Guild Wars 2

They do say the devil is charming.

I wasn’t implying anything, Ally. I think you subconsciously wrote exactly what you were feeling. You should listen to your subconscious. It’s given you the answer you’re looking for.

Ally.4382:

Is support in your eyes good? Yes.
Is support in my eyes good? I think something more could be done.

Those who thought more could be done, I came to hear what they thought.

LOL. Let that sink in for a moment……

Deedrick.4372:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Deedrick.4372:

Seriously a third page of this nonsense? When you quit because all the rude folk out there can I have your stuff?

Hey!!! I asked first!

Sorry can we split it, I couldn’t actually read very far past the halfway point on the first page.

That sounds fair. You’ve suffered enough.

Ally.4382:

I have tried to use the examples I have given in the thread

O_O

Uh. I must have blinked as they went past. Can you repeat them?

Deedrick.4372:

Seriously a third page of this nonsense? When you quit because all the rude folk out there can I have your stuff?

Hey!!! I asked first!

Ally.4382:

Coulter.2315:

If one person calls you a horse – ignore them, if two people call you a horse – tell them to sod off, if three people call you a horse – maybe its time to look for a saddle (or something like that).

I think you might be a little over sensitive or perhaps you’re antagonising people.

Again you have the power to stop them at the very first message you don’t like, block.

Also “did what they did to me” is a little melodramatic, you read something unpleasant on the internet, don’t blow it out of proportion.

There we go with the you’re sensitive again, maybe I AM, maybe I’m NOT? How does that make any of this acceptable? It doesn’t. It shouldn’t.

Make WHAT acceptable? What are we talking about? Give one clear example of a chat conversation where someone was rude to you or make a death threat and we can look at it and say whether it’s acceptable or not.

And, no, you don’t need screenshots. Surely you read the conversations? Just recite the last one. I’ll even give you some (hypothetical) example:

Fred (not his real name): I say, old bean!
George (not his real name): Huh? Me?
Fred: Indeed. You stuffed up my pvp winning streak, you scruffy nerf-herder!
George: Sorry.
Fred: That won’t do, old chap. Tonight I shall dine on your liver.
George: What time shall I expect you?

There you go. An example of rudeness… or is it?

Ally.4382:

Seera.5916:

So you literally get thousands of death threats?

If so, there is likely something you’re doing that’s causing it, be it intentional or not.

If not, please for the sake of the thread, STOP using it as if it is something you literally get thousands of. Because it IS hurting your argument.

No, I never said that, never did, the ones that I have received I did not ask for, nor did I provoke.

So how many death threats have you had? Over what period? And can you give one example of what constitutes a “serious” death threat? Just state some clear numbers and this whole confusing side-argument can be wrapped up.

Ally.4382:

The tools will be used. I will contact them in due course with a ticket I am sure.
If they truly disagree with what I have outlined as unacceptable. Then yes, don’t worry, I will leave the game, as clearly I’m in the wrong place. Playing the wrong game.
Yes. Case closed. On that much at least.

You’re being melodramatic. Anet will not be implementing your ‘suggestion’ because there’s no need for it. That’s not a personal attack against you. Nobody is forcing you to go. Only you can decide whether the game is right for you and you’re welcome to stay or go as you please. But if you do decide to go….. can I have your stuff? ;D

So, in-game reporting tools are satisfactory. Case closed, right?

Your wish is granted. Switch on that ‘first person’ option in the camera options and zoom in until you’re in first person mode. Enjoy.

Ally.4382:

Seera.5916:

If you give us more information on the rudeness you’re seeing most of the time, then maybe we can talk about what can be done. But until you do, we’re not going to discuss what most of us feel happens only rarely, beyond going: that’s not what I see.

It’s just a case of “rude person” is rude.
I report. Nothing happens.
Later Date: “rude person” is rude again.
Report again. Nothing happens.
Rinse and repeat endlessly

So either:
A. They need said “rude person’s” money income over temp muting/banning them.
B. They disagree with what has been said/done is rude.
C. They are so inundated with support tickets/reports they simply can’t do anything quick enough.

We know it’s Not B. because I think we all can agree death threats are serious…
And if it’s C. then that is why I suggested alternative support help from player helpers. :p

Actually, I was going to say it’s most likely B. They analysed the chat and concluded it wasn’t serious enough to warrant punishment.

Death threats can be serious, depending on context. It may be a spontaneous exclamation of frustration with no intent behind it, or there may be indicators (such as knowing your personal details) that make it more serious. It’s hard to say without an example – which you refuse to provide.

But apart from that, you continue to muddy the water. In your post above, you keep referring to a person being “rude” which is not how I would describe a death threat. You only slip in the death threat at the end completely out of the blue to exclude the most likely option (B). This is intellectual dishonesty.

Ally, it may be prudent to not continue this thread. It’s not going to bring you the satisfaction you seek and every one of your posts is actually undermining your own point.

I understand where you’re coming from, being in something similar myself, but the real point here is that there will always be things in life that are unavailable to us, given the choices we make. Without sounding all Buddhist about it, you may have to let go of your desire for a legendary. Or you can continue to feel torn about it, or you can buy one from somebody, or wait for a time when you have more time, or get somebody else to collect the bits and pieces for you, or…

Well, there are options, some more acceptable than others, none probably completely satisfying. Sometimes it comes down to picking the least unfavourable one. And changing later.

