Guild Wars 2

Master of Timespace.2548:

Travlane.5948:

see thats the definition of an elite. its supposed to be strong than other skills but also have the same cooldown to power ratio (making it a longer total cooldown) now basilisk venom is just useless. it ONLY forces people to use their stunbreak first rather than later. no real change. might get 1 free hit from it like CND but not bs.

also 4.25 sec really is a lil OP….. a thief can kill anyone in 5 secs if he is full zerk. not that it matters bc thieves can only do that roaming.

What of course that would be op as HELL. I thought you meant something like “stun your foe and knock down 4 nearby foes for 1/4 seconds”.

i know thats the point. atleast 3 secs is that OP?

Delbaeth.2739:

I actually don’t use blind-on-stealth, atm. Think I should throw my floating 10 into that to give me some blinds?

Couldn’t get the hang of scorp wire, but extra teleports are always solid. I’ll switch that over.

could throw your floating 10? if u dont have 30 in shadow arts ur build is horrible :P not being mean just trying to state somethign that will change ur world around :P

why skale venom? when you steal you put on weakness and poison….. when you CND you put on blind and vulnerability. when you shadowstrike you do torment. when you sneak attack you add bleeds. thats 6 conditions. why are you trying to add skale in? yes poison is only 10 secs or so but its a timing thing. use your first steal like 12 seconds intoa fight right before they use a heal. i use blinding poweder shadow refuge and scorp wire or shadow step. depends where i am

xmtrcv.5236:

inb4 Travalane

Thrill of the Crime > Long Reach > Uncatchable
Bountiful Theft > Ricochet

- Lotus Poison
- Feline Grace
+ Meld with Shadows (extra time for Sneak Attack positioning)
+ Hidden Thief (clear a condition, setup Sneak Attack, re-position)

Not sure about the remaining 10 points left in Acrobatics unless you are considering Boon Duration as a factor.

I think Hidden Assassin might provide more Might up-time than Power of Inertia, especially with Hidden Thief and reduced Steal recharge.

with sleight of hand….mug works great. 3k heal every 20 secs? 1500 dmg every 20 secs? weakness and poison every 20 secs? 2 sec stun every 20 secs? almost cant not run it

deathTouch.9706:

I had a thief open a duel against my warrior with 4 consecutive HS. He dropped in about 5 seconds.

I re-matched him thinking it was a joke. He opened with 4 HS again.

What a waste of 10 seconds of my life.

that was me :/ i admit lol

everyone said HS was OP so i decided to spam it. i didnt even equip an offhand weapon. just dagger/fist was good enough.

@typin its obv that you are low lvl. if you are low lvl your suggestions as stated on your OP are useless. get it now?

HS HS HS HS HS HS HS = noob
CND STEAL BS AA AA HS HS HS = fine

AA is auto attack

dragonbrand. t2. just the right amount of zerg and roaming ratio!

Resouled.5614:

Marduh.4603:

Resouled.5614:

if you use sigil of paralyzation

I have bad news for you.

I guess that means it does not prolong the stun at all?

Anyway, I think the stun should be long enough to atleast get all hits of a single pw in. At the moment the stun wears of in the middle or so and people dodge the last few hits. Since there is a casting time to hit the stun which is fairly long I think having the stun atleast hit all hits should be fair? But that will pw chains with quickness again.

a good player only gets hit 2 times out of 8 swings on pistol whip. sometimes 3. i could go back and check but this im pretty sure on

jkough.7316:

I have played thief in and after beta almost exclusively until now and with upcomming changes to magic find have been wondering the same thing. should i reroll crit or condi.
heres some wisdom i have endured to obtain:

Weapon: Opinion, Survivability, Damage, Utility & Synergy, Bonuses

in the eyes of Spvp/WvW:
P/D: very fun, very survivable(teleports/stealth), low condi, no crit, good synergy
P/P: fun, not survivable, no condi, ok crit, no synergy (needs some DEV love), empties initiative
D/P: fun, survivable(stealth), no condi, good crit, excellent utility & synergy
D/D: kinda fun, survivable(evades), best condi damage(which is low), ok crit, low synergy
S/P: fun, survivable(evades), no condi, ok crit, good utility & synergy, dazes
S/D: meh, survivable(evades), no condi, ok crit, ok utility & synergy, boon stripping
SB: fun, survivable(evades), good condi, good crit, good utility & excellent synergy, combofields

