Guild Wars 2

I mean, it was nerfed. The rest is the same. Sure, blind can be an asset against a single burst, but after seeing some traits from the previews of PoF – blind will be stacking intensity rather than duration.

So, that single blind every 12s is not really going to be worth it. 3-4 years back, sure, but now every class has multi-hit strikes with ticking AoEs.

…

Any alter except the one that’s used on Necros. It’s rancid with all that blood and minion corpses.

I’m still waiting for sword auto’s crippling thrust to cleave 3 targets.

Loss of stability, unique damage and movement bonuses were major hits. And now, SotW is the only signet with an active that does not have any pet interaction. Hmm…

LughLongArm.5460:

Add this to the list – Instinctive Reaction doesn’t scale with might, probably other stats modifiers as well.

I assumed that wasn’t a bug, seeing how they like to code these stat conversions like Sigil of Bursting. Check out what does and does not affect the stat conversion and it’s the same across the board with these traits on all professions.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Bursting

Edit: There’s another bug that condition Rangers would be happy to know exists. Well, any Ranger, really (I guess). Keeping it hush for now but it should be part of the trait anyways.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

They could have given something back instead of just removing stats from those skills, re-working GFtE so that the toughness didn’t apply to SoulB couldn’t have been too hard.

GftE really needs to be reworked into something involving the pet vs an opponent with weakness. That way, there can be synergy with Winter’s Bite, Protective Ward, and Wilting Strike – among the other sources of weakness built in other pets such as Drakes, Black Bear, and Cave Spider.

As for the stat nerf from ET and NH on pets, those could have been rolled in baseline to pets. Have different tiers of healing power as condition damage had when it was baseline and up the condition damage some to compensate for ET.

Healing power tiers of 150-300-450 would make up for it and have all pets effective with Invigorating Bond, then increase the condition damage tiers from 400-700-1000 to 600-900-1200 on pets. It wouldn’t make up for the 33% condition duration and fall 100 points short that ET once provided, but it’s something.

The other problem is still a problem, which is this trait places the pet in danger. If both could be solved, preferably, at the same time – awesome.

I wonder how this would even interact with Soulbeast. What was supposed to be loaded off onto the pet doesn’t happen, so it just becomes a neglected trait – or will it be bugged and copy lesser duration conditions onto the player?

Find out this weekend!

Well, it is rather lackluster. Of course, you can’t stop people from thinking that stacking as much -% condition duration with this trait is great. It’s a heavy investment just to ensure your pet stays alive which, by all means, is a solid concept. Unfortunately, having to build around that doesn’t amount to much.

Now, if EB provided condition reduction while increasing pet survival against conditions, then that would be a different story. Considering that Soften the Fall’s change paired with Wilderness Knowledge once again trumps Empathic Bond, the attempt to make EB better was appreciated, and could still use refining.

I dunno. With the way things are going now, that might end up stowing the player, and when we come back, we won’t be able to move or act for 3s.

Neat idea, but best not to risk it.

Most likely because of Soulbeast. Traits that affect pets work differently on it. We don’t know how or by how much. It’s safe to say they did this so they (Anet) had an easier time balancing that out.

The most likely case would be it just uses what the pet would have gained. With the traits how they currently are, there are less stats added to the SB elite.

If anything, note that the stat conversion of ET and IR are bugged currently. It converts 7% of the pet’s stats into whatever stat as it does for the player, but then deducts 10pts on the pet only for some weird reason.

It’s just 0.66% more condition duration or a smidgen amount of healing, I know, but a bug’s a bug.

It’s kind of funny since the active for SotW is what some were asking for as a replacement for Vine Surge (staff 4).

I agree to an extent about some of the reworked signets. SoH is great and SoR seems all right for the most part. Signet of the Wild’s active doesn’t make sense as it’s passive is an offensive boost for you and the pet while the active is like an Entangle trap.

I wish they shifted the SotP effect of you and your pet grant each other might as the active to keep the new SotW offensively themed while retaining the new 40s cd.

Then the old SotW active as the new SotP effects with the 60s cooldown. Would get around having the initial boons being corrupted or ripped and making it a long cd might stacker. Losing swiftness and fury, retain the stability and have unique movement and damage buffs that can’t be removed. Plus, this update gave us a lot more fury sources.

Maybe make the immobilizing garden as the new animation for Seed of Life, and have the immobilization be a bonus when traited with Verdant Etchings so SoL snares and blinds foes when it ends. Spit-ballin’ on this one. The animation is really pleasant.

Thought the cooldowns and durations are a bit odd.

PvE: 70s/5s – PvP: 70s/2½s.

