of the players play solo
90% dont raid at all
WHO is the vocal minority?

Citation needed. Thanks.

And sense i’m seeing a metric ton of personal attacks here against those that have raid i’ll just ask questions instead of those that still want an “easy” mode ?

1) How much time have you invested into the game
2) How much of that time is on a character you intended to raid with
3) How versatile a player are you when it comes to swapping your build
4) How much time if any have you spent in a guild
5) How much time if any have you spent organizing a consistent Raid group
6 ) How much time if any have spent failing to get the kill
7) Have ever taken the time to read a guide / watch a video about the raid encounter
8) Do you really understand the joy of overcoming failure with 9 other players

For all of you trying to gut raids down to having this easy mode remember, there are people out there who do this for hours on end in various guilds of various skill levels.

You’re complaints about it being hard are likely down to you being stubborn or unwilling to learn. I’m not saying this because i’m trying to talk down to you, however i’m saying this based on experience as someone who has sunk probably around 4 weeks into VG (2-3 hrs a day/ on Friday/Sat) with my guild getting it to a farmable state and another 4 weeks on Gorseval. You know what i would never ever ever remove, the joy of hearing those guild members realize they can do this, the tears, the laughter, the fun moments we’ve had. You know why we’ve had them, because we aren’t afraid of the challenge, death is a joke of an excuse to be afraid in this game, learn from your mistakes and iterate on your failures until you to succeed.

Gene Archer.8560:

And you dragged GW2 over to your raiding mentality instead of leaving it alone and letting it remain a non-raiding game.

He did nothing of the sort. The developers did as they felt and rightly so that adding content for controlled slightly larger than average encounters would foster community growth. It has.

Unfortunately a very vocal minority, oddly enough the same minority who complained about dungeons are now complaining about raids.

This group is never satisfied because following this flow chart is too hard for them. Replace Speed Run with “Non-Casual”.

I am not going to read that wall of text, because it likely boils down to the same arguments that have been made for an easy mode. None of which matter, because the raids aren’t as hard as people are making them out to be.

The only strict fight “DPS wise” is Gorseval, for your average group. This is not to say they aren’t challenging encounters, but the challenge lies in learning the fight. Once you do that the DPS comes naturally.

Additionally, easy modes don’t teach you properly. You wont know what’s fatal unless it’s actually fatal and so far only 2 attacks are actually fatal, Sabatha’s Flame Wall and Gorseval’s World Eater.

Let’s not even begin to talk rewards. Just no. Raids are supposed to be hard content, you want rewards work for it.

Never touched WoW raids.

Love the way raids are in GW2, they are very open and diverse. Unfortunately the casual side of the community has breed a very stale, side as well where in the most vocal are so lazy that the refuse to put in any effort to form groups or improve to the point that they can tackle the raids and would rather quit until raids become this games Queensdale.

The reason you can’t get people isn’t because of the levels or because of the servers.

It’s because what you’re looking to do is not worth doing (for the average player) for the time investment. You may want to look into joining a community specific guild that doesn’t mind not doing swamps of the mists.

Fenom.9457:

TexZero.7910:

He’s still a cakewalk. Even after his rework.

what world are you living in

It’s a planet called Earth. Pretty nice planet, loaded with all types of interesting things.

That said i’m not sure why you’re questioning where i’m living instead of why you cannot kill a loot pinata.

He’s still a cakewalk. Even after his rework.

Malediktus.9250:

It already is for most “skill levels”. You just need to put in effort to learn the mechanics of the bosses.

This………….

There’s 0 need for “Difficulty Settings”. It’s designed to be hard content, if you don’t like that there something like 40 zones worth of easier content +dungeons and Fractals for easy mode.

Stop trying to break what doesn’t need fixing.

SlyDevil.3952:

Did you know the existence of a story mode in dungeons reduced the total number of people who would choose to play the explorable mode after?

No, but the counter argument is

I only have to experience story once.
There’s alternative stories being told in explorable and that the existence of explorable did negatively impact story mode play through.