in the eyes of PvE:
P/D: survivable(teleports/stealth), lacking all damage, ok utility & synergy
P/P: survivable(blind), lacking all damage, very low utility & synergy, empties initiative
D/P: survivable(blind/stealth), good crit/no condi, lesser pve utility
D/D: survivable(evades/stealth), ok crit/best-ok condi(aoe), ok utility & synergy
S/P: very survivable(evades/blind), good crit(aoe)/no condi, good utility & synergy, dazes
S/D: survivable(evades/stealth), ok crit(aoe)/no condi, good utility & synergy, npc’s dont need boon stripped
SB: survivable(evades), good all damage(aoe), good utility & excellent synergy, combofields

Survivability is exceptionally important to keep in mind when playing thief. Know what weapons have access to and will limit you to. A direct hit in pve will kill a glass cannon, even more so in pvp.

few of these are off :P if i may add:

d/d LOW DEFENSE and high crit
p/d high condition dmg (bleeds and poison and torment)
s/p low to medium survivability (depends on BPS usage)

Master of Timespace.2548:

Stop comparing thief stealth to Mesmer. Mesmers have clones and invulns to hide behind. Thieves only have stealth unless you play evade thief which doesn’t work out so well in wvw and similarly you only have one form of defense. Spvp is better for those.

Works very well by the way, and you also have blinds and teleports. Evade thief has always some access to stealth, too.

evade thieves dont use stealth :P maybe like 2% of them do and if they do its only for tactical strike. also we only use teleports for melee dmg. doesnt help with clone/mes dmg as most of it is usually at distance.

TyPin.9860:

@Travlane.5948
Your bragging about how good you are(n’t) doesn’t help the discussion. Again (I start to believe ppl don’t read the whole of my posts), I want to see balance for casual level players, where the stealth is giving thieves an advantage, that other casual players can not deal with, even if the thief is a casual player himself. You might be way out of my league, or I might eat you allife. Doesn’t matter for this discussion for the level of play, I am talking about, is below both our skill levels.

And I still can not understand the claims, that theif can not contribute to group or zerg fights. I with my thief can strangly. Pre and mid fight combo finisher, multiple hits with shortbow one, shadow refuge for multiple applications with organized group, picking of to far extended foes, dagger storm and more (and I am mainly talking about shrotbow here, not counting in main hand pistol theives, who could put great preassure on a single target). Hell, I can not count how many guys I have stoped entering their tower with stealth and shortbow #1, so that my Zerg can pick’em off. I don’t like throwing the l2p phrase arround, but it seems that some thieves should improve their group fighting. I agree that 900 range is a bit short, but as far as my experienve goes, it is enough.

@Iavra.8510:
I don’t understand your argument. CnD can not be chained for you will be revealed. If you mean you reapply it in the very right moment, then stealth exhaustion will not come into play, for one time using CnD will cloak you 3-4 seconds, stealth exhausion would only apply if you cloak for >4 seconds. But multiple stealth with CnD require you to pop out of stealth (even just for a blink of an eye) before you reapply it, making stealth exhaustion no issue for you.

the point isnt how good i am. the point is how good you arent. its obvious in the way you talk. thief is not easy to master. its one of the 2 hardest classes. so if u claim to be that good lets put it up on my cam. shall we? where is your video evidence? you cant claim prowess and expect players to take your word on that. as of right now i am thinking you dont even have a thief character on your home screen. none to play with at all. as far as the forums is concerned i am just as right/telling the truth as you are or vice verse.

when he says chained he means chained with infil sig or steal. again… another piece of proof ur new to thief if u even play one at all. press CnD then steal .5 secs later. see what happens u might wow.

Awe.1096:

QQ train. I am an engi with full exotic (3 ascended) knights gear (all pieces are knights only weapon is zerker). Was standing on the point in WvW capping flag. And then something happened. Fast. I stared at the monitor (???), then checked combat log.

Steal (2500) -> C&D (6000) -> Backstab (14000) -> C&D (3000)

Dear thieves. I really really really dont want to hate you. Please show me how. Explain me the math behind this. I am sad

engineer can do dmg pretty close to th is too…with 25 might 25 bloodlust full zerk food and 10% sigils. yeah. no big deal really…ive done 23k backstabs on fully armored players. perfect conditions of course but still.

