Guild Wars 2

Well you can run Ventari/Jalis but for WvW Ventari/Glint is more effective as a support.
Regen is affected by boon duration and the last time I checked it was being affected by envoy of sustenance.

Buff/Boons and healing are applied according to the priority:

• party/subsquad->squad->Other Players->NPCs.

For targets within the same priority level I believe it’s the closest to the center of the effect that gets priority. If a target is already at full health he is disregarded for healing.

Ventari/Glint is a good support for WvW, specially, because of protective solace.
In terms of healing/buffs Ventari/Glint is behind Druids/Tempests by a considerable margin requiring a few buffs but it’s a lot more fun IMO.

On event tagging as long as you do any damage in the event area your buffs and heals will convert a percentage of the damage from the affected person into damage for you for tagging purposes.
Engineers are currently the weakest support that I can imagine and that affects your capacity to tag beyond the damage. I have no difficulties obtaining full contribution on any events with Ventari/Glint.

On regen I think you might have confused a few things given your rune example.
Unless a specific boon/condition is being enhanced by a duration boost that only affects that boon/condition, they won’t show when you mouse over boon/condition duration.

Malchior.5732:

Varezenem.2813:

Rym.1469:

Just nerf Riposting Shadows to restore 30 endurance and Revenant is more than back in line. I’ve been saying it since Pro League qualifiers.

Oh and give us other stunbreak. Would help.

I can agree with that. =p

No, because that would involve actually doing thoughtful changes.

Well we can always hope…

PaPa Theos.4160:

I’m level 35 Shiro/Mallyx S/A build; doing a bit of stance swapping. Invocation 3.1.1. What’s a good balance between precision and ferocity? Because of the fury gains, is ferocity a somewhat wasted stat?

At a higher level ferocity is more important since precision has a cap (that’s easy to achieve).
Usually power is preferred.
If you want to know which stat you should invest in you can use sites like http://gw2power.com/ to maximize your effective power.
You can also use spreadsheets and macros for a higher accuracy.

If you are below level 80 just take whatever strong/honed equipment you can or berserker when available.

Also I’m not sure if you are confused but precision increases critical chance and ferocity critical damage. Fury increases critical chance.

Rym.1469:

Just nerf Riposting Shadows to restore 30 endurance and Revenant is more than back in line. I’ve been saying it since Pro League qualifiers.

Oh and give us other stunbreak. Would help.

I can agree with that. =p

Kuya.6495:

I think bunker/support ele does so well because it covers one glaring weakness ele has (low hp, low armor) while providing valuable support to its team through healing and auras. A glass ele is too much of a liability in pro league. I get that some eles might want more variety in their choices, but right now we got at least 3 classes that aren’t being played in pro league (warrior, guard, thf) that need attention, and one class that is being stacked (revs).

Revs got stacked for two reasons.
1. They scale well with bunker eles
2. They were used during the last meta, therefore required less time to practice.

Kuya.6495:

Alekt.5803:

Kuya.6495:

Alekt.5803:

Kuya.6495:

Could the OP at least explain why he want these nerfs? I’m at a loss.

What do you think kept the revenants alive during the finals?

So?

Maybe they are overperforming?

You’re defining overperforming as being the healer in a group. I don’t think that’s necessarily true, especially if the healer can be bursted and the healer can’t burst back.

I think support ele is fine. I believe a better definition of overperformance might be rev, given that most teams ran two of them.

They ran two because they scale well with external healing/cleansing. And they had practiced rev during the last season.

Alekt.5803:

Kuya.6495:

Could the OP at least explain why he want these nerfs? I’m at a loss.

What do you think kept the revenants alive during the finals?

You are right about this one. Not that this is a real problem.

Kuya.6495:

Varezenem.2813:

Kuya.6495:

Could the OP at least explain why he want these nerfs? I’m at a loss.

He dislikes eles being bunker/support. He prefers going glass.

Ah.

Sounds pretty petty of him.

