Guild Wars 2

Rennoko.5731:

Narkodx.1472:

Honestly. VP sucks. It does not reduce any damage you take. It simply slows the NATURAL degen. If you are 900 units away taking no damage/aggro and pumping out Lifeblasts in a powerbuild than its nice. But I do not see how it is necessary or good.. at all. Healing IMO should not be bound to a trait it should be default. It importantly allows ALL necro builds to have SOME sustain.

I don’t know about that… it actually represents a lot of extra survival. If you think about spending 10 seconds in DS doing different things, it really does add up. That 10 seconds is 20% of your LF saved by VP. If you have 25k HP, that is 5000 HP you saved, which is more or less an extra heal.

I still prefer 15% shorter cooldowns

While other classes already have “extra survivability”……….and that extra 5000 (if it hasn’t been pulled from the air) is so assured when you can’t heal in death shroud.

Oh wait you can heal in death shroud….oh dam you need a trait that provides only regen healing while in ds. Oh wait it’s a grand master that requires you to spend 6 points into death magic. Virtually limiting what builds can be created that are maybe viable that need a good amount of healing power otherwise the healing output is crap.

These all don’t look wonderfully great I might add. Throw in the fact that underwater life blast actually is faster than on land, only with small sacrifice to damage. That makes up for it with a condi transfer mechanic. Not to mention it’s totally useless to even think about that if you just pvp, since the only map that it would have been useful on was Capricorn, that has already been removed.

Ok….this seriously doesn’t look good.

Hunter.4783:

That’s the whole problem with the roaming guardian, even though you might be able to beat 6/8 other classes consistently the moment you get 1v2ed you will die with no way of escape.

All these builds are nice and all but none of this solves the core issue, which is our mobility and escape options

Well guards are in the same water as necros with that…. so…… good luck getting that changed in the way you see fit.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

I think you’ve made some strong arguments, Aboulia.7580 and I agree with almost everything there.

I think that simplicity is an important part of esports…. someone with no knowledge of the game (having never played it) needs to be able to view it, interpret the mechanics and enjoy the game without needing to dive into a tome of knowledge and information.

I also agree with the other comments that making sPvP F2P will go a long way towards making it a viable esport. And I think Anet would like to do this… except that they have to report back to NCsoft which would really like their model to be focused on immediate year-to-year profits and not bank on the possibility of being the next big thing.

That and Anet’s inability to produce viable, frequent, and crowd-sourced balancing has really put them behind the game. Unlike games like LoL and Starcraft, Anet has their attention split across many aspects of this game. PvE. WvW and PvP.

In order for sPvP to be an eSport, they would need to abandon the notion of balance in WvW. Balance in PvE and focus their efforts on producing a strong PvP environment…

Which can’t happen. Their model, as it is now, is focused on retaining as much of the player-base as possible for as long as possible to encourage micro-transactions on the black lion trading post.

tl;dr

Anet is most concerned with making all aspects of this game (PvE, WvW, PvP) as happy as possible to retain the playerbase for as long as possible to encourage micro-transactions on the BLTP.

Now…..your just pandering to the average casual player.

DeceiverX.8361:

I still don’t understand.
“No” stability becomes “little” stability.

And that having to build for it becomes an issue.
And that using DS to stay alive while CC’ed is not the same as blowing utilities to stay alive and blow dodges to prevent the damage to prevent dying (rather than just facetanking the damage).
And that signet of the Locust is not a good signet because it’s not worth activating… except this applies to a ton of other signets across every class.
And that necromancer’s weakness is mobility when they have such high access to mobility via a signet like other classes (dependent on a waste of a skill slot like everyone else) or still having access to it via DS through traits.
And that Necros deserve mitigation + stability + tanking options + the ability to run a MM build for DPS and control.

These demands are absolutely outrageous. If you want to frontline in a zerg, you’re going to have to build for it. Otherwise, do what everyone else has to do and avoid the stunlock through dodges and blind applications.

You’re not getting any sympathy from me as on my eight characters, I do not have stability, teleports, blindspam, or durability on any of them, and I do not get chain-CC’ed because I can use my dodges well and simply avoid getting hit through proper positioning.

It’s the fact of only having one real pathway for active defence while every other class has options open to them. Yeah sure these options may not be lengthy in nature, but neither is Death shroud. In the end this post is starting to go off topic from the stability idea.

Trigr.6481:

EverythingEnds.4261:

I rly would like to know, how ANet gathers the opinions of the players who don’t come to the forums.

Lots and lots and lots of metrics. We have a whole team dedicated to crunching numbers and deriving meaning from data.

“I hate to be the negative Nancy here, but are these the same metrics and people who “crunch numbers” that came to the conclusion of the end result of Skyhammer being allowed to stay, and Capricorn being swept under the rug at a moments notice?

Personally, In my humble opinion, I believe that with such a long production time between patches for pvp as we all know, you knew that it would take longer to incorporate the water combat for such a large patch. And you didn’t have the resources to properly test the underwater combat, “not saying you have the proper resources to test any patch to begin with”. But it would take more time, and taking Capricorn out of the equation was a quick and simple small price to pay “budget wise” in order to get things rolling, if ever so slightly faster.

As for skyhammer, well, I personally cannot think of any logical situation as to why it has not been removed. I probably will never believe in your “number crunching” unless I see it for myself. But I’m pretty sure I speak for the entire community when I say that I would rather not play a terrible map, and play a smaller variety of better ones than the former. It comes down to quality not quantity.

Countless"

“We have a whole team dedicated to crunching numbers and deriving meaning from data.”

Where did you find this wonderfully incriminating piece of copy/pasted ineptitude?

Sarcasms ftw……

Marcos.3690:

Ele is only viable now because of the awesome celestial amulet and the broken runes of strenght. If they are nerfed the ele will be back to crap lvl

You don’t need to use runes of strength, virtually still works just a well.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Malakin.2809:

Are there any videos of The Zergmower in action?

I suffer the same problem as pyro with fps, but regardless I went and made some clips anyway. Ive had great engagements, and terrible engagements. These are somewhere in between those spectrums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVF3JkKX4fY

Have to get that fps issue fixed.

KingZmaN.6473:

I wonder, how many more pages of contrived duplicitous rhetoric from my topic antagonists will be manufactured disavowing what I’ve already shared and what I’ve already addressed.

