Guild Wars 2

I feel your pain really OP. I hate afk’ers with a passion but at the moment there is not much u can do about them. All u can do is implement a system that prevents AFK AT Base. staying at base for longer then 30 seconds won’t have a strategical benefit unless u are all wiped and or legacy of the foefire u could for example allow a 20 sec waiting time at base if 4 or teammates are downed or wiped with less then 25 percent health.. U could set an strategical defence outside the foefire camp. that can deduce. whenever an invader is within a 1200 units of radius of the camps door at foefire. only then u can stay at base indefinately. if not the timer restarts from 0 to 30 and and once 30 is hit. U get a stack of dishonour.or some kitten.

Darknicrofia.2604:

paladin is bad, it gives guards the illusion of more sustain with the additional toughness and cuts down your burst significantly.

we’re not out attritioning ANYONE in a long drawn out fight that knows how to play their class, marauder or bust for medi builds.

I agree. It’s only marauder or cleric with the bunker builds spec.

Prince Vingador.8067:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Just don’t play pvp if u are gonna afk or dc. Leave the game move on to something else. You shouldn’t play a game u hate so much that u are gonna drag down 4 innoncent players with you intentionally. You bought the game, U know that u face randoms and play with them. U know that u will be better and worse then other players, same applies for the enemy team. If u play the game u better accept that first. this is your responsibility not thiers. They have accepted that hard truth. You should do so as well or get out.

U are confuse, no 1 here is saying he afks on porpouse for no reason, they afk because the game is lost, u understand this?
Last season u could keep fighting cause if u had enough points then u wouldnt lose a pip and u could actually won a pip, but now if u lose 500- 5 or 500- 499 there is no diference.
This is why some players afk.
No one is going to afk if they think they are or have a chance to win.
Dont think the player that is going to afk when u are losing 300- 70 that is punishing 4 inocent players, this afk player that u think hes the reason u not going to win hes actually helping the game to end faster.
I know it sounds wrong, but really dude if u are down 300 points with no capps and team loses all team fights do u really blame the guy that is going to afk ? Really?
They are far from inocent trust me.

No I’m not confused trust me. No trust u are confused. People AFK litterally on purpose to kittening spite the rest most of time. I had an guy get wiped at mid. Then litterally afk after the opening fight at mid. This is unforgivable. Players that let the game end because they think it’s gonna end quicker are harming the team way more then 4 noobs could do. fights are outnumbered, holding points get harder, forcing decaps gets harder. And espically if that guy that AFK get’s kittening wiped before me in my case. People have no justifcation for afk’ing. Spitefull behaviour it is. And yes the 4 players are innoncent. Who the hell are you or anybody to determine how good a player should be in a game? They paid for the game just as you did, they like you are better then others and also share the burden of having to play with people below their level. Not even the best matchmaking system will save u from blowout matches 100 percent of the time. If U don’t want to accept the consequences of playing with people beneath your level besides playing in a game with kittenING RANDOMS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD THEN THIS IS YOUR kittenING FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You made your own rules, impose them on others and then kittening blame the other players? then kittening spoil the game for the other 4 because they don’t follow it? I will say it again. Don’t play the game. Or make your own premade.

Just don’t play pvp if u are gonna afk or dc. Leave the game move on to something else. You shouldn’t play a game u hate so much that u are gonna drag down 4 innoncent players with you intentionally. You bought the game, U know that u face randoms and play with them. U know that u will be better and worse then other players, same applies for the enemy team. If u play the game u better accept that first. this is your responsibility not thiers. They have accepted that hard truth. You should do so as well or get out.

Not anymore n the end they are just npc’’s really. But assuming u feel guilty on a level of principle and insteaad see the npc’s as hypothetical scenarios that reflect on how u would handle things. Then yes I felt guilty in the past. I hope by god you don’t see them as real people OP.

As long as the polls don’t include specific opinons on class balance. I’m all for it. Not in the mood for the loud masses to QQ for O mah gosh DH op nerf it. Or nerf warrior in the ground kinda kitten.

I had an piece of kitten guy AFK on me because I didn’t come to close quickly enough. We were 248-200 in our favour and he AFK’ed. We lost the game horribly.

Oddily enough had I left mid. It’d litterally had been decapped 10 seconds later. Broke my kittening winstreak.

Sorry but I will never, ever accept any reason for Afk’ers unless it was a DC, Or they IRL troubles which they had to quickly attend to.

When u decide to play a game with complete randoms, then u better accept that u might get teamed up with people not as good as you. Or complete idiots. That’s what u call consequences. The game is a team game. You are not the only getting frustrated by bad gameplay it’s relative unless u are an high mmr player that can rank high in the guild challenger league and get to legend in less then a 100 games. They won’t be many people above you aside from the pro’s. Everybody else makes kittening mistakes and u will see differences in skill level.

In short get over it, Or don’t even play the game at all.

Pretty much a straightforward question.

So bassically currently for ranked I use pretty much the meta level and great level builds and some of it is altered to my liking. I used to play with good level builds ie power shatter and below till i hit the high saphires and was forced to play better builds. ATM ruby tier 4 with moderate difficulty so still managable. However the way I got there is well. I don’t quite enjoy the builds I am using to be honest.

According to Metabattle:

Ragezerker(Great)
Chronophantasma Shatter(Meta Level)
Medi Trapper(Great)
Bunker DH (Great)

These builds are certainly worth thier classification. And I have to thank the people who made Chronophantasma and Medi Trapper a reality. I would have never have came up with those 2 builds. Genius really. However I’m starting to get bored not because I’m all of a sudden kicking behind or something no rather, my enemies have the same build, My teammates have the same builds, I’m even seeing Mace/Bow in WvW when roaming.

I noticed a lot more variation and sometimes quite interesting ideas when looking at builds classified as good and below however picking them up and playing is not quite easy. The thing is. I’m decent enough to actually play with them and win more then half of my 1 v 1’s and contribute to teamfights, stay alive the longest ussually or even disenage under heavy pressure however I’m not skilled enough to carry when the situations asks for it. Bassically I fall within that majority of playerbase who at intermediate to higher divisions has use the builds that are Great to meta level.

Just to make things clear. I’m not whining about it bieng unfair or kitten like that. I know the reason. And all the more power to it if u can make it to legendary with a shatter mesmer, U get my respect. However I’m just wondering if many people feel the same? It’s really starting to get boring

Razor.9872:

From reddit:

“90% of thief players are trash. Almost no difference between the 10th percentile and the 80th percentile. As soon as you get into like the top 5% of thieves they are kittening annoying as kitten (AKA good). You literally cannot hit them. If you manage to win, you never manage to kill them because they’re off kittening around somewhere else. If you EVER find yourself at less than 20% HP the thief will be there backstabbing you. Doesn’t matter if he was across the map. He just somehow backstabs you. Constant decaps. Like they will literally decap home and then when you blink they’re already decaping far. Like what the kitten.”

This sums up thiefs in general.

Agemnon.4608:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Thiefs have some teamfight potential. It’s just that the skill-ceiling for thief is so incredibly high compared with all AOE’s and cc running around. That only the incredibly talented player can make it work. It’s also incredibly hard to win 1 v 1’s as your class is almost entirely a class dependent on active play. A thief that wins a 1 v 1 is almost entirely more skilled player then you if he wins.

I’ve watched much of this video and Vallun defeated a scrapper multiple times in 1v1:

https://www.twitch.tv/vallunv/v/72310535

He was likely at least Diamond too.

At 48:40 he fights the engi and then again a couple minutes later. It’s inspirational and I’m taking some notes.