I’d much prefer a small duration drop and a lower cooldown like 60s/4s PvE and 60s/2s PvP. Didn’t look at WvW numbers so I’m not sure which one it shares.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Durzlla.6295:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

ZhouX.8742:

pvp empathic is 80/20 , pve is 50/50

Ranger still has 80% condi duration and the pet takes 20%?

So the ranger would only gain 20% condi duration reduction, which is alright I guess, but that’s not an equivalent trade to 4 condis banished to the nether every 10s.

Yeah, it really seems even worse now. -20% duration for a GM trait? Looking at the Ranger and pet as a whole, you actually gain no benefit from this GM trait until you swap pets. At least before, it actually removed the conditions from you, at least if your pet dies, you are still on your feet.

I’ll stand by the suggestion that I have been making for years, this would be far better as it was previously, just make it 1 condi per 3s. Then you could give the -% duration to the pet as well.

EB this patch is really the odd-one-out. Its change kills the pet faster and only works when building up -condition duration% around it.

Kind of fun when seeing a Ranger use the new EB as a Necro. Even with the reduced condition dropped off onto the pet, hitting both the Ranger and the pet lowers the amount of time to stack up condis on the pet before using Epidemic.

The ticking time-bomb pet is still there, and ticks even faster now. Fun stuff.

Had to do some testing on the conversion of Expertise Training and Instinctive Reaction. The conversion for the Pet actually does scale with the Pet’s stats, but there are a couple of bugs I found.

• Expertise Training and Instinctive Reaction conversion for the PET ONLY is: (Pet’s Vitality x 7%) – 10. I don’t know why it automatically deducts 10 points away, but it does, and shouldn’t.
• Expertise Training and Instinctive Reaction conversion is NOT affected by the attribute increase from slotting the Beastmastery traitline. Just as a reminder, Expertise Training converts Vitality while Instinctive Reaction converts Power: both of which are increased by +150 when Beastmastery is taken.

Player stat conversions are fine, though.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I’m also going to presume most of these changes were brought about because of the upcoming expansion and new elite spec. But, again, I want to see these in effect before I make an overall judgment.

It’s a safe presumption to be sure. Today’s update is an odd one, since the changes are like puzzle pieces, but only half of them until PoF releases. At that time, everything should start to click (or not).

Remorseless and core power Ranger builds will definitely get some mileage from VQ. Can’t say for sure if it’s worth picking Skirmishing over other specializations outside of those 2 builds.

Though, VQ might see further use with Soulbeast and the new Greiver’s set (power,condition/precision,ferocity). Worth a test run with that traitline for sure in the future.

Yes, you recall correctly. It was like this after launch of Heart of Thorns. Beta version of AG worked like the version that didn’t stow the pet or hide utilities. It was changed to a transformation at launch, then reverted back after we complained.

We have come full circle yet again.

Krispera.5087:

Predator’s Instinct and Companion’s Might got buffed. I’ll take a traited WK Zephyr’s Speed over 3 might on swap any day.

Predator’s Instinct definitely was buffed. Companion’s Might, now Potent Ally, is a mixed bag. The 1s ICD is bothering and overall condition damage from pets with high precision is much lower this patch due to the changes in Expertise Training and Companion’s Might bleed removal on critical hits with basic attacks.

Granted, we can all see this is in prep for Soulbeast, so… we’ll just have to wait it out until PoF.

Seems Ancestral Grace was changed to a transformation; the kind that removes utilities and stows pets – like a tonic. Because of this, it is unable to blast in any field created by a pet since pet combo fields disappear immediately when they are stowed/deactivated.

Smokescale’s combo field is fine. Was able to blast in it with other means (such as Call of the Wild). On a side note: Elementalist’s Ride the Lightning was changed to this, too. It now locks utilities while in the animation. Elementalist’s Elementals are not affected though, since they are not pet-pets.

Good. Interesting. And Odd.

Still more testing to do.

StickerHappy.8052:

Not being sarcastic or anything but can you care to explain how is OS helpful in pve other than vs trash mobs? For example this trait would be non existent vs Champs and Legends for the early part of the fight right?

If one wolf pack is global ICD, I think that is very unfortunate. It blocks any potential on this trait and limits it as 1v1 burst elite. Having the ICD per target will be better in teamfights IMO.

Stance CD reduction is a must IMO. If there is no CD reduction, the Spirit GM trait will be better than this one honestly. Even just a 10% reduction and some other effect.

