Guild Wars 2

And I’m saying that the runes are perfectly fine. I’m against changing the entire game in favor of Necromancers, thank you very much.

I actually like the idea of making Terror a pure condition, but it’s not going to happen. I also like the idea of our Wells on a 10 second cooldown (Mind Wrack), but that also is not going to happen.

jportell.2197:

Non-fact. Proper burst for a mesmer is preceded by diversion to stack vulnerability this is on a 40ish second cooldown.

“Preceded by a diversion to stack vulnerability”

Excuse me? You must be using Mesmer wrong, bro. You do far more damage using a quantity theorem.

jportell.2197:

Non-fact it is not the strongest burst in the game considering that thief post mug nerf still hits harder than any mesmer burst. Also it is on a 4s cool down plus have you seen any other classes AA compared to say mesmer sword AA… it kinda sucks… zerker mes AA sword will hit for 700 damage per strike maybe.. Thief sword is a cleave that hits harder even if they have less attk power.
Said Burst is small AoE with maybe 200 range of its intended target meaning you have to be all in your teammates junk to feel a burst that is directed at him.

You must have never used Thief, bro.

jportell.2197:

Phantasmal duelist may use thief P/P unload and side by side both skills are equally effective only reason there is no P/P thieves running around is the complete lack of stealth and mobility in that weaponset… even if thieves were running P/P they are more damaging that iDuelist simply thanks to initiative allowing thief p/p to be spammable.

Phantasmal Duelist is superior than Thief P/P. Ask any decent Thief. Also, Thieves actually lose potential damage by mindlessly spamming Unload.

jportell.2197:

The combo finisher may or may not be a bug.. They adjusted this trait not long ago to make it do the damage that it should (previously pDuelist trait DECREASED the damage of the skill pretty sweet right?!)

That’s relative, considering I feel like the damage of Phantasmal Duelist should be capped at 1.5k.

jportell.2197:

Final Fact rarely will mesmers actually take this trait to make this skill a combo finisher… and why is that? If they do this they can no longer take domination VII to remove boons when shatters hit which is the only decent way mesmers can deal with boon heavy bunkers such as guards/eles/bm rangers considering how ridiculously long the cooldown is for null field.

Actually, no. There are many decents ways of handling Guardian bunkers. Obviously if you want to trait specifically for killing them, then you’re doing something wrong.

Saturn.6591:

Wrong. Warriors and Thieves burst for much more. Also with a shorter cooldown than 10 seconds.

Are you seriously comparing a Shatter Mesmer to a hundred blade Warrior? No. Mesmers can do far more damage than even a backstab Thief with a full Blurred-Frenzy Mindwrack.

Saturn.6591:

It’s also the only one that can be killed. And you can still dodge it. Sometimes you can even outrun it. Another possibility would be blocking it. Actually, there’s so many things you can do.

I don’t know about you, but I can kill a Thief burst pretty well by killing the Thief.

Oh yes, dodging while trapped inside a S/P leap Blurred Frenzy, Daze, Mindwrack shatter. Please, tell me more.

Oh deary me, that leaves Blocking and Invulnerability, which some classes don’t have. So what you’re telling me is, I had better be a Guardian or I’m SOL?

Saturn.6591:

We’re not the only class with AoE-burst. Actually, our AoE is quite unreliable since clones often end up getting killed before they shatter in situations where AoE makes a difference.

Oh right, I forgot, there are other classes that crit 12k+ AoE 10 second CD. My bad.

Saturn.6591:

So what.

So what? What if my Flesh Golem used 100 blades? What if my Flesh Wurm used unload? What if my Blood Fiend could spam Guardian shields?

Saturn.6591:

Fix Thief Unload then. Though, one might argue that a Thief doesn’t die if you sneeze at him, unless he’s a glasscannon… but even then he can still dodge. Oh, and of course Thieves can use Unload much more frequently than phantasms do.

Actually that’s wrong on all accounts. I have seen Phantasmal Duelists that are actually harder to kill than P/P Thieves. Guess what, Thieves can’t constantly spawn more unloading Thief clones either. Nor can they go invulnerable every 10 seconds.

Saturn.6591:

Only when traited. And I think that’s probably a bug

“Only when traited”? That’s actually your answer?

sarcasm I can regenerate 5,000 health per second, but it’s fine because I have to trait for it. sarcasm

Saturn.6591:

As it is right now, we’ve got a bunch of useless traits. We also got 2 weapons that are only useful in very few situations, if at all.