But the thing is, how many people are vallun? Or sinderer? Or toker? Yes it’s those good thiefs that can do that. Thiefs still have an incredibly high skill ceiling. infact u are still better off +1 ing then 1 v 1’ing.

Thiefs have some teamfight potential. It’s just that the skill-ceiling for thief is so incredibly high compared with all AOE’s and cc running around. That only the incredibly talented player can make it work. It’s also incredibly hard to win 1 v 1’s as your class is almost entirely a class dependent on active play. A thief that wins a 1 v 1 is almost entirely more skilled player then you if he wins.

Actually not really in the mood for a debate Cynz. Let’s agree to disagree.

Cynz.9437:

If you don’t cleanse condis, nightmare rune on war can proc the trait and take easily half of my thief’s HP if not more.

AA still applies/stack condis and it does hurt if you don’t have passive condi cleanse 24/7. Necro is one of the biggest offenders with bleed stacking and corrupt boon on AA. I like how you conveniently left it out and accused me of lying.

Oh so you do admit you need a lot of condi cleanse and not play squishy characters to deal with condis from AA? And yet you accuse me of lying? LOL?

Confusion prevents you from using spells, if you use one while having multiple confusion stacks you might even get 1 shot depending on how much HP you got. Same thing with torment, each step you take you take quite high dmg if it is applied by condi build and you got few stacks of it. Getting 15 stacks of confusion as a warrior is not that hard, same goes for mes.

Yes, all meta builds have condi cleanse but by all means it just can’t keep up with amount of condi flying around atm, imo. Sure, 1 necro vs ele/scrapper/druid combo probably won’t do much but it is hilarious scenario.

You think you don’t need to dodge shatter from condi mes, really?

Yes, i do complain about powercreep added with HoT. It ruined pvp, imo.

I stand by my point, DH traps (not DH) are as cheesy and cheap as turret engi, there is little thought or skill cap in them. I think bunker guard and medi guard should be a thing and not braindead mechanics like traps.

I think condis were meant to have more of utility function when the game came out hence why most of them some kind of controlling effects. Balancing team at some point apparently changed their opinion and flat out buffed condi damaged however didn’t nerf controlling effect of condis in any way.

Yes, you can cleanse them if you have a lot of cleanses which no class does besides ele maybe. Once again i explained why heal is not so great vs condis: poison. Only 2 classes in this game have semi decent access to resistance, besides resistance can be corrupted. Condis continue to tick even in invul…. idk why you would even bring it up.

I didn’t generalize condis, i did say that condis application frequency (including going through dodges, blocks, applied by passives etc.) needs to be looked at.

Suuure, i am overexaggerate and you just use personal attacks as an argument.

I will say it again. Condi application is not fine.

> First of all that is thiefs problem. aka your problem. So yes nightmare rune procs can proc trait on interupt when AFK. When the ragezerker is running viper amulet. And u let those bleeds and confusion stack on a thief. That’s your problem. U are complaining about the fact that u don’t cleanse these conditions when u have a several seconds window to deal with that trait while playing an incredibly squishy class. As if if at this point matters. In short your fault. U are not making sense here. Complaining about conditions because they deal more damage on a class that is squishy from itself?

>I didn’t left anything out. U argued for crapton of condi’s Not condition damage. Don’t change the wording to fit your argument. Bassically u are saying necro mancers can stack a crapton of bleeding after stacking bleeds while u don’t cleanse it. How is that different from an auto attack with the current classes in pvp? How does that even remotely viable in pvp play? It’s absurd. By that logic any auto attack from a thief can also deal craptons of damage if left unattended. U can easily lose half your hp in a few seconds be it staff or dagger, espically staff. You are arguing from an unlikelyly absurd scenario and then try to justify it as conditions somehow bieng too much or OP. If u find this troubleing even tough it’s again a single condition two max. Then it’s your problem.

>No where do I admit that u need a lot of condi cleanse? If u read my post U’d see that condi cleanse and sustain overall through blocks boons and heals are enough. So again not sure where u are getting that from. But yeah I do take it to you for complaining about conditions when playing a squishy class. U can play a squishy class but then u better accept reality for what it is instead of complaining that’s all. I never said u don’t have to play a squishy class.

>Yes it’s situatiunal depending on your HP, the utilies and healing skill u got left or not. Also depending on your teammates for heals is also a factor. That doesn’t make it an kill bill 4 steps and you’re death condi. No reason to complain about this. Even 15 stacks of confusion can be cleansed or if u have enough hp u can disenage wait for your CD’s and take half of it.

>DH is not cheese. At this point in time they are out of the competetive level. People know how to dodge them. The skill ceiling is low but at the same time thier low skill ceiling is offset by the ways people have devised to deal with them some bieng very creative others bieng outright easy. Unlike a turret engineer u cannot just stand on point and get either nuked, waste few minutes destroying thier turrets which. No DH’s are now required to actually play good overall so yes thier is a low skill ceiling but it in the end it doesn’t really matter anymore. The DH’s that play with the old mentality get absolutely wrecked at mid.

>But the thing is. U shouldn’t have enough cleanse to deal with conditions. That is the thing that makes no sense. If u have enough cleanse to deal with conditions u push them aside. U don’t get enough 0 damage migitation skills for power damage builds either. It’s because u also need to be able to deal damage or burst. Something both power classes and condi damage can do. It’s not wrong. U should be able to die by condi classes just as u can by power classes.

>Heals are great for migtation to lots of conditions. Poision is what affects it. So what? I don’t get this, they are not enough cleanses argument comes from? It makes no sense at a fundamental level. I brought up invulnereability because even condition builds do power damage infact they are hybrids most of the time. Cutting thier power of gives u breating space and helps when u need to buy time or wait for you CD’s to recharge. With dragonhunter it outright heals and allows u to use wings of resolve. revenant heals through it and blocks the onslaught making u waste your CD..s they are viable ways of dealing with conditions in non conventional methofds.

>What personal attacks did I use on you? I don’t care enough for some random person behinds his screen or tablet or other media device to throw insults. Was it the lying part? It’s not meant as an insult. But rather to attack your point. Instead if did offend you or something else I said. Then I apologize. Still i really don’t see any inherent advantage of condis over power be it the frequency and application. The high application allows one to burst. And so far the only classes that can burst frequently are mesmer and chronomancer. Necromancer is so slow that u first need to be locked down then get cleaved by thier lich form. I’d call that an unreliable burst potential really.

Cynz.9437:

I don’t eat 5k direct dmg by attacking someone that is afk. I do eat around 5k condi dmg if i attack condi build thanks to passives/runes etc. Then we also have unblockable and undodgeable condis.
When i fight direct dmg builds i can dodge big hits, heal up, block them etc. When you fight condi builds every hit, every AA applies crap ton of condis, they go through blocks, dodges and reduce amount of healing you do not to mention they have control effect similar to stun, prevent you from attacking (confusion), prevent you from moving (torment, cripple, chill), increase CDs, decrease your dmg etc. Let’s not forget that is impossible to dodge mesmer shatters atm due to delay and clone speed at 200+%. Condis are way more easier to land, are way more frequent and have way more effect than direct dmg hits.

Wait what 5K condi damage? for afk? Who the hell does that?

> Every AA applies a crapton of condi? what are ya talking about?

>Macebow does jackkitten for condi damage on both mace and longbow on auto attack. U’d have to spec tactics for longbow auto attack to deal just only burn

>Chronophantasma shatter deals only bleeding on staff auto attack and torment on scepter auto attack

>Rage zerker deals jackitten on mace and only bleed on autoattack

>corruptionmaner same as above.

