Guild Wars 2

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Still, most people don’t use Ventari because of the micromanagement, like it or not. It has nothing to do with small changes. It’s the entire mechanic people don’t like.

There are two working healers for those…

Rym.1469:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Rym.1469:

In general, I could give four bullet points explaining four main reasons why you don’t see any Ventari Revenants:

• 1. Druid exists. And it’s not burst healer – it’s burst and sustain healer. It not only brings heals, but also unique damage buffs, most importantly Grace of the Land. If Celestial Avatar went to 15-20s CD, problem would be fixed, but that would require lowering powercreep.

• 2. Ventari has no real defensive ability to prevent focus or lower damage it takes for some period of time. Now you can at least knockback foes with #0, but it doesn’t help much.
  To improve Ventari here, Protective Solace should do something more than just block projectiles – it should be something Ventari Revenant could use to lower the pressure.

• 3. Ventari has no stunbreak. Stunbreak on Purifying Essence or Elite would fix the problem.

• 4. Salvation specialization is outdated, but most importantly, doesn’t synergize enough with concepts behind Ventari. Legend has been tuned to have it’s healing output based on very high +% outgoing healing bonuses, but Salvation doesn’t give enough +% baseline. Almost all bonuses like these require specific gear, traits that restrict more valuable utility choices in same tiers (condition cleanse for example).

• How to combat this?: Salvation Grandmaster minor increasing outgoing healing % by 15% (same as Tempest and less than Druid which weren’t balanced as much around this and have stronger base heals) should probably be bumped to 30-50%, so any Ventari Revenant picking up Salvation can play Legend as it was meant to be played.

These would be my top 4 reasons.

While those are your top 4, I’d add in that one of the biggest probable reasons is the tablet micromanagement needed to play Ventari. I hear this, and I include myself in it, as one of the most common reasons.

While it can be another reason, I think rather than concept of Tablet micromanagement being bad, the issue lies within small things, like a tad too small radius (240 instead of 300), #6 having shorter range than Tablet’s leash range, it being too slow sometimes. Honestly, recent patch showed that small changes to Ventari can improve it’s gameplay – you can easily see the difference if you played it before.

Next small changes like making Tablet healing more obvious to allies (green “+” above fragments for example) could surely make it even more intuitive for both Revenant and allies.

I see and understand that not everyone might be sold on Tablet micromanaging, collecting shards/fragments to heal, but after playing it for a bit you can get use to it and I like the concept. It’s a unique playstyle, something that requires more thought and feels more fun than nearly every other support in this game which is basically mindless shout spam. It certainly has it’s flavour and I’d prefer for Ventari to stay.

To me, Ventari Revenant as a concept is basically the healthy design GW2 should have more of.

And I see myself agreeing with you again.

LouWolfskin.3492:

Varezenem.2813:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Varezenem.2813:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Varezenem.2813:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Varezenem.2813:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Varezenem.2813:

Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiePvP.to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.

I honestly feel that Ventari should be viable without these and he should also promote active play.
Yes, that includes legend swap as well as interrupting, he is supposed to be a support/control legend.
And if the base heal isn’t enough for anything than honestly the legend isn’t very well designed.
If the whole point is healing, which… well, seems to be the case looking at their skill, why have other traits at all? Just give us 3 choices of heal-modifier then on every single tier.

Water magic doesn’t work that way, neither does the Druid or Alchemy.

Then again, the proposed changes are after my personal experience of playing the Revenant.
I feel these things would be better for them, if not… okay.

Ventari cannot be viable without because iVentari cannot have a self heal even remotely close to tempest/druid without being OP in PvP.

Because you clearly can’t switch out of Ventari. It’s not like you have two legends.

You really can’t read can you? The problem isn’t that Ventari can’t sustain, the problem is that Ventari cannot be allowed to sustain much without making revenant into a overpowered bunker. And to heal well without increasing sustain you need something like outgoing healing. That’s why Ventari has more outgoing healing in the first place.

And by overpowered bunker I do mean overpowerd. A tempest is nothing compared to a revenant with good healing.

Also I’m not denying that currently both the outgoing healing and the self-sustain provided by Ventari are insufficient but the ratio between outgoing/self-healing seems to be almost correct.

Last note self-sustain was almost perfect during S1 but they nerfed all core components that were used during the Jan 26 patch. (Durability runes, unwavering avoidance, crystal hibernation, energy sigil) All that while buffing all the counters…

Yes, i can read, the reason i ignore your argument is this: All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself.

Not a single of the mods affects himself, only others.
So honestly, my changes would help him more than simply leaving it like this because he can’t do anything to make heal affect himself more.

Besides, i don’t know about you but i like rewarding active play above giving passive boni that simply apply no matter what the situation.

The point of those modifiers IS making the healing not affect yourself and that is done for a very good reason. Devs even mentioned it during the original Ventari stream.
You might like active play but the amount of outgoing healing has to be kept the same for balance reasons.
And no you cannot read if your argument is " All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself." .

Weren’t you talking bout self-sustain for quite some time?

You know what. Don’t care. You are right, i am wrong.
Tried to bring something to the plate, didn’t work.

The point of the modifiers is to allow Ventari to heal well without providing too much self sustain.
But base healing values are insatisfactory and self-sustain as a consequence.

No idea why you keep justifying yourself now, as i said:
You are right, i am wrong.
This is pretty much over.
Why change anything in Ventari’s Traits anyway if it’s basically fine and everything else would make him op.

