Just a little correction:
So is the adept 10% damage multiplier against crippled foes. We can definitely always benefit from it in PvE, where the condition could be applied by other players, but the trait only makes sense as a bow/trap related trait since those are our only reliable cripple sources.
Superior Sigil of Incapacitation
LB autoattack will also cripple both targets if it bounces (more than one target is hit).
I still need to see real time/real opponent reaction to projectile speed of arrows to target before any real commentary can be made.
I’m sure it’ll be no different than a Warrior’s arrow projectiles on his bow. It’s very much dodgeable at 600 range but unlike a warriors specific, high cd skills, no one is going to trouble themselves with dodging an autoattack cripple compared to other skills.
Our “kill shot” arrow will be obvious, especially at 1200 range. But not in a game breaking way, it’ll still be useful.
You’re pretty wrong. Anet already mentioned that all arrows will have Read the Wind projectile speed as baseline, meaning all of them have their arrow speed increased by 100% on default.
I thought that was for rangers AKA the guys who lost read the wind…
Unless a zealot amulet is added to PvP, I don’t think staffbow guardians would be much of a thing. Even then, simply speccing into DH contradictorily takes away a guardian’s innate ranged support (virtues). As such, I think scepter/longbow guardians are a more likely thing.
I don’t really see why a support guardian (the only guardians that would want to use staffs) would spec into DH anyway.
The only meh reasons I can think of is a second ranged symbol that they can use from the backlines along with writ of persistence and vulnerability spike through big game hunter.
Hey everybody keep in mind we don’t have to use longbow with Dragon Hunter.
I plan to use DH with Melee weapons and using traps for Melee combat. In PvP I plan to use Traps for defending cap points with Melee weapons and defensive builds..You’re kinda gimping yourself given how you’re losing the bonus damage of “Pure of Sight” by going melee.
I’m already gimping myself by going zeal since the symbol of wrath doesnt help when I play well and I’m not allowed to use symbols when the scepter ele’s from the guild join the party (not that the 3seconds of vulnerability would be any help).
I mean, the lack of Two Handed Mastery trait in the expansion will not only hurt the support that currently provides the staff: will also tear appart the greatsword and hammer rotations in meditation builds.
I see no compensation for the dps/momentum lost with the lack of this trait (I known that some popular med variants doesn’t invest points in Honor, but I do and I saw this absence as a HUGE nerf in damage/cc).
Ive never seen a meditation build that goes further than 1 point in honor…
The only pve utility the necro provides is high weakness uptime for high level FoTM and even that is easily replaced if others carry skale venom consumables.
I think you’re going to get a lot of negative feedback with the title.. But I am inclined to agree, to some extent.
With our old trait lines being bolstered so much I’m having a hard time working out when I would want to take the DH line. Coming from a purely PvE perspective I see almost no reason that DH would be taken outside of a potential max DPS build (utilising Big Game Hunter) that sacrifices utility for the sake of DPS.
In my personal opinion the 2 minors are straight up BAD and wholly unappealing for PvE.
- Defenders Dogma: Getting a free ‘5th attack’ proc on Virtue of Justice after a block is too niche, and while it may happen in PvE encounters, it won’t happen often and the result of it proccing will be underwhelming.
- Pure of Sight: Just plain bad. This damage multiplier will never be active with PvE’s current state. Why not bake this into the Longbow AA?
The virtues sound fairly appealing, with the re-work of justice and courage being seemingly more powerful, with courage verging on OP if it retains its ‘all attacks’ blocking, rather than just projectiles. Not sure if it’s just me, or the stream, but I hate the animation for the justice spear-tether, the chains looked awful and the de-tethering animation was clunky and ugly (/rant).
I feel like the traits weren’t at all well thought out either, some of my favourite bad examples are:
- Piercing Light: This feels like a trait thrown together to appeal to condi builds and to make it seem like traps weren’t shoehorned into the guardian class.
- Hunter’s Determination: I am truly struggling to work out how a brief bit of stability on a ranged weapon skill is useful.. Even assuming you’re in the fray, and that CC is being thrown your way, it comes after a cast-time skill.. which could be interrupted. I don’t like this trait at all, maybe put 2 seconds of stab on cast, and 1 extra per target hit? Though that’s potentially too powerful.
- Dulled Senses: This trait feels like it was implemented purely to synergise with the bad GM trait that knocks back.. as is the guard has minimal knockbacks, certainly not worth traiting for.
