Guild Wars 2

I dont like your ideas. But I have a solution for you.

superior sigil of strength. It’s currently very under valued but from my testing you can maintain 25 stacks of might with this sigil and sigil of battle with signet of rage and for great justice. Without a great sword.

Sigil of strength is very good. A lot of people have not picked up on how good it is yet.

DWA I had my own thread about this. I pretty much figured out that it was good on paper and good on test golems, but in practice outside of theoretcal scenarios it didn’t live up to the same potential it showed in tests and on paper.

So I think its slightly over valued with a high point investment makes it not really much better if better at all over less expensive traits.

Maces issue is the slow AA and the long CD of tremor.

hendo.1940:

You have permanent fury uptime with FGJ + SoR …. so you don’t need fury duration.

This is false. It is only true when you have signet mastery and lung capacity. Or signet mastery and boon duration from traits. Trust me I checked it.

With just signet mastery and without traited Shouts you will experience a 3 second fury down time. This is assuming you have no points into tactics trait line and have zero boon duration. This is also assuming you are playing perfect and did and pressed these skills asap when they were off cd.

And without signet mastery or traited shouts you will have a bout a 5 second downtime + another aditional 1 second downtime.

So not permanent. But of course its close enough to say that you don’t need 20% fury duration. But of course a 20% fury duration will with out a doubt make it perm even if you make mistakes. Which surely happens. Which grantees a warrior always gets 5% Damage from these runes. 100% of the time.

Superior Rune of the Krait. Condition builds
This rune has good synergy with Warrior condition builds. And is very cheap.

Superior Rune of Rage PVE
This rune is not as good as strength or scholar but after taking a 2nd look at it its at least 3rd in line for best DPS for a warrior. Mainly its 5% damage while under effects of fury and with 20% fury duration you should pretty much always have it. Looks like it also adds about as much crit damage as runes can possibly add now.

So if you can’t afford str or scholar I’d have a 2nd look at this rune if you are on a budget and just need something.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Warlord.9074:

Ya I see what your saying. Welp maybe if CI wasn’t our only “viable” option. I say specifically viable. Since there are other options but they are not viable.

That really is the core issue. I thnk if mending cooldown was reduced to like 15 seconds that could open up builds without CI. I doubt thats going to happen.

We almost have to take 15 in defense no matter what since adrenal healing is a big part of our sustain. I guess thats the other part of the core issue is your forced to pump points in defensive tree if you want to be viable. Which leaves not enough points left over to have build diversity. Or there are just simply clearly better traits than others, and many over valued traits that cost a lot but are basically worthless.

You’re right about Mending, if it was worth using you could take less in Defense and take Restorative Strength in Power and have basically a full heal, I’ll add it to the list.

The other thing we could hope for is if healing signet was given a better active it could be like the ele heal that removes conditions when it pulses when u activate it. I doubt that will happen too. I mean give healing sig an etheral renewal active with a slight passive nerf or something.

Ya I see what your saying. Welp maybe if CI wasn’t our only “viable” option. I say specifically viable. Since there are other options but they are not viable.

That really is the core issue. I thnk if mending cooldown was reduced to like 15 seconds that could open up builds without CI. I doubt thats going to happen.

We almost have to take 15 in defense no matter what since adrenal healing is a big part of our sustain. I guess thats the other part of the core issue is your forced to pump points in defensive tree if you want to be viable. Which leaves not enough points left over to have build diversity. Or there are just simply clearly better traits than others, and many over valued traits that cost a lot but are basically worthless.

Only new build those new traits made was might sharing. Axe PVE builds already existed and the 10% aspd bonus while great on paper and on test golems, doesn’t live up to the same potential in real world fights.

Don’t worry almost nobody that says things like this has any idea what they are talking about. I also promise the warriors that say they have 3k armor don’t.

Answer is thick skin.

Thick skin is an extremely deceptive minor trait that makes your armor look like its 100 more than what it really is. Its also very useless.