TyPin.9860:

@swinsk.6410
I have no issues fighting thieves. Your l2p comment serves nothing and shows you didn’t understand the intention I have, or u just wanted to add some insult in the end, serving no value in a disussion. Yes there are traps, but they are a bad desing. Why should any1 be forced to use supply (and if it has to be used often money) to coutner stealth. But countering stealth is not what is intended anyway and as I said, on a high level of player skill, stealth is not an issue any more. I wish to have a balance on a lower skill level. Casual thiev against any other casual profession. But that balance doesn’t exist. On casual levels theives have an advantage. And using CnD and HIS together would still be possible. You first would have to time your skills, for the stealth wouldn’t stack. And if you time it good enough, you would drop out of stealth for a mini second after CnD and reaply new stealth again with HIS and stealth exhaustion would even come into play, but you would be seen for a blink of an eye (depending on your timing). A minor effect imho. As a mesmer, I use that strategy all the time (cuz as mentioned, many mesmer stealth skills don’t steack stealth) and it works fine with some pratice. I might test that in real fight situations with theif and see if it affects play.

If you are against my suggestions, do you have others how to balance thief on casual level? Or does every player have to l2p just to defeat even casual thief players?

@Iavra.8510
With stealth exhaustion implemented, it would nerf perma stealth already. And traiting Stealth Focus (to prevent stealth exhaustion) would cause the theif to drop either health gain in stealth or condition remove in stealth. Leading still to a nerf of the build.

Alternative: remove stealth stacking only
On the other hand, if we drop the stealth exhaustion idea and would remove stealth stacking over all (except for shadow refuge, cuz that skill would be useless then), could be a solution also. Thieves would then need to time their stealthing skills and it would be esaier to implement in the game.

if u truly wanted to help thieves or make it a lil more fair you would ask for us to have middle pool HP to start and also for us tohave somethign other that pre battle blast finishing to bring to a group/zerg play. but we dont. we have NOTHING but our 1 v 1 skills. you want to bring that down a lvl? then ahve nothing ? :P wow. u really are off base. obv ur new to thief so i mean not ur fault but when u need a lesson…. play a good thief.

1 v 1 my thief or one of my friends. ill show you how good u arent :P and how easy u THINK it is but really isnt. thief can be played decently by many but played well by VERY few. u want easy? guardian….. and how about mesmer? clones do 75% of the work. ur way off base here buddy

sylvari has a really nice root. other than that no. charr also has a nice pistol ability. dont wrry about it too much honestly

wiw DAOC looks sooo lame

exactly which is why i left lame kitten D/P

wish.1027:

Master of Timespace.2548:

yes thief is in the top tied with warriors but usually the thief doesnt reset. hes right there in range and just biding time. just sayin :P

This kind of behavior is exactly what separates someone who just runs away with norn leopard elite and a thief. Thief can just move away enough for the cls to recharge, and then come back, and repeat this till the world ends if necessary.

And the person with snowleopard only runs when he suddenly becomes vastly outnumbered, otherwise he wins. And when he suddenly becomes vastly outnumbered, hes not going to go back into the large group… so 3 minutes is more than fine. Thieves who need to constantly reset fights when not greatly outnumbered are just pathetic.

many d/p [players go invis 10 secs at a time to heal up. :P i run p/d currently ankitten ever invis more than 1.5 seconds.

and only a ding dong would entertain that and stand there waiting. go on to more important stuff. if they were smart like that then the person invis would be at the disadvantage :P oh well. some people never learn

@SIL.4560

there are plenty of other classes that can reset or flee too. ill list them in order of cowardice prowess

ANY NORN lol
warrior
ele
mesmer
ranger
guardian
engineer
necro

yes thief is in the top tied with warriors but usually the thief doesnt reset. hes right there in range and just biding time. just sayin :P

Sil.4560:

foofad.5162:

It’s not Rock Paper Scissors. It’s Get Out of Jail Free.

