Guild Wars 2

I agree, I was playing earlier and I am so used to my original timing where I go to stack my might and try to do earth while dodge rolling. Oops, it’s on C/D!! Imagine if I was trying to stop a stomp and wanted Earth 4 on dagger. Nope!

Getting bursted and you want water 4 on dagger or earth 5 on focus? sorry! you used those up so that you could do 500 damage. What a trade!

So i finally logged on to try beta weekend, very excited to try out Tempest despite the negative postings on the forum. Unfortunately, I think it sucks. I won’t get into that here because some people like it, some don’t. I’m in the camp that doesn’t.

So since my favorite class is basically going to be garbage in this new expansion, does anyone else have a suggestion of something to play once HOT comes out? I have a mesmer, warrior, and thief. I tried revanent first, it was ok i guess. I will read some guides and give it a shot once the actual expansion comes out.

Mesmer seemed like a cool concept. not sure if anyone here that has normally mained ele has any suggestions. Ele has always been my favorite class but I really want to play something with a useful new skill in HOT…

I have to say I logged in today to try out tempest and uhmm… “underwhelmed” is probably the most politically correct thing I can say about it.

The damage is kind of crap and part of the reason is ele only gets damage from stacking might. I stack the might and swap to air but by the time I can overload I’ve lost half my stacks of might. That doesn’t make sense.

The fire thing doesn’t seem to do burn stacks unless I’m wrong, it seems like it only does 1 stack.

Then don’t get me started on being locked out of your attunement unless you’re running fresh air. This is like a traitline for people who were bad at swapping attunements. Ok just sit in this one and spam this aoe thing and when everything is on cooldown in this attunement you can pick another and do the same thing.

Elementalist to me was about skill and being able to quickly swap to what you need for when you need it, not camping in one attunement for 10 minutes just to channel some spell that does like 500 damage.

SweetPotato.7456:

question: this is match-make by the account or by the toon players are most skill at?

ie: I am better playing mesmer and seriously bad at warrior in pvp, so when I play my warrior do I get team up with the skillful team or the correct level team that my noob warrior should be in?

question: whats MMR ? lol :P

I’m pretty sure MMR is by account overall, not by profession because people can change professions before the match starts.

“Ranked” is actually Swedish for “No skyhammer or courtyard”

Centurion.7296:

Thing is, the MMR isn’t broken, it just sucks, its bad. I’m pretty sure I’m not a bad player, my last game, the enemy started saying to not go to my point (which I was defending) because I was just that good, they couldn’t kill me once (using my own ele build even tho I had some lagging). When I join with my Guildies, we usually win +90% of our games, but after said games and I’m alone again, I start getting these utterly bad players who do not know the basics of PvP nor their roles or classes themselves. Guess this is what I worked more than half the year to achieve (already rank 80 and I’ve 3 lv80 eles, so I kinda do know ma stuff). And the part of how the MMR fails us, like this one match 5 (light + medium classes with dps builds) against the other team that has 2 warriors, a guardian and 2 other dps. Or that match where we had 2 thieves, I asked one to switch and got “thieves were updated, bro”, I told them that 1 must switch or we would horribly fail, then we did then there are premades, you get those Bad premades that you only wish for your enemies, but then you end up with them, why should I suffer these weird-kitten strategies that they come up with? Come on Anet, what game do you want to make here? Is it going to be like WoW? Get players in and then when they play it, it sucks!

I don’t care if you want to balance it
10 7 6 3 2
8 7 5 7 4 6
This is roughlty how the MMR works

I just don’t want to play with people that don’t want or know how to play
How it should be
1 1 1 1 1
1 1 1 1 1
/
2 2 2 2 2
2 2 2 2 2
……
10 10 10 10 10
10 10 10 10 10
This ^ would make PvP, Epic

I wrote a post about it… not many people seemed to care though: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Suggestion-to-solve-MMR-and-Pug-Premade/

deda.8302:

.“It’s unbelievable how many teammates I play with who have the mentality of Rambo. Fight to the death and run to cap mid at all costs even if it’s a 1v3. Nobody is willing to run away from a 1v3 to go cap an undefended point. They’d rather die, respawn, and run right into an unwinnable fight.”

I do this on purpose somtime if im confident i can hold 2-3 players alone
for 30sec -1 min i do this,problem is when every one starts feeding it…
So i write my intention and tell team not 2 come ,or number of player on minimap or jsut x signe but most of the time ppl are not heading a warnings and do what ever they want.

