Elite Specializations & Hero Point Feedback [Merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Xernth.8561
Given your thread title, and this being a message board, I just posted my constructive feedback to the change.
With regard to your idea, it isn’t better than keeping reset on Friday. Having reset on Friday night:
1) Ensures the match is undecided when the most people can play for the entire weekend
2) Gives a definitive time to organize in an evening when you can be reasonably sure enemy organized groups will be out there also.
Making reset Sunday messes up #1 because now Friday night will bring out less people, and no one will even maintain the illusion what gets done “matters” because most of the time the match will be decided.
Having reset in the middle of the week messes up #2 because its not the weekend and real life intrudes. Sure, people will still show up for reset night, but common sense says there will be less of them and for shorter periods of time. Yes, I’m aware some people work weekends.
Lets be honest, very few really care who wins or loses because as you note there’s no real incentive to care and the matchmaking is so unbalanced no amount of caring matters in many situations. The important part is maintaining the illusion to ourselves it matters, which is why moving reset night is a mistake.
Its a really bad idea.
This seems like a really terrible and poorly thought through idea.
You get 10 weapon skills, the same as many classes. You get 10 active utility skills when everyone else gets 5, with the only caveat being you have to choose your utility skills from 5 batches of 5 rather than the ~30ish everyone else picks 5 from.
Having 10 active utility skills is extremely useful and potentially makes a single character able to do a lot of different things within the same fight.
Naturally if you’re one of the people that enjoys swapping utilities based on the situation out of combat and the batches don’t suffice, you’re going to like a different class better.
Similarly, if you can’t find two batches that are fun to support the play style you’re looking for, Revenant probably isn’t for you.
Meteor Storm
The End
The cooldown for Eye for an Eye is way too high. Please make the Protection the lion’s share of value in the trait and the Taunt an afterthought versus the way it is now. Protection is useful in every game mode, please make Eye for an Eye as close to Protection Injection(Engi) as is reasonable.
Looks like its working as intended. You’re only supposed to get free activations from facet pulsing once per three seconds. Which seems pretty reasonable really. babysitting turning on each facet at exactly the right millisecond would be a horrible mechanic.
A 45!! second cooldown for 5 seconds of Protection from the trait Eye for an Eye can’t possibly be right. Redeeming Protection had a 5 second cooldown for 3 seconds of Protection, please give us that back.
(edited by Xernth.8561)
The combination of the two Master Retribution traits into Eye for an Eye seemed like it was intended to be a buff, but now it has a 45 second ICD? Didn’t that used to be a 10 or 15 second ICD on the Protection when it was standalone?
A 45 second ICD is terrible, please give us back the Protection without the Taunt on the shorter cooldown.
mav, my plan is to use Hammer and Mace/Axe with a focus on power, condi dmg and toughness for wvw with Herald and Shiro.
for huge fights hang back with hammer until you find some people split from the melee and then teleport to them and go nuts with Mace and Condis. I think you’ll have a tough time trying to run with the frontline and condis, but using them away from the melee train should work.
Just please leave us Steadfast Rejuvenation in Retribution at GM.
Pulsating Pestilence and Diabolic Inferno in Corruption are both terrible. The former has no gating and its a small PBAoE so its entirely possible the cooldown will be triggered when there is no one in range to copy the conditions to without evening commenting on the RNG nature of it to begin with. The latter is a PBAoE burn when you use an Elite skill, woefully underpowered.
At least with the change to Maniacal Persistance there is one GM Corruption trait that is better than the first minor.
In sPvP my typical rotation is:
Frigid Blitz > Searing Fissure > Echoing Eruption > Jade Winds > Temporal Rift.
Within a few seconds I’m out of energy with no means of making it increase quicker. The only thing to do is slow the burst down so much, it’s no longer a burst.
If you land all that you’re supposed to be out of energy. If you could do all of those things and then do a bunch more it wouldn’t be a burst, it would be sustained.
Working as intended.
I’m not suggesting it isn’t working as intended. All I was highlighting was the fact that you’re instantly out of energy and unable to use any additional skills for a lengthy period of time. Unlike the thief, the revenant has no means to gain additional energy, which is what the original poster was talking about.
