Guild Wars 2

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

i give more than just your one sided view. you think dire is better i think carrion is better. who is right? well i supposed that depends on goals and playstyle/experience. my thief has 4400 hours logged. screen shot is available. 3 legendies (incin,quip,dreamer and firebringer) while finishing my 4th. full ascended now for a while and lots n lots of everything else extras etc etc.

You dont give more than a 1 sided view and you have a very skewed perspective. Every thread where I’ve ever said anything about dire you have came in with your counter argument of carrion. Which is fine, but don’t pretend like you advocated any different. And if I recall, carrion wasn’t even in the armor sets that the OP was curious about trying. So take your argument to a thread that wants a carrion comparison.

Also, what does legendaries have to do with anything? I have the same 3 legendaries in less than half the playtime. Irrelevant.

Travlane.5948:

still dont see how you need the extra “toughness” when its so defensive. its literally the most defensive build a thief can have. high HP high toughness high healing high blinds etc etc. so yeah. prolly a good idea to bring a toughness set of armor to really boost the build where its weak right? hrm….. well its ok if u need the toughness. some players do.

Here, since I apparently haven’t been as direct as possible. Why the extra toughness? If you cant answer that for yourself then you must be a god at this game. You must never take any damage, you must never get “trained” or “focused”, you must never miss a cloak and dagger or shadow strike, and you must time all of your dodges so perfectly that you avoid all CC. Perfect gameplay all the time.

Your build doesnt have high toughness. 1200 toughness/2300 armor is nothing. High blinds only occur if you’re traited for it, which was/is still a preference thing even after the initiative buff.

Travlane.5948:

@ OP. again its however much exp you have and how your playstyle is. if u have bad reaction time/ low exp yes dire is better. if u wanna actually be able to kill guardians and defensive players you will need a bit more dmg. if you [plan on going in zerg and fighting on the front line….none will help you. i suggest go SPVP and try out some amulets. see how it goes. youll get the hang out it!

…And you call me spiteful, yet you’re being completely condescending, all while misinterpreting facts. My reaction time is great and so is my experience. I can kill ANYTHING. Let me repeat, ANYTHING, guardians included, using dire. Why? Because I know how to set up bursts, because I land critical interrupts, etc. Stop making the argument that dire thieves just have absolutely zero damage. They have a kitten ton.

And please do not bring a condi thief into spvp. That might be the most laughable statement you’ve made Mr. 4k hours.

i gave the opposite side of your view. was literally the point of my post. ur not too good at keeping up huh.

you cant argu my statements either which is ok. because overly defensive is your playstyle and there is nothing wrong with that. but maybe the OP becomes experienced and wants a different style or skill lvl.

Many run 10 0 30 0 30 for extra dmg and healing etc.

2500 HP every 21s (steal) (2 boons and vigor if ricochet not traited)
+300 toughness
+300 Healing power
+2ndary vitality (armor stats)
AOE blind on steawlth
+330 HP per sec stealthed
+7540 HP per 30 secs (Hide in shadows)
+FULL HEALFULL CONDI REMOVAL every 60 secs (Shadow refuge)
-2 conditions per stealth
+1320 HP -2 conditions (blinding Powder)
-3 Condi (shadowstep)
+6100 HP from exotic armor.

now…sure you can sub out some of these skills but they will always be less productive. this is pretty much a given for all p/d condi builds. some may not take 30 in condi line or 30 in SA but thats the best bet. high dmg high defense

so again i dont see how this build…thats so much healing so much defense….needs….more defense.

but i will say this agian. it comes down to playstyle and experience. if u need extra defense on a nearly fully defensive build…so be it. if you dont….and you want the killing power…go power.

theres both sides right there.

thieves cant tank. period. doesnt matter if u give them the highest amount of armor they can get. 30 in SA full soldiers or clerics or apoth or dire etc. they still die fast.

Interceptor.2653:

Travlane.5948:

srry ur wrong. tell u what… i challenge you to a fight. you run full venom share ill run build of my choice….and ill run naked. ya? ill spank ya 9/10 times prolly more. nuff said.

So just to be clear: when someone makes the point that venomshare is powerful in organized groups, your rebuttal is to challenge them to a 1on1 fight, and this is supposed to prove your position correct?

no srry you missed the point. but thats bc we are using black and white words rather than inflections upon words.

the point is …. go ahead pop your venoms….. you die and have no defense. all you have is auto attack really… SB SB SB . better stay in back until your 36s is up! then u can be used again.