I never said it was fine quite the contrary. What I did say is that the amount of outgoing healing is fine. And I also said that due to the jan 26 nerfs Ventari can be buffed in the sustain department even with condi cleanse.

For example ryms suggestion of increasing the amount of outgoing healing in the minor GM to free up trait slots would work.

LouWolfskin.3492:

Varezenem.2813:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Varezenem.2813:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Varezenem.2813:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Varezenem.2813:

Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiePvP.to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.

I honestly feel that Ventari should be viable without these and he should also promote active play.
Yes, that includes legend swap as well as interrupting, he is supposed to be a support/control legend.
And if the base heal isn’t enough for anything than honestly the legend isn’t very well designed.
If the whole point is healing, which… well, seems to be the case looking at their skill, why have other traits at all? Just give us 3 choices of heal-modifier then on every single tier.

Water magic doesn’t work that way, neither does the Druid or Alchemy.

Then again, the proposed changes are after my personal experience of playing the Revenant.
I feel these things would be better for them, if not… okay.

Ventari cannot be viable without because iVentari cannot have a self heal even remotely close to tempest/druid without being OP in PvP.

Because you clearly can’t switch out of Ventari. It’s not like you have two legends.

You really can’t read can you? The problem isn’t that Ventari can’t sustain, the problem is that Ventari cannot be allowed to sustain much without making revenant into a overpowered bunker. And to heal well without increasing sustain you need something like outgoing healing. That’s why Ventari has more outgoing healing in the first place.

And by overpowered bunker I do mean overpowerd. A tempest is nothing compared to a revenant with good healing.

Also I’m not denying that currently both the outgoing healing and the self-sustain provided by Ventari are insufficient but the ratio between outgoing/self-healing seems to be almost correct.

Last note self-sustain was almost perfect during S1 but they nerfed all core components that were used during the Jan 26 patch. (Durability runes, unwavering avoidance, crystal hibernation, energy sigil) All that while buffing all the counters…

Yes, i can read, the reason i ignore your argument is this: All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself.

Not a single of the mods affects himself, only others.
So honestly, my changes would help him more than simply leaving it like this because he can’t do anything to make heal affect himself more.

Besides, i don’t know about you but i like rewarding active play above giving passive boni that simply apply no matter what the situation.

The point of those modifiers IS making the healing not affect yourself and that is done for a very good reason. Devs even mentioned it during the original Ventari stream.
You might like active play but the amount of outgoing healing has to be kept the same for balance reasons.
And no you cannot read if your argument is " All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself." .

Weren’t you talking bout self-sustain for quite some time?

You know what. Don’t care. You are right, i am wrong.
Tried to bring something to the plate, didn’t work.

The point of the modifiers is to allow Ventari to heal well without providing too much self sustain.
But base healing values are insatisfactory and self-sustain as a consequence.

LouWolfskin.3492:

Varezenem.2813:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Varezenem.2813:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Varezenem.2813:

Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiePvP.to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.

I honestly feel that Ventari should be viable without these and he should also promote active play.
Yes, that includes legend swap as well as interrupting, he is supposed to be a support/control legend.
And if the base heal isn’t enough for anything than honestly the legend isn’t very well designed.
If the whole point is healing, which… well, seems to be the case looking at their skill, why have other traits at all? Just give us 3 choices of heal-modifier then on every single tier.

Water magic doesn’t work that way, neither does the Druid or Alchemy.

Then again, the proposed changes are after my personal experience of playing the Revenant.
I feel these things would be better for them, if not… okay.

Ventari cannot be viable without because iVentari cannot have a self heal even remotely close to tempest/druid without being OP in PvP.

Because you clearly can’t switch out of Ventari. It’s not like you have two legends.

You really can’t read can you? The problem isn’t that Ventari can’t sustain, the problem is that Ventari cannot be allowed to sustain much without making revenant into a overpowered bunker. And to heal well without increasing sustain you need something like outgoing healing. That’s why Ventari has more outgoing healing in the first place.

And by overpowered bunker I do mean overpowerd. A tempest is nothing compared to a revenant with good healing.

Also I’m not denying that currently both the outgoing healing and the self-sustain provided by Ventari are insufficient but the ratio between outgoing/self-healing seems to be almost correct.

Last note self-sustain was almost perfect during S1 but they nerfed all core components that were used during the Jan 26 patch. (Durability runes, unwavering avoidance, crystal hibernation, energy sigil) All that while buffing all the counters…

Yes, i can read, the reason i ignore your argument is this: All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself.

Not a single of the mods affects himself, only others.
So honestly, my changes would help him more than simply leaving it like this because he can’t do anything to make heal affect himself more.

Besides, i don’t know about you but i like rewarding active play above giving passive boni that simply apply no matter what the situation.

The point of those modifiers IS making the healing not affect yourself and that is done for a very good reason. Devs even mentioned it during the original Ventari stream.
You might like active play but the amount of outgoing healing has to be kept the same for balance reasons.
And no you cannot read if your argument is " All the modifiers in Ventari’s line are for allies, not himself." .

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

I don’t have a parser, but I am seeing a definite loss in DPS with sword/dagger now.

DPS feels lower indeed.

LouWolfskin.3492:

Varezenem.2813:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Varezenem.2813:

Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiePvP.to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.

I honestly feel that Ventari should be viable without these and he should also promote active play.
Yes, that includes legend swap as well as interrupting, he is supposed to be a support/control legend.
And if the base heal isn’t enough for anything than honestly the legend isn’t very well designed.
If the whole point is healing, which… well, seems to be the case looking at their skill, why have other traits at all? Just give us 3 choices of heal-modifier then on every single tier.

