Guild Wars 2

AWESOME VIDEO! very fun to watch. you guys are good players. But that was a joke of a fight. most of them were upscaled. :/

K U T M.4539:

LoneWolfie.1852:

K U T M.4539:

Bredgen.6721:

K U T M.4539:

LoneWolfie.1852:

Seems like the other professions are invading the thief forums… Can’t seem to point out the only escape mechanism against CC is gone and we don’t have a stability skill to deal with stuns.

And instead of fixing it, other professions come in to say, no problem dude, thief nerf is fine because you have lyssa runes. Can’t get any easier for thieves. Next nerf is probably change to HP.

Dagger storm give stability. You do have a stability skill.

inc “But I don’t like that elite” post

Here’s why if you haven’t played thief, you shouldn’t post here.

Dagger storm gives you stability, sure. It also has a cast time of like a second before the thief starts spinning. It also DOESN’T break stun (which is the whole point here). It also has a 90s CD. It also removes the main Elite skill thieves use in WvW (Basilisk Venom) or PvE (Thieves guild). Finally, you CAN’T use shadow return while dagger storming because shadow return has a cast time, so it queue’s up after dagger storm. You have to waste a dodge and then shadow return (which still uses it’s stupid cast time) to get back.

Btw, what you said is like saying “Oh btw, you can’t use Supply drop on your engi anymore because you need stability on a huge CD. Use Mortar turret instead (i know turret doesn’t give stability, this is an analogy)”.

So basically, in order to not get stunned, he needs to put a stunbreak on his bar. Good thing thief can run 3 stunbreaks and be perfectly viable.

E:
Basically the complaint here is that he can no longer spam his stunbreak, which was pretty kitten OP before. And then, because of this, he complains without making any minor changes to his build. He could easily change his build slightly (Literally change one utility, a rune set, etc) and be fine. But no he wants it to be like it was.

Seems like the nerf worked as intended.

Please run 3 stun breakers in pvp or wvw and upload a video to show me your perfect viableness. Thanks.

Shadowstep + Roll For initiative + Inf signet.

so you are saying we have to run a pideonhole build with 60 sec cooldowns bc the weaponset sux? ahh ok now i get it thanks

Fade.7658:

LoneWolfie,

Look at it this way, Jon Peters himself came here and told us the proposed changes for thieves for this past 10th of December. After a month of posts, most of which were reasonable, Anet STILL went through with the changes they proposed with the smallest of changes based on those posts.

Do you really think Anet is going to make any changes suggested by one person or listen to his/her feedback, in this case Sanduskel?

Let it go. The thief community considers him a troll already (the only people that like his posts and agree with him are non-thieves). Ignore his posts and move along.

unfortunately anet seems to really go with the minority. we true thieves believe they erally hate our class and just troll us with nerfs. we TRUELY believe that. and when we see rediculous things like sanduskel…… we kind of get the feeling that EXTREME minority is listened to

theres 2 things you ahve to understand about GW2

1) GW2 is dumbed down IMMENSELY from GW1.
2) They will keep dumbing it down until all players can be competitive on all builds.
3) they dont want winners or losers. they want the 50 50 ratio despite experience and reaction time.

LoneWolfie.1852:

The moderators right here keep deleting posts in regards to sanduskel baits. This person right here is NOT constructive and NOT in the least bit helpful other than being a nasty thorn in the majority of the thief players here.

Do something, please moderate sanduskel.

everyone does +1 to those comments. def an anet plug. works for anet. doesnt play. trolls. rude. disrespectful. unproductive. yet anytime we makea post about anet not caring/listening or sanduskel we get moderated. anet wont do anything bc they want control. the treat thieves like we are first day players. enjoy this comment while you can. we dont have the 1s AMENDMENT in this forum. its controlled like a kitten culture. watch this get deleted. there is NOTHING bad in this comment just stating that you cant say what you want/feel/express without being filtered if its not going in flow with the narrative anet wants other players to believe. they use the "hide the true feelings of the community so it does spread and let other players who are too “whatever” to catch on".

this comment will be deleted yet theres nothing wrong with it.