Bassically you are flat out lying to me. No auto attack from any condi build deals a crapton of condition damage or condis. Only if u don’t cleanse it after or as squishy as kitten which makes sense considering u are a thief player. autotattacks will mainly confine themselves to 1 or 2 condis.

Confusion and torment do not prevent you from moving at all. It’s not an insta kill move ala kill bill volume 2, ie take 4 steps and u die. that’s nonsensical. torment and confusion have been applied more then enough since the intensity stacking condi era and it never was so ridiculous as you described just yet.

Espically since all meta builds have either condi cleanse, a buffer through heals or HP. The only one that is lacking is thief. Since when do you nessiarily have to dodge condi shatter? Aren’t you the same guy complaining about blocks,boons healing and all the powercreep mumbo jumbo? Ah yes I remember, U were calling trap DH cheese. Which is your main class.

U can list all condi’s from here to there and thier affects. It doesn’t make them OP. It’s exactly as you desrcibed they are conditions, they can vary. they have deliberating effects. U can cleanse them, U can apply resistance, U can outsustain it through heals, invulnerabilities. U can reduce thier duration. And no not all condi’s go through blocks it’s certain builds and runes that do that on occasion mind you. Doesn’t mean that u have to generalise condi’s overall. Because what blocks power damage, what evades power damage will also work for condi builds.

U overexagarate. Or do you think that shield stance, crystal hibernation,, distortion, aegis, shield of courage won’t do the trick at all?

Just an overexagration on your part.

More power builds then condi builds,

Most power builds atm have enough sustain or disenage tactics to deal with conditions. Espically with all the tons of blocks, heals protection boon and all other mumbo jumbo I hear often mentioned.

I will say it again. Conditions are fine.

And then people wonder why guardian mains get frustrated. I really liked Booms post in the thread suggestion for cast time on DH traps.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

No need to. Condition are fine atm. Conditions in this meta have no inherent advantage over power in this meta. Condi Zerker, Chronophantasma and Corruptionmancer are pretty much the only meta condi builds.

Ragezerker can get hardfocused and has almost no disenage oppurtunity.
Burning arrows is just trash.
Condi spam thief is far inferior to it’s D/P and S variant.

We have sigil of purity, sigil of generosity, rune of lyssa, rune of the soldier, rune of leadership.

Then we have runes that affect condi duration. Rune of hoelbrak, rune of melandru rune of resistance.

It’s fine. Conditions should be able to burst as well. Espically since some classes lean to bieng more condi based then not atm. If Power herald can burst, then condi’s should have the same options.

but not every have shouts !

having more choices would be good !

and condi still can burst after they wear out the victim’s condi removals.

You talk as if a condi burst is a bad thing. If they were equal amount of condi removal to the amount of condi’s thrown theyn condi’s become useless. Just like with power if u run out of 0 damage utility skills or endurance u can be bursted down. the thing is the current meta has proven that condis do not have an advantage over power one way or another. The fact that u can make only 3 or 4 meta esque condi builds should really prove it. The moment u go condi temest, or condi thief, or condi dh or condi scrapper. U become utter gargbage really.

U don’t need shouts, they are other runes and sigils that help u aid in said condi removal.

No need to. Condition are fine atm. Conditions in this meta have no inherent advantage over power in this meta. Condi Zerker, Chronophantasma and Corruptionmancer are pretty much the only meta condi builds.

Ragezerker can get hardfocused and has almost no disenage oppurtunity.
Burning arrows is just trash.
Condi spam thief is far inferior to it’s D/P and S variant.

We have sigil of purity, sigil of generosity, rune of lyssa, rune of the soldier, rune of leadership.

Then we have runes that affect condi duration. Rune of hoelbrak, rune of melandru rune of resistance.

It’s fine. Conditions should be able to burst as well. Espically since some classes lean to bieng more condi based then not atm. If Power herald can burst, then condi’s should have the same options.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Oh. And I forgot. The Daze from piercing light must have a cooldown of at least 2 seconds. It must not trigger repeatedly on stacked traps.

Nonsensical.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Increasing activation time alone will not do.

What they need is to go on recharge after they trigger, along a reasonable increase in activation (never more than 1.5s) and a small reduction in recharge and moderate increase in damage for some of them, so a trap can’t be placed right after it triggers, but counts more when it does trigger.

Also, their trigger areas should not be invisible to an enemy team when placed while there’s enemies of that team looking. If you see an enemy placing a trap, you and your allies should be able to see where it is without having to use chat or voice chat to tell them.

AoE skills with reveals or that ‘shake’ the ground like Churning Earth, or at least some of them, should also reveal ther locations.

This way they will return to be what they are supposed to be: a defensive tool and a deterrent.

Are you kidding me? So bassically u want all the tools nessiariy to deal with DH traps?

Do you not realize that we constantly have gotten damage shaves throughout? How are we suppsosed to rely on our heals if it only recharges when it gets triggered? Do you think that having a moderate damage increase and slightly reduced CD will compensate for litterally having our traps seen by everybody and their mother? How are we supposed to strategically place our traps if everybody can see the trigger area and everybody can reveal them? We rely on those traps for more then just damage. It’s also part of our survival. We need to blind, regenration and stability and stunbreak as well.

Come on man. U don’t care about what it’s supposed to be. It was never adverstised as a defensive elite spec. Heck so far most of the classes that use traps use them offensively most of time. They are all either CC, Condi or damage.

You bassically want everybody to have an even easier time dealing with traps other then the ways that are already pressent: Blocks, invulnerabilties, immunity to physical damage, stability, teleports and shadowstep, pets and mesmer clones. Or actually dodging the brunt of the damage.

Yep every kittening time, People ask for more nerfs on DH. U guys will never be satisfied unless the class is unplayable.

Look this is what A-net should kittening do. A-net should do what the OP is doing right now. provide knowledge.

Oh hell no.

>Seeing how people even to recently still complain about kittening Dragonhunters.

>Want kittening warriors nerfed into the ground. As they are immortal anti condi monsters who can also 1 v 4 kitteners on point.

>Or how they are perma evade thiefs.

>Have people complain that condi bomb=no skill at all. And think that condi elementalist>Power elementalist, think dagger/dagger thief>D/P(you guys know who you are). Or how they appearantly need to be enough cleanses to cover conditions killing the entire concept of condi damage.

I’d rather have A-net pick a proffesion representative of each proffesion forums. Heck maby even have a pro leaguer take part in said discussion regarding class balance, if they have time ofcourse regardling class balance. Then have A-net fall in this terrible trap of polls. Because we all kittening know that the moment A-net doesn’t listen to said polls, The forums, reddit will be filled with tons of QQ of how A-net didn’t do exactly what u wanted even if they might have explained that the Polls are just for advice.

Please A-net do not kittening do this. And kitten up this kitten. Since a long time every class can be played atleast in leagues.

Pfft MMR heaven. Lucky you. I’m then in MMR purgatory. I improve at steady pace.

Glad I’m not in MMR hell i guess. Guess I won’t jinx my chances by complaining.

not all premades are dedicated pvp guild teams.

They are guilds that team up for guild missions to earn favour.

Or some of them are friends.

I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if solo querers got intimidated so badly that they actually play worse then then they normally do and get kitten d.

yeah that’s the kittened up thing, literally every class has either access to swiftness en masse or some passive speed boon except guardian. It’s so kittening slow. Espically when u are in combat speed.

U gotta be real here. coming back from a 4 v 5 against most players for minutes on end is going to be rare except for the execptionally good.

I have to agree tough. When a player dc’s for several minutes. Then I’d rather have them stay out. But if u can make it back withn a minute then sure be welcome.