Yes totally valid and if you’re with a good team they will use the diversion to back cap the enemy or do something useful. I’m more talking about players that aren’t as good as you and instead are basically throwing themselves head first into a meat grinder just to run at it again.

Tux kitten inguin.3049:

Still, the friend one does not work. You need players from single queue to fill the 4 ppl-parties up. Or you want solo players to enter the other queue??

I think what he’s trying to say is it would be 3 categories:

1) Parties only
2) Mixed solo & parties
3) Solo only

I have said something similar but I would name it “Premade Queue” where you are in a full premade. A “Solo Queue” where you must be alone. And a “Fastest Match” queue which is basically what we have now and you might be put with a group, might be in a full pug, etc…

cakeonroof.7385:

Conquest is actually pretty boring once you grasp the concept of holding 2 points longer than your competition and avoid getting wiped.

Instead, people run around going for who knows what even if team capped 2 points and leaving points undefended for an easy decap/cap by enemies

Most of the time, the team that triple caps (not from tranquility) becomes vulnerable to getting wiped. Once wiped, it’s back to square one.

The problem is the stupid in game scoreboard that isn’t correlated to actual contribution.

People just want to see their name at the top so they’d rather run around capping points like a chicken with their head cut off while the enemy back caps everything and wins the game. If you take 1 point and hold it the entire game, fight off 2v1’s to give your team an advantage in teamfights at mid, etc…, your score at the end of the match will be like 30 or 40 and it will look like you did nothing to contribute to your team winning.

It’s unbelievable how many teammates I play with who have the mentality of Rambo. Fight to the death and run to cap mid at all costs even if it’s a 1v3. Nobody is willing to run away from a 1v3 to go cap an undefended point. They’d rather die, respawn, and run right into an unwinnable fight.

chibbi.3706:

TorsoReaper.8530:

I made a suggestion where it was the whole screen, nobody even replied. Evidently people like their time wasted.

My alternative suggestion is that it plays an annoying siren or maybe a baby crying noise until you press ready.

Exactly what I need, when i’m already annoyed that I have to change my build manually because there is still no save/load build like there was in gw1, now I also have the siren to kitten me off even more.

I was being sarcastic

kdaddy.5431:

Your last comment alone says why we shouldnt have it. You start to go off about how your a adult blah blah blah. The comment i first made was right under a person who didnt like it in GW1 and gave a reason.

Goes back to my original point of why we shouldnt have it and its because of cry babies who feel they should have it, like you.

If im trying a new build and having fun and you want to quit who has the problem?

If I dont want to quit because i spent 4-7 min in que and were losing big and i just want to compete vs other players, who has the problem?

lastly if you want to see big comebacks just watched the last 2 WTS fool, you talk about being a adult but cant seem to look outside your own window and want to have your hand held for information, matches easily found with comebacks.

The fact that you can’t make any real argument and have to resort to insults just proves what kind of a person you are. You want to call me a fool? Go ahead and link me a match where someone comes back from a 300 point deficit on any map other than Legacy of Foefire. Prove what a fool I am. But we both know you can’t.

kdaddy.5431:

1- i dont want any of my team mates quitting a match for any reason other then a player dcing

2-i dont want my team mates to tell me to surrender during a match cause they feel we cant win. I dont want to hear your negativity just like your post about wasting other players time. Especially if im enjoying/trying a new build and just enjoying the game.

3- if im trying to play at a elite level to maybe be competitive in a AG/ESl tourney i want to see how long i can 1 vs 2 and if i can quickly win a 1 vs 1 in a match that turned 4 vs 5.

4-Not giving quitters and cry babies a reason to quit int he first place. I have had some epic comebacks and epic losses and if we had this stupid button they would of never happened. I dont need loudmouth players having a option to quit simply cause it doesnt look good cause when its a 5 vs 5 conquest things change quickly especially with maps like legacy and temple.

So to recap your points:

1. You know what is best for everyone
2. You have no respect for other people’s time as long as you’re having fun
3. Go in hotjoin if you want to play an unbalanced match. Hotjoin is full of them.
4. Please send me a youtube clip of a 300+ point comeback on a map other than LOF

I really think the bottom line is that, unfortunately, I’m an adult. I’m not in college or high school anymore. I don’t have time to play for 5 or 6 hours a day and screw around in a bunch of imbalanced games that matchmaking shouldn’t have done in the first place. I really don’t mind losing. I would rather lose 10 games in a row when the score is 400 to 500 than win 10 games 500 to 100.