RyanCid.9270:

TexZero.7910:

RyanCid.9270:

You are comparing 100 levels of fractals to normal mode and easy mode

Problem still exist. The more variance you add, the lesser the pools become for both modes.

You’ll get people who don’t feel the easy mode is easy enough (wont raid), You’ll start dividing raiding guilds into Normal/Easy Hardcore/Casual. You’ll get those who want a whole new Hard Mode, after all what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

Opening the door to modular changes only increases divisiveness. You do end up hurting both community due to that.

Not at all.
Raiders who clear on normal mode have no reason to go to easy because there is less loot. (No loss on existing player pool)
But it allows players who else wouldn’t have tried raids at all to give it a try.

And if they clear easy mode a few times they will want to join the normal mode because it’s more loot efficient. (Total increase of raid population)

Purely speculative, unless you somehow have a crystal ball. Coming from someone who didn’t want anecdotal evidence where’s your proof ?

Players who have no interest in raids, would still have no interest in an easy mode as its still raids.

Where as people who do raid, will go to the normal runs to use it as a testing ground which removes them from the player pool.

@Thad

Not really Raids and Fractals can mutually co-exist as they aim for the same crowd. Hence why Raids were even marketed as if you have 4 friends you run fractals with, now you just need a 2nd party of similar players.

Raids, Fractals, and Dungeons can all co-exist as they do not infringe on each others toes and provide area’s for players to grow. Downgrading Raids to have an easy mode doesn’t increase the movement of players but causes stagnation in the the player pool. Where in people don’t feel they ever need to go do something higher because they can get what they want from the easier modes.

Hence why if you want to learn2play you should go to dungeons first, then Fractals to improve your overall skill and group play synergy. Then finally when you think you’ve peaked you can utilize the skills you’ve learned (social ones too) to create a group of like minded people and test yourselves against the raids.

Again though the raids aren’t even hard. The real problem is the tools not being in place. Dungeons being utter poop right now, and fractals being changed to this super casual 1 and done thing.

If fractals had not changed and you still had the 4 fractals in 1 shot, you would have seen more community growth and a much better social aspect develop as you actually would have had to spend time with people and get to know them.

It literally all comes back to the tools not being in place for players to progress, not raids being too hard.

RyanCid.9270:

You are comparing 100 levels of fractals to normal mode and easy mode

Problem still exist. The more variance you add, the lesser the pools become for both modes.

You’ll get people who don’t feel the easy mode is easy enough (wont raid), You’ll start dividing raiding guilds into Normal/Easy Hardcore/Casual. You’ll get those who want a whole new Hard Mode, after all what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

Opening the door to modular changes only increases divisiveness. You do end up hurting both community due to that.

for 24 character that amount of time seems standard.

I was doing that farm for a while myself (+ treasure chest on TD) and that took about 3hrs for 10 characters.

Nothing.

He’s not active because neither is whatever “next” collection step.

RyanCid.9270:

TexZero.7910:

Have you even raided ?

I’m not trying to make light of you, but it’s like you’re talking out of something other than a mouth here.

All of what your asking for is in raids, missing a mechanic != wipe. There are audio queues, there are visual queues.

The only lacking thing to get raids to a wider audience is the proper group formation tools which is in dev atm.

So again, why do raids need an easy mode when all an easy mode serves to do here is divide the community further, when the proper tools for bringing people in would decrease the divisive nature ?

Why would it divide the community? Easy mode has reduced rewards so that the ultimate goal is to guide new players more easy to the regular raid mode. if anything it adds to the community. Raiders who are familiar with raids wouldn’t do easy mode anyways.

See Fractals.

The more variation you add the less likely you are to find a group for you.

SidewayS.3789:

TexZero.7910:

SidewayS.3789:

1). You are a troll
2)You are kinda of kitten player, how doesnt/want to understand why ppls wants easy mode, hell even w/o rewards, at least to understand/learn the mechanics.

By my take, you are on the second option so GTFO.

