I actually think a reaper with death nova species could potentially be really interesting, as much as I hate minions. The traits to reduce damage from poisoned and chilled enemies could mingle nicely. Also the vulnerability application seems obvious.
Yes those traits could make for a decent bunker necro build especially with the protection on deathshroud trait on Death Magic.
Good vuln burst doesn’t compare to what we’re going to get now. We’ll be vuln-stacking machines, and it will be consistent.
Im more excited about the permanent chill. If it reduces pve damage by a significant amount, kinda like a protection that doesn’t overwrite firefields. The vulnerability is just the icing on the cake
Spite curse sr, spite curses elite, spite sr elite.
Anything else is junk.
Also does anyone know if you can use the gs and shouts without speccing the elite? Or if you can spec the elite without using gs or or shouts etc.
The latter is true (reaper w/o gs or shouts)
Necro’s already had good vulnerability burst with well of agony and focus 4, signet of spite. Not to mention the godawful axe.
Stacking can die easily if Anet increases boon share radius to 1200 for all abilities.(extremely unlikely). Berserker on the other hand will not die because dodge, reflect and blocks would have to be removed or significantly nerfed or making all bosses immune to crit making crit a useless stat.(never going to happen)
Or bosses can have cleave abilities that increase the amount of damage done the more targets that are hit. Or bosses could eat boons, doing more damage the more boons consumed (so if multiple players are hit when they aren’t spread, the boss eats boons off of each, turning into a monster). Or bosses could be ranged, snapping off AoE immobilizes then dodging/blinking back out of AoEs that players drop to rain down damage on an area. Or adds could pick a target and rain down exploding arrows, such that when a target is hit, damage is done in an AoE around the target. When multiple targets get hit next to each other, they explode on each other as well, ramping up damage taken.
There are a myriad of ways you can punish “stack and damage the boss” tactics. ANet just needs to get creative with their PvE.
They already use some of those mechanics but block reflect and dodge negate them often enough that a full zerker party can kill them before their survivability is jeopardized.
Stacking can die easily if Anet increases boon share radius to 1200 for all abilities.(extremely unlikely). Berserker on the other hand will not die because dodge, reflect and blocks would have to be removed or significantly nerfed or making all bosses immune to crit making crit a useless stat.(never going to happen)
looks like full arah with the head facing one side.
People keep crying about Reaper when Reaper is going to be part of the new Meta because of this spec. While Guardian got nothing. You all need to calm the hell down.
Oh?
Necromancers finally get projectile defense like Wall of Reflection? Damage blocks and Aegis? Access to vigor – and the ability give it to other people? Stability and the ability to give it to allies? Mobility via teleports on two skills and a utility?
C’mon man, share with us your reasoning why melee damage + chill (Glacial Heart anyone?) is suddenly meta for ANY game mode.
The man cant read, dont bother arguing with him. He disliked LB and traps and is on a smear crusade against DH. check his history if you dont believe me.
They dont need more vuln, they have vuln comming out of their ears with vuln on chill, focus 4, well of suffering, etc. What they need is might/fury/quickness for the group, reliable blast finisher, useful fields (water, fire), or unique group buff like 150 ferocity to all allies within 600 radius or something along those lines.
Not to bash, but I’ll probably move to Revenant after what I saw.
No calls of resource management, interesting utilities (shouts ;/ ), risk-reward cast concept which just doesn’t work in PvP.
Might play it for some lulz or PvE/WvW still, but still Revenant looks far superior and fun with Mallyx conditions and energy management.
Necro has always been the simplest and easiest-to-use light armored class.
Not in PvP.
Well it is the easiest new player pvp light armored class power necro or minion master both rip newbies apart with ease.
I could rip newbies with my off hand only.
When I talk about PvP, it’s about playing on competitive level.
And meta powermancer is just a terrible, lazy design spec which happens to be somehow effective because it has powerful procs. Yet shares all problems with Condition Necromancer, apart from LF generation.
What I meant was if both players are equally bad/new the one playing the power necro or MM will win.
Then you generalized to the point that everyone is new player.
And even above statement is false. Power Ranger vs. Power Necro, Meditation Guardian vs. Power Necro, D/D Celementalist vs. Power Necro… Newbies.