Truly, my topic antagonists verbiage is of totalitarian proportions, and nigh Shakespearean, considering a game founded on diversity spurred the social community with it’s social medium through which my topic antagonists speak.

Bravi. Bravi.

Funny how you always set yourself up for it too….oh well.

Legacy.7360:

Now from my experience, it would seem that they redid the D/D nerfs and made it completely viable.

I’m not only seeing good D/D Ele wrecking havoc but I’m seeing nothing but D/D ele and no other spec.

Problem here? I think the words “Balance” has just been thrown out there to ease our fears.

Thoughts?

#builddiversityoutthedoor #Gaurdiansarefine #CondiWars2

Would you like the ele to be nerf hammered and therefore forced into a kamikaze spec like we all recently witnessed?

Justin ODell.9517:

Just wanted a throw out a shout to Allie. She was just now laying the smack down regarding warriors being an issue.

#allieisourchampion

Yeah sure, wars are the only one true issue in gw2….. /facepalm.

Aboulia.7580:

So I got into a bit of an argument with a few friends of mine regarding what makes a game competitive and what makes a game popular enough to be featured in eSports.

One thing came up repeatedly: Simplicity

And I’m not talking about the overall simplicity of the games, some of them can become quite complex. I’m talking about the game basics and game mechanics are simple.

If we have a look at the current sPvP. We can see that the game can be fun to play for some people, mostly hardcore PvPers, but people going in fresh have an issue with it.
I’ve been there. Everything seems like a clusterf#&k and the way to victory isn’t really clear until 5 or 6 loses later. 1v1s make you think your class is kitten and warriors are OP yada yada yada…

It’s all fine and dandy for the most part, except that some people don’t like to stick around when they’re not actually having fun. They play games to have fun, not for the competition. And out of fun, we can make competition. The biggest games to make it into eSports are the ones that anyone can play and have fun. Same with any other sport. Sure they won’t be Micheal Jordan, but they’ll start to beat they’re friends and keep working on their game and start to dream of bring the next Mike.

When everyone just picking up a game can have a blast, that’s when you’ll have your spot in eSports. They drive the community forward. They try things that some others haven’t done yet and BAM! You got yourself a playerbase and a competitive game with little to no effort.

It doesn’t come from these complex scenarios that only people who studies the game beforehand can become valid contenders. It just scares everyone away. Sure the incentive of the reward track helps some people play that wouldn’t normally. But that’s going about it the wrong way. You don’t want to make people play the game for rewards alone. You want people to enjoy it and get something at the same time.

Now, you might ask ‘Why Aboulia.7580, if you’re such an expert on video games, why don’t you tell us how we should do our jobs?’ but alas I’m out of my specialty for that. I don’t know, to be honest.

The game direction of no healers has put a damper on any big scale deathmatches for some obvious reasons (clusterf&#ks, clusterf%@ks everywhere). Which is a shame because deathmatches is the most simple game type a PvP game can have. So you would have to either turn to smaller scaled deathmatches or some kind of other type of mode that anyone can pick up but still have their mistakes punished. The matches has to have an evident goal and the outcome can be changed from one big team play. Games that gets decided in the first 5 minutes are both boring to play, and boring to watch. Unexpected plays is another attraction to any sport, as well as team play.

As a plus to a new pvp mode. Have a nooby bracket just for kittens and giggles and only for people with 20 games or fewer. Have a free for all mode where everyone just kills each other in a big pit. Have some modes close to what the big ranked play is, while making it just for funzies.

There’s no need for the big scale complex matches. The community will do that for you. And they will thank you for it.

Thank you for reading.

You know what could allow gw2 to get into the esport picture. Actual, realistic, truly next gen version of guild vs guild. If anet though did go with this idea but dumbed it down or took it a step back like they did with conquest then….gg to gw2.

coglin.1867:

Bhawb.7408:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Yeah, for as much as you guys have started stressing that this issue needs to be balanced based on group dynamics, why does the Hambow trumps me become relevant at all?

As I have seen in 7 different post, players suggesting they get bounced around like a ping pong ball, then why is their group guardians/warriors not helping you with that? Why do we need to redesign caster skills because your heavies are playing poorly?

Because not a single other class relies 100% on the rest of their team doing their job to not be useless.

Neither does the necromancer. Necromancers have the job of spreading conditions, doing damage, and very importantly stripping boons. As well as CC with fear.

I am sorry, but I fail to see how your ability to do that, relies on your team. On my necromancer, I am not 100% replying on my team to do my job. I do appreciate the support we give each other.

My main job is to use intelligent placement of my wells to strip boon of my foe and turn them into conditions, while turning my allies conditions into boons. My secondary job is to use my cripples and blinds and immobilize to aid in control of the flow of battle.

I do not need more of my own stability to do this.

Engi does a better job of spreading conditions than a necro. As for boon stripping you have mesmers, sigil and thief. For team support you have eles, engis, guards, wars and rangers(if you can call it that). Could go into a scenario of how you could be low on life force and needing your team to save your kitten when enemy team focuses on you. Where no other class would need it for having simply an “oh kitten” button on demand, but that would be pointless.

We could continue with this pathetic display of you trying to flaunt something but in the end, it’s meaningless. The best option for this new ele player is to use a d/d celestial amulet ele with either dolyak or strength runes with sigil of battle and energy sigil. A 0/2/0/6/6 spec should do it for him to start off with. You can also use a staff with this setup too. If you need traits…that can be answered.

Chaos.3579:

The Primary.6371:

Chaos.3579:

selan.8354:

almost everything we have is single target. so yeah chaos storm is good but id like to have more aoe, so making ms a strong multitarget aoe would be great. if it was a stronger aoe i wouldnt mind it not being able to be cast on the move, but right now ms being stale and weak at the same time is not ideal. i do like the rest of our gs though. its one of my favorite weapons.
also chaos armor.. unnerf please. the nerf is ridiculous and made chaos armor kinda useless. but i agree a blastfinisher would be nice too.

I actually don’t like the idea of mesmer having much “controllable aoe”.
I love the fact that we are very single target with a little aoe that is somewhat hard to control (phantasms,shatters)

The issue however is that our very single target skills…..are meh. And this in combination with bugs that takes anet months to fix even though they broke it in the first place (warden). is unacceptable and hurts.

