This is the real problem. Ofc combined with a higher amount of cleanses and considerable increase in CC defense.
We already have some really strong active defenses. Our heals are fairly strong on others with that change you would literally be able to self heal for more than 3k/sec on a profession with high power damage mitigation and active defenses. Example EE fragments would heal you for around 3.5k each NH and envoy would heal for 4.5k-5k (and you even lowered the cost on NH….).
I think making the tablet appear when you switch ventari, and changing energy expulsion to where after it explodes it reforms at your location would help, and when you hit the leash range, it appears at you would help too.
Agree that natural harmony is fine really, just needs an energy cost reduction, possibly make it a stunbreaker?
Protective solace is great.
Purifying essence is fine.
Energy expulsion I think make it so the shards also cleanse conditions. Maybe 1 so that way the GM trait for shards is also fair.
Salvation line could also use some help to buff ventari and staff even. Make the outgoing healing modifiers also affect us, change that dodge trait to make it so the tablet cleanses 1 condition every 3 seconds, make it so the blind and protection on heal traits happen at the tablet’s location as well as ours.
You do realize that this would be completely broken in conquest right? And that it would result in a heavy nerf in less than a day.
i hit much harder, with a similar cooldown, with maul on my ranger. And thats a true AoE. And I can buff it like crazy too.
Rather than nerfing TS, perhaps we should bring up the similar skills to the maul/ts level,.
You are lying or misinformed Maul has a 1.6 coefficient TS has a 2.5 (56% more) coefficient.
To be able to hit anywhere near TS you would need quite a few damage modifiers.
1) This entire thread I’ve been noting that PvE = open-world for my purposes and when I say PvE I don’t mean instanced content. How you think I said hammer is strong in instanced content I have no idea.
2) It’s true that most of the balance happens around PvP, but saying that open-world doesn’t need to be balanced is nonsense. It does need it, and it gets it all the time. It shouldn’t be the focus of balance, but neither should it (or will it) be ignored or allowed to become unbalanced. The fact that all weapons are viable there has zero bearing on that.
Let’s be honest the relevance of game-modes in balancing decisions is pretty much:
SPvP
Raids/Fractals
You shouldn’t be using the skills on cooldown… Simply reducing the energy cost is the wrong way to go as it would make energy a non-mechanic. What they should do is increase the effects to be worth the energy cost.
you have an energy rgn rate of 5 per second. you are using the heal basically every two seconds, so you have hardly any energy regeneration if you are keeping the heals and protection up.
Natural Harmony costs too much for how poor the heal is. It needs a buff in healing, or at least needs to scale better.
Purifying Essence costs too much imo. I find I hardly ever have the energy to use it if i’m microing the tablet and using weapon skills. moving it down from 30 to 20, or even 25 would be a big deal and would help a lot.
Currently the total cooldown on tablet movement is around 2.7 seconds, if they make it instant it would be 2 seconds.
While I do agree that PE isn’t at a good cost/cooldown for the effect there are more ways to do this (IMO it shouldn’t be below 25 energy cost). Burtniks suggestion included removing the cooldown.
On NH it’s obvious that it doesn’t do enough for the cost in my own suggestion it was included that the scaling should go to 1 (from 0.6).
But the point is, simply reducing the energy cost is a bad way to solve the problem as it would lead unskilled play and a removal of the mechanic.
You shouldn’t be using the skills on cooldown… Simply reducing the energy cost is the wrong way to go as it would make energy a non-mechanic. What they should do is increase the effects to be worth the energy cost.
The overwhelming consensus last season was that revenant was overpowered. I thought nerfing overpowered classes lead to balance (you know, that thing all players want and devs actively work towards)?
The “Op” in sPvP was conditional build. The nerfs were all to power build. Makes sense does not?!
I played power rev and it did feel strong in 1v1 and securing stomp scenarios (between sword 5 or staff 5 for helping someone else secure a stomp by pushing off rezzers or dodge for stability for stomping ourselves) and a well timed jade winds could radically change things in a group fight on point.
Mallyx revs did feel quite strong though, the torment and confusion are an ugly combination since they make a player defeat themselves (confusion causes harm if you use a skill while torment does damage while you move) but were still somewhat beatable. Conditions across the board need toning down especially after the introduction of Viper’s where there are stats dedicated to prolonging them on top of the added potency.
I could not resist picking on your post. So we are balancing stuff based on 1v1 now?! And rev was not and is not the strongest point holder by any means. May I add that all what you mentioned, sword 5, staff and Jade wind, are still the same. So based on your statement I can conclude that anet nerfed the wrong stuff, right?