Water magic doesn’t work that way, neither does the Druid or Alchemy.

Then again, the proposed changes are after my personal experience of playing the Revenant.
I feel these things would be better for them, if not… okay.

Ventari cannot be viable without because iVentari cannot have a self heal even remotely close to tempest/druid without being OP in PvP.

Because you clearly can’t switch out of Ventari. It’s not like you have two legends.

You really can’t read can you? The problem isn’t that Ventari can’t sustain, the problem is that Ventari cannot be allowed to sustain much without making revenant into a overpowered bunker. And to heal well without increasing sustain you need something like outgoing healing. That’s why Ventari has more outgoing healing in the first place.

And by overpowered bunker I do mean overpowerd. A tempest is nothing compared to a revenant with good healing.

Also I’m not denying that currently both the outgoing healing and the self-sustain provided by Ventari are insufficient but the ratio between outgoing/self-healing seems to be almost correct.

Last note self-sustain was almost perfect during S1 but they nerfed all core components that were used during the Jan 26 patch. (Durability runes, unwavering avoidance, crystal hibernation, energy sigil) All that while buffing all the counters…

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Varezenem.2813:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Ventari might see some use now. The entire legend being instant-cast means the lack of stunbreak isn’t as big a deal anymore. More importantly, you can react much more quickly to an ally in trouble than you could before.

That cooldown on Ventaris will and the lack of a HPS/sustain buff make Ventari have the exact same place it had before…
On the bright side it is more responsive (except for the cooldown) and if properly buffed good.

Healing Power scaling on Natural Harmony (the burst healing skill) got boosted by 33%, so there is that.

There was no real improvent to healing outgoing heal because they neerf Ventaris will. Assuming 1375 healing power.

nearlight.3064:

Too busy playing other games and school to test this out right now, please explain responses.

No.

Sustain and healing is still lacking.

LouWolfskin.3492:

Varezenem.2813:

Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiePvP.to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.

I honestly feel that Ventari should be viable without these and he should also promote active play.
Yes, that includes legend swap as well as interrupting, he is supposed to be a support/control legend.
And if the base heal isn’t enough for anything than honestly the legend isn’t very well designed.
If the whole point is healing, which… well, seems to be the case looking at their skill, why have other traits at all? Just give us 3 choices of heal-modifier then on every single tier.

Water magic doesn’t work that way, neither does the Druid or Alchemy.

Then again, the proposed changes are after my personal experience of playing the Revenant.
I feel these things would be better for them, if not… okay.

Ventari cannot be viable without because iVentari cannot have a self heal even remotely close to tempest/druid without being OP in PvP.

guildabd.6529:

I’m not getting any loot in WvW by healing allies as revenant.
Other classes don’t have this problem, they get loot even if you don’t do any damage.

Then you are not healing. Do any amount of damage as a starter.
It’s not impossible that tablet heal isn’t being recognized as the Revenants, since there was a bug like that in the betas, but I don’t have any difficulties tagging really.

LouWolfskin.3492:

I honestly feel that Invocation as well as Salvation need a few better traits.

Invocation doesn’t quite feel like a class mechanic and Salvation has 4 traits regarding heal output.

Invigorating Flow: Remove this. At least remove it’s mechanic. The heal on this is not worth it in the long. I wan’t to be honest hear: This should rather give you energy on evade, successful evade probably.

Empty Vessel: Make the stunbreak on legendary swap base. The class on a whole would benefit. What to make this instead?
Simple: Legendary swap gives you 25 additional energy.
My reason for this is simple: If you use Jallis elite for example you are basically useless for a few seconds. This would ensure that you can still do a little afterwards.

Charged Mists: This probably should get a rework too, as it is this trait is not really helpful. I’m honestly not sure what to do with this one, maybe a damage boost after legend swap or give the buff under other circumstances.

Salvation:

Tranquil Balance: Rework. For example: Interrupting an enemy triggers a small heal around you.

Invoking Harmony: Legend Swap removes a buff from surrounding enemies. This may sound weird in this line but Ventary is supposedly about leveling the playing field and pacification. In a way it would fit.

Retribution

Versed in Stone: This trait is… problematic. While Rite of the Great Dwarf is nice it shouldn’t also be a direct Counter to condition damage in my opinion. Not in the way this does at the Moment at least.
I’d rather see this removing 2 conditions from affected allies on use, so it would take inspiration from Soothing Stone, Jallis’ selfheal.
Maybe remove the auto-use as well but give it: Return energy per affected ally.
To make it more worthwhile.

Corruption

Replenishing Despair: This… is really hurt by it’s cooldown. Now removing that would be too strong.
Simply healing more wouldn’t help much either. It could buff selfheal skills, giving it more synergy with other legends as well, triggering two or three torment stacks around you on selfheal use.

Venom Enhancement: Probably should either get it’s cooldown cut down significally or simply apply more poison on Trigger.

Maniacal Persistance: Rework this: not having speced in precision in a line about crits shouldn’t be rewarded. Landing a critical hit grants you a stacking buff to condition damage. Small CD, buff lasts 5 seconds.

I’d also change Nefarious Momentum from Devastation but as i have no good idea i only mention it as it has little to no good use.

Anyway… these would be my changes to the lines.

Terrible idea Ventari needs outgoing healing modifiers to be useful without being OP.
OFC base healing isn’t enough right now.
Energy generation is taboo.
This version of versed in stone is actually stronger.

orisci.6527:

Hey guys,
I was playing around with Cindy Rev last PvP season and some traits flat out didn’t work… Is there a list of Rev traits and skills somewhere that shows what is still broken?