I love how mind stab works and feels. but it lacks power. It lacks a use that is a wow factor.
Now a damage buff would be great. Although I don’t feel that is what it needs.
And if it does get a damage buff I should hope it gets a dynamic damage buff. Aka how many boons the target has/ does not have gives increased damage< something like that.

Ok let’s get down what this skill absolutely needs.

1) a blast finisher……. DUH anet come on!
2) a better effect then just 1 measly boon in a crappy boon rip priority order

And let’s look at some options or combinations of options that anet can do to improve this skill including the above 2 requirements.

• improved boon rip priority order

• increased number of boons ripped

• make it steal the boon ripped

• make it currupt the boon removed (fear on stability rip….so many other possible use’s http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupt_Boon )

• dynamic increased damage based on a factor such as number of boons on you or foe or both ect. (Tons of options to make this skill go from meh to WOW based on the situation.)
  (In my personal opinion the damage should increase by 10% per boon on the target. When fighting with gs we have a lot of trouble fighting tanky targets with tons of boons.
  Ele’s, guardians, thiefs with consume ecto, and specific boon bountiful builds on all of the other class’s comes to mind)
  Base damage with full zerker is like 500-1k. 1k-2k on crit. So I cant help but wonder what would happen if we got a 100%-150% damage ish increase resulting in something around 4k against a target with 10 or so boons. Would really change the feeling of weekness we have against those boon spammers.

And if my idea of corrupting the boon removed were to come through?
Watch as those that charge at us with stability run away in fear!!!!

Well you can be one of the few to say that, rest agree that mesmers do need more aoe along with rangers to be even more viable for zvz in wvw.

read my other post.
anyway the basic thing is this.
mesmer is perfectly fine in all other areas in the game. small group large group ect. however when it comes down to 20+ zerging cluster ****’s….well…..we are not able to dps because our damage comes from something that is instantly destroyed in that situation. while if zerging was fixed and more spread out. we would be fine.

Read your other post….why bother when wvw will always remain a zergfest. Which makes your notion for keeping the mesmer as a small scale combat class irrelevant.

Chaos.3579:

selan.8354:

almost everything we have is single target. so yeah chaos storm is good but id like to have more aoe, so making ms a strong multitarget aoe would be great. if it was a stronger aoe i wouldnt mind it not being able to be cast on the move, but right now ms being stale and weak at the same time is not ideal. i do like the rest of our gs though. its one of my favorite weapons.
also chaos armor.. unnerf please. the nerf is ridiculous and made chaos armor kinda useless. but i agree a blastfinisher would be nice too.

I actually don’t like the idea of mesmer having much “controllable aoe”.
I love the fact that we are very single target with a little aoe that is somewhat hard to control (phantasms,shatters)

The issue however is that our very single target skills…..are meh. And this in combination with bugs that takes anet months to fix even though they broke it in the first place (warden). is unacceptable and hurts.

I love how mind stab works and feels. but it lacks power. It lacks a use that is a wow factor.
Now a damage buff would be great. Although I don’t feel that is what it needs.
And if it does get a damage buff I should hope it gets a dynamic damage buff. Aka how many boons the target has/ does not have gives increased damage< something like that.

Ok let’s get down what this skill absolutely needs.

1) a blast finisher……. DUH anet come on!
2) a better effect then just 1 measly boon in a crappy boon rip priority order

And let’s look at some options or combinations of options that anet can do to improve this skill including the above 2 requirements.

• improved boon rip priority order

• increased number of boons ripped

• make it steal the boon ripped

• make it currupt the boon removed (fear on stability rip….so many other possible use’s http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupt_Boon )

• dynamic increased damage based on a factor such as number of boons on you or foe or both ect. (Tons of options to make this skill go from meh to WOW based on the situation.)
  (In my personal opinion the damage should increase by 10% per boon on the target. When fighting with gs we have a lot of trouble fighting tanky targets with tons of boons.
  Ele’s, guardians, thiefs with consume ecto, and specific boon bountiful builds on all of the other class’s comes to mind)
  Base damage with full zerker is like 500-1k. 1k-2k on crit. So I cant help but wonder what would happen if we got a 100%-150% damage ish increase resulting in something around 4k against a target with 10 or so boons. Would really change the feeling of weekness we have against those boon spammers.

And if my idea of corrupting the boon removed were to come through?
Watch as those that charge at us with stability run away in fear!!!!

Well you can be one of the few to say that, rest agree that mesmers do need more aoe along with rangers to be even more viable for zvz in wvw.

nearlight.3064:

The Primary.6371:

nearlight.3064:

Ele certainly is viable on tournament teams, and more so now than ever because the recent patch reverted some of the old nerfs that make the 0/0/2/6/6 build so great, and also buffed celestial so eles can also actually DPS things while being difficult to kill. Combo fields aren’t as important for D/D as PBAoE is, thats more of a staff thing and it seems that staff is still a horrible choice outside of zerg gameplay in wvw.

As for the other classes, mesmer is only viable for tpvp at really high skill levels with lots of coordination with portal and whatnot. The PU builds are lower skill and easier to learn but less effective for the real deal from what I know. Engineers seem to make good bunkers and S/D trickery theives seem to be really important in pvp right now, but thats beyond what I really know.

So if combo fields aren’t important to you as a D/D. How do you increase your over all power and condition damage with celestial amulet outside of general fire field might stacking?

Read what I said. They’re not AS important as they would be in a staff or S/D build but that doesn’t mean I don’t think they’re important at all, and I find that a battle sigil works fine to keep the might up. And for general D/D taking persisting flames means a lot less survivability, especially from conditions. Staff builds use more than just fire fields, they use blast water fields for healing, and their ice field for frost aura and the static field in zergplay for swiftness.

So basically when I run D/D, if I can blast the ring of fire field once or twice, thats a great thing to do, but I certainly don’t rely or depend on it.

They are “AS” important as you will not have enough dps with your direct damage or condition damage. Plus a good d/d ele stacking might to the “team” can increase over all damage, this obviously occurs while multitasking.

