Guild Wars 2

exactly kekuso.
the problem is anet didnt make venom share to make venoms usable…. they made venoms to make venomshare usable…..and not op.

its like the trait came before the utilities….. such nonsense

if this venom were made and no venomshare in game…u bet it’d b good!

cant be a passive aoe ground pulse either..im pretty sure.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Travlane.5948:

yes…it does end b4 cluster bomb hits.

No it doesn’t. People like Tessa Avery use this simple combo – all the time. This is short bow 101 here. By the time it reaches the target where you want to detonate, there is about a remaining 0.25 second immob on them.

Just try it. No hypothetical here. Just – try – it.

AS I SAID…… i was correct.

i did it very fast as youwill see in video. 900 range 650 400 200 ….tests were done at those ranges.. THE ONLY cluster bomb that had 0 chance of being evaded (meaning while immob was still up) was the one under 200. at 900 range he had about 9/10ths of a second after immob wore off to move. the rest wasnt to much of a difference prolly .33 seconds faster each but the problem was the delay in AFTERCAST of immob on surprise shot ADDED to the activation time of cluster bomb…… whichis wher eyou get the immob time wasted basically.

check out that 101 class again…..if u like ill let u take my notes

all joking aside….until i see a video of you proving me wrong. cant really argue. also… there was no traits used 0/0/0/0/0 and no food obv. no sigils and i used scholar runes.

http://youtu.be/rdLuXJxqfNY

Chicago Jack.5647:

Travlane.5948:

yes…it does end b4 cluster bomb hits.

No it doesn’t. People like Tessa Avery use this simple combo – all the time. This is short bow 101 here. By the time it reaches the target where you want to detonate, there is about a remaining 0.25 second immob on them.

Just try it. No hypothetical here. Just – try – it.

i have an education. perhaps u need to audit the class lol all joking aside ur wrong. i could make an instructional video or just one showing some visuals…. if u like.

Bazzoong.7145:

Healing signet and adrenallin heals alone will completely outheal short bow damage. You will never get a warrior with a decent build to 60% useing a shortbow.
Not even in a million years,you can not slowly wear down warriors, their passive heals alone will screw you.

i want anet to come out and say warrior is the teachers pet. cmon. compare their NEW HEAL and healing signet to our new heal and our SoM.

then tell me its not their pet?

Lamuness.3570:

This sounds effective but also sounds pretty boring lol.

Alice, running all those Cleric’s doesn’t get you into trouble? You have a ton of heal power and enough toughness, but you have 11k hp? I can’t imagine this. Unless you were planning on full support?

if u want good…everything is boring for dugeons….

p/p sb
0-30-0-20-20
exucutioner
practiced tolerance
pistol mastery
long reach
ricochet
vigorous recovery
pain response

sigil of restoration
sigil of fire
sigil of bloodlust (bow)

full zerk
valk weapons

signet of malic
roll for init
signet of agility
shadow refuge/SS
daggerstorm/TG(for bosses)

build works amazing for fractals. lots of heals (passive) few tricks …u get 2 sneak attacks from shadow refuge if done right.

Revoke.1425:

Travlane.5948:

told this to another guy.

this is the ACRO-BATICS line. physical movements. not stealth not strong muscular stability. its flexible agility ….. hence why i mentioned what i did.

then I suggest a flanking strike animation with break stun and 1/2 sec evade

something like an acrobat right?

frans.8092:

magom.3275:

… is just an utility skill in a elite one space. …

Actually, that is a good thing, considering it’s competitors. It even has a utility skill cooldown.

how could it be more than kitten the skill is WORSE than devourer venom. even deverour you get 2 strikes off the bat.

weakness 4 init clusterbobm 3 init . 7/12 or about 60% of your init gets 1 good attack plus poison for 4 secs and MAYBE weakness but probably not bc nobody stands it it for 3 seconds (after you cast poison plus CB flight time…nobody gets hit for weakness unless huge zerg not paying attention).

ask another class if they would waste skills 2 3 4 and 5 on weaponset 1 for 1 good damage attack plus poison with a small chance at 4s of weakness. i thinkthey’d say no.

i do like shortbow dont get me wrong…just needs a lil bit of love

Chicago Jack.5647:

Travlane.5948:

by the time you use cluster bomb…. the suprise shot has already worn off :P

No it actually doesnt. Try it out for yourself.