Not to mention MM. Have you seen those recently? I haven’t, even in hotjoins. Minions die to Celestials within couple seconds from passive damage.
Besides, why do you judge profession by some duels of two new, fresh players? Shouldn’t we judge it based on best/at least decent performance?
I guess that you, sir, wanted to come here and stir, but failed to do that.
Im not trying to stir anything and I have played and tested it and every single one of the builds you mentioned lose to a power necro in the hands of an amateur. the reason why necros are so kitten is because anet is balancing around floor and not some medium between the floor and the ceiling.
My guildies (complete pvp amateurs) dread when the GM and I get our necros for this very reason.
We also hold 5 necros vs “meta” team fights ( right build no one knows how to play effectively) and necros win 90% the time.
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If AA is the same as Jory’s it will also chill on the last hit.
This was the advantage with our trait review being so awful in the first place. As a power Necro, there wasn’t a 3rd trait line worth investing in beyond spite and soul reaping.
And from what we know about the new elite specialization so far, spite and soul reaping are the 2 most obvious choices for supporting the reaper line.
people are underrating Wells here with Reaper…
Spite and Soul Reaping is the Well spec.
Il go Spite + Soul Reaping (reason I havent re-rolled) + Elite = Power Build is Given
90% certain this will also be my jam.
It will be everyone’s jam. Any Necro who runs power will likely use the exact same build.
I may have to sacrifice Curses, because they did say Wells are Groundtarget baseline now right?
Correct, they are baseline now.
Wasn’t the new cooldown reduction on wells rolled into Blood magic though? :/
20% cooldown on 2 utilities is not worth the crap that is Bloodmagic.
PVE seems mostly fixed Perma chill is something thats difficult to bring with any max damage oriented build, cleave and AoE seem to be part of the greatsword’s forte, the rest well see tomorrow.
Chill can become the protection of tomorrow :p
The GS attacks may be slow, but a full set of shouts means an instant heal and an instant elite. Instant AOE that you can just dodge roll out of. Plus old DS was super slow and easy to blind/dodge/evade/CC, so it isn’t all bad.
I just hope it is effective and not just a noob killer.
I’m reserving final judgement until tomorrow. But so far so good.
Just as a word of caution, not all shouts are instant cast. Guard has a cast time.
You might want to update the wiki then, because there are no cast times on shouts there. Maybe Ranger shouts have a cast time, but I’m sure that guard and warrior shouts do not.
Meditations are all instant except for the healing skill and the elite. Just a heads up so you are not disappointed tomorrow. There are no instant heal skills in the game with the exception of the mesmer mantra if you ignore the pre cast.
Not to bash, but I’ll probably move to Revenant after what I saw.
No calls of resource management, interesting utilities (shouts ;/ ), risk-reward cast concept which just doesn’t work in PvP.
Might play it for some lulz or PvE/WvW still, but still Revenant looks far superior and fun with Mallyx conditions and energy management.
Necro has always been the simplest and easiest-to-use light armored class.
Not in PvP.
Well it is the easiest new player pvp light armored class power necro or minion master both rip newbies apart with ease.
I could rip newbies with my off hand only.
When I talk about PvP, it’s about playing on competitive level.
And meta powermancer is just a terrible, lazy design spec which happens to be somehow effective because it has powerful procs. Yet shares all problems with Condition Necromancer, apart from LF generation.
What I meant was if both players are equally bad/new the one playing the power necro or MM will win.
it didn’t work that way for the guardian elite traits.
if they don’t use LB and or traps, some of their trait options become useless
Like? You can pick zealots agression or soaring devastation for adept, Bluwark or dulled senses for Master, big game hunter and the hunter’s fortification for grand master without touching traps or bow.
Im pretty sure you will have the option to completely ignore GS and shout traits if DH and CM are any indication.
Not to bash, but I’ll probably move to Revenant after what I saw.
No calls of resource management, interesting utilities (shouts ;/ ), risk-reward cast concept which just doesn’t work in PvP.
Might play it for some lulz or PvE/WvW still, but still Revenant looks far superior and fun with Mallyx conditions and energy management.
Necro has always been the simplest and easiest-to-use light armored class.
Not in PvP.
Well it is the easiest new player pvp light armored class power necro or minion master both rip newbies apart with ease.