How bout you, I think the Stance GM is really too bland, maybe 1 more added effect will be good since there is a 50% reduction on the original effect already

Well, on OS, I’m giving Anet the benefit of the doubt this one time that they wouldn’t be dumb enough to base it off of actual hit-points instead of a health percentage. I see your concern, though. If it turns out that way, it shouldn’t surprise us, and will need to be changed based on health % instead.

I also agree with One Wolf Pack’s global ICD. Per target would be much better. Due to piercing, cleaving, area of effect, and cascading strikes, OWP will have some difficulty if trying to single out a certain foe among even a small group.

Stance CD reduction is something I can get on board with for Leader of the Pack. It’s one of those traits where one would choose it for team play, but if you’re solo roaming, it’s not ideal at all. A CD reduction added onto it would make it more flexible.

As for Leader of the Pack itself having 1 more effect, I’ll have to see. None of the previews showed off that darn Moa Stance, so, just going off what I’ve seen there might be something that can be added to it – but what? Hmm.

Man, I forgot about not having a trap elite. Haha! Yeah, I’ll take an elite Smoke Trap instead. At this point, a Trap kit would be cool, too.

Kind of wondering how that button config would go. I can only use Engineer kit layouts as an example, since usually the kit icon flips into dropping the kit. Or would that be an Elite that flips utilities over and we choose which traps to slot?

Even though I’m a Ranger, I’m more excited with Holosmith. The heat mechanic – on paper – is interesting. I’ve also waited for a reason to use my Shashadoo since crafting it. Sword n board Holosmith!

TE making them throwable again would help. Every time I do AC for kicks, I am reminded of how cool it is when the Ascalonian Rangers there like to do that little setup of tossing a trap behind you, then knocking you back into it.

I’d also like to see Frost Trap completely replaced with a Smoke Trap. Would be cool if we had 1 non-damaging trap so we can use it with Trapper Runes. Maybe have the initial trigger do a small daze like ½s and the pulses blind foes. The extra smoke field would also be nice to blast stealth.

Wish we could see the other traits. It’s kind of crazy when I see traits like THIS as a minor trait in the new elite specs.

I have doubts SB would get anything that powerful, let alone as a minor trait, seeing how our GMs are.

Odd, because Oppressive Superiority is exactly how the Light on Your Feet bonus should have worked instead of dodging. It activates on targets lower health than yours, which is exceedingly useful for PVE, unless the player just face tanks everything. Most likely works on a % threshold (or at least it better).

A good example are Scholar Runes are still used and that’s with player health remaining above 90%. In comparison, OS is far more lenient the lower a target’s health is and comes with extended condition duration, which Ranger lacks aside from LoyF – and that wastes endurance and lasts 4s.

CD reduction would be nice for Leader of the Pack.

One Wolf Pack reads as a global ICD since it specifies “This effect can occur once per interval.” instead of “This effect can occur only once per target.”

No idea for how traits affect differently with Soulbeast. This can be a non-concern since what information that is available to us is not enough to conclude anything.

Eternal Bond might be something to look at. I agree, for a GM it seems rather high. 60s would seem like a better number to test it out.

It doesn’t need fixing. Drakes need fixing. Not only their AI, but Salamander, Frost, and Reef Drake F2s. Those cones can be side-stepped so easily and are better off converted into bouncing bolts like the River and Marsh Drake F2s.

Salamander and Frost Drake being further left behind since their durations are a 1s base, balanced when Expertise Training used to give +50% condition duration to pets (current +33%).

Justine.6351:

Think he is wondering if the icd is per target or global.

If so, by the wording, it seems global. I’ve seen 2 different notes so far on the reveal, akin to what we have now.

The ones like on Vulture Stance reading, “This effect can occur once per interval.” and then there are ones like on Scourge’s Demonic Lore trait that reads, “This trait can only inflict burning on a particular target once every three seconds.”

Right now, it’s just a maybe since it could be changed between now and later.

Edit: As side notes, seems the might on the wiki vulture stance seems bloated by Lingering Magic. Anet’s usually clean with whole numbers when it comes to might duration. Seems likely to be 6s of might, poison, and stance duration.

Anyways, interval does bring up a concern on the early run. Vulture Stance could do without the health threshold so hits poison & grant might together rather than depending; would lessen any issues brought about by cleaving and targeting issues.

So, beyond the speculation and comparisons, the more important question is how would these stances work when shared and stacked. Will they be able to stack, and if so, how?

An example is 2 Soulbeasts using Bear Stance next to one another with the shared trait. Will it count as the players having both instances of Bear Stance running at the same time?

Meaning, for the first 2 seconds, they are losing 4 conditions per second and healing for each condition lost, then having just the single instance of Bear Stance apply for the final 2 seconds, losing 2 conditions per second, yada yada.