Cry me a river. Go look at Ele, or Necro, or Warrior, or even Thief, and they aren’t even god tier.

Saturn.6591:

On top of that, there’s a weapon which is plagued by bugs currently and thus not nearly as useful as it’s supposed to be.

Saturn.6591:

And then… if you look back a few months, Mesmers got MANY nerfs since then. Funny fact: Back then, Mesmers weren’t considered OP. Since they got nerfed so many times, people began to think that they must be OP just for being Mesmers, so they come to the forums and cry for nerfs for some randomly chosen skill that Mesmers can use. That’s pretty much the only logical explanation for it.

IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE!

Only it doesn’t.

If that’s your excuse and way of justifying it, then you can believe it. Because no one else does. Nothing is nerfed without needing it. Necromancer needed it in the beta, but we received no compensation. We were nerfed harder than you could even imagine, Mesmer.

Zikory, you might be able to pull together one or two 1v1 wins, however in the long run, you don’t have any escapes. I roam in WvW with a power Vampire, but it doesn’t help me much when I end up fighting a 5v1.

PinCushion.7390:

Have fun. I usually burn defensives and run to a keep, because who’s got time for all that?

Ain’t nobody got time for that.

Necromancers are free kills when they try to roam in WvW.

Saturn.6591:

TheMightyAltroll. It’s even in his name. —->Troll<—-. And not just some random one… it’s a mighty one. That actually explains a lot.

I’m seriously getting tired of people crying for nerfs based on pseudo-facts. But I’m quite sure that wouldn’t even stop if they would remove all Mesmer weapons, skills, utilites, elites and also traits… except scepter autoattack. Nerf scepter autoattack; it’s OP!!! I wouldn’t be surprised. I’d be surprised if it wouldn’t happen, lol.

• Fact: You have the strongest burst in the game on a 10 second cooldown.

• Another fact: Said burst is the only one in the game that cannot be interrupted, or blinded.

• Another fact: Said burst is AoE

• Fact: Phantasmal Duelist uses Thief P/P Unload

• Another fact: Phantasmal Duelist is more effective than Thief P/P Unload

• Another fact: Phantasmal Duelist has a 100% combo finisher chance, which is more than Thief unload.

Please, tell me why I should care about Mesmer when they can do that? Mesmer needs to be nerfed before I could imagine their other skills/weapons/traits being buffed.

BobbyT.7192:

He could have done anything really, and yes aoe does happen to work,

No, it does not. Any Thief worth his salt will avoid any AoE fields. Unless you have a team of 7 Power Necromancers all using Deathshroud 4 simultaneously nearby the Thief, you won’t kill him.

SoLeciTO.3490:

I have fought with every single build and profession in this game and this is my conclusion.

Like Dungeons . . . don’t go thief . . . go warrior or Mesmer.
Like SPVP . . . don’t go thief . . . go Ranger, Mesmer, Ele, Guardian
Like PVE . . . Don’t go thief . . . Go Ranger, Mesmer, Ele, Guardian, Warrior, Engi . . .
Like WvW zerk . . . . Don’t go thief . . . . go any else but thief . . . sucks.

Like roaming . . . . go Thief, Mesmer, Ranger, Ele

If you get killed by a roamer thief in wvw because you was just roaming with your necro . . .

Alright, since you’re apparently serious, allow me to answer in order:

• 1: Thieves are fine in Dungeons, they can apply strong DPS and it’s the only place where P/P can actually shine, providing high DPS and blindness from 900 range.

• 2: S/D Thieves are very strong in PvP

• 3: Thieves are fine in PvE

• 4: Stealth based Thieves can actually survive for a long time in Zergs, and are fine.

• 5: Good Thieves cannot be killed in WvW, and deliver 12k+ crits from backstab.

All of your QQ happen to be l2p issues.

As I stated to the Engi asking this: You will not beat a competent Thief in WvW. You simply cannot. They own it, they control it. Unless the Thief is stupid, or wants to die. You cannot kill him.

Guild Wars 1 stealth was never implemented because they said “It would be impossible to balance”

Guess what, the new AA never learned from GW1.

He’s actually QQing about how Thief is underpowered here, that’s hilarious.

Impressive passive aggressiveness Gibbly. “Until you become a competent player” That’s really good. I like that.

