Guild Wars 2

NOPE! its laughable.

ill challenge you with any build. u pick my build and you play sword dagger. pick my class too. ill show you how bad it is now.

no kidding. i didnt know that. i think SOS is fine tho right? ive done that one before….no attack…i think

lets put it this way. im AA’ing and AA’ing and AA’ing then OMG i see FIRESTORM AOE on ground QUICK QUICK press disabling shot! i press it 4 – 5 times before it responds and im hit after about that many clicks. if im able to click disabling shot 4-5 times (prolly much more if i really mash) i should have been able to evade. its not a player end problem where im not reacting fast enough…. but ask MAUGETARR said…. evasive skills/attacks/utilies should ALWAYS interupt skills or atleast cut the aftercast off.

look at shadow strike. theres plenty of times when i play p/d and i use a sneak attack and then im like uh oh theres 5 players on my kitten so i decide to shadow strike after about 25% thru the channel of sneak attack and it interupts and teleports me back so i can bounce outta that heat.

i would like disabling shot to work like this. it rewards good reaction/skill play.

Maugetarr.6823:

I also have the same complaint which I mentioned in the balance patch preview thread (the general one in game discussion). Its really frustrating to use a skill that’s meant to be used for evasion purposes and not have it activate till after you’ve been hit and then usually activate twice since you double tapped it in an effort to dodge the incoming attack (that has sent me over the edge against the new fractal bosses). Evasion skills/dodges need to interrupt current actions (@glaphen: even the ranger auto attack semi leap. It’s stupid that that still roots you a year after release).

this is it. since its like a 1 sec cast on auto atack and 2-3 secs between arrows actually hitting first targets….. it really locks us in and doesnt give us time to use disabling shot to evade….. small fix but big problem.

Clumsy.6257:

Travlane.5948:

no..not cancel. just have it happen quicker. compare our attack to any other class with the exception of scepter guardians.

.7 sec aftercast on trick shot. thats horrendous.

Your specific complaint was that it was “hard to dodge firestorms”. Aftercast has no effect on dodges so the aftercast time is irrelevant.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Wouldn’t it be nice if AnetNet post a video having one of them playing a Thief in this encounter just to prove that it is not as frustrating as we make it out to be?

Perhaps the reason why we have not seen this type of video is because none of them can even get pass level 30 when playing a Thief without their god mode.

If anet balanced thieves around the p/p thief in the fractured livestream then we’d all be pve gods so more than likely there’s at least 1 good thief.

perhaps i mis-stated perhaps you misread idk…but here goes again. bc of auto attack skill being so slow…i cant make my character react even close to fast enough to dodge a firestorm attack with disabling shot etc….its over 2 secs soemteims 3 secs between arrows striking. auto attack locks the character in and prevents him from changing to evade skill on demand.

now if u look at shadow strike…. now THAT is a quick responding skill thats how it should be. go check then come back and ull know what im talkin about.

style.6173:

venomshare isn’t great now and it isn’t going to be very great after the patch either. No one will want a thief for support. It just isn’t the role of the class.

if they made it so the stacks of venom dont go away unless hit…. that would be better.

what do signets have to do with this.

and im assuming you mean pistol…..

pistol has a problem with auto attaack going off in stealth when you CTRL+right click it with mouse so its “auto engaging” even tho its not supposed to while stealthed. very rarely happens on bow too….mostly pistol.

no..not cancel. just have it happen quicker. compare our attack to any other class with the exception of scepter guardians.

.7 sec aftercast on trick shot. thats horrendous.

ok…lets say you just hit auto attack and at the very same time you see the red circle of insta death from firestorm in fractals around you. or any of the other dozens of 1 hit kills you know are coming .5 secs after. so again,… after your auto attack initiates you immediately see the red cirlce and press 3 (disabling shot) …. before you even get to initiate half way thru the evade skill you are dead. not bc your reaction time is slow but bc of the skll time/aftercast between auto and skills.

everyone who plays th ief agrees the speed needs to be higher on pistol and bow. especially now that theres no heat seeking. people used to use bows every build in wvw. since the clusterbomb/heatseeking nerf nboody really uses bc they just arent usable really. cant hit off towers and too slow so you have to use them withing 450 range.