To be fair, I think Anet had the right ideas in mind, but the execution was beyond terrible. What is really disappointing is that the under/non performing skills/traits are untouched. So we nerf power, leave everything else the same, call it a day, and play a different class I guess.
You have to remember that amulets were removed so opponents are far less tanky now. Yeah the facet of light nerf wasn’t necessary while Mallyx could be over the top. The autoattack sustain was also quite high and still decent and everyone said UA was over the top (as bugged as it could get). It might have got hit too hard but it only seemed balanced in the context of an overly tanky bunker meta, which is gone now. Rev does have weaknesses (like heals depending on conditional factors like getting hit or hitting someone else and poor condition cleansing) but one must be aware of them and try working around them.
I wanted them to buff Ventari but it could have been a delicate balancing act since if they reduced the charge time and energy requirements to seemingly reasonable levels it might end up OP in node battles but I personally think it’d be balanced out by a relatively high skill floor. There are times you need to use weapons and times you’d need to cleanse, heal, and even burst the tablet for a tactical knockback. The legend should probably be reworked at a deeper level than even that though.
Well IMO removing the cast time on movement will rise the skill ceiling by a lot.
Assuming the Stun Break is around the Tablet, I think that would be more than fair (even if it was player + Tablet, it’d be fair).
1. Needs to be aimed and the location of the tablet needs to be considered constantly.
2. 25 Energy isn’t cheap.
3. You either save it for Condition Cleansing or for Stun breaking (or both). There’s a clear opportunity cost here, but also helps save you from getting Fear-chained by a Condi Necro or something.
I think it would be fine. At worst, and I really don’t think it’d be necessary, increase the Cooldown a tad.
It was meant as centered around the tablet. And your conclusion seems to be the same.
Question wasnt really aimed towards me but if anything it should be a self stunbreak with 30 energy that can happen only in youre in radius of the tablet. We actually have a trait in herald to aoe stunbreaking. I would remove the cd tho. Only cc skills should have cd’s really as rest can and should be managed by energy.
This version could work too. The overall condi cleanse output wouldn’t change but we would be able to spike it.
Following you idea of removing the cooldown on all utilities, except CC, how would you make it work with the tablet movement/summoning while reducing the clunkiness?
I prefer Jalis to stay boonless with unique buffs so we can benefit from protection shared by other classes. After all core rev is not supposed to be build around boons unlike herald which was supposed to alter playstyle. I gave some weeks ago suggestion to Enhanced Bulwark to improve protection by up to 40% like ele trait as it a source of all the problems with stab on dodge.. but lets look how it turned out.
I think the only legend that should be without stunbreaks is Mallyx that should be nearly immune to conditions as tradeoff. Decent system would be to make x legend being strong at x thing but being weak to x thing so players can work around it and exploit our weakness. Say Jalis being extremely resistant to power damage and hard cc but weak to soft cc and conditions in general.
That’d be great too.
I just want Mallyx to be that all-out, offensive beast. A high-risk, high-reward Condition Legend (or alternatively a more midrange-type deal, but with far better defense against Conditions than the others) while Jalis can be that reliable, hard-to-take down wall, but can succumb to soft-CC and Condi-bombs.
In your opinion, after removing enhanced bulwark, how strong would it be to give purifying essence an AoE stunbreak and reducing the energy cost to 25?
I think they also have to consider that Ventari has no Stun Breakers. That should be included when balancing his healing/cleansing. If you’re forced to swap for Defense, you have to sacrifice the Tablet and all of its sustain/defense.
No doubt but we are far less prone to CC, thanks to enhanced bulkwark + Unwavering avoidance, compared to druids and tempests. Of course this was already nerfed and they’ll probably need to take that into account.
I think that’s another issue. Being pushed into Retribution + Herald just for Stab isn’t very healthy, I feel.
It covers our CC weakness in a way, but it also means we need to take 2x trait lines just so we don’t get stunned so easily and repeatedly, when I think that should be covered by the Legends mostly. Like, if you take a vulnerable Legend like Mallyx or Ventari, you should try to cover it with either Shiro or Jalis, who should both have good Stun Breaks or emergency buttons.
It’s a crutch, I feel, and it should be changed. Particularly Enhanced Bulwark since it’s the real root of the issue, doesn’t make sense in the Herald line anyway, and it isn’t healthy for a class to have such easy, brainless access to Stability. I would honestly prefer it if Unwavering Avoidance gave us Protection (something Jalis lacks) and Enhanced Bulwark modified Protection in some way to benefit both Legends/Trait lines along with much-needed Jalis buffs.