kitten? no srry thats a historical figure/ideal used in teaching at every school

anet doesnt listen to us? no sorry its true if u look at the comments. im just stating it bc if you look….nobody is happy with these changes…well 90%anyway.

sanduskel saying things that create friction here? no sorry its true and we are complaining to anet/moderators to fix the problem but they are prolly 1 in the same as we keep getting filtered everytime we mention it and even blocked for days/week.

anet treats people like 1st day players? its true. i can point out a dozen things they say/do in the videos they put out thats obtuse and obvious.

so if saying the truth in a generally respectful and delicate manner is wrong. maybe selling your product in the USA is a bad place for you guys.

i will be posting the results of why this is removed. there wont be a reason or atleast a nonsensical one thats copy n pasted which also follows the “we dont care” attitude.

K U T M.4539:

Bazzoong.7145:

LoneWolfie.1852:

Quite frankly, my death rate has gone up about nearly 500% without sword ‘2’. Everytime I get caught by a CC, I eat about 3 seconds worth of zerg damage, and no, hard to catch is garbage. If you wanted to nerf the kitten sword move, how about separating WVW and SPVP changes?

I don’t expect any dev response, obviously.

Put roll for initiative on your utility bar,perhaps? Or maybe shadowstep, or use withdraw, or steal?

If your death rate goes up 500% by loseing 1 specific mechanic, then the problem is probably you being carried by an overpowered skill and your whole post actually becomes a pretty good argument as to why the nerf was needed.

+1

nobody should go up 500% by losing 1 skill. unless you are a thief. then any one small nerf can do that. thief is inherently weak and fragile so removing a defensive playstyle…..ruined the build. theres no way around that. the skill was literally used for getting away from AOE dmg while stunned/knockdown/pushed/pulled/stoned etc etc. now its a useless skill. most ofthe time you would use it . . . it cant be used.

s/d isnt playable in spvp. ive tried it and it really opens up thief to alot of dmg and telegraphs his skills. HELLO im doing this…free hits. come n get em! ive been interrupted a few times too. ill make a video of it if requested but thats more for anet bc all true thieves knowwhats up.

MrAmputatoes.6031:

Eh, 1 stun break and the only condition removal you have costs 8 initiative. You still sacrifice way too much self preservation for shoddy team support IMHO.

exactly. running 5 venoms is a nice lil heal but you have no dmg mitigation.
so if ur actually trying to help and fighting this is what it looks like.

venom leeching/skelk venom/residual venoms all give you about 100% of your HP back but that same build makes you take about 300% more dmg due to no blinds, no defensive utilities, no stun breaks, no evades (outside of 2 dodge rolls), no reliable heal outside of first 5-6 seconds. its a really REALLY bad build. if u are ok with hopping in the middle popping all your venoms then going back out and /sleep then hey this is the build for you. if you actually wanna support team andhave fun try somethign else or have anet wake up and be honest about “venoms almost being there”…. although make it truthful next time anet.

muscarine.5136:

Dude can you stop copy/paste this to every thread mentionning Skelk venoms ? Thanks.

Some of us try to make use of it, period.

dude can u stop pretending my posts are stopping you from “making use” of the new crappy heal. thanks.

and no i wont stop posting bc i’d like to increase the % chance of the message actually hitting the design team at anet. venoms are a joke and its well known andnobody runs them. outside of this first 1-2 weeks nobody will run them agian …. just a few testers now including me so i wasnt jumping the gun and being biased. its a pidgeonholed no defensive lazy auto attack build that has less total productivity than every other class in the same slot. its a fail and it needs to be passed on.

the numbers dont add up.
the live tests dont add up.
the theories dont even add up.

answer 4 u = NO! Merry X-Mas

its not a 5% difference in total defense. its like 2% maaaaaaybe 3%. and no…thats not enough to matter. it should still be around 50-50 win chance.

muscarine.5136:

Sigil of hydromancy also consume your venoms on aoe, which is something you want to avoid.
Venoms wasted on pets/clones/minions will hurt you a lot on a 36s CD.