Issues with current Necros:
1. No group support
2. slow casting
3. no mobility
4. no power based AOE
5. low DPSIssues Solve by specialization:
1. AOE GS
2. DPS???Well it is a start I guess… I’d rather have the support and mobility instead though…
dark path is becoming a dash and on top of having wurm and spectral walk your in fight mobility is at least better then greatsword warrior.
Um no. Unless I missed the sarcasm this is not even close to true.
ehhh no, big damage on greatsword warrior is all on the mobility/evade skills, either you use the skill to do the damage, or you save it for mobility, if you used it the damage you have very little mobility, if you use it for positioning/evade then you have little damage.
Rush is the damage seriously ??? and with the low cooldown on WW its not even a choice if you have to run you pop it on cooldown and no one but a thief will be able to catch up.
lets compare 10 and 20 second cooldowns vs a skill that requires you to land a slow moving projectile while death shroud on a 15 sec cooldown, wurm and walk both take up utility slots and 45+ sec cooldown so I’m assuming you also count bulls charge. hey while we are at it let’s throw in rage signet, savage leap and charge.
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With quickness becoming a more accessible boon it might not be too terrible (crosses fingers)
Issues with current Necros:
1. No group support
2. slow casting
3. no mobility
4. no power based AOE
5. low DPSIssues Solve by specialization:
1. AOE GS
2. DPS???Well it is a start I guess… I’d rather have the support and mobility instead though…
dark path is becoming a dash and on top of having wurm and spectral walk your in fight mobility is at least better then greatsword warrior.
Um no. Unless I missed the sarcasm this is not even close to true.
Yeah ofc :S don’t see why trooper won’t work
Trooper runes specifically say they remove a condition from each affected ally… And if the Necromancer shouts affect no allies, then it will logically remove no conditions. They may change Trooper runes in anticipation of this elite spec, however, so who knows. I’ll try to ensure it gets asked during the live stream tomorrow.
Its a lazy tooltip it works with fear me and on my mark.
Issues with current Necros:
1. No group support
2. slow casting
3. no mobility
4. no power based AOE
5. low DPSIssues Solve by specialization:
1. AOE GS
2. DPS???Well it is a start I guess… I’d rather have the support and mobility instead though…
Say what now?!
Low dps?! with or without weapons?
Slow casting?! Did you consider other weapons beside staff? or you want a spam-style game, possibly with skills like Ranger’s LB skill 2 without any cd?
No group support?! ofc, if you don’t wanna offer any. Otherwise, wells that clear condi, aoe heals, and the cc’s of the necro are, if I dare say so, desireable group support. You can’t give portals and Icy Bows to all classes, hm?!
No mobility… Sure! Must give them some portals?! some shadowsteps maybe? (not that it’s a properly functioning mechanic anyway) Or precisely what?!
You have speed signet, you have a tp, you have swiftness skills, you have multiple hp pools, summons, fast attacks, strong dps, strong conditions, decent group support. I don’t know what you’re smoking, but I really want some of that stuff!
While I agree with you on most, the support that necros are lacking is offensive support. The ability to blast or provide fire fields, the ability to grant might and/or fury to allies, unique buffs like spotter, empower allies etc. Their damage is on par with everyone else they just dont bring anything to the party that someone else already has without hindering the party ( wells overwritting firefields, 2 target cleave, fear moving stuff etc)
Elusive power was not a dps gain it was compensation for dps lost when you evaded trying to maintain the bonus would result in a loss of dps especially with 50% vigor uptime. 2 handed weapon mastery got split and merged into zealous greatsword, the new staff trait and virtuous mallet.
But I agree that some of our weaker traits should be merged.
I’m glad to see that some people are getting what they want. Perhaps it’s my own fault for still loving the defender type in a mmo without the Trinity system or perhaps it’s the meta’s fault for pushing everything besides dmg zerk out of the game (pve). overall I’ll wait and atleast try it because of having over 2500 hours logged on my main guardian. But, I’m pretty sure I’ll b moving on to a new class as I can’t see myself attacking from afar with a bow and laying traps. I’m working on a ele atm and I have all other classes maxed so I’ll have some options.