- Hunter’s Fortification: 4 seconds of protection in a TINY radius on virtues.. and it’s a GM trait? This is god awful protection up time tied to important CD’s, it’s only going to trigger passively, nobody would ever pop a virtue for this. Maybe virtue of justice spam on trash mobs would have some nice synergy, but it’s so niche, and requires 2 trait lines.. not even worth humouring. If you want prot uptime, take a hammer, not a GM.
- Heavy Light: Tiny knockback with a sizeable ICD that only applies to ONE weapon.. No thanks. What’s more it’s not even controllable, it could proc at a stupid time that serves you little to no benefit, passive rubbish at its finest.
There’s plenty more I could say about the traits, with numerous others being (IMHO) equally bad, but I won’t bore people.
The traps seem ok, though I doubt they will ever be seriously run outside of gimmick builds (also the maw animation looked awful and low-res, but that could be me again).
I’ve no issue with longbow and the skills associated with it, skill 5 could use a CD reduction, but my main beef is with the traits.
I felt the same way about dulled senses till i found out wards and sanctuary are knockbacks instead of knockdowns
Rangers gotta realize that they have a pet dealing passive damage, 300 more range and they are not rooted while casting RF. All this crying about DH makes no sense except for those people who wanted to play with a longbow that’s faster than a warrior’s without being burdened by the pet.
Staffbow meta, mark my words
here you go full support staffbow guard http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgIEmAXsBqw~
Actually it’s easy enough to prove. You might get loot if you crit but if you don’t, I think you don’t do enough damage. It’s not about zerkers or not, it’s about getting a certain damage threshold on a mob.
I mean, if people want to rock staff, go ahead but they shouldn’t delude themselves on how good it is.
It is, with the power from a zerker build crit is not necessary to meet the damage threshhold even if you run with soldiers armor you still dont miss any loot as long as your build is berserker ( aka zeal/radiance/virtue) to pick up all the damage modifiers and the power from zeal.
People using staff in PVE mass tagging run the risk of not getting any loot because it’s damage is so bad and mobs die so quickly. Hammer #2 is better and guarantees lootrights. Staff is a sad, sad weapon and yes, it’s AA animation is a little weird.
your not playing with zerker then >:} not enaught damage in the race to receive loot.
“dont take this post seriously is more like a joke about gw2 mechanics”
It’s funny because its true, only non zerkers risk not getting loot.
Rarely used? Staff AA is the best tagging skill in the game used in wvw EoTM and open world events to collect the most loot.
Animation wise I think there are worse skills on the staff (male human empower for example)
Hey since you are counting on being downed the majority of the time and hoping to die faster when there I heard necro has this amazing trait that increases damage by 25% when downed, might get you more kills and allows you die quicker.
Strength of the Fallen is so bad that it would be better to not take a trait at all actually. The “Lose health slower while downed” component makes it so that you bleed out slower which is a huge nerf. It can and will loose you games.
Which is why you fight on points so they have to kill you to decap unlesss they can launch.
I agree those numbers were very low on damage. Im not sure on what gear he was using but those werent big numbers.
The only way he could hit 30k hp is by having a Vit primary ammy, meaning he had to have been at LEAST short like 300 power. His crit wasn’t there either so he was likely in Sentinel’s.
Nope Sentinel’s on a necro wouldve put him at 32k min now that traits dont have stats anymore
it definitly had a lot vitality but it wasn’t the main stat of the whole set.
I disagree. If someone is running a vanguard type build that doesn’t use meditations, they might want to take strength of the fallen over smiter’s boon. As a guardian who runs pvt for wvw, I rarely find myself using my healing skill (and when I do, it’s to retreat, and block attacks), so strength of the fallen would be superior in that case.
On the other hand, if I was dueling, I don’t plan on getting downed, and would be popping my heal every time it’s on cd, so whether or not I’m running medis (which I likely would be), smiter’s boon would be superior here.
If you are not taking monk’s focus smiter’s boon is not worth it for dueling because our shortest CD heal is 30 seconds and 3 potential cleanses > than just 1.
Then that becomes superior to Strength of the Fallen where you lose 1 condition every 10s.
1 of them needs to go. Preferably for retributive armor where you gain precision based on toughness.
If you are not running a meditation build strength of the fallen is better, if you are then smiter’s boon is better. its all up to the user.