You can check the wiki or burtniks topic.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

After them minor nerf’s you think it is unplayable? Wow man, this face roll class made thief and warrior pretty imposible to play competitively because how much better rev is, and it is still far better then thief and warrior.

Play 1 of them 2 and see how long it takes for you realize just how easy you still have it (I admit condis are not in your favor)

They’ll be even less in our favor after with riposting shadows nerf (a justified nerf). Still Ventari wasn’t buffed enough and given my experience perhaps even a condi cleanse increase might be justified (on Ventari).

I believe that my first game today was against you guys too (wobbuffet was there) fairly fun for a change. =p

Salamander.2504:

mrauls.6519:

2.1k? The 3 sec cd trait?

I think it’s 1s ICD.

Only if used with projectiles.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Ventari might see some use now. The entire legend being instant-cast means the lack of stunbreak isn’t as big a deal anymore. More importantly, you can react much more quickly to an ally in trouble than you could before.

That cooldown on Ventaris will and the lack of a HPS/sustain buff make Ventari have the exact same place it had before…
On the bright side it is more responsive (except for the cooldown) and if properly buffed good.

Rym.1469:

I got to ~25k DPS on test golem without full ascended setup.

I can certainly say that I’m not really satisfied with changes, as I feel like, again, barely anything got fixed and there’s no real initiative for alternative playstyles.

Ventari feels better, but still no way as powerful as Tempest or Druid, working 3x as hard to achieve same or worse effects. With shorter delays, instant tablet movements and especially instant elite that is rather dank knockback it could see some play and I will be testing some builds tomorrow on stream, but I think both Power and Condi Rev are much better.

Exactly my impressions.

499A4413-0819-4480-8D42-6D622AA6B6B9:

I’m fairly new to the game and somehow I managed to charm a new pet quite by accident. The problem is — it is another Hound with exactly the same stats as my original (different breed though).

I would like to be able to dismiss the new hound so I can have a totally different creature in my roster (it will go to a good home…promise :-) ).

Thanks for any help.

Request support to change your forum name, seriously.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Or they standardized the amount stolen instead of having varying values across different skill/items

Doesn’t work Assassins Annihilation, ED and whatnot all steal a different amount. And they still do.

Now I can reproduce it =p. Not OP so I guess it’ll be fixed.

Burtnik.5218:

I would like to know also tbh.

I’d guess being able to penetrate damage reduction…

MercenaryNote.8506:

Varezenem.2813:

MercenaryNote.8506:

Varezenem.2813:

MercenaryNote.8506:

Varezenem.2813:

MercenaryNote.8506:

Varezenem.2813:

Rym.1469:

Yes, but apart from being fun, it brings nothing over Druid or Tempest, realistically speaking.

It does bring a bit more than a tempest but lacks healing and is harder to use.

I play a healing Revenant in Open World, WvW, and sometimes Raids. It does not in any way lack healing, in fact the numbers are matched with druids. It is more unreliable to use though, I agree. It’s unreliability, along with the fact that everyone is missing out on a potential 15% damage buff from druids, makes Ventari Rev inferior, but it is NOT because of lacking in heals.

It is lacking in heals Ventari might have big numbers popping up frequently but druids have bigger numbers and more frequently. Do the calculations.

As someone who plays both druid and Ventari, it’s not about how frequently you heal, it’s about if you’re able to heal when it’s needed. If you’re popping out heals when everyone is already full, then you’re wasting your time (Unless you’re trying to give everyone GotL). Playing both Ventari and Druid with my raiding guilds, we have not noticed a difference in survivability. At all.

Well that’s because raiding has low healing requirements. Conquest(PvP) does not…

We are not talking about PvP, we are talking about Raids, as that is what the OP is asking for. -_-

And I’m still talking about raids the healing output is not acceptable compared to the damage lost. A tempest for example while decreasing damage increases sustain a lot more being useful for pugs. Ventari can’t do either.

And I’ve literally said that the Revenant is an inferior healer, but not because of healing output, so I’m not even sure why we’rearguing in the first place.

Edit: To add, you don’t bring a Ventari rev for purely healing. You should bring it for tanking, healing, boons, and boon duration all at the same time, covering 4 roles at once.

Indeed but it does not perform these roles well enough to be worth a slot.
Increasing the healing output allows revenants in pve to have a higher personal DPS making up for the lack in other roles. It also solves the issues ventari still has in pvp.

Wait that? That’s a bug caused by the life steal fix is it not?

MercenaryNote.8506:

Varezenem.2813:

MercenaryNote.8506:

Varezenem.2813:

MercenaryNote.8506:

Varezenem.2813:

Rym.1469:

Yes, but apart from being fun, it brings nothing over Druid or Tempest, realistically speaking.

It does bring a bit more than a tempest but lacks healing and is harder to use.

I play a healing Revenant in Open World, WvW, and sometimes Raids. It does not in any way lack healing, in fact the numbers are matched with druids. It is more unreliable to use though, I agree. It’s unreliability, along with the fact that everyone is missing out on a potential 15% damage buff from druids, makes Ventari Rev inferior, but it is NOT because of lacking in heals.

It is lacking in heals Ventari might have big numbers popping up frequently but druids have bigger numbers and more frequently. Do the calculations.

As someone who plays both druid and Ventari, it’s not about how frequently you heal, it’s about if you’re able to heal when it’s needed. If you’re popping out heals when everyone is already full, then you’re wasting your time (Unless you’re trying to give everyone GotL). Playing both Ventari and Druid with my raiding guilds, we have not noticed a difference in survivability. At all.

