Guild Wars 2

Does this Dishonour system also work for AFK’ers? Like when people AFK cause the team is losing a match and thus has given up? It’s so kittening annoying when they give up like halfway in the match and ruin the gaming experience for everybody.

butch.8136:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

mrauls.6519:

ehtom.5047:

2. Could you have guessed where the traps are? (Answer: Yes)

C’mon man… Really?

>Yeah, shame on you for not bieng able to dodge an invisable 10 k trap on point man.

>Shame on you for not bieng able to dodge an trap that takes like 3 quarters of the close and far nodes. on average.

>Shame on you for not bieng able to dodge an trap in the midst of a skirmish man with your 2 endurance bars. the 6 second dragons maw is completely justified. You shoulda have stability ready. Even if they are necro’s, scrappers and eles with their CC bombs. No man this is completely your fault.

>Yeah man. Everybody should just tailor thier build to dragonhunters..

Too be honest, you can kinda predict where it is and where it will be. The only issue traps might have atm is that they’re kinda spammable. Maybe increase the cooldown a notch and it’s fine imo.

You see a DH on point. (Stab +) dodge into it.
Don’t get kited by the DH, kite the DH.
If he teleports on you, dodge.

>Kite a dragonhunter on point with 8K trueshots, and virtue of courage which litterally blocks everything from the front. And virtue of justice which he can use on you after you waisted your endurance dodging thier 1.5 to 2 k basics shots. To draw you in and use their traps. The only way u get behind a dragonhunter is with stealth, Or be a daredevil or thief. Get to close to a DH and get knockbacked. When he knocks you back. He get’s stabilty. Making it even harder to get him off point. If you by some chance manage to win a ranged battle against a dragonhunter. Better hope you haven’’t wasted too much precious time waisting your points. Basically they way to fight a dragon hunter on a close or far node. Is offpoint figthing solely.

>Waiste your stability on thier initial trap so that they can pull you down. with virtue of justice or use dragonsmaw. And daze and dps you till thier 25 sec procession of blades is ready to go again. Also they have a knockback with longbow every 15 secs. Also cripple. U can only realy fight DH by figthing offpoint. And sure u can dodge thier teleports. But figthing a DH is overall very impractical. Those tactics really work somewhat in an 1 v 1 situation. But that’s not it. U are bound to waister your stability and endurance on other foes then the dragonhunter.

Bassically what you are telling us. Don’t get hit. Which is absurd.

mrauls.6519:

ehtom.5047:

2. Could you have guessed where the traps are? (Answer: Yes)

C’mon man… Really?

>Yeah, shame on you for not bieng able to dodge an invisable 10 k trap on point man.

>Shame on you for not bieng able to dodge an trap that takes like 3 quarters of the close and far nodes. on average.

>Shame on you for not bieng able to dodge an trap in the midst of a skirmish man with your 2 endurance bars. the 6 second dragons maw is completely justified. You shoulda have stability ready. Even if they are necro’s, scrappers and eles with their CC bombs. No man this is completely your fault.

>Yeah man. Everybody should just tailor thier build to dragonhunters..

speed, lots and lots of speed, I run daredevil with perma swiftness, sigil of energy. double pistol and staff. 2 stealth atleast. And one stunbreacker. Basically don’t get hit.

When in a skirmish at mid. Try to timer the moment you go melee. cause there is a lot of pbAOE at the moment. Investing into ranged damage is not a bad idea. granted your dps drops. but better to stay alive for more then 2 secs then go into the fray and get nuked.

Hello. A-Net. I just recently claimed my guild hall. The lost Precipe And I’m not sure if this is an game mechanic that can be attained later on. However I do have to say that that Crystal like formation looks like an Crystalised version of the Iron Throne. It begs to be sat on. So if it’s possible to able to sit on the crystal formation needed to claim the guild hall. Then my question is. How do you get to sit on that crystalised formation.

If not. I ask you A-net to make it so that it’s possible to sit on that crystalised formation? It would be a a nice little gimmick.

kdaddy.5431:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

kdaddy.5431:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

yes it’s pay to win tough. Elite specs seem to genereally add on the previous established meta, parts of some meta. Or certain combinations of traitlines that favour dps, Burst AOE and now a bit more frequently PbAOE. I think that people that argue that elite specs aren’t as strong as the old build. Are mainly arguing from a 1 v 1 scenario. And even that is in my opinion a bit exagarated. Put 5 elite specs vs 5 non elite specs. And have them duke it out in Mid.. Chances are the non elite specs get nuked out of existence to the point that even Grenth and Balthazar will say: ‘’kittenn!!! That’s a bit too much. ’’

No match should ever have a 5 vs 5

also bunker guard with the old meta dps warrior and d/d ele still can beat any of the new spec 3 v s 3. Better yet 2 d/d ele and 1 dps longbow ranger since the new dh all seem to be using traps, scrappers are using hammer for the most part. So if you want to pick 3 and i pick 3 the old meta still works.

it happens more often then you think mate.

But no. I don’t see your set up beating the following elite specs, Dragonhunter, Reaper Chronomancer..

The standard dps lonbow ranger get ussually focused down first. And that is something any of the 3 elte specs can do easily, no sweat.The DPS lonbowranger is can’t do much here really aside from spamming 2 2 2 2 and 1 1 1 1 1 1. the moment it get’s focused down it’s death Also the chronomancer with it’s tides of time or echo of memory can easily block the initial burst. And at the same time apply slow in the initial combo. Assuming the phantasm cannot reach the ranger. It will go for the 2 dagger/Dagger ele.

Reapers have tons of chill and in death shroud they can hit for an average of 5 to 6 k cleave. on average. A single dragonhunter trap can hit for 8 k and procession of blades only has a 25 sec cd. dragonsmaw. and an average cleave of a reaper when focused can kill a single dagger/dagger ele just like that. Also it’s not uncommon to run DH with medi guards specs here. Neither is it uncommon to run signet reapers as well. thier boon corruption is pretty much what they need to get rid of a traditional cantrip dagger/dagger ele. the thing is here. Dagger/dagger fight close ranged against a medi DH with an 8 to 10 k trap in 25 sec cd. a reaper with an average of 5 to 6 cleave with signets. And a chronomancer that would have no trouble whatsoever stomping a longbow ranger.

As I said before. I wager very good players can maby rack up builds that allow them to beat the elite specs in 1 on 1. Or use a meta build to beat an elite spec 1 v 1. But the moment you fight them ing rooups it will show you how much lacking your dps is. The reason you beat an elite spec is pretty much due to skill level. it’s because you are so good that you can master them and know them in depth most of the time. Or have a build that fundamentally hardcounters a certain build.

Don’t take this too litterally. But your powerlevels are basically to low here. whatever dps you can dish out singelhandily is completel meaningless in a teamfight. Heck more often then not strategy and skill sometimes even take a backseat. You simply are that friggishly powerfull.

Heck how many people here still continue to get baited in an 8 k to 10 k procession of blades trap?

Or get cleaved by an reaper in reaper shrowd? Or get CC’ed to hell by a an scrapper?

Whatever situation you could describe here. Is not really how it really goes here.The average player is not going to analyse the elite specs in full. And look for counter. they often go to mid with like 3 to 4 guys. And simply get nuked. Countless threads prove it here.

The exception proves the rule. not the other way around.

This isnt right though, what you are saying could potentially happen but you make it sound like your gonna sit in the trap or sit in the reaper 4 skill and the range will just sit there.

D/D ele is still being used in the ESL tournaments and we had 2 longbow rangers in finals before the HOT came out to face the abjured.

Mace shield/ GS warrior is still one of the best 1 vs 1 builds out there. Your talking a about trap Dh then i say old staff ele build with magnetic aura share, dps warrior and long bow ranger.