So a wvw dueling build? Racials ar not allowed in pvp.
Ppl are taking Augury of death into account as if it was baseline, Chill nova will be the top dog in pve, and relentless pursuit will be staple in pvp as it is. A trait to bandaid bad shouts is not worth it.
Thing about Forceful Greatsword though, Warriors, last I checked, do not have a Greatsword skill that could have 55 separate hits+whirl bolts in 2 seconds.
That being said, I wonder if the real concern the devs have with that trait is the Life force gained. Never mind the might (especially since Reaper’s Might with the Reaper’s Shroud AA can maintain max might hitting just one guy, never mind three.) Use Soul Spiral against a mass of chilled foes, and that’s over half your life force bar refilled in a single attack.
Or Death Spiral: Hits 6 times on up to 3 targets, for an additional 18% life force, which doesn’t seem like much until you remember that Death Spiral already generates 36% LF under ideal conditions for total of 54% LF gain, on a skill with a 10sec base cooldown.
Numbers like that, you wouldn’t leave RS because you have to, you leave only because you want to.
The true question is how often will you be able to land 3second duration ability on 5 targets in a 300 radius and 40 sec cooldown. The answer will proably be not often enough to justify a big nerf.
(edited by Vizardlorde.8243)
And if it gave 20,000 LF off of 5 targets every 20 seconds? You better believe I’d trade regular healing and a full cleanse for it. We can use a utility slot for a full cleanse that also serves as a stun break. We can select weapons with good cleanse. I have options to deal with cleansing.
So you’d take life force on a weaker heal plus Plague Signet (much higher cd than Consume) instead of Consume Conditions and a better utility skill? I definitely wouldn’t.
Also, since when does Spectral Wall generate LF at any time besides being cast with the appropriate trait? Maybe that’s a change they made recently or something.
4% whenever an enemy runs into it. Not sure if it ever didn’t generate life force this way…
I would take LF + a weaker heal + Plague Signet (high cooldown, also a stun-break and an instant transfer that can’t be interrupted) instead of Consume Conditions and a different utility (Plague Signet serves me very well in almost any situation) situationally. There’s more than one situation that can arise in this game, and people play more than one game mode where it might not be as effective.
Also, Necro tooltips fail again. Nowhere does any skill or trait indicate that Spectral Wall provides LF when an enemy runs into it. I’m sure the excuse is that it doesn’t provide the LF on cast, so they can’t put it in the on-cast tooltip. Regardless, it’s the same dumb flaw Spectral Armor has, which specifically says “Removed when you enter Death Shroud.”
How irritating.
Upcoming update nerfing tooltips to show truthful values and descriptions , AGAIN!
that mace please an actual mace looking mace.
Theres a couple that look like maces: Guild Pummeler, Hero’s Mace :p
That would butcher chilling force just to reduce blighter boon. I cant agree to that at all.
At the moment chilling force does the same as forceful greatsword. But requires perma chill. If you cap that or add an ICD it totally ruins the trait.
Refer to empowering might, the trait that is seldomly used by AH guards because it has no use otherwise ( the duration makes it so its capped at 5 stacks tops unless you have boon duration AND ridiculous crit).
Roe, How are you going to fight a ranger? How are you going to fight a Dragon Knight? A shortbow thief? a condi thief? pistol engi? nades?
My longbow ranger uses chill and cripple runes… I can see it now. Reapers are cannon fodder.
pretty sure the 33-66% snare duration will be staple in all reaper builds all they need is a staff and they can close the gap enough to get in range for the GS pull
Swiftness/25% move speed in RS. Infusing terror and the leap. Spectral grasp or the Reapers Grasp.
Sorted.
I was thinking more along the lines of staff 4 to send the snares back, staff 3 for ranged chill, and staff 5 for cc + chill. but that works too.
Roe, How are you going to fight a ranger? How are you going to fight a Dragon Knight? A shortbow thief? a condi thief? pistol engi? nades?
My longbow ranger uses chill and cripple runes… I can see it now. Reapers are cannon fodder.
pretty sure the 33-66% snare duration will be staple in all reaper builds all they need is a staff and they can close the gap enough to get in range for the GS pull
The grand master doesnt heal you if you use shouts, it only gives you LF. The heals only ocurr while in RS so that leaves the master trait of hitting chilled targets, might on lifeblast, regen when hit under 90%, fury on death shroud etc. no utility.