Well that’s because raiding has low healing requirements. Conquest(PvP) does not…

We are not talking about PvP, we are talking about Raids, as that is what the OP is asking for. -_-

And I’m still talking about raids the healing output is not acceptable compared to the damage lost. A tempest for example while decreasing damage increases sustain a lot more being useful for pugs. Ventari can’t do either.

XxsdgxX.8109:

With the nice addition to the new DPS Golem I finally realized how kittening terrible DPS Revenant now has. Holy kitten my Guardian Hammer camping is actually worth more in a team.

Yep that is a known fact, lol.

Tested my own DPS in a ascended clerics setup with full buffs and I managed to get a impressive 7k DPS…
The interesting part is that after testing it for a bit more all variations (invocation and devastation) give on average the same DPS and the rotation is only AA anything else decreases DPS.

Burtnik.5218:

Rym.1469:

Actually, they haven’t nerfed much.

But haven’t fixed much either. Ventari feels much better, but Salvation traitline is still a kittenshow.

My problem is that they have not adressed the issues properly. All grasp shadow needed is to be ranged pull. Counterblow also needed drastical dmg boost.

Shiro heal being already terrible was nerfed without adressing deflect/reflect issue. Initial heal was also nerfed by 5%. Might as well remove initial completely. Riposting shadows nerf is actually huge however.

Stab nerf in retribution was not reverted. Glint stab trait untouched?

Sword 2 issue was not addressed. Sword remains as joke in any 1vX matchup, on top of that damage bug was not fixed.

The ventari buffs are a joke honestly. Not sure why they even bothered.
Jalis buffs? Forget. Im glad that i moved to Smite.

I’ll say that it does indeed feel better. After testing Ventari still needs some buffs to sustain and healing.
Also they really should unnerf ventari’s will (cooldown to 3 sec or less) because the new cooldown is rather annoying.
The total amount of healing didn’t really change.

MercenaryNote.8506:

Varezenem.2813:

MercenaryNote.8506:

Varezenem.2813:

Rym.1469:

Yes, but apart from being fun, it brings nothing over Druid or Tempest, realistically speaking.

It does bring a bit more than a tempest but lacks healing and is harder to use.

I play a healing Revenant in Open World, WvW, and sometimes Raids. It does not in any way lack healing, in fact the numbers are matched with druids. It is more unreliable to use though, I agree. It’s unreliability, along with the fact that everyone is missing out on a potential 15% damage buff from druids, makes Ventari Rev inferior, but it is NOT because of lacking in heals.

It is lacking in heals Ventari might have big numbers popping up frequently but druids have bigger numbers and more frequently. Do the calculations.

As someone who plays both druid and Ventari, it’s not about how frequently you heal, it’s about if you’re able to heal when it’s needed. If you’re popping out heals when everyone is already full, then you’re wasting your time (Unless you’re trying to give everyone GotL). Playing both Ventari and Druid with my raiding guilds, we have not noticed a difference in survivability. At all.

Well that’s because raiding has low healing requirements. Conquest(PvP) does not…

MercenaryNote.8506:

Varezenem.2813:

Rym.1469:

Yes, but apart from being fun, it brings nothing over Druid or Tempest, realistically speaking.

It does bring a bit more than a tempest but lacks healing and is harder to use.

I play a healing Revenant in Open World, WvW, and sometimes Raids. It does not in any way lack healing, in fact the numbers are matched with druids. It is more unreliable to use though, I agree. It’s unreliability, along with the fact that everyone is missing out on a potential 15% damage buff from druids, makes Ventari Rev inferior, but it is NOT because of lacking in heals.

It is lacking in heals Ventari might have big numbers popping up frequently but druids have bigger numbers and more frequently. Do the calculations.

Burtnik.5218:

lighter.2708:

Ravenmoon.5318:

lighter.2708:

Spartacus.3192:

because some power specs last more than the 3 seconds that the average power rev lasts vs the condi cancer classes out there.

what….rev has the second most reliable way to remove chills(first of thief but thief is not viable), the strongest condition in the current meta….the only thing it has to be careful is mesmer shatter..but rev also has plenty of evades and blocks to avoid the shatters…also rev has a medium HP..

You did bring your jokes bag with you this morning

seriously l2p issue on your part, i bet you are the kind of person who spams skills and use sword 3 when you see 10 stacks of confusion on you

Im doing that all the time. From low to full hp in no time. That said theres no reason for UA to proc confu 6 times just like there is no reason to break channel on stealth targets.

Indeed that’s one of the more eepffective ways I found in fighting mesmers.

Om Im.7863:

Spartacus.3192:

Varezenem.2813:

Charged mists is the Invocation GM that is never used (might on threshold) what exactly are you referring to?

Exactly. Who even uses Charged Mists GM trait? It gives 2 stacks of might when you use a skill that drops your Energy below 50, when compared to Roiling Mists which is a free extra 20% crit chance when you have Fury.

From the context and the way in which it was described, it would have been quite obvious that staff 5 was being discussed if one had stopped to think about it.

Staff 5 has 9 hits not 11~12… Also it’s far from a AoE it’s a 3 target line cast skill the chances of hitting more than one target with the full damage are negligible. Also proc refers to passive stuff Surge of the mists is a active skill.

Om Im.7863:

FrownyClown.8402:

Equilibrium is generally used for added damage to a staff 5. The goal is to be close to the opponent, switch to staff and switch to shiro, essentially procing sigil of hydromancy and equilibrium on top of a staff 5

It is used during Charged Mists or UA for guaranteed hits and extremely potent wasting of defences. The reality of many match-ups will have you proc it outside these two scenarios.