This is exactly my problem with stealth in this game in and the thief in general. This shouldn’t be a thing.

if u say something like this….its fine if u feel this….but tell us the consequence….. :P

dont just say he can leave combat and it makes me grumpy bumpy :< lol

what does it change as far as game tactics go or how does it give one side an advantage. last time i checked 1 v 1 doesnt change anything. and last time i checked group play does. also if i remember right thieves dont really play well with others so the consequently dont really change much of the flow of the game. they might get roamers out n about but then again why is that person roaming? there are plenty of peopleto run with :P

what about AOE knockdown…..aoe quickness + fury….aoe might + swiftness….. and aoe weakness/cripple…. and aoe burning each with a 1.25 sec cast all in the same elite. id DEF like that!

see thats the definition of an elite. its supposed to be strong than other skills but also have the same cooldown to power ratio (making it a longer total cooldown) now basilisk venom is just useless. it ONLY forces people to use their stunbreak first rather than later. no real change. might get 1 free hit from it like CND but not bs.

also 4.25 sec really is a lil OP….. a thief can kill anyone in 5 secs if he is full zerk. not that it matters bc thieves can only do that roaming.

Master of Timespace.2548:

They have only three “stuns”: scorpion wire, basilisk venom and pistol whip. Scorpion wire is very clumsy as anyone who has tried it is aware of. It’s really not even a stun, just a short pull. Pistol whip requires you to use a weapon set with no stealth. Bone crack can only be stolen from mobs and doesn’t count.

bone crack is from guardians :P obv u dont play thief. pets and mobs too but those are random.

So yeah, thieves dont have many stuns. Dazes and interrupts yes, but thats entirely differend game element.

if u gave this to a person who NEVER played the game and ask them to pick out the elite….

Because what new players think tells a lot. I wonder who were all those wammos running back in gw1.

i know there is a diff. i look at it as an interupt. could care less about the 1 sec immob. doesnt change much…..its the skill activating that really is devastating…both of which do the job.

would u think 4 1/4 sec KD for AOE on basilisk venom for longer time is ok?

the point about a new player is he would be unbiased…..not pick what he was told the elite is. wow did u really miss that point? has nothing to do with skill or their experience. has to do with their ignorance of the skills only.

pantsforbirds.9032:

Here is a guide to a really strong dagger pistol perma stealth backstab build. It has good damage, good sir ability, good condi cleanse, good gap closers, and high mobility

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fintothemists.com%2Fguides%2F307-daggerpistol_backstab_by_rand_x_al_thor

watch out for zergs….groups of 4+ and AOE on ground or distance stuns….always bring blinding powder backup.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Travlane.5948:

Master of Timespace.2548:

That’s just some random garpage someone wrote to the wikipedia. For gods sake, unless if you are complete newbie to the game, you know that most elite skills are pure trash.

yes alot of elite skills are kind of garbage. but not in the sense they are weak. in the sense they dont flow into a build. look at the books on guardian…nobody uses them but they are actually REALLY strong. almost all elite skills (80-90% or more maybe) are stronger than most regular skills.

Nobody uses them but they are REALLY strong? What nonsense is that? They just LOOK strong, but in practice are trash. I’m pretty sure lots of warriors, rangers, guards and even mesmers would use basilisk venom if they could. I know I would.

i think basilisk venom should be a 4.25 second knockdown on a longer timer. id rather have that. oooh! AOE too! make it aoe!!! i think thats fair. what are your thoughts on that?

Master of Timespace.2548:

es shadow refuge is. but stealth is a primary thief mechanic and mesmers kind of have a slight touch of it. wouldnt make sense to give mesmers alot of stealth. i get ur point but basilisk venom is arguably the worst stun in the game. read the post above this and compare them. basilisk has no dmg. longest cast in game. longest recharge (besides supply crate)….AND its an elite. the rest are regular utilities.

Exact same thing here as with the shadow refuge. Thief by design, is not meant to have powerful stuns.

powerful is relative to definition. not neccessarily in length but in usefulness and CD time to power ratio.

1 second on steal for 21 s cooldown
1/2 on Pistol whip for 5 init 0 cooldown
1/4 on head shot for 4 init 0 cooldown
1-2 seconds on scorpion wire for 20 s cooldown
1.5 on basilisk venom for kitten cooldown
2 sec on tactical strike for stealth attack (5 sec between sometimes 4 minimum)
3 sec on tripwire for 30 s cooldown
3 sec on bone crack for 21s cooldown (stolen)

so thieves do have alot of stuns and dazes. so its not like they have a “splash” of it like mesmers have a “splash” of stealth. if u gave this to a person who NEVER played the game and ask them to pick out the elite….i bet only 1% of people who did would pick basilisk venom :P