The Runes work as intended, and they are fine. “This is ridiculous, I say just make it a condition and not a stun because these runes totally negate us.”

That’s QQ, the QQ is unnecessary when we’re about to receive a large buff. I actually use Melandru runes on many of my bunkers so I am not feared off point.

Necromancers were always good, and now will be overpowered. So brighter days are indeed ahead.

Though it hardly takes alot of time to level to 80. Just join a party to enter CoF path 1, you’ll level up in no time. It’s a level 75 Dungeon, but I’ve been able to carry level 20s through it.

Iceflame.5024:

So here I am playing a necro. I’ve been playing sPVP for about 3 weeks or so and I only know how the necro class works. My understanding of other classes is very limited and for now I’m learning from experience when I play.

Here’s my current build that I’m feeling very comfortable with:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBmWDbkRLevdzXjePBIp45rjUE8yUPKPd2B-ToAgyERpiyFlJKZU2oGes8YjA

Here’s a video of the thief build that I’m talking about. Since I surely know that you will find a lot of mistakes by my part, please remember that I am relatively new to the game and have no proper knowledge of other classes builds. So here’s the video:

http://ru.twitch.tv/iceflame1988/c/2373401

Would appreciate people to point out what I did wrong and tell me how I’m supposed to deal with this.

Also please bare in mind that being a necro I am supposed to be a class that is immensely difficult to disengage from.

I’d like to say that your build is a bit awkward. Despite that, you use it quite well.

I use Thief from time to time, and I actually use that build often. You will not beat it as a condition Necro. It has far too many condition cures. It’s an attrition build, and you will only be able to defeat it by playing it’s own game with it. The only Necromancers to ever beat one of my S/D builds are Wellmancers with alot of bursting power.

But I wouldn’t advise changing your build simply to kill a single Thief. If you want practice against Thieves ingame, I can help you. However, as I said, you will not beat a competent S/D Thief with a ConditionNecro.

Depends on the Mesmer.

MrForz.1953:

Excalibur.9748:

In a couple of seconds you strip all their boons, and you get all their boons. Then you lay the smack down.

Oh, right, boons, almost forgot. Isn’t it remotely possible for a Guardian to show resistance to this? Even through blocks and CC? (Most likely CC) The only experiences I’ve ever had from Sword users were laughable at best. It’s… intriguing. Suppose it must be a real joy to dismantle boon based bunkers bit by bit.

Meditation Guardians will eat Thieves for breakfast.

“stop qqing l2p”

Yup, another self righteous Thief here to tell people to l2p. Nothing to see here.

Mesmer was never squishy even before S/P wasn’t the meta. People just lost skill, I suppose.

Nerfing those 3 things will not break Mesmer, as most overly dramatic people suggest. It would just make it harder to insta gank an entire team with 2 shatter Mesmers. Those 3 things are blatantly overpowered, and that still wouldn’t remove all of the team support Mesmers have (Which they were originally brought in for on most teams)

I’d rather see Mind Wrack, Blurred Frenzy, and Phantasmal Duelist nerfed so they’re not god tier anymore. Then we can actually see what we’re working with underneath the nonsense.

Anyhow, I have used condition based Mesmer in PvP before, it’s actually good. Just wouldn’t seem that way going from Shatter/Phantasmal to it since you’re not nuking someone in a quarter of a second. Confusion is REALLY strong, because it literally makes channeled skills kill you, which is a direct counter for power Necromancers and alot of Guardian builds.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I think it could be interesting to see burning replace Protection of the Horde with something like “Cremation: Minions burn nearby foes when they die.”

Reanimator, which I personally like, would still be the only thing that is guaranteed to make this trait useful, but since Jagged horrors are going to die anyway, this isn’t a bad change as opposed to a mere 20 toughness which is easily ignored.

I despise minions. No thank you.

These threads have been done before, and while they are appreciated attempts at helping the community, they simply do not work. Most of this is remedied through “Experience” of trial and error. Essentially being blown up from the first gigantic Ele explosion and then remembering not to stand in the big red circle the next time.

Circumstancial and wasteful depending on his build/weapon choices.

I use Thief on occasion myself, I couldn’t stand using the annoying metas they’ve got, so I theory crafted for a while and made a somewhat viable P/P based around a S/D evasion build. The problem lies within the two trait trees of Shadow Arts, and Acrobatics.

