Guild Wars 2

Well I’m Multi classer so I don’t really have the favourite class.

I’m happy with mesmer espically now that I have experienced with a might stacking chronoshatter power mesmer. to me those new amulets kinda pave the way for possible dps support mesmers. I’d say there is a decent amount of build diversity

I’m happy with warriors, even if the condi variant is supereme over the power variant. However as above the new amulets opend the way for perma might strength power warriors to be back thanx to thier incredibly long resistance uptime. I noticed bieng less dependent on discipline now.

I’m happy with DH. Prior to this patch I already played with 3 variants aka the DH, Bunker, The medi trapper and the Burn builds. While the last one is not quite there. It’s definately viable at lower plays.

I got no problems with thiefs. U can run staff, venomshare, dagger pistol. I wish they’d slightly increase thier 1 v 1 potential however. thiefs still play an vital role in the game.

I’m however iffy with tempest. Not really sure if the removal of cleric was such an good idea on top of the nerfs. I’d rather have them rework cleric and lower the healing power instead. from 1000 to 560 instead. Heck they could introduce a dumb stat like expertise to fill in the 1050 point stat instead. U can make it viable with Menders somewhat.However the big problem is that sustain was nerfed without buffing dps options.

I think A-net just dropped the ball. By switcing DH with tempest. I guess in the grand scheme of things it’s not terrible but definately annoying.

Xillllix.3485:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Mr Godlike.6098:

Personally i would prefer Toughness version of mender like this:
+1050 Power
+1050 Precision
+560 Toughness
+560 Healing Power

more dps, less tanky, less supportive but still supportive, more bruiser style like rest of meta

It would probably be deemed to OP as elementalist have thier fire and air oveloads which already dealt decent damage with cleric amulet. Adding 1050 precision aka 54 percent crit chance would prolly havet this amulet removed in no time. It’s a stronger version of the cleric amulet which was already deemed to OP. Not that I agree tough cleric is fine to me, but it seems A-net is extremely carefull with support amulets. It’s for that reason they gave us absolute kittening garbage like Diviners and Seekers amulet.

They’d rather give us support amulets without any form of sustain then an bruiser amulet. Heck nobody uses palladins amulet other then then scrapper who has the boons to make use of it.

The nature of the elementalist is celestial. They can play all they want trying to force the class into total bunker or total burst, but it will just never work well with the new trait system.

When they removed celestial they removed all the build variety that was left for the elementalist. It was a disastrous mistake on their part, but certainly not the first one they made.

And what will that solve? nothing? U will get the same QQ you got last years about elementalists bieng able to do a jack of all trades.Undying, yet deal damaga and at the same time support the group.

You are better off. trying to bring an bruiser amulet with a bit less self sustain then to go back to celestial amulet.

ie replace the toughness with vitality and the precision with concentration.

Xillllix.3485:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Mr Godlike.6098:

Personally i would prefer Toughness version of mender like this:
+1050 Power
+1050 Precision
+560 Toughness
+560 Healing Power

more dps, less tanky, less supportive but still supportive, more bruiser style like rest of meta

It would probably be deemed to OP as elementalist have thier fire and air oveloads which already dealt decent damage with cleric amulet. Adding 1050 precision aka 54 percent crit chance would prolly havet this amulet removed in no time. It’s a stronger version of the cleric amulet which was already deemed to OP. Not that I agree tough cleric is fine to me, but it seems A-net is extremely carefull with support amulets. It’s for that reason they gave us absolute kittening garbage like Diviners and Seekers amulet.

They’d rather give us support amulets without any form of sustain then an bruiser amulet. Heck nobody uses palladins amulet other then then scrapper who has the boons to make use of it.

The nature of the elementalist is celestial. They can play all they want trying to force the class into total bunker or total burst, but it will just never work well with the new trait system.

When they removed celestial they removed all the build variety that was left for the elementalist. It was a disastrous mistake on their part, but certainly not the first one they made.

And what will that solve? nothing? U will get the same QQ you got last years about elementalists bieng able to do a jack of all trades.Undying, yet deal damaga and at the same time support the group.

You are better off. trying to bring an bruiser amulet with a bit less self sustain then to go back to celestial amulet.

ie replace the toughness with vitality and the precision with concentration.

Mr Godlike.6098:

Personally i would prefer Toughness version of mender like this:
+1050 Power
+1050 Precision
+560 Toughness
+560 Healing Power

more dps, less tanky, less supportive but still supportive, more bruiser style like rest of meta

It would probably be deemed to OP as elementalist have thier fire and air oveloads which already dealt decent damage with cleric amulet. Adding 1050 precision aka 54 percent crit chance would prolly havet this amulet removed in no time. It’s a stronger version of the cleric amulet which was already deemed to OP. Not that I agree tough cleric is fine to me, but it seems A-net is extremely carefull with support amulets. It’s for that reason they gave us absolute kittening garbage like Diviners and Seekers amulet.

They’d rather give us support amulets without any form of sustain then an bruiser amulet. Heck nobody uses palladins amulet other then then scrapper who has the boons to make use of it.

no, no, no, no and no

Ok so appearantly, Cleric and celestial amulet were deemed to tanky. So I was thinking of having amulets that support a more bruiserish gameplay, but at the same time are tanky enough to not spend all of thier skills on self sustain.

So these are the following suggestions

Templar Amulet:

1050 Power
1050 Healing Power
560 toughness
560 Concentration

If the above is still to tanky

Monk’s Amulet:

1050 Power
1050 Concentration
560 toughness
560 precision

Priest’s Amulet

1050 power
1050 concentration
560 vitality
560 precision

Saint’s Amulet

1050 Precision
1050 Concentration
560 Vitality
560 Ferocity

Prophet’s Amulet

1050 Precision
1050 Concentration
560 toughness
560 Ferocity

Dwayna’s Amulet

1050 Power
1050 Concentration
560 Vitality
560 Healing Power

All amulets aside from the first and the last have none of the following combinations. Toughness and Vitality, Toughness and Healing Power. Vitality and Healing power. The last amulet is a glorified menders amulet with less healing power no precision. And it’s not like DH bunker incorperated much of protection or regenration anyways. However vitality and or toughness is still a stat I believe is needed if one needs to play support. And elementalist or support guard cannot make use of the current saints or diviners amulet without a bit of help due to thir low healthpool and mediocore armour in the guardians case. Not much use if a support class can’t even sustain it self properly against a single thief or revenant.

