shadow farts is bad stay away from it. The build you have now is the best thief build currently. The extra endurance and swiftness alone outweighs the ini gain and +1 second of stealth.
Not to mention toughness should be avoided like the plague as a zerker thief due to its increased aggro effect.
Good day!
I’ve been messing around with the Thief profession, and I like it. Alot! However, I am still relatively new (also new to the whole assassin characters in general). I’m thinking that I would like to go with a dagger/dagger main set, with a shortbow offhand. My logic is that I can get close and personal with the dagger/dagger set, and also pick off/distance myself with the shortbow or stealth skills. I’ve been reading through the wikis, various guilds and forum posts. However, I am still very confused on how to approach the build. My main concern is survivability. But I guess that what dodging, stealth and add healing bonuses to armor are for? What would be the staple build for this kind of approach that I could read up on? There are so many it seems (very daunting lol).
Edit: I’m more concerned with PvE, than I am PvP or WvW.
Good, you didnt get sucked into thinking a condition or venom build is viable. Thats great man.
Run a 25-30-0-15-0 build for max zerk with a little survive based on active mitigation. Spam backstab when you can and switch to heart seeker at 25%. Use sb on anyfights with more than 1 mob, cluster bomb is you bread and butter spam it like crazy and throw in poison fields for good measure. Always wait a wile before attacking a boss so you dont over aggro and die. When kitten hits the fan in meele range and you out of healing dont obe afraid to switch to shortbow and take it easy untill you got a heal on cd and some hp.
Why not just have venoms as f2 f3 and f4 with separate obviously more powerful ones in utilities and traits. Steal has got to be the most boring simple class specific mechanic in the game. Adding venom’s as a class mechanic could spice things up.
We never needed more mobility tho… We needed pistol/venom buffs. So what did they do? They nerfed shortbow and gave us a new venom that is just a little less useless than before that no one will ever use competitively.
The biggest buff i think we got if the patch notes are real is the steal cd reduction, I always felt like it was a little long considering how long our TTK is, having steal off cd is crucial for opening as a melee thief, and at a 40+ sec cd there is a ton of times I wish it was at 30 seconds. I mean they nerfed the crap out of mug why not at least give us this.
For some reason developers never want to give out too many specifics when it comes to the mechanics of their game. The only time I was ever able to get specifics about the mechanics of this game was when I met the developers face-to-face at PAX East 2011.
The best information you can get is that from datamining.
which is dumb because its obvious they balance the game around TPvP. For a game that wants to be esports, it needs concise descriptions of skill cooldowns and how other skills interact and effect each other so people can make builds without having to do guesswork or redundant most of the time kitten attempts at “testing” something.
Theres so many traits that literally say “A chance to do damage”
-How much damage?
-What percent chance?
-What cooldown
-Is there skills which this wont proc off of?
etc…
They are real, instead of properly beta testing these and getting real feedback anet leaks its own patch notes then watches the forums to see user reaction. Expect very similar patch notes with maybe a few tweaks here and there, based of crying on the forums.
I’ve ran about 300+ fractals, 50 or so dragon kills, and about the same amount of dungeon runs and the best item I have ever gotten was an exotic that sold for 4gold. You aren’t exactly alone lol. As long as legendaries share the same stats as exotics I could care less. I have a feeling alot of people just bought them with real money, the amount of grind to get them is astronomical, someone in my old guild did the math once and came up if he spent the same amount of time working at a minimum wage job flipping burgers for the same amount of time he spent farming his legendary he would have 7k dollars lol.
Venoms are bad bad bad….bad. You realize that a zerker thief’s dagger 1 can crit for over 3k and that has a .25 second coodown? 320 damage for everyone in the party is like 1/2 that and is on a 45 second cooldown (and guess what if you aren’t using venom share is 10000x as bad). Not to mention to lose all your good utility like projectile reflection and SR resses, and its even worse from a PvP perspective (have fun with no stun breakers / extra invis) not to mention anyone with a brain has a way to remove conditions or send them to you, or turn them into boons.
1. You don’t necessarily need to run 4 venoms. If you need an utility, you can bring it over the Venom which triggers the least.
2. Those are 320 damage (scaling with Power, which is going to be 400+) * the amount of times you trigger the venom * the amount of allies affected. Spider Venom triggers 6 times per cast. 2 allies affected (worse situation) are 400*6*2 = 4800 damage. Same amount is healed.