yeah but you used to be able to spam 2-3 without having to sit on the ground for a full second. now you do. its useless skill other than tagging now. just not what it used to be. if they want that 1 second on the ground between the skill use…then up the evade time. 2 secs between attacks and a 1/4 sec evade time. thats almost 90-% of the time you are str8 up vulnerable and open to attacks without having a chance to react. no thank you.

thief can never keep up with a warrior that wants to get awy. not after 3000 range its not gonna happen. the initial sprint yes….

zero day i hope u are being sarcastic

1st guardian and the guardian in 3rd fight are both the same. no wonder they kept running. lol oh boy this was a hoot.

yeah but we are already , as thieves, being classujiced and by classist people (prejudiced by racist) in fractals dungeons and tpvp. this isnt bc we are OP…..

we need a few basic things fixed.

pistol/bow auto dmg/speed should be upped without question. theres no argument against it by anyone.

in fractals. cant dodge firestorms AOE at final boss area. i auto attack and if i use disabling shot or dodge or…..the auto attack is so slow with cast and aftercast i have like .1 sec window to dodge. its rediculous.

we have asked 1000 x already for bow/pistol to be upped in dmg or speed. plz fix it. its a joke.

idk what they did to deathblossom but i wont run it anymore. it used to be months ago….. you could spamit and miss many attacks but now there is an after cast or delay so you are on ground longer before you lift off into your next blossom. too much dmg so i wont play it. die too quick.

u have to just gank them quick or p/d attrition condition them.

thieves are pretty weak right now. thats why we need more nerfs so its more apparent.

to make this work they need to replace all venoms with new skills and put the venoms on f2 f3 f4. this is only way traits will work with the 2 most important RV/VA in grandmaster tier.

the only other option is to drop them down to 25 CD and makethem stronger with passive effects.

without one of these 2 options its not a build worth playing. No matter what kind of gear or weapons you run its going to be a “pop venoms and wait kitten or 36s for them to recharge” …. u will be doing very little other than auto attack or maybe some cluster bombs between popping venoms.

you cant even fit improvisation into this build….and its begging to be put in. what would u sacrifice for it? the 20% reduce on venoms trait? the +1 strike per venom trait? pfft yeah.

kyubi i run p/d usually in wvw ….. even if i run the cookie cutter ONLY build you can run “venom share” build….ur still stuck using auto attack. what else can u use. condi venom builds are p/d SB usually. maybe your best option is to spam Cluster bombs on bow? seriously. no matter how you look at it….. its a “pop venoms for group and run/hide/dont die til the 36-45 secs recharge is up” kind of build. thats lame.

and even when you get ported you should always be facing your opponent.

they should drop the KD on hard to catch too. its soo annoying. everyting you port you get KD>

yeah…. basilisk venom should be a regular venom now on the utility bar.

forit to be an “elite” skill they would have to :

1) make it an instant cast
&
2) take the warning off the buff bar
&
3) cause root in addition to stun for same amount of time

or do……….. just…

1) drop the CD to 30 seconds

somethingshoudl happen tho>

basilisk venom
pistol whip

some other skills too that should be rebuffed but the devs dont care. not even hard fixes…literally quick ones that could be hotpatched. yet this is why people are stopping to spend money bc it goes to…..who knows.

if u compare steal….to all the F1 f2 f3 f4s of guardian etc….. WITHOUT either class traiting them better. STEAL isnt eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeven close to guardians F mechanics. not close to necros or anyones. seriously id trade steal for anything. i mean id miss the gap closer…..buuuuuuut the others mechanics have way more advantage overall and over time.

other classes have close to perma or perma….

protection
fury
(50% aegis)
vigor
regen
swiftness

thief cant even have invul/aegis/block/protection AT ALL….yet its bad if we have close to perma vigor.

yeah only thief cant have nice things. so sad. he wont explain why other classes can have it tho.

he will probably say bc thieves have stealth…but so do mesmers and they have invul/blocks/aegis/protection and super high uptime too.

but but thieves have high dmg….not even top 2 anymore (unless spec’d for 0 defense) …..then again warriors have all that jazz.

theres no reason thief shouldnt have perma vigor. period.

either way it needs a BIG change…..and its not undoable. i think the F2 F3 F4 are the best way to do it…that way you could replace the utilities and just leave the other traits alone

good point MYCONDOLENCES……

Hype.8032:

Thieves are still one of the best roamers, we’re still the fastest. The game has had some pretty big power creep while you’ve been gone but thieves have only gotten weaker. It’s more challenging for us than it’s ever been.

we are the fastest sprinters. from point a to point b in short distance. anything over 3k range is warrior and other classes territory.

even guardians….. i seen an engineer bounce on me the other day too…. oh wait rangers can be pretty kitten ed fast too!….. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH! i see what you did here.

they can do this by programming a trigger on all dmg skills after stealth is applied.

saalle.4623:

Thief is not bad at all,they just wine because they are noobs.The thing with thief is that u need to be vary good player to play it well,if u are good player then you can be OP but if you suck then u will get owned.Thief is not easy class like warrior,mesmer,necro,guardian and so on…where u just need to have keyboard and mouse to play it well and spam 1,2,3.Thief requires lot of skills to be played well and every mistake is fatal unlike with other classes (except ranger-hes weak if he use bow).Now they will nerf our evasion but still even with that good player gonna be able to beat any1,even multiple targets at once.Problem is that people want to kill fast and easy but assassin class is in every game like this,hardest to play but when u master it it becomes best PVP class for sure.But all these nerfing need to stop,i support perma stealth nerf,and sword nerfs too but evasion nerf is not justice at all,thief is supposed to be most agile class.

1 mistake = death…………. thief

6 mistakes = almost dead…………..guardian

yeah….all about whining. but we need the nerfs. 0_o

exactly. they insist upon each other . always wanted to say that. i think the +1 should be a 20 point trait. and same with the venomous aura. or this is not variable to this build. its always always always 30 × 30 x x or its not worth taking. period.

theres really 2 options here.

1) Buff venoms so they are good by themselves.
2) Drop RV/VA down 1 tier so there is some available builds

most builds have traits so they complement the build. like a high crit builds needs to have initiative to use to gain stealth for defense or dodge etc. some builds need more stealth so they go SA traits picked. and im not talking about passives here. with a venom build theres no room for wiggle. its preset…tailor made by anet to be mediocre and boring.

the worst part about this is you pop venoms then sit and wait for 36-45 secs before you are usefull again. i mean what can you do? auto attack? ok not much dmg if u have a bow/pistol. can you use dagger attacks or sword attacks? NO! theres no defense from traits/utilities. theres nothing you can do with this build other than buff allies every 45 seconds then get back and hide so u can do it again. again its nice to share that new heal but its never gonna be a “take the thief for skelk venom share over a guardian plz” sort of thing. guardians with there staff skill alone will outheal skelk venom double or tripple or even more. so why take thief? its a joke.

ummm you guys are pretty far off. right now we get about 1 init ever 2.5 seconds id say. maybe 1 every 3 secs at worst. but with the new nerf on tuesday we will be getting 1 every 6-7 seconds….. how is that not a nerf? what am i missing?

all crit builds run about 60% crit on average. its 1 per sec…. and thieves attack pretty quick with daggers and trick kitten/cluster bomb hits everything nearbye and bounces etc. so in those builds they are 1 init ever 1.5 seconds. in s/d its prolly 1 in 3 secs or 1 in 2.5 secs.

none of these are even close to the 1 in 6-7 secs we will get on tuesday. HUGE nerf no matter how u look at it.

so we all know venoms pretty much suck. mostly bc of the cooldown and 1 or 2 bc of the way they are written. why? bc they make a skill set around a trait (venomous aura). the trait should go around the skills…. otherwise the skills are useless without the trait.

now the only 2 really good venom traits are venmous aura (share venoms to 5 allies) and residual venoms (+1 each strike).

both of these are cool but not so strong to be in GM line. any GM skill should be a build setting kind of trait. 20% dmg under 50% hp is a good one….healing while in stealth is a good one…..

if you want to give us a venom build can you atleast perhaps bring both down 1 tier?

there is no way to play venom builds without going 30 × 30 x x so you dont want us to be pidgeon holed but here we are.

thoughts?

seen a few comments about changing up skills between PVE/PVP.. and my answer is…

YOU ARE NOT A THIEF>>>>>>>>>>>>

so obvious. PVE is worse than PVP…almost… try getting into high lvl fractals. everyon keeps kicking you. i have 55 AR almost my 4th legendary and full ascended. im expereienced and lvl 45. no excuse for that. thats not bc we suck its bc the way anet made us. they made us to be assassins and they took that away with the nerfs to mug, HS, BS, CND…… now we are a shadow of a good character. WAKE UP ANET…… this crappy new venom thats “almost there venoms build” cmon nobody is gonna play that pop venoms and sit back and watch for the next 36-45 secs. thats lame and stoopid. same with init. another blatant nerf. like we cant add. same with sword…u dont like thieves just say it/delete them.