U can class switch before the battle starts. But if u intentionally switch mid game because of an achievement and risk the team losing. Then you are bieng careless and you better stay out.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Can-we-please-have-a-pvp-tutorial-mode/first#post6177717

I made a thread a while ago. And I do think there is something to it? I even outlined how it could be done roughly. Ofcourse there are complications that may arise from doing so, but this is where we have a forum for. To discuss these possible eventualities.

I notice that even in ruby basic concepts are not quite grasped. No rather they are even unknown really. I really think the pvp community myself included would benefit from said tutorial.

It would improve the quality of the matches. I don’t expect a flawless game But if most know the basics. we can focus more on strategy and tactics.

If no tutorial can be made. I wonder what the complications are what prevents it from bieng made?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318
aaah thanks for the comprehensive feed back !
hmmm what if people only lose 1 pip from losing and not extra ?
hmm but yeah you are right, shopping for people with less pips (lower divisions) will happen if we base pip gains on pips difference.

well this concept is based on ultra street fighter 4 ’s player points (pp) and battle points (bp) but i guess it is hard to work here since gw2 spvp is 5v5 and not 1v1 2d combat.

I see, not a bad take. You’d simply have to deal with one issue here and that is making it so balanced that parties do not get an advantage but at the same time not discourage them.

If people do not lose extra pips then, U’ve bassically made matchmaking too easy. Like way easier then season 1. Since people can only lose 1 pip, but at the same time will be guaranteed to win extra pips every few battles . It should still be random. Hmm keep the pip difference. But at the same time when a party is involved. Do indeed multiply thier pips. Maby increase it a little bit to your liking. And have them lose an extra pip from 3 people and up. They’d have a bit more risk. If they win and still happen to be the team with the lower amaount of pips. Then award them thier pips based on your formula. This pretty much is an warning for people thinking they can smurf. It puts them at risk irregardless of thier low division as they will lose extra pips if they lose even if they have lower pips overall. It’s kinda like a safety net.

Your system could work in battling the Dunning kruger effect. It’d pretty much shuts down any complainst about matchmaking since everything is litterally random safe for a few variables (such as time of the day etc). There’d be no way for anybody to complain about bieng stucked with idiots constantly. . They’d have no viable excuse whatsoever. It’d be practically impossible to constanty be matched up with idiots.

The win bonus people with low pips get could incentive people to form teams with as low as pips as possible while having higher mmr till thier pips become too much to not be able to cheat the multiplier u set in for teams. Bassically smurfing will be a thing.

U could in theory manipulate matchmaking to increase the odds of having as low as much overal pips possible.

U could set the limit at 40 pips for yourself team up with 5 high mmr smurf account ambers with 0 ideally pips. And so’’ cheat’’ the system. till u cannot evade the high x5 multiplier anymore. Then make a 4 man party, then a 3 man party and rince and repeat. Sure it’s not a flawless system as in a 4 man party the possibility of having an random who is in diamond or legendary division is also there. However the chance of encountering lower division players will be higher anyways. As the populations is more casual. This problem will however not start in the beginning as differences in divisions will not be seen after a week or 2 or so. But once we have our ruby’s and diamonds and legendary’s matchmaking can be cheated.

It might encourage smurfing and shopping for ambers. And take the randomness aspect of the system out of it.

Your system will work for a few weeks and then u will see more smurfs running around.

U’d have to signficantly increase the multiplier for overall party pips to outright discourage partying up with a ’’friend’’.

U could do that. But then u might actually decrease the pvp population even more. As parties will get punished for having higher pips more often then randoms due to the increased multiplier for party pips overall.

The argument I seem to hear. Is that there is too few condi cleanses for the conditions that it needs to cover. It’s a silly argument. If there was Always enough conditon cleansing for the condtions, Then a condition build would never be able to kill you. You’d kill condi builds. There is no reason as to why condi builds are inherintely superior to power builds from a meta standpoint, Even in wvw power based builds are more frequent there.

Yes conditions melt through toughness and use one stat primarily. Because they can already be entirely cleansed before they even deal damage in the first place, Or even outright ignored through resistance, or migitated through invulnerabilities or 0 damage reduction. It deals damage over time in general. Just because the chronomancer and condi zerker can burst condi doesn’t mean that we need to attack condi’s in general. And even then in this meta Powerbased builds are doing better then the condi builds which only 3 are meta at the moment.

But it goes even further. Often a condi build needs to invest in power because their base damage is so low that they simply cannot apply pressure. It’s why all condi builds are actually hybrids. It’s why carrion and viper amulets are used over rabid and wanderers more often then not.

Condi’s are fine. I have the feeling people have issues moreso with the playstyle which they can view as passive and slow. Thus it’s prolly not honorable enough and then they still losing. While they can accept a loss more when they are under the impression that they opponent is actively chasing them down.

It’sa small group because it’s legend. When one thinks that leagues show absolutely no skill level whatsoever. That there is no difference between an amber player and a ruby player. besides thier bieng tons of complains here about rubies bieng matched with diamonds. Or saphires bieng matched rubies. Or saphires complaining that they have to many emeralds and ambers in thier team. Then I’m of the opinion that divisions to some extent seperate skill. Then add in the concept of similar mmr players on team and others on another team. It means that every team will either have matches with the odds stacked against them or the odds in thier favour ofcourse u can also have equal teams, the chances will get more accomidating the higher your MMR becomes because naturally they are more people with low to average mmr then people with high mmr’s.

People that have low to average MMR and grow thier MMR will at the same time also actually have to increase thier skill level at the same rate or they will end up against a wall.

Bassically I think that u could try and incentise the diamonds to try harder. and maby people with a minimal winrate of 43.29 % i heard. And maby push those to diamond. Then make it so that every legendary can play with any diamond.

But then problem becomes that pro leaguers llikely in legend. It’d be quite a big kitten you for a ruby who just passed into diamond to fight the Abjured or Orange logo as a big welcome and lose 649-0 in legacy of the foefire.

Maby make it so that legend regardless of their standing can team up with anybody that is tier 3 diamond?

I still think that even with A-net giving people more incentive for players to reach legend. that legend will stay pretty small.

no. Thieves are not OP.

LMAO, That blue haired scrub tough. I didn’t know u were on E-sports leveL. Funniest line in this clip.

chibbi.3706:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Warriors do not need a nerf to Adrenal health or thier sustain. Nerfing it’s kittening sustain was the problem in the first kittening place. It was the core problem of season 2. Cause warriors died so kittening easy that not even palladins amulet or soldiers amulet could save thier hide. Warriors have this healing, because they don’t have kitten like protection and regenration and stability en masse and other kittentons of boons to heal themselves or supprt thier blood. AH is litterally their lifeforce. They have a few boons and a bit of stability, that’s it. And even then thier AH is litterally dependent on their ability to hit you. Power warriors and the double melee condi warriors will suffer from this moreso.

I have to agree with Silberfederling. It’s kittening infuriating. This kittened crusade againsts class XYZ. And A-net caving everykittening time.

I don’t think it needs an nerf at all. But if anything should be nerfed it’s the condi damage. And that alone. No nerf to power at all.

NERF CONDI’S A BIT AND EVERYBODY WILL BE HAPPY.

Jesus christ.

The thing that kittenes me of more is that I know that the damage has been done already.

Honestly I wonder why I should even bother. really.

Yes, I’m crusading against my own main class, do you realize how stupid what you’re implying is ?

There’s a middle ground between the garbage AH we had, and the godlike we have now.
perma 450hps is way too much for just a single trait.