Dolyack Signet is an extremely deceptive signet that makes your amor look like is 180 more than what it really is. Once you used it its also very useless.

If you have 2800 armor base line without any of these traits or sigents you are fine. Somewhere someplace someone said that 2800 Armor roughly translates into 33% damage reduction.

If someone is using this trait and that signet and they say they have 3k armor they dont.

But if you have 2800 armor and you are using any of this stuff you don’t have 2800 armor.

Aomine.5012:

I have every single classes lv80 for more than a year, yet I still use warrior for most of the dungeons and hard contents because it’s just too helpful to the team. (Perma 25 stack might, banners, empower ally, fgj, etc)

Warhorn is also really helpful in WVW, PVE outdoor, and even skipping mobs in Dgn.

Your “issue” is only for pvp, yet the top team of tournament still use 2 Warriors, showing it’s too OP before.

News flash GW2 isn’t balanced around PVE its balanced around PVP. And PVP balance is the only thing ANET cares about. PVE is a face roll no one cares.

Also its not my issue. Its the OPs issue I have my own thread that lists all my issues. And yes they are mostly PVP related since again PVE is a face roll.

woot I am sooooooo good i can kill AI yeah I have so much players skill and ability for killing AI. Honestly no.

Ya I forgot about that yah do what Bogmonto said to get your exotics just run COF like he said. But before you do that get a full set of yellow gear honestly you atleaset need something to go in the dungeon with.

Yah well let them flame. There are a bunch of over privileged PVE noobs that troll the forums that don’t know half of what they think they know.

Well, since you are a new player. I guess you can get by with cheap lvl 80 yellows until you get enough to afford exotics. I have like 5000 badges of Honor from wvw and I can’t remeber the last time I ever bough gear off the TP. But yeah thats what I would do if I were you.

When I started the game most people just ran around in Greens and yellows and blues lol no body back then had exotics.

We ran dungeons way before they were rebalanced in broken gear and white items and stuff. Good old days. Noobs these days have no clue how to play anymore.

How much gold do you have? What do you want a build for PVE?

Hammers are worst now than they were before. They already nerfed the trait. And frankly speaking hammers damage is weak without that trait. And with the trait hammers damage is only situationaly very strong. There are a lot of people that didn’t read the tool tip correctly. Its only a damage increase when the foe is disabled. I know people that thought that it was 20 or 25% before damage and that isnt the case. The Hammers cleave is always been very decent however, But your not going to win any fights just by pressing 1. And burst skill of hammers is way weaker than it was before for multiple reasons.

Skull cracker is the best GS duel build. GS/LB is also very good but it isn’t strictly for dueling.

Ignore the trolls. OP is right. I have noticed this also anytime anyone brings up any thing negative about warrior there are a bunch of trolls around here that disregard any points that are contrary.

I only want to adress the OPs points. Warrior have a lot of other issues besides the ones that the OP mentioned. Lets not start adding things like traits that work fine to try to argue the OP and ignore what they are saying.

Warhorns I don’t think they are underrated, I just think that weakness is not as useful as blocking. De buffing someones attack damage vs blocking their attack damage.. I think its pretty clear that blocking is better. Swiftness is just that it is what it is. We can make the argument that with all of warriors mobility, that the swiftness is not necessary for warriors with ultra mobile builds.

I think the main complain with warhorns Is for them to be really decent they require a 20 point investment into a traitline that is not very helpful for a warrior. Because of 2 things basically warrior doesn’t need the vitality and the minor traits in that traitline are not very useful. That sort of adds to the points that I made earlyer that warhorns are underwhelming then when you add that you need to waste 20 points basically to make them useful it sort of makes them worst in my eyes.

Off hand mace is not too bad. my only complaint about it is I feel like the travel time of the mace knockdown is kinda too slow. And the cool down of the mace knock down seems to be too long compared to the hammer knock down cool down. The AA chain on mace seems too slow.