Well that’s the short reason, gathered through his threads.
The longer one is
He worries that all ele nerfs and lack of buffs to Scepter FA is a consequence of the effectiveness of bunker Eles. That’s not entirely unreasonable but requesting a general nerf to all builds because of that isn’t reasonable. It’s better to check where and why bunker ele over performs and nerf that while buffing other builds to be closer to the original.
Well he does have a tendency to not review things from a broader perspective…

Kuya.6495:

Could the OP at least explain why he want these nerfs? I’m at a loss.

He dislikes eles being bunker/support. He prefers going glass.

musu.9205:

I think it’s actually a good thing :one class is good at certain role ,now if only anet could give ele more roles which will be better also make other classes(like war ,guard ,mes) good at something else with the clear weakness unlike rev

Rev is weak to condition damage and unlockable skills. In particular reapers.

Arkantos.7460:

rly you can block 2 times, walk while block, more dps, cc
heal on shield isnt that high and forced on place while heal/block

It’s only useful it if you have more than 700 HPower

Zenith.7301:

Anyone who played Revenant during beta weekends knew the class was going to be broken as hell.

The highest autoattack dps in game, their teleport is tied to an immunity window and does about 3-4x as much as a mesmer’s blurred frenzy, which is stationary and doesn’t give you 7 might stacks.

Medium health, high armor, the best heal in the game with glint, ridiculous access to quickness individually, and the one class able to passively stack 10 might and perma fury on himself before an engagement.

Revenant is like a thief with high armor, even better defenses, and more HP.

It is the culmination of all the class feedback for previous crappy core classes, made into an improved new class.

Meanwhile core classes only got elite specs as a real improvement.

What year are we in?

Exciton.8942:

Well, at least Revs got a pretty good variety right now.
You see 3/5 legends being used. You see 5/6 trait lines being used. You see only two weapons not being used.

There are 2 mandatory traitlines for revenants Retribution and Herald.
Mallyx might be used in unranked but I don’t remember seeing Mallyx in the ESL.

Alekt.5803:

Split Cleric Amulet in a four stat amulet.

no

Arkantos.7460:

just cleanse 3 condis on Legend swap ….THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I hope that you are kidding…

DHawk.2687:

LucianDK.8615:

Revs only have average damage now. And the shield is junk, the piddly heal is not worth the self root. And they explicitly said they had it selfrooting because the heal was good, and theyd have to weaken the heal if they removed the selfroot. Then what do they go and do? Weaken the heal while keeping the root.

took away the stun break

There was no stunbreak what they said is “We gave facet of light a cast time because it was being used as a stunbreak”. Also it’s just as strong as your oponents mindlessness be it in teamfights or in 1v1.

Burtnik.5218:

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

Jalis can die to condi while Mallyx will die to a burst/hard cc. Its also a selfish build that doesnt bring much in terms of a support.

Ventari will work best with Glint imo or Jalis.

Are they really running double rev again?

I agree that Ventari works better with Jalis and Glint =p. What I’m saying is just to check if mallyx/jalis might be a problem due to the high damage mitigation (instead of heal).

They also run with shield, yep. These guys have not adapted at all.

As for Mallyx/Jalis i already explained. However if there will be some issues what you want is get rid of condi reduction/cleanse on Jalis. But i doubt it as Mallyx is really easy to burst.

Atm looking for a name to boon trait (1% duration per boon). Facet will apply aoe 360 radius burn for 4 sec. 1 stack. What i am looking into is hammer/shield and that all imo. Feel free to theorycraft

Well for the boon trait Ministrels Enhancement?

Malchior.5732:

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

It’s okay. It’s not like this game is truly competitive anyway. It’s a mess.

Double khylo ;p

Burtnik.5218:

QQ in 3…2….1… bc teams runs 2 revs /shrug

Jalis can die to condi while Mallyx will die to a burst/hard cc. Its also a selfish build that doesnt bring much in terms of a support.