We target necro first he will die instantly from rampage and pew pew ranger. Dh kill himself from magnetic aura and we dont run into his traps or better yet we have 1 stability to get out.

With the more build options i know people who went back to S/D on thief and they pick and choose. Pew pew rangers are better since scrappers and Dh sit in a spot and wait for you to come them. I can now run signet of stone with a pet shout to take incoming damage and the DH literally will try to exchange dps with longbows with me.

Your talking skill level which is perfectly fine but the old meta builds are still being used at the highest level of competition in this game.

I’m not saying that there will no counter play. But I’m basing this on averages. Till so far nobody just dodges traps, or goes stability and calls it day. That’s not how it goes in reality. Ussually you go mid with like 3 to 4 people. And get nuked. by procession of blades and or dragons maw. I mean till now people still have trouble with DH.

people will want to fight on point. Rangers just like necro’s get focused as well. The chronmancer with all of it’s wells would keep them in place. It’s actually a common combo. The key lies in on point figthing here. And that is where the elite specs will have most of it’s advantages here.

Sure you can argue that at the absolute top meta’s are still prevalent. But my friend that is not how your average joe plays. Your average joe still get’s cc’ed to hell scrappers. Or get’s bursted down by chronomancers. I do see the appeal of reffering to esl tier game play but how many of us will reach that level?

BTW I already thought you already picked your 3 builds. But if you go dps warrior. staff ele and longbow ranger. I’d go chronomancer. Dragonhunter and Herald. DPS warriors either run marauders or berserker. the moment it get’s in range. it either get’s nuked or controlled by both chronomaner and Dragonhunter. Sure it can pick it’s double endure pain. But nothing else much. The herald itself can pretty much face tank the initial burst of whatever the lonbow ranger and warrior have offer. with infuse light for example. The thing is here. you still need to kill the DH in less then 25 sec. I don’t see that happening with an herald and chronomancer at his side.

It’s not plausible for a normal player to do that.

Also, sure you can argue that old meta builds are used at highest level of the game. But is everybody in premades that can tango with the abjured? Or with Orange logo, 55hp monks etc? No. there has to be a balance set. And how things currently are. most people cannot fight against an elite spec.

they have a slight chance of winning 1v1. But in teamfights they get nuked.

U kinda cannot counter them with anything elsse then pistols really. Espically the daze and dragons maw which makes escaping those traps one heck of a chore.

sure u can use shadowstep, or shadow refuge, evade and other movement skills. But you’d be unnesisarily blowing through your evades. And even then they still have thier 8k true shot longbow. And if they are Medi and run the longsword. U can still be burst down. You gotta kill them in less then 25 secs really.

It’s not impossible to do so without guns but, using guns is the easiest method imo.

kdaddy.5431:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

yes it’s pay to win tough. Elite specs seem to genereally add on the previous established meta, parts of some meta. Or certain combinations of traitlines that favour dps, Burst AOE and now a bit more frequently PbAOE. I think that people that argue that elite specs aren’t as strong as the old build. Are mainly arguing from a 1 v 1 scenario. And even that is in my opinion a bit exagarated. Put 5 elite specs vs 5 non elite specs. And have them duke it out in Mid.. Chances are the non elite specs get nuked out of existence to the point that even Grenth and Balthazar will say: ‘’kittenn!!! That’s a bit too much. ’’

No match should ever have a 5 vs 5

also bunker guard with the old meta dps warrior and d/d ele still can beat any of the new spec 3 v s 3. Better yet 2 d/d ele and 1 dps longbow ranger since the new dh all seem to be using traps, scrappers are using hammer for the most part. So if you want to pick 3 and i pick 3 the old meta still works.

it happens more often then you think mate.

But no. I don’t see your set up beating the following elite specs, Dragonhunter, Reaper Chronomancer..

The standard dps lonbow ranger get ussually focused down first. And that is something any of the 3 elte specs can do easily, no sweat.The DPS lonbowranger is can’t do much here really aside from spamming 2 2 2 2 and 1 1 1 1 1 1. the moment it get’s focused down it’s death Also the chronomancer with it’s tides of time or echo of memory can easily block the initial burst. And at the same time apply slow in the initial combo. Assuming the phantasm cannot reach the ranger. It will go for the 2 dagger/Dagger ele.

Reapers have tons of chill and in death shroud they can hit for an average of 5 to 6 k cleave. on average. A single dragonhunter trap can hit for 8 k and procession of blades only has a 25 sec cd. dragonsmaw. and an average cleave of a reaper when focused can kill a single dagger/dagger ele just like that. Also it’s not uncommon to run DH with medi guards specs here. Neither is it uncommon to run signet reapers as well. thier boon corruption is pretty much what they need to get rid of a traditional cantrip dagger/dagger ele. the thing is here. Dagger/dagger fight close ranged against a medi DH with an 8 to 10 k trap in 25 sec cd. a reaper with an average of 5 to 6 cleave with signets. And a chronomancer that would have no trouble whatsoever stomping a longbow ranger.

As I said before. I wager very good players can maby rack up builds that allow them to beat the elite specs in 1 on 1. Or use a meta build to beat an elite spec 1 v 1. But the moment you fight them ing rooups it will show you how much lacking your dps is. The reason you beat an elite spec is pretty much due to skill level. it’s because you are so good that you can master them and know them in depth most of the time. Or have a build that fundamentally hardcounters a certain build.

Don’t take this too litterally. But your powerlevels are basically to low here. whatever dps you can dish out singelhandily is completel meaningless in a teamfight. Heck more often then not strategy and skill sometimes even take a backseat. You simply are that friggishly powerfull.

Heck how many people here still continue to get baited in an 8 k to 10 k procession of blades trap?

Or get cleaved by an reaper in reaper shrowd? Or get CC’ed to hell by a an scrapper?

Whatever situation you could describe here. Is not really how it really goes here.The average player is not going to analyse the elite specs in full. And look for counter. they often go to mid with like 3 to 4 guys. And simply get nuked. Countless threads prove it here.

The exception proves the rule. not the other way around.

yes it’s pay to win tough. Elite specs seem to genereally add on the previous established meta, parts of some meta. Or certain combinations of traitlines that favour dps, Burst AOE and now a bit more frequently PbAOE. I think that people that argue that elite specs aren’t as strong as the old build. Are mainly arguing from a 1 v 1 scenario. And even that is in my opinion a bit exagarated. Put 5 elite specs vs 5 non elite specs. And have them duke it out in Mid.. Chances are the non elite specs get nuked out of existence to the point that even Grenth and Balthazar will say: ‘’kittenn!!! That’s a bit too much. ’’

ok i will try it out. And see how it works.

Hey guys. I’m Xanctuz, nice to meet you thiefs. I play all classes at a moderate level and excell at non really. My winrate is also in accordance with that. Roughly an even 50/50 winrate. I’m pvp rank 70. And I thought I’d give my crack at it as well by making thiefs.

I played with daredevil. And at the first few matches thanx to the powercreep I just got murked at cqc range. This could be due to high skill cap which might be too big for my own moderate skill level possibly. Either way running dagger-pistol didn’t work anymore for me that is.

So I thought of investing in mobility and range as much as possible. And bassically I came up with this.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAW6alsMhKnY5Tw7Jw/ELUFlXI8BlQXEEAHw81v9lPA-TJhFABA8EAAvMgN7PkwFBAA

Seems to work pretty good in teamfights. As I can sniper and dps from afar without having to walk in all that massiva AOE nuke going around.