The endurace nerf wasn’t needed, since I didn’t see it as too strong 15% is not very helpful considering what you have to do to obtain it. which is build adrenaline use a burst skill which sounds simple enough but building adrenaline and landing a skill isnt always so simple, So it makes it a lot of work with a low reward. The reward doesn’t seem to justify the work.

Berserkers stance thing I can’t agree on.

Its intended to be condition immunity for real reasons that having more HP regen wouldn’t cure.

The longer knockdowns I can’t agree on. Combining longer knockdowns with hammer and mace CC as well as the various immobilizes would be over the top.

I do think that the current trait physical training should be moved to adept tier with no changes however.

Burst precision should be buffed or changed so that it functions similar to the sigil of intelligence cuz right now its weaker. And I still think that its too steep of an investment when something better or equal can be had with zero investment. So I agree its basically worthless.

Brawlers recovery seems to be too situational. But I think it could have use in a warrior commander build where your often the 1st person to get hit or stunned. It seems a little weak to me for how situational it is though.

DWA seems like a good idea and On paper and in theoretical tests it appears to have a 9% DPS increase. In real world I think that this trait doesn’t live up to the same potential it has on paper. Trait should be buffed slightly. So it could be as good as it is on paper but doubtfully will ever have real use outside of PVE.

Mace seems fine after the sigil or parilization buff I think that the AA Chain is too slow though. AA chain needs a speed buff.

Healing signet doesn’t need nerfed anymore in SPVP. I fell like in wvw due to the critical damage nerf it feels slightly better however than before. I think somthing should be done to give it a reason to use the active part of the skill. However I dont think by nerfing it anymore just to give it a stronger active would solve a lot of problems all that would do is make healing sig the defacto heal skill and leave all other healing skills with zero reasons to use them.

Sartharina.3542:

Necromancer and warriors require the least skill to play decently, but fall behind when people learn how to actually use the other classes, and then require more skill to get back up onto the same level. Yes, it is the most newbie-friendly class, but that’s not a bad thing. They suck again once everyone stops being newbies without serious investment in learning how to play them.

I agree with everything this person says here.

Thier survival mechanic is just to have high armor and HP. Its pretty simple don’t try to understand it.

Emagine a thief with no steath, a gurdian with no protection or virtues, a necro with no DS, a ranger with no pets, and Mesmer with no clones, steath etc.

You get a warrior that just has its body + its various stances.

ya I looked at your build. Its just tanky thats all. Theres no way hes killing anyone with that build. And He can get killed just as easy as what he is already running.

wads.5730:

theres no such thing as a dps build with good survivability when you’re talking about small man fights. you can go a full zerk stance build but you will get kitten on by condis in roaming fights, so unless someone in his group is running a shout build for the condi cleanse then it wont work.

and i dont know if you know this, but shout builds were actually buffed repeatedly, both in the fact that condi’s are an even bigger problem now, and the amount of healing were buffed considerably as wel . yes you wont be getting 15k 100b with a shout build, but you provide much more utility via cc and group heal/cleanse. considering the OP’s group consists of mostly power builds, a shout war would be a good addition.

the build you posted is a good dueling /solo roaming build. which the OP stated that he is not intersted in.

Ya but OP is not asking for a Condi shout build or is he. And there is a big difference between a power and conditions. Power requires 3 stats. Conditions requires arguably 1 stat. That has nothing to do with shouts and has everything to do with that in a condition build you dont have to build for power precision and critical damage. So you can build for toughness and vitality and still do decent damage with conditions.

None of the terrible shout builds that were suggested to OP are condition based so your entire argument is pointless. And power based shout builds are flat out terrible for DPS for the previous reasons I mentioned and the ones that were sugested were also hammer ones. So what I did say is true that power based hammer shout builds have seen repeated nerfs.

Also if you think that having another warrior in his group for condi cleansing running shouts is superior to having a guardian or an elementalist that can heal the group your flat out wrong about that too,

Look dont try to troll me man I played this game for a long time and I know what I am talking about. Simply we have no idea what his group composure is. And Id bet landing a 4 second Stun on anyone with a small group to help DPS that player down will kill anyone in a blink of an eye.