Another thing to point out about leeching venoms is that life steal is not affected by armor.

That’s about +380 fix damage per hit, especially noticable on high damage reduction-low hp builds.
Also, it goes through endure pain.
This is why residual venoms is a must have.

Now, after using this build a few hours yesterday, i’m coming to the conclusion that the “meta thief” will most probably switch to S/P, not this.
Will keep running this though, it’s fun.

another reason venomshare sux.

skelk venom = 9573 hp per minute heal (16350 traited (1 strike/leeching))
skelk venom = 159 hp per second heal (272 traited (1 strike/leeching))
withdraw = 18100 hp per minute heal
withdraw = 301 hp per second heal
Hide in shadows = 12440 hp per minute (17014 traited)
Hide in shadows = 207 hp per second heal (284 traited)
If you count the damage/mitigation from condition removal and avoidance from stealth….. the other heals not only BEAT skelk venom but blow it out of the water.
Now is that really worth sacrificing all your defense for ? a bunch of maybe hits and maybe buffs if allies are close enough? low hp, low defense, no invulnerbilty, no protection, no aegis, no blocks etc etc.
Im gonna pass. i guess venoms are “almost there” STILL. Perhaps put them on f2 f3 f4 and replace them with real utilities. right now they are just sub par and garbage UNLESS you use 30/x/30/x/x build and even then your defenseless.
Might i add that skelk venom is probably about 25% less due to half the strikes of venom not hitting.

MyCondolences.8172:

Travlane.5948:

MyCondolences.8172:

30/0/30/0/0 is the only build its worth running in. I’ve been running it today in that build and it can be amazing, Heals me for 12/15k of my hp and heals allies for 6.5k.
IMO:
Fail skill if not traited, best heal for venomshare builds.

thats if u use clerics. which means you do crap dmg. which also means you have no condi removal and no extra evades and no stun breaks no defense no util invis. nothing. your a sitting duck for 36-45 seconds.

forthose of you whom havent bought a set to make this build happen. heres a tip. DONT> anything u do for productivity with this build will be outdone by EVERY other class.

interesting concept. this is even more deadly than d/d 30 30 0 0 10 d/d full zerk in wvw. no defense at all…. none. and u sit auto attacking for 98% of the time.

What I’m running atm although using skelk venom for heal.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYUQNAoYVlYmiPXaS0E/5EC3DmCqeKvCOo2jbymiJA-jkBBoOCiZQFRjtGsIasadER1qJYeFER1RBATA-w

Not using a single cleric’s piece and i can still do good heals and moderate dps aswell as having excellent sustain. People too close minded to think that condition requires only 1 stat while physical DPS requires 3.

for thief….you require enough stats to do dmg. u cant just run power or precision and a mix of this n that. thief is so fragile it needs to be as strong as it is weak or it wont balance. it has to be super defensive with evades invis/blinds or run full gank you kitten before you gank mine. go ahead and try run a zerk gear with 0 0 x x x and then tell me you are doing good dmg. lol . video plz?

also… about skelk…ive posted this before and ill repost now.

skelk venom = 9573 hp per minute heal (16350 traited (1 strike/leeching))
skelk venom = 159 hp per second heal (272 traited (1 strike/leeching))
withdraw = 18100 hp per minute heal
withdraw = 301 hp per second heal
Hide in shadows = 12440 hp per minute (17014 traited)
Hide in shadows = 207 hp per second heal (284 traited)

If you count the damage/mitigation from condition removal and avoidance from stealth….. the other heals not only BEAT skelk venom but blow it out of the water.
Now is that really worth sacrificing all your defense for ? a bunch of maybe hits and maybe buffs if allies are close enough? low hp, low defense, no invulnerbilty, no protection, no aegis, no blocks etc etc.
Im gonna pass. i guess venoms are “almost there” STILL. Perhaps put them on f2 f3 f4 and replace them with real utilities. right now they are just sub par and garbage UNLESS you use 30/x/30/x/x build and even then your defenseless.
Might i add that skelk venom is probably about 25% less due to half the strikes of venom not hitting.