Neither. I understand people wanting to learn.

I just come from a different school of thought than what you may be used to. If you want to learn the fight, learn the fight. Don’t go into a low / no stress environment as that doesn’t teach you properly.

Now then, the other point being made here is rather comical. People claiming they want the easy mode to learn but cannot be bothered to watch 5-8 minute videos of the fights ?

Okay seems legit.jpg

Ok, lets try to draw the picture for you, since you cant get it.
I give you a 10 minutes video of soldiers who are on the battlefield, after this i would give you a weapon to go on the battlefield to kill the enemy, w/o any training, only that 10 minutes video. Now, you understand? If no, then i’m sorry i will not replay, because you stucked your head in the sand, and from there you are screeming “i do raids, i iz best”

Or you know you could form a group of people attempting to learn the raid, go in and learn it ?

It’s not like there’s any consequence for failing……

See the biggest thing i’m noticing between those that go in there and raid and those that don’t is this. Those that don’t are afraid of failure. Those that do raid, know that failure is part of the learning process. This is why those players often seem “superior” or “better” than you. It’s because they took the time to learn from the countless mistakes instead of waiting for someone to tell them how everything works and certainly didn’t wait for an easy mode.

There’s something to be said for dedication and internal motivations for self-improvement. Try analyzing yourself here and see if maybe the raid isn’t the issue but you are.

SidewayS.3789:

1). You are a troll
2)You are kinda of kitten player, how doesnt/want to understand why ppls wants easy mode, hell even w/o rewards, at least to understand/learn the mechanics.

By my take, you are on the second option so GTFO.

Neither. I understand people wanting to learn.

I just come from a different school of thought than what you may be used to. If you want to learn the fight, learn the fight. Don’t go into a low / no stress environment as that doesn’t teach you properly.

Now then, the other point being made here is rather comical. People claiming they want the easy mode to learn but cannot be bothered to watch 5-8 minute videos of the fights ?

Okay seems legit.jpg

Thaddeus.4891:

But I don’t believe it will be enough.

Fair enough.

However, i don’t think placating and creating multiple raid modes is the right solution, if anything it’s a step backwards.

RyanCid.9270:

@TexZero
Refer to my past posts.

1.) Why? to address a bigger player base and to give a entry stage for more casual players which are part of the bigger player base

2.) How? Visual and audio indicators for boss attacks. Less wipe potential (its not 100% or 0% kitten @maddoctor) what I mean is if you kitten up once you maybe get downed to 20% hp but you can recover from one mistake. Why do you have to think in black and white? If you kitten it up twice in a row then it’s still a wipe.

3.) As to your third question refer to my first answer as it is the same.

I have said this 3 times now in this thread but you people keep dismissing it.

Have you even raided ?

I’m not trying to make light of you, but it’s like you’re talking out of something other than a mouth here.

All of what your asking for is in raids, missing a mechanic != wipe. There are audio queues, there are visual queues.

The only lacking thing to get raids to a wider audience is the proper group formation tools which is in dev atm.

So again, why do raids need an easy mode when all an easy mode serves to do here is divide the community further, when the proper tools for bringing people in would decrease the divisive nature ?

maddoctor.2738:

Raids in fractals. People have been asking for easy-mode raids but I don’t think that’s a good thing. So instead of that add the Raid bosses in Fractal format (for 5 people) with all the usual fractal rewards.

Want Raid rewards? Play the Raid.
Want to experience the story of the Raid? Play it in fractal form

This could work.

RyanCid.9270:

Guys please at least provide arguments that make sense

Sure, right after you stop dismissing valid arguments to further your own post agenda.

You’ve yet to address why we need an easy mode or how that’s actually going to help get people into raiding.

You’ve also yet to address the bottomless hole of just how easy we go and what happens when the easy mode isn’t easy enough.

You’ve also yet to address why the gameplay mode built around challenging players should have an easy mode to begin with, when there’s already content for those players to go an consume.

So please address these and maybe we can get back on track.