I can’t believe the amount of terrible builds being suggested to the OP by others who say his build is either overkill or not that good.

Tanky DPS sort of makes me shake my head. Shout builds that claim to be DPS builds and all the like. Its like hey lets give OP a shout build which is the oldest build warrior have. A build that has been nerfed repeatedly by ANET over the past 2 years by moving things like zerkers power and Heightened focous to grandmaster traits which Shout builds originally used. NErfing of empowered from 2% per boon to 1%. Etc. Nerfing of leg specialist. Etc etc.

Lastly I don’t understand how a hammer is supposed to be a DPS weapon. Its pretty OK for being a control weapon but just like shout builds it has too been nerfed repeatedly. Hammer mastery, Hammers burst skill, hammer shock when used with leg specialist. The only time I have ever seen hammers be Huge DPS burst weapons are in full Zerk builds.

This guy basically says hey I want a DPS build that has good surviability.

So here I present a tanky version of Skullcracker. If you die to a thief with this build you are just bad. Also I grantee this build is more tanky than a shout build if used properly.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNApeRjMdUFaXIOewJaAlgCbofBnn5CIA0lFA-TFDCABiqWxwHBAcUVZMlgHpMgKlGA8AA0SJWHHCgS0HcxJAIn9HIFwSKjA-w

PVE noobs don’t swap weapons. If you are a noob and don’t swap weapons no need for faster swaping.

In reality there is nothing hardcore about using a computer. Kids these days.

Welp the blind on swap is not needed. So its basically useless. There are other ways to remove blind on swap with sigils.

The Crit on burst is not needed since we can already crit 3 times with intelegence. So pretty useless.

The Might sharing is pretty good.

The 10% aspd while duel wielding is underpowered. Seemed like they were trying to give warriors aspd passives like in other games but falls short of that in comparison.

Try it before you laugh. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJEQRBMhl21ITHdeWFiZIkiG4KoQf4DQAoKGSPCrQJA-TFCDwAIV+Zw8nI9D62fIm6POUCC4pAI4EAQKAmUGB-w

You know I may give your build a shot just becasue its different. The 1st build that I’ve seen using traited stances for vigor in a long time. I may swap out the battle sigl for the other sigil of conditional removal. I forget what its called so I have generosity on one and the other on the other one. Purity.

What if Asura warriors use lasers.

Combos that work to some extent with limited amounts of success.

GS/Rifle – Mobile Sniper.

GS/Axe-Shield 1v1 Mobility

GS/Mace-Shield 1vX Mobility

GS/Sword-Warhorn Ultra Mobility Best In class.

GS/Sword-Shield 1vX Defensive Mobility type.

Hammer/Sword-Warhorn or Sword-Shield Zerging Melee Train Centric

Sword/Sword/Shield-Long Bow Condi 1vX Roaming

Hammer/GS – Mobile Zerger

Rifle-Sword/Warhorn Run N Gun Back liner Zerg type

LongBow- Sword/Sword/Shield Power based 1vX

ya, I played warrior so long I just make up names for stuff lol. Like GS cool down reduce. I call it that instead of forceful GS sometimes since I have a bad memory.

I think the pure GS that uses 10 in tactics is based on you receiving a lot of boons from other party members to boost your damage. If your not getting alot of boons besides your own its not neraly that much of a DPS increase. If that isn’t the case than the 30/25/0/0/15 is the better build for pugs.

If its for solo than 30/25/0/0/15 use that also for pugs and fractals.

Slow weapon swapping skills it for me. But I like it because its different.

I was hoping to see a slotted signet of str. For somereason I was thinking of unblockable CCs and evas idk why.

Yes next patch.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Since when were we ever talking about PvP?

It’s a good trait and that’s pretty much the end of it. I’m sorry that your pretend math doesn’t make it look as good as real math does, but maybe since you’re just making kitten up anyway, you can make kitten up in a way that makes it look better? That way you can continue to pretend you’re right and the rest of us can use the traits that actually work.