U can argue for mesmers to make use of said amulets due to thier high mobility, stealth, teleports and invulnerability. It also helps that u can double shatter witih continuum split and stack might. An herald could potentially make use of seekers and or diviners as well. But both classes have the active sustain to atleast not die in an 1 v 1 with a snap of one finger if u are atleast half decent and has the sustain to atleast surive a single focused group burst by either disengaging, blocks, evade etc.

However if u give said amulets even a bit of help through a single added sustain stat aka toughness, vitality or healing in combination with concentration. U will have more options for support builds. And they can still be spiked down by either power or condi bomb. Espically with Revs, Chronophantasma shatters and Macebow around. U won’t see many support classes tanking 1 v 3 indefinately this way.

Jourdelune.7456:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Maby if one refines the build to have more access to swiftness and mobility, u can have a roamer that+1’s kinda like the power shatter chronomancer.

still looking into it. I have not entirely given up on it.

Rune of radiance?

that’s not actually an bad idea. u’d be incredibly squishy but then again it doesn’t really matter if your role is to +1.

The thing that I just realised is that I never had a problem with people calling this class OP or certain mechanic OP in other games. In all honesty while i find the DH complaints completely stupid, the problem lies in the fact that one that screams the loudest wins and or if they do decide to listen. they Always go kittening overboard, ie removing clerics+nerfing sustain on tempest. So even if u could justify a nerf. It’s Always some kittened action u can only scratch your head by, then they justify it by them buffing skills and traits u would never use. But yeah we got told that the pvp team has almost no impact on the balance changes other then nerfing, runes amulets and or sigils. So yeah, this makes cries for nerfs incredibly kittening dangerous. As every kittening nerf action can be done in such an hard way only.

Honestly if I knew developers had atleast 3 split balance teams or wouldn’t cave to this mob mentality. Said complains wouldn’t bother me so much. In the end they still have the right to spout thier stupid bullkitten. It’s developers reactions which in the end are the real culprit. Doesn’t mean that i’m completely fine with them tough.

I tried a similar build OP. this build is very dps like. tried fire, earth tempest. got perma might and perma protection. and this build opening burst is insane espically with warhorn, provided u catch them by surprise. however its very mediocore 1 v 1’s. the perma protection cannot account for the low hp, lack of healing power and toughness against a hard focus. or any burst, while the sustain is suprisingly high given the amulet stats, prolly a bit tankier then thief and similar to a DH i guess. the problem is that when focused u will have to blow all your cd’s to survive and even then u might get 0-100 if not payign attention by a thief or DH.

Maby if one refines the build to have more access to swiftness and mobility, u can have a roamer that+1’s kinda like the power shatter chronomancer.

still looking into it. I have not entirely given up on it.

mrauls.6519:

Hey guys Why don’t we relax a bit?

I think the main traps people have an issue with are the elite and the whirling one. Combined together, they can seriously hurt you if you don’t have a block or stability…

Just give it time. Builds/people will adjust… Like I’ve had to, season after season…

I’m just getting a bit tired, after hearing. DH this, DH that constantly i guess.

kitten.5862:

Xillllix.3485:

There is no point trying to convince people that DH is overpowered. People do not understand that damage should be proportional to how easy or difficult it is to play a class.

The simple fact that in most games there is more DH than any other classes proves it. It’s the easiest and most rewarding class to play.

and there’s no point trying to convince people on these forums that all they have to do is learn to play or play a build that’s more faceroll. The fact is that DH isn’t the easiest class in the game, not even close. People probably thought that until they had to actually play it because it’s viable now, but I really doubt people think it’s easier than a scrapper spamming skills off cd or a revenant who has to press 3 2 F1 ~ 5 for 25k+ damage and just random dodge every 5s for passive perma stab. Then you have druids and warrs… literally just spam stuff off cd. DH is probably one of the most calculated builds in the meta right now. Get over it if youre at such a low tier that the ones who press every button on their bar in 3 seconds can kill you. l2p

quoted for the truth

It’s this kind of mob mentality which leads to unjustified nerfs and removal of amulets Can’t believe this kitten.

Can’t believe people can’t still kittening deal with traps. It’s not even just the act of dodging kitten.

U have invulnerables, blocks, evade skills. And it’s still not kittening enough. It’s not just that people can’t deal with it. It’s outright stated in the OP that DH bieng a revamped noob stomper is a problem.

Wouldn’t surprise if they removed friggin marauder amulet. Because DH is too strong.

then we get another pathetic kitten excuse of how the pvp team can only balance amulets and the like.

just got a crash. tried to report some kittening ranger that kept auto attacking at homebase.

I have done both ranked an unranked. And I honestly don’t know where to find said options. whenver i click on a player name. I only see the same old options as before the patch.

Yes A-net, I couldn’t buy the kasmeer in bikini outfit mini. But yeah A-net. Do this.

And to make it pc. put some buff norn in some kind of speed or some kitten. Maby beigarth.

With the standard for bunkering bieng as low in some cases as Thiefs and Meditrappers, I do wonder why I’m surprised. Maby because i kinda had in the back of my mind that A-net wouldn’t do this lol.

U’d think that with dagger/dagger elementalist gone, chronobunker gone. turret engineer gone, That it would be acceptible.

U’d think that the qq would stop when condi classes were limited to carrion, viper and wanderes. but it was still not enough, because anything that doesn’t instantly die is a friggin bunker.