Bhawb.7408:

They all have very easy access to ways to get out of CC though, which is the entire point. What happens if a thief gets CCed? They use one of 8 different ways they have to either fully break it or at least create huge distance. They can also go into stealth if creating distance isn’t enough, or spam evade frames/dodges (this defined the pre-nerf S/D thief).

Mesmers also have stealth, ways to create large distances between them and enemies, access to invuln, and vigor.

Engineers are literally what a team takes if babysitting a Necro is too much work. They are the weaker DPS but un-focusable version of Necro. They get blocks, stunbreaks, ways to pick themselves off the ground, etc.

So no, you didn’t list anything special. You listed three classes all of whom have vastly better options to get out of and avoid subsequent CC than us.

Don’t forget to mention people, when a necro starts to get condi trained while in DS. They are left vulnerable in the end if say they are low on hp or the enemy team is literally waiting for the necro to get out of DS to heal. So necro do need direct access to stability and also some form of condition removal while in death shroud.

Mystogan.4157:

Ive been switching from wurm runes with sigil of force and frailty to str runes with battle and str sigils

Wurm: 19k hp hits around 2-3k autos

Str : 17k hp hits around 2-3k for about 8 secs until might stacks then it hits around 3-4k i want other runes to be viable so bad im just so blinded by str right now. Any suggestions?? I love my wurm cause the hp and crit would switching to might sigils with wurm be better then force? Or matbe battle and force together?

Strengths runes will be nerfed considering how every class in gw2 is abusing them in some way, shape or form.

In other words, anet don’t want you to have +7% damage increase with 25 might stacks for a long duration.

MercilessLemurs.7459:

They are tanky while performing activities. Life siphon, deaths shroud etc.

Ironic how many people troll a thread that tries to be serious and address issues within this game that will be marginally left behind in the ever coming future. In any event lets take a look at what this statement is saying. They are tanky and preform activities while stunned to hell…..oh well moving on.

Vast majority of people who are experienced with necros would agree that they do need a more direct means of stability activation to allow them some measure of control when required. Since anet are some what bent on a form of class description (when in reality their current class descriptions are thrown out the window), they won’t even try to provide any increase to mobility at all.

nearlight.3064:

Ele certainly is viable on tournament teams, and more so now than ever because the recent patch reverted some of the old nerfs that make the 0/0/2/6/6 build so great, and also buffed celestial so eles can also actually DPS things while being difficult to kill. Combo fields aren’t as important for D/D as PBAoE is, thats more of a staff thing and it seems that staff is still a horrible choice outside of zerg gameplay in wvw.

As for the other classes, mesmer is only viable for tpvp at really high skill levels with lots of coordination with portal and whatnot. The PU builds are lower skill and easier to learn but less effective for the real deal from what I know. Engineers seem to make good bunkers and S/D trickery theives seem to be really important in pvp right now, but thats beyond what I really know.

So if combo fields aren’t important to you as a D/D. How do you increase your over all power and condition damage with celestial amulet outside of general fire field might stacking?

renss.5764:

As a thief stealth player and a d/d elementalist i have to say this is so true
when running the perma prot spec u can barely be harmed, there are too many random aoe attacks going on that hurt the thief alot. I have had so much trouble killing d/d eles on my thief in wvw duels but the other way around, it was easy.

Would you prefer the ele nerf hammered again, virtually making all your hard work count for nothing in the end?

Lurock Turoth.9085:

Honestly Thief shouldn’t have much trouble with a DD ele IF (and that can be a big if) they can get out of the first combo.

With the DD ele build I use if you don’t stun break my first knockdown you will be dead in about 3 seconds. Watch out for Ride the Lightning 2k-4k > Updraft > Burning Speed2 2k-4k > Flame Grab 7k-14k. If you make them blow Flame Grab your chances go up dramatically once that rotation is over the eles dps ability drops pretty dramatically. The only other thing to really watch for is Lightning Flash 2k-4k > Churning Earth 7k-16k.

This is the build I roll with.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoYhUMac25wyBf0AEAC5qHjGMQBhlmA-T1CBwA10BowEEWlYAOBAeVagT9nsKDSpFgiSQk7Pw4BAQKgRVGB-w

You have much to learn, eles these days who stuck around since beta don’t need a cc anymore to initiate.

Karl McLain.5604:

Some great ideas here guys! This skill is something we’ve been looking at, as it’s a little underwhelming at times.

Here’s a bunch of potential things we could do (we would do one or maybe two of these, not all:

1. Look at making it usable on the move. Currently, the animation is ONLY able to be used while standing still.
2. Increase the number of boons removed.
3. Increase the radius.
4. Make this a channeled skill that pulses AOE damage and boon removal while you hold the sword in the ground.
5. Multi-stab! You choose multiple ground targets and stab all of them simultaneously (or one-after the other). We don’t have tech for this yet… but it’s a possibility!
6. ???
7. Profit!

Tagging this thread for later.

I would like an AOE impale for 3 secs with them bleeding tremendously, rather than a multi stab tool but….that’s just my sadistic side typing here.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

yolo swaggins.2570:

• Sir Vincent III (Very Experienced, Has additional experience with unorthodox builds, High Morale for thief community)

wish and Interceptors are better for that group than me…and Jumper if he’s around.

Ironic how people who broadcast specs to the public on gw2 forums naturally have them nerf hammered later on when they become too popular in high to low level play.

But in any event, this patch has not really given much to be desired for thieves. All the new grand masters are virtually pathetic, poorly placed or are not even deserving of being grandmaster traits. Not seeing any build diversity for thieves in spvp or pve.

Might want to try using plague elite for that extra bit of point tanking. Can also try sigil of life to get more healing from your various sources of restoration. Since you can kill with this spec to get a few stacks, say ten or five help with the DS hp regen. You can also use Spectral Grasp instead of the well, good interrupt that pulls target chills and gives +15% LF. The utility is also great in skyhammer for obvious reasons.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

So we might aswell start collecting builds, tryouts etc so we can determine what meta we are going for.

I’ll be back tonight (my b-day today) and see what i can come up with after listening to people who know their stuff ^^.

SO.. place your build suggestions/idea’s here. (so i can find em and abuse them later on)

Let’s hope they patch http://intothemists.com/calc/ this soon

Good way to let management+ dev team know what to nerf…….please continue.