So a shout that gives you life force and scales up the more enemies it hits isn’t utility? You’re all weaklings will be a stun break that also give’s 4-20% life force refill with blighter’s boon. The heal will do the same. Being able to quickly have 40% life force in group fights seems pretty strong to me.
If it was insta cast and you had something like unholy sanctuary to bypass the CD on DS then it would start to hit broken levels of OP:
Hit 5 targets for a 15-20 second CD on the heal and “YaaW” which gives 40% life force. Since they can also do damage and crit while being instant, you can do other stuff while shouting to easily hit 50% life force or more in 2 seconds. A group trains you but whatever, 5.5k heal on a 15 second CD and US forces you into DS regardless of CD. 50% life force to last about 15 seconds in a bunkerish/bruiser build. Scythe DS auto has life force generation built into it. If you don’t have US and go blood instead, you’re life steals now heal in DS AND from what I can tell, blighter boon doesn’t require the boon to come from you. Shout warrior, ele, guard etc can now easily heal you while you are in DS on top of the might etc from your own auto attacks etc in DS. This can quickly become invincible with no counterplay because the insta heal/LF on shouts and auto proc on DS via US. Add spectral armor and last grasp in there and yeah…. too OP. This is why I think the cast time has to be there to add some counterplay. Otherwise, the % gain needs to be nerfed/# of boons decreased.So those two shouts seem strong to me. I don’t play MM necro but “Rise” was initially interesting in a similar level when thinking from an engi perspective of detonate all minions for better pay off. My reasoning was that 12% life force per minion that dies means you spam 5 minions in larger fights = 60% life force from 1 skill as enemies try to cleave you down. This is another great way to scale defenses in team fights. However, after testing in game, that doesn’t work. Since Anet is asking for feedback on this, maybe ask for a minion that gives life force when it dies? And for people that do play minion builds/having more corpse explosions of stacking poison fields seems pretty strong; also this skill won’t go on CD once the minions die. It starts the CD immediatly because there is no secondary active. So it has that bonus compared to normal minion skills.
Having unblockable attacks is just nice although niche. Converting boons is great as well.
I have to say I find it a bit ironic that people were complaining about the data mined Jade wind elite that is a 2 second AOE stun being op but add great damage, chill, resistance or stability and necro to the mix, and suddenly it’s weak because necro >.<
Suffer would do well to transfer all conditions to all enemies instead of sharing 1 of each. I also wonder how this will work with runes of trooper. Does that first clear condi then transfer extra or the other way around?
I’m not questioning the strength of the traits im questioning the shouts. only 1 shout benefits from reaper’s boon, and 20% life force from 5 targets is garbage compared to a spectral. In pvp you will almost never encounter a 1v 5 (5v5 are even more rare) suituation that you’ll survive especially not with a necromancer.
(edited by Vizardlorde.8243)
Thats where the rune of ice and the chill nova trait come in and save the day :p
So the trick would be to keep chill on a foe indefinitely. Sounds easier said than done, and to use the might on chill, you’d have to give up Decimate Defenses.
Still have deathly perception which is strong enough enough mixing the two is overkill as you’d reach ridiculous level of crit chance(120+% while in RS.)
They should simply balance it around 3 targets, so 5 will be better than normal and 1 worse than normal.
The shout already hits five people. Also we don’t know if the vocalization is called after the 2s or before(Someone Confirm). If its after then it looks like any other regular channel right? Besides applying 12s of chill to anyone is pretty strong. Keeping in mind guys the KS #5 is quite similar to the shout in some ways. So you can see it as having 3 executes if you like CTTB being longest to cast at 2 the others Gravedigger and Executioners Scythe taking 1 1/4s to cast.
You completely missed the point. Currently they balance it around the “best case scenario”, meaning hitting 5. That where they base all cd’s and casttimes around, which is stupid, as in reality in sPvP it will be mostly hitting 2-3 enemies. Which means they should balance those things around THREE enemies being hit instead of FIVE. Meaning all casttimes reduced by half, and cooldowns reduced on the high CD shouts by 20% or similar. Then in the very unlikely case you have 5 enemies around you in PvP it will be crazy good, if you have 2-3 its good, with 1 its bad to decent. Of course in PvE it would be 5 enemies a lot more often, but who cares if these types of shouts are a little on the strong side in PvE. Especially since other classes can do similar things currently. And as for WvW… Well they would have to test how it works there for perfect numbers.