Or, will it increase the duration? So, then each Soulbeast that shares a stance with the same allied target has the effects last longer. In the above example of just 2 Soulbeasts, that would extend it to 6 seconds (4s + 2s shared). If so, is there a duration cap?

Or, the final, plausible outcome: stances won’t stack at all and/or refresh to their max duration – but depending on the source. Meaning, if I have Bear Stance and it drains down from 4s to 3s, then someone grants me Bear Stance, it caps at 4s or doesn’t apply at all.

Likewise with shared instances where if one Soulbeast grants an ally Bear Stance (2s), then I share that stance with that same ally 1 second later, it just caps at 2s. Something to think about when testing it during the beta coming up later.

Unless someone has footage showing how this works, please post it. I’m certain many of us would like to know. Also, apologies for using Bear Stance a lot, but (hopefully) you get the gist of it.

Durzlla.6295:

Everyone keeps comparing culture stance to thief… but do we know how vulture stance works with AoE yet?

Not yet. It might work like Thief venoms where it counts as the player dealing the condition damage or granting might (preferable), or it might not and use the allies’ stats instead (such as how Spirits work, which is not preferable).

If it works like the latter, it will be definitely hindered. Also not sure if it’s stackable with multiple Soulbeasts using it in proximity with each other with the shared stance trait. It’s worth bringing up since it’s a unique buff with an ICD interval.

Wonder what the coefficient on the strike is. That number looks just a bit behind the lightning strike from sigil of air – which is pretty kitten good if you ask me.

It’s a Sylvari racial skills. (Most likely)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_sylvari_racial_skills

Lynx for condition builds.
Jaguar for power builds, Tiger for power builds when lacking fury.
Bristleback for either build as a ranged pet.
Lightning Wyvern for cleave and large hit-boxes.
Pink Moa for CC on small hit-boxes. Black Moa if you have access.
Smokescale, Bristleback, and Wolf are strong PvP/WvW pets. Will very depending on build, playstyle, and scenario.

Fire Wyvern is also handy in PvE when dealing with grouped mobs. DPS-wise, it can crank out similar damage to a mid-ranged Bristleback, but on multiple targets. It’s not to be undervalued, especially on a condition setup, likewise with the fire field it provides.

Hmm… taking the description literally, wondering if it only works on traits. So, leaving out weapon skills, utilities, heals, and elites that have pet interaction would be done purposefully to still promote pet interaction.

Things like Double Arc (dagger), Pounce (sword), Winter’s Bite (axe), and shouts might just work as though the pet was not active/stowed. A possible balance move between Ranger and Soulbeast?

Substance E.4852:

Wondrouswall.7169:

Substance E.4852:

Probably because the two aren’t anything alike aside from moving you 1200 units?
Might as well ask ancestral grace to have the same cooldown as swoop.

I’ve always wanted to know why Swoop was 1100 distance and no other long-distanced travel skill has that number (usually 1200). Not a big deal, though. Devs be devs.

The only thing I can think of is they want 1200 to be the soft target limit of skills but Swoop moving us 1200 units would mean that we would stop at 1200 and then swing while moving us 1100 means we stop just short of a target at 1200 range and then hit them with a 100 range swipe.

That makes sense. Reminds me of Rocket Boots then, like how it’s 900 overall distance but the range is 600, since the last 300 range is the landing roll.

Still makes me wonder how Sharpened Edges works with Soulbeast. It would kind of be funny if the % chance increased back to 66% when fused with the pet.

Durzlla.6295:

Additionally Wyvern damage as a whole is on the lower end, so you’ll likely take a squishier higher damage pet instead (Cats are highest sustained vs immobile enemies).

Correction on that. Wyvern damage is upper-middle end. They fall behind felines, bristleback, and F2-spamming Hawk & Eagle.

Lower end are Hyena and Bears, which Wyverns deal nearly 3x as much DPS as those pets while providing excellent cleave. By no means are they lower end.

Electro.4173:

Dagger auto-attack animations on many classes already have 4 hits, in terms of animation and individual hits registering. Its just that the 2nd and 3rd hit (or is it the 1st and 2nd? I’m blanking on exactly which) are generally packaged together into one attack, with that attack being a quick back-and-forth slash. I’m assuming they just separated it out into 4 distinct attacks for Soulbeast’s dagger, maybe tweak the animation just slightly so that its more spaced out between those two.

1st and 2nd. That said, I checked back with some of the footage available to us and Spellbreaker seems to have this as well (at least no double-strike on the initial combo, theirs is still 3-hits). I wonder if it’s an overhaul for all dagger auto attacks to be broken into 4-hit combos, or at least the removal of the initial double strike.