As a side point, I love the fact that people are objecting to his idea of allowing the revenant to gain some additional energy (through skills or traits) which is proven to have worked well on the thief and yet you’re resisting it for…what?
I’m “resisting” because I don’t think you’re case is very strong.
You’re using an elite in your opening rotation, telling us how strong it is (and you’re right) and then saying you’re out of energy.
The thing is, any additional energy management tools are going to be met with skill nerfs. I’d prefer to use fewer abilities and have them be really good than to have to string together many abilities that cost less, or increase available energy and have a corresponding loss in effectiveness.
Having said that, there’s a ton of gray area of course, and some tweaks might make sense to energy costs/regen/etc, but I don’t think its in a bad place at the moment given our powerful skills and their cooldowns.
(edited by Xernth.8561)
In sPvP my typical rotation is:
Frigid Blitz > Searing Fissure > Echoing Eruption > Jade Winds > Temporal Rift.
Within a few seconds I’m out of energy with no means of making it increase quicker. The only thing to do is slow the burst down so much, it’s no longer a burst.
If you land all that you’re supposed to be out of energy. If you could do all of those things and then do a bunch more it wouldn’t be a burst, it would be sustained.
Working as intended.
Apologies if this is the world’s dumbest question, but is Crusader a stat combination?
Well, yeah, if you don’t count all those other utilities or elites…
But, it’s fine according to their metrics as they released in the info graphic some time ago that 80% of players NEVER CHANGE THEIR UTILITIES.
NEVER CHANGING
is not the same as
NOT BEING ABLE TO MAKE A CHOICE IN THE FIRST PLACE
Yes, its solved. When Condi’s get put on you, you have Mallyx, a ton of -condi duration and tough it out, friends or you get killed.
Working as intended.
Pulsing Pestilance is pretty bad because there is no gating on it, is completely passive and its only even marginal use is if you are in melee. When you are hit, if you have as few as one condition on you, it has a chance to trigger and its “AoE” radius is only 240. There are plenty of chances for it to trigger and be put on cooldown even if there are no targets to copy to.
It would be useful defensively if it transferred one or more conditions to targets on that cooldown, but as it stands it is really terrible.
Diabolic Inferno is also really conditional and not very good. A 360 degree radius burn is nice but its not at your target but rather a PBAoE so you have to be in melee. Of course in melee in a situation with a number of enemies (the only scenario you’re getting much mileage out of the AoE), spending 50 energy on an Elite is energy you’re probably going to want to stay alive with Riposting Shadows. There is also the matter of pure effectiveness. 4 seconds of burn isn’t gamebreaking its nice but how often can you justify using elites to trigger it? Not nearly often enough to be good.
(edited by Xernth.8561)
This analysis is very good.
Maniacal Persistance is fine as one of the three options other then it is horribly underpowered. The biggest issue is not having a viable trait in that spot for condition builds because the other two are flavorful but terrible.
Please give us at least one general use Corruption grandmaster moderately attractive to a condition build across game modes and/or buff Maniacal Persistance to an appropriate level.
A condi-user would take the first minor trait over these grandmaster traits as they stand if they could.
Nice feedback, when you lay it all out like this it is easy to see how terrible Revenant traits are. They would have been lackluster back before the other class traits revamps where a bunch of terrible traits got merged together to make a decent one.
Revenants still have a pile of terrible, situational, traits.
The Corruption Grandmaster traits need to be looked at.
Diabolic Inferno is 4seconds of PBAoE Burn on a 10 second cooldown that has a gating criteria of requiring you to use an Elite skill. The Elite skills take 50 Energy and aren’t the kind of things it seems you’ll be able to spam every 10 seconds making this trait terrible. It would be decent (Dhuumfire like) if it applied burning on your target when you hit it with a 10 second cooldown, AoE or not.
Maniacal Persistance increases crit chance 2% per second until you crit when it resets. Given that the number of attacks a typical character throws out in combat, a reasonable expectation is this bonus will be 4-8% most of the time, probably closer to 4, and we’ve already heard that a GM trait giving 10% crit while under Fury is woefully underpowered and will be bumped to 20%. 4-8% static crit chance for a GM trait (in the condition tree) is terrible, please reconsider.