Actually this is the key word. TEST THE SHOUTS IN REAL SITUATIONS. Not balance them based on theory crafting and hitting stationary golems that are conveniantly piled up.
Actually, the first comment they made for the Shout trait that reduces its cooldown was that “If you hit 3 targets, you get the usual 20% CD reduction you normally get from traits”. If you hit < 3, you get less benefit. If you hit > 3, you get more.
Similarly, with the Might shout, you get 4 stacks per target. If you hit 3, 12 stacks of might is pretty good. If you hit 1 – 2, you only get 4 – 8, which isn’t quite as bursty, and if you hit 5, you get 20, which is pretty incredible set-up. The Weakness application is universally good, the boon conversion is universally good, and the condi transfer is about average if you hit 3 players (3 conditions removed, sound familiar?), is better if you hit 4 – 5, and is less effective if you just hit 1 – 2.
So in reality, it looks like they are trying to balance the skills to be good but not great against 3 or so people. And you’re assuming no one in PvP will ever have illusions/minions/turrets/pets/other things the Shout can hit.
12 stacks of might for 4 seconds is NOTHING, You can probably pull off 3 attacks affected by might at best. With blood is power i can get 12 stacks for 10 seconds without no target and a lower base cooldown.
And illusions and the mesmer pets are the only additional targets we’ll run into in pvp. With the turret nerf and the upcoming rooted spirits, turret engies and spirit ranger are dead. When was the last time you ran into a MM and a spirit guardian in a ranked match? I think Ive run into two MMs in the past year or so.
(edited by Vizardlorde.8243)
I already posted this in the dungeon forums. But i thought it might be useful for it be here aswell.
I worked out the damage coefficients of the skills by using the tooltips shown on the stream. You could work out his power by adjusting your ingame power to match the BiP tooltip damage shown on stream. Estimate of power he had was 1950. It was heart of the mists so i assumed exotic greatsword which means a weapon power of 1000. Heres the coefficients i got.
Greatsword
Dusk Strike – 0.861
Fading Twilight – 0.861
Chilling Scythe – 1.013Gravedigger – 2.027
Death Spiral – 0.912
Nightfall – 0.731
Reaper’s Grasp – 1.013
Reaper’s Shroud
Life Rend – 0.608
Life Slash – 0.608
Life Reap – 1.216Death’s Charge – 1.013
Soul Spiral – 2.787
Executioner’s Scythe – 1.520, 2.027, 2.533
Other Stuff
Shouts – 0.345
Elite Shout – 1.379
Chilling Nova – 0.137
So yeah the greatsword coefficients arent amazing. Neither are the Reaper shroud ones to be honest. Also take into account that necro has less damage modifier traits than other classes. These probably arent high enough especially as they are quite slow.
Chilling Scythe should be atleast 1.2 coefficient. Guard greatsword has a better auto attack than this currently. Its also faster and gets more modifiers through traits.
Check out the wiki to compare coefficients on other classes. And remember most of them have way more and way better damage modifier traits. So we need high coefficients as base just to be equal.
PS. I understand these might change. Just though it would be useful to give feedback on what sort of numbers we think we should get on a few skills. Some of them i think are fair. Some are a bit lackluster especially considering how slow and clunky many of them are.
Sorry for being ignorant, but how does this compare to our current coefficients (dagger auto, life blast etc.)?
Dagger autoattack chain is 0.9*2 , 0.7, 1.2.
1. Might stacking, at least in short durations, is very, very easy for Reapers. Reaper’s Might stacks faster than with Death Shroud, but more importantly is Frozen Might, which, if left as-is, will give you Might stacks on every hit if you’re good with your chill application. Up to 55 procs on RS4.
2. RS3 gives 8 stacks of Stability overall, meaning 8 procs on an instant cast skill.
3. You Are All Weaklings can potentially proc this 20 times.
4. If you have allies, they will fart boons on you as well.
No, Blighter’s Boon is fantastic as it is. Chilling Might could probably stand to get nerfed a bit, though. 1 second per-foe ICD should be sufficient.
You cant use utilities while in RS so you are all weaklings will only give you life force.
Spite/Soulreaping/Reaper Wells, and Lich power necro.
The only place I see them being used is SH, Hammer train if reaper can manage to stay alive, and PVE if new content is not mostly single boss fights. And those are 2 big IFs.