The combo that you described is also probably one of the biggest cancers in this game. It is certainly up there. As if Charged Mists wasn`t ridiculous power creep with minimal counter play as it is, on its own…

Tested on a zerker power build with Devastation + Invocation + Herald, runes of strength, all damage modifiers traited. Was casual skill rotations, focused on keeping might stacks close to 25 and some boons for Elder`s Strength rather than having Rapid Lacerations at max. Done on Svanir below 50% (for Swift Termination). Hydromancy proc: 2k crit, Equilibrium proc: 5k crit, Charged Mists proc: 13k (with 11/12 crits). Total: a 20k lock.

Yes, it requires some set-up, the degree of the reward though… that dmg in the combo is AoE btw. Still minimal counter play if used right and most of the set-up is part of your usual rotation of skills.

Charged mists is the Invocation GM that is never used (might on threshold) what exactly are you referring to?

bluri.2653:

I don’t want to take anything away from the guys we played against but we had no expectations whatsoever coming into this, we are more or less just playing this PL season out hence why we went on other classes than meta to put on a show, we were expecting to get 500-0 more or less.

Also it was the first time we played with Skovo/Baenz who we just asked to help us to get 5 players, we were also not using TS. I’m still glad we did this, it was also very enjoyable for all of us even if we lost in the end

That was a rather impressive match specially given your constraints.

Burtnik.5218:

Me for;

Hammer buff
Sword oh buff
Sword mh rework
Jalis rework/buff
Revert nerf on stab from retribution
Rework enh bulwark to get rid of braindead perma stab on dodge
Shiro heal buff
Eye for eye nerf
Mallyx rework

What we will get instead;
Sword mh nerf
Shiro nerf
Glint nerf
Staff nerf

See ya in few hours to kitten again about terrible patch.

Hey you said hopes not reality.
I hope for Ventari buffs or at least not so hard nerf to the rest.
Last balance patch made Ventari unplayable…

DiogoSilva.7089:

I think your average, non-hardcore player is more worried about usability issues than number tweaks. The tablet requires too much micromanaging, which may be fine with similar mechanics in games like League of legends, where combat is generally simpler, than it is in GW2, where you already have a lot of things to micromanage in the first place.

Most of the suggestions usually revolve around QoL changes that minimize button presses, like auto-summoning (scrap the mechanics for breaking a tablet, have the elite skill put all others on cooldown, and call it a day), auto-follow (if not always ON, then merely have it come closer when you leave its range, instead of having it break) or slighly bigger spells radius for a higher 6 cooldown (so that you don’t need to spam it so often merely to reposition the tablet one inch closer).

In other words, streamline the mechanics, remove complexity creep, etc.

Nah nothing against QoL stuff like reducing the clunkiness by making the tablet instacast or Port and for the autosummon IMO the best approach is autosummon on Skill usage. But a lot of the topics about ventari Balancing contained the suggestion of following and increasing condicleanse through the roof. (I should know that after all I read them all.)
Instacast/port while affecting numbers do not create the same problem a following tablet does.
Auto following creates a strong limitation on self heal and makes heal while the tablet is stationary inferior, while instacast/port only decreases the overall “reliability multiplier” mentioned in the first note.

BTW currently Ventaris numbers are below that of a druid/tempest.

sephiroth.4217:

mysterion.1276:

Espidow.1729:

Thanks for the tip but I’m looking for advice of how to fight in a 1v1 scenario vs each class not about how to play in general, but again, I thank you for the tip.

You should never 1v1 as thief unless you have no other choice.

Not all thieves are bad tho… Some people are actually really good as thief and more valuable than most team mates I come across.

While thia might be true you are assuming the thief is a better Player than the oponent. He is assuming they are equal or close to that.

Loop.8106:

Please Arenanet. I don’t want to play with Ventari revs and venomshare DD thieves for a month.

Well a good Ventari rev can be good against a full power comp.

For all of those who intend to do a balance thread involving Ventari consider these points

• 1. Compare optimal outgoing healing output with Tempests/druids

If it’s not higher than a tempest it’s not enough. Since Ventari is a sustained healer, constrained by energy and naturally harder use. The real values will be far lower than the optimal values.

• 2. Do not increase sustain significantly

Revenants have access to many sources of active defense and passive defenses against power damage. Because of that self-healing has to be on the lower side to not create a unkillable bunker.
Currently Ventaris self-healing can be increased due to the strong presence of condi damage and high burst power. Acceptable values would be from around what was lost with shield 5 nerf to 15%.
To increase Healing values without increasing self sustain increase outgoing healing modifiers.

• 3. Do not suggest a following tablet

This removes flavor from ventari (making him a inferior tempest clone). Doing so would increase self sustain significantly by making the tablet far more reliable for self healing and it will either break rule number 2 or force Ventari into a lower outgoing healing value.

Also balance him around the clerics amulet since this is the closest to be viable.

shahryar.8437:

So far my armor is a bit mixed but mostly apotehcary except for teh chest piece which is wanderer
Mnot eapons right now are a shield and mace minstrel and settler respectively
and a pact crusher hammer.
for trinkets I have mithril snowflake earrings and one ring, also a Vassar’s Band an orichalcom snowflake amulet

I mostly want healing and survivability. The reason I was going apothecary was more so using a mace wasn’t totally worthless lol
No runes yet because money I know monk runes are probably best however I have absolutely no clue what sigils to put on my weapons lol.