On another note, I hope this meta dies and is burned never to return. I tried to play my passive healing, tanky, concentration build with mace/shield and staff in fotm and dungeons and Ppl auto kick me for not being zerk. I think something is seriously wrong when the game has so many armor types and Ppl only use zerk or assassin mix.
Good luck with that the only way for tanky healing guardians will become meta is if they nerfed blocks and removed the dodge mechanic altogether. Which is not going to happen.
any except spite…
That would be broken in wvw. Do you know how often people die refreshing VoJ in a zerg vs zerg? Guards would have permananent stability
If this is about the shield being garbage then i understand, if its about the guardian not being defensive or DH being practically rangers enough then the issues might not be with the profession…
Full zerker will never go away unless they design fights specifically against it like mobs immune to crit, mobs that take reduced melee damage and increased condition damage, etc. On normal encounters berserker will always be the default best stat choice because more damage = dead mob in the least amount of time.
The passive on SoC could easily be something like a 2k heal, which would be a 200hps spread. Exactly when the heal procs is generally less important than the rate it heals. Plus, you get the effect without much effort.
And I don’t really think we need to remove the icd on EM. The reason phalanx strength works on warrior is because of the greatsword trait, which means you won’t really get much use out of other weapons. EM works right out of the box, and just by auto attacking you’re generally getting the effect as often as you really need
The problem with Empowering might its that its effectively 5 stacks of might tops at 100% crit chance and 0 boon duration with 1 hit per second, under more realistc circumstances its closer to 2-3 stacks of might. And dont count on it being group support cause the radius is pretty much melee range.
I dont support removing the cooldown either ( it would make it a better clone of phalanx strength) IMO the best solution would be to increase the might duration to 8-10 secs and increase the radius to 600
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Ok here we go again. Untraited retreat is equivalent to a 16.15% movement speed signet, traited retreat is equivalent to a 20.62% movement speed signet, can we get a 25% signet or trait already? You know what I got a perfect suggestion replace the condition damage on signet of wrath and make it 25% movement speed and call it a day.
For PvP, everything is looking good.
I’m curious about PvE though. Those that have crunched the PvE numbers for far longer than me have their concerns and they look valid to me … will see how that pans out.
Shatter builds are not good for pve but yea the same problem arises if you pick the phantasm traits
So that means basically, that Beast Mastery (which deals with Pets) would always need to be useable.
It’s not just beastmastery though. There are so many traits (both minor and major) in all specializations that do not function or do not function completely without pets. The same goes for all kinds of utility skills, healing skills, elite skills and even some weapon skills.
I bet they will introduce an archer class without pet in one expansion later. Now they added a heavy class, next time or after that a medium.
I wouldn’t count on it. Now they have 3 professions of each armor class. Besides, they have stated that elite specializations are their way of advancing options in the future. In addition the Warrior, Dragonhunter and Thief are already ‘archers without pets’ and the list of professions with bows can possibly grow even larger with future elite specializations.
Prepare for the Icebow Eles that actually use bows :P
There is a projectile denial that can be controlled.
It’s called GreatSword #4.
Why are people so skeptical around so powerful 50% RNG? You can swing the weapon even without hitting anything, after all.
there’s also the unpopular whirling defense that roots you in place
You know… If every class has a passive movement boost, what’s the reason again to not take it? And likewise wouldn’t it be smarter to just drop the boost and make ut baselibe so you don’t have to use 1 utility/trait slot which limits diversity?
The point is: Not everyone should have a movement boost. It’s for classes which need to be evasive or kite-y. Guards don’t need a perma movement boost. They have enough tools already and, as pointed out, you CAN have 100% uptime of swiftness already. You use 1 utility for that and bufffood. That’s a fair downside imo.
Can I have your signet of stone, ill gladly give you Retreat and 100% uptime with food.
That said, this discussion is way off-topic. Back to Tomes again.
I aswell think that the replacement of Tomes is for the better and yes, the currently planed alternatives are way underpowered. Renewed focus does a lot. It’s like with the Rangers Healing Spring when it comes to groupplay – If you have an option like this you either A) make the other choices equally overpowered orYou split the effects to have clear up- abd downsides.
Personally I vote for B. Renewed Focus does too much currently. Compare it with let’s say Signet of Rage or Timewarp. No other elite is so awsome in comparison.