I also pretty much can uphold perma swiftness through out the fight and have tons of dodges thanx to staf mastery, sigil of energy and abcobatics traits. Disengaging is something i’d call a strongpoint in outnumbered situations. even when lockdowned with immobilize or crippling condtions. In 1v1 I have to admit that the results are well unreliable as I well. Am really average. But from what I experienced I can tango with people who are lv 80 or have the champion prefix for said class or are legendary champions. also even the feared true monsters of Halloween. The dragonhunters go down.

This seems to work for me.

I wonder what you guys think about it?

gotta agree with the OP here.

Elite specs are in generall quite a notch above most core builds used in pvp. The DPS is insane. If you slip up even once you’re death. with this power creep you pretty much need to play your rotations and time everything perfectly.

Druids are not only incredibly tanky but you simply cannot trade blows with them. They can share damage, heal and even deal quite the bleed damage.

Dragonhunter: Make one mistake and you get nuked. the odd thing is that dragonhunters still have quite some sustain, even with all that DPS . espically if they go the med guard route. they can burst heal themselves up for 2 k hp.

Or maby A-net needs to learn what nuance is? Maby not create an entire group of new classes. that can just outright destroy everything and anything it comes across even other elite specs? It’s not just elite spec vs non elite. No even amongts elites fights are shortlived. often the winner is determined on which spec hits harder?

Hmm. man I’ve played gw2 for a bit longer. and I must say that the damage seems to have spiked up way up. I used to think the elite specs weren’t all that hard but then I realized that you indeed need to have an elite spec to compete. And not because they are unbeatable, they are still beatable. But rather in a teamfight you simply get out dp’sed no matter how strong a core class is individually. Beating them in 1v1 is not impossible. Hard but not impossible. But the moment you enter a teamfight. There is so much AOE and raw dps or condi’s thrown around that you as a core class have no place here.

For example
>The traps of DH. Be they medi DH or Burning DH. Just deal an insane amount of damage. hitting for an average of about 4 k. from what I’ve seen. And that is just a single trap. Forcing you to go ranged. And if you have some dps behind your ranged weaponry or condi’s then yes you can defeat him in a ranged battle. But is still going to take a quite some time.. And going for the decap is pretty much a nono here. cause you either get nuked by a trap or take so much time fighting one that it’s other powerfull elite spec friends come around.

>Berserker. Uh yeah, never tought I’d actually talk about burning bieng to strong. But if you actually go condi specced. and use rages. there easily like 3 to 4 utilities that allow you to use 1 k of burning for 3 to 4 secs. I can tell. Because I used one. And DPS on berserker is just amazing. Also the quickness combined with either condi’s or dps is actually just makes them hit prolly just as hard as a dragonhunter and scrapper.

Granted I cannot give an eleborate summary on the other elite specs. But now my opinion has changed completely. As it’s now. I’m actually starting to believe that regular classes really stand no chance.

The elite spec is really an powerup rather then going into a different way.

Berserker>Warrior
DH>Guardian
Scrapper>Engineer etc

seems to be the case here. The only elite spec that is not kittenely powerfull at the moment seems to daredevil imo.

I do feel sorry for those that do not have the expansion. Well I hope people are going to fight ways to fight the elite specs in pvp. other then countering them in 1 v 1. which is not enough to win the match.

The game is out for a day. I surely enjoyed my time trying a knack against the elite specs. I haven’t paid much attention to the elite specs during the beta. but from what i see here. they seem to be upgrades or lean into that direction.

Chronomancer-mesmer with wells and blocks. almost as if a mesmer took a few pages out of the guardian and necro book

Reaper-amped up necro

DH-Medi DH and Burning DH seem to amplify each other well

Scrapper-Don’t know how to classify that. seems odd, no strong feelings one way or another.

Druid- ranger with tons of healing power.

Anyways I tried figthing the elite specs withou having use one as well. I run a very standard dps warrior, with marauder amulet, running, strength, defence and disipline+gs and hammer. And at first. I did indeed get two shotted. However lately I noticed that reaper is not that massively different then your standard necro. Either cause the necro’s held back and didn’t fully commit to the elit spec. Same for the DH. who either ran burning or medi guardians. Or druids who ran condi specs. torch sword, taunt and traps. the ususal.

And really I must say that to me there is definately had a lot difficulty figthing them as they seem to be somewhat upgraded versions of the meta’s or upgrades on certain traitlines they have good syngery with. So far i think i beat every spec except scrapper and daredevil. And I do like the increased dps. And new moveset. figthing the chronomancer was incredibly hard but interesting to do so.

So yeah I’m wondering what was your experience figthing the elite specs?

Ok so the HOT game will be released the 23rd of octobore. however I have a slow internet so i have to go somewhere else with better internet. Is there an exact time given on when the game will be released? Like what hour? If i know that. It would help a lot really.

Spurrlock.3219:

So is this where I QQ because I can’t use my brain powers to craft a build that competes with the ones from metabattle.com?

well to be honest. not every player can come up with builds to compete with the meta tough. it’s called a meta for a reason. even in proffesional circles meta’s are prevalant.

builds that can match the meta are a rarity. tough more power to you if you manage to find one. It prolly has taken you and all that succeeded some effort i guess.

Hello, Staff, members.

I prepurchased Heart of Thorns Ultimate edition. and the release date is getting close. I was wondering if we get any info on how to start the download of the expansion?

Do we get a mail to the link to a site? Or is it automatically updated?

Just wondering what the process will be.

A-net isn’t really forcing you to play this builds but to say that they have no influence whatsoever isn’t quite right either. They are constant balance changes and as of june 23 an complete overhaul. It thier balance changes which will naturally incite a reaction. Some balance changes can make entire trait line useless, some of them empower them. A-net is not completely blameless here. However it’s still your choice to not play the meta builds. Actually I don’t play with the meta. And used to play with the celestial shout guard pre jun 23 patch few weeks before. I might not be the first maby i am, but I consider myself one of the few that made it viable and allowed it to bunker and deal both decent damage at the same time, either way i consider it mine. Pre june 23 it was not seen around. that much and many guardians were often med guardians or ah bunker guardians.

I also have a friend that has a mesmer that gives even more boons then PU. and can somehow provide it’sparties with tons of boons. And yet be viable in PvP.

It’s not impossible to fight without meta builds. It’s just very hard to do so. And even if they are. builds on the same tier of the meta. They aren’t often showcased. Often due to our own choices to stay in the dark.

DavyMcB.1603:

There are only two classes that have access to reveal on base spec so far: ranger and engi. Each of them has 1 skill to reveal an enemy. Engi has traits but that means pigeonholing. Dragonhunter and Heralds have 1 each and again, it requires pigeonholing. Scrapper is the only spec that seems to be designed to counter stealth.

When a “mechanic” is so integral with the class and used abundantly, that means it’s time it’s important enough to REQUIRE a counter not be kept in an ivory tower deep in the nowhere forest. lol simple logic.

If anything we need MORE reveal. Every class should at least has a reveal. With a class that has plenty of shadowstep, blinds and dodge, relying solely on stealth for offense and defense is so passe and one dimensional. That playstyle needed to go 3 years ago.

U cannot be serious here? So it’s ok that we we all have resistance. to an engineer’s condi burst? Or perma reflect to ranger? No it’s stupid. U cannot justify kittening over an entire class because you think it shouldn’t be depedent on a core mechanic of a game. It’s a class meant to be stealthy by default. It’s not called a thief cause it’s an upfront arnold Schwarzenegger meathead warrior. Come on. You act as if thiefs have no counter whatsoever. U couldn’t be farther from the truth. Massive aoe singl burst damage, condi’s or immunity can get you very far. they are already squishy as hell. But now to actually take away their only viable way of defending? come on man. you act as if thiefs are constantly teleporting around spamming blind 24/7.

apharma.3741:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

man terrible, A net, Nerfing an intergral part of a thiefs sustain and dps., terrible. It’s like giving every class the ability to oneshot all ai with a 600 unit radius. effectively kittening over mesmers..