Even when bunkers that could bunker 2 or more easily but at the same time offer lot of support where removed. it was appearantly still not enough.

the bunkers we had before this patch was litterally one. and that was DH bunker. It offered no DPS on the table. most of it’s heals were for itself.and the heals that did have an AOE where on a decent CD. And don’t actually ignore burst. the only aegis it could give was fragments of faith, shield 4 and shield of courage, it offered no boons other then furry and had kitten dps.

That is bunker.

Auramancer on clerics could have gotten +1 and if he was competent it would have certainely died against 3 in most cases, no question about that.

Scrapper is the only other bruiser, every other class could be killed in a 1 v 1.

But yeah since thiefs can dodge everything and medi trapper can bunker. then this is the logical result.

Zelulose.8695:

Then you have power creep. People hate that too. How would you like them to have never nerfed stealth since beta? Thief could attack and instantly re-stealth with no reveal. If you faced that nonsense you wouldn’t be so upset about nerfs. Also you forget the self resurrecting bunker rangers that were nearly immortal 3 vs 1 which was pure kitten because they could also kill you. Nerfs happened for a good reason. You might like an op class but that doesn’t mean other class mains like having their class looked down on 100% of the time. Allow a class to shine and hope that the nerfs move in the direction promoting a display of skill rather than spam.

The one bad thing doesn’t justify the other. I don’t get how some people somehow argue that one bad thing is enough justification for something worse. U are not adressing anything with this. Espically not with removing 1 amulet again.

And trust with how A-net tends to go overboard case in point, almost only nerfs to elementalists. and then removin an amulet they rely on the most is a prime example of this. I will never be content with bullkitten because I happend to suffer bullkitten from somebody else in the past. And you should too really.

Zelulose.8695:

It’s the truth adapting is part of life. Guildwars 2 has an adaptive environment in pve that demands adapting character to play. Builds are updated and change every expansion even if you don’t want nerfs. Adaptation is fundamental to gaming in general.

Oh come on,You can’t really believe this kitten man. Do you really think this to be the case? People hate nerfs for varrying reasons. They can think it’s unjustified,They think that nerfs can harm the balance rather then improve it. They can hate it for XYZ reasons. But more importantly there is Always some kind of Bias involved when it pertains to something u like. Ofcourse how big your bias is varries. But to bring the IQ card in a game that only somewhat tests your abilityt to adapt in a portion of the game that is called theorycrafting is beyond bullkitten. Honestly cannot believe u would say that.

Zelulose.8695:

People who hate nerfs usually can’t adapt quickly enough. That is a reflection of IQ. .

Sorry that is such a load of kitten. Come on.

Bassically a straightforward question. I’m wondering what off season ranked offers that makes it different from unranked and ranked? Since u get no pips. And leaderboards are appearantly not there either. I’m genuinely wondering what off season ranked does in terms of placement?Where is the competetive aspect? Aside from potentially maby better matches.

kitten , oh boi. can’t say i’m surprised tough.

zinkz.7045:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

What are you talking about? .He didn’t omnit anything infact. He outright adresses those seemingly calm and rationale people arguing for nerfs or what u call balance.

You are talking nonsense, maybe re-read it, when he talks about people “seemingly” calm and rationale, as being" skilled sophists", that isn’t referring to people who genuinely want balance, that is making the comparison to the more blunt “aggressive” posts, and those who are “seemingly” calm and rationale are “the real problem” when it comes to pushing their agenda.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Still what said author does doesn’t remotely come close to ommiting information.

Bullkitten, he omits people that genuinely want balance, he omits that sometimes some things are so broken there is no “agenda” behind it, he omits that good players who know how to the play the game can be utterly biased, he omits that MMOs are largely casual games aimed at wide variety of playerbase so that “unskilled” players actually need to be taken into account when making balance decisions, rather than ignored as he implies.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Second of all he’s not against nerfs per se. Rather he argues it should be used as a last resort.

Which is illogical nonsense that speaks volumes about his slanted view, you use what tool is best for the job, normally that is a combination of nerfs & buffs, nerfs should not be any more of a last resort than buffs.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

lt’s those massive nerfs on multiple classes which constantly kitten up things. ie if u nerf multiple classes hard. U risk destroying them all together and gw2 is a prime example of that as well.

There is nothing to destroy, because of the powercreep (buffs) GW2 combat is at the lowest skilled, most tedious and least varied it has ever been, buffs have ruined the game.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

the majority of players are still the newbies, bad and average ones.

And it’s a casual MMO with a wide playerbase, so they have to be catered for as part of balance, so you for example need classes/builds that are easier to play for some people, or you’ll have no playerbase, and to repeat, just because someone is a good player, it doesn’t mean they are objective in the slightest when it comes to balance or have any real understanding of it (the way good players often forget that you need to balance in different ways for all levels of player is a prime example of that).

Again he is not omitting those arguing for genuine balance because he doesn’t agree with it. If he’s more in favour of buffs rather then nerfs and doesn’t agree with said ’’rational’’ posts then u can’t even argue that he’s omitting information. that makes no sense. When u talk about buffs or nerfs. It soon adds an subjective element. I’m not sure how he’s omitting anything. If his premise is more buffs and nerfs as an last resort then those arguign for ‘’genuine balance’’ which is subjective mind you, then it would stand to reason that he would disagree. I’m not sure how he can omit an opinon.

I am however open to the possibility that he did not specify good players that might have an agenda tough that could be implied within the part of players having an agenda when it comes to percieved injustice of other support classes dealing better dps then others. He did not quite specify thier skilllevel as unskilled or skilled. Still skilled players more often then not give better insight in the unskilled ones. That makes only sense.