That’s why I vote for a nerf to RF and part of the mechanics being placed on the new Elites. Same goes for Healing spring, I want the condi removal on Troll Urgent and the Regen (+Protection) on Healing as One.
And yes guys, I play and maib Ranger/Guard. I know exactly what is strong on those classes but I’m not a fan of abusing op stuff to win. I want to have decisions wheter I need something against situation A or B, not a all around solution which is also overtuned.
RF is fine as it is. It does give invul and refresh long virtue cd’s. It does not give any passive nor buffs and has a long cd.
And it doesnt allow free damage like the ele earth focus 5 so no need to fix what isnt broken
Ele: You’re invul to give you much needed survivability (remember you’re basically wet paper) and you can cast skills (mostly dashes or similar becazse let’s face it you don’t need your invul if there’s no enemy in your face (.
Guard: You’re invul but you still have high toughness to survive more hits. You refresh your virtues (That’s +1 strong heal, burn application and block from aegis. And that’S WITHOUT trait bonuses like might, stability, condi cleanse, protect etc.).
You’re basically comparing apples and oranges. Why do people not use Tomes most of the time? Because RF does so many valuable things and is statistically better than the other choices.
That’s a fact. Admit it and move on, I won’t discuss with you on that matter because I can clearly see how much you like RF – Which is normal, broken things are always the most fun. But sometimes that gives you very little counterplay/downsides – This shouldn’t happen and leads to a stale game.I made my point above. No need to further derail this thread with “But but”s.
wet paper eles are staff fire eles any ele traited water or earth is sturdier than any guardian warrrior or necro. And the reason why RF> tomes is not because RF is broken, its because tomes are. The reason why we deal lower direct damage than warriors is because VoJ compensates our damage with burning, the reason why we have less health than a warrior is because VoR and VoC are passively incresing our survivability. When you use tome all of that goes to kitten. No virtue passive or active, no shelter block, no utilities to rely on, and in the case of wrath no personal gain at all(courage at least boosts your survivability in exchange for almost nonexistent damage)
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DH give the chance to make new condi builds, a ranged weapon and new ways to use Virtues.
Chrono give more support and survavibility by wells, shield and F5, and can obtain a lot of clone respown or quickness on shatter.They both obtain great things, but there’s only 1 reason why I think that Chrono will be more good like a class: Chronomancer traits can be combined with every other clone and shatter skills, that is it’s mechanic and can obtain a large amount of slow and quickness with a unique traitline that gran exclusive things but that can be shared with it’s all traits and can work with every other traitlines.
Dragonhunter can’t mix well with other traits and builds because there’s a large amount of traits that depend on the New Weapon and the Reworked Virtues.If we look at the minor traits if Chrono we can see that there’s nothing that can’t be used and useful in all the builds you can do. in DH we have a minor trait that work only on range, that make it bad for those who play un melee or use staff. Compared to a +25% speed and -25% crip/imm/chill totaly Passive and Free, we can see that there’s already something wrong. And if we spend all the traitline to power up our Virtues we lost our time because we already have a entire traitline to power up our Virtues, a line that will be complitely abandoned after tha release of HoT because everyone want the new redesigned and better mechanic instead of a old one.
All the Chronomancer traits work with all the pre-existent builds and traits but the Dragonhunter traits work Only with the New Virtues and LB and traps, making one of our traitlines “old” and “bad” to chose.
The part about virtues is not entirely true, all the virtue traits affect the new skills. What we dont know is if they’ll rework the traits to give them a fixed 1200 radius or if the range will be equivalent to the new abilities which will make them selfish instead of supportive.
1- Make the AA vary depending on your Equiped weapon LB would be the default for staff and have an improved version of each weapon’s AA replace it for dagger axe and scepter.
2- Allow signets and life steal to affect us in Deathshroud and enable minion sequence skills and Wells in DS, make spectrals have different effects in deathshrould making spectral walk a ground targeted teleport, Spectral armor 2 seconds of immunity, spectral wall a circle like ring of warding, and spectral grasp a multitarget pull centered on the necro (think binding blades or into the void).
3- cut LF in half and eliminate the passive drain
4- enable healing skills in DS at 50% efficiency.