Is that sarcasm or not because if it wasn’t…well, I’m just speechless given how much AoE there is and how little health those clones have.

nope, i’m bieng real here. Unless you think the default attack of every class is AOE. it’s still pretty much a kitten u to mesmer if you can just kitten over every AI. in a 600 unit radius just like that. AOE is not the default way of figthing.

Anyways this is kittened. Like why the kitten come with such an anti thief ability? It makes no sense even in light of the extra dodges the daredevil gives. It’s wishfull thinking.

Seems like some secret nerf to thiefs again. Man I hope they better change thier kittening mind.

man terrible, A net, Nerfing an intergral part of a thiefs sustain and dps., terrible. It’s like giving every class the ability to oneshot all ai with a 600 unit radius. effectively kittening over mesmers. because more classes get more stealth? do you really think that thiefs are going to waste an entire traitline just to get more endurance? never tought a net would nerf such an essential mechanic to a class because of some elite specilisation. so basically don’t get hit or you are kittened. Good to know A-net. forcing thiefs into the specialsiation how transparent.

Chaith.8256:

Josh Davis.6015:

Just want to make sure the “devs” part of this thread was complete.

S Tier
Josh “Grouch” Davis

D Tier
Hugh “Nightmare” Norfolk

So cold.

hmmpf, Nightmare, quite an interesting nickname, so much hype lol. But then again Developer Hax. And he’s one of the pvp game designers if I’m not mistaken so i wager he’s actually a nigthmare to duel againsts and have teamfights with. I wonder if this name really means anything or if it’s just a mere tough name. tough he could be one of those developers that just creates al the stuff and leaves the testing to his colleagues?

Floplag.4032:

But there will always be complaints unless they hit the magic area where everyone is relatively equal in its own way, and I’ve never seen any game achieve that goal.

Players always complain, we are an ungrateful group if we don’t get our way or have it how we want it for the most part.

There are 2 kinds of complaints, the “i got nerfed” or “they got buffed and are stronger now against me”. In this case we are seeing both. So if EVERYONE is complaining, then it means that either they mostly got it right, or completely buggared it and i don’t think the latter is the case.

>Ok so you can see that they’re will Always be complaints.

Do you realise that this current ’’fix’’ is one out of several over the past years? and i mean fixes that one would generally consider huge? see that’s what makes no sense. u cannot have it mostly right if it stands a humongously big chance of having it changed completely. it makes no sense. even the seeing both part makes no sense. as it’s still dependent on you and me to determine wheter both parties has been pleased.

Some people are still complaining their buffs were to kittenty, and others are still complaining the nerfs aren’t enough. then there is also the group that hates excatly the same logic you are using. Just looking at both sides and then try to get a balance, while in the proffesion forums they are tons of people that actually would rather have the developers do extensive testing or write entire essay or have discussions about why a certain trait should be buffed or nerfed or changed.

It’s pretty much a King solomon mentality that you are applying here. which considering this is a community is something u cannot get around with. but i wouldn’t put any way to quantify it as bieng right, which goes into the realm of objectivity. it’s faulty logic. something isn’t right because most people agree. something is right if it can be fact checked.

What will you say if people find out that certain elite specialsations are taking way too much of an advantage cause the normal specialisations benefit them too much? what if this entire patch gets revamped just to deal with that?

Floplag.4032:

I think perhaps some of you missed my point or i might not have made it clear enough…

The point what that when you see complaining from both sides such as the meta classes complaining about Rangers and others complaining that some things were not nerfed enough, then the odds are good they got it right in general.

which i would agree with if, you could see a noticable decline in complaints or suggestions for buff or nerfs for maby an extended period of time. but the big issue here is that untill now, big changes will continue to be made based on the next ray of complaints. that’s why i cannot agree with this.

Floplag.4032:

Lordrosicky.5813:

So your experience tells you that when people say something sucks then it is infact amazing? interesting experiences you have!

Well, lets see…. “sucks” is objective. You think it sucks, others including myself don’t. The point is that when the reality is in the middle then they probably did it right.

I personally do not think this sucks, i think it made a lot of sense, too many things were very obviously OP and others significantly under powered or unwelcome in groups.

Did they perhaps overtune a couple things, maybe, time will tell. I think its a little silly to be judging rangers on a possible gimmick build but thats me. Was the nerf to Eles and Mesmers 100% required, common sense answers that one.

So please tell me what “sucks” in this patch in a manner that isnt crying about not having easy mode kills anymore?

not that i care too much about the current patch, since i use neither too much of any things that are hot in the current meta. But definately your premise is wrong. U cannot assume that if people complain and it get fixed according to thier complaint or the middle ground was found. As you later nuance it a bit. is still pretty much baseless. People will Always keep complaining about something else and sometimes they will even bring a bigger voice. mesmers and elementalist were the hot topic? before that it was the ranger,. So if people complain en masse about the current fix, does this mean the current complaints were wrong all the time? Sometimes things get revamped completely. throwing several builds out of the meta. there would definately not be any middleground there would thier be? BTW how do you define what is the middle ground of numerous of complaints, complaints which by itself are almost entirely subjective in nature. Bugs, and exploits are amongst one of the few complaints which can be fact checkked by everbody.

People are ranting about elementalists? well i’m one of those guys that pretty much enjoys the intense fight the with dagger, dagger ele and can manage ussually just fine, safe for those running diamond skin. it’s my opinion. as would it be one of them who oppose mine.

Basically the complaining will continue and the cycle of buffs and nerfs will keep going on. U honestly got nothing other then just appealing to popularity fallacy.

And considering HOT is right on the corner, the chances are pretty big that once again big changes will be coming.

Granted if, said balance patch actually kept the pvp community contend with for an extended period of time without weekly qq’s of anything whatsoever. then yes while still inherintely subjective. but then the title of the topic created would be less objectionable imo.

witcher.3197:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

hmm seems like they nerfed ele a bit. a huge portion of thier dps which was might stacking is pretty much gone. now that they can’t stack might while granting regen and protection and all other boons to themselves u will actually have an opening to strike them. now now ring that ring of fire burns you regardless of passing through it or not. finally rids you of having to stand there while you take thier burst. if they stil want thier insane dps uptime, they’d have to actually forgone the so called ‘’dreaded blinded ashes traitline’’ and go pyromancers puissance. this in turn actually is a big dent in their sustain.

So on top of a quite substantial dps nerf, their sustain is nerfed indirectly as well.

not that this matters to me tough. I honestly had no trouble with ele. but i definately would say this actually consitutes as an actual nerf.

DD ele was able to stack 25 might before they added the cantrip might trait – it’s just going to be slower, but as sustain’s still the same, outlasting isn’t an issue for them.

ah my bad, however my point still stands: might stacking is slower. which in turn would still indirectly affect thier overal sustain. as in they cannot apply as much pressure as quickly as before. imagine you bieng able to heal, but then on top of that ready your next dps burst much quicker. it’d be a neverending cycle of them bieng able to keep up the pressure while heal simultaneosly. this surpassed the guardians ability to block and stack might and burn on block. which is still an traitline dependent on said condition bieng filled. this nerf however would provide you with more of an opening. they cannot just go on thier water attunement anymore, heal up and get kittenloads of might stacks thanks to their cantrips. this time, if they need to heal they will actually be healing.