3. Cooldown is 36 second in the build I’ve linked. At least, check it out before criticize the build so aggressively.
You are totally right, I thought exactly the same when I read it
lets state what you miss with venoms:
+10% dmg ini > 6
+ 5% with dagger
+ 7% Crit chance
+ 300 precision -> 14% crit chance
+ 30% crit dmg
+ 20% crit dmg < 50% hp -> average of 10%
======
- 21% Crit Chance
- 55% dmg
Any suggestions?
Yes: dont use venoms
Crit damage isn’t overall damage.
You forgot also to consider what you gain when using venom sharing build. I have to go now, but I think you’re smart enough to do the math by yourself.
I did the math and damage output due to precision + Crit damage in a full zerker build (based off my thief’s stats) accounts for about 35-40% of overall damage. i dont have condition gear nor do I know the best rotation for it so I cant do the math (nor do I really want to spend the time) for how much dps you lose going from a full zerker d/d thief using a rotation like…. Steal >Heart seeker(25%) >CnD+Backstab >Dagger auto attack.
so the best case scenario is 561 × 5 which is 2800 damage total (every 45 seconds). WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPIE thats literally less than a dagger auto attack crit that has a 1/4 second cd. Were do I sign up for this awesome ability?
Well, the math I used based it on right around 1600-1700 condition damage (for 125 damage per bleed, upon which the damage is based on, 75% or 150%), so the actual torment damage can be more or less, depending on how much condition damage you stack.
You also went by the base duration, 5 seconds. If you stack enough condition duration, you can get more damage via extended duration. My P/D build runs 75% condition damage and 100% poison duration. I’m not sure which torment would use. It’s delivered by a venom, so it could go either way.
The damage, if your condition damage is ~125 per bleed, is essentially the same damage as burning if they move. What kind of sucks, if true, is necros got burning AND this for conditions.
It might be worthwhile to start using Melandru runes and Lemongrass soup if there’s an explosion of condition users after this patch.
mesmers are going to have a ball with their condition transfer. Or guardian/ele and their condition to boon conversion…or necro and their heal that removes conditions ORRRRRRRR….
Ever wondered why your favourite skill/trait class got nerfed/buffed, moved around?
Well, its influenced by SOTG (State of the game) meetings between 2 devs and 4 players.
However, having watched several of them, it has several flaws that should be addressed…
1) Not all 8 classes are represented. Some classes in particular like the Ranger, Necro for example never have a voice because no one plays that class…so anything the devs say, the players say nothing on because lets face it they don’t main them classes so are not interested…
I think the format should be changed so its 2 devs + 8 players, with 1 player having as there main each class, so all 8 are represented…this would help balance more and avoid a particular class getting unfairly nerfed…
2) All the players are top tpvp players, so all the changes just revolve around tPvP play, with little to no thought about the effect in PvE & WvW which the VAST MAJORITY of the GW2 player base play…
More thought needs to be paid to the effects of those changes in PvE and WvW.
3) Top end tPvP is a million miles away from the way 99% of GW2 players play the game, should those players really have so much input into skills/traits? Especially, as the 99% via gem store purchases probably pay all the bills atm…
I think this very much deserves to discussed…
There is no “top end PvE players”. PvE is beyond easy in this game. The only difference between someone running FoTM 10 and FoTM 50 is agony resist (literally the only difference is gear). PvE just needs to be balanced separately, but that requires work.
Boss fights seem to fall into 2 categories with very few exceptions (Lupi/Flame Shaman/Dredge last boss come to mind, and tbh these are my favorite fights). The first category being bosses who sorta kinda maybe had a mechanic but are so easy all you have to do roll your face on the keyboard, maybe dodge a huge telegraph and when you below half hp hit 6 sometimes. The 2nd category is bosses that probably would be hard but the community as a whole ALWAYS finds an exploit for (there’s no way anet doesn’t know these exists). The latest example for me was CoE. Every kitten time we fought the alpha we just throw him in some weird corner/angle to completely take any kind of mechanic out of play besides dodging his aoe. Same deal in fractals there’s colossus stacking etc…
Half the dungeons also seem to have some kind of terrain exploit to skip bosses or trash. And the worst part about this is that the gw2 community as a whole seems to except all this. You will be kicked out of a group if you cant skip trash or exploit properly (I’ve never been kicked for this before but I’ve seen it plenty and its usually stated in advertising for LFG)
How about beefing up Trash loot tables, adding a “Full Clear” bonus, actually caring enough to fix exploits so people might actually learn fight mechanics, and ofcourse tweaking the fights that seem to have no mechanic (CoF seems to the be the worst offender of this and ofcourse most of the HoW bosses). Maybe have some kind of weekly rotating bonus for certain dungeons (like 20% more gold/MF) I don’t know the last time I ever seen anyone looking to CM.