I never said it should be one person hits surrender and all is lost. I think it should be a vote. Even if it was 4/5 people voting one way, I’d be fine with that. Not sure why you’re scared of democracy…

Mightybird.6034:

How do you know its a pug vs a premade? Are you asking them? Seriously, curious.

When everyone on the other team is repping the same guild tag is the most obvoius way.

kdaddy.5431:

TorsoReaper.8530:

Demented Yak.6105:

I will never surrender. In fact, if they add a surrender button to the game, I quit.

If it takes all 5 people to vote surrender, you can theoretically never surrender if you want to be that guy that wastes everyone else’s time.

^^^^ this right here is why its wrong. At no point is this type of attitude ok for a PvP. I wont use other games as a example since the entire idea is stupid. IN H.S ,College and Professional sports there is no toss in the flag especially since its a team sport.

If you dont like MM do hot joins, if you dont like hot joins join daily servers, if you dont like that then what are you doing in PvP. Im sorry but this is the most ridiculous thing ive ever seen. I have had people quit because they lose 1 vs 1 and he asked for help and no one came. I have had people quit when we were winning a match and they decided that they were carrying and its why we were winning.

And now you want to give all the trolls/ Bad mannered players/negative attitude/ cry babies who play this game a out. Would you also like a ribbon for participating?

I think there’s a huge difference between sports and casual games. If you’re an ESL player and this is your job, maybe you should stay, you’re getting paid to. If someone is playing casually for fun, it’s a matter of efficiency. Video games are a competitive marketplace where companies compete for our time. If people think a surrender button will make Guild Wars 2 a better game, on par with Starcraft and League of Legends, maybe it’s something Anet should consider. LOL and Starcraft are obviously doing something right since their player base dwarfs GW2.

And maybe you can explain how surrender is worse than the leavers in hotjoin? If everyone on a team agrees to give up, everyone as a team gets to move on. In hotjoin people leave the match when they’re down by 20 which almost guarantees a loss because now it’s 4 v 5.

Demented Yak.6105:

I will never surrender. In fact, if they add a surrender button to the game, I quit.

If it takes all 5 people to vote surrender, you can theoretically never surrender if you want to be that guy that wastes everyone else’s time.

Soul.9280:

deda, I think you’re on to something as I too often see either a lot of wins or a lot of losses on a particular day. Perhaps they need to update MMR more frequently than once per day…

I keep hammering this and the devs will not respond but I have noticed when I am getting slaughtered on a particular day it’s like “guild premade day” and I keep getting matched against people from the same pvp guild. Prime time is probably the worst and early afternoon PST is probably the best.

I made a suggestion where it was the whole screen, nobody even replied. Evidently people like their time wasted.

My alternative suggestion is that it plays an annoying siren or maybe a baby crying noise until you press ready.

Yea it’s kind of bs, that is why I always volunteer. It sucks to swap to the losing team when it’s a blow out but if I am at risk of getting force swapped and getting nothing, I might as well volunteer and get something.

I feel like bunker spec and vamp runes came about from people getting insta gibbed by thief and mesmer. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong though.

Not sure why people are worried about abuse. I’m not suggesting one person clicks surrender and the whole game is over. It would be a voting system where either 3, 4, or everyone has to click agree. I think what kind of majority you need is what could be up for debate.

I’m even fine with the suggestion that you can’t surrender too early or unless the score is too far apart. I think league of legends there is a 5 minute cutoff or something where you at least need to try for that long.

Soul.9280:

The issues with match making still don’t seem fixed. I played 8 matches tonight, the first 7 in a row resulted in losses (no 4v5s or anything, just straight up failures of the matchmaker to make a good match). I finally won the 8th game and… it was a 4v5 in our favor. I think you devs should recheck things…

Most of my matches are still against premades but the 1 or 2 games i had against regular pugs were pretty close matches.

I’m convinced they’re never going to fix the premade vs pug thing because they want to promote gw2 as a ESL type game so they want the premade teams to feel good about themselves and farm pugs. If they take away pug / premade, solo queue goes back to being great but premade queue times go through the roof thus driving away what they believe is their core customer.

Matchmaking is still a mess. When it’s pug vs pug, honestly the matches tonight have been pretty good… too bad those are only about 25% of my games.