Pulsating Pestilance has a 15% chance to copy conditions on you to nearby (240) foes with a 15 second cooldown. While interesting in concept, in implementation it is also very conditional and woefully underpowered. With no gate on the number of conditions to trigger, this is entirely RNG and very likely the majority of the time it will trigger with very few conditions on you and/or no enemies nearby and then go on a 15 second cooldown. Its flavorful and terrible, not good in any sense.
Please give us at least one GM Corruption trait that has general application across situations and game modes that a player using conditions would want to take. I’d take a static +100 condition damage over any of these traits, heck, I’d take a second chance and cooldown on Rampant Vex, the first Corruption Minor over any of these GM traits.
Please just give a UI option to turn them off completely.
Just started in the new area, do these people ever stop talking so the game can be played?
And the traits..
The feedback in this thread is great. I agree with SolarDragon that having two healing abilities feels like a disadvantage rather than an advantage because the Shiro heal in particular is so weak.
This problem doesn’t come from double heal (Jalis heal is great, imagine 2 of them), but from Shiro’s heal, and this has been addressed in multiple reviews and feedback.
Since we don’t know which of the feedback threads the Dev is going to pay most attention to, it makes sense to “cross pollinate” the most important feedback into multiple threads. Of course this could get out of hand, but it is consistent messaging, the same reason most brands have a slogan or tagline.
Being able to choose from a small list of utility abilities for each Legend would be a huge boon, and wouldn’t necessarily be overpowered, though it could be. It would go a long ways for customization.
The feedback in this thread is great. I agree with SolarDragon that having two healing abilities feels like a disadvantage rather than an advantage because the Shiro heal in particular is so weak.
Can we get the Corruption Grandmaster traits looked at?
Diabolic Inferno is 4seconds of PBAoE Burn on a 10 second cooldown that has a gating criteria of requiring you to use an Elite skill. The Elite skills take 50 Energy and aren’t the kind of things it seems you’ll be able to spam every 10 seconds making this trait terrible. It would be decent (Dhuumfire like) if it applied burning on your target when you hit it with a 10 second cooldown, AoE or not.
Maniacal Persistance increases crit chance 2% per second until you crit when it resets. Given that the number of attacks a typical character throws out in combat, a reasonable expectation is this bonus will be 4-8% most of the time, probably closer to 4, and we’ve already heard that a GM trait giving 10% crit while under Fury is woefully underpowered and will be bumped to 20%. 4-8% static crit chance for a GM trait (in the condition tree) is terrible, please reconsider.
Pulsating Pestilance has a 15% chance to copy conditions on you to nearby (240) foes with a 15 second cooldown. While interesting in concept, in implementation it is also very conditional and woefully underpowered. With no gate on the number of conditions to trigger, this is entirely RNG and very likely the majority of the time it will trigger with very few conditions on you and/or no enemies nearby and then go on a 15 second cooldown. Its flavorful and terrible, not good in any sense.
Please give us at least one GM Corruption trait that has general application across situations and game modes that a player using conditions would want to take. I’d take a static +100 condition damage over any of these traits, heck, I’d take a second chance and cooldown on Rampant Vex, the first Corruption Minor over any of these GM traits.
(edited by Xernth.8561)
You’d have to increase the base cooldowns then of all the good signets which would wreck all the signet builds.
Way overpowered.
PvE. That’s what I’m wondering. Why this red-hot hatred towards “PvE”? You say you want things to be more fun and challenging? How? By removing “PvE” from the map completely, meaning no keeps and no towers and no lords? No verticality? Personally, I find that boring and uninteresting.
Of course, a flat slate with no objectives wouldn’t be interesting for long either.
There is still a reasonable case that the focus of a WvW environment should be on the other players, not the PvE mechanics, and in my personal and singular opinion the new map doesn’t balance the two very well.
When do we get to see the actual new WvW maps? The ones where we fight players to control objectives, not kill dinosaurs and turn into lava puppies.