I’m quite sad that this is getting changed… I liked my instant cast well :/
You can set the settings to 1 press AoEs you just hold the key to aim and release it to launch the spell no need to click or press the key twice. Or you could have it pop wherever your cursor is but I find this more annoying since mistakes are easier.
Comparing wells to traps is ignoring the giant elephant in the room. Traps have a deploying time and an arming time + longer cooldowns than wells. Traps are the inferior skill.
.5 second arming time+ .5 second deployment time < 3 second ticks before the desired effect.
You know… If every class has a passive movement boost, what’s the reason again to not take it? And likewise wouldn’t it be smarter to just drop the boost and make ut baselibe so you don’t have to use 1 utility/trait slot which limits diversity?
The point is: Not everyone should have a movement boost. It’s for classes which need to be evasive or kite-y. Guards don’t need a perma movement boost. They have enough tools already and, as pointed out, you CAN have 100% uptime of swiftness already. You use 1 utility for that and bufffood. That’s a fair downside imo.
Can I have your signet of stone, ill gladly give you Retreat and 100% uptime with food.
That said, this discussion is way off-topic. Back to Tomes again.
I aswell think that the replacement of Tomes is for the better and yes, the currently planed alternatives are way underpowered. Renewed focus does a lot. It’s like with the Rangers Healing Spring when it comes to groupplay – If you have an option like this you either A) make the other choices equally overpowered orYou split the effects to have clear up- abd downsides.
Personally I vote for B. Renewed Focus does too much currently. Compare it with let’s say Signet of Rage or Timewarp. No other elite is so awsome in comparison.
That’s why I vote for a nerf to RF and part of the mechanics being placed on the new Elites. Same goes for Healing spring, I want the condi removal on Troll Urgent and the Regen (+Protection) on Healing as One.
And yes guys, I play and maib Ranger/Guard. I know exactly what is strong on those classes but I’m not a fan of abusing op stuff to win. I want to have decisions wheter I need something against situation A or B, not a all around solution which is also overtuned.
RF is fine as it is. It does give invul and refresh long virtue cd’s. It does not give any passive nor buffs and has a long cd.
And it doesnt allow free damage like the ele earth focus 5 so no need to fix what isnt broken
We gained more skills 5 opposed to 3(shield + shatter). Their wells share the same issues with our traps (OP vs nonmoving target otherwise debateable, bad trait, wind up before real damage etc). DH gave us the answer to several problems that the guardian was facing (lack of proper ranged weapon, soft cc, access to bleed). CM solved the mesmer’s movement speed and CC issues, but the PVE issues like low personal dps, damage modifiers not affecting phantasms, lack of mainhand options are still there.
Dont believe the hype, You will be sorely disappointed. Just wait and if the core problems are still not address as one poster said its just sprinkles of flowers on poop. I am getting tired being in the not wanted for dungeon/fractal run. PvP has been meh and WvW we shine but only for wells…
If we lower our expectations enough we’ll never be disappointed :p
Save the excitement for friday
The medi hammer build with 6 in virtues bring’s as much support as the Healway build minus the healing and the traited consecrations but it brings superior dmg instead which sometimes it’s more useful than the healing. I always find it funny when guardians claim that Shout AH 0.1.6.6.1 it’s a good support build, when in fact you are just a punching bag that spams shouts to proc PoV. Basically a leech. So funny.
hey thats our bunker build that drastically dropped in popularity cause it cant kill crap unlike cele ele and cele engi.
Rng would be 5% chance on hit to knock back. a 100% chance with a cooldown and a condition is not RNG.
About the traits of the necromancer specializzation, after ANet reveal the trait of the dragonhunter (guardian spec) they do the same for the Mesmer with a post in the forum where they describe the traits of the mesmer. OP traits, really OP traits.
I hope that they do Op traits also for us!!We don’t need OP traits we have Deathshroud.
And that boys and girls is how the necromancer riots of 2015 started :p
The anomaly, flux matrix… actually I’m biased take your pick
http://dulfy.net/2013/02/06/gw2-focus-skins-gallery/#22
Rangers should start carrying offhand axes to reflect dragon hunter arrows :S
Its as good a time as any to see if is time for me to fully quit the game or not.
They’ll name the spec Bob in remembrance of you :p