I get a new way to grief other players with my thief? Cool…
Hoping to improve on my current records…
1) Finding a zerg, picking out 1 player on the fringes usually, killing him, then cause I know where he will spawn usually and he/she will want to rejoin zerg asap for loot, you can intercept them on the way and kill them again…
Its evil, but fun and Anet want you to do it…my current record is 7, ie same player killed 7 times in a row by my thief.
2) JP’s in WvW, same trick really but even easier because they are often alone, 2-3 players and next to a big drop…my current record same poor sap killed 14 times in a row, trying to do JP, I did feel sorry for them but still tried for 15…heh a record is a record…
3) Tap a gate of a keep with a thief, stop entire enemy team using WP, so easy, for 3 minutes too…very funny…all those extra long journeys because of my thief…
4) Find enemy zerg, follow enemy zerg, a experienced wvw player like me can easily predict what the zergs intentions are…when you know they are going to assault a keep/sm, deploy supply traps…rinse and repeat till bored…
Whoever the troll is at Anet who keeps feeding my thief I salute you good sir/madam, well done!
WvWvW is hardly real PvP, It’s just Player VS Objective and 1/2 the people there are sub 80’s with huge gear deficits. If you read my above post it’s also obvious that any thief using torment is dumb why would you waste the ultilty slot for that much damage (in a full condition spec) when pretty much and invis/stun break utility would do so much more for you.
Did you guys (DanH and Zepidel) at least read the OP?
The base concept behind the build isn’t Venom Sharing, but just using venom for the thief. It can be also shared with 30 points in Shadow Arts.
I’ve already pointed out that the heal is 320 HP at least scaling with Healing Power.
The damage, on the other hand, is 317 at least scaling with Power. And those healing and extra damage activates each time you trigger any venom.
Venoms are actually quite useful also when not completely traited. Basilisk Venom and Devourer Venom are always really useful, while Spider Venom is great for poison stacking AND for the fact it triggers 6 times when traited.
I’m trying this build with D/P, which it seems to works quite good.
30/0/30/0/10 looks failry effective (without venom sharing but with Shadow Renjuvenation), expecially when you consider that D/P thief is forced to stack low duration stealth with triggers multiple times the might stacks.
Also, Devourer Venom, Basilisk Venom and Ice Drake Venom seems to work extremely fine with Shadow Shot, overshadowing the lack of any immobilization/snares of the D/P set.
Venoms are bad bad bad….bad. You realize that a zerker thief’s dagger 1 can crit for over 3k and that has a .25 second coodown? 320 damage for everyone in the party is like 1/2 that and is on a 45 second cooldown (and guess what if you aren’t using venom share is 10000x as bad). Not to mention to lose all your good utility like projectile reflection and SR resses, and its even worse from a PvP perspective (have fun with no stun breakers / extra invis) not to mention anyone with a brain has a way to remove conditions or send them to you, or turn them into boons.
They are balancing it for esports. Pve takes a backseat.
Yep it’s why the condition builds are still weaksauce to this day compared to zerker and why we’re seeing all zerker builds in dungeons. Until they actually buff condition builds we’re going to see more of this honestly.
Condition builds would be fine if they removed the 25 bleed cap, literally that’s all they would have to do.
did weakness ever even work on ALL boss abilities? This obviously wont effect people getting stomped in fractals (Agony) or on the very few non fractal bosses (lupi) that are hard. The only thing I can think of is major trash pulls like in dredge or CoE.
I mean alot of condtions like blind/stun etc dont work on them.
Thieves also are getting it on a venom. No good thief ever uses venoms, and btw ppl on the thief forums came up with ~2500-3000 damage over 5 seconds as a best case scenario damage outcome (every 45 seconds). My dagger auto attack crits for up to 3.2k and has a .25 second cooldown. Guess which build im going to use?
even if it was 10923094820394820398 range your team would be like ’Gee umm thanks Mr. Thief for that 5 seconds of vuln and extra auto attack worth of damage. And heck im even getting healed for a cool 200 hp, im already full hp tho!"
so the best case scenario is 561 × 5 which is 2800 damage total (every 45 seconds). WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPIE thats literally less than a dagger auto attack crit that has a 1/4 second cd. Were do I sign up for this awesome ability?