Travlane.5948:

talking about? short bow is good for poison field and 3 spam. sometimes cluster bomb at close range but nothing special.

You need to experiment more with shortbow.

Travlane.5948:

stealth attack (function)
auto attack (speed or dmg)
infil arrow (function or range)

all need to be beefed up…but just a tad…..

No they don’t. Auto attack is terrible in a 1 on 1 fight against anyone not dumb enough to not strafe, true, but it still doesn’t need to be buffed – it gets about 1.2k hits on criticals. Ultimately though shortbow shines as a team support weapon.

yes…it does end b4 cluster bomb hits. the immob is only 2s while CB is a 3 second hang time plus a .75s (arguably .5s if not activated other skills prior) activation time.

so tell me how 2 = 3.75

even if ur right on top its a close call…..prolly will hit if u are that close but theres better single target weapons…… :P and especially combos

told this to another guy.

this is the ACRO-BATICS line. physical movements. not stealth not strong muscular stability. its flexible agility ….. hence why i mentioned what i did.

FeelsAlright.5860:

rjinx.1378:

Problem:
There are major issues with this trait that most of the thieves are already aware of, I believe one of the larger problems is that Anet is not looking at this trait the same way we are.
What anet wants:
They want it to simply move the thief out of harms way once stunned/dazed.

What thieves want from it:
Break the stun! while being less disorienting

as it stands, the issues are globally bad:
DAZED: bad in spvp, a thief headshot sends you flying away
FEARED: you shadow step away, gain swiftness, and run even FASTER away.
LAUNCHED/KNOCKED DOWN/KNOCKED BACK: 50% chance are you do an instant shadow step in place that is not even noticeable. 50% chance you shadow step away BEFORE the launch, and land even further away bouncing.
SINK/FLOAT: still does not break the SINK/FLOAT, and usually shadow steps toward the target.

solution:

1. Remove swiftness, shadow step away, BREAK THE STUN, and grant 5 seconds of stability.
   or
2. Remove swiftness, shadow step away while giving stealth for the thief for 3 seconds.

Still teleports you which is the worst part about the trait. This is bad. It needs to just pop immune, give stabilility/vigor.

if that was in SA or trickery…. eh maybe. but this is ACRO-batics. ACRO ACRO. has to be a physical spectical thing check out what i wrote above. just an idea.

Hard to catch
cooldown: 30 seconds
triggers: any cc type
effection: teleport thief in a random direction 600 range away, followed by a roll/cartwheel to backflip or w.e ninja like skill (like withdraw) that lasts 2.25 seconds (gives you enough time during roll to re-acclimate yourself to your surroundings and where your enemy(ies) is(are).
bonus: removes 1 random CC and gives swiftness for 8 seconds.
does this sound more like a skill you would name “hard to catch”
btw anet ill send you my resume

Incurafy.6329:

Butch.4957:

I guess you play a ranger or something else because thieves do not have a fire field AoE. Keep in mind that most other classes only have a few seconds of stealth so it ends quickly and that could be the cause of u leaving stealth. We have a poison field AoE and i think that might take us out of stealth (never really tried that, always had more important skills to use while in stealth) but that is not part of your original question.

No it doesn’t because it doesn’t apply any power based direct damage, the same goes for Caltrops. The stolen Engineer skill Throw Gunk is an example of a field that does direct damage which is why it applies revealed.

it shouldnt….notwhile its on ground anyway. they need to change it back/fix

Hard to catch

cooldown: 30 seconds
triggers: any cc type
effection: teleport thief in a random direction 600 range away, followed by a roll/cartwheel to backflip or w.e ninja like skill (like withdraw) that lasts 2.25 seconds (gives you enough time during roll to re-acclimate yourself to your surroundings and where your enemy(ies) is(are).
bonus: removes 1 random CC and gives swiftness for 8 seconds.

does this sound more like a skill you would name “hard to catch”

btw anet ill send you my resume

Chicago Jack.5647:

Some of the best thieves know how to use their shortbow for more than just pressing 5. Steal + clusterbomb is strong. Choking gas is just butter on a downed target or anyone else who has insane health regen. One of the most critical aspects of fighting a warrior is to apply a constant source of poison, when he is not in his kitten mode berserker stance, by making sure you interrupt his combustive shot and signet of rage (if it already hasnt been popped) and avoiding his other burst skill.