Also guardian F2 outheals entire venom build. period. thats 1 skill. so if thats possible why would u ever run a venom share build? reroll to guardian. atleast they can bring Line of warding. 15 might for 5 allies. 10x the healing. 10x the hp/defense/armor and even give AOE fields for might and retal/healing. sure venomshare is the THIEVES best healing spec….. but its not a case where you say ok…lets go 50 v 50 and bring X thieves….bc X=0. they cant out produce other classes. if you wanna compare venomshare WITHIN the class i agree. but theres a reason all the pro thieves dont play it. its for people having fun or trying to make it work in pve. venomshare was never “almost there” and never will until they rework venomshare trait so that venoms are viable without it.

Mordecai.6318:

Travlane.5948:

p/d is a very defensive set.

Blind on Stealth
Heal in stealth
remove condi in stealth
Shadow strike gap creator
CND stealth+heal+blind+condi removal
dancing dagger keeps opponents slowed and away
immob keeps opponets pinned down
High hp
High toughness
high Healing

with all this…… thats pretty much standard…. id suggest using…

CARRION armor. it gives you atleast double dmg and going from 450 to over 1k on sneak attack really adds up. even normal auto attacks. you know how many sneak attacks you use and shadow shots>

if you are a new player yeah get that dire….. itll help a newer player stay alive much better.

mobility is low however i just use p/d p/d and on both daggers i use 50% engery on switch so every 8 secs i get one more evade…..that is basically the same as “energy on dodge trait” so now u dont have to spec into acrobats.

i run mug + slieght of hand for more healing and more dmg so power is better here.

basically run a dmg armor. its like telling a guardian to go shamans when hes using GS and S/F .. . . just not what he needs.

again all depends on your experience.

I’m glad you made your appearance here again just to judge someone elses skill set by the armor attributes they choose. I’ve got 1.5k hours on thief. That’s far from new and I use the dire prefix. I’ve also won a notable amount of duels against notable players from amazing guilds in T1.

It does not depend on your experience. Carrion was the only prefix available when I started running P/D 5 months ago. I ran the weapon set just fine being brand new to the set and its play style. The difference is I have never been hit for more than 5800 on a backstab using dire, ever. Whereas, 8k was frequent with carrion. If you want to talk about things “adding up” then you should probably think about the damage you’re taking, considering its significantly higher. Condition thieves are mostly attrition based.

The best offense is a good defense. Welcome to biggest, yet true cliche ever.

Lastly,

p/d is a very defensive set.

Correct. So why use offensive armor?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYFmI4e40k2UvHfdsmVrANB-jUBBIhCiZoFRjtsuIasaGYaUER1SBAz0I-w

1600 power/2600 attack is laughable for anything trying to do actual damage.

i give more than just your one sided view. you think dire is better i think carrion is better. who is right? well i supposed that depends on goals and playstyle/experience. my thief has 4400 hours logged. screen shot is available. 3 legendies (incin,quip,dreamer and firebringer) while finishing my 4th. full ascended now for a while and lots n lots of everything else extras etc etc.

still dont see how you need the extra “toughness” when its so defensive. its literally the most defensive build a thief can have. high HP high toughness high healing high blinds etc etc. so yeah. prolly a good idea to bring a toughness set of armor to really boost the build where its weak right? hrm….. well its ok if u need the toughness. some players do. but its also good to let other people know theres another side. why are you so narrow minded and spiteful. your views arent any more correct than anyone elses. thats why they are YOUR views. and mine are….well…mine. this is a public forum and people come here to ask questionslike this for thieves just like me. so if u think yours is better….fine. no need to even bring me up. almost like you have a lil…crush or something. plz refrain for attacking the person and just give advice to the OP. my post has nothing to do with you and never will so you have no need to respond. come correct.

@ OP. again its however much exp you have and how your playstyle is. if u have bad reaction time/ low exp yes dire is better. if u wanna actually be able to kill guardians and defensive players you will need a bit more dmg. if you [plan on going in zerg and fighting on the front line….none will help you. i suggest go SPVP and try out some amulets. see how it goes. youll get the hang out it!

Interceptor.2653:

Arganthium.5638:

Also, Venom Share is still going to be kinda sucky overall, IMO.

Nonsense. Venomshare — like all builds — has to put it into a position to succeed. If you’re in small group combat where people are fairly disciplined, it’s extraordinarily useful. Everyone talks about Residual Venom, but the real money is in Leeching Venoms and Venomous Strength.

Zacchary.6183:

That’s the keyword… “Functional”.

No, the key word is this one, from your post:

me

If your standard is “best and only the best for XYZ situation”, that’s cool. However, balance in WvW or otherwise is more than just one aspect; builds are about tradeoffs, and acceptable results. None of the “non-viable” builds are so far behind that they fail to perform.

srry ur wrong. tell u what… i challenge you to a fight. you run full venom share ill run build of my choice….and ill run naked. ya? ill spank ya 9/10 times prolly more. nuff said.