I think you’re vastly underselling Staff as a WvW dps weapon. While its true you can’t have all of the amazing Water and Arcana abilities for support and also do a lot of damage, if you’re willing to live without the area cleansing because your teammates are taking care of it, you can pump out a ton of damage and control.
Honestly, I really like a lot of the discussion on this forum; though it would be great if you guys could go a little easier on each other.
Burr, I liked your non-Longbow thread and it sparked a lot of good ideas and conversation. Not finding the answer you wanted isn’t a disaster; keep starting the conversations and good things will come from them.
FC has a great community and outstanding WvW; come join us.
Stability changes are bad. You cannot outrun anymore zergs. You ’’ ll die easily.
This game is purely becoming a game of numbers and not skills.
I miss gw2 first daysGame of numbers? Nah, it is a game of dishonest whinners in my opinon.
if your so SKILLED, why do you need stability as your crutch? I will tell you why. Because you were no where near as skilled as you claim to be. This so called “skill”, was nothing more then stacking of the most OP build on the most OP professions,
All of this “wah is me. The sky is falling because they took my OP crutch away” whinning takes away any hope you had of claiming “skill” to validate anything.
I think several people have pointed out, in reasoned tones, why they think this is a bad change for wvw. The counter argument appears to be “LOL L2P NOOB”. Which is at best non-substantive and at worse just trolling.
How about you go away, think about it, and come back with why you think the stability change makes WvW a better place.
I already did my friend. Threw up my pin on my engineer last night for hours. Used some new tactics and thrived. Do not get angry at me because they removed your crutch and it crippled you, while some of us adjusted, thrived, and enjoyed it.
Lol. I’m not angry with you at all. But you still haven’t said why it’s a good change. Instead you basically said that you are awesome and I need to get over my crutch. Which may be true, but doesn’t explain why the change is good for more people.
Actually, I ha e been very specific about it. You are simply obtusely ignoring it. As I said before. I felt it was an over powered crutch that allowed players to ignore entire utility skill sets of many professions. As well, every single profession has vast CC options. Every profession does not have vast access to stability. Personally, after my experience with the adjustments I made last night, I am baffled by some of the complaints here. Folks are crying because the keep repeating the same tactics and they are not working. I make adjustments with successful results and am attacked because I didn’t join in the pity party.
Actually, you still haven’t said anything specific.
All you have said is you found a way to adjust that maintained or increased your effectiveness from pre-patch. Since you haven’t specified how you did so, you haven’t credibly answered the question.
I am happy for you that you have a solution, and honestly I don’t care if you divulge it or not. But you haven’t given any of the rest of us any reason to believe you until you add some specifics of value.
I agree that there are ways to adjust to the impact of these changes. My way is to play Staff Ele more, which already brought a very useful skill set to WvW. In my opinion, the stability changes have vastly increased the effectiveness of my Ele and I’ll probably play it more. This is an example of a specific adjustment which can be evaluated by the community.
Personally, I agree with Kodiak’s points. The healthiest situation would now be to put a stack counter on CC abilities. While this would lead to bad outcomes, like sending in tanky people to soak up cc, the flipside is GTAOE CC abilities are very, very strong now. A situation that probably isn’t ideal from a game design perspective; though since you play engineer I can understand why you are attracted to having CC be very powerful.
Lack of an open field means less ways to get places, making it less likely your opponents will be in a lot of places, making roamers less needed, which in summary means more reason for people to be in a big group.
People keep asserting the new map will discourage zerging, yet I haven’t seen a plausible case made for why that will be true.
The parts I object to are jump pads, wind turrets to knock people off cliffs, being able to transform into lava puppy dogs and other absurd mechanics that take away from playing your class against other players.
And doing the Silverwastes pick up and run cores mini-event, only with Dinosaurs in a pvp zone is just horrible.
Honestly, it really doesn’t have to be so difficult. We don’t need anything complicated for a fun WvW map, just some objectives to get enemies together, some interesting terrain to fight on and a few guards and lords for flavor.
All the rest of this they’ve added is just awful.