I still think that is a good nerf.

edit: it seems Sunshine is disagreeing about the 25 might stacks pre cantrip nerf. oh well, so i might be right on that account. however slower or non existent, it’s still quite a hit in their dps. and if Sunshine is right, they’’d potentially still have to forgoe the blinding ashes traitline which would affect their sustain indirectly.

hmm seems like they nerfed ele a bit. a huge portion of thier dps which was might stacking is pretty much gone. now that they can’t stack might while granting regen and protection and all other boons to themselves u will actually have an opening to strike them. now now ring that ring of fire burns you regardless of passing through it or not. finally rids you of having to stand there while you take thier burst. if they stil want thier insane dps uptime, they’d have to actually forgone the so called ‘’dreaded blinded ashes traitline’’ and go pyromancers puissance. this in turn actually is a big dent in their sustain.

So on top of a quite substantial dps nerf, their sustain is nerfed indirectly as well.

not that this matters to me tough. I honestly had no trouble with ele. but i definately would say this actually consitutes as an actual nerf.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

(my response is from a pvp perspective)

GOOD MESMER

• Have different ways to engage a fight.
• Can run multiple builds, but have one mastered.
• Knows PU isn’t as cheesy as everyone proclaims.
• Can fight other Mesmer confidently.

NOT SO GOOD MESMER

• Will spam their rotation immediately, usually starting with greatsword.
• Cannot land a shatter burst without sword (I’m somewhat guilty of this. xD)
• Random dodges all day. (again, me)
• Has trouble vs other Mesmer.
• Uses greatsword at close range.
• Always engages from stealth.. Literally. Always.
• Does not shatter! (Worse thing to do as a Mesmer on any build!)

---

What say you?

Then I’m somwhere inbetween a good mesmer and not so good mesmer. I can fight other mesmer, confidently, I don’t even use PU at all, infact PU to me is meh. I can run different builds, But haven’t actually masterd any of them. Well the thing is, I’m one of those guys that plays all classes decently. so it might be one of the reasons i’m not a good mesmer. Oh well, more fun in me bieng able to say that i can play with every class., I can fight differently. i can fight almost all classes and adapt but necro mancer. well it sucks cause i atm a condi build so tough kitten on me xD. I also think that a good mesmer should be able to timer thier interupts and shatters accordingly. Also sometimes it’s good not to shatter immeadatly if you want to stack up on either condi’s or just straight out damage, for example the phantasmal duelist(phantasm with a gun) is incredibly handy imo to have it stay alive. I don’t ever have a rotation. I just fight with what is needed at the moment.

i do think there is enough condi clear to deal with condi builds. I think the problem lies in not all players knowing how to deal with certain conditions. Running a shout warrior in a 1v1 fight is going to do jackkitten. But run an warrior with endure pain and berserker stance and the signet that gives a passive heal of 300 hp a second, combined with melandru runes and lemongrass and poultry soup and conditions will be a lot more managable. You are not supposed to run shouts withe a melee build. But often use passive condi reducing effects to deal with them for example. Stay on the offensive.

For example. the thing is not all classes are guardians or elementalist with utilities that allow to cure 2 or more condi’s with each go, neither to they have a strong passive heal.

With thief u can either run acrobatics or go with the shadowarts stealth uptime, allowing the condi’’s to fly off. But instead when it comes to thief it’s better to just be agressive and interupt and stuns.

All classes except the thief have viable ways of dealing with conditions. certain runes amplify certain class traits, the warrior has so much options that grant immunity or reduce the the condi duration that it’s better to actually go with stances and melandru runes then to play with direct condi clear for example.

Then add in the fact that condi builds while tankier and ignore armour actually often lack cc and more direct ways of damage.. they need to stack, they do not often just hit you with 2 to 3 k hits like that. neither do you get ragdolled all across the field. they burst only if they are able to stack condi’s on you. also condi builds really only have one way of damaging you. the moment they meet an anti condi build, they are boned, there was a thread in the pvp section in which people were complaining about the ele trait called diamond skin.

DPS builds often can deal an insane amount of damage unless they actually meat an bunker guard with kittenloads of blocks, altruistic healing and 3 k plus toughness for example. they are very bunker builds, Át this moment only the warrior, guardian and ele can actually bunker properly in general.

even if you run a build with 20 k+ hp and3 k plus toughness. the isnane ferocity and high precision combined with often some form of cc. still allows you to get bursted down.

Coronit.9432:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Cynz.9437:

Constant target dropping is the whole idea of stealth/clones…… let’s not make this game more braindead than it is already.

which i would be content with if it soley applied to just stealth and clones. But this goes father, pets, minons, other players, NPC’s. It’s ridiculous. I should lose my target cause i accidentaly grazed a kitten raptor in a wvw match.

Good thing that doesn’t happen then. The only time something akin to that happens is when you have auto-target on (turn it off, dummy) and your target stealths.

It does not happen when you are fighting someone and accidentally hit something else. You don’t change targets that way. Try not clicking on the guy that’s right in front of you. You really shouldn’t be left-clicking anything in combat unless you want that as your target.

turn of autotargeting? If did that, I’d be even more boned. Did you read the OP? In such fast paced game with multiple targets figthing without autotarget would be hell. I’m not clicking on anything else. It’s just the kitten auto target which forefully switches targets for me without my consent which really the best out of two worse things. I honestly don’t see why this is even defended? I’m not saying mesmers or thiefs should have a permenant lock on. I just don’t won’t have to use rocket science to cope with losing my own target. which shouldn’t kittening happen unless stealth or clones. Or a skill meant to confuse you. It’s ridiculous.

Autotargeting completely screws you ability of having control over yout actions. For example you want to get away in order to retreat or kite, using the heartseeker on theif, you definitily DON´T want to automatic target the enemy you want to get away from and heartseeker into him. I think I have everything turned off from the options where autotargeting is, except the last one (don´t demember exactly what it
is, something about locking ground-target indicators at max-range.).
Have you adjusted your keybinds? If not please do it. Its a must for gw2-pvp (for all kind of pvp).
Is it maybe a problem of reaction or being overstrained by everything flying around in pvp? Then its probably just a l2p issue and should resolve itself when playing the game more

Last thing… turn off autotargeting. Every guide on options and keybindings for pvp recomend it for reason…

Oh don’t worry about my skills mate. I’m actually pretty kitten stronk. I don’t lose often in 1 v1 or group skirmishes. I’m one of the few people that don’t have that much trouble with dagger, dagger ele’s and current mesmers. I can also Always retreat provided i have the appropiate class and skill list, aka mesmer, thief or warrior. And it’s definately not a reaction thing either. the problem that grinds my gears is that i can actually see where the ranger , or minion necro is going. I can even predict stealth moves and dodge in advance without waisting my endurance It’s me losing my target for some reason. while i see that kitten player walking away. thinking to myself, I could have gotten him earlier, which is something i say more often then kitten , I could have gotten him. Figthing without auto targeting is worse. where sometimes I’m right infront of said target, and I still miss.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Cynz.9437:

Constant target dropping is the whole idea of stealth/clones…… let’s not make this game more braindead than it is already.

which i would be content with if it soley applied to just stealth and clones. But this goes father, pets, minons, other players, NPC’s. It’s ridiculous. I should lose my target cause i accidentaly grazed a kitten raptor in a wvw match.

Good thing that doesn’t happen then. The only time something akin to that happens is when you have auto-target on (turn it off, dummy) and your target stealths.

It does not happen when you are fighting someone and accidentally hit something else. You don’t change targets that way. Try not clicking on the guy that’s right in front of you. You really shouldn’t be left-clicking anything in combat unless you want that as your target.

turn of autotargeting? If did that, I’d be even more boned. Did you read the OP? In such fast paced game with multiple targets figthing without autotarget would be hell. I’m not clicking on anything else. It’s just the kitten auto target which forefully switches targets for me without my consent which really the best out of two worse things. I honestly don’t see why this is even defended? I’m not saying mesmers or thiefs should have a permenant lock on. I just don’t won’t have to use rocket science to cope with losing my own target. which shouldn’t kittening happen unless stealth or clones. Or a skill meant to confuse you. It’s ridiculous.