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

phaeris.7604:

I don’t understand where anet want thieves. They’re clearly not a support class, apart from venom share (a top tier trait), none of the thief abilities or weapon skills are group oriented.

The role of a thief is meant to be high single target damage and lots of escapes, this counters our very low hps/fragility. By nerfing stealth/vigor gain/introduction of abilities like sic em (really??? an ability designed specifically to negate thieves? Can we have an ability specifically to negate 30 clones or aoe condition spam??), they have eliminated this balance.

Now single target damage of pretty much every class is on par with the thief, yet they retain high armour/hp tables. I was up against a guardian who shredded my hitpoints with a few aoes, he didn’t even have to aim. To get the same damage i need to be in stealth and behind him.

None of our abilities really have utility, they’re just dps in another form. The only decent form of buff rip was nerfed into the ground.

The thief is great for killing up levels, or horrible players. Yet you go up against a well geared/played class of any other kind, chances are the effort you have to make as a thief will be 10x that of the other guy.

This whole post right here.

i 2nd this. prolly 13240932nd this actually.

p/d is a very defensive set.

Blind on Stealth
Heal in stealth
remove condi in stealth
Shadow strike gap creator
CND stealth+heal+blind+condi removal
dancing dagger keeps opponents slowed and away
immob keeps opponets pinned down
High hp
High toughness
high Healing

with all this…… thats pretty much standard…. id suggest using…

CARRION armor. it gives you atleast double dmg and going from 450 to over 1k on sneak attack really adds up. even normal auto attacks. you know how many sneak attacks you use and shadow shots>

if you are a new player yeah get that dire….. itll help a newer player stay alive much better.

mobility is low however i just use p/d p/d and on both daggers i use 50% engery on switch so every 8 secs i get one more evade…..that is basically the same as “energy on dodge trait” so now u dont have to spec into acrobats.

i run mug + slieght of hand for more healing and more dmg so power is better here.

basically run a dmg armor. its like telling a guardian to go shamans when hes using GS and S/F .. . . just not what he needs.

again all depends on your experience.

Arganthium.5638:

Here’s my take on different weapon sets atm:

P/P: never was viable, probably never going to be viable.

P/D: this is an okay option for WvW and PvE, but it lacks mobility which, IMO, is one of the primary reasons to play thief. Furthermore, the damage is kinda meh. This is only very rarely used in sPvP, simply because, there, it’s a bad weaponset. I do know a couple of thieves (xmtrvc/Damage Dolly comes to mind) who have used it with decent results however.

D/D: only really useful in WvW with the huge amount of NPCs and players. In sPvP, the required melee range is going to be a significant hamper. Furthermore, it really only has three usable weapon skills (auto, Heartseeker, and CnD), whereas D/P has five. For that reason, I personally believe D/D to be inferior to D/P, but I know that there are a lot of people that are zealous supporters of the D/D weaponset who love D/D builds a ton, so if you’re one of those people, then, by all means, play what you enjoy.

D/P: still a good weaponset, although it suffers all of the same problems that all stealth builds have always faced. However, all 5 skills are usable, so there’s something for you to take into consideration.

S/P: this used to be my main weaponset about a year ago. This weaponset is interesting because the #4 and #5 skills tend to be much more useful than those of S/D, but the first three skills (generally, the first three skills are considered the most important) lack synergy, which I think makes this weaponset overall slightly inferior to S/D. Specifically, there’s nothing between IS and Pistol Whip that makes them go hand-in-hand with one another, which isn’t true of S/D. Pistol Whip in and of itself is a kinda bad skill that only works effectively against less experienced players. Run into a good player, however, and he/she should be able to counter you effectively. Furthermore, there’s no really good area to aim for as far as S/P goes. For example, my S/D build goes for being able to use S/D and SB as your secondary, stealing lots of boons, and having maximum mobility (there’s nothing more fun than being able to use some combination of Shadowstep, IS, Infi Signet, Steal, and/or Infi Arrow to help a teammate who’s 3000 range away almost instantly), whereas builds like Jumper’s are going to focus on evading a ton while remaining in a close range. However, S/P doesn’t really seem to have much of a goal outside of just bursting your opponent and/or laying down a constant stream of damage, and it’s up to you and your opponent how that’s going to happen. It’s your choice though; I’ll just say that I dislike the lack of a strong overarching strategy or plan behind S/P, though that might just be an incorrect perception of the weaponset.