Immobilization on surprise attack is really strong. For example allows for a free clusterbomb shot on a thief who just used blackpowder. Its main purpose, at least for me, is for a free steal item hit (basilisk venom does this too when applied to a target via backstab – lets face it, nearly all the times you should be using bassi is when invis due to the long cast time and the reveal below your health bar). Simply hit the target with immob, port to him with preferably shadow shot, but infiltrator arrow can be used as well to blind the target, then use your steal item (just the ele steal alone hits for about 4.5k – not to mention ridiculously good the guardian and necro steal). Finally, with the added initiative gain, 3 spam gives you an extra disabling shot use.

Shortbow is a great team support weapon and it’s fine.

Rafahil.2857:

[…]the whole weapon set doesn’t even have access to stealth.

The blast finisher on 2 can be used with blackpowder. Not used often, but just saying. Most of the time, Im in shortbow when Im low on health. I also bring hide in shadows.

by the time you use cluster bomb…. the suprise shot has already worn off :P what are you talking about? short bow is good for poison field and 3 spam. sometimes cluster bomb at close range but nothing special.

stealth attack (function)
auto attack (speed or dmg)
infil arrow (function or range)

all need to be beefed up…but just a tad…..

Rarnark.5623:

Stooperdale.3560:

Shortbow is generally fine and doesn’t need breaking. With the latest initiative change you can pretty much spam the cluster bombs all the time. If you want higher single target dps then use a single target dps weapon!

^

I would say shortbow is the best designed weapon in the game. Don’t fix what’s not broken.

if u dont wanna change ….it …drasticall…there still needs to be 3 fixes no matter what

1) increase speed of auto attack
2) -1 Initiative on Infil Arrow or move to 1200 range or add 1/4 aoe daze
3) do something real with surprise shot…it sux.

i dont think it needs bleeds for rapid fire. cant cluster bomb “carry the weight” for that one?

it needs 20% vulnerability for 10 seconds added onto it allong with 2s immob….

why 20% and why 10s? bc SB has 0 access to stealth and should reward the utility use to get it

s/p isnt playable ….. the fix to PW isnt enough to make me play it. ill play sp if the revert IR and unroot PW. until then its a waste of init. u only get 2 hits before they move.

Reikou.7068:

Travlane.5948:

Arganthium.5638:

Actually, if you look at his games, many of his opponents seem to have that “flight” idea programmed into their minds mixed with a half-hearted attempt to fight back. Many of them also seem to ignore targeting him completely, and their combat skills are relatively lackluster. Furthermore, his build seems extremely suspect, which, presumably, means that he’s even luckier with his opponents than was implied before.

i hate to be the one to say “bad opponents” on a video as it makes me feel like a hater…. but he is right here. seen some of his live play…i keep saying WTF is that other thief/player doing. really? why did he do that…wow. but thats me. idk.

Perhaps so. I’ve never really watched him play, so I can’t comment too much on that. Perhaps its true, perhaps its not.

I’m simply saying that if Sizer is able to pull it off, other thieves should be able to do so as well. and even if Sizer is “an outlier in the statistic,” it doesn’t mean that the build is bad. It just means that everyone else needs to L2P.

If the day comes that S/D Evasion can really no longer be played at top level, then I will rephrase my statement.

FeelsAlright.5860:

Except NO other class is balanced in that way. It’s all balanced by the general population. Why should thief be any different?

No other class is balanced this way has more to do with the fact that anet’s balance team is incredibly incompetent and doesn’t know how they want to balance the game, than it being a good game-balance philosophy.

mayb e so. but why is thief the only class that L2P is such an issue? why does everything have to be the most amazing player to make it work? see what i mean? even average players can make warrior/guardian/mesmer etc work in spvp/tpvp/wvw. its all passive

bettadenu.5483:

The thing is we just aren’t as effective as other classes and that ArenaNet doesn’t realize it makes us mad.

arena net thinks 1 v 1 is everything. just have to utilize shortbow spam auto attack

all a guy has to do is dodge 2x on an opening attack (even with thieves guild) and its game over for the thief. all but maybe 1-2 strikes of venom are gone and no utils left. 3 evades that are successful is def the ruiner of this build.