The shouts have the potential to be extremely strong. If anything I’d rather they buff their effects (and there are a few effects that could be buffed), but leave the cast times, than have no cast time and force them to be weak.
That would be fine too. You are all weaklings needs at least twice the might duration.
Suffer needs a higher base condition transfer 2-3 base would be ideal. Chilled to the bone needs a lower cooldown.
(edited by Vizardlorde.8243)
this is why small asura mesmer is master race :p
Great place? Spirit Weapons! Signets!
Tomes. Meditations in PVE! Sword#AA3! Hammer#5! Torch! Shield!Guardian could also be more offensive. More fire, more fury. That might be fixed via the new traits. And elite shout.
Don’t get me wrong. The LB seems to be good and an enhancement of our kitten nal. Especially the projectile speed is the real bonus.
I use bane signet in PVE all the time since my Guild leader is also a guardian. SotA is the only useful SW but its pretty good at what it does. Sword AA3 and ZD are an issue ,but they don’t stop sword from being part of the guardian Meta. Hammer 4-5 are common sense never use hard cc in pve unless you actually want to strip defiance.
Bhawb you are blinded with excitement. Suffer is a weak plague signet until you are surrounded by 3+targets and then its a non functioning plague signet because it has 1.25 second cast time. You are all weaklings is an inferior Blood is power until 4+ targets (for a single cast or 2) and even then you might want to think twice about using it in case you get stunned, not to mention it too can be interrupted.
And no Im not saying reaper’s are bad so far they are my favorite elite spec from the 3 revealed. Judging class mechanic, weapon skills, utilities and traits I would rate the reaper a 3/4 slightly ahead of the Chronomancer with a 2.75/4 and DH with a whopping 2.5/4.
(edited by Vizardlorde.8243)
Why not have it raise skeletons?! or thralls
i don’t know I really don’t like any of the current minions
Because Necromancer in GW2 lore no longer deal with undead. Besides that wouldnt go down well with the Chinese version of the game which is already doing poorly.
The chinese version is going bad because of the limitations imposed on them by the government and the ridiculous prices on their gemstore. A decent chunk of chinese players play in US/EU servers.
Don’t they seem really different? Ranger GS is fast paced, and Reaper seems to focus on being slow and ponderous.
What? What What?
Ranger’s GS is slow as hell.
Auto is slow, especially the 3rd hit evade one.
Maul is slow too, easily dodged.
3 is ok but not dps oriented.
4 The counter-attack is pretty slow in the countering part, the throw blade is slow as hell, and travels slowly too.
5 One of the slowest interrupt skill out there.
Ranger GS is only .25 secs slower than other GS auto attacks on the 3rd skill of th chain ( nothing like the full 2.5 seconds( 1 sec slower than all other AA) from reaper.)
its only feels slow because those skills were balanced around the old Quickness ranger meta with HoT you’ll be able to take said quickness again just by going 6 in BM or using Quickdraw for more Mauls+quicken zypher or a super fast Path of scars>hilt bash>maul combo with quick draw near continous “Path mauls”.
the ranger gs feels clunky because it looks clunky but by no means its slow .
So its a fast weapon…if using quickness…
Thats deep man.
More like GS feels slow because you are comparing it to sword
(edited by Vizardlorde.8243)
The grand master doesnt heal you if you use shouts, it only gives you LF. The heals only ocurr while in RS so that leaves the master trait of hitting chilled targets, might on lifeblast, regen when hit under 90%, fury on death shroud etc. no utility.
A slow, hard hitting class like reaper is basically a god send for us guards who know how to actually block.
I dunno what stream you were watching yesterday, but Guardians are going to get kitten on by a good Reaper. As if our cooldowns weren’t long enough on their own, perma chill and a shout that makes attacks unblockable are going to wreak havoc on a medi guard that already has trouble disengaging without 66% less movement speed.
Eeeexxxceeeppt we aren’t forced to melee them and actually have ways of pinning them down while kiting and also have some decent condi removal?
They’ll have pulls. Also if you look at current traits alongside the new Reaper traits you’ll find that it’s probably NOT going to be so easy to pin them down.
Hey, I finally have to take necros seriously when I fight them instead of just face rolling them for a free kill. Finally a fun fight.
1200 range immobilize will hardcounter power reapers.
About “You are all weaklings”… I assume you can cast it even while stunned and the cast time will go through? Because it has no use as a stunbreak if you can’t.