S/D- the specialty weaponset of players like Jumper, Lady Nag Nag, and me. As mentioned before, the 4 and 5 skills aren’t going to be quite as useful as they are for S/P (though 4 is good for catching fleeing opponents when you’re out of mobility tactics for yourself and 5 is good for stomping). However, there’s a lot of synergy between Infiltrator’s Strike/Return and Flanking Strike: they’re both skills that allow you to move quickly and fluidly. Furthermore, FS/LS also comes with a boonsteal, which is another nice tactic for you to have up your sleeve. With the recent nerfs to Infi Strike/Return, this weaponset has become less viable but is nonetheless still usable. This is definitely a weaponset where you’re going to want to have a very well-designed and well-tested build, however.

SB- not really so much a weaponset of its own as it is a utility weapon. Infi Arrow and Choking Gas are extremely useful, and the overall AoE and ranged abilities that you get from SB is hard to pass up.

So as far as individual weaponsets go, I’d rate their viability as following (not including SB):

1. D/P
2. S/D
3. S/P
4. D/D
5. P/D
6. P/P

just wanted to say the dmg on p/d is higher than on d/p ….if u are saying DPS….. but if ur saying Single hit dmg yes u r correct.

P/P: What i choose for dungeons. SoM+ricochet+RFI etc is great for healing and dmg and group play. i run this in fractals and get downed less than guards/warriors.

P/D: only has 2 damage skills Shadow strike and sneak attack. outside of that its all about survival. very deadly and dangerous build and IMO the best overall….but has a weakness against thieves but can be fixed with SoH and Scorp wire. Good in PVE as it can solo anything but not flashy.

D/P: Great roaming build but dont think about doing much else with this. Aoe and good players own this and actually hurts your team. BPS is the best thing about this build and the only thing really playable in team concept. TLDR: stick to roaming with this.

D/D: Fun Gank build but dont think about staying alive much. the bleed version is no good as they messed with the cast/aftercast and cant chain them fast enough. 1/4s evade for 1.25s skill. no bueno.

S/D: Too risky and dont feel like taking shadowstep RFI and infil signet and leave myself hanging bc it has no defensive ability. no BPS no gap creators nothing to sustain self. perhaps if AA was faster id still try this.

S/P: usable in PVE only. Wont be a true build in pvp until they unroot PW and revert IR. can be used in dungeons too .

SB: best group skill. those poison clouds are very pesky and if ur lucky enough to get close enough to drop some cluster bombs thats good too. 3 3 3 3 spam is a nice way in dungeons and WVW/PVP to get out of the aoe without dying but its not goign to do much dmg just by attacking. its the best backup weapon for wvw and arguably SPVP/TPVP.

S/S ….. this set….oh wait….thats wishful thinking

Dahkeus.8243:

Venom share builds have never really been solid builds and that’s still pretty much the case. The concept can sound appealing on paper, but when you consider the 360 range restriction, the 5 person cap, and the likelihood of losing out the benefit to either overhealing or just adding to the duration of a condition that’s removed an instant later, it just doesn’t pan out well in practice.

You also get no stun breaker or condi cleanse from venom skills, which is a pretty big disadvantage in PvP.

As for the heal itself, you’ll get much better personal healing from Withdraw (in addition to mobility and an evade), which has a 0 cast time. Even Hide in Shadows surpasses it in most situations because of the condi cleanse.

yeah. it can be used decently….kinda….sorta….in pve if u space em out…but still iwouldnt recommend it.. venoms are FAR from “there” despite what those anet peopl will say. if u dont wanna take our word for it. go ahead and waste hudred gold. and hours of yourlife. but d/p is playable evven tho there are no real troll builds left…..

Dahkeus.8243:

Travlane.5948:

Dahkeus.8243:

Travlane.5948:

you have to have the dmg set in place already…. i think thats the trick … and thieves have 0 aoe placed dmg that pulses :/

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Choking_Gas
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Caltrops

points up

re read earlier passages.

TLDR: no loot from those.

Points up You said there was no AoE damage that pulses. Those are AoE that pulse.

I really have no idea what your problem is. Cluster bomb and short bow auto attack alone is all you need to tag every mob in sight. Choking gas tags mobs for me…and I run a direct damage build, but it’s rarely if ever necessary since you can just cluster in the face of enemies.

And yes, I’ve done all the Orr events enough to make my eyes bleed on more than just my thief.

Tab target auto attack, run in circles, spam 2, loot. It’s really that simple.

There’s no special magical formula or hidden thief skill you’re missing. You don’t need some special build just for tagging mobs. You just run around, faceroll with your short bow, and nothing will tag mobs better than you except for a Guardian with a staff.

they dont pulse dmg.