I Goof Em.6873:

I’ve been having a lot of fun in courtyard so far, and wanted to give some feedback on what’s working and what’s not for team deathmatch.

Foremost, finally, the satisfaction of deathmatch. Deathmatch is a true test of a player’s skill, and by that i mean it reflects his/her knowledge of game mechanics. The objective is simple and clear: defeat your opponent, not cheese your way to victory by abusing meta objectives. With that being said, matches feel much more satisfying than conquest. Also, players can actually stick together, rather than being split up to capture different points. Deathmatch is much more conducive for comraderie.

As of now, i feel like 8v8+ is too much for deathmatch. The appeal of spvp deathmatch, is to have a venue where pvpers can use a wide variety of builds, and show off their skill in doing so. WvW, as we know too well, pigeonholes people into certain builds, and zerging. Indeed most large scale battles, are simply roll with your group, and mash 1. I can tell you why it became that way, largely due to lack of collision detection, and the unique feature of melee attacks cleaving., but that’s another topic.

Thus we want deathmatch to be at a robust scale, and i can tell you 8v8 and 10v10 is not. I love to melee, i’ve played thief and warrior since release, but so far in deathmatch, i’ve mostly been engineer, lobbing grenades afar for massive aoe damage. It feels alot like WvW most of the time. Of course having the scale too small, is not optimized either. We want a team build that is robust as well. I’m thinking 5v5 is a good place to start, in seeking the perfect medium.

The actual map seems to be well made. Aesthetically it’s gorgeous, (as always from Anet’s artists), and the size seems decent enough as well. The changes of elevation and barriers were also well done. An ideal map should provide enough cover for guerilla tactics, but not so much that it constantly interferes with the fight. Skyhammer is a perfect example of a poorly done map for competitive play, where combat is frequently interrupted by all too easily abused map mechanics. Players should know, or learn, how to use terrain and positioning to their advantage, but not so much that this trumps core mechanics of the game.

Also regarding map, i haven’t been on my thief much, but there seems to be some spots that are abuseable with teleport effects. I know of the imbalance problems of such, all too well, when i used to abuse infiltrator’s strike in obsidium sanctum back in the day. All i can say is be on the lookout for unintended spots to teleport in and out of. Usually they are on raised platforms, like bridges or scaffolding. The bridge in the south portion of the map is one of them.

You would have liked true gvg much more. Too bad anet never decided to even try to implement a gvg game mode in gw2.

Carpboy.7145:

I made my necro 12 hours ago and set him up with a 4/0/6/4/0 MM build and am already 40% done with champ phantom title. I’ve never made a necro before. Take from that what you will

Really shows that champ titles are earned the correct way eh.

daros.3407:

RaZaC.1963:

There are two ways to get into the red teams base on Spirit Watch. One is where you use the glitched wall behind the blue spawn and you go out of the map. Also I’ve seen a thief get into the base by just using skills. Since its not game breaking I would not worry to much about it.

Thanks for reply. Ok if it is only one map and one base then it truly isn’t game breaking. But anyway it should be eventualy repaired.

Actually it can be done on a couple of maps.

sminkiottone.6972:

nekretaal.6485:

Gw2 needs hall of heroes.

Also GvG !

Hall of heroes….pfff, everyone knows gvg took more skill to play. No gimmicky team builds in gvg too if you think about it.

kylwilson.9137:

I remember the time I thought doing away with dedicated healers was a fantastic idea.

How effing stupid I was.

Gw2 gvg can still work without dedicated healers, all you need is strong team support mixed into two or three players setup. Will also require everyone watching each other and the enemy aswell, which should always happen.

jihm.2315:

you ll be back…

Are you sure?

silvermember.8941:

Anybody with a brain can see guild wars 1 had more PvP stuff, considering that it was in fact a PvP based game initially until they decided to slap from PvE which was meant as a tutorial for PvP. Ironically, the PvE became the show.

The question is, why does it matter at this stage? Are you saying this because of what?(I question the purpose of this topic, is it to state the obvious or what?)

The Primary.6371:

butch.8136:

The Primary.6371:

But the main sucker punch was the one pvp mode since launch and pathetic pve content. Funny how it takes 2+ months for any serious update to the game. Other companies usually take less time to implement a patch than anet does with gw2.

The main sucker punch was the hype behind it, imo. If they didn’t hype it that much, then there would’ve been less rage. But then again, gw1 was very popular pvp-wise so most people expected no less of gw2.

Exactly, it did not live up to expectations with one crappy pvp mode based off a pvx mode from gw1.

From a business stand point, it made literally zero sense for Anet to focus on PvP considering that even in guild wars 1, the PvE was the thing that was generating money. Guild wars 1 might have started out as a PvP game, but it certainly ended up as a PvE game.

Argue your “business standpoint” to anet who wanted to utilize gw2 pvp as an esport. Be sure to be very detailed on how they should, would or could make the game more profitable for nsoft.

butch.8136:

The Primary.6371:

But the main sucker punch was the one pvp mode since launch and pathetic pve content. Funny how it takes 2+ months for any serious update to the game. Other companies usually take less time to implement a patch than anet does with gw2.

The main sucker punch was the hype behind it, imo. If they didn’t hype it that much, then there would’ve been less rage. But then again, gw1 was very popular pvp-wise so most people expected no less of gw2.

Exactly, it did not live up to expectations with one crappy pvp mode based off a pvx mode from gw1.

Me Games Ma.8426:

I got the Idea from the thread about the new elites.

Like the topic sais this thread is meant to gather Guild Wars 1 skills of the mesmer and transfere them to Guild Wars 2.
In guild wars 1 we’ve had over 140 skills and there are some that are good ideas and could be used and implemented in this game too.

Here’s a List with all the old mesmer skills from gw1.