Why would you make another thread on this? You could have just given your opinion in the other thread.
why not? anet leaked the patch notes so they could make sure they didn’t do anything kittened. Myabe if we cry enough about clusterbomb nerf it wont make it to live.
Seems pointless to add a new condition, and only give one way of applying it as a thief.
Also taking away Thieves’ only 1200 range attack would be a low blow by Arenanet if they didn’t give us a new weapon that had all 1200 range attacks.
its our only 1200 range attack and it has a 3 second travel time at that range, I can literally fire it and run past the spot were it should land before it explodes. The only thing that would make it worth it is if they sped up the travel time by 2×.
V
Lokheit
>Precision is a garbage atribute to get Direct Damage, really, absolutely terrible on its own
you realize how dumb that sounds?
Dumb? Ok this is something I’ve said before and it’s real:
You know that if you do the maths to distribute 1000 atribute points between power and precission and derivate to get the maximum damage scenario, the result is that in adition to giving all the 1000 points to Power, you should substract Precission from your initial 916 (something that you can’t really do, of course, but it’s the MAX scenario) and give them to Power, resulting in a very small percentage of anti-crits (strikes that heal your targer) to get the MAX possible damage on the distribution?
That’s how garbage Precission is to get damage on its own, to the point that substracting from it so some of your hits heal your target still gives you more damage than investing on it and not in Power. If you have to chose between one of them (Rabid versus Carrion), Power curbstomps it.
Precission is only useful when you already have as much power as you can get, and also tons of Critical Damage (meaning wasting 3 atribute lines).
Even when you have the maximum Critical Damage you can get, Power is still muuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better than Precission to get direct damage.
Of course it increases your damage and if you’re in rush mode and won’t receive too much damage you can do it to get peak damage and that’s what most people do to rush things, but Precission by itself is PURE GARBAGE compared with Power. Mathematically it isn’t worth it without already investing in 2 other atributes or having a huge ton of on crit effects (and even then you should get more pwoer to compensate the investment).
So no, I don’t realize how dumb sounds what I said. To be fair with your comment not everyone knows this as not everyone has stopped to do the maths and when they see their critical percentage rising they think it’s cool. And as I said it doesn’t mean that once combined with Power it isn’t viable, you see Berserkers everywhere, but on its own if you have to take one, Power or Precission ALWAYS go for Power.
you realize there is no Power-Power-Power gear right? Ofcourse power is great but after power you have a choice between precision/crit dmg/ and condi damage for offensive stats. Guess which 2 are better?
and again I’m not bored enough yet to actually do the math on venom share but there’s no in hell its even close to 25-30-x-x-x.
25 in the 1st tree gives a permanent 10% damage increase and 30 in the 2nd gives 20% after 50% hp (again 10% more damage). Not to mention the increased dps from the passive Power and crit/dmg + the talents like +5% dagger damage (250 power is around 13-15% increased damage across the board alone). And of course that tree has TOUGHNESS which is something you want nothing to do with since it effects agrro, something you will have unless there’s a full zerker 100 blade spammer in the group. If you do want to do the math please do or at least get it started and we can all finish it together.
I guess I could start on it later just post the build you use for venom share and ill work off that vs a 25-30-0-15-0 build that I use (yes I realize that 25-30-0-0-15 is more "zerker but all you gain is 3 initial inititiave and 2.8% more crit for your party (fury every 40 seconds or so for 10 seconds when you steal) or like what +8 more power for your party from might it adds?
Venom builds suck because the amount of damage you, yourself lose is not even close to what you would add to the parties over damage. If only this game had damage meters…
The PvE meta is all about doing content as fast as possible, since no one ever really dies or needs support. Really go ahead right now and ask yourself whens the last time you thought “We might not be able to finish this dungeon due to our group composition / specs”, you can beat a lvl 50 fractal with 5 bunker guardians or 5 zerker thiefs…
As long as there is no challenging content or a dps meter it wont matter if you spec 0-0-0-0-0. You CAN do venom share but we all know its not as optimal as a pure power damage build.
Lokheit
>Precision is a garbage atribute to get Direct Damage, really, absolutely terrible on its own
ya it’s nice to see anet giving thieves love, even tho there wasn’t mention of classes that needed it much more (ranger / engineer). I’m sure there is going to be 100000 threads on the forum day 1 about scrubs not being to adapt to a scary new game mechanic like “dont move”. If it’s anything like touch of palsy from warhammer online there will definitely be crying.