Ventari will work best with Glint imo or Jalis.

Are they really running double rev again?

I agree that Ventari works better with Jalis and Glint =p. What I’m saying is just to check if mallyx/jalis might be a problem due to the high damage mitigation (instead of heal).

Burtnik.5218:

One for adept (facet) one for minor. Not sure about the numbers

Well I think we have reached a good point in balance with possible salvation/ventari combinations. On the bunker side what’s left to judge is the efficiency of Jalis/Mallyx IMO a good balance point is it being a great far/home holder but weaker in teamfights.
This probably can be achieved by checking if a necro/mallyx has enough pressure to take one down in teamfights.
The problem is I’m probably not the best suited to judge it since I lack practice with it.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Of course, let’s make revs jack of all trade. Oh I am sorry, I forgot revs weren’t supposed to have any weakness. How silly of me, OP you are totally right. It’s about time for revs to go back on GODLY GOD tier.

I never said the jalis should get more condi resistance did I? I said that his request for a buff is valid. If you look in the rev subforum the suggested version of jalis is weaker to condis than it currently is but it works better.

Burtnik.5218:

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

So i guess -10% damage to allies near the tablet.
Eventually it could change enemy projectiles to healing bolts for allies from deflect..

Which one at this point?

And what about this adept tier for herald;

Reveal the darkness – cast gaze of darkness when you hit a stealted foe in 360 radius. 20cd

Hmm better use it as a stunbreak IMO there is already enough stealth hate.
For a GM I think you can do both 10% damage reduction and projectiles->heal but make it be about 2/3 of the druid healing.

Enough stealth hate? Nah, theres never enough but k. Got some more..

Consuming facet burn nearly foes
Reduce incoming damage for each boon currently on you
Outgoing boon duration is increased for each boon on you

The first and the third are interesting the third would fit more the line.

mysterion.1276:

(Please dont move it into revenant forum since this suggestions are meant for pvp)

While you might not want to, the rev forum is the right one. Balance concerns over here are meant to be about profession interactions and stuff that affects the game mode directly.
There are topics about this in the rev forum and if you want please take part on the discussions over this there.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Lmao, this post is comical. A rev asking for a buff, now I have seen it all.

This is a fairly ignorant statement he isn’t requesting to buff what works, he is requesting to buff what doesn’t work. If you are complaining about any profession being weaker than the elite one you are being a pretty darmn hypocrite.

I meant sigil of strength (I always switch these two) this sigil and food have the same cooldown strength has a 60% chance though. If you experiment with strength you’ll see that it is easy to cap might with that and FoS.

draxynnic.3719:

Easiest ways of getting the theoretical maximum are Impossible Odds or having someone stand on Inspiring Reinforcement. In most circumstances, you only tend to get about 4 might stacks out of it, which seems reasonable (120 power and condition

There is a easier way, sigil of battle. Or food

Guardians can stealth by using runes of the trapper. They all could obtain stealth through blast/leap finishers but I’m not sure who could provide the smokefield in this comp.

ronpierce.2760:

Fashion Mage.3712:

“We’re removing the Vigilant amulet because it offers 1050 toughness”

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cavalier_Amulet
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knight_Amulet
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crusader_Amulet

I mean, if you guys aren’t going to use logic, at least stop pretending that you have any.

They said 4-stat amulet logic. 3 stats have a total of 1200 of a particular defensive stat, where as a main stat Defensive amulet with 4 stats (assuming 2 are defensive) would be closer to 1610. They already said they were looking at Crusader Amulet.

That said, though, that leaves Cleric’s in a bit of a pickle because their combined total is 1800 worth of defensive stat points because it holsters two 900-point defensive slots. I’m not really sure what to say about clerics. Maybe they don’t feel its as much of an issue because it has very little damage potential? It is a weird decision though.

Cavalier and Knights though really aren’t a problem.