WereDragon.6083:

Running a 100% evasion build as a thief is extremely easy, just cause they’re reducing this effectiveness a bit doesn’t mean the sky is falling.

Also, since when did Sword/X become the ONLY theif build?

alas….another non thief player in thief forums. he said its the non stealth build. all other builds need stealth, atleast competitive ones. this is the only COMPETITIVE build that doesnt need stealth.

and yes …. when warriors are stunning every few seconds we do need no cast time on return for infil return. the sky does fall and buries this build. period.

warriors ahve knockdowns, stuns, pushbacks and almost a 6 second immobilize. and all this is on short timers. imagine that. yet we get infil return for 100-600 range gap creator … depending on where we are. its just QQers. thieves arent really competitive as is. get real. you too anet. keep ruining your game…see what happens.

yeah this happened to me at lvl 49. as you can imagine it was basically a 4 man vs boss ending. not fair to me or my team. plz fix asap. i didnt even switch gear. something happened when i died….or was downed. i lost AR for osme reason. i have 55 AR. no reason for me to be taking 3k+ per hit of agony

idk if its bc i died or what. but i get AR on me and it hits like a truck. im in lvl 42 ish and have 55AR…. shouldnt be getting hit for kitten yet im losing like 2500-3000 per pulse. helps a LITTLE when i put on gear after taking it off. im at molten berskere/firestorm. PLZ FIX THIS i cant even help my kitten ed team.

yeap. why build a set of utilities aruond a 30 point GM trait. its so stupid even a kid can understand.

Brando.1374:

Travlane.5948:

Clumsy.6257:

wait, your saying that the standard wvw d/d glass thief build and the meta pve build is somehow only used by you? and theres absolutely no way youll ever hit higher than 70k, its physically impossible ever since assassin signet nerf

no. nobody uses this build. not even me. it has no defense. u can backstab 20k regularly….but wtf is the point. you die before you stomp.

dont run solo when playing pure glass

yyyyyyyyya. kinda the point. even in 3 v 3 ur dead :P

Clumsy.6257:

Travlane.5948:

Clumsy.6257:

wait, your saying that the standard wvw d/d glass thief build and the meta pve build is somehow only used by you? and theres absolutely no way youll ever hit higher than 70k, its physically impossible ever since assassin signet nerf

no. nobody uses this build. not even me. it has no defense. u can backstab 20k regularly….but wtf is the point. you die before you stomp.

hate to break it to you but thats been one of the most common builds since day 1 in wvw and 1 of 3 viable builds in pve

been here since 1st week. never seen it posted once especially in any highest dps build. im the one always posting it. and never seen higher BS’s. not sayin i created it but its surprising 99% of thieves dontk now it.

whats wrong with it the way it is? its really the only defense s/d has to AOE and stuns….

D/D has cripple and stealth and leap aways.
P/D unblockable shadow strike gap maker and immob
P/P is kittened but can immob atleast
S/P has long evade

s/d doesnt deserve that lil bit?

they said “venoms WERE almost there”….

2 things wrong with this…3 if u count the fact devs dont play thief.

1) venoms are never even close to “there”
2) even if they were…this heal wouldnt bring them their.

venoms are built around the fact that you have to sacrifice a whole build setup, traitline , armors runes and sigils just to use. then even when you do…u activate them and sit there like an kitten for 45 seconds hoping you dont die bc of the lack of defense. all venoms should be on 20-25 seconsd timer max. MAX.

compare basilisk venom to any other stun in game. its the worst one. ….if not THE worst ONE of the worst. seriously. joke. scale venom? sure but wont work in power builds. so many problems with venoms.

they should be made so they are good without venomshare. soooo bad. so lame. wont use. thanks for hte laughs tho.