Master of Timespace.2548:

That’s just some random garpage someone wrote to the wikipedia. For gods sake, unless if you are complete newbie to the game, you know that most elite skills are pure trash.

yes alot of elite skills are kind of garbage. but not in the sense they are weak. in the sense they dont flow into a build. look at the books on guardian…nobody uses them but they are actually REALLY strong. almost all elite skills (80-90% or more maybe) are stronger than most regular skills.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Elite is a type of a bonus skill in this game. The name is misleading. It doesn’t mean that the skill is necessarily strictly better than utility skills. Thief doesnt have many stuns by design and I quess that’s the reason basilisk venom isn’t that strong.

And besides, it’s still thousands times better than dagger storm… Against any decent player that skill is only going to get you killed.

Daggerstorm is WAY better. it makes a ranged opponent take 7500 -10k dmg if they dont switch weapons…and if they DO switch weapons you roll out or switch to break and have 8 secs of stability to wallop your opponent. ill take 8 secs of stability (more like 9 idk y but it is) over 1.5 sec stun anyday. if the stun was instant i could use it as a heal stopper but well…thats just not possible.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Elite is a type of a bonus skill in this game. The name is misleading. It doesn’t mean that the skill is strictly better than utility skills.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elite_skill
Elite skills are especially powerful skills designed to be used infrequently and have a dramatic effect on the tide of a battle. The last slot on the skill bar is reserved for elite skills. Elite skills typically have much longer recharge times compared to normal utility skills — very few recharge in less than 60 seconds, and some can take up to 4 minutes.

idk why im even responding to that comment but w.e. yes elite skills are SUPPOSED to be stronger. hence the name and hence the cooldown.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Bane signet has an after cast though, as does say signet of domination. There is no after cast when stunning via basilisk venom.

Also, elite skills are generally weaker than utility skills (no clue why). Shadow Refuge for example is a lot more powerful than the mesmer elite Mass Invisibility.

yes shadow refuge is. but stealth is a primary thief mechanic and mesmers kind of have a slight touch of it. wouldnt make sense to give mesmers alot of stealth. i get ur point but basilisk venom is arguably the worst stun in the game. read the post above this and compare them. basilisk has no dmg. longest cast in game. longest recharge (besides supply crate)….AND its an elite. the rest are regular utilities.

you say elite skills are generally weaker? ummmm…… maybe a few. but every class has 2 strong elites. basilisk venom used to be strong before it was nerfed. it was nerfed bc thieves HAD such high dmg that NOT being able to stun break was near instant death. now that our dmg is roughly 50% lower than it was ages ago….theres no need for basi nerf.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bull%27s_Charge
BULLS CHARGE
Damage Damage: 183
Knockdown: 2 s
Combo Finisher: Leap
Range: 600
Cooldown: 40 s
Activation time: 0 s

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Explosive_Rockets
EXPLOSIVE ROCKETS
Damage: 1,270
Burning: 3 s (984 damage)
Rate of Fire: kitten
Knockdown: 2 s
Duration: 7 s
Radius: 240
Cooldown: 20 s
Activation time: 0 s

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slick_Shoes
SLICK SHOES
Knockdown: 2 s
Duration: 1 s
Blind: 5 s
Cooldown: 60 s
Activation time: 0 s

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scorpion_Wire
SCORPION WIRE
Damage: 122
Knockdown: 2 s
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 1,200
Cooldown: 20 s
Activation time : 1/2 s

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bane_Signet
BANE SIGNET
Passive: Improved power.
Damage: 244
Knockdown: 2 s
Range: 1,200
Cooldown: 40 s
Activation time: 3/4 s

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_
CHARGE
Knockdown: 2 s
Damage: 1,444
Range: 1,200
Cooldown: 40 seconds
Activation time: 0 s

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Supply_Crate
SUPPLY CRATE (yes i know longer cooldown but would trade any day)
Damage: 244
Stun: 2 s
Radius: 240
Combo Finisher: Blast
Range: 1,200
Cooldown: 180 s
Activation time: 1 s

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Electrified_Net
ELECTRIFIED NET
Damage: 318
Immobilized: 3 s
Rate of Fire Increase: 50%
Stun: 2 s
Duration: 10 s
Attack Range: 600
Cooldown: 30 s
Activation time: 0 s