Urejt.5648:

I think venoms are not viable becouse they are too dependant on luck and rng. Dont get me wrong. Venom build are strong, but only in one out of three situations. Thief iwth venoms will miss all his venoms in two out of three duels.

you forgot to put an asterisk.

will miss most venoms on 2/3 duels against a decent to good or better player

• this is under the given that most classes have blocks,invuln, multiple dodges, minions/pets/clones/phantasms that are in way, evade skills etc etc etc**

so those of you making fun of this guy….. :P thinkg about it…hes right.

Oxygen.5918:

Travlane.5948:

d/d regular burst can kill more people per minute…BY ALOT. this condi burst is only good for less than 2 people per minute and totall useless between kills.

plz keep it in perspective or the devs will get a lil crazy and nerf more stuff for no reason.

P/D is probably one of the least utility reliant thief weapon set. D/d is a lot more squishy as well, so maybe you should get a perspective.

the build the guy was runnign was p/d direct dmg with givers runes and leech venoms…. its a quick burst down build and is only really good every 36-45 seconds. after that its all just sneak attack and CND.

i play p/d mostly in wvw an spvp/tpvp. thing is ….p/d is a nice defensive set BUT….it cant survive soley on CND…. u need to trait it for BLIND AOE on stealth….remove condis on stealth….and heal in stealth or its really not reliable defense for CND. p/d defense comes from stealth (condi versions) and higher HP. the build the guy in the OP was talking about has none of those bc hes runnign venomous auroa, leeching venoms, residual venoms, Quick venoms, and beserker gear….. so there is no room for high hp or the normal defense skills.

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOooooo . . . . as i said its a 1 hitter quitter build. kill 1 opponent and share your venoms first…then ur useless until the recharge. no room for improvisation either so its pretty standard.

yes u can still CND sneak attack but without ricochet your are not really helping a group more than every other class could. its a fun roaming build and as i said…. hope the DEVS/ANET dont get the wrong idea like its OP.

if you could trade (in wvw) a 1 shot kill every 90 seconds but not have any other skills….. it would be strong but not OP. same concept here. he can burst somebody down fast….but after that everything he uses is on cooldown.

Basilisk venom
devourer venom
Ice Drake venom
skelk venom
spider venom

these are allpopped and on cooldown immediately after thieves guild. if he didnt pop thieves guild and then use all these….there is no chance of him melting the guy like the OP said.

so you think he is going to be able to help alot and survive with no swiftness no aegis…no blocks or invulnerablity…. no defense no nothign? just CND and sneak attack? heh….no.

no longer viable.

d/d regular burst can kill more people per minute…BY ALOT. this condi burst is only good for less than 2 people per minute and totall useless between kills.

plz keep it in perspective or the devs will get a lil crazy and nerf more stuff for no reason.

Arganthium.5638:

Reikou.7068:

FeelsAlright.5860:

You can’t post a video of sizer and say it represents most of the population. He is literally on the BEST sPvP team EU atm. And is probably one of the best S/D thieves atm as well (since I haven’t seen anything from Jumper in a long time). Sizer is an outlier in the statistic.

actually it means that every other thief that can’t do what Sizer does simply needs to L2P. Sizer proves the build still has the potential to be good.

Balance should only be tweaked for players at the highest-level of play, because at any other level of play, it is simply a L2P issue. And while it is nice to have a semblance of balance while you are learning to play, it shouldn’t be a priority for balancing the game.

Actually, if you look at his games, many of his opponents seem to have that “flight” idea programmed into their minds mixed with a half-hearted attempt to fight back. Many of them also seem to ignore targeting him completely, and their combat skills are relatively lackluster. Furthermore, his build seems extremely suspect, which, presumably, means that he’s even luckier with his opponents than was implied before.

i hate to be the one to say “bad opponents” on a video as it makes me feel like a hater…. but he is right here. seen some of his live play…i keep saying WTF is that other thief/player doing. really? why did he do that…wow. but thats me. idk.

Arganthium.5638:

Jumper.9482:

Next thing you know, they’re going to remove the daze on headshot because “we didn’t like players using it to deal 400dmg from a distance. Don’t worry though, the way you use it will not change”.

….What?