it just needs a passive thats up at all times to work.

every venom heals 300 per hit ontop of what it aleready does.

i think that would make it worthy …especcially since half will be misses/blocks/blinds etc

Clumsy.6257:

wait, your saying that the standard wvw d/d glass thief build and the meta pve build is somehow only used by you? and theres absolutely no way youll ever hit higher than 70k, its physically impossible ever since assassin signet nerf

no. nobody uses this build. not even me. it has no defense. u can backstab 20k regularly….but wtf is the point. you die before you stomp.

what am i missing? what nea heal? is there new skills comin gout? liNK?

dont think this is working well. i use it near lots of allies and only removes 1 condition still :?

dont take it.

imagine….p/d using sneak attack and you get hit for a 10% of your hp (pretty common on thief). Instinctual response goes off as you are finishing your sneak attack and you get revealed 4 secs….ouch…. especially common if u use ricochet like me to spread dmg/tag/bleeds. dont use it!

Simonoly.4352:

To answer the OP: Mesmer clones and phantasms are external damage sources, just like Thieves guild, and therefore will not reveal the Mesmer. If external dps sources revealed you it would make stealth completely redundant for Mesmers and Thieves guild would screw Thieves over big time.

As for Throw Gunk, I suppose that technically it’s an AoE damage source coming from you and not an external source, which is probably why it reveals a Thief. There are lots of discrepancies with this sort of thing though, so it’s hard to be definitive.

so is null field? and so are thieves guild…. but they act differently? better for mesmer and worse for thief? why ?

Auesis.7301:

MiniMe.1960:

I want I want i want. All those precious tears. What else do you want. Autoattack 100k damage at least I guess.
I’d like permastealth for all my characters all time even when attacking. And a few Dragon pets of course.

Because wanting the capability to use ranged weapons at the same distance as other classes is the same as wanting a super, hyper, ultra buff way out of line with everything.

Take your pathetic hyperbole somewhere else. I don’t think I’ll be able to take any post you ever make seriously after that.

yeah that was pretty pathetic and nonsensical. fairness= OP? wow thats a stretch. what a troll he was.

Clumsy.6257:

well got bored again so i ran the max damage with wvw/pve buffs

30/5/0/25/10 = 4010.6 power, 258% crit damage, +120% damage
30/30/0/0/10 = 4010.6 power, 283% crit damage, +140% damage

30/5/0/25/10 max damage = 58510.864
30/30/0/0/10 max damage = 70015.114

list of buffs: disc/str banners, scholar runes, 25 bloodlust, force/night, berserkers armor, berserkers ascended weapons/trinkets, 100pow/10% crit damage food, superior sharpening stone, 15% from assassins signet, 25 stacks of vulnerability, 25 stacks of might, max borderlands bloodlust = 60 power, naked warrior with frenzy debuff

meaning the build you posted 25/x/x/25/x and filled in with traits to achieve max damage is physically incapable of hitting 62.5k (unless i missed a buff if so please list it), so in your video you didn’t use the build you posted

of course not. i didnt post it for a reason…. itll prolly be nerfed even tho its not used. :P

i ran

30
30
0
0
5

i ran Basilisk venom Signet of malice signet of shadows signet of agility assassins signet.

sigil of nite(main)Dagger
sigil of force(off)Dagger

25 stacks of bloodlust
25 stacks of might

+power food
+power oil

full zerker gear

TRAITS

Dagger Training
Venomous strength
MUG

Executioner
Signets of power
Signet use

Flanking strikes

now ther is a way to get MUCH MUCH MUCH higher dmg… but i didnt do it in the video. i didnt stack 25 stacks of vulnerability for an additions 25% dmg. im sure you can do the math for 25% more dmg when i hit for 62k. enjoy ….they prolly nerf it now.

with this build (IF IT HITS)……….The CnD-Steal-Backstab combo is a guaranteed kill on any and every class if it crits. ther are some full hp/defense builds that can withstand it…but nobody runs 32k hp with a bunch of toughness usually. are some yes. but most builds (id guess about 85%) drop in a heartbeat.

why hasnt anyone run this? pretty obv to a seasoned thief. if u dont find a solo roamer…u r dead. period. plus there is no way of stomping.

also i used this build against a clone mesmer and just kept 1 hitting clones…was funny