Uh…You quoted a person saying that if it was buffed to 15% who was making a comment referencing how nonviable it is in PVP and you said that would be OP. Then I pretty much told you that its not viable in PVP even if it was buffed then the person below you pretty much mirrored that and said why would we take it over last chance. Which last chance is superior to this trait in PVP in every way and I have yet to see a Viable PVP build that uses last chance.

How would buffing it to 15% be overpowered in PVE when warriors with this trait currently are getting out DPSed by pure Great swords. ANd I would wager that buffing it to 15% still would not close that gap. Id also bet that a Pure GS warrior isn’t even close to the highest DPS member of a party currently. So I pretty much still dont understand how you think this skill is as good as it is when we have a mountain of evidence that isn’t just coming from me but multiple sources that it simply isn’t that great and doesn’t do at all what it does on paper.

While absolutely not one single person has been as critical about it as me and not one single person has been trolled about being against it as me. There reason to believe that if I was wrong about it everyone would be using it as a meta build and they are not.

Wethospu.6437:

Warlord.9074:

—
If we took the 30 seconds..
—

Cherry-picking. Why not 29 s, 31 s or 29.431152 s?

So when you make an equation that simple say you do 9% damage that is a very rough estimate based on averages not on actual damage.

DPS, not damage.

—
In this case Your 9% damage is based on time savings. Or roughly you save .09 seconds per attack.
—

You save 0.09 seconds PER second, not PER attack.

—
So in this scenario DWA did in fact not do 9% more damage it did in fact do nothing for you.
—

Correct, but that’s just one situation. DWA gives up to Infinite % more damage.

And Wethospu if thats really your name. When you see me cherry picking and you think that I am doing it for my benefit thats a misconception of yours. My cherry picking is to help your argument which quite frankly is a lot weaker if I were to pick 29 or 31. Specific time frames I cherry pick are stricktly based on mechanics of the skill where times savings eqaute into extra hits. If you want me to pick time frames that represent no extra hits that I would be happy to. It will only hurt your case.

Wethospu.6437:

You save 0.09 seconds PER second, not PER attack.

In that case it makes it even worst like I know you love this skill dude. But thats not really how it works. It takes the channel time of which ever skill that is getting casted and reduces it. And I am sure like you think its the most over powered best skill in the game right now. I also know that you use it despite GS being better because your just that kinda fan boy. But your really not helping your case at all.

Believe me I hate being mean to you and other people but I kinda feel like even if I was nice your heads would still be so far up your behinds that you still think this skill is great. So i Decide to be mean at least that feels better and atleast its honest rather than lieing to myself that I actually like people I don’t even know that disagree with me and who are wrong.

We have Guanglai making PVP related comments about it, that I think no one that seriously PVPs believes because he thinks its so good that buffing it would even dethrone hambow.

I know that its hard to admit this skill isnt really even worth mentioning outside a vacume chamber centered around paper calculations and test centered around attacking golems. And we so much wanted it to be the next coming of a prhophet to save mankind. But it just simply isn’t the trait is garbage and thats just the way it is. Take it or leave it. will be happy when this thread dies just so I can stop replying to stuff like this.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Because it’d be ridiculously OP if that were the case.

welp. If you knew anything about PVP which I think you don’t haha. Considering almost everything you have to say about anything GW2 related has to do with PVE. I’d suspect that you don’t really undestand PVP enough to know that this trait currently has no use in Competitive levels of PVP. I mean if you really think people are switching from Hambow to this even if it was buffed I think you fell out of your rocker.

ANd to the person above me try playing warrior without cleasin IRE and your going to find out really quick its not viable. Which is pretty much it, as a warrior your not only forced to put at least 20 in defense but your really forced to put at the very least of 15 into discipline. And warriors are not going to choose this trait over grandmaster discapline or grandmaster defense traits because it just really is either not anywhere close to being as useful or simply isn’t at all viable.