This has essentially been ANet’s logic over the past few months. For example:

JonPeters.5630:

Infiltrator’s Return
The thing I have heard the second most discussion regarding. This is a big change to this skill, but we beleive it is a necessary one. In many cases this is not going to matter. There are only 2 situations where this is a truly impactful change.
1) It stops you from using this skill while stunned, which puts more burden on Sword/Dagger thieves saving their stun breakers. This is the kind of gameplay we want to encourage because it puts more risk in using a rewarding skill like Infiltrator’s Strike.
2) Mostly in PvP, this skill can no longer be used by S/D thieves to teleport stomp someone. This is actually the more impactful moment as it occurs more often, but I think it puts the burden on these players to run a second weapon set that can help them in these situations (OH pistol for instance.)

Which is absolutely absurd; either way, it was just as able to be countered as any other teleport stomp.

Of course, that’s not to say that their first statement about IR being a “LOLstunbreakerz” is any more valid.

1) It stops you from using this skill while stunned, which puts more burden on Sword/Dagger thieves saving their stun breakers. This is the kind of gameplay we want to encourage because it puts more risk in using a rewarding skill like Infiltrator’s Strike style of play, like melee.

Because, honestly, the only reason that warrs hated the skill was because they couldn’t burst thieves for 5-10k damage at 300 range- at least, not quite as often. On the other hand, though, Mesmer lockdown builds could still function the same way they were designed to do so, and Hambow builds (which didn’t seem to have much of a burst anyways- they just seek to do lots of damage while simultaneously keeping you locked down) still were able to easily crush thief. Just to quote one more thing I’ve written about the subject,

Arganthium.5638:

Stunbreaker- not really. Usually it wasn’t far enough away to count as a stun breaker, and even if it was, you’d usually have to spend 5 initiative total to get back into the battle. The point of stuns, however, is to lock down the opponent, keeping him/her from doing anything. This has a variety of uses, but the one that has been most (ab?)used by ANet and, in particular, Warriors, is using stuns to keep an opponent from reacting to a high-damage attack, or high-damage attacks. Since basically every warrior skill is high-damage (well, many, many of them are), this has tended towards being the strategy for most warrs. The process simply becomes

1. Stun
2. Burst
3. Clean (ie use utilities, cleansing ire, etc)
4. Repeat

Which, unlike similar patterns in the game, deals far more damage overall and/or allows the player using the pattern to absorb massive amounts of damage at the same time.

However, the necessary idea is that, in order for this cycle to work, one must be able to use his or her melee attacks while the opponent is stunned (melee tends to do the most damage). By being able to use infi return, we were able to break this cycle, which did not in fact “completely destroy the warrior” or anything they’ll tell you, but rather countered that particular method of play, forcing warriors to find a different and less comfortable way to play their builds.

On the other hand, look at Lockdown mesmers. Their goal is not necessarily to burst you into the ground while attacking you, but rather to negate some of your damage by keeping you unable to react. Against these, Infi Return was near useless, except in situations where the shadowstep would take you farther away than the 1200 range on a mes’ weapons would allow, but even then, that was a fairly minor nuance.

As such, I would not, in fact, call infi return a stunbreaker, but rather a counter to a particular, cyclical pattern that must be itself countered by a different method of play.

i love how he says “put more risk on using a rewarding skill like infiltrators strike”

infiltrators strike is SUPER low dmg and a gap closer….and only a temporary one at that. so for 3 init u close a gap and do 1 sec immob which is usually only usefull for 2v1s to finish a runner. i mean yes its usefull but the rewarding part is IR….not IS….

out last supply crate and ur good.

Doggie.3184:

1200 Range Trait. Larger Shortbow AoE Trait. Would match what other classes get.

this would be great for pistol/SB….would be long overdue and fair!

Auesis.7301:

Travlane.5948:

ahh lets assume u play thief .

Yes, let’s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_-lcZ4bWAU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y3izc58BUI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zgFsfblETU

heh.

video 1. COE….. obv easy. slow attacks . plus using blinds
video 2. TA…. blinds. not dodges.
video 3. HoTW blinds. daggerstorm+SoM…..

everything you do in this video the classes i mentioned above could do with one hand on the mouse alone just walking in and clicking a few skills iwthout dying. these videos hadnothing to do with evade. survivability? yes. evades ? no.

pls show a video of you soloing bosses in fractals? firestorm/berseker/mossman/ice boss/dredge boss. cmon show something real…. that nonsense above any nub can do :P literally.

as i said….evades are good for slow EVEN INTERVAL attacking enemies. the only reliable one is disabling shot. if you are at MAI using evades but not using disabling shot…. u WILL die….. and i dont mean standing between the circles being clever i mean dodging. try dodge mais shadow step. need like .15 reaction to avoid.

evades are nice but you have to see the future to make them truly count as survivability. evades are best for big attacks. not this uber survival skill you mentioned. im not attacking you with my comments but this whole “thieves are beast bc of evades” idea. during evades we do 0dmg. with every other classes’ survivability they deal dmg while using their defensive capabilities (high hp/high armor/blocks/protection/aegis/reflect/clones/spirits/minions/necro HPbar/ etc etc x100 lol.