This is something I can agree on. But if they did it they would have to greatly increase ventaris access to cleanses or stability/stun breaks. It would probably be the latter to avoid a overly heavy synergy with jalis.
I prefer Jalis to stay boonless with unique buffs so we can benefit from protection shared by other classes. After all core rev is not supposed to be build around boons unlike herald which was supposed to alter playstyle. I gave some weeks ago suggestion to Enhanced Bulwark to improve protection by up to 40% like ele trait as it a source of all the problems with stab on dodge.. but lets look how it turned out.
I think the only legend that should be without stunbreaks is Mallyx that should be nearly immune to conditions as tradeoff.
Sounds good too. Including a stunbreak in is somewhat hard too TBH.
I think they also have to consider that Ventari has no Stun Breakers. That should be included when balancing his healing/cleansing. If you’re forced to swap for Defense, you have to sacrifice the Tablet and all of its sustain/defense.
No doubt but we are far less prone to CC, thanks to enhanced bulkwark + Unwavering avoidance, compared to druids and tempests. Of course this was already nerfed and they’ll probably need to take that into account.
Who is this guy who have take the name of a famous witcher? A “pro player” i assume. And, coz he has said mesmer are op everyone have to follow him for sure. Non talking about the fact that mesmer have been huge nerfed too.
Anyway i’m tired of this ball game with everyone saying “you’re op” “we’re not”! It’s so childlish.
Talking about “fine” state of the revenant now. I think more people here are not really complaining coz of sword or shield nerf, it’s not the the real problem. The problem is, like 90% of people here are saying, that,that for a classe who can choose 5 legends, being stuck in only two is really odd. People here are complaining about the lot of bugs revenant still have 6 months after his realease and the useless state of the tanking and the healer legends, who are never used coz they are so bad compared to others. Revenant still feel like a class which is not finished, and it’s actually the reality.(just take a look to corruption traitline which is still designed for old condition eater Mallyx) That’s why more people are complaining here.
The overwhelming consensus last season was that revenant was overpowered. I thought nerfing overpowered classes lead to balance (you know, that thing all players want and devs actively work towards)?
People don’t see the whole picture. They see what they want to see, exclude the rest, ignore parts of the reality that prevent them from coming to logical conclusions. It’s easier to ragepost than it is to think how to adapt, though one is more effective than the other.
Or maybe we don’t mind the nerfs, but hate the fact that all the weak aspects were completely untouched?
I agree that people don’t see the whole picture. That much is clear from your post and many others.
Ventari needs serious fixing but if it’s tweaked to be viable in PvP it may be “OP” in PvE. Yet another solution that can be solved by separate balancing. To be PvP ready it needs faster charge times and less energy consumption. By the time it pumps out a heal or even cleanse the players you wanted to heal or cleanse would likely have ran out of the tablet’s range.
I’m fairly sure it will hardly be OP in pve before being OP in conquest. In PvE it’s all about damage. Tempest and Druid bring in more than enough healing. What ventari can’t do is getting even close to Druids offensive support while maintains the minimum amount of healing.
Normally it’s the case that something is OP in PvP first (players have fewer immunities and much less HP than bosses and even elite and vet trash mobs) but the very nature of PvP battles and the unique mechanics behind the tablet say such a buff would make it so. In PvP on a small point consistently upkeeping cleanse and healing on a point will be a bit of a challenge and still need to use weapon skills but skills like scorpion wire and point blank shot would get their teammates out of the tablet’s range (the shield skill would put healing on hold making them vulnerable to the melee inside) so it’d still have good counterplay whereas in PvE people can stack and it’d be easier to alternate between tablet skills and weapon skills due to the pace. I don’t know how raids work though but heard conditions play a big part there.
Ventari needs lots of work to be viable in PvP but I think they’re afraid of overpowering the legend in PvE. I only one two matches (all unranked) out of six as Ventari and I spent lots of time in Shiro in those matches too. Then again I went mid in Legacy for one of the losses but the tablet’s precasts and cooldowns make it unwieldy.
Currently in both condition cleanse and maximum healing potential druids and tempests can do better. The reason it would be in PvP first is because PvP isn’t really as much about killing fast but about holding a point (this could be observed in the last meta). Under these conditions a healer will always be OP first in conquest.
BTW in the current raid condi cleanses are almost irrelevant and in PvE there is a concept called overhealing ;p. Truth be told, it’s even possible to clear the raid with a berzerker druid.