Guess u are crusading against your ‘’own main class’. Something I’ve heard many times. then it turns out they know little to outright nothing about thier class. But let’s assume you do. You are still digging kitten for yourself. Look the simple truth is. That we suffer from a powercreep. Things like a middle ground is what is going to get us killed. Also the wrong logic that 450 hp per second is too much for a single trait. It assumes that all classes function the same. However at the same u have to realize that we do not burstheal, we do not get our blocks handed out, have incredibly high stability uptime,invulnerabilties, regenration, disenage mechanics, like stealth gyro or elixer s.. It’s passive sustain through an active action.

It’s not godlike. It’s an over exagaration. Just like how we are immune to condi damage all the time. Besides our berserker stance bieng on a 60 sec CD. Besides it bieng corruptable, besides us having to sacrifice 20 secs of healing from the healing signet if we employ if we want to have another stack of resistance Can 1 v 4 on point besides our stability coming from eternal champion mainly. which is like what. a single stack? for like 3 seconds. We have long CD’s. But that is Always overlooked. Often u hear things like. double endure pain, double resistance, condi cleanse on weapon swap. and that perma 450 heal per seconds. Bassically the arguments are high ends without taking in account. how things actually go in a fight. But it goes even further ragezerkers. have even less condi clear and are full melee class. they lack the 25 percent movement speed increase and have little to no tools to disenage.

Warriors have actuall openings in thier defences. But that is often overlooked. Also how it’s overlooked how they are tons of threads with how matchmaking sucks. Or how class stacking is absolutely terrible, the main culprits bieng DH and Necromancers. But warriors hardly. Heck some of those complainers even play warrior. But that’s odd with thier ’’godlike’’ sustain right? the moment u advocate for a middle ground in this powercreeped meta, u risk falling out of the meta and becoming garbage.

I will say it again. We don’t need a nerf to our sustain. this is similar to DH. Like how they were deemed OP. Well know that we know how to fight against them. The damage has already been done. Supbar DH’s that cannot sustain any form of focus unless they are of a higher skillevel then thier opponents.

This kind of kitten is unhealth for balance. Like look at metabattle 8 classes are meta right now. Why the hell would we risk that all because people cannot that 1/10th of a second to learn how to fight against them? No what will happen is that those that yell the loudest with with thier outright lies and half truths will get thier way and this will happen.

U simply have to accept the truth for what it is. We are in a powercreep. Elite specs have replaced core specs. And now we are on the road to some kind of balance between the elite specs aside from HOT. And we are throwing away all of that because of those unkillable warriors, with God like sustain?

Like why would u as a warrior main bring this up? Espically since we know that A-net has a tendency to sometimes overnerf or overbuff kitten. When warriors are crap again. U will have nobody else to blame for yourself.

When warriors are asked to reroll, get kittented on by the toxic community. Know that this kitten is the reason. More threads will pop-up. On how it’s the fault of the noob for not running a meta build.

The unkillable warrior with that perma 3 stacks of adrenal health and condi cleanse and reistance that also can oneshot everybody. and bunker on point. It’s almost as ridiculous as the more and more ‘Perma Evade’’ thiefs that come up. Warrior mains enabling that loud toxic part of the community. U give them a finger and it’s still not kittening enough. It’s never enough. We have a kittening mesmer(Itchiwen) complaining about a staff thief for crying out load. It’s either oh noes, warriors or thiefs are op. Nerf them into the ground. Or it’s wariors and thiefs are kitten please re-roll scrub.

Anyways, I’m done arguing against this crusade. I will just sit on the sidelines and wait for the balance mobs to do thier leg breaking as usual. This entire kitten is infuriating.

And then I will be there to say that I kittenING TOLD YOU SO.

Warriors do not need a nerf to Adrenal health or thier sustain. Nerfing it’s kittening sustain was the problem in the first kittening place. It was the core problem of season 2. Cause warriors died so kittening easy that not even palladins amulet or soldiers amulet could save thier hide. Warriors have this healing, because they don’t have kitten like protection and regenration and stability en masse and other kittentons of boons to heal themselves or supprt thier blood. AH is litterally their lifeforce. They have a few boons and a bit of stability, that’s it. And even then thier AH is litterally dependent on their ability to hit you. Power warriors and the double melee condi warriors will suffer from this moreso.

I have to agree with Silberfederling. It’s kittening infuriating. This kittened crusade againsts class XYZ. And A-net caving everykittening time.

I don’t think it needs an nerf at all. But if anything should be nerfed it’s the condi damage. And that alone. No nerf to power at all.

NERF CONDI’S A BIT AND EVERYBODY WILL BE HAPPY.

Jesus christ.

The thing that kittenes me of more is that I know that the damage has been done already.

Honestly I wonder why I should even bother. really.

Meta is decent infact I’d almost call it somewhat good. It needs build diveristy and minor adjustments.

The matchmaking is less agressive then season 2. the oveal team mmr difference is smaller.

It’s definately not terrible in my opinon. I’d call it meh. And rate it like an 6 out of 10. there is definately room for improvement.

Actually the title should be, Predicting the state of warriors after the next ‘’balance patch’’

Seeing as the QQ against warriors keeps increasing. Warriors will become fodder next balance patch.

calling it now.

JayAction.9056:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

JayAction.9056:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

JayAction.9056:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

JayAction.9056:

Warrior has always been a class with an extremely low skill ceiling, but the amount of mistakes a person can make on warrior and still perform well makes this class currently extremely op.

I say this as someone with 1.5k hours on warr, and also s1 and s2 legend. Please nerf they are way over the top.

Like every other class except Thief dh and necro’s possibly?

…No

Yeah, Come back when Scrappers, Tempest, Revs and bunker druids have been nerfed. in thier sustain. U think thier is a massive difference in skill ceiling with sustain like that? The more broken the build the lesser the difference in skill ceiling.

Come back when u won’t get 100 to 0 by a chronophantasma shatter.

If you get 100-0 by anything you’re not good bro.

Don’t worry about me Brah. worry about yourself. I’m not the guy claiming asking for nerfs to kittening sustain and call them over the top. How bout u worry about how good u are yourself or u would have called them equal with the other current meta instead of way over the top which implies an inability to deal with them. I was describing it’s potential. Point bieng there are more builds which can make u affort many mistakes and still win. I just don’t like this entire kittening crusade against warriors. you are asking for the wrong kittening nerfs. Nerfs that will kill both power and condi warriors which is kittening annoying.

Clearly you need somebody to be worried about you. I mean you are out here getting 100-0d. That’s kind of embarrassing actually. Warrior is easy mode. That’s why it needs nerfs.

If I can play against somebody and clearly see what they are doing wrong, and yet they are able to perform, the keys they are pressing are too effective. The class needs nerfs.

Dude I never admitted that I was gettin 100-0. Espically when I elaborated on that statement. Rather u need help with reading comprehension. I will say it again if u want to nerf warrior for that reason. U need to nerf other classes as well. It’s as simple as it is. Espically when some classes actually have equal or outright more sustain. So as Deimos put it. U are nothing more then 1 of the other qq’ers who simply want warriors to be easy mode really.

JayAction.9056:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

JayAction.9056:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

JayAction.9056:

Warrior has always been a class with an extremely low skill ceiling, but the amount of mistakes a person can make on warrior and still perform well makes this class currently extremely op.

I say this as someone with 1.5k hours on warr, and also s1 and s2 legend. Please nerf they are way over the top.

Like every other class except Thief dh and necro’s possibly?

…No

Yeah, Come back when Scrappers, Tempest, Revs and bunker druids have been nerfed. in thier sustain. U think thier is a massive difference in skill ceiling with sustain like that? The more broken the build the lesser the difference in skill ceiling.