now this is set up with full zerk and 30 0 30 0 10 . build was hitting like average class but with worse defense than a 30 30 0 0 10 d/d d/d signet build. ssssssooooo yeah its a pretty bad build. ive tested it. ive run venom share alot in wvw. ive run pretty much every build including rare ones like givers’ p/d crit setup. venomshare is a huge risk and small reward. not worth it in the grand scheme of things. if u are doing a 5 v 5 id say b ring it. if not forget it.

lol.idk anet doesnt care. they have 90% of the thief community up in arms over these changes of late and havent had a bone thrown to them or any of the promises made….actually kept.

sorry but an unequal trade in initiative regen gain isnt a bone thrown either…its the kitten end of the stick.

its just a personal thing with anet. they dont like their players not being able to destroy thieves at will. . . even tho they can do many things thieves cant.

Elxdark.9702:

No, sorry but you’re just bad.

It is almost instant lol, but now you need to use it carefully and not spamming it like a kid.

I recommend you to watch this stream :
http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654

He’s the best EU teef and probably the best in the class.

a dev playing? pfft.

MyCondolences.8172:

30/0/30/0/0 is the only build its worth running in. I’ve been running it today in that build and it can be amazing, Heals me for 12/15k of my hp and heals allies for 6.5k.
IMO:
Fail skill if not traited, best heal for venomshare builds.

thats if u use clerics. which means you do crap dmg. which also means you have no condi removal and no extra evades and no stun breaks no defense no util invis. nothing. your a sitting duck for 36-45 seconds.

forthose of you whom havent bought a set to make this build happen. heres a tip. DONT> anything u do for productivity with this build will be outdone by EVERY other class.

interesting concept. this is even more deadly than d/d 30 30 0 0 10 d/d full zerk in wvw. no defense at all…. none. and u sit auto attacking for 98% of the time.

Kincaidia.3192:

This happened last balance patch. Lots of talk, and then they did what they want. PLEASE stop thinking that they’re actually trying to get feedback.

They don’t want your feedback.

This is a regular tactic used – it acclimates people to the changes, and then when someone complains, they can say, “you weren’t part of the discussion”. So it works both ways.

Don’t bother. While I completely expected exactly this, I can’t help but feel slighted. Again.

anet associate made this post or had something to do with it. no doubt.

MrAmputatoes.6031:

Lucky Shot.7650:

I do, but I just barely notice it. It doesn’t seem to help at all, I’d rather have initiative on demand with Signet Use when I actually need it. Also, initiative on demand is a lot more useful than passive regen for short fights.

I’m with you on this on. Those clutch moves one could pull off with the extra 4-6 initiative was fantastic and a great reward to pull off. I really notice the initiative in long drawn out fights, but I’m usually dry after those quick skirmishes in WvW

they have been slowly killing thief burst now for 1 year….. yes 1 year.

HS nerf
CND nerf
BS nerf
Mug nerf
initiative nerf
Haste nerf
Basilisk venom downgraded to the worst of all stuns in game nerf

the list goes on. just another way to kill thief burst…by killing our init on demand….

Dont expect a RATIONAL explanation. Devs dont play thieves and neither does the balance team. we all know this to be a truth so lets just make that the given behind this comment.

NOW . . . the reason they did this is quite simple. SPITE. they dont like playing against thieves who respond well and are able to avoid a little bit of dmg. just spite and only spite. all the QQers and spiteful people at anet who made a class who is ….WAS….really good at 1 v 1 and now is horrible all around. can still do some 1 v 1 but hey . id rather bring another class in the same slot.

thieve team VS balanced team
1v1 (thief 50% chance of winning)
2v2(thief 47% chance of winning)
3v3(thief 44% chance of winning)
4v4 (thief 40% chance of winning)
5v5(thief 34% chance of winning)

50v50(thief 2% chance of winning)

now these examples are all thieves vs all balanced teams/zergs. so 50 thieves vs 10 guards + 10 warriors + 7 necros + 6 engineers + 5 elementalists + 4 rangers + 8 mesmers…. or somethign to that fashion.

the higher the quantity in the fight the more aoe/incidental dmg a thief will take even when not targeted…. which is death….