Cynz.9437:

Constant target dropping is the whole idea of stealth/clones…… let’s not make this game more braindead than it is already.

which i would be content with if it soley applied to just stealth and clones. But this goes father, pets, minons, other players, NPC’s. It’s ridiculous. I should lose my target cause i accidentaly grazed a kitten raptor in a wvw match.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

I have to agree, targetting is such an chore. I completely believe that stealth, Or player moving far enought out of your reach should warrant you not bieng able to target them and you should have to retarget. However yeah the targeting bussiness is either very complicated or just outright annoying. Appearantly even with hitting tab, u stand a chance of targeting a clone. It’s a chore. It does sometimes suck losing fights to rangers, necro’s or mesmers because u spend half of the fight trying to target the right player. I honestly wonder why it’s so kitten complicated.

Like i seriously wonder what is so hard for an target to actually keep the target on said target untill you choose to change? it’s ridiculous. that even with said tab button u only stand a decent chance of hitting the right person. Well mesmers can prolly get a pass here. But i feel the auto targeting system can definately be shaved up.

Rangers and Necros are easy. Mesmers are the only profession where Tab targeting has a chance of hitting a non-player because clones are supposed to be confusing.

That said, for stealth-happy foes, call target on them when they’re visible. When they unstealth, just hit ’t" and you have them locked again.

Rangers aren’t that easy. in the heat of the battle un targeting and then pressing tab again while dealing with taunt or perhaps figthing multiple players which, makes again the tab button not really that much of an viable option. Granted the tab button might offer some help but in all reality. targetting the nearest foe is one heck of a hassle. in such a fast paced games where players move everywhere, and where it’s pretty much an guarantee that you lose your target is not viable. I can see mesmers as having a pass on this issue. but sorry. I don’t see what’s so great of bieng in a teamfight and focusing on a necro or ranger, and then a warrior walks infront of you. U cleave him by accident, And then your target is gone? Tab would only offer a decent solution in battle. But the very fact that you can just lose your target in the first place due to a game mechanic and not a mesmer clone or some stealth is absolutely ridiculous.

Losing a target in a middle of a fight is a very big deal really, waisting cd’s due to a game mechanic, kittening up team tactics due to a game mechanic. You shouldn’t be able to go through so many curves just cause of a game mechanic.

Just think about this. Let’s say u are IRL. Get jumped by 3 guys. U are figthing for your life. You manage to nearly knock one out. Then some fat guy walks infront of you and you accidentaly graze him with your foot. And bam, Your fist get’s magically redirected to the fat guy. Allowing the guy that was staggering and is stuggeling not to lose conciousness to recover and bam 3 v 1 again.

This is what targeting in GW2 is basically.

I have to agree, targetting is such an chore. I completely believe that stealth, Or player moving far enought out of your reach should warrant you not bieng able to target them and you should have to retarget. However yeah the targeting bussiness is either very complicated or just outright annoying. Appearantly even with hitting tab, u stand a chance of targeting a clone. It’s a chore. It does sometimes suck losing fights to rangers, necro’s or mesmers because u spend half of the fight trying to target the right player. I honestly wonder why it’s so kitten complicated.

Like i seriously wonder what is so hard for an target to actually keep the target on said target untill you choose to change? it’s ridiculous. that even with said tab button u only stand a decent chance of hitting the right person. Well mesmers can prolly get a pass here. But i feel the auto targeting system can definately be shaved up.

ASP.8093:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Well and I was so proud about my mantra mesmer. Well back to the drawing board I guess.

Honestly, I think the build’s still playable. The problem is that it “feels” icky now. Mantras have gone from being clunky to having one of the most pleasant “flows” of anything in the game back to being their old clunky selves. ‘Cept now we’ve all seen the alternative and they are monstrously, horrifically clunky in our eyes instead.

Yeah I realised this. Hence I wrote in an edit. Yeah I was getting sloppy with mesmer and kittened around too much. But now u need be a bit more skillfull again. It’s going to take some time trying to not get that many cd’s in the game I’m glad I have a kittenload of condi cleanses stealth and stunbreakers. Guess I cannot stack stealth again for the lulz and instead will have to use a few stealth when i have too many cooldowns. I think we will see a more defensive plays. guess this nerf isn’t that bad. It’s a wake up call.

But yeah you’re right. we used to get a bones with a bit of meat hanging. Then A net gave an entire Turkey. And now we are back to bones.

sigh

My mantra’s ah kitten . this sucks balls, This really sucks. Mantra’s already have a long cast time. Like casting them in battle, would ussually need you to be in stealth mode. Or you had to be Lucky. The casting of mantra’s itself either had you waster your stealth or left you open. I actually thought the way it worked was fine. i never knew it was a ’’bug’’. Now do I not only have worry about. kitten more cooldowns to worry about.

Well and I was so proud about my mantra mesmer. Well back to the drawing board I guess.

edit: Lol wait a minute, I Always fought like this pre patch. Well, guess timing and keeping track of you cooldowns is essential.

Thiefz.3695:

The reality is that most people are average players. They want to login, do some fights, and have fun. They are solo queue or sometimes premade. However the low threshold for the build + the high success of the build requires far more coordination and play than most people have. This was akin to the turret engi issue. Anytime you have a class that is low skill rotation but a high success with a difficult counter, you will hear cries of OP.

The key is can you balance around average players while allowing for higher ceilings for talented players?

And for that reason. I’m asking people to stick together. reach out and stuff. Which a few did, I’m gratefull for that but, the majority seem to think that I’m just some A-net asskisser that thinks everything is fine as it is. No I’m not some tough love kind of kitten. Infact I too are but a mere average player. At this moment I’m having a friend experiment with necromancer in pvp. And he will soon reveal his build. I will get back to him.

The last sentence is definately something that me think. I’m not sure this is the correct answer but. It seems certain classes like ele’s, necro’s and mesmers are generally percieved to be harder to use classes. One could perhaps make the more likely traits to be used for a potentially strong build, Harder to apply in battle. For example as phantom said. ‘’Only stun when dazed’’ u would still have an ’’OP’’ build but it would be reserved for the people with higher skill caps. U’d kinda have less OP builds running around. But then people will complain that mesmer is too kittening hard to use. the’re are also the average people who might not have a build centered around a certain type of mesmer for example cc- interupt mesmer but due to certain traits bieng now much harder to use. People might find the mesmer completely unusable. the thing is. OP builds while OP still often have quite a lot of traits the majority of players use.

An other way would be for the majority of players to actually know, more and more about the classes and builds that are in the spotlight. If the unknown becomes common knowledge. People will adapt and thus the ’’op’’ builds will be common. And so forth and so forth. Making it harder to jump over that treshold.

Even so, I not intended to focus on balance. U did indeed asked a very good question. I have to give credit where credit is due.

Nassau.6713:

I refer you to my previous post which you didn’t understand at all, so …. the end

Yes the end. Because it’s not that you strawmanned me by saying that I’m against any nerf whatsoever right? Or that that I’m asking the community to not use overpowered builds?

No, You like most of the people that replied couldn’t kittening be decent enough to actually do what I’m asking of you. No you had to do the same thing there are litterally dozens of threads about in the pvp section for some kittening reason, which is your freedom. Sure but don’t expect me to not reply to people wrongfully pretending like I’m some A-net asskisser that is against any nerfs or balance change whatsoever. Espically since most of you haven’t even tried out what I suggesed. Pretty easy to talk about nerfs right? While all in all, I’m just asking for the mesmers and elemantalists to reach out and other builds that are supposedly OP. I’ve proven that builds are OP based on a strawman, don’t make me laugh.