Dahkeus.8243:

Travlane.5948:

you have to have the dmg set in place already…. i think thats the trick … and thieves have 0 aoe placed dmg that pulses :/

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Choking_Gas
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Caltrops

points up

re read earlier passages.

TLDR: no loot from those.

its about 15% less dmg or so.

i like assassin gear. i think its a lil underated. it allows you to drop fury skills which is very useful.

p/p ricochet crit build is quite useful. b est of all u only need 2 valk weapons and rest is beserker/assasin

you have to have the dmg set in place already…. i think thats the trick … and thieves have 0 aoe placed dmg that pulses :/

Dee Jay.2460:

P/P + Ricochet is great for boss encounters like Tequatl that have multiple point of attack because it allows the bullets to bounce between these individual points.

I’ve seen 15k Unloads on Tequatl during his vulnerability phase thanks to this.

But other than that the random and unpredictable nature make it less useful. However I’m always curious to see how consistent some of the traits works with unexpected abilities.

That’s something I like about GW2’s ability design.

p/p is best for fractals., bosses, farming. ricochet plus SOM + RFI + sig of agility

10 30 0 30

heres a short clip…i could put the whole one up but its just redundant. ull see what i mean spamming CB.

the best solution i think its to scale up the event. poison fields arent enough dmg to really get credit for loot but exp yes.

check it out.

http://youtu.be/5qkkDBeLRBE

im going to put up a video today. so hang tight and you can see

frans.8092:

Travlane.5948:

they die in .1 seconds. SB using cluster bomb is 1 sec minimum. math…no bueno. 0_o

Well, timing it properly would theoretically be able to land it just in time, but that might be practically unreliable.

Tripwire and needle trap do some damage when triggered, are they of use for your ability to tag foes?

i thought about this an tried it but uszually only 1 mob :? and they dont travel ontop of each other…usually in a line all coming into play about .2s after the preceding.

they die in .1 seconds. SB using cluster bomb is 1 sec minimum. math…no bueno. 0_o

frans.8092:

Is it an option to find smaller scaled group events?

ummi guess i could do then before reset…. but tis hard to then being earlier in day. after reset every server is just chuck full. i coudl always look for a party of guards/ aoe chars…

is there a consumable that does aoe? i know theres the golems but those are slow (the mini flying golems)….ill have to recheck.

signet of malice should only be used for lots of people or withdraw wil always out heal it.

signet of malice uses best…..

caltrops
poison field(shortbow 4)
cluster bomb
daggerstorm
ambush
unload+ricochet

ok guys i did some testing.

i use caltrops/poison field for about 24 kills and only got 3 loots. i let each pulse from 1 tick to 15 ticks. the bags that got dropped were from the higher number of tix. in melandru type event farming when there is so many people and so many fire ele powder summons you dont get more than 1 tick…. so the loot chance is low. perhaps the only way is to stick in a party and hope for the dmg of theirs to add up with yours.

i also tried doing duo farming mobs and the drop % was about 80-85% which is much better than 12.5% from the tix (would have been 0% if they were all 1-2 tix max).

when the HP of the mobs blinks for .1 secs and shortbow has about a full second of activation/animation time theres not much chance other than anticipating and spamming on spot but then its all luck.

i made some videos of these findings and ill make a 3rd one tnite when melandru is up with lots of people.

Dahkeus.8243:

Travlane.5948:

Dahkeus.8243:

Travlane.5948:

i dont think i explained myself well. yousee the mobs runningtoward you…… they are invulnerable until they reach their attack point…… at this “attack point” (like melandru 2nd beacon) there is a kitten load of symbols and fire ele powders used and caltrops and poison fields and many many many dozens of aoes pulsing on the ground. so finally when they reach this attack point they are able to be hit and no longer invulnerable. im standing right in the middle of it spamming 22 2 2 2 2 2 2 and still only lucky to hit 2 out of 10 bc their hp blinks gone bc of the dmg that is stacked up.

lets say there is 60 people there. each person casts 1-2 (call it 1.5) AOE pulses on ground plus there is 25 fire eles summoned. thats 115 AOES pulsing with dmg on the ground at the point of the mobs being able to be struck. now in ONE second these mobs are being hit for lets just say 500 damage per pulse to be conservative. so we have 115(aoe type stuff) x 500 dmg per pulse/hit etc which is a grand total of 57,500 hp worth of dmg when they only run about 12-15k ish (depending on mob). not to mention the spamming of auto attacks and weapon attacks.

since we dont have any of these aoe pulse types other than caltrops which wont give loot if its the only kskill used.

see what i mean now?

which skills do and dont give loot BY THEMSELVES and on what classes? why dont we have something we can just do to be lazy like other classes. all these other classes have all this passive defense (healing signet like etc) and passive dmg that just pulses in PVE.