Thaddeus.4891:

TexZero.7910:

You must not be reading the same thread i am then, where in people are indeed asking for them to gut the raids by adding an easy mode.

ADDING an easy mode. You still have the normal mode, which is as hard as the current raid. The raid would still be 100% the same. There is just another mode that is easier with less reward.

Ever heard of subtraction by addition ?

That’s exactly what adding an Easy mode does.
Since you like to use games and game principals as examples i’ll use one you should be familiar with.

Have you ever wondered why as you climb in ranks for PvP your time to play becomes longer and longer ? It’s because as you climb the selection pool gets thinner and thinner. The same can be said in this case when add a mode to Raids which already has (if you believe the fantasy numbers) only 5% of the player base doing it.

Now does adding an easy mode actually add to people doing the current content ? No. Pretty straightforward.

What it does do, is add more time to development. Which if you are to go by what the general forum consensus believes is a bad idea for something that would be underutilized, especially when there’s not enough “Casual” content.

Making an easy mode of the raid doesn’t change the core problems these players are facing. Lack of Time / Proper Grouping Resources.

So again, why is this needed instead of the actual tools that would solve the problem and why should Anet spend extra resources trying to balance 2 modes. Better yet, what happens when that easy mode isn’t easy enough….are we going to have to make a SUPER EASY/TUTORIAL mode ?

Lets be real about this. Anyone who has put the time and effort into raiding can tell you an easy mode is not needed. People just need the proper tools to be developed to facilitate them getting into the right Guilds for them, into Raids (general), and tools to help them visually discern why they failed and what they can improve on.

Thaddeus.4891:

TexZero.7910:

GW2 already has variable levels of difficulty built in. Dungeons -> Fractals -> Raids.

Why are we trying to gut Raids when the solution for those that want more casual content is pretty clearly already there for them ?

no one is trying to gut raids. Raids should be stay as they are. We are talking about an additionnel difficulty. Tbh i would also love an hard mode, not just an easy mode.

You must not be reading the same thread i am then, where in people are indeed asking for them to gut the raids by adding an easy mode.

Ardid.7203:

TexZero, sorry to say this, but skill level IS a gate. As it is smart organization. And available play time. (And they are perfectly valid, correct and valuable gates. No one should get everything, and better players should get better and unique rewards.)

But you also shouldn’t deny the more general content to people who can’t fulfill those exigences. Everything lore related that happens after the Vale Guardian is, efectively, closed to people that can’t beat the boss because of skill, time or socialization restraints. IMO that IS a mistake.

I’m sorry you feel entitled to every piece of the content. But that’s just your opinion and where you and i are going to have to disagree.

Not all content needs to cater to everyone, and in-fact this game has already shown that it doesn’t. We don’t PvP in the open world do we ? We don’t have unique WvW only adventures right ?

Also, if we are going to build content that’s catered to everyone Anet will eventually have one of the worst play experiences a game could imagine as they would have to design content that is extremely rewarding and yet so easy and accessible that you can literally get away with pretty much afking….sounds familiar (OPEN WORLD). Now imagine a game with nothing but the open world experience, how fast would you get bored. My money is on pretty fast.

Also, not being able to complete something really is only a problem with people who quit. Learn from your mistakes and improve. Complaints about socializing in an MMO is just …. i have no words for this.
I’ve already covered the “time” aspect ad nasuem.

Thaddeus.4891:

TexZero.7910:

Again, as a reminder Raids are by their nature aimed at a different audience and are designed to be hard content. So creating an easy mode is contrary to their very design.

Ok wouldn’t say that Dark Souls is an hardcore game aimed for hardcore players?

I myself believe so. But still, there is design in the game for variable difficulty and adapt the game for the different skills of the players. What you find challenging, someone else can find it trivial and someone else find too hard. And you can see it with GW2 raid. Someone people were hoping that the 2nd wing would be harder than the 1st, while other still can’t complete it.