bc of this obv lack of….whatever you wanna call it…. we NEED a cast time of .25 on shadowstep. how dare we pop in do dmg and pop out ….. i mean thats what a thief does andhow dare he do what hes made to do. (all sarcasm)

anyway just take it at surface lvl. thieves are hating bc they are annoying. not great at helping in the game. but annoying. get “LFG lvl 50 fractals No thieves no noobs plz” and in 8v8 tpvp….“ummm…. you think you can reroll or….?” i could go on but REAL thieves and thieves WHO ACTUALLY PLAY their thief know what im talkin about. anet doesnt but perhaps someday they will clue in.

its still not as much help as any other class would give in that same 36-45 seconds. so its quite horrid.

in the first 3 seconds of a fight…yes venomshare will be more productive than most classes. after 10 seconds mostly every other class outperforms it bc u are stuck with auto attack and NO defense. name me any class andill show how it outperforms venomshare. not like you need all that leeching at the start of a bttle anyway. and what ur gonna use it half way thru? ok then the first half of the battle ur just auto attacking and not doing diddly. its a horrible build. its interesting and has potention but not until they make a few changes with venoms basic functioning etc.

heal sux. its not even as good as the F mechanics of guardians. srry forgot the name of the big AOE heal.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Travlane.5948:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

This would work, if the majority of the player base played thief. As it is, I don’t think enough people play thief for an embargo to make a difference to their income. At least, according to the one year on stats they published (google it).

i dont think those stats are accurate. they didnt give a baseline how they got them. i bet they are WAY off.

They almost certainly are lol. I think they simply counted the number of each profession across all accounts then worked out a percentage, so accounts that have a lv4 thief that has only been played an hour since launch will still have been counted towards the thief total.

Stats are wonderful things. Did you know that 90% of all road accidents involving a pedestrian happen on the pavement? So logically, to reduce the risk of being run over, pedestrians should walk in the road. (Some people I know from college genuinely could not find fault with this argument. The world is a scary place :P )

eeeeeeeeexactly. theres no way 13 % of people are considered “thief” class. im guessing much less. prolly 5-6%. many people HAVE a thief. but not play it mostly or even half.

its ok for PVE. dont expect much more out of it tho.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

This would work, if the majority of the player base played thief. As it is, I don’t think enough people play thief for an embargo to make a difference to their income. At least, according to the one year on stats they published (google it).

i dont think those stats are accurate. they didnt give a baseline how they got them. i bet they are WAY off.

Rafahil.2857:

Currently Devourer Venom is better.

+1 for that comment. i totally agree.

would you guys rather have:

SKILL A
0 cast time
2 strikes
2.25 seconds immobilize
30 seconds of up time
45 second cooldown

SKILL B
1 second cast time
1 strike
1.5 second stun
30 seconds uptime
45 second cooldown

now dont forget that immob is basically a stun if u strike them from behind

like

AMBUSH TRAP – Summon a thief ally to help when target ally strikes you from the side or behind. 20 sec uptime. 30 sec recharge.

it doesnt ignore defiant. most bosses other than like champs….. just attack and move with it on. so its useless as an elite. it should be a regular venom. or make it so nothing breaks it. period. or make it a NON venom and buff it if they are worried about venom share. they should just take venom share out of the game and make venoms viable.

Kadin.3086:

stunbreak shouldn’t remove petrify if its going to be an elite

+1

totally true. thats the whole point of this thread. BV is our elite and its just a regular stun. shorter than most stuns at MUCH longer CD time. how is this an elite especially with a 1 sec channeling time.

aLovedhater.4096:

@Travlane it’s only maybe some extra heal from skelk if you aren’t able to use it properly, you still get the damage and heal from the venoms on ACTIVATION. you only sacrifice 100 toughness & vitality from this build to get the extra healing/damage/condition effects, it’s a very small difference because we’re squishy no mater what. and we never has aegis/blocks/protection/invulverability anyways, so how could we be losing it? i hope you’re not comparing this to other classes because last time i checked this is a thief forum. not a discussion forums between classes, i’ve seen f2 ect venoms and yeah sure that would be VERY nice, i agree fully with you on that, but that doesn’t mean that should be the ONLY way to fix venoms. skelk venom is only -800 healing if you only hit 2 venoms on your enemy. compared to the what, around 6500 healing you get from the rest of it? please take a look at the build before you assume all thieves are sub par and garbage and force your opinions on others. thanks

not sure what you are babbling about…not to insult u …seriously thats not what i mean. but its babbling bc you are all over the place.

i already showed you how its a crap heal by itself (cant be argued as ive shown the math) even with full 60 trait points put into buffing it.

i already showed (diff thread) how bad it is for the thief when running it bc 36-45 secs after popping it you can only clusterbomb and auto attack with SB or pistol bc there is ZERO defense to go with it excluding 2 dodge rolls.

pop 5 venoms and share then /sleep or /autoattack for next 36-45 seconds. dangerous AND boring!

Asomal.6453:

I don’t think there will be any new build that isn’t subpar compared to other professions. Why play thief when someone else does the same job, much easier and better?

this is the point

they needed to fill out thief section with some black ink….someting that WASNT negative…..

almost there means no defense.

when they say venoms are almost there. in their “anet style minds” i believe they MEAN to say VENOMOUS AURA trait is almost there. bc …. venomous aura is a nice trait for allies. very VERY bad for the thief and slightly worse than ahving a guardian/warrior instead of the thief in party. but still its interesting. not more useful than another class …but unique.

I think its dead last and needs a buff!

if anyone disagrees plz point out 1 skill that stuns and is WORSE than basilisk venom. i do believe BV is the worst. and its our elite. :/

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun

swinsk.6410:

big nerf to thief in wvw… i can’t beat mesmers now because they can actually stay stealthed longer than me now…

i’m sure i’d lose a lot more fights vs. multiples and adds due to not being able to stealth around the map as i used too…

sad day for thief class…

tpvp d/p burst build got a slight buff tho with init changes because it doesnt use any init regen except opportunist…

9 months ago only maybe 5% of the thieves were really adept/pro. now its about 33% of them that are super adept pro. why? this is bc most rerolled and only the true thieves are left to play thief….. most of us really know how bad of a nerf this has been for sword and wvw/tpvp. anet will see it eventually when they say…wow lets kill that thief…easy bag.

Oxygen.5918:

They made it worse than it was. Promote “in-combat” play? 80 health per ini point? Please. Regen provides 3 times that per second.

its 69 base i thought. either way even if it IS 80 per init. after you use the first 12 initiative in the first 4-5 seconds its only about 80 hp per second heal on average. hardly worthy of a master trait nevermind GM. sad.

Maugetarr.6823:

Interceptor.2653:

Travlane.5948:

actually venoms are trash.

Actually they aren’t. See I can do that, too.

Then you better follow up with your reasoning for that statement as he did after the single sentence you quoted.

i did before.

Immobilizes – venom vs warriors versions

THIEF – Devourer Venom – 45 sec CD – 4 seconds of immob (if both hit)

WARRIOR – Flurry – 10 sec CD – 4 seconds immob (8×265dmg 8 stacks bleed)
WARRIOR – Throw Bolos – 25 sec CD – 4 seconds immob

Poison – venom vs necro version

THIEF – Spider Venom – 45 sec CD – 7 secs poison – 5 attacks ( so almost 10 sec total)
NECRO – Signet of Spite – Passive: 180power-263 dmg- bleed 2 stacks 10s Blind: 5s Crippled 10s Poison 10s Vulnerability 10s Weakness 10s
NECRO – Dark Water – 7 secs poison – 15 sec cooldown

Torment – venom vs mesmer

THIEF – Scale Venom – 6.5 seconds torment – 3 attacks – vulnerability x 3
MEMSER – Illusionary Counter – 5 stacks torment 8 seconds – 12 second CD