Ouch. Sounds like they need to buff raiding then. Not only should dying be avoided but a very credible risk of it happening to even good groups needs to be there especially for elite content. Ventari has great point holding potential in group fights but is too slow and clumsy to be practical.
I remember in the last meta getting into duels on points where none of us would die (especially ele vs. mesmer or ele vs. ele) until a +1 occurred.
Even for point holding Tempests can compete with ventari in sustained healing and take less effort. Druids have a far better burst heal and give a lot of offensive buff.
On the cleansing side only considering AoE cleanses
Ventari can cleanse about 0.53 condis/sec (with unlimited energy 0.83/sec)
Tempests can cleanse 0.69 condis/sec
Druids can cleanse 1.09 condis/sec
Ventaris only real advantage against the others is a larger access to active defenses, our projectile block and better protection uptime.
Because of this larger access to active defense our self heal can’t be too large or else we would turn into unkillable point holders in SPvP.
We can’t have too many cleanses for the same reason, we have a lot of power damage reduction if we had too many cleanses we wouldn’t die.
The overwhelming consensus last season was that revenant was overpowered. I thought nerfing overpowered classes lead to balance (you know, that thing all players want and devs actively work towards)?
People don’t see the whole picture. They see what they want to see, exclude the rest, ignore parts of the reality that prevent them from coming to logical conclusions. It’s easier to ragepost than it is to think how to adapt, though one is more effective than the other.
Or maybe we don’t mind the nerfs, but hate the fact that all the weak aspects were completely untouched?
I agree that people don’t see the whole picture. That much is clear from your post and many others.
Ventari needs serious fixing but if it’s tweaked to be viable in PvP it may be “OP” in PvE. Yet another solution that can be solved by separate balancing. To be PvP ready it needs faster charge times and less energy consumption. By the time it pumps out a heal or even cleanse the players you wanted to heal or cleanse would likely have ran out of the tablet’s range.
I’m fairly sure it will hardly be OP in pve before being OP in conquest. In PvE it’s all about damage. Tempest and Druid bring in more than enough healing. What ventari can’t do is getting even close to Druids offensive support while maintains the minimum amount of healing.
Normally it’s the case that something is OP in PvP first (players have fewer immunities and much less HP than bosses and even elite and vet trash mobs) but the very nature of PvP battles and the unique mechanics behind the tablet say such a buff would make it so. In PvP on a small point consistently upkeeping cleanse and healing on a point will be a bit of a challenge and still need to use weapon skills but skills like scorpion wire and point blank shot would get their teammates out of the tablet’s range (the shield skill would put healing on hold making them vulnerable to the melee inside) so it’d still have good counterplay whereas in PvE people can stack and it’d be easier to alternate between tablet skills and weapon skills due to the pace. I don’t know how raids work though but heard conditions play a big part there.
Ventari needs lots of work to be viable in PvP but I think they’re afraid of overpowering the legend in PvE. I only one two matches (all unranked) out of six as Ventari and I spent lots of time in Shiro in those matches too. Then again I went mid in Legacy for one of the losses but the tablet’s precasts and cooldowns make it unwieldy.
Currently in both condition cleanse and maximum healing potential druids and tempests can do better. The reason it would be in PvP first is because PvP isn’t really as much about killing fast but about holding a point (this could be observed in the last meta). Under these conditions a healer will always be OP first in conquest.
BTW in the current raid condi cleanses are almost irrelevant and in PvE there is a concept called overhealing ;p. Truth be told, it’s even possible to clear the raid with a berzerker druid.
The overwhelming consensus last season was that revenant was overpowered. I thought nerfing overpowered classes lead to balance (you know, that thing all players want and devs actively work towards)?
People don’t see the whole picture. They see what they want to see, exclude the rest, ignore parts of the reality that prevent them from coming to logical conclusions. It’s easier to ragepost than it is to think how to adapt, though one is more effective than the other.
Or maybe we don’t mind the nerfs, but hate the fact that all the weak aspects were completely untouched?
I agree that people don’t see the whole picture. That much is clear from your post and many others.
Ventari needs serious fixing but if it’s tweaked to be viable in PvP it may be “OP” in PvE. Yet another solution that can be solved by separate balancing. To be PvP ready it needs faster charge times and less energy consumption. By the time it pumps out a heal or even cleanse the players you wanted to heal or cleanse would likely have ran out of the tablet’s range.