Auesis.7301:

I should also point out that at no point in your “calculations” did you account for mob attack frequency and telegraphy, which is exactly why your “vulnerable time” matters for absolutely naught. Pistol Whip and dodges alone will keep you alive against encounters that can’t be negated via just Black Powder spam, easily. It’s even simpler against bosses like Ginva who has huge telegraphed attacks that can easily be prepped with infinite Flanking Strikes. See videos above.

Like Erebus said, if you’re “spamming” dodges and evasive skills you’re doing it wrong. So, so wrong.

yyyes. i did. i said most mobs attack at regular slow intervals. the newer bosses attack faster and hit harder. old bosses still hit hard but not as fast.

Aberrant.6749:

I would like to see this, but IMO there are a lot more important things than updating class animations.

same thing i said….

+1
+1
+1

should worry about fixing thief first :P

Auesis.7301:

Travlane.5948:

Auesis.7301:

Going to have to agree that Thief is actually one of the easiest classes to stay alive with in PvE, even against bosses. Once you know their attacks you can basically not even get touched through timing PWs and other damage avoiding attacks. Heck, bosses like the Archdiviner at 49, I just run D/D and S/P and stay right on top of him. They have no AI variation – you can just get in to a pattern and job done.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

guardian/warrior/mesmer/ranger are all better!

They aren’t. You’re just not very good at it then. Sorry.

Defenses mean nothing when you can dodge or avoid all damage, and Thief excels at doing so, far beyond anything else. This is amplified multiple times over by the fact that mobs are stupid and can’t change up their attack patterns with such a limited array of skills and simple AI that just triggers them as soon as cooldowns expire.

dodge? really? ahh lets assume u play thief . we all know bosses = 1 hitter quitters for us….we dead after 1 hit.

that said lets look at our evades.

death blossom: 1/4s evade on a 1.25 sec skill. 80% vulnerable time.
FS/LS combo: 1/2s evade for a total of 2.5s between evades. 80% vulnerable time.
Pistol Whip: 1/2 second evade on a 1-1.25s (debatable) skill . 50-66% vulnerable time
Withdraw: 3/4s evade on a 1s skill. 25% vulnerable time.
Roll for Init: 3/4s evade on a 1s skill. 25% vulnerable time.
Disabling Shot: almost full evade. <5-10% vulnerable time.
Dodge evades: about 10-15 vulnerable time before actual dodge occurs (debatable)

so your best bet is RFI/Withdraw/Disabling shot if you are going to claim what you are claiming. out of those 3 only disabling shot its worth mentioning bc the others are a minute cooldown and not reliable while the other needs to be used as a heal more often than an evade so the evade is a bonus not actual damage mitigation response tool.

the other skills are helpful but not going to keep you alive at a boss. even when a thief goes to the final boss with p/d carrion full defense build he is still a 2 shot kill where guardians take hits for days. warriors. mesmers clones keep the focus off them etc etc. (talking about firestorm/berserker and bosses like)

evade spam = short term (2-5 seconds) of survivability. if its a boss where only 1 is there andregular slow attackintervals yeah its not bad. but when its a hard boss or like a dungeon boss ormultiple bosses or for that case multiple enemies…. it doenst help being able to evade.

evades do not equal warrior/guardian/ele/mesmer survivability. id trade evades on 3/4’s of all thoes skills for aegis protection invulnerability and blocks. yes plz.