An example was posted by me a few month ago:

Me Games Ma.8426:

Wastrel’s Demise:

• a skill that deals heavy aoe damage and does even more when the enemy is NOT using a skill
• Range: 900
• +10% dmg when enemy is not using a skill
• Cooldown 12s
• Activation 1s

Calculated Risk: (My favorite)

• a skill that does medium dmg and grants might to your enemy but also causes cripple, weakness and blind. also creates a clone on hit that uses autoattack
• Range 900
• Cooldown 20s
• Activation (press and hold) 0.25-1.25s (5 steps 0.25 | 0.5 | 0.75 | 1 | 1.25)
• 1-5 stacks might for 15s for your enemy
• 2-10s weakness
• 1-5s cripple
• 1-5s blind

Aneurysm:

• a skill that does more dmg when the enemy has low energy
• Cooldown 15s
• Activation: 0.75s
• Range 900
• +5% dmg when the target has 50-99% energy
• +10% dmg when the target has 0-50% energy

Overload:

• a skill that deals heavy dmg and dazes the enemy. if the enemy is channeling a skill you stun instead of dazing
• Cooldown 20s
• Activation 0.25s
• Range 900
• 1s daze
• 2s stun

Shrinking Armor:

• a skill that causes bleed and vulnerability to your enemies, also creates a clone whose attacks cause bleed and vulnerability (one stack each for 5s)
• Cooldown 25s
• Activation 3/4s
• Range 900
• 3 stacks bleed for 10s
• 8 stacks of vulnerability for 10s

Cry of Pain

• new skill catecory “Cry”
• a skill that causes an AoE-Circle around all your active illusions that damages and torments enemys.
• 1 stack torment for 6s
• ~dmg as “cry of frustration”
• 1s cast
• 40s cooldown
• not a shatter

Tease

• new skill category “Cry”
• your target is stunned for each active illusion
• 1 illusion 1s stun
• 2 illusions 1.5s stun
• 3 illusions 2s stun
• 0.25s cast
• 35s cooldown

Energy Surge

• new skill category “Cry”
• creates a circle of weakness around your enemy that is stronger the more illusions you have
• 1 illusion: (radius 120)
  3s weakness (circle duration 3s)
• 2 illusions: (radius 180)
  3s weakness, 2s cripple (circle duration 3s)
• 3 illusions: (radius 240)
  3s weakness, 3s cripple, -15% endurance per tick (circle duration 2s)
• 1s cast
• 60s cooldown

Don’t forget “Vision of regret, Backfire, Empathy, Diversion, Blackout, Psychic Instability, Illusion of Pain, Crippling Anguish, Energy Surge, Fevered Dreams, Guilt, Illusionary Weaponry, Migraine, Panic, Shared Burden, Web of Disruption, Shatter Delusions and many more”

Pyroathiest.4168:

Carpboy.7145:

PU is completely useless in yolo queue and tpvp because stealth decaps points. So have fun in 8v8 zergs

Not accurate. Properly played PU builds can be extremely strong in solo queue. See the guide in my signature for more details.

Many people in general don’t know how to use stealth correctly in yolo que or team que. Most stick to the old ideals and then get fixated on when it was finally shattered.

Ironic how we gw1 players got shafted with hall of monument rewards within gw2. All cosmetic and with minimal effort put into each pet, weapon and armor design.

But the main sucker punch was the one pvp mode since launch and pathetic pve content. Funny how it takes 2+ months for any serious update to the game. Other companies usually take less time to implement a patch than anet does with gw2.

ghaleon.2861:

GW1 PvP was superior in everyway than GW2, and GW2 players that never played on the high GW1 lvl don’t even have a clue how awesome GW1 Pvp was. But Anet decided they want to beat Wow and attract the Pver that plague this world. And brought Allince Battles into GW2, worse game mode ever and the most boring kitten ever. In gw1 GvG you could always make big plays spliting, out smarting your opponent and it was like a chest game. But now we’re stuck with this kitten game mode. And it doesn’t surprise me at all that Gw2 PvP is dead already. I mean it took GW1 PvPv8 years to die out and because Anet went on to create AB wars 2. And Gw2 PvP died in 1 year

Anet for some reason doesn’t want gvg to have another chance at being an esport. They don’t even want to try and improve on the concept or surpass it. All they so far have done is down play it or thrown disgust at it. Makes you wonder why present anet employees hate gvg that much.

Yes I do agree as it wasn’t much, but the funny aspect about the subject is that it was all we had left since they decided to take away necklaces and ear rings. Come April 15th, we will have more limitations in attribute flexibility within our builds. Yet we don’t have this issue in pve, until anet decide they need to take away customizability in that area as well.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Greetings,

It is my perception many members of the community believe PvP balancing occurs far too infrequently. This is one factor contributing to an unhealthy PvP community. It is clear ANet is talent-constrained to the point where they are incapable of pushing quality balance changes in a timely fashion.

I propose that ANet place the tools in the players’ hands to change the game balance. The way this could be done is via custom arenas (CAs).

How would this work?

CAs would be modified with new screens containing all the knobs to adjust weapon and spell coefficients and durations for all professions. Modifying a default parameter would, by default, turn off progression on the server. This would avoid “hotjoin heroism”. An icon could be added to each CA that would allow people to view the MOTD text of the CA as well as the list of spell coefficients. Modified parameters could be highlighted via some color.

What would this do?

Primarily, this could effectively result in achieving PvP balance via crowdsourcing. Various players could try tweaking different parameters and seeing how the game changes. Groups such as ESL could gather together top players and create a proposed “balance template” they could use for tournaments. Such an effort could result in a ‘defacto standard’ for tPvP gameplay.

Secondarily, we could see more ‘fun’ servers where some parameters are set to nonsensical values that result in silly, but, fun, games. If some of you remember Team Fortress crowbar servers, you can get the idea of the kind of things that could evolve.

How Would ANet Benefit?

Simply put: More players for less work. Better balance would most likely result in more people playing the game. Additionally ‘fun’ variants could result in more people playing the game. Since many hard-core players really enjoy theorycrafting, this could get many players very excited and invested in trying to make the PvP balance better.
In terms of balancing, this simplifies the job for ANet. They can use the “balance specs” that are most frequently used and/or being used in tournaments and incorporate all, or parts of, that spec into the default builds. It would simplify and expedite the balancing process. This could literally result in balance updates coming out every 2 weeks. I think we could very quickly converge upon a balanced solution.

Potential Issues

Mechanics. It may not be feasible with the current game engine to override coefficients and durations in a CA. It would depend on if/how these parameters are loaded/accessed from data stores, or hard-coded.
Build schisming could be a very real issue, where two “leading” groups evolve with very different balance specs and refuse to compromise or kowtow. This could be detrimental to the community. It would be incumbent upon ArenaNet to provide feedback and guidance periodically to minimize this.