Poison field where they go to or hit them as soon as they’re vulnerable.

Problem solved.

If tagging mobs is really that troublesome for you, then I’m not sure what to tell you. You’re talking about the most brainless aspect of the game. =P

what skill can you use that activates AND…yes AND….hits in under .1 seconds? link me and ill feel dumb. btw im sure you know poison/blind/caltrops doesnt give loot right? the problem is on anets. if i was on my guardian dropping symbols or my necro dropping marks that activate only on non invulnerable mobs …… id be getting 4x the loot.

how about you make a video of you at melandru with 60-80 people getting drops. i usually get about 100 ish drops there when theres less than 20 people. show us how its done. u will prolly say you dont have a recording program so its easy to downloand bandicam or fraps.

problem is on anets side not thieves. its a problem only hav on my thief. hrm….. and my thief is my main…. 4 legendaries full armor/accs/weapons ascended 10k ap . not a nub ….brah. come again.

Really? Is this where you’re going with the thread? Come on, tagging mobs with a short bow isn’t rocket science.

reading is even easier. plz re read. you are missing the problem.

Dahkeus.8243:

I have documented a film to explain to you the intricacies of tagging mobs. Enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0esK73JaDA

when you are ready to accept the challenge let me know.

Dahkeus.8243:

I have documented a film to explain to you the intricacies of tagging mobs. Enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0esK73JaDA

the thread was serious plz dont bring sarcasm. thanks.

Dahkeus.8243:

Travlane.5948:

i dont think i explained myself well. yousee the mobs runningtoward you…… they are invulnerable until they reach their attack point…… at this “attack point” (like melandru 2nd beacon) there is a kitten load of symbols and fire ele powders used and caltrops and poison fields and many many many dozens of aoes pulsing on the ground. so finally when they reach this attack point they are able to be hit and no longer invulnerable. im standing right in the middle of it spamming 22 2 2 2 2 2 2 and still only lucky to hit 2 out of 10 bc their hp blinks gone bc of the dmg that is stacked up.

lets say there is 60 people there. each person casts 1-2 (call it 1.5) AOE pulses on ground plus there is 25 fire eles summoned. thats 115 AOES pulsing with dmg on the ground at the point of the mobs being able to be struck. now in ONE second these mobs are being hit for lets just say 500 damage per pulse to be conservative. so we have 115(aoe type stuff) x 500 dmg per pulse/hit etc which is a grand total of 57,500 hp worth of dmg when they only run about 12-15k ish (depending on mob). not to mention the spamming of auto attacks and weapon attacks.

since we dont have any of these aoe pulse types other than caltrops which wont give loot if its the only kskill used.

see what i mean now?

which skills do and dont give loot BY THEMSELVES and on what classes? why dont we have something we can just do to be lazy like other classes. all these other classes have all this passive defense (healing signet like etc) and passive dmg that just pulses in PVE.

Poison field where they go to or hit them as soon as they’re vulnerable.

Problem solved.

If tagging mobs is really that troublesome for you, then I’m not sure what to tell you. You’re talking about the most brainless aspect of the game. =P

what skill can you use that activates AND…yes AND….hits in under .1 seconds? link me and ill feel dumb. btw im sure you know poison/blind/caltrops doesnt give loot right? the problem is on anets. if i was on my guardian dropping symbols or my necro dropping marks that activate only on non invulnerable mobs …… id be getting 4x the loot.

how about you make a video of you at melandru with 60-80 people getting drops. i usually get about 100 ish drops there when theres less than 20 people. show us how its done. u will prolly say you dont have a recording program so its easy to downloand bandicam or fraps.

problem is on anets side not thieves. its a problem only hav on my thief. hrm….. and my thief is my main…. 4 legendaries full armor/accs/weapons ascended 10k ap . not a nub ….brah. come again.

Maugetarr.6823:

I try to pre-place poison fields from SB. That way you get some credit (I believe) if people combo through it too.

if u JUST deal dmg thru poison field/caltrops you will NOT get loot. it has to be power based dmg or direct attack dmg. thieves have nothign like this.

the only fix they can do is add a pusle dmg to these 2 fields OR scale regular mobs up. scaling wuld be the best idea.