And yes there is a lot to destroy with massive nerfs. No matter what powercreep you are talking about. The moment u overnerf something it’s effects will be visiable. But not only that u kill build diversity more then an overbuff could. Because u outright make traits simply not work with each other anymore due reducing it’s effectivness so that u cannot make use of it anymore with other traits. U talk as if there is some kind of ceiling to nerfs. And that in itself makes no sense. Why do you think that even in this powercreep of elite specs they are still not counting the meta. they are still 22 working builds? taking about the great, good and the current test build of ROM which was used in the pro leagues btw, the carrion hybrid. Because u can nerf things till they are broken. But if u overbuff classes u can still have traits that are working and have anything resembling a synergy. And don’t get me wrong they are definately not meta level builds, well maby ROM’s is. But they can work. Do I think that balanced should be more nuanced including nerfs and buffs? Sure but I sure as hell think that the new players and unskilled ones should definately have as little priority as possible when talking about balance. It’s catering to to those unskilled people who are more often then not synonymous with lacking knowledge. that have an negative effect on balance.

And yes ofcourse u will have the outliers, the good players that aren as objective as they should be, But come on man. That doesn’t mean that u should have thier opnion weigh on a equal scale with the unskilled ones. Heck I can understand why he implies for them to be ignored. The unskilled one simply doesn’t see how to counter dragonhunter traps, the unskilled one doesn’t see that DH’s really aren’t as tanky as they are just because the burst heal with meditations. for example. DH’s are already used less in pro leagues. Do I think they should be ignored? No. but the priority should definately go to the player that knows how the game works. U can use them and then work on solutions for the new players.

zinkz.7045:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

that was quite an insightfull article. I recognize all reasons for wanting nerfs. very well summarized.

It was a terrible article, that conveniently omits that some people, in fact many people, genuinely believe a balanced game (or as close to) is good for the game so make points on that basis, or that sometimes people “whine” as he so objectively puts it about genuinely broken things.

The author apparently thinks you should always buff, so when 2 classes are stronger than the rest he would have the devs spend resources buffing the other 7, rather than doing what is more efficient and more likely to succeed and nerfing the 2 strong classes, the guy is just one of these types that cries in his bed at night when his beloved class gets nerfed, who has no concept of how powercreep destroys a game (this game is a fine example of that) and his one sided “article” reflects that.

About the only thing he got right is mentioning devs, really it shouldn’t matter why people call for a nerf or a buff, if the devs in a game are competent they should be able to look at it and decide if the player has a point or not, and not be swayed by a few forum posts.

What are you talking about? .He didn’t omnit anything infact. He outright adresses those seemingly calm and rationale people arguing for nerfs or what u call balance And quite frankly he isn’t even all that wrong on that one as well. You have people that write entire walls of tekst on how conditions are overpowered on how it’s unfair. On how conditions only use two stats and how they seemingly burst just like an power class. While leaving out that they can be cleansed, u can run resistance, run sigils and runes that effect duration etc. then thier main argument is that they there aren’t enough cleanses to combat them. Which is really a sneaky way of saying that conditions should be drained down the gutter. if they are enough cleanses to deal with conditions then condition classes and builds themselves become useless.

Or how tempest healings needs to be reworked without adding a viable offensive option. Look him disagreeing with said people arguing for balance doesn’t mean that he’s ommitting information. While I myself do think that they are actuall rational posters that argue for balance and thus actually offer solutions for other build options rather then oh nerf ele sustain and ’’rework’’ fire traitline without going into detail as to what can happen. Still what said author does doesn’t remotely come close to ommiting information.

Second of all he’s not against nerfs per se. Rather he argues it should be used as a last resort. And while he advocates for buffing more so then nerfing. I do agree that it’s more complicated to buff 7 other classes then to nerf 2 outperfoming classes. Which he didn’t say btw. Rahter he said the reverse. it’s better to buff 1 or 2 classes underperforming and have anything resembling a balance. like we have now in GW2 in which almost all classes are on the same level then put a massive nerf hammer and start from friggin square 1. It’s those massive nerfs on multiple classes which constantly kitten up things. ie if u nerf multiple classes hard. U risk destroying them all together and gw2 is a prime example of that as well.

there is no such thing as a buffing multiple classes is harder then nerfing multiple classes in both cases u can pretty much overnerf and overbuff.

And honestly the majority of what he says is right. Litterally every kittening class is OP. They are all op. DH’s are still OP. thiefs are still OP. they can dodge everything appearantly. DH’s can bunker a point like a turret engineer can. auramancers can appearantly deal kittenons of damage. Warriors are immortal. Necromancers ’s death schroud or reapers shroud is too much appearantly.

The true rational people arguing for balance and not just a massive TLDR on why something should be nerfed without giving the other classes something else to play with is small.

And we both know that Developers are really only half of the problem. even if they think said nerf requests are bullkitten we’d never kittening hear it. This is still a bussiness. And sometimes the big crowds need to be pleased. the majority of players are still the newbies, bad and average ones.

Supreme.3164:

Here an article that really should be read by everybody, reflect upon it..and act accordingly..

http://vrworld.com/2009/03/24/mmo-industry-or-the-plague-of-nerfs/

I have my own faults, I contributed to this ugly trend, therefore I’m not here to lecture anybody from any high moral ground but at the very least I have the courage to admit it..what about you?

There is something that we must realize perfect balance does not means scenario where several professions can each do everything well, this idea is completely irrational, it’s insane.

We have 9 professions and each profession will be good at something, even if I complain about some condi specs, I can at least understand this much.

http://www.geaugaconstitutionalcouncil.org/userfiles/image/BrainSmallMinded.gif

that was quite an insightfull article. I recognize all reasons for wanting nerfs. very well summarized. While I hardly advocate for nerfs as I later realize that there is some counter to it. I did have quite the jealosy of revenant/heralds in particular at the start of the expansion. Tough i kept my toughts to myself. I as a guardian player at that time felt betrayed as if my class role was stolen and then given to the new class. Kinda like how an elder sibling gets jealous at thier newly born brother and sister. Druids were a close second for the healing power that was stolen from us. I thought.

Keep in mind that my toughts regarding guardians were kinda maby bordering on bieng elitistic while at the same time my knowledge of the class was also limited and thus generalised guardians as supporter classes with the meditation and burn guardian at the side. I however firmly believed that supporting was where this class was made at heart. I pretty much read through the zeal,radiance and valor traitlines with blind eyes intentionally.