They made those two trait lines so overpowered and necessary that the class itself shoehorns you into that nonsense of being hard to kill one way, or being hard to kill the other way. Honestly I spent a VERY long time trying to make P/P viable, without those dumb trait lines, you die to burning in seconds. Thief is a very difficult class to play when you’re trying to play it outside of the box, and almost mind bendingly easy to play the metas.

P/P, P/D, S/P are viable, they simply take a huge amount of skill that many players including myself simply do not have with the class. The devs need to take a second look at Thief design, and use GW1 Assassin as a reference.

I wouldn’t know, I have no reason/need to ever use that combination.

Yes. Honestly again, it depends on your purpose. If you have enough money, Divinity is about as much burst as you can get. Though it’s quite expensive. You might try running a condition/shatter hybrid, and use Thieves runes switching out a bit of your Berserker gear for Rabid gear.

ManCaptain.3154:

For me the problems with mesmer are:
- lack of build diversity (20 duelling 30 illusion glass cannon mostly)
- lack of a good cond dmg spec (also in wvw and pve now that they nerfed confusion there)
- dependant on certain traits (like clone on dodge), which means that if any of those get nerfed, the class will plummet like nuts
- this doesn’t come up in spvp much but I feel like I’m not contributing much in terms of team utility in wvw and pve (there’s timewarp but that’s 10 sec out of 210)

Other than that, they are pretty sweet in spvp.

Your team utility happens to be Illusion of Life, which can be made perma through block/deathshroud/invulnerability/evasion. Time warp. AoE Condition cleanses. Portals. AoE Invisibility. Invisibility Fields. Boon sharing.

That’s quite a bit compared to other classes, keeping into account that you still have the strongest burst in the game on a 10 second cooldown.

I’m a bit bitter towards Mesmers that complain about their class.

As a Wellmancer, I 2v1 Thieves quite easily.

But that’s in PvP, when they are forced to stand next to me on a point inside my Wells of doom.

In WvW, all I can say is Nope. You’re not going to do a kitten ed thing against them. WvW is their world, and you cannot kill a good one unless he decides to die. You simply cannot.

I have landed it atleast 95% of the time against above average players. I know considerable amounts of people have difficulty using it until I physically explain to them through voice chat whilst showing them ingame how to do it. You’re not the only one, however it’s incredibly strong, and increasing it’s speed would actually nerf it imo.

Drongas, all of that is purely situational. If he focuses more on Phantasmal Staff, he’ll want a Sigil of air on it. If he focuses on Shatters, he’ll want a Sigil of Flame, same thing with the other weapons.

Air, and Force/Endurance.

Generally the meta, strong on builds across all classes. However it depends on your full build/purposes.

Iruwen.3164:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

And no, I’m not biased.

Nope, clearly not. You just think the class you main (Necromancer) is the most important. No questions asked. I agree that it has more severe bugs that need to be fixed (see topic in PVP forum), but you’re a bit too egocentric.

No, actually I think Warrior is the most important, Elementalist being the second most important (to open up staff and other possibilities other than the x/D-D/x annoying metas), Thief being third (simply because I want to see something other than the annoying D/X-S/D builds), Necromancer/Engineer being the fourth/fifth. Next time, please read the entire context.

I’ll let you in on a little secret: If you ever talked to me ingame, you would know that I don’t support the constant whining about Necromancer in the forums. From my experiences, in my eyes, Necromancers are perfectly fine, albeit buggy. We’re certainly not as blatantly strong as Mesmer, but we’re not bad. I’ll often support getting buffs, despite the fact that I don’t think we need them. Again, we need bug fixes, we have problems, but otherwise we’re strong. The only class that deserves to whine is Warrior.

I don’t watch 1v1 tournaments because they are relatively stupid, but I’m assuming he was pure condition burn burster with Supply drop, right?

Either that or Rifle tank.

Mesmers that complain about nerfs, or bugs have literally no standing with me. As I stated to Jportell

You have the strongest burst in the game that cannot be interrupted or blinded on a 10 second cooldown. You also have invulnerability on a 10 second cooldown. Not to mention that you have practically every tool every other character in the game has such as Stealth or Boon stripping. Even your Phantasmal Mesmer is more effective than a P/P Thief using the same skill.