Hawkeye.9687:

@ Travlane
I take for granted that you play a Power spec and no way a condi spec right?

both dont work….they die in .1s. so unless we can drop a field…..that actually gives loot its dumb luck.

i dont think i explained myself well. yousee the mobs runningtoward you…… they are invulnerable until they reach their attack point…… at this “attack point” (like melandru 2nd beacon) there is a kitten load of symbols and fire ele powders used and caltrops and poison fields and many many many dozens of aoes pulsing on the ground. so finally when they reach this attack point they are able to be hit and no longer invulnerable. im standing right in the middle of it spamming 22 2 2 2 2 2 2 and still only lucky to hit 2 out of 10 bc their hp blinks gone bc of the dmg that is stacked up.

lets say there is 60 people there. each person casts 1-2 (call it 1.5) AOE pulses on ground plus there is 25 fire eles summoned. thats 115 AOES pulsing with dmg on the ground at the point of the mobs being able to be struck. now in ONE second these mobs are being hit for lets just say 500 damage per pulse to be conservative. so we have 115(aoe type stuff) x 500 dmg per pulse/hit etc which is a grand total of 57,500 hp worth of dmg when they only run about 12-15k ish (depending on mob). not to mention the spamming of auto attacks and weapon attacks.

since we dont have any of these aoe pulse types other than caltrops which wont give loot if its the only kskill used.

see what i mean now?

which skills do and dont give loot BY THEMSELVES and on what classes? why dont we have something we can just do to be lazy like other classes. all these other classes have all this passive defense (healing signet like etc) and passive dmg that just pulses in PVE.

weakest weapon in the game for thief….if it were real. dmg is really low. even lower than guardian id say. id have to check tho.

dont go out of your way to kill mobs or you only end up getting like -90% movement speed…. in a sense :P. the time you save with swiftness is counterbalanced by the time yous pend randomly killing mobs. its good for 1v1 roaming tho!!!!!

Ok im at boss farming like melandru and grenth etc etc. people are droping symbols and poison fields and caltrops and fire ele powders aoes and marks.

Problem: most of the mobs (90% to almost all of them) go from 100% to 0 in less than .1 seconds. you dont see the HP suck down it just blinks gone.

if there are 60 people or 70 , or 80 or even just 40…. they can each drop 1-2 forms of this kind of dmg and it kills before anyone gets a chance to hit them.

Question 1: i know caltrops wont give loot by itself or poison field from SB but what other skills from other classes wont/will etc. is there a link to gw2 site that says or how do u know?

Question 2: i like to use cluster bomb/daggerstorm. i get a few hits on each 1-2 and im good for loot but when other people do that aoe thing and pulse my CB is like a joke. as always thief is coming up short. how to get around this?

im very pro in wvw and pve tpvp etc….but this is on thing i just dont see how to get around as a thief. i know lots of tips including getting 2 stealth attacks from 1 utility and etc but this boggles me

callidus.7085:

I wonder how hard it would be (and if the community would like it) if instead of a damage threshold, there was a variety of factors that could contribute towards a mob tag such as reviving people within a certain radius of the mob, doing damage to the mob, granting to buffs to people within a certain radius of the mob etc. I kind of find it surprising that only doing damage is seen as being helpful when I would think reviving others and giving boons should be a rewarded play-style.

bingo. i couldnt have said this better myself.

very cool but not useful very much. i usually get 2 bounces about 90% of the time. VERY rare to get that third and whichever target you end up on is the one hit with the daggerstrike which is the only dmg part. not too useful. very cool tho

i use ricochet every day. wierd ill try that. do all of them dagger attack too?

shadow shot telepots 3 people? hUH?

aLovedhater.4096:

you cant speedhack in Gw2, thieves cant perma stealth either.
#trollpost

ive seen it. all kinds of diff classes just speed blinking forward and porting around map. some flying. 50% speed buff hacks. all kinds of wierdness. ive seen warrior have ele skills…. wierd stuff.

may i suggest playing one. go ahead…hop on a thief…get in that zerg. you will see how good you arent not being mean…just the truth. if u main on warrior/guardian u will be embarassed how bad you are when you finally play thief. thief takes skill. so we can be very good but still close to useless in zergs/bigger fights.

Im lvl 50 in fractals
we had a 48 49 59 also. leader had to leave for emergency. we all get booted or have to 4 man it.

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!?

as long as somebody else is same lvl leadership should transfer!

make a blue marker for party leader and make it transferable if somebody has to leave.

simple stuff guys.

TY

Lamuness.3570:

Travlane.5948:

if u want good…everything is boring for dugeons….