If there are still going to be a lot of these blow out 100 to 500 games, can you please add a surrender button? I mean seriously, when it’s 300 to 50 i think we know how it’s going to turn out. Why make us sit through another 200 points of misery. Please let the premade that is stomping my team move on to another pug.

nearlight.3064:

WereDragon.6083:

This was a nerf to Zerk Ele, not Cele Ele. D/D Ele is still going to decimate.

I just want to clear out this misconception.

Per phantaram, the best zerker ele build is marauder S/F air/earth/arcane. I don’t see how it was nerfed considering it doesn’t run fire traits, dagger skills, or ice bow, but actually did get buffed with more damage on two very lackluster skills.

So yeah, zerker ele wasn’t nerfed, since the only good zerker ele builds in pvp weren’t abusing fire to begin with.

S/F is a very good build because of all the defensive focus skills which lets you run a more aggressive amulet setup but it’s got crap healing compared to S/D or D/D so I think it’s a bit of a trade. The buffs on scepter aren’t even worth mentioning.

I thought step 1 is come on forums and create a thread titled “D/D Ele is OP”

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Read the final post in this thread.
Concerning proper distribution of MMRs amongst three node play.
These are the two biggest core problems plaguing match making.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/High-MMR-is-punished-for-solo-que/page/3#post5540416

It scrolled off the first page of the forum too quickly today. It should have stuck around long enough for people to read.

I completely agree with almost everything you wrote. I still think 3’s should not be with 10’s (in the theoretical sense that we have exact mmr), but if the pvp pop on a certain day was only 10 total people, I think your suggestion is the best possible team balance.

I would much rather have a longer queue time than getting put with a terrible team and having a guaranteed loss. Long queue time of 5 minutes to get into a good game = 5 wasted minutes. Short queue time of 2 minutes to get into a 15 minute 100 to 500 blowout = 17 wasted minutes.

Vapour.7348:

Bellizare.5816:

Was on a loser streak, then fell into a match where we came back to win 500 vs 499. Closest match I’ve ever seen. Unfortunately, there seem to be too many matches that end 500 vs 0. No way you can convince me that is good match making. No wonder people leave of afk.

I know some players are notorious AFKers but I agree that sometimes I feel the actions of AFKers are justified because they fell victim to bad matchmaking.

Leaving or AFKing is better for your health because it’s not good for your blood pressure to endure watching your team and importantly, yourself get farmed over and over again.

The 500 to 0 or 500 to 100 is the reason this game needs a surrender button. Either fix matchmaking or add a surrender button. PVP needs one or the other.

Erindriel.2351:

All hail our new condi necro overlords.

They control the ground, they’re tanky, they can spam 4-6k crits of direct damage AND all conditions in the game, while holding / capping a point and killing 2+ people at a time.

Seriously. There’s a reason this was and still is relevant! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrQQ9BHEstI

omg so funny, so true.. it’s like beating a dead horse ;(

never really saw anyone use ice bow in pvp since you have to just be a sitting duck while #4 channels…

Tux kitten inguin.3049:

Considering onyl your first post, thats what the alogrithm does (despite that hightier-lowtier bug). The example you quote was an answer to a post before where it was a boundary condition to get those exact playsers into one match. The only question was how to distribute them.
Of course the algorithm tries to mix players with similar mmr. Thats why they fix this bug that caused to break this rule.

I guess we will see on tuesday but that isn’t how i read the patch notes. I read it as sometimes within the teams they formed, the best player gets put on an extra bad team. Not as in “we put all the new people together in one match and veterans in another”.

If you can tell me you’ve never played with people who don’t even know how to cap points, then maybe I will believe you but we all know there are some serious issues with people who literally know nothing about PVP being put into matches they have no business being put into and it hurts everyone involved.

I predict matchmaking will still be a mess even after the tuesday patch.

I had a slew of these last night. I can’t really blame someone going AFK when you’re down 100 to 450 but I had someone leave when we were only down 20 >.<

I think the solution to people leaving or going AFK on wide margin losses is to just include a surrender option like League of Legends so we can get on to the next match that isn’t a mess.

On the tighter matches where people go AFK or leave, add a way we can report these people.

Saiyan.1704:

Never said only 1000 people played the pvp season. What I did imply was that 1000 is a big enough pool to see exactly where the win/lose ratio stood amongst players.