Auesis.7301:

Going to have to agree that Thief is actually one of the easiest classes to stay alive with in PvE, even against bosses. Once you know their attacks you can basically not even get touched through timing PWs and other damage avoiding attacks. Heck, bosses like the Archdiviner at 49, I just run D/D and S/P and stay right on top of him. They have no AI variation – you can just get in to a pattern and job done.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

guardian/warrior/mesmer/ranger are all better!

nice video tho. still fun to gank

watch anet nerf this now and say its too OP even tho you ran like more than you fought…. they wont even notice that.

ick. ick ick.

running with no defense. no different than d/d signet gank build. just venom style

IF you break stun and ONLY if…i could see this working.

if ur are rooted or immobed or knocked down you should stay so when u return. but stun should break and cost 4 init >

ONLY PROBLEM is….. if you dont have 4 init you cant use return…even for the gap creation.

best way to do it is just leave it the way it was pre patch. the gap creation is better than nothing.

roamzero.9486:

It’s a terrible skill. All the pull skills should function like the Engie one (the only one close to being reliable), but with different graphical effects to fit the skill descriptions.

its an AWESOME SKILL….when used in 1v1. roaming too. otherwise iw ouldnt use it in hilly areas or corners etc.

IN ORDER TO FIX SCORPION WIRE….

1) Fix it so the terrain rarely ever messes with an obstruction
2) Make the wire fire 2x faster
3) Make it cause cripple for 4 seconds
4) Fix it so that every hit pulls them to you no matter of a lip of an edge or whatever. 1 hit = 1 pull 100% of the time.

yup thats all it takes.

Excalibur.9748:

Clumsy.6257:

Excalibur.9748:

Clumsy.6257:

Excalibur.9748:

I find warrior to be much squishier than thief

You’re like the only person who thinks warrior is squishier than thief. I’m starting to suspect you’re sanduskel’s alt.

its all about perspective, thief = invincible in nearly all trash mob situations (dredge being the only exception) plus the massive ar(censor)senal of evades, 30+ seconds of party-wide stealth, I don’t see how you could think thief is squishier than warrior

Blind only works on trash…and they’re called trash for a reason, cuz they really are trash.
Disabling shot has delay due to aftercast, it’s not a very reliable evade. Same thing with flanking strike. IR was just nerfed. I’d rather have the high HP, armor, and healing signet instead of these unreliables evades.
Stealth is useful for skipping trash…..but skipping content is boring and not something I like doing anyways.
I don’t see how you can think warrior is squishier than thief.

1. Why are you using disabling shot?
2. While trash dies fast, warrior takes damage on trash while thief does not
3. IR????
4. Flanking strike/pistol whip are incredibly reliable
5. Hp is irrelevant, damage can be avoided
6. Armor is irrelevant, damage can be avoided
7. If damage can’t be avoided your not doing it right

PW has 0.5s activation time. That’s not what I’d call reliable. Same thing with flanking strike. Made worse by having to wait for aftercast time.
Dodge is a lot more reliable than either of those.
Any damage a thief can avoid, a warrior can. Those weapon skill evades are not very reliable for avoiding all damage. A warrior still has the mitigation advantage here.
IR = infiltrator’s return
Difference is warrior can actually take this damage while thief can’t.
Disabling shot is useful for kiting champions but I don’t use it a lot. I thought you used shortbow vs liadri. Are you saying you didn’t use disabling shot?
I don’t know what kind of easy content you’re doing but you can’t avoid all damage.

Besides, even if it was possible to avoid all damage, that doesn’t seem like something I want to do to maximize DPS. Anytime you dodge that’s damage lost.

i really have to agree here. some people are starting to like PW….but i say they just like it BETTER than before. not like it in general. .5 sec activation time is way to long. should be near .25 which gives people a chance to dodge…not twice enough time.

Clumsy.6257:

Excalibur.9748:

Dempsey.8760:

Excalibur.9748:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Once the optimal is known, there is only one viable.

Optimal for what?

Let me answer for you – optimal for an organized group for a speed run.

I only PUG so that full zerk thing will never be optimal for me. I go in a PUG with the intent to be able to solo everything even if something goes wrong.

Did you even kill liadri? Berserker was the best gear for killing her. Anet makes it very obvious they berserker is superior to all other stats in PvE.

Yep, berserker was not the best for Liadri. P/D condi was the best and almost noone used berserker for doing the achievement with 8 orbs.

I just did a pug AC story and then AC1/2 in full zerk with 2 lvl 48’s and a 35 had little to no problems. I just explained everything clearly and they listened, being nice and helping people will get you a lot further than your “survivability” (which means nothing in this games PvE).

I Liadri in full zerk and got every achievement, that fight only separated those who could figure out fights and those that leans on the crutch that comes in the form of tankyness.

With a thief?