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Domination
SIGNET OF DOMINATION
Passive: Improved condition damage.
Active: Stun your foe.
Signet of Domination: 180 Condition Damage
Stun: 3 s
Range: 1,200
Cooldown: kitten
Activation time: 1/2 s

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthshaker
EARTHSHAKER
Damage: 244
Level 1 stun: 1 s
Level 2 stun: 1½ s
Level 3 stun: 2 s
Radius: 240
Combo Finisher: Blast
Range: 600
Activation time: 3/4 s

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Crack
SKULL CRACK
Damage: 244
Level 1 stun: 1 s
Level 2 stun: 2 s
Level 3 stun: 3 s
Range: 130
Activation time: 0 s

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Strike
WHIRLING STRIKE
Damage: 365
Level 1 stun: 1 s
Level 2 stun: 1½ s
Level 3 stun: 2 s
Combo Finisher: Whirl
Range: 150
Activation time: 3/4 s

this is a list of every stun and KD skill that are readily available without special conditions like underwater or stolen weapons or picking up a bundle. now for a few weapons skills.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Static_Field_
STATIC FIELD
Damage: 185 (0.50057)?
Duration: 4 s
Stun: 2 s
Radius: 180
Combo Field: Lightning
Range: 1,200
Unblockable
Cooldown: 40 s
Activation time: 3/4 S

ADDITIONAL STUN SKILLS
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic_Bullet
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shocking_Aura
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shocking_Aura
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pistol_Whip
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hilt_Bash
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Concussion_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Static_Shield
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_Bash

ADDITIONAL KNOCK DOWN SKILLS
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Line_of_Warding
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ring_of_Warding
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backbreaker
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tremor
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthquake
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gale

All of the above mentioned skills are stronger and better than basilisk venom. there MAY be one or possibly 2 i skimmed over that arent but i dont think so. this is to put our ELITE SKILL “basilisk venom” in perspective. its not an elite…..well not in strength anyway. it should be buffed or every other skill listed above nerfed. :P

DanH.5879:

i think it is too OP in it’s current state !
stun should be reduced to 1 second

in that case bane signet should go down to .25 secs right? since its not even and elite and does dmg and has 1200 range AND is lesser CD. right/?

if ur going to use sword /pistol then in that case spam pistol whip so your evades drop around 3/4’s of the total dmg. its gr8 to use.

Aberrant.6749:

Travlane.5948:

they need the skill at 35 seconds and 1/4 cast time or instant cast better yet. the only way its EVER going to be in the same league as daggerstorm or thievesguild is if that happens. considering that warriors has 4.75 sec immobilize and 2-3 sec stuns and KDs on demand….guardian too. theres no real reason this cant be instant cast and 30-35 sec CD

It’s bad to think like this. What’s ok for one class to have isn’t necessarily ok for another class to have. If you want to put on bask venom on the DL, just stealth and then use it. Instant cast time would mean faster application than the other classes (which have broadcast animations for those attacks).

yeah but anet and thieves are trying to get away from HAVING to use stealth. this reminds me of pistol whip….they need to up the dmg back from that bc the problem was fixed. same here….it has a long cast time bc you were supposed to be able to get away from it….now thakittens been changed so u can get away…it should be insta cast and around 30 seconds. MAYBE even 20 or 25 would be more fair. you think thats CRAYZAY!? lol no its actually right on the money. lets put it this way. put ANY elite thats used on any class in with any other classes REGULAR utilities….would that be fair>? well allow me to explain what im eluding to

Bane Signet
¾ Activation time 40 Recharge time 1 Skill point
Passive: Improved power.
Active: Knock down and damage your foe.
Damage Damage: 244
Knockdown: 2 s
Range: 1,200

Basilisk Venom
1 Activation time 45 Recharge time 10 Skill point
Your next attack turns your foe to stone.
Stun Stone duration: 1.5 s
Venom duration: 30 s

stone is the same as knockdown , at least in effect. bane sig has 2 secs of stun and basilisk venom 1.5. bane sig has 1200 range and basilisk venom has 130-900 max range (weapons). Bane sig has 40 sec cooldown and basilisk venom has 45 seconds! Bane sig is a lower tier utility skill and basilisk venom an ELITE! bane signet is 3/4 cast time and basilisk 1 second! omg it keeps getting better! tell me more tell me more! lol ok heres one more tidbit. BASE DMG on bane sig is 244 and basilisk venom is 0!!! WOAH! ur kidding me! how is bane signet NOT an elite and Basilisk IS! WOAH lol.