Last thing I will add to this thread before it dies since I have had a little while to think about it. Then it can disappear.

This trait was extremely difficult to calculate its effect on an axe chain. Even though Dub was able to recreate my math, his math is still not totally correct.

Almost every hit of the axe chain does a different amount of damage. The majority of the damage is located at the end of the axe chain. Most of the paper calculations assume that all hits of the axe chain do equal amounts of damage.

If we took the 30 seconds scenario where DWA causes 3 extra hits to land on a target golem based on my calculations we know exactly which of those hit are.
They are chop and both double chops. The point of pointing that out is out of the 6 hits that the axe chain does those 3 hits are the absolute weakest part.

So when you make an equation that simple say you do 9% damage that is a very rough estimate based on averages not on actual damage.

The last point that I sort of made or tried to make is when we just say that DWA does 9% more damage its essentially only on paper. Or a test that involves attacking a golem for X amout of time.

Normally 9% damage would mean you hit a target 9% harder. That eqates into a damage number that is 9% larger. In this case Your 9% damage is based on time savings. Or roughly you save .09 seconds per attack. But dont in all actuality do 9% more damage unless you have accumulated enough time saving by landing enough Axe chains. That it outweighs any mistakes that you do. That means dodging, going down or having to stop attacking.

To make it simple. One axe chaing without DWA example will do 4000 Damage. One axe chain with DWA will do 4000 Damage .09s faster. And in the case that you need to dodge or stop attacking after that AXE chain you have still done 4000 Damage either way and any amount of time savings that may of occurred .09 is lost.

So in this scenario DWA did in fact not do 9% more damage it did in fact do nothing for you.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

A flat increase won’t scale either lol.

You’re a funny guy Warlord.

Really I didn’t know that sigil of force for example didn’t scale with my power? If sigil of force isn’t a flat increase than I guess I said the wrong thing.

But considering I said a 10% I don’t know how you could confuse that with a flat increase if you yourself knew what you were talking about either since I think I clearly said that and since I was refering to traits like attack of opportunity I think you just don’t like really have good reading comprehension or something anyways.

But I think what it boils down to is you dont really add anything of value to this entire thread except trolling. And the only person that helped verify anything was DUB.

Sure other people may have had pretty decent estimates but no one had got it as accurately as we did.

Where every other mathematical estimate I could find showed times savings much larger than what they really were.

My onion that we figured everything out as close down to what we did is pretty stellar troll all you want cant change that.

Ralzer.1526:

1, Should warrior wear berserker set or other set when solo roaming in wvw and which rune are better ?
2, Main weapon solo roaming gs/axe shield have any recommendation for weapon sigils ?
3, Food recommendation ?
4, Traits recommend.

and good luck guys… =D

More complicated question than a simple answer can give you.

If you want to kill anyone that is halfway good you need to be able to DPS them down and survive.

My advice to you if you don’t know how to play a warrior in PVP or WvW where you are roaming. Is to start off with more defensive gear like Power Toughness and vitality and as you learn how to play a warrior and get better as a player start shedding those pieces and replace them with more offensive pieces. Think of it as training wheels. Until you figure out how much defense you are able to sacrifice for damage based on your ability to play.

Na this trait is strictly PVE. Its position in the Tree, and the tree that its in makes it too deep to do anything thing for PVP. Now that we understand the full mechanics of the trait, I can say its fair to say that its not very useful in PVP even if it was in master tier.

Basically because with direct damage I can hit really hard and make mistakes, and still have done DPS based on hitting harder.

If I hit for 1100damage make a mistake I still hit for 1100 Damage.

With this miniscule speed increase Ill hit for 1000 .1s faster make a mistake and still have only hit for 1000 and lost 1.0s of time.

Ty for the tests btw guys it was nice to have some help testing this. It kinda makes me shake my head though I don’t think anyone would say that a ASPD bonus that can give a 9% DPS increase on paper. Would have been better than just flat out giving us a 10% Direct Damage increase like other traits do.