I could see that shout being useful in some situations because it’s the shortest CD stunbreak we have (all the others are around 50sec+). Might be useful in melee.
“Nothing can save you” can also be useful, since its an AoE boon strip with a short CD.
Stunbreak =/= stability if your casted stunbreak gets interrupted it goes into full cooldown.
You are all weaklings: is a bad version of FGJ mightwise and you dont want to use it on cooldown because it’s also the stun break? .
Suffer: ranges from a bad Smite condition to a Mediocre contemplation of Purity.
Nothing can save you: is actually pretty good except that the cast time is too long.
Rise: is being reworked due to horrors being too weak so cant say much til they show the reworked version.
Chilled to the Bone: The effects are actually quite good but the cooldown and the cast time kill it. 60-90 secs wouldn’t be too bad even if it meant a nerf in the chill duration.
In all honesty? Yes. The only game mode that these utilities will be weak in is sPvP. These skills will be very strong in PvE and in zerg fights — in fact I fully expect Reapers will be mandatory for any guild wanting to do any sort of zerg busting. The only lack-luster skill is the heal, and I only say that tentatively as I’m not 100% sure how epic the reaper shroud will be (and thus, the importance of life-force gain). These skills will be viable in any game mode where you can expect to be out-numbered.
“Rise” + “Death Nova” in a zerg situation? the little jagged horrors will die instantly in the AoE, triggering bursts of damage and poison stacking (which if you take death magic, will also increase your defense).
“You are all weaklings!” is a great source of weakness — its not high uptime on its own but that is aoe defense for your fellow zerglings. The +20 stax of might is gravy for a follow up skill and will allow you to hit a disgusting “Gravedigger” in the middle of the enemy zerg to mow down your foes.
“Suffer” is a good defensive shout with condi transfer and chill application (due to Cold Shoulder trait), though the chill isn’t all that long.
“Nothing can save you” is a great boonstrip that caters to power builds: if you take the Decimate Defenses trait you will get +20% crit chance when removing two boons IN ADDITION to making your attacks unblockable and the +10% dmg you get from the vulnerability. This skill is freaking epic.
The elite “Chilled to the Bone” is going to absolutely smash zergs — 2s stun on 5 targets plus heaps of chill and equally long RESISTANCE boon on self. You will have no problem tossing this out in a zerg even if you don’t have stability because odds are the 2 people that notice YOU and what SKILL you are using will not have the time to process this before the effect goes off, simply due to the chaotic nature of zerg fights and dealing with 10+ enemies at once.
I know numbers might change, but kitten, these skills are strong and give the necro a defined role in two out of three game types :/
Or you could drop 2 wells and a sprectal wall from a safe distance and have better results without putting yourself at risk. And 5 people dont make a zerg, wall has limitless targets and well durations allow them to hit multiple targets if someone dies or moves out of them.
Not really. While specwall is great in a lot of ways, it forces those targets to run away from you and thus your zerg; this will be better if you are a Reaper, as those foes will also be chilled, but it remains a weakness in terms of the skill’s use in an offensive manner.
And well’s are zone denial weapons — no one person is going to stay in a well for any length of time if they are not heavily controlled via stuns/immobo so you can’t expect their full effect to be placed on a particular foe. In this way the shouts are superior — while they may not effect as many total targets (due to enemies entering and leaving the well) they DO totally effect 5 targets: 5 targets lose boons and get 10stax of vuln, 5 targets get condi’s and chill etc and there is VERY little counterplay. Foes effected by your shouts are hampered directly and are easier to kill whereas you may end up dealing more total damage via a well, but that damage is split into small packets amongst a much larger number of enemies and thus is fairly ineffectual (by yourself).
The purpose of the wall is a stability check, those with stability/stunbreaks waste their cooldown those who dont are split from the group and thus weakening the enemy zerg.
Any kind of interrupt will counter necro shouts because they are casted and require you to be in the middle of the fight, and 5boons lost pales in comparison to 25-30 (not sure if initial tick corrupts boons) boons corrupted.
(edited by Vizardlorde.8243)
In all honesty? Yes. The only game mode that these utilities will be weak in is sPvP. These skills will be very strong in PvE and in zerg fights — in fact I fully expect Reapers will be mandatory for any guild wanting to do any sort of zerg busting. The only lack-luster skill is the heal, and I only say that tentatively as I’m not 100% sure how epic the reaper shroud will be (and thus, the importance of life-force gain). These skills will be viable in any game mode where you can expect to be out-numbered.