This is probably an odd hodgepodge of junk but it is what I can afford right now. So I am more looking to the future of what I should focus on. lol I know ventari isnt considered the best healer but for me it is kitten fun.

Get some clerics/magi(lower personal damage but goes with sigil of strength) gear… Sword/sh staff, mace is worthless without the corruption line and mallyx.
Ventari is worthless without the salvation and herald lines.
Invocation can be taken for more healing and DPS or devastation for a better offensive support(goes with magis).

In the end there are these two main variations for pve:
Self-dps/Heal/Tank
Offensive Support

I wouldn’t recommend going for zealots since it’s a massive heal loss for a negligible DPS increase and Ventari already lacks healing.

If you really prefer going the condi route something like this or this might work not sure on how effective this is.

Full might stack+hoelbrak runes on zerker amulet on the invocation herald version.
Or strength runes+force sigil+Swift termination + any might stack on zerker invocation herald.

It’s not “revenant glitching people in to wall” it’s “knock back/launch glitching players in to walls”. BTW revenants can glitch themselves into walls.

Markus.9084:

Fluffball.8307:

It does make you a better PvPer to play other classes, in a way that just reading about them doesn’t accomplish.

If someone was an expert at every single profession, that person would be an absolute nightmare to duel.

I usually ask my guildmates “How can i counter that ? — Use condi/it has a long cd, dodge it/pop your invu” and it’s fine…… OR I die, and die, and die until I learn how to counter it. Like in old games….
I’m not really a forum whiner asking for nerfs (you can check my forum account if you want).
And i’ve seen some kittenty meta in WvW (from the spamm 2 celestial thieves to the perplexity Warriors", and I’ve always chosen the right build to counter it….

Back on topic : I can understand your point of view : you say that the perfect pvp-er should play all class, in order to perfectly understand each one….. But then why should I play 2 of them to have the achievements ? Why not 9 ?

If you lower the number of class you must master from 9 to 2 to unlock the achivement, why not lower it again to 1 ?

The actual number is 3. If you want to do this achievement without playing another profession you can swap to another profession at the end of a match.

Arlinon.7614:

OminousClouds.4517:

following THE META takes you to heaven

we dont need warrior or thief any more pls delet war from PVP Anet.

I see exact opposite of that game too, necro party getting beaten by warrior party etc. This is just confirmation bias.

Not only that your side lacked any kind of support in a teamfight map.

Zelulose.8695:

sinject.4607:

1. scrapper:

• nerf hammer damage across the board by 25%.
• nerf Rocket Charge to only provide a leap finisher on the first leap.
• nerf stability duration on Perfectly Weighted or remove the 10% damage increase entirely
• nerf Sneak Gyro to give it a 1/2 cast time; prevents it from acting as a free stunbreak and also gives it more counterplay similar to Supply Crate.
• nerf Slick Shoes; i think everyone agrees this is a toxic mechanic that needs more counterplay.

2. reaper/chronomancer:

• remove Mercenary’s Amulet
• nerf boon strip/condi transfer on Reaper.
• nerf “Rise!”/shambling horrors (also make it stop spawning Horrors on objects like on Kyhlo’s crates).
• nerf Continuum Split as to not affect Elites (Moa…).

3. herald:

• nerf Precision Strike; reduce damage and force it to have a target. there is no reason this should be tracking people in stealth beyond the behavior of a normal projectile attack.
• nerf Staff; Warding Rift or Surge of the Mists- one of the support attacks has to lose strength.

4. druid:

• nerf Bristleback slightly, say 10-15%
• slightly nerf protection or weakness uptime

5. dragonhunter:

• nerf Piercing Light; reduce daze duration to 1/4 sec from 1/2 to bring it strictly inline with interrupting, not locking down- they have far too many tools to do this already.
• nerf Shield of Courage slightly.
• nerf Dragon’s Maw in a similar manner to Slick Shoes; they’re both warding-type skills and something has to change about them. Getting caught in DMaw is often death because of the combination of Test of Faith punishing any teleports out unless you can get up to dodge + teleport before getting bursted to death.

6. tempest:

• nerf Overload Air’s damage or CD.
• nerf Protection uptime,

daredevil is the only balanced profession imo (despite my bias); not needing any buffs nor any nerfs.

beserker obviously needs some help but it’s not nearly as bad as people say, i’ve seen people make it work.

i also want to emphasize just cause professions like scrapper and chronomancer have ridiculously strong builds right now (soon to be nerfed im sure), we should also look at how to buff them as well; i know scrappers all find hammer boring but it’s the only thing they can play, similar to how Mercenary Chrono is the only thing left for mesmers. Lets nerf the mindless overpowered stuff and look to buff more challenging mechanics that raise the profession’s skill ceiling.

This is why I am pressing so hard for the sustain nerf. This is the way the dev’s think. They keep buffing and nerfing damage. A damage nerf will only result in more immortal specs. The more they nerf damage the better the sustain specs will be. I would rather they nerf sustain down to the ground first then consider damage nerfs after players have to chose between damage or tank.

Be it obvious or not sustain needs affect bunker specs a lot more. Especially when a profession is focused on active defenses like the revenant. Therefore after a sustain nerf you are more likely to not even have a choice.
Also it’s stupid to nerf sustain first in a weapon where primary function is sustain.

Zelulose.8695:

Reduce sustainability across all classes. One example of sustainability is revenant receiving almost 100% damage mitigation in dwarven stance with free protection from dragon stance. I have reduced 2k’s to 200s damage on this class and I am able to maintain at least (7+33+20+10)% damage reduction with near 100% up-time.