Come back when u won’t get 100 to 0 by a chronophantasma shatter.

If you get 100-0 by anything you’re not good bro.

Don’t worry about me Brah. worry about yourself. I’m not the guy claiming asking for nerfs to kittening sustain and call them over the top. How bout u worry about how good u are yourself or u would have called them equal with the other current meta instead of way over the top which implies an inability to deal with them. I was describing it’s potential. Point bieng there are more builds which can make u affort many mistakes and still win. I just don’t like this entire kittening crusade against warriors. you are asking for the wrong kittening nerfs. Nerfs that will kill both power and condi warriors which is kittening annoying.

JayAction.9056:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

JayAction.9056:

Warrior has always been a class with an extremely low skill ceiling, but the amount of mistakes a person can make on warrior and still perform well makes this class currently extremely op.

I say this as someone with 1.5k hours on warr, and also s1 and s2 legend. Please nerf they are way over the top.

Like every other class except Thief dh and necro’s possibly?

…No

Yeah, Come back when Scrappers, Tempest, Revs and bunker druids have been nerfed. in thier sustain. U think thier is a massive difference in skill ceiling with sustain like that? The more broken the build the lesser the difference in skill ceiling.

Come back when u won’t get 100 to 0 by a chronophantasma shatter.

Trust me, the clueless people are but a small part of a problem. PvP toxicity is there simply because it’s human nature. Seperating the ’’clueless’’ won’t put a big dent in it all. And it really just justifies why one should be able to act so toxic. And this is not considering the dunning kruger effect.

I litterally had a guy leave mid go far at the start of the match and let it be decapped in less then 10 secs. then starts talking kitten to us.

This also assumes that there is no grey area for casual pvp’ers and league. U can be casual and still play leagues to see how far u can get. This is a game afterall. If u want something entirely serious make your own team and participate in the challenger, pro and WTS. If u play a tournament with an prize pool of like an quarter million then yes then it’s serious bussiness. And not take it out on those who play the game for what it is. There is a risk involved in solo queu. Something that frustrates me as well. And I’m sure I in return frustrate better players then myself and so on and so on.

No need place the rank requirment so high that u weed out an entire demographic of players and make the queues extremly long. Instead A-net should implement proper tutorials and maby even work together with QQ more and Pro league volunteers that are up to task of making a proper up to date in game tutorial and updated forum tutorial with several layers of levels to it. And I mean in game, official so that no player can miss this information.

Balance is on the right path but also very essential. And should be worked upon.

Polish up the bugs, Nothin more annoying then having the outcome of the game decided by something outside of your power.

JayAction.9056:

Warrior has always been a class with an extremely low skill ceiling, but the amount of mistakes a person can make on warrior and still perform well makes this class currently extremely op.

I say this as someone with 1.5k hours on warr, and also s1 and s2 legend. Please nerf they are way over the top.

Like every other class except Thief dh and necro’s possibly?

RedZebra.2345:

would be alot of work for them. But maybe they can set different groups of training npc’s, (new players don’t want heavy npc’s) ex. 3 lvls easy, hard, very hard (npc’s interact etc). Rotation y lol, rotation is something you can’t put in a tutorial, rotation is adaptive and also somethimes personal preferences (causing some people don’t fit together sometimes).

true rotation is more something adaptive indeed. But u can learn basic rotational strategies. and atleast learn what helps and what doesn’t. I believe the bare basics of everything including rotations can be compressed in a tutorial. To atleast stimulate the process of problem solving and considering variables in decision making. Infact QQ more net has the mantra, Where not to rotate. It’s not exactly a guid but rather it opens you up to thinking differently. with a small explanation. It’s bassically akin to a drivers license exam. Learn in such a fashion to the basics and u atleast will prevent offpoint figthing when it’s not nessisary. It was in one of my matches litterally why we lost. 476 -500.

While matches are not blowouts. or lessend and less agressive then season 2 something i comment a-net on. We could atleast try to lessen the gap for average and newbies by other means since mmr is similar.

RedZebra.2345:

would be alot of work for them. But maybe they can set different groups of training npc’s, (new players don’t want heavy npc’s) ex. 3 lvls easy, hard, very hard (npc’s interact etc).

Ok if they cannot afford a tutorial mode, Give new players average mmr, do not seperate solo que and team que.

Then atleast edit the training npc’s for kitten sake. And the very least make the standard build for each class similar to the current meta build. And not some stupid mix and mash. Because that mix and mash is where the player with average mmr is going to work with till he finds out that there are more effective builds. I’m not good enough to carry. But atleast good enough to not die instantly, disenage when need to, stomp when need to, kite, and go out los. hold. not fight offpoint. If the effort for a tutorial is too much. Atleast make the standard builds closer to current meta for Hot. And closer to the previous meta for core game players.

Instead of whining. I want to offer a suggestion. Can we all have like a proper pvp tutorial mode that is repeatable. and outlines the basics in several tiers of difficulty? So that new and veteran players have something new to learn myself included. I’m not doing too terribad atm, however the focus should not lie with me as I’m sure i make mistakes and can improve. I will keep the complaining short. So bassically I breezed from amber all the way to tier 4 saphire. I had a few losses and all of a sudden I notice what i’d call an influx of new players. Seemingly

>I saw staff guardians more and more in my team. sometimes not even running shouts but spirit weapons or signets

>A core warrior running 2 sword, and a rifle. running a marauder amulet build and rune of the berserker. claiming he can do quite a bit of bleeding damage at 15 stacks. which is sole condition aside from the tormnet offered from the offhand sword. I try to explain him that it won’t work as it can get cleansed easily and that no player will just wait here for you to deal those stacks. Also they are better weapons with higher damage modifers for the marauder amulet. Well after a nice convo it sseemed he was adamant in his build so i left it at that.

>2 necro’s going far. geting insta kitten d for like no good reason whatsoever.

>Offpoint figthing.

>10 secs wipe on mid(all 4 downed). I cannot ress them as there is lots of cleave I disengage cap far. fight 3 guys for 20 secs, get the neutralize and die.(there is prolly a better tactic)

Look I’m not having a big losing streak. Not at all. I’m having a 50 percent winrate. Unfortunately it’s W,L, W, L , W, L and not W,W,W or L.L.L. Ok but that’s not the problem i want to adress. And I never actually rage, dc or afk unless said player start raging at me. I will not ever hold it to players for making such mistakes as yes I too can improve. What however frustrates me is the pathetic state the tutorial is in. And how it litterally throws new players in the lions den.

Like seriously there is hardly a pvp tutorial which isn’t even repeatable.

The npc’s are still core classes even this far in the game. I honestly find it a waste really to see staff guardians core guardians with signets and spirit weapons in saphire division. While I know that a quick look at meta battle could net a new player with so much more effective build. Espically since newer players think of DH as OP due to the traps it would really even out odds. And what if those new players make it to ruby with thier signet staff guardians? Well appearantly some of them have. looking at some threads here.

This is what i suggest.

>At moment a new player enters pvp ,thier basic standard pvp build is a stadard current meta build. If however the player has Hot. it will be the best core build of a previous or current meta. For example, Hot players have meditrapper and core have dps medi marauder guardian.

>Repeatable tutorial mode. A tutorial mode divided into several sections of quests one can complete.

Bassically

:Rotation

:Combat

:Map awarness and Map effects(includes positioning and kiting.)

:Basic overall current class meta information,hardcounters.

: In depth elite and core(previous) meta build guide.

: simulated practice match vs npc’s mimicking current meta builds.