BadMed.3846:

Absolutely pointless post. When you don’t PvP much what are you going on about? You are simply trying to tell us to not complain about the imbalance and issues created by recent patch. Surely, raging is not the answer, but alerting the developers to the fact that certain elements are making a class OP is perfectly reasonable. Please don’t tell me that Burning is just fine. Class balance is required to make the game an enjoyable experience for everyone.

It is not about builds, it is about balance!

Wait how in the world can you twist this around? It’s very fact that a regular Joe like me, not only me, but friends, and people I play against, Even on this forums while not the majority they are posters who simply don’t agree with most of the nerfs the community is crying out about.. I tough I made myself clear,time and time again. I’m not against nerfs by default. I’m against unneeded huge shaving as a result of community QQ. You all know that a meta is bound to be created and that only a set amount of builds with certain ‘’sub-evolutions’’ of builds will be viable and form the new meta. This is nothing new. I’m asking all of you to actually come together, from both sides and atleast kittening try to come with a kittening solution. A-Net doesn’t hand out nerfs like it’s nothing so it’s going to take some time. And when they do come with nerfs, that include major damage shavings. It will not simply affect mesmers and elementalists. No it will affect all of you. They are tons of people ranting about guardians, warriors, mesmers, elementalists. All kittening classes are bieng ranted upon. Maby something is too weak, Or maby something is too strong. Do you know what’s going to happen? Another kittening pvp section full with QQ about how something is Too kittening OP or too underpowered.

So what am I doing. I thought: Hey, I’m not having so much trouble with the new balance changes, my friends aren’t having so much trouble with the new balance changes, Posters here on this very forum seem to disagree with most of the nerf suggestions or balance suggestions. Why not have those people come forward and showcase thier builds, And as a community we dicuss new builds. You know actually bieng positive for a change and work together instead of we vs them. People actually were so kittening creative to actually make the term Warrior an insult for kitten’s sake. Warriors bieng analagous for QQ’ers. But no, you and most of it missed the point or weren’t receptive for that and turned this thread into another QQ thread. Arguing about balance for the severalth kittening time. Couldn’t even take the time to actually give this thing a chance. While they are several kittening threads in which you could do this. Infact they are bieng created as they speak.

And don’t try to pass this off as me not giving you guys the chance to voice your opinions because I’m now simply voicing mine.

Nassau.6713:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Nassau.6713:

If you want nothing nerfed, then you don’t want anything buffed either and therefore everything is totally balanced. Since everything is balanced then, why do you want to discuss special strategies of dealing with certain builds? It should be as clear as the balance on how to deal with everything.

Because there is a difference in having balanced classes and builds. There is Always a certain meta or group of builds that are viable. or that counter other builds.

Balance by definition=/=equal builds. in games such as these there is Always a certain kind of meta or group of builds with several branches of said builds that are viable in the competetive scene. I feel that the problems lies more with builds, then actual balancing. I feel most of the issues can be resolved by looking creating builds appropiate with the most recent balance patch. Builds that do not get you 50 frigging stacks of burning rewarding you with 50 k burn damage, or somehow bieng required to use 2 or 3 people to kill a single elementalist. or getting 20 k mesmer bursted just like that or somehow bieing at the mercy of constant stuns. even tough the average mesmer has 2 to 3 daze’s and maby 1 perhaps 2 additional cc skills. spread over 2 weapon sets. When i hear stories like that i think this goes beyond simple balance issues.

I’m not against balance, I’m agains unneeded balance due lots of QQ: nerf classes in full, and stuff like that. people suggest for mesmer to not even have stealth. That’s like asking for a warrior to not use a friggin hammer. Or like a guardian to not use aegis.

I’m against ridiculous shavings like that.

BTW why are you guys doing the very kitten thing I wish to prevent? So far only 2 other people volunteerd to showcase thier builds.

Your words —--> “I feel that the problem lies more with builds” … “I feel most of the issues can be resolved by looking creating builds appropiate with the most recent balance patch” … let me see if i understand correctly since your english is far from perfect … the solution is to ….nerf? or should the community do ANET’s work and DELIBERATELY pick builds to play that are NOT overpowered? In BOTH cases, you prove that the builds/classes/game/whatever you want to call it, is hugely imbalanced. And rightly so, since it is NOT chess. But also rightly so, the community is asking for NERFS.

Dude listen, I’m not asking anybody to do to do A-net’s work. I’m asking you and anybody else to adapt. that’s all. A net made balance changes, No this was a complete overhaul, of the pvp scene, no, not just the pvp scene, pve and wvw as well. If that’s case you cannot merely expect the classes to work in the excact same way they did pre patch right? So what do you have to do? U start from scratch and create builds that allow you to function with this patch. It has already begun, A new meta is bieng created right before our very eyes, as we are speaking. I will again go to the examples such as getting 50 kittening stacks of burning or, getting perma stunned 20 k bursted by mesmers. That in my eyes is something that lies on you mostly. I’m not asking the burn guardians or mesmers tone down thier builds, No I’m asking them to communicate with the players that feel that they are going down under the weight and perhaps discuss the possibility of new builds capable of bieng viable in the current pvp scene, even against mesmers and elementalists. Who I for the love of god can’t see what the big problem is with.

And How the hell do I prove that the builds are overpowered? U are picking and choosing here, It’s circular reasoning. The question here is. Overpowered Builds or Is your build simply not good enough,? Bluntly said ofcourse. And not meant to be an insult. When you know that post patch burns are now intensity stacked and conditions as a whole are easier to apply. U actually do something about it. Not try the same thing you did as before and expect it to work? Then don’t come crying about 50 stacks of burning when A-Net announced this already. You all knew things were gonna change.

And asking for mesmers to not have stealth, or 25 to sometimes even 50 kittening percent damage shaving on runes or mesmer shatter. Is something I will never agree. So don’t come with this rightfully asking for nerfs. Some or most of them are just ridiculous and sometimes aren’t even constructive but litterally a rant thread. Not even explaining how stuff needs to be nerfed. No sorry I cannot get behind that. And that is the majority of threads u see floating around here. Yes that is righteous.

Nassau.6713:

If you want nothing nerfed, then you don’t want anything buffed either and therefore everything is totally balanced. Since everything is balanced then, why do you want to discuss special strategies of dealing with certain builds? It should be as clear as the balance on how to deal with everything.

Because there is a difference in having balanced classes and builds. There is Always a certain meta or group of builds that are viable. or that counter other builds.

Balance by definition=/=equal builds. in games such as these there is Always a certain kind of meta or group of builds with several branches of said builds that are viable in the competetive scene. I feel that the problems lies more with builds, then actual balancing. I feel most of the issues can be resolved by looking creating builds appropiate with the most recent balance patch. Builds that do not get you 50 frigging stacks of burning rewarding you with 50 k burn damage, or somehow bieng required to use 2 or 3 people to kill a single elementalist. or getting 20 k mesmer bursted just like that or somehow bieing at the mercy of constant stuns. even tough the average mesmer has 2 to 3 daze’s and maby 1 perhaps 2 additional cc skills. spread over 2 weapon sets. When i hear stories like that i think this goes beyond simple balance issues.

I’m not against balance, I’m agains unneeded balance due lots of QQ: nerf classes in full, and stuff like that. people suggest for mesmer to not even have stealth. That’s like asking for a warrior to not use a friggin hammer. Or like a guardian to not use aegis.

I’m against ridiculous shavings like that.

BTW why are you guys doing the very kitten thing I wish to prevent? So far only 2 other people volunteerd to showcase thier builds.

Till now, nobody seems to have tested my build or commented on it, I haven’t been asked to play a few duels, or asked to play in a few matches. No questions asked whatsoever.

Guys I’m trying to give you guys an hand in here. this build seems to be working for me. Test it out, ask questions, point out it’s flaws.