I do however think that the focus would be to promote balance, However it must be done in a such way that developers themselves get provided with enough information that they can make an informed decision. It’s not just the reasons givens for why something is OP. But how it works as a whole with the currently most used roles a class has and then builds as a close second, rather they are inseparable. If u nerf a trait simply because a single build. u fail to think ahead as other ‘’less op’’ builds might have used that trait as well. Such as Adrenal health. In which condi warriors are seen as unkillable yet power warriors aren’t besides roughly same armour and hp values in general. Aside from condi warriors bieng able land more hits with thier burst skills talking about macebow ofcourse but also the damage on dishes out. It keeps you on your toes and makes a situation more dreadfull. Add the possibility of them staying alive longer by getting more kills as opposed to getting killed also ads to it(personally I believe condi warriors are fine). I believe it’s also a bit of a trick one’s bieng played at playing with ones perception.

What also should be taken in account when balancing is not just if it can beat u in a fight but what it sacrifices and how effective it is in several situations for Example DH bunker is pure bunker. But it’s damage is absolutely zero figuratively speaking. U shouldn’t throw a big nerf hammer at a build that has only 2 combat options but lacks in all others. Neither should the nerf hammer come big on a class that at the moment has little to none build options such as the tempest.

So bassically u need to have a generally nuanced look at balance. It’s not just how OP it is. But how it affects the game as a whole and the class as a whole.

Last and not least. Counters.

Are they reasonable counters to a class or a build. Counters can atleast be divided in 2 groups. Counters regarding to fights. And strategical and tactical counters such as. Ourotating a teamcomp that has 3 dragonhunters. since they have low mobility for example. Spread them around and thus reduce thier on point presence for example

I however think that the last one regarding counters should be more represented by players who are better then average and pro’s.

In short there needs to be more nuanced look from the developers. This doesn’t mean that u have to ignore what all average people say. Instead simply put the pieces together. Fish from info from all demographics and then put a priority on the higher skilled players. Balance from there. that way all voices are heard.

Burtnik.5218:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Burtnik.5218:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

weakness is fine.

Its not by any means. That condition alone ruins power builds.

Yes it is fine. it’a a single condition that isn’t getting applied as much as the other builds. Neither does it have the tools to stack as incredibly long as other conditions.

Weakness is fine. It’s not different then protection or aegis.. Having counters to builds is not wrong per se. That is what makes an rpg an rpg. Only if weaknessis applied excesively and has no counter play whatsoever. one could talk.

But there is u can use resistance, cleanse it. Or wait it out. or even disenage.

Or just play condi build like every other pleb and faceroll my keyboard without giving a f about weakness. There is ton of weakness application and i can literally keep it up whole time on some classes if you lack condi clear. 30+sec weakness is not rare thing to see really. Also as you mentioned there is already protection or aegis. So why do we need another op condition on top of that? How about weakness reduce condition damage by 50%? I mean these evi/killshots that hits for 700 glacial are sexy af.. not.

Not every class has resistance nor space to keep cleaning it over 12+ confusion stack and other cancer this game has to offer.

Condi and pleb? Ah I see.

No there is not a ton of weakness applications. Looking at the condi meta build. Macebow only applies 5 seconds of weakness on a single auto attack. Chronophantasma shatter only 2 and 3 second weakness on staf skills 4 and 5 mind you. Corruption mancer has zero weakness unless you go master of corruption traits.

And no warrior is gonna just auto attack for the entire day. Neither is chronphantasm mesmer gonna spam staff 4 and 5 skill. Heck ragezerker only get’s a bit more weakness for 3 seconds On interupts. Yeah try pulling that off on people with stability, blocks or blinds. and this is aside from timing and latency.

Seems u are one of those posters that hate conditions and thus exagarates.

BTW focusing an entire build around weakness killing it’s effectivness in other areas doesn’t make it op. If u intentionally go to lengths to make a build focused on weakness then weakness deserves to have long lasting effects. Not sure I believe the 30 sec weakness.

Also why is there weakness? Because not all classes have access to blocks, aegis and protection. Also some power builds can stack might easily above the 10 stacks or have a good fury uptime.

I will say it again. Weakness is completely fine.

Burtnik.5218:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

weakness is fine.

Its not by any means. That condition alone ruins power builds.

Yes it is fine. it’a a single condition that isn’t getting applied as much as the other builds. Neither does it have the tools to stack as incredibly long as other conditions.

Weakness is fine. It’s not different then protection or aegis.. Having counters to builds is not wrong per se. That is what makes an rpg an rpg. Only if weaknessis applied excesively and has no counter play whatsoever. one could talk.

But there is u can use resistance, cleanse it. Or wait it out. or even disenage.

weakness is fine.

I’d rather have them friggin lose a bunch of pips. they are litterall kittening cancer. those that afk or dc on purpose ofcourse because u got wiped etc. I hate them with a passion. People should learn that behaviour that is anti social, manipulates the outcome of the match intensionally with other means then participation should be punished or we will have players thinking that these kind of behaviour is acceptable and in worse cases, blame the victim or victims instead of themselves.

However I do see sme merit in combinging extremely heavy punishment with the suggestions jourdelune made. they are actuall suggestion that could help out the problem. However AFK’er still need to have an extremely heavypunishment so that they won’t just think. Oh well me doing nothing will just find a replacement and or the other team will just have one of those guys frozen.

While decent solutions. It should not be normalized One kittening AFK’er should not cause me to be frozen because that kitten kid couldn’t be grown up enough to play the game to the end.

I think that showing your own personal MMR would also help and give afk’er insight and show them what the results are of their actions. It might be an eye opener and maby even show them that they are not even that good as they think and prompt them to do better. At the same time it should not be made public cause it might prompt one to AFK from the start because thier mmr is not high enough.

Afk’ers will think twice before leaving the game. Not only do they get a heavy punishment, they will also get truth bombed and realize that thier ’’sucky’’ teammates is all on them and not matchmaking system.