I’m fairly sure it will hardly be OP in pve before being OP in conquest. In PvE it’s all about damage. Tempest and Druid bring in more than enough healing. What ventari can’t do is getting even close to Druids offensive support while maintains the minimum amount of healing.
I played a DH thru most of last season to diamond in mostly solo queue and i did well on it mainly because people constantly had to leeroy into my traps without thinking and didn’t have a clue how to use terrain and other thing to their advantage. Those who did, beat me easily, those who didnt, well thank you for the diamond i guess.
If you stand still and eat these kinds of things that have such a huge bast time and are telegraphed a mile away, the skill may not be the problem
CoR is an instant cast, not a fair comparison at all, just sayin…
There is one issue with the build, it has no stun breakers. Protect me only breaks allies out of stun not the player who cast it, that said you do have good access to stability but none of it is instant cast which can be a pain vs classes such as thief and mesmer who have instant cast cc.
But other than that i love how the build looks and the way traits and skill synergise, and it does not run the druid line!! I adore builds that forgo the elite spec in order to take traits that better synergise.
I’m fairly sure protect me stunbreaks the user too.
Been playing around with Revenant the past few days in an attempt to learn something new. It has not been easy, I mostly spvp or WvW, can someone tell me what Revenants use for stability or condo removal? I am running a power based build. Typically anytime I decide to close the distance on someone and engage this result usually happens. Stun, condi, condi, stun, stun, stun, condi, dead… So can someone help a newbie out?!
For stability get the retribution line with enhanced bulkwark. For condi cleanse staff and invocation. For condi mitigation versed in stone and runes of hoelbrak.
Honestly, I don’t know that there is anything we do better than others. Maybe group offensive buff? Even then, it only plays out in pve and I’m not even sure if it’s true anymore.
That said, I don’t even know that we have to be the best at anything in particular. There’s an argument to be made for being really good at a lot of things without necessarily being the best at one (especially if you can be good at a couple of things at the same time). We’re not that either though, imo.
Which isn’t to say there isn’t fun to be had with the class. But I don’t think there’s a particular role they’re especially great at relative to others, no. At least, not outside of group buff in pve.
In group buff for pve though they really are amazing 1k power and 880 condi damage 170 precision and 170 ferocity is nothing to ignore.
The Reaper build I play takes maybe one or two seconds to ramp up, then pound out a healthy hard to cleanse (near impossible) 8-10k condition damage per second. My condi engi can’t match that in its dream.
Can you show me a build and the (2 second) skill rotation of that build? Statements like these are very enlightening.
Indeed. Especially since 10k DPS damage in PvE requires serious ramp up time and investment. In full Ascended Vipers gear, I think I’ve maxed at around 7k DPS (total, not just condition). Granted, I wasn’t in a raid setting with the support that usually brings, and I’m only counting per-target, but that should be significantly higher than what can be accomplished in PvP, especially against opponents that actually try to defend themselves..
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t PvE necro don’t use reaper? My guildmate can hit 27k bleeds, not including poison or torment. One raid we had 2 condi necros, together they achieved the ! amount of bleeding.
Puts that 1,500 cap to shame when 1 necro can go over 100 stacks of bleeding in PvE.
Dat power creep.
I was thinking today when fighting against a friend who played a revenant.
Crystal Hibernation + the trait who gives an auto Crystal Hibernation is making the Revenant so good as it is… Without that Revenant is realy bad :P What is annoyis is that the base healing is so darn good and if I have a combo attack that I can’t interupt like a DH trap or a Scrapper rocket charge and poff Revenant has filled up most of it’s HP.
I guess I am complaining and I would want that skill to be more affected by Healing Power than with a base healing so high as it is… But I am not in the right spot to complain becouse I still kill most revenants anyway.
Are you joking? Crystal hibernation is one of the few healing skills that actually scales really well with healing power even more now that the base healing got nerfed.
Soothing bastion is a terrible trait unless your opponents are incredibly bad. Its only redeeming quality would be the boon duration if it worked and this is something that I had pointed out during bwe3.
I would like to add to this that all the “easy to master” discussion only applies to 2/5 of the class. Mallyx is not super-easy (though not hard either) and Jalis/ventari just needs help to even function well on a basic level.
It’s still a new class so I guess it is to be expected there are things to work out, however it’s easy to start speculating if the legend design really worked out properly. Since it’s fun to play some of them for sure I like to think it’s possible iterations down the line.
I can guarantee one thing. If they fix ventari properly it’ll be harder to master than tempest and druid… But it’ll be fun \o/.