So why is it valid in Dark Souls and pretty much the majority of all game to have a variable degree of difficulty so that as many people as possible could enjoy the game at the level of difficulty they prefer, but that’s not valid for raids?

GW2 already has variable levels of difficulty built in. Dungeons → Fractals → Raids.

Why are we trying to gut Raids when the solution for those that want more casual content is pretty clearly already there for them ?

They’ve said it’s coming with the next living story update.

So July/Aug. As it was predicted to be at the end of Q3

Ardid.7203:

The purpose of an easy mode is to allow the most people possible the access to content that shouldn’t be exclusive and only available to hardcore players, like story, lore, exploration, and the boss fight itself.

The purpose of a hard mode is to make things truly challenging, and to gate content that should be truly exclusive and only available to a fistfull of really awesome players, like legendary items, skins, achievements and titles.

This would be the case if any of that was in any way actually gated. Which it’s not.
The raid is open to all players, regardless of skill. Whether you succeed at it is ultimately upto the effort you put in.

Again, as a reminder Raids are by their nature aimed at a different audience and are designed to be hard content. So creating an easy mode is contrary to their very design.

PvP reward track. Though that would require you to have completed story mode of SE.

RyanCid.9270:

Again though, all the “walls” exist not just for new players but for everyone.

People who are willing to raid, will overcome those walls

And those who don’t see them worth overcoming considering the time investment?

Using the wall metaphor an easy mode would introduce a foothold on the wall which makes it easier to overcome without reducing the height of the wall.
More casual people would simply climb the foothold first and after clearing half the wall they won’t see it as hard as they though it would be in the beginning.

For what purpose does there need to be an easy mode ?
The encounters themselves are simplistic enough as is. The only “challenge” here is learning the patterns and phases. If you can do that as an individual, you’re more than capable of raiding.

And i’ll state it again, if its about getting “casual” people in the way to do that is not by making it easier. It’s by putting the proper framework for those people to get together in place.

Going only based off what i’ve experienced until i raid again Fri/Sat.

• So far i feel the encounters are really well balanced, and are far more open / make use of more mechanics allowing a greater breadth of skill usage.
• Mechanics are hit and miss – Could be due to some bugs / but as an example Volatile Poison should have a special interact to drop it early once the player is in a position to drop it.
  *Use of stealth/reflects etc. to control mobs/ai was a good change of pace and i am grateful for it. I am glad the Raid team is taking a look at lesser used or forsaken tools in the game.
• More of the Rock / Paper / Scissors that is player skills that can counteract environmental effects. I think this was a neat introduction and could be expanded upon. Think like portals and mirroring domains.
• Two so far, but i think that ultimately comes down to production value, as it feels they had more time to evolve the design of raids which leaves me really hopeful for 3.

RyanCid.9270:

TexZero.7910:

It’s the fact that none of the current encounters need a longer enrage timer. They are all easy enough to complete within the timer so long as you are willing to put in the time and effort.

Let’s not forget Raids are Challenging content, making them easier content is really an affront to their design and intent. Most of the calls for an easy mode (not saying yours) still want equal loot for half the effort, and that’s just not right by any means.

You take things you already possess for granted. Imagine yourself to be a new player (A game will always NEED new players).

You need a raid group which is willing to teach you.
You need raid gear to have enough dps for the timers.
You need to learn the patterns, timings and mechanics. (e.g. 30 minute youtube video that you have to rewatch because you can’t memorize everything)
You need to learn what utility, role and teamwork is required from your class.

This all puts up a huge wall of knowledge which simply scares most casual players off, but it doesn’t need to.
Reduce the loot all you want (there are some who just want to expierence the story content).
Tweak the boss damage that it doesn’t result in a wipe for every single mistake. (Allows for more practice)

Again though, all the “walls” exist not just for new players but for everyone.

People who are willing to raid, will overcome those walls.

Finding a group is problematic, and i agree Anet could do better here. But lets not mix the two topics up. Adding proper group finding tools, isn’t the same as an easy mode nor should they be brought up together.