If I had the choice between DWA as it is now. And another trait that gave an additional flat 10% dmg increase I wouldn’t blink and would take the flat increase.

A flat increase will scale. This trait wont scale its fixed and requires you to play perfectly to get the most mileage out of it.

Gyler.8150:

Yes you may need to dodge and all that, but you know what helps get your auto-attack chain to finish before anything like that can occur?

Take a wild guess.

It’s pretty subjective to say the least and I’d wager it differs on a case by case scenario.

I’d like to see this trait slightly buffed. Although I have been told that it would be overpowered to buff it slightly, I can’t see it in its current state as strong as some of our other grandmaster traits.

Either buffed or moved to master tier arms. At that point I think it could give Pure GS a run for its money.

In its current position on the tree its not very viable for PVP. If it was moved to master it could find some use, but otherwise leaving it in its current position and buffing it would only effect PVE balance and I am not sure anyone at anet really cares about that since its pretty much a face roll.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Does this mean that things that occur in less than a second in the Warlordverse haven’t actually happened at all?

EDIT: Less than a glass I mean.

In the warlordverse, having to dodge, going down, getting CCed by mobs, having to back out of a fight to heal, messing up your rotations, taking a sip of water from a glass. All acount for a loss of time savings. So in the warlordverse where none of things happen you are absolutely correct in your conclusions.

hendo.1940:

And that changes… what?
@Gyler, thanks for that gem.

When you find a perfect world to live in come back and talk to me. lol

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I’d say a tenth of a second every second adds up to a lot since there’s a lot of seconds out there.

I guess the real question here though is how many seconds fit in a glass. Once we know that we can start making videos of glasses filling up to calculate the DPS > DPG conversion ratio.

If you say so… except a 1/10 of a second is not a second and you need 10 of those until you reach 1 second. Which would be singular and not plural.

Which would take you between 20 and 30 seconds before you reached a time savings on 1 second. Which would depend on a lot of things to favorably happen for you.

Which is essentially my entire argument that I will never concede.

anabasis.7346:

According to your comment quoted below, both glasses should be filled with the same amount of water if 0<t<10.
Even thought this is false because the first glass would be filled with 18oz of water in 10s (1.8oz per second), and the second glass would be filled with 17oz (1,7 ounces per second).

Carrying on with your logic, it tells us that Only if 10<t<(infinite), the 54oz glass would start to fill quicker than the 51oz glass which equates to the extra hits that you are talking about.

Warlord.9074:

Way this trait works in practice to be a DPS increase in under the circumstances that that Attack speed eventually equates into extra hits in a set time period. It doesn’t start to give you extra hits until about 10s into Auto attacking. Which basically means if you want an extra hit in the same time it would take you to DPS without a trait you have to not stop AA for longer than 10s. At which case if you can AA for 30s uninterrupted you will have 3 extra hits. About an extra hit every 10s with axes.
.

It does make a big difference in time savings how fast you can DPS something down. Which when we are talking about speed increase in attacking if your attacks are shortened than you can land more attacks in less time equating into more DPS.

When the differences are as small as .1s per attack your DPS increase is certainly there without a doubt. No body is saying it doesn’t exist.

The average time it takes for a complete human blink is about 300 to
400 milliseconds or 3/10ths to 4/10ths of a second. Of course this is an
average only and can differ from person to person. Also, there are other
factors that can affect blink speed, like fatigue, medications,
diseases, and injury to the eye area. Most factors decrease or slow the
blink rate.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1998-11/911697403.Me.r.html

Good luck! you pretty much be the judge of how important that is to you.

Tree.3916:

Maybe you can’t distinguish 17oz vs 18oz, but I can.

It’s not that I can’kittens just that I don’t bother to. In real life and in game. And in game who is to say if it is only 1oz that you made the decisive difference in a party of 5 people some of which are doing a lot more damage than you. Lots of damage is flying around and anything goes. Its small enough that I can’t support the claim that even though its there it absolutely makes a 100% difference.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

So we’re measuring damage in glasses now.