Being harder is a consequence of being focused on micromanaging in case anyone asks.
I think whatever statement was made, you simply took it out of context to ‘prove’ whatever negative thinking you have about Anet, which of course ignores the history we have for their balancing cycles. Even if that statement was made, we know it’s not true.
Overall, after the last BWE, we felt like revenant was in a solid spot. For launch we mainly focused on bug fixing and a few outliers such as changing the second hit of the sword auto-attack as well as speeding up the tablet move speed.
That’s not to say that there aren’t more things we are thinking about how to improve or tweak, but we want the profession to get in more playtime and thus more feedback before we make any more larger changes. I’m definitely reading all the feedback and taking under consideration for future changes so keep up the awesome work.
My only agenda here is making ventari viable. It was before the last patch in spvp it’s not anymore. On that bug fixing part.
Yea, but saying we should only complain about Jalis and Ventari is silly.
We have a ton of bugs and issues littered through out the entire class.
Sword 2,3,5 are all buggy and 5 in particular is mostly useless.
Sword 4’s follow-up is worthless.
Hammer 2 being useless if there’s more than one Revenant is a big issue, along with all the terrain bugs that Hammer 2,3, and 5 all have.
Hammer in-general being mediocre and awful at kiting is an issue.
Shield being just for healing is an issue.
Mallyx and the Corruption line both have to be changed to accommodate his “overhaul”. Relies way too much on Resistance, and now it’s going to be a big problem any time a necromancer looks in your general direction. Before, you could sorta play around it with Facet of Nature, but now I don’t see it happening.
The over-reliance on Herald is an issue, albeit not unique to Revenant.
Enhanced Bulwark being untouched, but Unwavering Avoidance being nerfed is an issue (the former’s only real use is with the latter!).
Underwater Revenant is unfinished (even excluding Glint, UW Mallyx still has the old Unyielding Anguish!).
Etc.
Yes, Revenant isn’t dead, but getting nerfed so much while NONE of the issues are fixed (actually, they fixed Staff 4…which wasn’t broken in Beta…so I don’t think that counts as a “fixed issue” when it broke afterwards) is concerning.
You are also mistaken if you believe that I think Anet is some kind of evil overlord that is out there to screw revs. What I do believe is that this last balance patch was mostly terrible and if you look at the official feedback thread that around 80%-90% of the feedback mentions that too.
Also within this subforum since BWE3 it has been mentioned that Jalis and Ventari are greatly underpowered. So the feedback was there.
My thing is that I think it’s healthy. I havent played as a necro yet in the new patch, just Mes and thief, but boon spam is worse. And i mean spam. pressing buttons the moment you can for the attack and boon, like old ele with cele and rev. Necro counters them now, hard, which is good I think.
Here is the deal. You cant corrupt boons the enemy doesnt have. If the enemy player is careful about their skills and dont give themselves to many boons, then the necro is at a condition dps loss by using their boon coppurtion traits and skills for other utility. Ive had no problem beating a necro as a thief. I make sure not to give myself,m boons, as hard as it can be, and its not 100 percent avoidable but thats what condi clear is for. Builds that counter corrupt necro are builds that dont depend on boons. These builds are rare, boons have been what the meta is always about though from what ive seenl and im glad there is something working against it now. If it is over done they might wanna tone it down but otherwise all the nee corrupt options should remain available.
First thieves have absolutely no reliance on boons. Second thieves hardcounter necros. Third saying just don’t use boons to eles and specially revs is like saying " just don’t dodge" to a thief.
The only complaint revenants should be making is that Jalis and Ventari were never buffed.
I would argue that mallyx needs buffs too now, considering the fact that their counters were buffed immensely and they got nerfed quite a bit too. For example for the previous output of boon removal/corrupt demonic defiance at a 5 sec cooldown was OK now it clearly isn’t.
As someone who’s just made a revenant and is learning to play it, I have to ask….. can you shed some light on what exactly you don’t like about it? You don’t offer any details in your post.
Hopefully it was a serious question because I will provide an actual answer to it.
From a dedicated Revenant. And a truly honest response.
The concept behind Revenants was the focus around energy management and not on cool downs. It does require skill to play for this matter. The issue is they arived out the gate as OP….. and there begins the problem.
The bumpy road most traveled by….. ANET…. Overnerf.
Q: So why do revenants hate what anet is doing?
Adding cooldowns to a class that already needs to micromanage their energy, their elites, their skill rotation and their surrounding. This also goes directly against what we were told about the revenant. That there would be very minimal cool downs.