I’m going to refer you back to survivorship bias. http://bit.ly/1iFMBKL

My point isn’t how you calculate MMR, it’s how you match people based on their MMR.

Right now it matches people who don’t even know basic capture point rotation with people who have played over 1,000 matches. This doesn’t make any sense. A person who is very good shouldn’t get weighed down by a team of new players and a new player shouldn’t have to fight against people who are exponentially better.

If Anet is doing 2% they need to raise it. You clearly disagree that premades are a problem. Maybe you only play premade and that’s why you defend the status quo so vociferously. But at the end of the day, matchmaking has been markedly worse since they took away the solo queue option.

Saiyan.1704:

TorsoReaper.8530:

Dawdler.8521:

TorsoReaper.8530:

Dawdler.8521:

Forcing? Uhm… If we assume two equal teams – or unequal for that matter – there is a 50% chance you will win and a 50% chance you will loose. Which means that the average over time will be just that, 50%.

Its hard to avoid basic math. People that doesnt approach this is doing things to avoid it. Like the pics above. Its not suspicious at all with 80% winrate in custom arenas and close to 50% in any normal matchup. Nope, not at all.

Except when the matchmaking system isn’t flipping a coin but rather a complicated algo that can be admittedly broken.

Which still wont change the fact that the average will gravitate towards 50%.

If its broken, it will be broken on both sides but the 50% remain – sometimes you end up in the team that roflstomps the opponent, sometimes you end up in the team that is roflstomped.

Sure the matchmaking could be better. But loosing 8 times in a row is just bad luck. I bet the OP still has around 50% winratio. Because he’s probably won 8 or so times in a row too. A couple of days ago, I won 4 matches in a row (the only 4 I played that day, 100% win ratio w00t!). Yesterday, I lost 3 matches in a row and won the 4th by literally the skin on my chin (I held center vs 2 enemies, they got it down to 20% cap and we won with 500 vs 498 or something haha).

Still will never be 50% if you solo queue because pug vs premade w/l ratio is going to be in the 30% range or less. Therefore if you have 50/50 on your pug vs pug and 30/70 on your pug vs premades, your weighted average will be less. The only way someone can get 50/50 is if they have insanely good luck that they are on amazing pugs that can take on premades who practice together and have voip going (unlikely) or if someone does a fair amount of premade vs pug themselves in order to offset their pug vs premade losses.

Wrong.
How often do you think a 1+1+1+1+1 vs premade happen?

Look at the current leaderboards.

In 1000 players, how many people do you see with less than 45% win rate? The averages are all around 50%, +/- 5%.

You’re talking about extremes here. I can’t help it if you get premades back to back for 10 straight games. That’s definitely not happening to everyone. For starters, I haven’t faced a premade in a week. Really wish I got more tbh.

" I can’t help it if you get premades back to back for 10 straight games."

That sentence alone proves my point because you’re admitting that premades are going to beat pugs. I know you think anet matchmaking is great and there’s nothing wrong with it. You’ve been proven wrong there. You think pug vs premade isn’t a problem, there is. When 90% of the 500 people who take a survey want solo queue back, there’s absolutely a problem. 500 is beyond a statistically significant sample size.

In addition, pvp leaderboard only goes to 1000. You’re telling me only 1000 people played pvp last leaderboard season? That’s the entire population? Pretty sure GW2 has sold over 5,000,000 copies. If they let us see every single person’s W/L ratio in GW2 we would see A LOT of people at < 40%. There’s also something called “survivorship bias”. If someone has a win rate of < 40%, how long do you think they’ll keep playing pvp? So if we only count W/L on “active players” we’re going to get a skewed ratio.

Finally, if you truly hope you get put against some premades, I do too. That way you’ll stop thinking matchmaking is totally fine.

Picture is better than words:

http://i.imgur.com/xGQAYrK.jpg

Dawdler.8521:

TorsoReaper.8530:

Dawdler.8521:

Forcing? Uhm… If we assume two equal teams – or unequal for that matter – there is a 50% chance you will win and a 50% chance you will loose. Which means that the average over time will be just that, 50%.

Its hard to avoid basic math. People that doesnt approach this is doing things to avoid it. Like the pics above. Its not suspicious at all with 80% winrate in custom arenas and close to 50% in any normal matchup. Nope, not at all.

Except when the matchmaking system isn’t flipping a coin but rather a complicated algo that can be admittedly broken.

Which still wont change the fact that the average will gravitate towards 50%.