That’s basically what I got out of that.

You either see the glass half full or half empty but doesn’t change the fact that it is half.

That is the difference of opinion here. I see the glass half empty until the conditions are met. Others are seeing the glass half full regardless if the conditions are met or not. Which in my opinion is overly enthusiastic.

Tree.3916:

You have a two empty glasses. You begin filling them at the same time. At the end of 30 seconds one glass has 54oz, other has 51oz. which glass filled with more water per second? And how much was the difference in rate? Assuming the glasses held 54 ounces, which one would fill first? How much faster would the one who filled first have been filled?

Wow I think we can finally agree on something that in 30 secs one glass is fuller than the other. Pretending you can stand in once place for 30 seconds and land that many consecutive axe chains on a creature in game that isnt a golem. This turns out to be a pretty big difference in over a second or 2.

Let me switch it on you pretend that you have 2 glasses and you begin pouring water
at the same time in under 10 secs. Not only are both glasses have almost indistinguishably the same amount of water in them but the differences are as little as .1 to .2s.

Which almost means nothing to anyone without a tight butt.

Edit:

And that is why DWA is no good.

hendo.1940:

Warlord.9074:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Warlord.9074:

hendo.1940:

Warlord.9074:

I wouldn’t say your results are different than mine.

Wot.

I think I deserve an answer to the question I asked you. Unless you can provide a situation In game besides a time based attack on a golem that will show a 9% DPS increase I think everyone needs an honest answer of when this becomes a 9% DPS increase. Because if you don’t your video and your test is disingenuous.

Wait wait wait, this looks potentially hilarious. I want to parse this out.

Please explain to me exactly what you think damage per SECOND is based on if not time.

damage per second as you would say is based on damage. my argument is very simple pretend that a glass of water has 8oz and you pour 5oz from it. Your right in that it doesn’t change the fact that it was 8oz of water. where water represents damage. But saying you poured 8oz just because that is what you had to start with is pretty much the basis of this your argument.

Which is really pretty fake and I think anyone at this point with half a brain can figure that out and understand that that is totally illogical. Its a great way to try and argue and that anybody that doesn’t know any better I am sure they would fall for it.

And that was the purpose of this entire exercise. Wasn’t to prove that that glass had 8oz water in it. But to prove that under the conditions that were being asserted that 8oz water was not leaving the glass. So the claims that were being met were not only illogical but unrepeatable in real world.

Wot.

Thats right If we know you weight 200 pounds and you only have one leg on the scale instead of both. Doesn’t change the fact that you weight 200 pounds. But you can’t say that is what the scale said you weighed just because we know thats what you weigh. Thats what you are doing and its pretty dumb to think that anyone besides somone who wants that to be right and troll me would believe that.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Warlord.9074:

hendo.1940:

Warlord.9074:

I wouldn’t say your results are different than mine.

Wot.

I think I deserve an answer to the question I asked you. Unless you can provide a situation In game besides a time based attack on a golem that will show a 9% DPS increase I think everyone needs an honest answer of when this becomes a 9% DPS increase. Because if you don’t your video and your test is disingenuous.

Wait wait wait, this looks potentially hilarious. I want to parse this out.

Please explain to me exactly what you think damage per SECOND is based on if not time.

damage per second as you would say is based on damage. my argument is very simple pretend that a glass of water has 8oz and you pour 5oz from it. Your right in that it doesn’t change the fact that it was 8oz of water. where water represents damage. But saying you poured 8oz just because that is what you had to start with is pretty much the basis of this your argument.

Which is really pretty fake and I think anyone at this point with half a brain can figure that out and understand that that is totally illogical. Its a great way to try and argue and that anybody that doesn’t know any better I am sure they would fall for it.

And that was the purpose of this entire exercise. Wasn’t to prove that that glass had 8oz water in it. But to prove that under the conditions that were being asserted that 8oz water was not leaving the glass. So the claims that were being met were not only illogical but unrepeatable in real world.