The’re several threads in which u can whine. let’s be positive for a change.

I’m on EU server btw(Seafarers Rest)

warherox.7943:

Just because you can counter something doesn’t mean that it’s balanced.

But if you are countering the very thing that is supposed to be ’’OP’’ if you get rid of the thing that is such a dread it kinda doesn’t become OP anymore. If more people with unorthodox builds or non meta builds provide builds capable of countering the mesmer and elementalist, while at the same time don’t have a massive inherent advantage over other classes. Such as mine guardian which simply get’s his face kicked in by cc orientated axe/shield warrior with berserker stance. The opinion will change, I know they are more people that actually have sucesses against rampage warriors, burn guardians, mesmers and elementalists. And thier builds do no nessisarily need to be focused solely on countering the meta if you can call it a meta at that. But they simply are viable. thier win-rate post and pre patch hasn’t changed drastically.

Browrain.7346:

All the Mesmer qq is delicious. Let me drink your tears.

Not very constructive, I understand that it might be frustrating to see the same whine fest happening in a thread specifically not meant to happen. However i take it you are a mesmer. Well instead of getting another kitten nerf that is unneeded. We are better off actually looking at said problem. Clearly you disagree with most of the ’QQ’’ I do so as well. But bieng all defensive is not going to change anything. The masses are simply going to keep asking for nerfs, And it will happen. There start from scratch with a major balance fix, While those guys who can counter people who are indeed mesmers could have done something about it. Those with viable non meta builds, sometimes even unorthodox did nothing.

Hello thiefs, can I get you to atleast take a look to the following thread?:https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Nerf-this-nerf-that-1/first#post5308483

Mesmers and elementalists, I know you aren’t obliged to do this. But if are viewing this thread and main them in pvp, or atleast have a decent understanding of the class. Show us your builds. let’s bring them on display. Instead of waging a war. We are better off changing the minds of others and maby prevent misinformation bieng spread and become the next kitten necromancers. which is relative but it’s generally considered a heavily nerfed class, not something i agree with in full but then again, i don’t play necro often.

Well I’m gonna show you the guardian build that i mainly play with. I’m not gonna be one of those guys anymore that says L2P. And do nothing. No instead i will reveal my builds, something i did not intent on doing so. but guess it has to happen

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAsf7dlsAhWhYtQwfHQQEH1DldCOhDFPE3XUcDgF9FA-TJxHwADeCA62fAwJBoYZAA

This is my build. I call it well uh: An all arounder guardian, It can do everything. pretty much. I will give a short explanation but, I’m willing to answer questions or concerns that might arise. If you are on an eu server, u can even fight me provided both of us have time to test it out and see it for yourself. Or even do a few pvp matches together with me as an ally^^

Most of it’s damage, not the majority comes from burns. If I had to divide the damage. I’d say 60 percent burn, 40 percent regular damage.

I often start up my attack witht the scepter and the f1 virtue and bait a dodge with smite. After that i catch them with chains of light. And use focus skill 4 if fear my enemy can out dps me.

After that i switch to sword torch. And use torch skill numebr 4 on myself. I teleport using sword skill number 2. then burn them and release torch skill number.4. this is my opening combo ussually.

In terms of defence, I often use my shelter prematurely to stack burning, sword skill number 3 i use often when figting rangers or mesmers, and finnally shield of wrath when on half health.

My healing comes from AH mainly and all shouts convert conditons into boons. and considering the current meta which supports conditons, i get plenty of healing. the sigil of energy also quite helps as i heal for a nice 400 hp per roll.

I’ve find to have trouble with medidation guardians,heavy dps/cc in general heavy cc orientated warriors, hammer, shield/axe is a pain to deal with espically when running berserker stance, half of my dps is cut in half. Also celestial elementalist with diamond skin. is a killer for me. Considering my base attack is just 1560. I’d sometimes spend a good 2 min getting thier hp down to below 90 percent for my attacks to have an affect. they are beatable. but out of my head, from my findings. Heavy cc combined with dps is a deal breaker, anti condi builds are also a deal breaker.

Anyways this is just a short summary. I’m willing to answer questions and if time allows it. even duel or do a few pvp matches together so that you can actually see the build in action. naturally u can test it yourself as well. I encourage everybody who doesn’t suffer from the current post past balance changes to do this. show the builds that allow you to function as ya did pre patch.

Nerf mesmer, nerf elementalist, nerf burn, nerf rampage, nerf engineers, Nerf everything.

Guys can we just all calm down. and rather discuss how to counter those supposedly OP builds? Can we make a thread in which we dedicate it to discussions of builds and showcase how to counter the current meta? Instead of just crying nerf, Because for the Love of it. I really cannot fathom what the problem is. Mesmers became just a tad bit stronger post patch, elementalist are noticably stronger in terms of damage sustain but still beatable. And the thing is. I’m just rank 60 plus, my winrate is still roughly 50/50. I’m not an high tier player. I do not frequently do pvp. My friends who run warrior, necromancer, ranger do not get thier kitten stomped in. And when they do use the OP classes such as mesmer and elementalist, they still regularly lose to warriors, guardians, rangers. So are we just that good? Or do we all happen to constantly fight against noobs? Or are we just average players who fight players at a variety of levels? We also aren’t a premade team.

The last option seems to be the most plausible. I just don’t get it. When people say how they got 50 kittening k of burn ticks, or got a 20 k burst of mesmer, and got constantly stunned. Or cannot catch the mesmer or lock them down at all,Or somehow can’t kill an elementalist with even 2 or 3 people on point. My question is: What the kitten are you guys doing? Do you not run any condi cleanses, do you not run any resistance or berserker stance? Do you not have any runes that diminish cond duration? Do you not convert condi’s into boons? Do you not have any cc or lockdowns? no immobilize? no chill, weakness or cripple? Do you guys just stand there and take it? Do guys not retreat or go out of line of sight? No you guys cannot all be this bad. I take it the majority of players are just players just like me that play pvp from time to time, maby with friends sometimes.

Yet I and the people I acosiate with, not just friends but also enemiy player, or people i see on hotjoin. aren’t suffering from those 50 k burnthings, perma stealth or a 20 k mesmer burst. or perma blind.

So what do i think that the problem is? The problem mainly lies within the builds. I’m not calling the meta perfect because i’ve seen people who come with constructive critism. for example people suggesting for diamond skin to be resistance based, or perhaps removing stability from rampage. Capping stealth to 5 seconds. I may not agree with all of them. These kind of critisms are way different then idiots actually wishing for a mesmer to not use stealth or to nerf a kitten class in full. I do not want for A-net to be given misinformation and go in with over the top nerfs or balance changes when it’s not needed. Changes like that are quite expensive as they affect the whole game, not just pvp.

So this is what I propose. We showcase our builds. No matter what side you are on. dicuss it weaknesses, it’s pro’s and cons how it stacks up to other classes. I mainly want to classes that are generally considered to suffer from the current ’’meta’’ classes or builds that have trouble with mesmer and elemtalists you are free to join. I welcome every class. Rampage warriors come on out.

Also inb4 i get called out on bieng a mesmer that get’s carried by his build. Well no. Í main guardian as a first, engineer as a sec and mesmer as 3rd option. I have nothing to hide.

Well I will start. And showcase my celestial hybrid guardian.

I’m reaching out to you guys. I’m even willing to test my build against yours, tell u my weaknesses and everything. Spread the word guys. Instead of me bieng a ’’L2P’’ scrub, I will now open myself to scrutiny. and hopefully we can change the community for the better.^^

the meta is fine as it is. Just don’t focus to much on zerking, have a bit more condi cleanse or resistance, and have a few stunbreaks and atleast one stability skill. The meta as it is seems to lean now towards hybrid builds.