If its broken, it will be broken on both sides but the 50% remain – sometimes you end up in the team that roflstomps the opponent, sometimes you end up in the team that is roflstomped.

Sure the matchmaking could be better. But loosing 8 times in a row is just bad luck. I bet the OP still has around 50% winratio. Because he’s probably won 8 or so times in a row too. A couple of days ago, I won 4 matches in a row (the only 4 I played that day, 100% win ratio w00t!). Yesterday, I lost 3 matches in a row and won the 4th by literally the skin on my chin (I held center vs 2 enemies, they got it down to 20% cap and we won with 500 vs 498 or something haha).

Still will never be 50% if you solo queue because pug vs premade w/l ratio is going to be in the 30% range or less. Therefore if you have 50/50 on your pug vs pug and 30/70 on your pug vs premades, your weighted average will be less. The only way someone can get 50/50 is if they have insanely good luck that they are on amazing pugs that can take on premades who practice together and have voip going (unlikely) or if someone does a fair amount of premade vs pug themselves in order to offset their pug vs premade losses.

According to Anet, this is how the matchmaking system works right now:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/High-MMR-is-punished-for-solo-que/first#post5000108

The current system is more likely to produce a result like this…
Red: 10, 5, 4, 3, 2
Blue: 6, 4, 3, 2, 1

Which could be argued is less fair, but really because MMR isn’t the only factor this is an oversimplification.

My suggestion is that for pug vs pug, it should be looking at multiple matches so if we have players of random rankings between 1 and 10, the matches should look like this:

Red: 1,1,2,3,2
Blue: 1,3,1,3,2

Red: 4,5,7,5,6
Blue: 7,7,4,4,6

Red: 10,9,9,8,8
Blue: 8,8,10,10,9

The game prioritize matchmaking in the following way:

1. Put people of similar levels into the same match. A 1 should never play against a 10.
2. After doing #1, try to make the match as even as possible.

If it’s a pug vs a premade, the average MMR of the premade team should be multiplied by something like 1.15x or 1.25x in order to take into account the obvious advantages a premade has versus a pug. Anet can look at the point distributions and adjust this multiplier as needed in order to not have premades dominate pugs but also vice versa.

The reason I say point distributions is because W/L ratio is bull. Someone can have a 50/50 W/L ratio but if every game is 500 to 100 either for or against, this is not good matchmaking and not fun pvp. It’s much more important to have games be 450 to 500 and maybe the W/L strays from a 50% average because a competitive match that is lost is much less disheartening than a blow out loss.

I know people will say “this is exactly what will happen in leagues”. Given Anet’s history with matchmaking and their refusal to address the inherent imbalance of soloq vs premade q, I am very skeptical.

Finally, someone will inevitably say “they can’t do what you’re suggesting because populations are too low”. This is untrue according to Anet: ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Leagues-1/first#post5511329 )

I think what he’s saying is 100% true except the racist part.

Assume Pug vs Pug win rate = 50%.
Assume Pug vs Premade win rate = 35%

Regardless of your mix of pug vs pug or pug vs premade, you will always come out to a weighted average < 50%.

If they add this they should add a surrender button. If it’s 300 to 10, do we really need to see how the next 200 points will turn out?

Anet’s response to low pop:

While I’ll let the PvP team respond to the other points here, I do want to take a moment and address this:

PvP has steadily grown in population and play hours going on nearly a year now. It’s sky-rocketed since the game went free, and the two weeks before this have been our best weeks literally since the week the game launched. We anticipate this week will be the best week login/play wise PvP has ever had in the history of Gw2.

I don’t want to trivialize your points – and our competitive team has some great reasons why things operate the way they do they’ll lay out and explain in relation to leagues soon: I do want to call out you’re using false population data to support your point.

From an ArenaNet perspective, PvP is the fastest growing part of Gw2 and had more success for us as a business in the last year than it’s had by far in the history of the Guild Wars franchise. Next year is going to be even bigger because of that success.

I’m really proud of the work the team has done and the work our amazing player community who has helped grow competitive PvP just as much as our dev team has and would hate to see that lost in this discussion.
-CJ

So they didn’t remove solo queue because of the population. They removed it because they hate us.

Dawdler.8521:

Forcing? Uhm… If we assume two equal teams – or unequal for that matter – there is a 50% chance you will win and a 50% chance you will loose. Which means that the average over time will be just that, 50%.