But man what do I absolutely hate AFK’ers. I detest them. Nothing as annoying as having your trust in your comrade broken, bieng betrayed by that scum, Losing most if not all control over the match seeing a potentiall good match thrown in the gutter. killing oppurtunity to be rewarded for your hard work, killing the ability to improve in a 5 man teambased game. They are trash. No bad player can kitten me of more then an Afk’er and trust me I’ve hadmy share. we litterally lost by when we were in the lead by 440 ish 200. (Can’t exactly force a decap when u are playing a bunker guard, Have 3 thiefs who at the end stopped going for decaps and zerged mid only to die and a auramancer who like me couldn’t do much else either).And I in return had my bad days and was the bad player. It’s called having responsibility and owning up to your mistakes and showing empathy. No player, plays at thier best every kittening time for 100 percent, even the best will kitten up something or make a mistake. Personally would like them for not to play the game at all but I know that’s not a logical solotution.that’s just my hate speaking.

no, i like my elite specs. there is a lack of build diversity on the meta levels. While i believe it to be lacking it’s not without potential.

This entire mes just because A-net made an statement they couldn’t possibly make true. the elite specilisation bring a different playstyle but at the same time it increasesvital core abilities.

DH’s have thier virtues increased and get acces to traps

Berzerkers get easier acces to burst skills and have their burst skills increased and get access a solid condition role for example.

>the moment u buff core traitlines elite specs become stronger.

or

>And if u succeed into bring core classes on an equal ground with elite specs by for example including a core bonus mechanic in which traits change the moment any combination of 3 core traitlines and also unlocks new core utilities, elite skills and healing skills. then fewer players would buy HOT, espically those that pvp.

I honestly think that this whole core=equal to elite spec is a load of nonsense really. U are getting the core game for free. Some of us put down 30-50 bucks for the game and some even 99 or more for the special edition version. I mean it’s akin a car dealer selling an buggatti veyron and a toyata jaris which is just as fast for the same kittening price.

u need to lure players with something.

nothing needs to be banned. in a long time we have anything representing a decent balance in which all classes have thier part in the game. Sure some are played more frequently then others in higher divisions but it’s going in the right direction. what we need is build diversity.

So glad, You are not part of the balance team OP.

Buffs

>Make the affects(minus the immobilize) of wings of resolve instant
>Make shield of courage instant

Nothing else needs to be nerfed.

We have a very good balance. We just need to focus on slightly step by step buffing DH just a tiny bit. So that an overbuff can be turned back in case it becomes too powerfull.

A-net shouldn’t kitten this up. By going on the nerf hammer again. Once they get accustmed by having a meta where all classes are played on a top tier level. then the next step is experimenting with build diversity. Like all classes are used right now at higher divisions which is a good thing. Not sure how it goes in pro league. willing to bet revenants and tempests are use more often then not.

Same, i like unranked, I’m honestly not taking it seriously as in playing full on meta builds. Doesn’t mean that i’m throwing the match nessisarily. I see the same with other diamonds and ruby players, testing new builds and a like. I honestly think it’s not just new players but als vets taking the time to practice new classes or new builds really.

it’s unranked. I’’d say that the amount of players playing full on meta are less now. Instead they are testing new builds, new classes for season 4 playing less seriously cause there is ‘’nothing to lose’‘. Add in that mathmaking in unranked is appearantly similar to season 1 and u get these kind of matches. It’s annoying but i guess i can’t Judge another for testing a new build. As I’m doing the same. As long as u don’t throw the match, afk or dc intentionally i’m cool with it. Sometimes u need to practice.

But even with these kind of matches. I welcome unranked. Can u imagine there bieng ranked for a year? The PvP section and Proffesion filled with excessive QQ asking for nerfs by an ‘’Warrior or Dragonhunter player’’,moreso then normal but then the entire year? Complaints about everybody bieng matched with players below thier level all the kittening time, Idiots justifying AFK blaming everybody but themselves.

Then have pvp matches filled with that same toxicity. People extorting thier other teammates by force them to re-roll. Or AFK or they need to pay up gold, players afk’in as early after a single wipe on mid, tons of flaming at the teamchat.

Yeah I need those breaks, As ranked can bring out the worse in people. I know those monsters are still hiding in unranked. Some having left the scene, some of them remained but have thier inner kittenbagness surpressed as unranked is less serious to them. Or they are stomping newbies.

Don’t get me wrong here. Ranked> Unranked in match quality and it really get’s my blood pumping but boi, boi, it’s also akin to stepping into the kittening future. In which the purge happens for 6 weeks straight. Some Players become animals.

Imagine winning a match only for some motherkittener to AFK because you did an single action he did not agree with. That’s so infuriating.

Ugh.

emkelly.2371:

^this.

Also, skull Grinder Is over powered.

Also, also, You’re the one complaining about build diversity. Warriors are the most diverse class in the game right now. And just because you can’t make anything work for you besides one or two builds doesn’t mean the rest of us have not have great success and fun with many builds.

Also, also, also, I don’t really feel the need to argue this point any more.

>Says Skull Grinder primal burst is overpowered
>claims vanilla warrior are very effective alternatives.

Also, Also, Also, you are full of kitten.. I never said that they couldn’t work. I’m against the notion that those pre-evolutions are equal alternatives to the current meta game. No 12 kittening builds that are equal to the meta will stay so well hidden.

So how bout you Also, Also, Also get your kitten out of here with your bullkitten?

K Thanks.

Asura by far. Asura jumps around and twists and turns as he swings his weapons.

emkelly.2371:

Have you not been watching the forums? We have posted MANY Effective builds in the last week alone. But sure I’ll spell it out for you.

In bothe Berserker and Vanilla Warrior there are at least three builds wich which are Effective. Power, Condi, Hybrid. So that’s 6 right there. Then with each of those types there are at least two different builds setups that work effectively. That’s 12. Dont believe me?