Should get a bonus too… I mean it can’t all be free from our end.

PhDusk.2590:

Hai everyone!

With the ready up today we found that lyssa has been nerfed to removing up to 5 condis on a 45 sec cool down.

In tpvp I regularly have more than 5 condis on me if I get into a bad spot. So with that in mind, what do yall think will be the best way to remove condis while still running shatter? I am a little worried seeing as perplexity is being added, along with alot of other skills being tacked on with condis.

Any Thoughts?

Mantra of resolve and using torch 4 to stealth and then recast mantra after usage once CD is up. If only null field and arcane thievery were practical for a second or third option then I would advise but….nope.

Justin ODell.9517:

I can’t speak for the designers, but I see this change (and the runes change) as one with the goal of streamline builds. Removing unneeded complexity benefits the game by making it easier for new players to pickup, while also making it easier balance the game as a whole.

Sure more options mean more possible builds, and more ability to tailor to your exact play style, but it doesn’t necessarily mean better builds or a better game.

I know at first, when doing the mental math, it felt like a bit of a contradiction to add more complexity in one area (traits) while removing it from another (amulets). Again, not presuming to speak for the designers, but I think it makes sense when you consider the impact each area has. Amulets are raw stats so they have a much bigger impact on balance because they affect everything. Why wouldn’t they want to lock down the most highly variable aspect of balance? Having greater impact means the cost of complexity grows exponentially.

At the same time, I could see the change also giving the designers more flexibility to do even more with amulets because math. 10 amulets with 10 jewels is 100 possible combinations, right? Now they only have to worry about just 12 amulets… which means they have 88 more amulets to go before they reach the same level complexity.

I know some people will think the difference between ‘streamlining’ and ‘dumbing down’ is only semantic, but I think intent is very important when trying to project where the game is heading in the future. This is part of the reason I’m very optimistic about where we’re going, and I think you should be too.

What are your arguments for the fine-tuning approach that jewels give? What exactly did it open up? What is now going to disappear? I’m genuinely interested in both sides of this one.

Jewels provided what little customizability (apart from runes) that existed for builds within pvp. Then you have pve which provides an abundance of customizability through armour pieces, jewellery, jewels, runes and sigils. If the next step is to limit attribute flexibility within pve, I can only see negativity coming from the end result.

In the end, the mostly QoL patch that will occur this 15th of April won’t fix the issue that exists with the current living story idea and lack of a true, competitive, esport based game mode. Many are already planning to leave for ESO or wilderstar. That is only two mmos that are nearing release.

Makes you wonder how gw2 will compete with that or how gw2 will be able to retain most of the players planning to leave that haven’t left already.

Thedenofsin.7340:

You are now very sleepy. Very sleepy.

You are now asleep.

Now listen to me as I speak the following words in the voice of Morgan Freeman:

You will no longer main a Warrior. In fact, you will delete your warrior on the live servers now.
You will main a Mesmer.
You will suffer as a Mesmer does.
Mesmers need some fixes before this patch goes live.

Now, repeat these words above.

Very good.

Now count back from 10 slowly. When you awake, you will feel refreshed and full of purpose.
10..9..8..7…

The force is weak with this one.

Vaebrae.2345:

I call it the Fanatic
Heavy Armor class with a mechanic akin to elementalist attunements
Medium sized health pool
Main hand weapons:
Sword
Axe
Hammer
Greatsword
Torch
Staff
Offhand Weapons:
Dagger
Shield
Pistol
Focus
Possibly new weapon sets like (Polearms and battleaxes [wink wink])
(btw, bcuz of the alignments, there is no weapon switching)
NEW MECHANIC***
This class has two “alignments”, light and dark, one is a dedicated healer/ minor buffing and crit damage, the other is CC and a bit of stealth and condition dmg.
The class has a 5 minute timer, counting down every 5 minutes to 0:00, and when it hits 0 the character switches alignments. Also, in case you felt like switching yourself before the timer hits zero, the F1 skill, named Ascension/Descent, switches you willingly and has a 30s cooldown, but has 2 charges, meaning it can only be used twice every 5 minutes (the charges being replaced at the end of every countdown).
The F2 skill is call Bestow/Corrupt, bestowing a certain number of boons to 5 allies around you from a list of boons at random, and corrupting the enemies in the same area with a list of conditions to 5 enemies from a certain list of conditions, also with a 30s cooldown.
Skills and traits***
I’ve only been working on this in my spare time so i’ve actually only created about 3 skills, 1 heal and 2 elites (one of the elites used to be a heal as well, but a few guildies pointed out that it didn’t work exactly the way a heal was supposed to, so i changed it up a bit and made it an elite skill.
Heal Skill: Citadel’s Protection/ Retributive Renewal
1. Mid Level Heal + Might & Fury (4s)
2. Mid Level Heal + 30% Condi dmg (4s) + Stealth (2s)
Elite Skills
Angelic Fury/Demonic Possession
1. Allies in AOE area (ground targeted) will gain “Angelic Fury” buff, showing glowing ethereal wings on the back of the character, providing Protection, Regeneration, Might, Fury, and Quickness for 10s.
2. Enemies in AOE area (ground targeted) will gain a condition called “Demonic Possession”, making their movement controls and skills reversed (WASD is reversed, forward is back, back is forward, left and right ect., and movement skills like Whirling Attack on Warrior Greatsword, will send you in the exact opposite direction) and your attacks have a 50% chance to deal 100% weapon and skill damage to allies instead of enemies for 10s.
Martyrdom/Sacrificial Punishment
1. 3/4s cast time, you begin taking all damage that is hitting an AOE area around your character while allies in that area are invulnerable, and when your health hits 0% and you go down, allies in the AOE area get burst healed of 150% of the damage you took.
2. All damage done to you and allies in your immediate AOE area is dealt 1/1 to any enemies in an AOE area of ground targeting you place down.
Side note: definitely not completed, but constructive criticism and ideas and thoughts would be awesome, this is a guild project for us and i have been getting help from them but ideas always help, so tell me what you think ^.^

I would rather take a medium armoured “Dervish” over another heavy armoured class. All anet would need to do is modernise them, remove the dresses for male characters and adapt them to guild wars 2 concepts.

kaikalii.4198:

Aren’t eles generally more concerned with thieves than warriors? Thief is the only profession that really hard-counters them. Against a warrior, I just chill (the condition, not the relaxation) and dance around them. It’s amazing what walking through someone as thew are coming at you will do. Also, glyph of elemental power + air attunement is your friend against melee. I agree, eles are probably the most difficult class to play, mainly because they rely on much more active damage mitigation. Warriors and Guardians have armor and boons, thieves have stealth and evades, Mesmers have clones, Engis have cc, Necros have DS, and rangers…dont know ‘cuz I don’t play them. Eles have to be just as active defensively as offensively. I generally rely on focus for this, as projectile destruction, projectile reflection, Obsidian Flesh, and Gale are all excellent defensive skills. Once you get good at the more defensive focus, you can probably move on the the more offensive OH dagger.