So as far as I’m concerned, Arenanet could break your other 3 shatters, even ultimately delete half your traits, and I still would consider you mid tier atleast. Until those things are nerfed/fixed, then I can’t take your bugs seriously when I have to look through Warrior/Necro’s glaring problems.

And no, I’m not biased. This is from an objective standpoint, I actually joined this game wanting to main Mesmer, but I couldn’t look the class straight in the face when I realized I was shoved into a tight OP meta build, unable to do anything else. If you want more options, tell Arenanet to nerf you and compensate.

If you don’t want to admit that you could be nerfed, in order to open up more possibilities, then stop complaining please. Because right now, Mesmers don’t have anything to complain about.

Chesire.9043:

I agree and disagree. Since it’s set in stone that it will never be ground targetted again, I don’t like that it’s so easily avoided. I think the projectile needs a speed increase but not a large one. I agree that it needs better homing as well and less pathing issues. Increased range would be nice but I’m not sure it’s needed. Usually if someone is outside it’s range, we’re in a situation where it would be wise to just let them go or we should LoS them to lure them closer.

I use it the same way you mentioned however in that I prepare my attack bursts for when I teleport to them. The fact that it’s easily avoided can mess up an entire rotation quite quickly just with a simple strafe or dodge.

What I would like as an added feature though would be to have us teleport to the max distance regardless if it doesn’t hit anything OR once it has been cast have a secondary ability come up that allows us to teleport to where ever it is at that point in time, making it’s effect AoE around us. It would be harder to land than a ground target ability but would still be highly useful for nay build. I just don’t see that happening either, sadly.

It’s not easily avoided, the fact that it is slow makes it very hard to avoid. Use Deathshroud 3 to buffer it.

That wouldn’t help anyone…

It wouldn’t help Conditionmancers, and it certainly wouldn’t help a power Necro.

I for one am alright with the speed that Dark Path runs at, it means I can buffer alot of my moves with the long travel time to cast the moment I teleport to them. I would rather they increase it’s range, and homing capability.

jportell.2197:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

The Staff for Mesmer, and the S/P combination for Mesmer are downright god tier OP. You cannot deny that. Also, what condition transfer in the focus? What exactly are you talking about?

My bad it was the dagger… Once again still better at dealing with condis than any Mesmer weapon… The staff for the Mesmer is a pure defense weapon and most mesmers don’t trait for CD reduction for the staff leaving skills 4 and 5 on a 35 second CD. Add to the new bug with bouncing attacks and the staff auto attack now gives mesmers absolutely ZERO buffs aside from vigor if it crits. s/p is good for dueling. But once again with any slight bump in the ground for sword 3 leads to the clone standing there for a second and a Mesmer swaps to blurred frenzy the air… yeah that is some massive god tier stuff right there…. Pistol phantasm is strong yes no denying that… iWarlock is strong but the projectile kind of behaves like the guardian scepter AA a side step negates it so we have to try to catch them off guard for it to do anything. Our other phantasms have sever weaknesses like the izerker/iwarden/image… Swordsman is good but since it is only a single attack one dodge negates it entirely.

The day blurred frenzy doesn’t make you invulnerable, and the day you don’t have the strongest burst in the game on a 10 second cooldown, is the day I actually care about Mesmer bugs.

The Staff for Mesmer, and the S/P combination for Mesmer are downright god tier OP. You cannot deny that. Also, what condition transfer in the focus? What exactly are you talking about?

Gee, our weapons already are broken. I use Mesmer myself Mr Mesmer, and guess what? It’s fine. It’s buggy, but it’s HIGH TIER. Warrior, Necro, and Engi are buggy and they’re low tier. Engineer is only viable because of a single dumb OP build.

Some classes have too much access to it, and it’s a ridiculously OP condition that still does nonsensical damage even with no condition damage. I main all classes, and ALOT of builds are made unviable simply because of that dumb condition.

I hate burning. I wish it would be nerfed.