Vanailla power options
Killshot
Greatsword, Axe/sheild

Vanilla Condi Options
CC, Condi with mace/sheild, hammer and stances
Or CC Condi with Physicals

Vanilla hybrid options
First, just take the condi options and change the amulet. or!
GS, Mace/sheild
GS Axe/sheild, with physicals

Pretty much as long as you have Defense and Discipline you can pretty much make anything work effectively.

Oh come on. Very effective builds? That’s an overstatement a big one at that. When u you use the term ‘’very effective’’ I expected something else then just working builds. Just because a build is made at the proffesion forums or made anyways doesn’t mean it’s ‘’very effective’’ all of a sudden. Like seriously? Do you really think that if they were more then 10 ‘’very effective builds’’ we wouldn’t constantly have people complaining about build diveristy? We would see more killshots and vanila warriors in ranked. No rather they are macebows/ragezerkers and the occasional great axe running around. Heck all of the condi hybrid builds are litterally in the strongest meaning of the word pre-evolutions.

Like who in thier right mind would take a vanilla condi warrior when the zerker version not only has better access to stunbreaks, way more condi application and condi bursts at it’s disposal. Comparing these builds with the meta as alternate build options as if they are equally or even close to equally effective is nothing short of a joke. And don’t get me wrong here. they are not trash by any means. But comparable? no kittening way man. U are delusional. The same player picking any of the builds would become weaker if he did so.

What a joke man.

edit: You just admit that mace primal burst was too overpowered in my: Warriors are u scared thread. Why would u say that if the condi builds were ‘’very effective’’ alternatives?

Don’t agree with almost anything listed. Quite a few of your suggestions would increase que time and decrease pvp population. Espically those that outright determine what u want to play.‘’ Class stacking, rerolling bans, pretty much translates to. U can only play the class i want u to play. ’’

Not everybody is a Multi classer. forcing them to reroll would pretty much force them in a playstyle they could potentially not be comforable with. And banning re-rolls pretty much kills strategy what if your entire team comp is full of builds that lack dps? and u can’t re-roll. U pretty much force a player in a match he’s prolly bound to lose.

Reporting for leeching is can be abused so hard and outright kill your options for strategies to employ as holding points can be frowned upon, even if u stay on close for just 15 seconds seeing a slow moving guardian going for the decap. Sorry.

The ascension is a legendary pvp backpack with achievements spread over 4 pvp seasons lasting longer then a month. Just because some of u started late for reason XYZ doesn’t entitle you to an items supposed to be rare. It’s supposed to be hard to get. You play this game by choice. If u lack free time or chose to start this season late then that’s on you. Then become a casual player instead. U cannot expect to have content meant for dedicated players to become easily accesible.

Ressting MMR is fine and all. But that would mean that litterally everybody starts again. Which means u could litterally get farmed by players with an skill level far above you. Heck u could meet an pro leaguer that destroys you as collateral damage on thier sprint back up to thier appropiate mmr? Do u really want that to happen? What if u are one of those unlucky players that got farmed over and over and over again?

We still have whiners here. As everybody is litterally thrown into the jungle. Instead I suggest u lower the MMR of new players instead.

emkelly.2371:

Dude. there are at least 10 very effective builds out there for warrior. you are not pigeon-holed into any set build. YOU may have only had success with one build, but other warriors have found success with many. Hybrid, Power, Condi. the only thing a warrior cannot do is strait up Full Bunker. (and even that might be debatable. I’ve never had success with it.

But regardless i guess me explaining this too you is pointless if you are leaving. So i guess all i can say is.

“Good riddance.”

10 very effective builds out there?Atleast? Seriously, what the hell man? Seems like a straight up lie to me. Dude if this was true, I sure as hell wonder where they’ve been this entire season. Couldn’t find them in Amber, Emerald, saphire, ruby or diamond. Maby they were in legendary all along? Couldn’t find them on metabattle either. Instead I’ve seen Macebow, Ragezerker, Greataxe and gunzerkers. In the following order. With Macebow bieng the majority. Ragezerker bieng somewhat common., Greataxe and gunzerkers bieng a rarity. And when u see them they got kittened up hard safe for the few good ones.

So where are atleast 10 very effective builds?

ok thanx man, glad to have this cleared up.

I have almost all ascension achievements but one. I need to cross 4 divisions in a season. for the hymn of glory. I’m diamond now. I have 2 out of 4 divisions crossed. If I start in saphire next season? Does that mean that I need to get to diamond again or do I automatically get the remainin two divisions crossed as I start in saphire in season 4?

I’m definately in for capes. However I think only the last one fits. the first 3 are more for guardians. I think A-net should make class specific armour u can get through achievements. I envision an warrior to look more menancing. while using heavy armour. The armour shouldn’t make them bigger rather show thier figure(male and female)

While guardians i envision to look bigger, wider and heavy shiny armour. more like an divine avenger while warrior is more like a black-knightish, vagabond, sellsword kinda guy.

How guardians should look:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c2/4f/0d/c24f0d173b880bf66541b02b726ab757.jpg

How warriors should look:

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--ljgMzBtC--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/1442039979357127495.jpg

Are you scared that due to all the QQ, warriors are going to be nerfed into the ground in the next balance patch? I mean touching sustain. and nerfing adrenal health into the ground, killing power warriors, increasing the CD on defy pain. reducing the amount of condi’s cleared on cleansing ire, completely killing any warrior build that takes strength over discipline. I honestly can’t help but feel that Ragezerker or any genius that managed to make strength, defence zerker work are gonna get hit hard.

Maby it’s just me bieng paranoid here. But for the last few days I’m really having that omnious feeling.

I’m legimately worried now.Espically since the latest balance patches really seem like lazy fixes in response to all the QQ.

Euthymias.7984:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Are there even that many condi bunkers?

Not really.
Just condi-bruisers.

By that logic Power Berserkers, Scrappers and Heralds would be bruisers as well. Add in palladins’s greatsword druid and u got plenty of bruisers. Only thief and DH are left out really.

Seems to me that with the removal of mercenary. There really shouldn’t be much to complain about.As now both power and condi amulets have an equally distrbuted stat system with either 2 or 3 offensive stats and one stat for sustain. Palladins amulet bieng the execption to sage amulet bieng the execption here.