Ya lets just ignore that fact that the p/x skill sets are garbage and focus on something that you can alleviate yourself. 1st off you can always slot something like shadow step, or you know use black-powder or smoke wall on top of them. P/P might seem cool but its by far the worst weapon kit, it wants to be both condition and power spec but fails in both.
>And intent to do something is not the same thing as the promise of doing it.
I stoped reading right there
That doesn’t make it untrue. If I intend to take the kids to the movies, and I get called into work, then I can’t take them to the movies. It doesn’t mean I told them I would take them to the movies in bad faith.
A manifesto is a statement of intent. Of goals. This is the vision for the game. That’s it. That’s ALL it is. It’s not a guarantee, it’s not a promise, it’s not even a statement of this is what we’re going to do. It’s a statement of this is what we’re HOPING to do. And eventually they may do that.
But to take individual lines from a full document, try to pass them off as what people are saying, ignoring the rest of the words around them, and then claiming it’s a guarantee of what to come isn’t just naive.
It’s irresponsible.
Unless you’re claiming that manifesto was so good that at that point you stopped looking into the game, didn’t think about it again until it came out and ignored every other thing that Anet said about the game, because you’re too brainwashed by “advertising” to actually think about what is being said.
Well you got called into work, now tell me whats anets excuse for not adding what was in the manifesto? Im sure they got called into work lol so you cant use that one again.
IDK, but probably a bunch of running around and dancing and stupid shyt just like the last patch, nothing ever challenging is ever added from Anet, they don’t want to upset the little kids they have playing the game that buy the stupid shyt that they add to the gem store…
So you’ve done all the dungeons solo then, have ya? Guess maybe you should move on to another game…?
I try not to run the regular dungeons as they upset me being as they can be done in so little time and so easily, and seeing as how I can solo most fractals up to lvl 20 it tends to get boring asking repeatedly for them to add more and to raise the cap…
And I am almost done making 2 legendaries, if I want to move on I will, waiting for ESO to be released, which cant come fast enough, and the new Everquest would be great to, hell I’d even play that new one NcSoft has coming out even tho I know NcSoft is keeping this game from progressing the way a lot want it to, but then again, NcSoft answers to no one but NcSoft…
You sound like a complete tool, secondly ESO will be horrible have you even seen the alpha footage? The animations are terrible and the graphic are even worse and it will be casualized to hell and back worse than GW2 thanks to “we want the skyrim audience”
there’s 5 trait lines with 4 options each, and 6 gear sets to mix and match into 3 basic specs (zerker/condi/bunker), along with 12 or so utility skills, 3 heals, and 3 or so ultimate skills. So what your trying to say is you find some secret in all that, that someone hasn’t found in the past year or so and plastered all over here? Give me a break.
The funniest part is you think WvWvW is meaningful PvP.
Bunker? And you talk about being meaningful?XD
However, building is also about finding the perfect sweet spot that helps maximizing your damage and resistance.
You know, that little part about letting you deal good damage without being wiped out of existence with one backstab.
Maybe I just came into the warrior forum to be a jerk, and laugh. what now? Anyways real men go full zerker and use active mitigation to survive.
>Why can’t they over lay the kits? (or for that matter under lay, like my Char backpack. Who’s tail I can see under the kit and is something that makes me laugh.)
that requires coding beyond the capabilities of the monkies they hired at anet. Just look at how many skills are still broken, its so bad they have to use vague tooltips to cover up the fact. I dont think letting engineers have wings should be a priority
my wife dumps 3000 on handbags and crap like that all the time.
spending it on a video game is no different.
People spend 3k on golf clubs, I spend lots more than that on holidays that are gone forever.
People pay what they want for entertainment.
What’s the problem?
Golf clubs can last you 5-10 years, are made out of high quality steel / alloy / carbon fiber / graphite. The ones that cost that much are usually custom fitted / weighted / and even lofted according to your swing.
Those skins will last him a couple months until he gets bored, and are made out of pixels, 1 size fits all. But what do I know I’m just proletariat scum who wouldn’t dream of spending 3 grand on a video game
there’s 5 trait lines with 4 options each, and 6 gear sets to mix and match into 3 basic specs (zerker/condi/bunker), along with 12 or so utility skills, 3 heals, and 3 or so ultimate skills. So what your trying to say is you find some secret in all that, that someone hasn’t found in the past year or so and plastered all over here? Give me a break.
The funniest part is you think WvWvW is meaningful PvP.