Jackums.3496:

Rayya.2591:

Jettit.7184:

lets nerf everything…every move a mesmer does gives boons to the enemy…mesmer can only have 1 clone and it takes constant etheral dmg lets remove mantras because theres too much “lock down” ability…staff 1 skill doesnt give conditions anymore…

god this whole thing about mesmers being o kitten tupid please stop showing your ignorance and play a mesmer and figure out how to beat them…hmm lets see theres a few things that mesmers cant deal with because no one traits into a bs cc removal build because its useless…we cant remove conditions well…the only thing we can with is on a ridiculous cd…i have an idea lets learn something for once and figure out that mesmers are only as op as you let them be

if mesmer make his staff rotation corectly, with melandru rune, lemongras , rabid
he will have : 1700 condition damage, 17000 hp /2800 armor / 50 critical chance -65% condition duration
phase retreat – 8 seconds blink
perma vigor -1 dodge /5 seconds
perma retailation -COF
blink /decoy -stun breakers.
He is nearly imposible to kill 1 vs 1, not cause confusion, cause mobility

Have you ever fought a D/D Ele 1v1? How about a BM regen Ranger? Or a bunker Guardian? Maybe a stealth Thief? Almost every profession has a spec that is “nearly impossible” to kill in a 1v1. Ignorance is bliss when you’re complaining about a profession that you simply don’t want to have to put effort in and L2P in order to defeat.

Necromancer, Engineer, Warrior, Guardian would like to have a word with you Mr Phantasmal Mesmer.

jportell.2197:

Fenrir.5493:

Overpowered like the thief and the rangers.

Rangers have one OP spec which is garbage in tourneys and thieves are now considered OP because of LS which IMO was over buffed but Anet loves dem thieves… Once again this is not how the Mesmer needs massive buffs but how it needs the bugs that keep getting introduced each and every patch to get fixed…

That is unbelievably false. Beastmaster spec is incredibly powerful for not only bunkering, but tanking considerable damage as well. Larcenous Strike is not as strong as people say, however Sword 2 is far stronger.

If you didn’t focus this topic on MESMERS and actually focused on classes that have more game breaking bugs than you while still being lower tier, then perhaps it might get some decent feedback. Otherwise all I can see is a Mesmer qqing. Which pleases me.

If you’re going Zerker, it’s definitely going to be Dagger mainhand, and since it’s PvE/WvW, I’d recommend Warhorn. Wells, or corruption/Signets. Definitely want Air sigil on your dagger.

30 in Spite with Close to Death is generally a must

15 in Curses is generally a must

and the rest can be thrown around randomly like a child painting a canvas of nonsense.

Iruwen.3164:

Are you afraid that our bugs could actually be fixed before yours?

Kind of. Mesmer already are god tier.

He has no precision, Azraeel.

Blurred Frenzy and Mind Wrack are currently incredibly, almost brokenly strong, and you think they’re UP? Are you serious?

Use Undead Runes with it, 30 in curses, 30 in deathmagic, 10 wherever you like.

Instant condition tank.

Raven.9603:

LordByron.8369:

and yet another great example of pvp players selfishness…

They are the 1% and the want 100%…..

Dear Altroll
PvE and www players are seriously fed up from suggestions that doesn t take in account the most played parts of the game….and can really ruin an already ridicously unbalance situation.

So At least make an effort to think “this game is not only pvp…pvp is the least played game mode….”

Because for how is the game now would have more sense to halve warrior damage while doubling ele’s and reverting all nerfs it ever seen.

PvE needs MORE attention than PvP……or this game will completely die withhis e-sport dream.

and here we have the pve player, claiming that pvp’rs make up only 1% of the population and that their opinions dont matter.
the largest drop this game has had in player base, was not from lack of pve progression, but from lack of wvw progression, free transfers, failure to fix thieves or culling, and complete failure to support esports.

as someone who plays both pve and pvp, anets 5:1 pve:pvp focus has a been a huge negative considering wvw is really the only implemented endgame.

yes, almost all of altrollls suggestions are dumb, but thats really besides the point.

My suggestions were based upon all-‘round class balance. To bring everyone to an equal level. I personally see the most balanced class in the game to be Guardian, it fills it’s role perfectly.

Anything that creates more up-close power, and increases base survivability will turn my Potentate into a fire breathing monster, for me anyways. I can already do amazing things with it.

Tank is being able to eat moderate damage while still applying moderate damage, it is a medium between burst and bunker. A Phantasmal Mesmer can eat shatters with S/P Blurred Frenzy, a Beastmaster Ranger can just tank and outheal them with Troll Ungent.

I honestly feel like you have no idea what these classes are capable of, or if you’ve ever tried using a tank build. I can facetank 2v1 on my condition shortbow Ranger with Troll ungent, just dodging until the CD wears off, then I can simply pick them off one by one. Stomping becomes somewhat difficult, but in a team situation, that’s incredibly strong.