Its hard to avoid basic math. People that doesnt approach this is doing things to avoid it. Like the pics above. Its not suspicious at all with 80% winrate in custom arenas and close to 50% in any normal matchup. Nope, not at all.

Except when the matchmaking system isn’t flipping a coin but rather a complicated algo that can be admittedly broken.

As one of the louder people complaining about the matchmaking system I will say I am truly grateful to hear Anet is trying improve the system.

I pray these updates will help keep pugs from getting obliterated by premades but that is probably not likely; however, if it helps pug vs pug that is better than nothing.

I think matchmaking is set to try to give you a 50/50 win loss ratio in pug vs pug. Pug vs Premade there’s no possible way that is happening unless the algo says “because this is a premade, artificially increase their MMR by X%” in order to account for all the advantages a premade has. Because of this, any win rate will always be lower than 50% because if your max long term win rate pug vs pug is 50% and your pug vs premade win rate is 40, 30, or 20%, the 2 figures will average out to somewhere < 50% in the long run.

Anet will respond to lots of stuff in the forums but anything pertaining to solo queue they won’t touch with a 10 foot pole.

Mark my words, if Anet doesn’t bring back solo queue with HOT, the league system will be an utter failure because people who don’t have friends to run premades with will be relegated to the bottom tiers. Even if someone is the best gw2 pvp’er ever, but he’s with a crap team against a good premade, he can maybe make a match that should have been 500 to 100 as close as 500 to 200 or 500 to 300 but he’ll never carry an entire team. This just isn’t that type of game.

Obviously we lost all of them, and none of them close. I know Anet likes to say “bla bla bla MMR bla bla bla sometimes it’s streaky”.

Can anyone at Anet explain how MMR calculates into getting put into unfair matches as a solo queue player vs premades?

Right now I can pretty much say for sure, MMR either doesn’t exist or isn’t used at all for matchmaking.

These teams that are coordinated and used to playing with eachother, teams that have good compositions, teams that are on VOIP?

There’s a poll in another thread with 89% of the pvp base saying that solo queue needs to come back and absolutely no communication from anet other than a post saying “pvp populations are great!”.

silvermember.8941:

style.6173:

assassin.7895:

No

fifteen characters

No, you don’t want a matchmaking system that works?

It is also hard to make a good matchmaking system when the system does not have a lot of players. Yes, pvp has been growing and blah blah blah. It does not change the fact that the already small PvP pop is split between EU and US and among 24 horus in a day.

The point being although you are trying to be cheeky as a result of colin’s comment, MM cannot be fixed IF there aren’t enough players at any given moment in time.

Also people lie all the time on the forums in an attempt to rationalize their failures.

tl;dr

This topic exist simply out of ignorance. MM will never be fixed because it cannot fix the pop problem. Never forget that the already small PvP pop is split on two servers (US and EU) and between 24 hours.

ColinJohanson.2394:

TorsoReaper.8530:

The current system is making the player base smaller by the minute.

While I’ll let the PvP team respond to the other points here, I do want to take a moment and address this:

PvP has steadily grown in population and play hours going on nearly a year now. It’s sky-rocketed since the game went free, and the two weeks before this have been our best weeks literally since the week the game launched. We anticipate this week will be the best week login/play wise PvP has ever had in the history of Gw2.

I don’t want to trivialize your points – and our competitive team has some great reasons why things operate the way they do they’ll lay out and explain in relation to leagues soon: I do want to call out you’re using false population data to support your point.

From an ArenaNet perspective, PvP is the fastest growing part of Gw2 and had more success for us as a business in the last year than it’s had by far in the history of the Guild Wars franchise. Next year is going to be even bigger because of that success.

I’m really proud of the work the team has done and the work our amazing player community who has helped grow competitive PvP just as much as our dev team has and would hate to see that lost in this discussion.
-CJ

assassin.7895:

No

fifteen characters

He said this because he’s one of the few people who likes to run around in a 5 man premade stomping on pugs… if they fix matchmaking and get a soloq going he might have to win a match fairly.

I think we should just keep bumping this until we get someone to respond on why Anet wants pvp to be premades only.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Revolutionen.5693:

Why isn’t the system like this: High MMR vs High MMR, low MMR vs low MMR? Why do they mix high and low MMR in a single team?

The concept is like this:
You have a 10 people, 1 is the best, 10 is the worst.