Gotta wait until the 8th. If so, I wonder if it’s to tone down Thief dagger auto a bit and give that boost Necromancers wanted to their auto attack. Will be interesting nonetheless.

Substance E.4852:

Probably because the two aren’t anything alike aside from moving you 1200 units?
Might as well ask ancestral grace to have the same cooldown as swoop.

I’ve always wanted to know why Swoop was 1100 distance and no other long-distanced travel skill has that number (usually 1200). Not a big deal, though. Devs be devs.

Here’s hoping Drake AI is fixed and core melee pets’ auto attacks being affected by quickness is addressed. Also hoping Fortifying Bond is baseline and sword’s auto attacks can cleave on all hits.

Did anyone else not notice that the SB dagger auto attack is a 4-hit combo? I find that kind of strange. Haven’t checked the footage again to see if there are new animations.

I’ll say this, if some of those stances are underwhelming and could use buffing, I’ll be more than happy to agree to buff the heck out of it! I can budge on an increased radius. I thought about it. I still want to see if 360 radius is suitable, but if it’s increased to 600, I’ll be all for it.

We are, indeed, on the same path from different ends – and beneath all of this, we both want these stances, Soulbeast, and Ranger overall to perform well. In that regards, I do admire your tenacity on wanting to bring attention to these stances to be more than they are now.

Hey, looks like we’re at an impasse!

I want tests, results from those tests, then tweaking. There’s no point in going back and forth since what I say is not going to agree with you and vice-versa. Agree to disagree?

keramatzmode.1906:

We live in 2017 where mounts trigger people in a videogame, to an extend you want a censorship because somehow you have personal problems with people using domesticated wildlife as a mode of transportation.

That is the world we live in. Remember the krytan floppy fish? And that was just a miniature.

And how is it you arrived at the conclusion Stances need to be compared and improved to Venoms? I see Warrior stances, and compare these stances to theirs, and then look at how these stances fit into what SB and the condition application Ranger has, and it seems fine.

When I think group utility, I think of shouts, and how the other ones could use tweaking and more improvements. As I see it, it’s only been 1 day after the announcement and you’re asking for buffs on stuff before you even tested it.

I’m saying no for extended duration and range, and the others that chimed in agree with that sentiment, but we’ll see when we can all demo it more than a week from now.

No, I didn’t forget. Bountiful Theft requires Steal to connect to grant its effects. Negating a steal pretty much tosses it out. Vigorous Training just happens.

Spider Venom and Signet of Agility have their own thing. Vulture and Griffon stance has their own thing. Signet of Agility refills peeps endurance and cleanses conditions, Griffon stance provides an uncorruptable buff that is essentially 8s of vigor in 4s for allies and grants a no ICD might when evading attacks.

Spider Venom is a straight up DPS increase and heal debuff while Vulture offers might to allies to take down targets above 50% health, and then weakens their healing with additional DPS while they are below it.

One is not better than the other, and are different enough to fit different scenarios and settings. Come on, man. We all know apples are better than oranges.

penguin.6491:

sorudo.9054:

i can answer the last question, you can use them anywhere in the game regardless, just like gliders.

Wait, where was this confirmed? I had understood it as just for the new zones so now I’m all curious.

Roy tweeted it out.

https://twitter.com/RoyCronacher/status/892432117291925504

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

How is it power creep to ask that a stance for an eSpec when combined with a GM trait is at least as good as a vanilla signet?

Here, let me break that down. Thief is a completely selfish class that lacks group support while the Ranger is drowning in it.

We share so many buffs and boons, and then stacking that on top of what other professions can share in a group setting is why I think that is fine, especially when combined with the GM trait.

It’s amazing that the GM even exists. Even if it ends up not breaking the endurance cap (to be fair, none of us know yet if it will or not), we can still provide group vigor among other things while Thief has their 1 Signet which works with groups.

If they want to add more to a group, they have to slot venoms, and they are useful as offensive and snare tools while the heal works while being niche. It’s all good in those regards.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Wondrouswall.7169:

…let alone the shared radius from 360 to 600.

You obviously have no desire to play WvW.

Hey, thanks for making assumptions!

Low radius on these. 360 is fair enough. Lunar Impact is a clear example of how many targets can be hit with such a number. Combo blasts are also 360 radius. I see no issue with that number.

Be happy it’s not 240, but then again, it might get nerfed to that later. What I see is you want more, on top of more. Do you have no desire to keep the power creep in check? Because it seems you want to add more to the ongoing problems.