:communication

:after match combat statistics

I honestly feel that so much more can be acomplished by adding this.

messiah.1908:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

messiah.1908:

with cleric i get 280 regen hps, water sigil 600 every 5 sec, and with healing well another 2k healing. so more support for team
i take TW against heavy condi group with resistance and slow while my team has quickness it adds up. GW is nice if my team lack cc (rarely does) . so the cd is half with cs.

still with paladin i found it hard when i am being focused by thief or rev. so more armor is always nice versus direct dmg. also you have to choose what you play bruiser/bunker/support so if bruiser there are better builds/class for it than mesmer.

Odd to hear. Revenants and thiefs don’t really seem to be a problem for me. But that might change.

hmm yeah the healing is incredible made a mistake there is indeed a 2 k extra heal.But yeah my goal is to deal damage as well then outright bunker. I should prolly see if there is a way to add nullfield. as well. It’s definately handy for condi cleansing.

i am not talking 1v1 veruses thief or rev rather in group fight when one of them target you. you hardly can support your team. and if you are the only support than its all depends on your team skill to win the fight without you

i had a fight versus 2 warrior. i was focused by them both. manage to stay alive in 4v4 till it was 2v4. than i went down.

null field is a must in this meta. as it can shut down necro/warrior/mesmer on a point

still weird. Because even then I don’t exactly go down even when bieng focused in a teamfight. I even managed to pull multple resses. But yeah i will implement nullfield. is a very good choice indeed.

Fay.2357:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

Statistically speaking, having bad players in the PvP pool is beneficial to you, if you’re a good player. Since you, as a good player, are on your team, you can only have a maximum of 4 other players that are awful. However, the other team can have 5. Over time, this gives you a statistical advantage over the other team you are truly a good player.

Do I get dumb people on my team? Sure, I got somebody that tried to res my clones repeatedly…but then you also see people this dumb on the other team too. The system isn’t targeting you to get placed with all the stupid people, it doesn’t hold some sort of grudge. On average, the other team will be just as dumb as yours. If you are able to raise the average skill level of your team, you will have a better than average win rate.

Additionally, a good and smart player can have an unbalanced effect on a match. Instead of just moaning about how your team rotates poorly, change how you play so that it complements the way the rest of your team is acting. As the only intelligent member on the team, it’s up to you to effectively analyze the game and determine how you need to play to best win.

On top of all of that, a 50% win rate is enough to progress even through ruby and diamond. 3 losses followed by 3 wins is a net gain of 2 pips. Therefor, even if you’re convinced that the system is forcing you to a 50% winrate, you still are able to make progress through the leagues.

Tl;dr: If you’re actually as good a player as you think you are, you’ll win a majority of the time anyway, regardless of the teams you get. If you’re still continuously losing, maybe you need to start thinking about blaming yourself instead of just the rest of your team.

Sure. Fair points. I completely understand.

These are all true assuming the bad players are not worse than the bad players on the other team. Had this happen to me before haha.

Also what you said is also true atleast until ruby because you cannot lose tiers. Now with ruby, one unlucky streak you have with roll of players you have might be more detrimental for you.

I mean it’s still about luck getting atleast better members on your team relative to the other team.

But again that luck is not getting any better without a decent player population that is big enough to atleast mitigate those horrid pvp experiences.

Also in regards to what you said, it still requires the perfect class for the job, I think even if you are better than your teammates, you will not keep them alive indefinitely if they die most the time in a team fight. you can’t bunker a point all game either.

It’s not about luck, it’s about averages. Over time, you’ll have just as many awful players with you as you will see against you. Over time, it balanced out. In any given match it won’t be perfectly even, but over 100 matches it will be very very close.

As I said, the system doesn’t hold a grudge against you. It’s not purposefully matching you with the worst players every time. Sometimes you’ll get worse ones, sometimes you’ll get better ones, and over time this all comes out to the average. If you, as a good player, are able to shift your team’s average higher, then you’ll win more.

Additionally, 50% winrate will get you through ruby and diamond, as I already said. Winning and losing the exact same amount of games will result in a positive pip amount 100% of the time. If you lose 3 or more, the next win gets you 2 pips instead of 1. If you win 3 or more, each win will give 2 pips. However, it is impossible to lose more than 1 pip at a time. This means that random variation in win and loss streaks will always result in a net gain of pips, allowing you to progress.

So the only downside here is to wait for the system to average out, which as you said might be atleast ~100 games, which is really putting super casual people at a disadvantage?

Of course me myself do not have any problem with the system at all, as you’ve said it does not really purposely punish you.

That was the point of my post, I think its not even the matchmaking system, it just does it job (50% win ratio, matching opponents) but the only thing that makes the result so different than its intention is that the awful/average player population is so big that the Matchmaker gets its variables from this pool hence you get these bad experiences on the forums.

Strictly speaking it puts super casual people at a disadvantage…but someone playing that little couldn’t hit legendary even with 100% winrate, so it’s not really relevant.

Most of the complaints you see here are from people who have played many games and are still stuck with no progress. You see the same themes over and over, ‘oh I always get bad teams, oh they don’t know how to rotate, oh I’m so much better than these people’.

No. If these people complaining actually were better, if they actually were skilled and intelligent, they wouldn’t have a 35% win rate across 150 matches. This is simply a case of self-delusion, people convinced that they’re great players when the reality is entirely different. That’s all.

I’d instead say that those people that were better then those ’’scrub’’s are actually just slightly better. The thing is I wouldn’t all throw it on self delusion. Because certain mistakes are really just horrible. I think sticklerhappy and you are both right. The thing is people that complain overestimate themselves in thier skill level to a point that they are vastly better then thier teammates. While the difference could be that they are simply not stupid enough tripple cap home. Or skilled enough to not get wiped instantly.

I think that a problem would be that the ‘’average people’’ are not skilled enough to carry the ‘’baddies.’’ Hence u see close matches but them still having a very long losing streak. this kinda eliminates the ability to carry and kinda depents on which team makes the less mistakes. Because no matter how bad your team u will Always have 1 in a 3rd chance of meeting a team better equal or worse then you. I believe in that cases matches are more depent on chance then MM.

However if u were to match somewhat good players with average people going by sticklerhappy’s example. U will see wins but the gap isn’t that incredibly wide.

I think the bigger problem is.

Within that 80 percent of average/bad and newer people.

The average are simply not good enough to carry the bad and new people.

If u have 2 teams.

team 1 Team 2

5(average) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
3(new) 4(bad

average team mmr on both teams = 4

U will see that the influence of the average player is simply not enough to make a big difference. ‘’Often those threads start with. I’m not considering myself a good or pro player but average or slightly above averge or decent’’ with them often having played between 1 and 2 k games. By that time u can prolly give them the benefit of the doubt and consider them good enough to know the bare basics and not tripple cap or get insta wiped on mid.

I think the solution would be to not just attract more people. But bridge the gap between players who are average, bad and new. By actually expanding on a turtorial area. Have it actually simulate a match. And add several tiers of turtorial levels with varriying difficulties.

And for crying out loud. Update all the battle npc’s in heart of the mists with elite specialisations. So that new and bad players actually get to learn basic skills. Like to not stand in traps,

The thing is. U can only go to the tutorial area once. Heck I’m not even sure there is even a tutorial area atm.

So in short

>update the battle npc’s with elite specs

>Make tutorial repeatable and add several simulations of an practice match.

I believe if more people are average then the burden of carrying will be lessend.

You missed an important point though. Go back and take a look at my analysis as to why a 50% winrate guarantees progression 100% of the time.

Due to that fact, your analysis is wrong. These people don’t come complaining that they’re progressing slowly, they’re complaining that they’re not progressing at all, even in tier-locked divisions like sapphire and emerald.