Red Team: 10, 5, 4, 3, 2
Blue team: 9, 8, 7, 6, 1

The idea behind it is #1 spot should be challenged, after all, if it was spread even between the two teams #1 will ALWAYS be #1. Despite the teams MMR being perfectly even between the two. If you add the even numbers and the odd numbers, the team with the #1 player will have a combined MMR of 25 and the other team would have the combined number of 30. That is why you must challenge the #1 spot and keep it unfair, as if you are #1 you will STAY #1 as your team will always been better than the other.

It sucks, but it’s math. You CANNOT perfectly match players 100+ queuing players that have MMR ranging between 1 and 10,000

But here is the issue, the low player base.
Instead of 10-1 you got 10,000-1 so teams can look like this

Red Team MMR: 708, 80, 56, 43, 30
Blue Team MMR: 700, 650, 432, 320, 5

Blue might as well /resign
To make matters even worse, queuing as a team can be even more toxic.

Team Queue Red MMR: solo queing -> 3,473, 23, 17, 10, 9, 8
Team Queue Blue MMR: 440, 338, 285, 108, 34 <- solo queing

There has been plenty of times I beat top tier teams, but you know what happens? The enemy team had that 1 Ranger which I camped at far point all game on my Elementalist, it might as well been a 4v5 as I was able to run between mid and far, holding both points the entire game without any issues. It was simply because the MMR for Red Team is monstrously high so to make it ‘fair’ the system will grab practically anyone with low MMR.

This wouldn’t be an issue if PvP had more players. When you have more numbers to match, the easier it is to put them together.

---

If the system was ‘fair’ we’d be seeing queue times of +30 minutes or even hour long queues.

Right now Anet is saying that populations are high and growing so….

displacedTitan.6897:

ITT: People who have never played a MOBA long enough to realize that MMR systems are inherently “streaky”.

The matchmaker tries to force your overall win/loss to 50% over time. So in some games, yes, you have less than a 50% chance to win on purpose. HOWEVER, if you do win them then your MMR increases at a greater rate than it would for a 50+% chance to win match. This is how your MMR will increase over time until you hit a wall of skill and stay at 50%.

The real problem is that people blame “premades” and “unfair matches” rather than their own failures or misplays.

Just take a look at the person posting their stats on this thread, they have an 80% winrate in custom arenas, i.e. not matchmaking games that they clearly stack with friends against hotjoiners. This same person has less than 50% win in unranked/ranked, meaning that they think their losses are to “premades” but more likely the losses result from bad habits picked up playing EZ custom games.

Here’s some simple math and hopefully you can correct me if I’m wrong but, unfortunately, I don’t think I am.

Let’s say someone plays 100 matches, normally you would assume a 50% win rate and therefore 50 wins, 50 losses. HOWEVER, we DO have premades. Let’s say a pug vs premade only has a 40% chance at winning (which is probably lower but let’s just say this is the number because I’m being nice). Out of 100 matches, if half are pug vs premade and half are pug vs pug (again, i’m being pretty darn generous), you are now at 25 wins + 20 wins for a net W/L ratio of 45%. IRL pug vs premade happens incredibly often and the chance of a pug team beating a premade team who has better communication, better team comp, and better synergies from playing together, the w/l probability is probably closer to 20% which would imply a < 35% w/l ratio.

ColinJohanson.2394:

TorsoReaper.8530:

The current system is making the player base smaller by the minute.

While I’ll let the PvP team respond to the other points here, I do want to take a moment and address this:

PvP has steadily grown in population and play hours going on nearly a year now. It’s sky-rocketed since the game went free, and the two weeks before this have been our best weeks literally since the week the game launched. We anticipate this week will be the best week login/play wise PvP has ever had in the history of Gw2.

I don’t want to trivialize your points – and our competitive team has some great reasons why things operate the way they do they’ll lay out and explain in relation to leagues soon: I do want to call out you’re using false population data to support your point.

From an ArenaNet perspective, PvP is the fastest growing part of Gw2 and had more success for us as a business in the last year than it’s had by far in the history of the Guild Wars franchise. Next year is going to be even bigger because of that success.

I’m really proud of the work the team has done and the work our amazing player community who has helped grow competitive PvP just as much as our dev team has and would hate to see that lost in this discussion.
-CJ

I just wanted to put this beauty of a snippit in here in case anyone had the hope that we could get solo queue back if populations improve. Evidently populations are fine, they just took away solo queue because… because…… reasons…