Nerfing boons/buffs that are directly related to a revenants elite. (Quickness, Energy)
Nerfing the only elites the rev get use out of without looking into the most unused ones. And buffing those (Ventari & Jalace).
This one is quite shocking: because this one alone has basically made the Rev Glint useless.
Note: Revenants is one of the top classes to apply multiple boons both to themselves & teammates.
Note: Revenants greatest weakness is the lack of condi removal. In fact they are the worst class to remove condis.
Balance patch: Giving a condi heavy class (Necro) the ability to convert boons in to conditions
Balance patch: Nerfing the strongest and only useful heal Revenants have.
Additional nerfs that actually hurt revenant without taking the class into account. (Quickness, Sigil of Energy, rune of durability)
Trying not make assumptions, but it was a overnerf based on stats alone.
I personally do not hate the Revenant, but I do hate having put my heart and soul into several classes just to watch them turn into mush based on a communities QQ level.
As a result I quit GW2. I was curious what this patch would bring.
So obviously, you are wrong. Anet intends for CDs to be a ‘thing’ on Revs, even WITH energy management.
Edit: they had 3 years worth to learn from, 3 beta weekends, and then several more patches (of which we barely got any fixes).
Revenant shouldn’t be this non-functional at this stage.
Didn’t you mean 2 bwes? After all “we are in a good spot”.
I won’t debate with you, but NO one with a reasonable expectation will think that 2 BWE’s will result in a balanced class at release.
Seems like you are new to rev then because that’s exactly what we were told when we asked as to why they didn’t buff ventari/jalis after bwe3.
As someone who’s just made a revenant and is learning to play it, I have to ask….. can you shed some light on what exactly you don’t like about it? You don’t offer any details in your post.
Hopefully it was a serious question because I will provide an actual answer to it.
From a dedicated Revenant. And a truly honest response.
The concept behind Revenants was the focus around energy management and not on cool downs. It does require skill to play for this matter. The issue is they arived out the gate as OP….. and there begins the problem.
The bumpy road most traveled by….. ANET…. Overnerf.
Q: So why do revenants hate what anet is doing?
Adding cooldowns to a class that already needs to micromanage their energy, their elites, their skill rotation and their surrounding. This also goes directly against what we were told about the revenant. That there would be very minimal cool downs.
Nerfing boons/buffs that are directly related to a revenants elite. (Quickness, Energy)
Nerfing the only elites the rev get use out of without looking into the most unused ones. And buffing those (Ventari & Jalace).
This one is quite shocking: because this one alone has basically made the Rev Glint useless.
Note: Revenants is one of the top classes to apply multiple boons both to themselves & teammates.
Note: Revenants greatest weakness is the lack of condi removal. In fact they are the worst class to remove condis.
Balance patch: Giving a condi heavy class (Necro) the ability to convert boons in to conditions
Balance patch: Nerfing the strongest and only useful heal Revenants have.
Additional nerfs that actually hurt revenant without taking the class into account. (Quickness, Sigil of Energy, rune of durability)
Trying not make assumptions, but it was a overnerf based on stats alone.
I personally do not hate the Revenant, but I do hate having put my heart and soul into several classes just to watch them turn into mush based on a communities QQ level.
As a result I quit GW2. I was curious what this patch would bring.
So obviously, you are wrong. Anet intends for CDs to be a ‘thing’ on Revs, even WITH energy management.
Edit: they had 3 years worth to learn from, 3 beta weekends, and then several more patches (of which we barely got any fixes).
Revenant shouldn’t be this non-functional at this stage.
Didn’t you mean 2 bwes? After all “we are in a good spot”.
Was wondering what people used for getting condi clear on their rev, i know we have traits for this but tbh they are useless, dodge roll is only 1 and i dont want 2 swap legend just to clear a single condi. ive tried using mallyx for the resistance but if that gets corrupted, which atm it dose all the dam time, it pointless. any thoughts? (i should said im playing power with 100% crit chance and am using a generosity in my off hand)
For power rev there is staff… And staff. Avoid fighting reapers and avoid having condis applied to you in the first place. There is nothing else you can do. If you aren’t using retribution start using it and take versed in stone.
Don’t worry revs, you got a lot of stuff warriors could’ve used. Now, you’ll be sitting down there soon with them
At least warriors are still fun to play, which is something that revs never were (in my personal opinion, of course).
Ventari is fun IMO condi rev and auramancing tempest weren’t that’s why I didn’t play them.
Condi Rev used to be fun…
Not for me TBH but that’s for every ones preference.