Edit: I’d consider Vigilant’s Concentration benefit to be a defense-oriented (or at least Support oriented) stat, and the same argument could be made with Expertise. Though, I’m not sure the amulet really was a problem, I guess they’re just trying to be consistent.

It’s actually 2100 in defensive status but it has no damage and has no vit also the extra toughness gives only about 10% extra damage reduction (vs 20~23%) over 4 stats secondary.

Marthkus.4615:

Note: Shiro quickness gathers materials faster.

It makes all* actions faster. ;p

*except for a few new chosen ones like ressing and defensive skills

Burtnik.5218:

So i guess -10% damage to allies near the tablet.
Eventually it could change enemy projectiles to healing bolts for allies from deflect..

Which one at this point?

And what about this adept tier for herald;

Reveal the darkness – cast gaze of darkness when you hit a stealted foe in 360 radius. 20cd

Hmm better use it as a stunbreak IMO there is already enough stealth hate.
For a GM I think you can do both 10% damage reduction and projectiles->heal but make it be about 2/3 of the druid healing.

Malchior.5732:

Morfedel.4165:

But guys, come on, I SAID I had had success with it personally, but that I also only ran it a few times. Can you chill with the insults and let me actually get back on feedback? Good god….

No one insulted you. Anecdotal evidence alone doesn’t mean much. It’s a known fact that Reaper has all the tools necessary to completely annihilate literally any Revenant build. Again, the only real chance you have is catching one while he/she’s weak or teaming up on one.

Exactly.

Morfedel.4165:

But guys, come on, I SAID I had had success with it personally, but that I also only ran it a few times. Can you chill with the insults and let me actually get back on feedback? Good god….

If you have done it before the demonic defiance nerf then it’s partially explained. Even though after it while hard it was still possible. But if you aren’t playing since the jan26 patch that explains a lot since that was when necros corruption got buffed.

Also there is no problem providing feedback but you shouldn’t spread misinformation. If you weren’t playing for a while specify since when, if you want to talk about a specific skill/trait check your sources.

Morfedel.4165:

Varezenem.2813:

Morfedel.4165:

Varezenem.2813:

Morfedel.4165:

Varezenem.2813:

Morfedel.4165:

Except unyielding anguish also torments them

Torment isn’t useful if you don’t have condi damage and it can be used against you by for example using consume conditions. If you are running a condi build then you really shouldn’t engage them they’ll out sustain you, use your resistance against you and use you condis against you.

If I have the trait that lets you generate resistance every time I use a demon stance, they cant keep corrupting that spammably.

Demonic defiance has a 5sec ICD, Scepter AA has none…

So you are basing all of this on the auto attack? I have a mace that torments and poisons during auto attacks. So why does my AA not count and his does?

There is a small difference of about 670 range, condi transfers, condi cleanses and 20k+ HP.

Unyielding anguish leaps 600, I can also condi transfer with pulsating pestilence, reduce condi damage by as much as 70%, wash off all condis with my jalis heal, spam resistance faster than he can corrupt it, convert up to 5 condis into boons because I’m using runes of lyssa, etc etc.

How long should we continue this?

You really lack knowledge about it don’t you?
On UA so what?
Pulsating pestilence doesn’t work it only applies a stack of torment, also it’s not a transfer it’s supposed to be a copy (like EtD was).

On a 45sec cooldown and it’s 50%… (Unless you are actually using jalis or some specific runes…)

Jalis heal only cleanses 3 conditions (unless there is a unlisted bug) and it’s after healing that means that if you are poisoned…
Since you said you are running lyssa that’s on a 45sec cooldown…

And he can remove your boons faster than you can reapply
corrupt boon can remove 3 boons every 10 seconds or he can remove 3 every 15 second and 2 every 5 second while in shroud. Also Scepter AA takes 2.4 seconds to complete.
Resistance can be reapplied at best around every 4sec ~ if you really want to push it every 2.5 secs…

Morfedel.4165:

Varezenem.2813:

Morfedel.4165:

Varezenem.2813:

Morfedel.4165:

Except unyielding anguish also torments them

Torment isn’t useful if you don’t have condi damage and it can be used against you by for example using consume conditions. If you are running a condi build then you really shouldn’t engage them they’ll out sustain you, use your resistance against you and use you condis against you.