So I ran into a thief a couple of times, and with my ( not so good geared guardian of lvl 80 with 15k hp) I constantly got kitten d by a thief. So I Switched to my warrior since he had a toughness + Vitality build and went back to the puzzle to look for the thief, didnt took long before I found him kitten another warrior.
stats of my warrior:
2765 Armor
28.3k HP
I found myself getting 3 hitted by the thief.
In the end the warrior from the other BL teamed up with me to kill him, but he constantly ran away to regain health and from the shadows dealing like 15k damage or so?
Really need a hotfix for thiefs damage. it’s ridiculous and no fun at all…
Are you using a two handed sword on your warrior? If you are just delete this thread its embarrassing. Warriors have been kitten in pvp since forever its not a thief problem its the class you are playing sucks kitten and it needs to be reworked (notice I didn’t say buffed). Also l2 use aegis properly, ruining a thiefs opener (basilisk venom) can really screw him over, remember a smart thief always knows that a guardian has aegis up and will probe it off, so reapply it when you think hes going to open again.
Dont listen to the noobs run full zerker. Try to aim for about 15k hp this can be achieved without any solider gear by going 25-30-0-15-0. Always run D/D + SB this gives you 2 evade skills that are usable no matter what kit you are in. Always use the evade heal its amazing… 15 sec cd + dodge + high healing. If you do get that +15 in acrobatics you get endurance back after dodging and swiftness which makes things alot easier.
Manage dodges… don’t dodge the attack that hits for 100 dmg… save it for the attack that hits for 10k. Even more important imo is positioning. Dont stand infront of a boss and wonder why you die. If your low on hp and have no healing left switch to shortbow for 15 seconds then move back in… Cluster bomb hits like a truck and you can probably out dps most scrubs with SB alone. Use a blood sigil on your dagger… its 450 dmg and heal every 4 seconds or so (2 sec int cd on crit etc…) and use heal on crit food… I have no clue if the sigil and food stack, but at least the % will
I can’t understand how you forgot Shadow Refuge in the opening post, that’s simply our best PvE skill (gives you second chances for anything, res multiple players, skips hard content in dungeons, gets ALL commune skill points without caring about the champions guarding them, and many more uses…).
Also in a Sharer build Spider Venom does much more than that: The leech is shared between players, and while there is no visible white number, it does extra damage (even when it doesn’t heal because you’re at max HP it still does extra damage). If you share it right before an assault it’s pretty easy to share with everyone in the party and in adition to the poison (+weakness from lotus poison) it deals around 13-15K armor ignoring direct damage (leeched damage is stable, 5 leechs for you and 5 other party members), 13-15k damage (and distributed heal) from pressing a single skill is great. Even if you already have started the fight, if you’ve learned how to move between lines (I recommend a P/D and Shortbow for sharer role as they allow you to move between lines without losing efficency) you can share it with at least 2 others plus you (and if you summoned them, your Thieves Guild too). Shared Devourer Venom is also great in an AoE ranged party as it spreads Inmob over an horde of mobs and gives your group plenty of time to nuke them (there are many situations in dungeons where this is very useful).
The other 2 venoms I agree need a rework or at least much lesser recharge times (Spider Venom with lotus poison does the same than Skale and then more).
Those (Shadow Refuge, Spider Venom and Devourer Venom plus Thieves Guild as Elite) are the ones that I use, but we got plenty of useful utilities for PvE. In fact some of the ones you mentioned are considered more PvP than PvE skills compared with many others in our list.
Shadow refuge is great ya especially in the dredge fract / ressing noobs, IN the OP I was thinking more along the lines of straight damage, my bad. However there no convincing me that venom share is not garbage. I see so many people trying to turn what is imo a cool skill/talent no doubt, into something its not. You try and look for everything and anything to make it seem worth it to the point of tricking yourself into some weird spec thats worse than any cookie cutter d/d + sb spec. If venoms were a on crit or % chance to proc on dmg then maybe it would be worth it. But for venom share to be as useful as possible you need to waste all your ultilty slots, go condition spec, and lose alot of other stuff, not to mention getting everyone in range of it is almost impossible during combakittens NEVER worth it.
I agree. ascended amulets are just so kitten hard to get. I mean come on Anet, 50 kills? 1 champion kill? 5 events? PLAY THE GAME? kitten that, that’s GRINDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT IS, if there was no laurels do you really think you would log on and say hmmmmm I really feel like chopping down 30 trees real fast then vendoring all the mats because they are worthless. OR hmmmm i feel like buying a bunch of cheap mats off the auction house and making 10 of a useless item. Or hmmmmmmm I feel like going to say hi to my favorite vendor!
I’ll add ya