Stun – venom vs mesmer

THIEF – Basilisk Venom – 1.5 sec stun – 45 sec CD (thats it lol)
MESMER – Static field – 4 secs of AOE 1200 range 2s stun UNBLOCKABLE- 40s CD
MESMER – Magic bullet – Dmg67 Blind: 5s Daze: 2s Stun: 2s Number of bounces: 2
and only a 25s cooldown
WARRIOR – Earthshaker – 10 sec CD – 2s stun
WARRIOR – Skull Crack – 10 sec CD – 3s stun
WARRIOR – Whirling STrike – 10 sec CD – 2s stun
MESMER – Sig of domination -45 sec cd – 3s stun- 1200 range- +condi dmg passive

so as you can see venoms are a joke. there is really no wiggle room in this as all our range is 900 and venoms are not only longer CD’s but less effects and less total time of given conditions etc.

ill try this again…

VENOMS ARE MADE WEAK ,,,,,and only bc somebody MIGHT take VENOMOUS AURA and share them. without Venoumous Aura anet would have made venoms strong in their own right. but for now they are a joke….. and even in VA builds a joke bc u have NO defense no blocks no invul no invis no condi removal no aegis no protection no high defense no high hp no high armor ……. thats alot of “no’s”

it should give regen like the skelks get. 15% hp per pulse now THAT i would take.

prolly 3-4% vulnerability on average. not worth taking. another joke.

actually venoms are trash. the immob one is ok on d/d gank but 45 secs is outrageous.

bottom line and you cant really argue this……. the CD and amount of strikes plus the effects/conditions are directly toned down due to the possibility of running venom share.

if there were NO venom share in game then they would be MUCH stronger. strong enough to….lets say…run by themselves and be viable in their own right WITHOUT traits.

can use PW then use infil sig/steal to keep it going and gap closer! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Clockwork Bard.3105:

Travlane.5948:

Clockwork Bard.3105:

Is it at all significant? I’m assuming “by 35%” they mean 35% of its already negligible scaling. Which comes out as a nerf for me, because I’m having to give up 100 healing power from my Shadow Arts line to chase the thing into the grandmaster tier.

check mate.

this alone poitns out the uselessness of the trait. would have to do x x 30 30 x just to make it work. and you always want p/p ricochet build for assassins reward or dagger dagger Death Blossom spam…. buuuuuuuuut ohwell.

Aye, and it gets worse. You give up a lot of potential offense by going 30 in Acrobatics. Then you have to gear Healing Power, which only comes on gear combinations one offensive stat boost. You’re giving up more there.

So, any build that is not raw-conditions gives up a LOT of offensive potential. Raw condition and bunker thieves do not stand toe-to-toe in an engaged fight, as was the stated goal of the change. They win by attrition and lots of avoidance. And since this is a trickle heal, they’re going to have to avoid damage entirely until it manages to top them back off.

Tentative Conclusion: The change has the opposite effect of that which was intended.

skelk venom = 9573 hp per minute heal (16350 traited (1 strike/leeching))
skelk venom = 159 hp per second heal (272 traited (1 strike/leeching))

withdraw = 18100 hp per minute heal
withdraw = 301 hp per second heal

Hide in shadows = 12440 hp per minute (17014 traited)
Hide in shadows = 207 hp per second heal (284 traited)

If you count the damage/mitigation from condition removal and avoidance from stealth….. the other heals not only BEAT skelk venom but blow it out of the water.

Now is that really worth sacrificing all your defense for ? a bunch of maybe hits and maybe buffs if allies are close enough? low hp, low defense, no invulnerbilty, no protection, no aegis, no blocks etc etc.

Im gonna pass. i guess venoms are “almost there” STILL. Perhaps put them on f2 f3 f4 and replace them with real utilities. right now they are just sub par and garbage UNLESS you use 30/x/30/x/x build and even then your defenseless.

Might i add that skelk venom is probably about 25% less due to half the strikes of venom not hitting.