“Rise” + “Death Nova” in a zerg situation? the little jagged horrors will die instantly in the AoE, triggering bursts of damage and poison stacking (which if you take death magic, will also increase your defense).
“You are all weaklings!” is a great source of weakness — its not high uptime on its own but that is aoe defense for your fellow zerglings. The +20 stax of might is gravy for a follow up skill and will allow you to hit a disgusting “Gravedigger” in the middle of the enemy zerg to mow down your foes.
“Suffer” is a good defensive shout with condi transfer and chill application (due to Cold Shoulder trait), though the chill isn’t all that long.
“Nothing can save you” is a great boonstrip that caters to power builds: if you take the Decimate Defenses trait you will get +20% crit chance when removing two boons IN ADDITION to making your attacks unblockable and the +10% dmg you get from the vulnerability. This skill is freaking epic.
The elite “Chilled to the Bone” is going to absolutely smash zergs — 2s stun on 5 targets plus heaps of chill and equally long RESISTANCE boon on self. You will have no problem tossing this out in a zerg even if you don’t have stability because odds are the 2 people that notice YOU and what SKILL you are using will not have the time to process this before the effect goes off, simply due to the chaotic nature of zerg fights and dealing with 10+ enemies at once.
I know numbers might change, but kitten, these skills are strong and give the necro a defined role in two out of three game types :/
Or you could drop 2 wells and a sprectal wall from a safe distance and have better results without putting yourself at risk. And 5 people dont make a zerg, wall has limitless targets and well durations allow them to hit multiple targets if someone dies or moves out of them.
Nope. Gotta be able to 1vZ. Necro god of death. ultra op. Kills streams. Next we take down all the servers. Rulers of Tyria.
Its been done before in EoTM bridges… Spot zerg near a bridge + remain undetected + spectral wall = profit
I.. well… Hm. That’s something that I wish I had known. You know. Before the satirical statement getting after those who want just huge OP abilities and stuff and don’t care about balance.
In all seriousness, though, I do like the build potential as a Reaper Master, especially if they really do buff/improve the AI of minions
Just saying that some necros are a step ahead of you in the world domination plot :p
The utility type isn’t the biggest problem (though it is in wvw since wells can be used 900 range away from the fight while shouts require you to be in the middle of it), its the way they went about it. While Im a bit disappointed with the “all shouts are offensive and offer little to no group support” part, its unique and not necessairly a bad thing if they tweak the numbers . The problem arises with the cast times+ cooldown+ effectxtarget. If they are going to add a cast time to shouts they should compensate with reduced cooldowns. and while effect that increase depending on the # targets hit seems great on paper in practice they devalue the skill when the max number of targets is not met just look at signet of the locust.
(edited by Vizardlorde.8243)
Yeah, I don’t think “how Tanky is it vs a zerg?” is something we really have to put consideration into, given at that point it’s pretty screwed regardless :P
Nope. Gotta be able to 1vZ. Necro god of death. ultra op. Kills streams. Next we take down all the servers. Rulers of Tyria.
Its been done before in EoTM bridges… Spot zerg near a bridge + remain undetected + spectral wall = profit
you guys are brutal! I loved the shouts.
they seem to have their niche: bigger battles. That’s a fine niche to excel at!Condition manpulation, boon manipulation, a minion one, and plenty of chill… exactly what I’d want from a necro Shout line.
The focus on “per-enemy-hit” feels awesome for shouts. Equip them in group play and be proud.
If I had one request, which might make them overpowered, it’s that I’d like Allies to be somehow factored in. 4 allies and 1 enemy should get a bit better treatment by some of those shouts… whether allies get a boon or simply function as Enemies in regards to beneficial effects.
Otherwise… they seem like nice mobile versions of Wells that fit the profession.
Wells seem like a better choice for large scale battles like WvW. They will have no role in conquest and a very situational role in pve( minions might be better for open world)
Seems nice for open world, GS would make an excellent replacement to axe/focus for my MM build(only use it in open world).
I want to scream out YES!! But not exactly, it completely overshadows the PVE speedrun build necro which is melee ranged direct damage. PVP and WvW in the other hand it’s whole new role. Though it whouldnt surprise me to run into a staff/scepter dagger reaper running dhumfire and terror in pvp.
(edited by Vizardlorde.8243)