ok out of all seriousness we both know that this is really undeniably weak. i mean basilisk venom is less useful than scorpion wire. that is a fact! scorp wire is a 1 sec KD and a gap closer and an interrupter and like half the cast time. basilisk venom really is a joke and its only good to bring to supplement builds that burst. i wouldnt ever b ring it in a duel…never ever ever.

they need the skill at 35 seconds and 1/4 cast time or instant cast better yet. the only way its EVER going to be in the same league as daggerstorm or thievesguild is if that happens. considering that warriors has 4.75 sec immobilize and 2-3 sec stuns and KDs on demand….guardian too. theres no real reason this cant be instant cast and 30-35 sec CD

WereDragon.6083:

The number one way to shut me down is to stop cloak and daggers. Not only does it stifle my healing and condition removal from the shadow arts tree, it severely limits my damage from sneak attacks. It’s going to be a dance, stop the CnD’s and keep the condition purged off you as much as possible.

you have the first half right. this doesnt shut down healing/condi removal/offense…..atleast not yet. this is why GOOD p/d users bring shadow refuge and blinding powder. making them use their utilities like this early is a good way of putting yourself in a winning position! once the utilities are used then put the pressure on with CCs and stuns etc and go for the kill. if a GOOD p/d user has his utilities ready…missing CnD wont matter much until after. also its really hard to counter CnD to steal combo and CnD to Infiltrators signet combo. this is 2 free cloack and daggers every 20 and 30 seconds …..and blinding powder is 40 seconds…..so basically this is what happens…. Cnd —> Infil signet —> sneak attack-—>shadow strike —> pew pew —> CnD —> Steal —> Sneak attack —> Shadow strike —> pew pew —> blinding powder —> sneak attack —>

notice there is a gap pattern with the cooldowns. theres a few variations to this depending on opponent but works really well. try to anticipate somethign along those lines. hope this helps.

Eleir.9325:

To be honest if he is using pistol/dagger you’re done. There isn’t much you can do. The only weakness he has is he can only target one person at a time. 2v1 might work.

i dropped bountiful theft for ricochet in wvw its amazing

improv isnt bugged…i use it only when farming…it just sux :P. it seems to somtimes not proc at all. idk its wierd. it always picks one of the 4 options even if 1 isnt equiped. so you could have 4 venoms up and it only recharge a signet (none of which u have up)

blob bots? thats a new term in my book…can you elaborate?

itamar.4690:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Amins.3710:

Thief stealth mechanics are broken.

End of story.

Anet has their head so far up it that they cannot fix the problem and it’s too rooted into the theif profession that even if they did/could, it would decimate the class w/o restructuring it completely.

Broken class for broken people who like broken ezmode things.

Only then will you learn how to counter a thief.

How to counter a thief-
Step 1: Realize how incredibly stupid your class is in terms of roaming. Accept it.
Step 2: You also need to realize that if you are a thief, you’re set. If you’re anything but a thief, continue to step 3.
Step 3: Quit to desktop OR go to character select. If you chose character select, continue to step 4.
Step 4: Click “Create New Character” button at the bottom left corner. Race/looks doesnt matter. Choose the thief as your profession.
Step 5: Level him to 80.
Step 6: Delete your old character, as Arena-net will continue to nerf your roaming capabilities due to in-experienced thief players complaining about the fact that their class met another class that did something that they do. Then when other players claim the thief is overpowered, they bash them with things like “L2P”. They are people like Zacchary. And he is right. You make a thief. And you level him to 80. And you play that thief. Learn the class, and you can realize this simple, and indisputable fact. A thief, when roaming, will either 1- Kill you. 2- troll your group of 2-8 with relative ease. 3- Realize that the group or single person they just ran across DOES know how to fight a thief. so they run away. Run away. Let that sink in your minds a little. Run away . So how about those other classes. The thief either gets a loot bag, a giggle when he trolls other groups, or no punishment at all when he makes a bad decision. While other classes are painfully punished for roaming. Thief=Extremely low risk, relatively great rewards. Warriors, and thats about it, are the only class that comes close to doing what the thief does. Only without stealth . That’s why they bring up warriors so much. So go ahead. Tell me to learn to play. I am only going to refer you to this post. Especially that part where I mentioned low risk/high reward.