If I have the trait that lets you generate resistance every time I use a demon stance, they cant keep corrupting that spammably.

Demonic defiance has a 5sec ICD, Scepter AA has none…

So you are basing all of this on the auto attack? I have a mace that torments and poisons during auto attacks. So why does my AA not count and his does?

There is a small difference of about 670 range, condi transfers, condi cleanses and 20k+ HP.

All heals scale terribly with HPower except shield 5. On Ventari self sustain scales somewhat lowish while the outgoing healing scales well.
Unfortunately even at its best it’s outclassed by druids/tempests.

Morfedel.4165:

Varezenem.2813:

Morfedel.4165:

Except unyielding anguish also torments them

Torment isn’t useful if you don’t have condi damage and it can be used against you by for example using consume conditions. If you are running a condi build then you really shouldn’t engage them they’ll out sustain you, use your resistance against you and use you condis against you.

If I have the trait that lets you generate resistance every time I use a demon stance, they cant keep corrupting that spammably.

Demonic defiance has a 5sec ICD, Scepter AA has none…

Morfedel.4165:

Except unyielding anguish also torments them

Torment isn’t useful if you don’t have condi damage and it can be used against you by for example using consume conditions. If you are running a condi build then you really shouldn’t engage them they’ll out sustain you, use your resistance against you and use you condis against you.

The Ace.9105:

Varezenem.2813:

The Ace.9105:

Varezenem.2813:

The Ace.9105:

khani.4786:

Oh joy….the bursty meta is going to be so much more fun. rolls eyes

I mean exact same kind of meta than the last one where no one dies and the first to capture a point wins.

Because you can’t kill the ele yourself right? If it still causes any problems the problem isn’t the amulet…

It’s not about killing the ele myself. Like i said no one dies. Imagine having bunker mesmer that heals allies at the same time.

Clerics amulet has a inherent weakness to condition damage while the power damage mitigation provided by all the toughness it gives is about 33% on light armoured and 29% on heavy.
If this amount is a problem the problem is more likely to be with the tempest than the amulet.

Well, ele with any other amulet is basically useless and I think ele is the only class that uses cleric effectively atm.

But not in the past and I can’t remember any build that was OP while wearing it before.
I’m not against tempest improvements but if they caused the same problem while wearing two different amulets, the problem isn’t the amulet.

Clerics can be used by revenants and druids it’s just less effective.

The Ace.9105:

Varezenem.2813:

The Ace.9105:

khani.4786:

Oh joy….the bursty meta is going to be so much more fun. rolls eyes

I mean exact same kind of meta than the last one where no one dies and the first to capture a point wins.

Because you can’t kill the ele yourself right? If it still causes any problems the problem isn’t the amulet…

It’s not about killing the ele myself. Like i said no one dies. Imagine having bunker mesmer that heals allies at the same time.

Clerics amulet has a inherent weakness to condition damage while the power damage mitigation provided by all the toughness it gives is about 33% on light armoured and 29% on heavy.
If this amount is a problem the problem is more likely to be with the tempest than the amulet.

The Ace.9105:

khani.4786:

Oh joy….the bursty meta is going to be so much more fun. rolls eyes

I mean exact same kind of meta than the last one where no one dies and the first to capture a point wins.

Because you can’t kill the ele yourself right? If it still causes any problems the problem isn’t the amulet…

LucianDK.8615:

Sword 1 is only single target damage.

Nope it’s 3 and rift is applied to 3 targets hitting 9 targets.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Preparation_Thrust

Morfedel.4165:

ArthurDent.9538:

Marthkus.4615:

I play necros. The one’s who reck my face either use CC or kiting. Very few people just straight up fight.