As much as you guys want to lol, can you tell me a reliable method of how an outnumbered server can defend against a blob in uneven matchups without using siege? It might be OP, but in that case, the opponent also has few counters to it which they can take advantage of.
Niloy, the issue is, the change helps attackers much more than defenders. Previously your few valiant defenders could build and use siege safely behind a wall. The attackers only had limited ability to hit what they couldn’t see.
Now, an attacker with an AC near a wall can see and hit everything on or behind the wall in a huge area. So outnumbered defenders struggle to even get near walls once an offensive AC is up, let alone build siege or fight back. It makes defending with lesser numbers much more difficult.
from looking at that video I’ve seen enough blind spots to still hide siege in.
You guys seem to forget that walls always were a unsafe place to beginn with, especially to golem rushes.
You also kept complaining about golem rushes and no valid counter-play if you lack their numbers.Welp, now you build AC’s in a safe spot behind the wall and kill all omegas you want to. Learn to adapt and realize that defensive siege actually got a buff, it just requires you to learn about these new placement spots, since a lot of the old ones obviously got easier to reach in turn.
Just some examples: jerrifers now can be defended easily from the rock-formation above, being able to place the AC so far behind the cliff that no ele/counter-AC will ever hit it. Same for veloka / cliff-side / briar.
First off, Omegas don’t need to stand near the gate to damage it, so building siege behind the wall isn’t going to help you. You have to be on the wall to build siege to counter Omegas (not counting indirect long range siege).
The problem is, with one offensive AC, attackers can see and hit everything going on behind the walls including the ramps and stairs. So once the attacking AC is active, defenders struggle to even get near the wall, let alone on top of it to fight back or build siege. Of course defensive ACs have the same LoS advantages now, but typically the attackers have the people to get their AC up first.
Once the attacking AC is up, you’re not getting a defensive AC built unless you have enough to flash build it, and even if you do, the attackers will see you stacking to build it. They can literally see and hit anything near a gate. Its absurd.
It is horrible. It would be one thing if you fired the a/c with a trajectory and couldn’t see over the walls. The way it is though, you can see everything going on behind the walls and aim directly at it; it is absurd.
The new camera features are the unbelievably poorly implemented in WvW. One arrow cart for the attackers can now completely sweep defenders from even getting close to walls, let alone climbing them to fight back.
Ice Spike is already plenty good. The only things Staff Ele needs are Air #2 to be better and the Earth auto to be better and a faster projectile. I’d dump weakness from it (though weakness is great) for something more condition oriented.
The dungeon / fractal community is as toxic as any pvp community I’ve encountered, but everyone will have different experiences. Regardless, trying to generalize about a community probably isn’t going to be real productive.
Hell, I’d rather visit each PoI in the WvW maps 10x in different weeks to get a Gift than doing the Hearts in PvE
Make these changes:
1) Get the legendary Gift from either doing the PvE Map Completion or WvW Map Completion. Since according to numerous PvE people in this thread it takes “weeks” to do WvW Map Completion this should be reasonable.
2) Give a reward track for WvW to get dungeon tokens from WvW.
3) Make the Laurel vendor exchange Laurels for Pristine Fractal Relics.
With those three changes, everyone can “play the way they want to play” for most of the content. People that don’t want to WvW don’t have to go there and those of us that don’t like the PvE content can get most game rewards in WvW.
The upscaling in this game is absurd, and I have no doubt a properly built level 2 twink could have the stats listed above. Its not a warrior problem though, its a problem with all uplevels. I think my guildies decided they thought necro or guardian were the most ridiculous.
Ranger longbow auto has a .9 coefficient (max) and 1 second time; Warrior longbow auto has a .6 coefficient(x2) and a 1.19 second time according to the wiki.
What’s there to complain about with the warrior one?
I’m with ulchanar; Longbow is a great power weapon in zergs for WvW. I run Longbow/Hammer when zerging and the swap out gear and traits and run LB/S-S for roaming; 0/30/25/0/15 for traits.
Arcing Arrow and Combustive Shot are fabulous AoE abilities on very short cooldowns; Longbow’s a great weapon anytime you can reliably hit 3+ people with its AoE abilities.