For example there are quite a few people that want Ventari to be a druid or tempest clone. I wouldn’t like it since both play styles care a lot less about positioning and are a lot more spammy.
What isn’t a balanced passive? Soothing Bastion
Basically invulnerability with health regen. Just WTF is supposed to be the counterplay to this?Unblockable attacks? Lol K.
Bad example a single stack of poison kills this heal, it roots you leaving you open to a counter attack and as you said unblockable attack. Also your example of using a burst skill to kill from 26% works too.
And to be honest it’s a terrible trait I would only consider using it if the boon duration effect worked.
Last but not the least revenants are fairly strong against power based damage while being extremely weak to conditon damage.
..I think the new Steal ability (swap spots with your target) would be insanely overpowered though, in both PvP and WvW…
First thank you. Secondly, I’m still not convinced that swapping places is over powered. It’s powerful yes but it only consolidates abilities that we already have. We can pull with scorpion wire and shadowstep with a number of abilities. I see it more as keeping thieves as kings of mobility. I am willing to admit, however, that thief is my favorite class and perhaps I’m not exactly being balanced. I just thought it would be fun to use with pistol orshortbow with hidden thief equipped. Other classes got some really cool toys last go round and I think we should get something enviable too.
There is another reason against it. It’s the same as displacement, displacement was removed from the game because it was causing too many bugs.
Not hard to avoid but as far as I’m aware if a thief screws up he is dead. And I’m guessing that in a normal game it would be more likely for the thieves to be inexperienced do to the fotm effect. Thefore his opponents were terribad too.
I’ve been trying to choose between clerics or magi myself! My friend and I always play together and we are finally starting to get asencded stuff. Just not sure if the loss of healing power for increased boon duration is worth it.
On ranger not much IMO you also lose a lot of power.
Wait, how is (or was, rather) revenant hard to master? Don’t you just cycle between shiro (quickness) and glint (boons) spamming sword auto? I don’t play revenant, and haven’t looked at any guides or anything, but I tried it out in pvp lobby pre-nerf, and it seemed like ultra easy high dps.
Ventari, on the other hand, was harder to use, but no one uses that.
It would be incorrect to classify the revenant as a Jack of all trades unless we have access to all legends in combat. Similarly to engi or ele.
While it is possible to (in theory) perform a large variety of roles they all require a lot of specialization and have tradeoffs.
That’s what I mean. In preparation you can set the Rev to fill different roles with a good deal of ease and efficiency.
E.G. Vale Guard, I’ll have the typical Glint/Shiro for the encounter but swap over to Glint/Ventari or Jalis/Ventari for a more defensive stance in Orb consumption events following the boss fight. Then, it’s back to Glint/Shiro or Glint/Mallyx for the Ghost walls. At most I’m changing Legends and maybe one Spec. Or, the ever classical we engaged Blue Guardian, and our Mesmer/Necro is still zoning in. “One sec, let me hop out of battle and slot in Mallyx for the strip.”
Granted, I’ll agree Revs aren’t as versatile in battle when compared to Ele’s or Engi’s.
Being versitile in battle is what matters for SPvP since you can’t change anything after the game begins.
From what I’ve seen on other threads and posts asking similar questions, it’s because they’re squishy, lack utility, don’t bring much else but stealth to the table, and are by design supposed to do higher than average damage. Rev meanwhile just farts boons and might all over the place and able to bring a lot of team utility with its various legends.
+1
Thief falls under your typical MMO’s Rogue archetype that’s really good at hiding and really good at frontloading damage. So, I am not at all surprised to see such a damage buff to our Rouge-ish players. Rev falls under the category of Jack-of-All-Trades which means the class should do quite well at adapting for various roles but should not excel at classes that are more dedicated to that role.
As far as the Sword nerf/buff? I have mixed feelings about it. The biggest gotcha being that the sustain damage was supposed to be offset to require incorporating Sword 2, but that skill is not the world’s greatest attack right now (only had a few bugs last night with it in a raid though). If that skill can be polished up I would be more on the “okay side” of the damage shift.
The auto-attack did feel too high especially since I was able to bring both damage and a great deal of team support at the same time. At least with Thieves, they may have exceptional attacks but don’t really offer much else to the group at the same time
It would be incorrect to classify the revenant as a Jack of all trades unless we have access to all legends in combat. Similarly to engi or ele.
While it is possible to (in theory) perform a large variety of roles they all require a lot of specialization and have tradeoffs.
.Who is dumb right now ?