In order to not progress at all, you actually have to be substantially worse than the average. You have to lose most of your games. These people complaining aren’t just ‘a bit better than average’ as you’re hypothesizing, they’re actually far worse than average.

I see. That actually makes sense. U are bound to win really. If we assume u will lose to teams with an higher mmr. And win equal amount to losses vs teams of equal mmr and win against teams with lower mmr’s u should have indeed a 50 percent winrate atleast. Actually they are also below average really. They are simply a tad bit better then worse people in thier team.

edit: deborah got a point there, u have to absuse the 2 pip win system.

wolfer.1587:

If you are better than the average player you are matched with you should be gaining pips. Your team has 4 of them and the other team has 5, so your team should be a bit better because of you.

I honestly think that they aren’t exactly bullkittenting by saying they are better then thier teammates. Rather they are only slightly better so they cannot carry.

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

Statistically speaking, having bad players in the PvP pool is beneficial to you, if you’re a good player. Since you, as a good player, are on your team, you can only have a maximum of 4 other players that are awful. However, the other team can have 5. Over time, this gives you a statistical advantage over the other team you are truly a good player.

Do I get dumb people on my team? Sure, I got somebody that tried to res my clones repeatedly…but then you also see people this dumb on the other team too. The system isn’t targeting you to get placed with all the stupid people, it doesn’t hold some sort of grudge. On average, the other team will be just as dumb as yours. If you are able to raise the average skill level of your team, you will have a better than average win rate.

Additionally, a good and smart player can have an unbalanced effect on a match. Instead of just moaning about how your team rotates poorly, change how you play so that it complements the way the rest of your team is acting. As the only intelligent member on the team, it’s up to you to effectively analyze the game and determine how you need to play to best win.

On top of all of that, a 50% win rate is enough to progress even through ruby and diamond. 3 losses followed by 3 wins is a net gain of 2 pips. Therefor, even if you’re convinced that the system is forcing you to a 50% winrate, you still are able to make progress through the leagues.

Tl;dr: If you’re actually as good a player as you think you are, you’ll win a majority of the time anyway, regardless of the teams you get. If you’re still continuously losing, maybe you need to start thinking about blaming yourself instead of just the rest of your team.

Sure. Fair points. I completely understand.

These are all true assuming the bad players are not worse than the bad players on the other team. Had this happen to me before haha.

Also what you said is also true atleast until ruby because you cannot lose tiers. Now with ruby, one unlucky streak you have with roll of players you have might be more detrimental for you.

I mean it’s still about luck getting atleast better members on your team relative to the other team.

But again that luck is not getting any better without a decent player population that is big enough to atleast mitigate those horrid pvp experiences.

Also in regards to what you said, it still requires the perfect class for the job, I think even if you are better than your teammates, you will not keep them alive indefinitely if they die most the time in a team fight. you can’t bunker a point all game either.

It’s not about luck, it’s about averages. Over time, you’ll have just as many awful players with you as you will see against you. Over time, it balanced out. In any given match it won’t be perfectly even, but over 100 matches it will be very very close.

As I said, the system doesn’t hold a grudge against you. It’s not purposefully matching you with the worst players every time. Sometimes you’ll get worse ones, sometimes you’ll get better ones, and over time this all comes out to the average. If you, as a good player, are able to shift your team’s average higher, then you’ll win more.

Additionally, 50% winrate will get you through ruby and diamond, as I already said. Winning and losing the exact same amount of games will result in a positive pip amount 100% of the time. If you lose 3 or more, the next win gets you 2 pips instead of 1. If you win 3 or more, each win will give 2 pips. However, it is impossible to lose more than 1 pip at a time. This means that random variation in win and loss streaks will always result in a net gain of pips, allowing you to progress.

So the only downside here is to wait for the system to average out, which as you said might be atleast ~100 games, which is really putting super casual people at a disadvantage?

Of course me myself do not have any problem with the system at all, as you’ve said it does not really purposely punish you.

That was the point of my post, I think its not even the matchmaking system, it just does it job (50% win ratio, matching opponents) but the only thing that makes the result so different than its intention is that the awful/average player population is so big that the Matchmaker gets its variables from this pool hence you get these bad experiences on the forums.

Strictly speaking it puts super casual people at a disadvantage…but someone playing that little couldn’t hit legendary even with 100% winrate, so it’s not really relevant.

Most of the complaints you see here are from people who have played many games and are still stuck with no progress. You see the same themes over and over, ‘oh I always get bad teams, oh they don’t know how to rotate, oh I’m so much better than these people’.

No. If these people complaining actually were better, if they actually were skilled and intelligent, they wouldn’t have a 35% win rate across 150 matches. This is simply a case of self-delusion, people convinced that they’re great players when the reality is entirely different. That’s all.

I’d instead say that those people that were better then those ’’scrub’’s are actually just slightly better. The thing is I wouldn’t all throw it on self delusion. Because certain mistakes are really just horrible. I think sticklerhappy and you are both right. The thing is people that complain overestimate themselves in thier skill level to a point that they are vastly better then thier teammates. While the difference could be that they are simply not stupid enough tripple cap home. Or skilled enough to not get wiped instantly.

I think that a problem would be that the ‘’average people’’ are not skilled enough to carry the ‘’baddies.’’ Hence u see close matches but them still having a very long losing streak. this kinda eliminates the ability to carry and kinda depents on which team makes the less mistakes. Because no matter how bad your team u will Always have 1 in a 3rd chance of meeting a team better equal or worse then you. I believe in that cases matches are more depent on chance then MM.

However if u were to match somewhat good players with average people going by sticklerhappy’s example. U will see wins but the gap isn’t that incredibly wide.

I think the bigger problem is.

Within that 80 percent of average/bad and newer people.

The average are simply not good enough to carry the bad and new people.

If u have 2 teams.

team 1 Team 2

5(average) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
3(new) 4(bad

average team mmr on both teams = 4

U will see that the influence of the average player is simply not enough to make a big difference. ‘’Often those threads start with. I’m not considering myself a good or pro player but average or slightly above averge or decent’’ with them often having played between 1 and 2 k games. By that time u can prolly give them the benefit of the doubt and consider them good enough to know the bare basics and not tripple cap or get insta wiped on mid.

I think the solution would be to not just attract more people. But bridge the gap between players who are average, bad and new. By actually expanding on a turtorial area. Have it actually simulate a match. And add several tiers of turtorial levels with varriying difficulties.

And for crying out loud. Update all the battle npc’s in heart of the mists with elite specialisations. So that new and bad players actually get to learn basic skills. Like to not stand in traps,

The thing is. U can only go to the tutorial area once. Heck I’m not even sure there is even a tutorial area atm.

So in short

>update the battle npc’s with elite specs

>Make tutorial repeatable and add several simulations of an practice match.

I believe if more people are average then the burden of carrying will be lessend.

messiah.1908:

with cleric i get 280 regen hps, water sigil 600 every 5 sec, and with healing well another 2k healing. so more support for team
i take TW against heavy condi group with resistance and slow while my team has quickness it adds up. GW is nice if my team lack cc (rarely does) . so the cd is half with cs.

still with paladin i found it hard when i am being focused by thief or rev. so more armor is always nice versus direct dmg. also you have to choose what you play bruiser/bunker/support so if bruiser there are better builds/class for it than mesmer.

Odd to hear. Revenants and thiefs don’t really seem to be a problem for me. But that might change.

hmm yeah the healing is incredible made a mistake there is indeed a 2 k extra heal.But yeah my goal is to deal damage as well then outright bunker. I should prolly see if there is a way to add nullfield. as well. It’s definately handy for condi cleansing.