Just for the record I was talking about thief only, as zerk warrior is still tankier than a PVT thief. So going by your logic, playing a warrior is like relying on a crutch.

You say that likes it hard to not get downed on a full zerker thief. And tankiness is an illusion, having spent close to 1k hours on my warrior(s) and close to 1.5k hours on my thieves I can say that in equivalent gear (zerker+scholars), I find warrior to be much squishier than thief. If you think thief is squishy you should work on your playstyle.

thats more than 35% of your waking life if you started playing when gw2 came out. and thats rounding up to 14 months of release. 35% of your waking life? yyyyyyouch.

evilapprentice.6379:

Necrotize.2974:

Venoms are best in a VENOM build(go figure). Hide in Shadows is best in a STEALTH build(again, go figure) and Withdraw is best in any situation that does not require stealth or venoms. Saying one is definitively better than the others in every situation is simple minded and very arrogant.

Venom’s being best in a venom build makes complete sense. Venom’s being Underpowered outside of a venom build is the problem most thieves have with venoms.

HiS and Withdraw are solid heals on their own – they can be strengthened with traits but they are worth taking on their own. Skelk venom is not worth taking without investing 50-60 points in specific trait lines and dedicating 3-5 traits just to making venoms worth it. That is the problem thieves are having with the new heal – it’s the opposite of versatile, it’s useful in 1 very very specific spec which takes alot of coordination to make worth taking, does nothing to mitigate conditions, and makes the thief player little more than a buff dispensary.

virtue of resolve is better than skelk venom. not even a normal heal. also gives more than just HP too when traited. skelk venom is VERY underwhelming.

i agree with what u said.

MyCondolences.8172:

Travlane.5948:

for thief….you require enough stats to do dmg. u cant just run power or precision and a mix of this n that. thief is so fragile it needs to be as strong as it is weak or it wont balance. it has to be super defensive with evades invis/blinds or run full gank you kitten before you gank mine. go ahead and try run a zerk gear with 0 0 x x x and then tell me you are doing good dmg. lol . video plz?

Your making up stuff here, i actually said the exact opposite of what your asking. Why gear for phyiscal dps that requires 3 stats for dmg when you can stat from condition that only requires one. I’m sure you already knew this but lvl80 gear has 3 stats, meaning that i can have condition dmg on every piece and since i dont have to bother with 2 other stats to dps i could concentrate on defensive stats. If you bothered to check out my build you would know this.

Also skelk venom+leeching venoms scales alot better with healing power then withdraw does.

If you have something against venom share builds… thats fine. but please dont go talking non sense.

withdraw still gives you MUCH more healing per second plus condi removal. withdraw is about 40 % better overall than skelk venom. id say about 70% better bc it doesnt require hits…. but 40% is pretty realistic. i posted the HPS (heal per sec) above somewhere. withdraw is the best overall and HIS is a very close 2nd. HIS is first if traited tho.

simonerd.8672:

45 sec ? Man have you ever play a venom build? If you trait for 20 0 30 20 0 you have quik venom in deadly arts tree that give it 36 sec CD not 45 …

well you are saying its ONLY good in venom share….. which is a build with NO defense.

we get that its 36s in venomshare. but thats not the skill the skill is kitten . you cant say a skill is good or bad unless you view it by itself…. not with a bunch of buffs and traits. if it needs 60 traits to be a decent heal….. then its not a good heal.

hide in shadows heals 2x more when u consider everything.

he may have had basilisk venom up when he was downed? or it was another player or was shooting a skill as he was downed lik head shot?

The Kape.3672:

Excalibur.9748:

lol that’s gonna get ele FGS nerfed.

That would be great actualy just to stop seeing the QQ people.

had to read that 6×..... can u clarify?

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

http://youtu.be/BPBWzV4pGKY

2.5s kill with Thief. GZ to brazil

thats an eleif kil. half ele half thief. def not considered thief. lol nice 1 tho.

Jumper.9482:

If you’re not going to lower the cast as well, (~.10s sounds reasonable to me) at least change how the mechanic works. Make it work like dodge does and take priority, ignoring the MASSIVE aftercasts on sword and cancelling any queued skills.

I literally can not think of any use for a 1-1.25s REACTIVE defensive skill when most 1shot skills in this game come out at .25-.50s. (besides most ele and mesmer bursts which are instant)

already said this. just like shadow strike.