someone is mad..
good thing we have the forums, a therapist isnt a cheap thing u know

you can show people like this videos of other classes doing quite well against thieves but it wont matter. bad players r bad players. they dont realize how susceptable we are to many things and how useless we are in group play but hey. thieves have to be last in everything or they will complain lol. also u dont see AS many videos as thieves bc most other classes stick to groups.

if you won 1 v 5 they were the worst of the worst of the worst of players. no insult to you …im sure u are quite good and w.e. but 1 v 5 is impossible with any build against decent or above players.

and you are exactly right pavel. there are times like that against any build or any class or any player. every build has a nemesis. players build in wvw sothey dont die in a zerg…whcih is smart. but thats also not going to allow them to win a 1 v 1. just like the thief builds we roam with wont allow us to zerg.

generic version runs points in acrobatics and Power lines. :P

Master of Timespace.2548:

Doggie.3184:

But I onry haz 15-17k HP as not entirely GC and full GC Warriors are tanky and can do 1200 range backstab damage w/o needing stealth or flanking and 1shot meh. I dun need nerfed our squishyness is enough sacrifice.
Didn’t catch a screen of the 17k crit Kill Shot. :<

Thief isn’t the only class that get’s downed by warrior specced for f1… Thief ehp isn’t significally lower than that of a guard, only 10% or so, thieves just tend to play a glass spec more often.

As for the topic, I think that d/p is the only build that clearly needs a nerf.

guardians have the sam hp pool but so much more toughness so there is a BIG difference between guard/thief being kill shotted. also d/p isnt OP…just has variety of skills that are viable and balanced. d/p is actually at mercy alot….. if u cant figure out how and why…. :P well then its a L2p issue. there are actually other thief builds that are overall a lil stronger.

flossie.3054:

Travlane.5948:

i only see lemongrass runes prolly about 15-20% of the time. even so never noticed it bothering me. i played d/p for so long and ended up switching bc of its shortcomings .
i’d say half are condi half are d/p right now in wvw. in spvp id say 60 40 from s/d to p/d

I’ve hardly seen any P/D thieves in WvW.

D/P is by far the most prevalent currently; upwards of 75% of thieves I see roaming are running it. Then would probably be D/D 2nd and S/D 3rd. P/D and P/P are rare to see, can easily go a few days without seeing a thief holding a pistol anywhere but in their offhand.

oh? i see alot on my server nowadays. idk maybe its a lil diff here.

Big Tower.5423:

D/D is still competly viable and just as good as d/p. The meta is d/d and d/p, condtions are useless in wvwvw really.

wvw is ALL about conditions and survivability. actually. only time a zerk build helps is if u are roaming and doing 1 v 1 or small kitten like that. oh and yeah thats useless to the server :P hence…..zerk is useless

i only see lemongrass runes prolly about 15-20% of the time. even so never noticed it bothering me. i played d/p for so long and ended up switching bc of its shortcomings .
i’d say half are condi half are d/p right now in wvw. in spvp id say 60 40 from s/d to p/d

wish.1027:

PVE = sword/pistol and dagger/dagger melee damage builds depending on how many mobs youre fighting.

People say silly things about condition damage being awesome, but you shouldnt believe them. S/P with a bit into acrobatics lets you drop smoke fields 24/7 and stand in them taking 0 damage while you beat everything down in full berserker gear not caring about dodging or healing yourself like a boss.

he has a point here but thats a zerkish build and still has the ability to die. even with smoke fields u cant take on 10+ at the same time. but even so unless ur in orr area that wont be happening.

xmtrcv.5236:

Travlane.5948:

nick go to spvp and duel some with each. get some practice in. your first set is always the hardest to earn.

@HYPE….yeah p/d is called a troll build. thats the generic version. any good version is actually much superior. but as you said if ur running dungeons mostly yeah…rock with 75% zerk 25% valk. basically run valk til you get around 15k hp then the rest should be zerk. thats a generally decent standard to go by.

Please define why P/D is a “troll” build. Feel free to detail what the “generic” troll build is versus any “good” version that is actually “much superior”.

I think it is NOT a troll build. quite the contrary. i guess you COULD troll with it. but def a very deadly build.