Oh kitten yes. It’s so kittening annoying. Espically wings of resolve. Holy kitten. they are so kittening clunky..

Are there even that many condi bunkers? So far the only bunkers in play are DH bunker and Cleric Auramancer kinda. But even cleric auramancer won’t be able to bunker for long if focused properly espically wit warrior in play. Scrappers are more bruisers then bunkers but if played properly then yes they can bunker. Emphasis on on IF.

They’re really but two builds that u can call a proper bunker and that is DH bunker and cleric auramancer. Every other class can be killed in an 1 v 1 duel.

Wanderers is fine. it offers only toughness as sustain. Seems fair really. And is brought to be more in tune with marauders amulet who has only vitality for sustain.

Darknicrofia.2604:

guardian burn builds will be nothing more than a gimmick in pvp.

we have no other cover condis save for the occasional blind or vuln or immob outside of sigil/rune procs and we sacrifice way too many defensive utility traits and slots, something that other condi builds actually are specifically specced for.

so we’re left with a single damaging condi and squishy slow target that can put up high burn ticks once every 20 secs but brings nothing else to the table.

as far as “constant pressure” with things like burn on block/aegis, its laughable, 1 or 2 stacks of burning barely tickles in today’s meta, the only way to get kills with burn is burst stack 10 stacks of burning to unsuspecting folks that either didn’t bring or have condi cleanse on cooldown.

that build of yours doesn’t run virtues (meaning no cleanse from resolve and no stunbreak/stability) and has 11k health…you’re not living long enough to apply ANY pressure.

Just to clear up some things.

>First things, the 2 stacks of burns on blocks is very common, thanx to the rune of the guardian and amplified wrath, not . Then add in the fact that focus skill 5, and shield skill 5 last longer then 1 second, fragments of faith require me to walk atleast a few steps on an aegis shield for me to block attacks make it very likely that both the rune and the trait will procc at the same time.

With amplified wratch burning for 3 and a half second and rune of the guardian burning for 1 and a half second. So if by any chance i block again before 1 second has passed for amplified wrath to proc again a single stack of burn still goes for 1 and a half second.

>Constant pressure is applied because of my base damage through viper amulet and the blocks accesible to my weapon skills, which are mace skill 3, shield skill 4, shield skill 5,focus skill 5. and fragments of faith when my goe to burst like shield of courage and spear of justice are on thier CD’s which i can use twice in a short time thanx to renewed focus if i feel like it.. those burst skills can easily get to 7 burn stacks. In short even when i used up my burst skills u can expect to be burned for 2 stacks on blocks. thus my burns are applied constantly besides my lack of conditions to cover. Speaking of which. If u feel confident in your skills u could switch hunters fortification for big game hunter. U could also use the following sigils: sigil of ice and fraility and swap them for sigil of smoldering.. While it’s not a ton. It will aid u in conditions used for coverage. U got some leeway here to alter the build for more condi application.

>It’s true while I don’t run virtues. I do run the double fragments of faith trap which is a double stunbreaker and a 3 stacks stability for 5 second btw. As for conditions. I run smite on heal, smite on utility and contemplation of purity and hunters fortifications. And with all the blocks I have. I won’t melt as quickly to conditions as you think. The 11.6 K hp is definately a weakpoint but it’s managable atleast.

Hey fellow guardians. In an attempt to increase build diversity beyond Just the Medi trapper and DH bunker. I’ve given one more knack at making a burn DH.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRArd5en8cCFdiVDBeDB8DhF/hSO8P/2/KcvgPwKAqg6E-TJhAABb8EAyvMgV7PAwJBAA

The focus lies in dealing excessive amount of burns through blocks thanx to tons of aegis and blocks, DH and the weaponset give(Mace, Shield, Focus), while keeping up pressure with the high base damage, The rune of of the guardian combined with amplied wrath make each burn worh atleast 2 stacks. Bassically between your base damage and burns applied through spear of justice. You constantly attack your foe one way or an another even if u retreat.

You will have access to to condi cleanses and tons of blocks to help u deal with your low hp.

Try it out, tell me what u think.

Yeah. At this point in time I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with warriors at this point. I at first was open to the possibility that conditions might need a small shave. But now I’m like naw men. Both condi builds have weaknesses have distinct weaknesses. Ragezerker has only condi cleanse via cleansing ire(which has them sacrifice rousing resiliance in a meta where hybrid damage is a thing plus they use kittening vipers amulet for kittens sake) and resistance via healing signet(which takes away passive healing for 20 sec) and bezerker stance at a 60 sec CD. Plus they are friggin double melee, Not one melee and one ranged. No litterally double melee I emphasize again. That makes it easy to kite if u pay attention. They are completely justified in thier damage output and in no way deserve nerfs.

Macebow. has no condi damage whatsoever wth maceshield unless they go in berserk mode. and thier longbow attacks are slow they only apply AOE burn and bleed on thier bow even if they use bow in berserker mode. the amount of conditions applied is low even if the stacks are high making it perfectly cleansable even with low condi cleanse classes, bleed and burn is quite tame compared to what mesmers, revenants and necromancers can disch out.blocks, aegis and projeticle hate will still be quite helpfull againss the slow kitten bow. Mace shield suffers from the same problem as ragezerker. u can kite them.

Macebow is tankier then ragezerker for sacrificing the incredible condi burst ragezerker can provide. seems fair to me. espically since thier condi output is quite tame when not in berserker mode which is more then a fair opening to deal with them. some classes deal condi’s regardless of a tranformation or changing stances or whatever mechanic is added. seems fair to me.

Darknicrofia.2604:

yep, chances are if you’re beating a rev 1v1 with a paladin amulet, he’s bad enough that you would have ended that fight 10-20 secs sooner with a marauder amulet.

True. It sucks tough that guardians cannot have a support role anymore outside in player vs player outside of wvw. I hope the next elite spec brings it back.