Yeah, unfortunately. I used to run P/P and all I did was 3333333333 lol. Sorry. But it is a good build.

yeah thats true. try utilize body shot more. cliffside boss it helps. helps on dredge boss. helps on all bosses really. saves your allies alot. when your team stacks. use skill 5 (black powder shot) x2 or 3-4x like me. then even if you have 20 enemies none of them are doing dmg for 8 seconds or so. BPS wait 1.5 s then BPS wait 1.5s then BPS or BPS BPS wait 2 sec BPS BPS. it allows your team to run a lil more dmg and go thru lvls SO FAST. the only skill i dont use much is head shot. . . in gw2 daze in pve isnt useful. so you are relaly utilizing 4/5 skills pretty hard. plus short bow poison/cluster and using disability for defence and slowing down dredge lvl boss…..

p/p SB is prolly the most usefull 2 sets for fractals. especialy at high lvls in my opinion my dream team:

1 thief with the build i posted
1 Mesmer
2 guardians dmg/defense
1 warrior
1 Engineer or necro

pfft ewww. every 8s max id say

sminkiottone.6972:

Travlane.5948:

team fights. WRONG. thief is on e ofthe 2 worst in teams….. if u look at total dmg in medium to large fightsm ixed with team productivity/skills used to help team or heals and buffs………. thief is last or tied for it. even with venom share bc hes used only once in 36-45 seconds then just auto attacking or dropping poison fields.

Thief is a dps class not a support one, the only thing thief needs to do is burst/stealth imo, if you want to support your team change class.

TryGoogleThis.9570:

sminkiottone.6972 Msg´ed you in game since i suppose you want to back that L2P. I am put more time and effort in thief then you ever will. So dont go around and say things you clearly too stupid to speak about.

Don’t be so aggressive man…

i agree thats what i was saying.

the best way to balance a class is give a rating to a few areas. Rate their total dmg output between all enemies, rate their buffs and fields for allies, rate their heals and dmg mitigation for allies, rate their defense so they can apply the 3 afformentioned areas.

once you rate these areas then average the out for a total class score. now im sure you will all do yours differently but wont be too far from the same.
score it from 0-100 for each section

Guardian
Dmg ouput (all enemies): 60/100
Buffs (all allies combined): 95/100
Dmg mitigation (all allies): 85/100
Survival (armor/hp etc): 90/100

THIEF
Dmg ouput (all enemies): 70/100 (yes 70 its mostly single target)
Buffs (all allies combined): 65/100 (would be lower w/o thrill and venomshare)
Dmg mitigation (all allies): 55/100 ( * See Below*)
Survival (armor/hp etc): 70/100

• Only gave thief 55 on dmg mitigation bc i was counting only times that hes being productive, same as i did for guardian. cant be productive in group/zerg if you are invis hiding/healing. If i counted invis i would give him an 70 or MAYBE 75 **

AVERAGE SCORE FOR GUARDIAN: 82.5 out of 100
AVERAGE SCORE FOR THIEF: 65 out of 100

• This is of course counting only group play and not 1 v 1 as i have yet to see a relevant 1v1 part of the game that has any “consequence” to it, which means if you kill 1v1 roamer it helps team/guild/world server……. in spvp/tpvp it can kinda help but usually its group play. 8 people per team and only a few nodes to capture… no reason for 1v1 really.

team fights. WRONG. thief is on e ofthe 2 worst in teams….. if u look at total dmg in medium to large fightsm ixed with team productivity/skills used to help team or heals and buffs………. thief is last or tied for it. even with venom share bc hes used only once in 36-45 seconds then just auto attacking or dropping poison fields.

i agree shortbow 5 leaves something to be desired….nobody has ever used it as a blind skill….. only escape.

even if u cant port to location…it hsould leave an AOE blind. thatwould be great for WVW and give it a totally diff use defensively

in harder dungeons i don tuse that build.

0 30 0 20 20

ricochet
long reach
pain response
pistol mastery
practiced tolerance
executioner
vigorous recovery/assassins retreat

signet of malice (withdraw for bosses)
roll for init
sig of agility (amazing for you AND team)
shadowrefuge/SS
daggerstorm (Thieves guild for bosses)

Sig of restoration
sig of fire
sig of bloodlust (shortbow)

P/P and shortbow

Runes are choice

build works amazingly in dungeons with ricochet you can top 20k dmg with 1 unload. you can keep doling out dmg while still healing and plenty of energy/initiative. works gr8.

Im lvl 50 fractals btw.

how about this.

PAIN RESPONSE:
Cooldown: 5s
Effect: Remove poison/bleed/burn if you are struck and under 25% hp.

problem solved. a slightly beefed up version of an engi trait.

it just needs to add a 2 sec dodge at the end that will give you enough time to reestablish yourself and knowwhere enemy is.

and you cant gauge a skills value on a set of runes. you have to look at it by itself. and as it sits its the worst stun in game.

OMG ALL BUFFS EVERY 45s?!?!? WOW!………………….. not. its only for 5secs….usless. you get 1 hit out of it or 1 hit recieved…… NOT a game changer. the removing conditions would be awesome with it if it were instant….ubt its just ok when its almsot 2s cast.