That is a large part of the problem rev only has one ranged weapon and it has no way of maintaining distance from the necro.

Mallyx unyielding anguish and kite with hammer.

It’s easier to just use sword and precision strike.

Pazu.8320:

Anyway, thanks for making a nice post about Ventari. I think it’s a very unique playstyle and would prefer to play it over my druid sometimes. I play healer/tank with Ventari/Glint rev on VG this week for fun (tank mainly because there’s no good way to get around having high toughness without completely ruining your healing ability). It was actually quite fun and very active compared to playing druid, which is just walking near people and spamming all the crazy strong effortless heals.

Cheers!

My idea about that is instead of increasing the offensive support of Ventari (that also goes against his theme) is allowing ventari/glint to act as a tank/healer freeing up a slot for another DPS.
Also except for the healing the advantage might be diminished depending on the mechanics for the next raid wing. By for example requiring more projectile hate.
The amount of offensive support a ventari/glint revenant can do is exactly the same as a power rev since we can take the same traits (deva/herald).

Burtnik.5218:

Varezenem.2813:

Burtnik.5218:

Little updates;

1.Roots removed from the list. Lets keep it as regen around the tablet

2.Elluding Nullification – Cast lesser Purifying Essence on a dodge (1 condi cleanse). 10cd.

3.Natural Abundance – Empty for now. Thinking about;

20% regen effe
reduced damage to allies near the tablet (10%)

4. Purifying Essence – back to 3 condi cleanse.

Still thinking about herald traits cough.

20% effectiveness and 10% damage reduction are a good choice. Weakness is a better choice if you want to put a secondary effect. Slow might be too strong.

20% regen steps a bit on selfless tho.. So i guess damage reduction near the tablet

Then 20% regen could be placed into herald if it wont be too much healing in adept

It’s about as selfish as a Salvation trait can get =p. From what I can see with this change the overall sustain in the salvation line is about the same while enhancing support and control.

Burtnik.5218:

Little updates;

1.Roots removed from the list. Lets keep it as regen around the tablet

2.Elluding Nullification - Cast lesser Purifying Essence on a dodge (1 condi cleanse). 10cd.

3.Natural Abundance – Empty for now. Thinking about;

20% regen effe
reduced damage to allies near the tablet (10%)

4. Purifying Essence - back to 3 condi cleanse.

Still thinking about herald traits cough.

20% effectiveness and 10% damage reduction are a good choice. Weakness is a better choice if you want to put a secondary effect. Slow might be too strong.

Froptimus.6741:

I tried to run a Ventari/Herald cleric build a while back and ran into the same thing Verazenem mentioned: self-healing is VERY lacking.

That much is intentional and even needed. If Ventari didn’t have this limitation he would be OP in conquest. Self sustain got a bit below where it should be after the shield 5 nerf and it should be compensated.
I mentioned it to not give the wrong impression.

bearshaman.3421:

ah ok. thanks. So using SotW kicks you out of CA. Does SotP do that also?

No because SotP isn’t a transform. SotW didn’t look like it mechanically but given the fact that you get bigger it might work like one.

Ohoni.6057:

That’s the main issue, it’s a system that gives bonus rewards to the people who are already doing very well for themselves, since they’re already winning multiple matches, rather than helping to even things out for the players who are not doing as well.

That’s completely intentional. It isn’t meant to be easier to grind, it is meant to put you in your proper place fast.
Given all your previous posts you’ll likely complain more because you want the rewards, I don’t necessarily disagree with making the rewards more available but this is meant as a raking system.

Kaizoku.1298:

Ventari could still use some work

Are you sure you are in the right subforum?
I believe you were looking for this

On a serious note if you want to partake in balance discussion burtniks thread

Burtnik.5218:

As for my skill level the other day in s1 i played a couple of matchs with cleric ventari+glint decap build.

Good work on that one :p . Didn’t play PvP after the condi domination in the beggining of this patch how are things looking now?