The “gear” aspect is kinda a joke, this may seem off-base to some of the people claiming to be casual but the raids are entirely able to be completed in exotics which are easy to come by.

Learning the patterns and attacks can be done without watching videos, but again it goes back to the community aspect at the start. They do need better integration tools, LFGuild and an improved LFGtab are a solid starting point.

Before even entering a Raid you should be more than familiar with your class, if you aren’t then chances are you shouldn’t be raiding but instead should be progressing through scaling content Dungeons → Fractals → Raids. Yes the state of dungeons is dismal but it’s a place to learn without the fear of being punished. Fractals are a good spot to learn your limits and how far you can push them. Raids is the practice of your knowledge of the games mechanics and interactions as well as your ability to react and position properly.

I don’t think this is a bad thing, and i really will re-iterate that an easy mode/story mode is pretty much not needed. Even if “time” is your worry its not like the Raids are temporary, so your option to play them is always there.

Additionally the time investment is significantly less than what most people are putting out there. Consider you have a week to full clear the raid, while no single boss encounter takes longer than 15 minutes. Meaning even the most casual player can once they overcome the same burden of knowledge all raiders face complete the entire raid in just shy of an hour pending.

RyanCid.9270:

Rising Dusk.2408:

ANet is devoting more than 98% of its development effort on content and features outside of raids. If players move on to other games knowing that, then that’s their prerogative. ANet knows who their largest audience is, and will be working to support them in the coming months.

I did not come here to argue how ANet is supposed to distribute their resources.
Sorry for straying off the topic.

I stay by my arguments. I don’t see how a slightly longer enrage timer or what Blaeys.3102 mentioned requires any large amount of resources but I’m also not a game developer.

It was a simple Idea and I will leave it at that.

It’s the fact that none of the current encounters need a longer enrage timer. They are all easy enough to complete within the timer so long as you are willing to put in the time and effort.

Let’s not forget Raids are Challenging content, making them easier content is really an affront to their design and intent. Most of the calls for an easy mode (not saying yours) still want equal loot for half the effort, and that’s just not right by any means.

Thaddeus.4891:

That’s a lot of barrier and it’s not honest to toss them aside as they do not exist and do not push a lot of people out of raid. As a raider I want more people to raid because that might mean that instead of 5-6 devs, they could put 10-15 of them. Look the amazing raid 5-6 devs were able to create and now imagine if they could double or triple that numbers.

There is some false equivocation going on here.

Are there “some” barriers ? Yes.
Does removing them help the community ? Debatable and entirely depends on which barriers you remove. Gearing should never be one of them as all you need is exotics to raid. Better community tools like a proper LFG and LFGuild Tools would help move players to the right spots for them.

Does this mean the raid team needs new members ? No.
Does this mean the raid team with more members will produce something grander ? No. There’s a very old adage about “Too many cooks in the kitchen”, this really applies to raids as they have a very direct scope and adding too much people in there actually tends to dilute and slow down the creation process.

Fluffball.8307:

TexZero.7910:

There’s 0 need for an easy mode.

Go in there, take the time and learn the fight. They aren’t that skill intensive, so much so an exercise in pattern recognition and positioning.

Fluffball.8307:

but with a new baby I just don’t have time to get in there and see it. I know a lot of people feel the same way

I’m not going to whine about what anet does either way, but at least address the correct argument if you’re going to argue.

Congrats on the new kid, but that should be more important than any raid.

I know it probably sucks not having time to enjoy stuff, but not everything is for everyone. That doesn’t change that the raids, don’t need an easy mode. They are already super lenient and just require the bear minimum investment of going in and learning the patterns.

If you can commit 20-30 minutes a day, you can raid if you get a group of similar people. You wont full clear the raid in that timeframe, but you will all learn and grow and slowly make progress. This will allow you to do the raid in bitesized pieces that are more suited for your current situation.

There’s 0 need for an easy mode.

Go in there, take the time and learn the fight. They aren’t that skill intensive, so much so an exercise in pattern recognition and positioning.