OOOH! i 4got! there is another way to make these venoms really work. have to increase the share pool from 5- prolly 10 or so. that would make the team utilitiy be on par with another class like warrior/guard….until then its a wasted spot in a group.

anet is dellusional. id rather have a guardian / warrior any and everyday than a venom share thief. HAH! its that bad STILL. venoms are almost there. like i said. f2 f3 f4 them or they wont be used. atleast not used and be as good as another class in a 8v8 team

i used to run venomshare in wvw. didnt like it. defenseless and boring watching with auto attack bow.

now to the people who say cast it one at a time….thats not giving your party their best chanceat winning. they want to crush people not slowly add stuff on. yes for the leeching part on yourself…but its not about you. its about the party

pre cast them? worst case scenario you get to batle and they JUST wear off. then ur 6-15 seconds away from recasting. lil risky. also need a GOOD TIGHT party to listen and stay close. not likely but still annoying even if possible.

all n all this build isnt worth the play. id rather do d/d and just CND backstab for 16k. thats much more productive to just take out a mesmer or ele real quick or even necro before they hit extra HP several times.

skelk venom = 9573 hp per minute heal (16350 traited (1 strike/leeching))
skelk venom = 159 hp per second heal (272 traited (1 strike/leeching))

withdraw = 18100 hp per minute heal
withdraw = 301 hp per second heal

Hide in shadows = 12440 hp per minute (17014 traited)
Hide in shadows = 207 hp per second heal (284 traited)

If you count the damage/mitigation from condition removal and avoidance from stealth….. the other heals not only BEAT skelk venom but blow it out of the water.

Now is that really worth sacrificing all your defense for ? a bunch of maybe hits and maybe buffs if allies are close enough? low hp, low defense, no invulnerbilty, no protection, no aegis, no blocks etc etc.

Im gonna pass. i guess venoms are “almost there” STILL. Perhaps put them on f2 f3 f4 and replace them with real utilities. right now they are just sub par and garbage UNLESS you use 30/x/30/x/x build and even then your defenseless.

Might i add that skelk venom is probably about 25% less due to half the strikes of venom not hitting.

skelk venom = 9573 hp per minute heal (16350 traited (1 strike/leeching))
skelk venom = 159 hp per second heal (272 traited (1 strike/leeching))

withdraw = 18100 hp per minute heal
withdraw = 301 hp per second heal

Hide in shadows = 12440 hp per minute (17014 traited)
Hide in shadows = 207 hp per second heal (284 traited)

If you count the damage/mitigation from condition removal and avoidance from stealth….. the other heals not only BEAT skelk venom but blow it out of the water.

Now is that really worth sacrificing all your defense for ? a bunch of maybe hits and maybe buffs if allies are close enough? low hp, low defense, no invulnerbilty, no protection, no aegis, no blocks etc etc.

Im gonna pass. i guess venoms are “almost there” STILL. Perhaps put them on f2 f3 f4 and replace them with real utilities. right now they are just sub par and garbage UNLESS you use 30/x/30/x/x build and even then your defenseless.

Might i add that skelk venom is probably about 25% less due to half the strikes of venom not hitting.

catches on lip of bridge after waiting a abysmal 1.5sec channeling time only to fail

you lose all DEFENSE for this. plz check out the thread i just made with a quick video showing why its dangerous. "VENOMSHARE in REALITY- VIDEO

Clockwork Bard.3105:

Is it at all significant? I’m assuming “by 35%” they mean 35% of its already negligible scaling. Which comes out as a nerf for me, because I’m having to give up 100 healing power from my Shadow Arts line to chase the thing into the grandmaster tier.

check mate.

this alone poitns out the uselessness of the trait. would have to do x x 30 30 x just to make it work. and you always want p/p ricochet build for assassins reward or dagger dagger Death Blossom spam…. buuuuuuuuut ohwell.

Let me add in if that were a zerk everyone would have aegis/dodging the first volley of attacks. full waste of venoms and a slot in the zerg. lesson learned? reroll.

Lets see a preview of what venomshare looks like in game

Step 1 – Cast venoms and PRAY that all allies are close enough to all get them.
Step 2 – Attack to apply venoms and PRAY that most of them hit.
Step 3 – Spend the next 36-45 seconds using nothing but dodgerolls to stay alive.
Step 4 – Die . . . If you didnt run far enough.

http://youtu.be/HR7bnftagIQ