Just have to use the right spec and learn how to counter them. The 10/30/0/0/30 thief specs are very squishy, but the counters are mostly learned by having played a thief.

Thedenofsin.7340:

It’s Rift PVP all over again.

Are there any developers reading this?

This exact same issue creeped up in Rift about 16-20 months ago. Players would quit warfronts because they were losing, which resulted in a more lopsided finish.

The solution was to implement the “Deserter” debuff – that’s exactly what this “Dishonorable” debuff was.

However, there was a problem – matches where you had PuG vs Pre-made. Those games were an absolute slaughter, in favor of the pre-made team naturally, and they’d effectively farm the PuG team.

It was not fun and made the overall experience much less enjoyable. People quit.

Eventually Trion fixed this by implementing queue systems that prevented this kind of match up…. which eventually killed pre-made teams due to a lack of competition.

The moral of the story is this: When you implement this feature, please use sound judgement. Don’t punish players who want to leave a PuG v Premade game in the same manner you would punish players who leave more appropriately matched teams.

Guild wars 1 had a /resign command. Everyone in the team would type it, thus allowing the team to forfeit the match and leave the session without incurring the debuff or death count. For some reason it does not exist in gw2, even though it’s easy enough to implement.

XGhoul.7426:

Just wait for next week, with the (sorry for dev bash) vague comments on upcoming pvp features on stream. Personal bias goes here: if the devs actually talked about upcoming changes [i.e not leaving broken skills for 1-3 months with no change] actually tell the playerbase on feedback (fake patch notes got enough responses to be so secretive) there are still some players left to give honest feedback on changes that will/won’t make it on the “feature patch” at least get some community opinions instead of getting bashed on forums over and over. People want to help this game get good but lack of public test server among other things leaves very few players to keep playing this game, with 2 more sub based games coming out in march.

Well idk if anet + nsoft have that time for us to help them to perfect the game. They should have created this initiative just after game release.

Daishi.6027:

The Primary.6371:

Sure you can dodge it but for many humans, they just don’t have the reflexes to escape it or the perception to watch out for it.

Sounds like a personal problem. I have not met many people who are in the same boat, and those who are usually are new and I’m confident will learn to out grow it. Once you get that part down turning the fight around is cake… And if you can get off your 5 because the mesmer was sloppy on the set up then it’s even easier. Sure the point will be contested but I’m sure the +5 points will make up for it ;D

Yes it shuts down MM harder than rangers or other mesmers, but frankly I think it’s more of a fair fight than a one sided rofl stomp where we always trample mesmers.

Funny how you think so highly for this skill when it’s seldom used in casual play and hardly used at high level play. Makes me wonder why your trying to defend an elite that’s mostly practical for trolling in the end. Sure it provides a great base for how ranger pets could be improved but over all it’s an elite that doesn’t serve a real purpose.

Saying that inexperienced people dealing with this skill as a “personal problem” also demonstrates your lack of forethought considering how many mesmers use mass invisibility or Time Warp and never have to deal with a “one sided rofl stomp where we always trample mesmers”.

You must be an idiot to say “4. If your a MM necro and your pets died… I feel for you guys a bit. But you still have MORE than enough strength to turn the fight around even after being moaed.” considering how it kills all the minions and locks a necro out of their survival mechanic “Death Shroud”. You moa a mesmer, big deal the phantasms are still alive. You moa a spirit ranger, big deal the spirits are still alive. You moa a spirit weapon guardian, you see were I’m going with this?

Sure u can use the num 5 to escape for a bit but in many of the situations, it’s just not enough. Sure you can dodge it but for many humans, they just don’t have the reflexes to escape it or the perception to watch out for it.

selan.8354:

The Primary.6371:

DoYourBestBear.6810:

I think the notes are true, to be honest.

Rather than tone down AoE power, they increase it.

Rather than slow balancing, let’s shift the entire game in another direction in terms of power.

Rather than bringing things down, methodically, in terms of power, let’s throw balance darts at the wall and see what happens.

Rather than leaving DPS guard alone, let’s buff it.

Ele was a torturous class to play against at release both in terms of raw power, survivability, and cantrips, let’s bring it back.

Rather than using root cause analysis to problem solve the imbalances, let’s employ jenga balance.

I don’t mean to be overly rude, negative, or derogatory, but this sounds like A.Net.

Actually it looks like anet are trying to kill mesmer aoe ( if you can call clone death by replacement an aoe) by making sure the clones don’t cause death effects when they are replaced. So anet really don’t want mesmers to have much in the way of aoe or have very little control, therefore they want mesmers to be used only for utility in wvw.

^this is the sad truth for mes atm….however if those patchnotes are fake then there is maybe still hope. im so so so tired of veilbotting in wvw. we are a light armor class with the worst aoe i have ever seen on a lightarmor class in an mmo.
we need non ai and non ai related aoe.

True, actual, straight up AOE damage that puts an impact on the battle field.

Kincaidia.3192:

Especially for classes that rely on abilities for damage avoidance. A warrior being moa’d? Meh. They can probably wait it out. A thief or ele getting moa’d?

Check please.

It should force (and allow) a “flee combat or die” scenario, but right now it’s way too harsh an ability, especially when it can easily be cast while the caster is stealthed.

You also forgot about necro. It kills all the minions and also forces them out of death shroud. Yeap anet really thought it through when they created this wonderfully stupid elite.