Yeah Jalis is so meta right now I see 4 Jalis/Glint revenants every match.

insanemaniac.2456:

Varezenem.2813:

Takato.4976:

I dunno, I mean this just happened.

I’m not sure if my team of diamond were just THAT good and had to fight better players, no a better overall team, for this to happen.

The queue was pretty fast/average too, wasn’t any 10+ min type of thing, more along the lines of 3-5 min.

EDIT : Changed the pic and it’s being wonky maybe.
Either way, it was full diamond vs full legendary.

Explanation is simple they were lower level legends vs upper level diamond. Only the diamonds were in your MMR range while only legendaries were available in one of the legendaries MMR range.

pretty close but:

there is no such thing as “lower level legend” to matchmaking, once you get to legend matchmaking ignores pip range except that you prolly shouldnt ever see a diamond lower than about t5.

There is lower legend read the algorithm again. It’s even explicitly said in the post:

As we’ve mentioned previously, Ranked matchmaking in PvP during season two will now be based primarily on your current division placement and a predetermined “pip range” that extends from that spot. We’ll search for other players that fall within your pip range (which can extend outside of your division depending on where you’re currently placed) and pair you up with teammates who have a similar skill level to your own. We’ll then find you opponents within that same pip range and pair them against you, regardless of their skill level. For players that queue as a pre-made group, the pip range that we’ll use to find you both teammates and opponents will be based off of the player with the highest division placement in your group (which, as a reminder, is a change that we’ve already introduced to the game prior to the end of season one).

source

Burtnik.5218:

https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/720960002379407360

Unlike the crap rev has.

I’m interested in the numbers =p.

Dante.1508:

Varezenem.2813:

Nope it’s just that nothing you are saying is new. Therefore it’s treated like the norm.

Wow really so broken content is the norm now..

Nah, just for reference ranger sword AA is getting fixed now.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

This is my opinion based on my experience playing in ranked and unranked arena. If you disagree with any of my points, you are welcome to share your experience in comment section bellow.

GENERAL FLAWS
1) Too much AOE spam. Only few dedicated classes/builds should be able to spam AOE. Now every class can launch AOE all around and pvp battles is more like AOE battles than anything else.
2) Too many CC. Each class should have 1 or 2 CC abilities, unless focused heavily on CC, but deal less damage and healing. Now some classes with CC focused builds can CC you until you die and you can’t do anything about it, unless you take a lot of stun breakers.
3) Too many boon spams. Nearly every class can now spam boons endlessly. That is not right and it puts strain on pvp balance. Especially – stability.

ELEMENTALIST
4) Aura build have too much sustain. It is nearly impossible to kill bruiser elementalist 1v1.

WARRIOR
5) Too unreliable. You have to either go defensive and lose lots of damage or go full damage, but be squishy as hell.
6) It have only 1 decent build, which is used by nearly every warrior now.
7) Condition warrior is maybe the worst build, compared to any at least half viable build out there.

RANGER
8) Druid have too much sustain. Same as bruiser elementalist – nearly no one can kill it in 1v1.
9) Deals too much damage having this much of sustain. I have literally seen Druid fight off 3 people, not dying, while downing at least one out of three every 5-10 sec.
10) Pets are too strong. I have seen Bristleback F2 dealing 14k damage.

NECROMANCER
11) Greatsword should be reapers main tool and strongest weapon, but it isn’t. Greatsword is the worst weapon for reaper, even axe is better.
12) No defensive tools, no mobility abilities. The one thing necromancer can do is dealing damage. That is pretty boring, even if damage is quite good at the moment (reaper only, though, because core necromancer is weaker than anyone).
13) Minions are weak and useless. The only use for minions necromancer have while leveling up. In pvp, however, minions are dead weight and usually are used only for Death Nova trait.
14) Same as warrior, necromancer have only 1 (well, maybe 2) viable builds.

GUARDIAN
15) 3-4 traps dragon hunter have too much burst (can don’t nearly anyone over 1 sec).
16) Burn guardian is too dependent on certain traits and is useless without them.

THIEF
17) Deals way way too much damage. It is at same level as walking into 4 dragon hunter’s traps.
18) Can spam stealth too much. It can literally do this until it kills someone: attack with one ability -> stealth -> attack with one ability -> stealth -> attack with one ability -> stealth -> ……
19) Is a little bit too squishy.

ENGINEER
20) Pretty much all bad (OP) things about other classes combined into one: deals too much damage, have only one viable build (scrapper), have too high sustain, too much CC and so on.
21) Have too many defensive tools.

MESMER
22) Continuum Shift is game breaking and should be removed.
23) Power build deals too much damage. Combine it with stealth, clones and other strong abilities – most of other classes can’t do anything against power mesmer. (same could go for condition mesmer, but condition mesmer have lower damage)

REVENANT
24) Sustain too high.
25) Damage too high.
26) Too many defensive tools.
27) Too many CC.
28) Literally the most broken class.

Let me guess necro necro main….

Takato.4976:

I dunno, I mean this just happened.

I’m not sure if my team of diamond were just THAT good and had to fight better players, no a better overall team, for this to happen.

The queue was pretty fast/average too, wasn’t any 10+ min type of thing, more along the lines of 3-5 min.

EDIT : Changed the pic and it’s being wonky maybe.
Either way, it was full diamond vs full legendary.

Explanation is simple they were lower level legends vs upper level diamond. Only the diamonds were in your MMR range while only legendaries were available in one of the legendaries MMR range.