EDIT: Then again, I may have misunderstood the issue OP. You’re talking about legendary armour. I misread that as weapons. I don’t know much about the armour. The process for getting it may be unrealistic. I don’t know. In any case, I hope you find the answer you seek.

SqualZell.7813:

1000 hours over 3 months and 1000 hours over 3 years. Don’t you think both would have access to the 1000 hour prestige rewards?

What are these 1000 hour prestige rewards?

Ally.4382:

Me, personally, would deem a serious irl death threat “bannable”.

Me, personally, would deem a serious irl death threat immediately reportable to the POLICE, being a CRIMINAL matter.

Your advocation that irl death threats simply be banned is disturbing.

I’ve yet to finish this particular stage too. It’s ..not fun.

Some ideas that might help, which I’ll be trying:

- try more tanky armour, like soldiers, over berserker
- bring along some elemental powder and ogre pet whistles to summon some more minions
- use the earth elemental elite as it draws aggro away from you
- bring some portable repair kits
- bring some seed turrets
- try sceptre instead of staff
- try focus or warhorn
- are you using overloads?
- equip the mist form utility to get you out of a tight spot when your dodges run out

Ally.4382:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Ally.4382:

Okay so let’s make up some hypothetical scenario:

person A: says some rather vulgar things to you, maybe wishes you and your family all get aids/cancer and die, and ALSO proceeds to make a real irl death threat

You: …

Now I really just want to gather what you lot “suggest” happens in this scenario as an example. Do you block them and hope for the best they don’t see it through? I appreciate some will just say “block and report” but are you honestly telling me that’s all you would do? or that it’s acceptable to let them go and maybe do that to another person?

There’s not enough detail in the example. What do you consider an irl death threat?
If you consider it to be credible (i.e. they know your real name/address) you would go to the police first and foremost.

Also, why do you need a hypothetical example? You said you had hundreds of cases. Why not present just one of those, with the names altered?

I do not believe they need to be extremely detailed is why. It’s the core of it I’m trying to get noticed in this thread at the moment at least.

The point is, you have a message you want to get across. To do that, you need to present it in the most effective way for it to be understood by a wide community of people across the world. Clear, concrete language helps with that. Broad hypotheticals and extreme metaphors are antithetical to that. The core of your argument may be clear to you, but it’s getting ‘lost in translation’ so to speak.

Ally.4382:

The one and only idea I have put forward right now is simply thrown out there, non-payed player support is viable I believe. Priveledges can be revoked or dished out at anytime by ArenaNet themselves ofcourse to players they’ve decided to entrust. Any abuse of power can, much like the other game, be looked into and promptly stopped via their current system they have with tickets and the like.

It sounds like you’re saying anet can already handle the hypothetical situations you’re presenting with their current system. Je suis confused.

EDIT: fixed quote

It depends on what $50 means to you. If it’s a lot of money and you can only chose one game this year, then maybe not. In perspective, it’s $50 for years of possible entertainment. You might get 2-3 movies tickets or 5-10 hamburgers for that, depending on where you live, and those would be once-off entertainments. If you buy several games a year then you can afford to spend the money and try this. If it doesn’t work out, no big loss. You can always ask for a refund.

Ally.4382:

Okay so let’s make up some hypothetical scenario:

person A: says some rather vulgar things to you, maybe wishes you and your family all get aids/cancer and die, and ALSO proceeds to make a real irl death threat

You: …

Now I really just want to gather what you lot “suggest” happens in this scenario as an example. Do you block them and hope for the best they don’t see it through? I appreciate some will just say “block and report” but are you honestly telling me that’s all you would do? or that it’s acceptable to let them go and maybe do that to another person?

There’s not enough detail in the example. What do you consider an irl death threat?
If you consider it to be credible (i.e. they know your real name/address) you would go to the police first and foremost.

Also, why do you need a hypothetical example? You said you had hundreds of cases. Why not present just one of those, with the names altered?

Ally.4382:

I’ll just say I think you’re all proving my point very valid within the thread itself alone. I come on to throw out some ideas and to seriously talk about help and support within the game and how we could possibly make some improvements to the environment for everybody. YET all I am met with is this, my point of the post; people in general being rather “nasty” (yes) towards me with no real reason for it.

Ally, come on. People here are trying to help you, asking for examples they can actually discuss. If you find all of this thread offensive, all you’re proving is that you’re overly sensitive or even intolerant. Don’t let that be the image you leave with. Talk to the people here who are trying to help you.

And it makes DE looks like total kittenheads. They just stand there while you do all the fighting. And if you get downed they just ignore you. I think I saw Zoija point and laught at me once.

On point 3 – the suggestion of a key ring has been raised repeatedly to handle the multitude of currencies. Platinum above has a point about the different and exotic cultures using different currencies. I think if we finally got a key ring this wouldn’t seem so much of an issue.

EDIT: it seems that the forum engine changes “#3” to “1.”. :o

Perhaps if we ask anet to “do us a solid” they’ll remove the artificial slow-down….?

@flog – the trouble with that argument is, no matter what you consider important, someone else will say to you that there are more important things.

@OP – relatively easy compared to an expansion, sure, but not easy per se. Still, these are ideas worth raising (and have been raised before) but your post could use some more detail in how you envision them working. What are the options you’d like to have, for example?

Greyrebel.7492:

spoiler alart !

zaithan is still alive !he agreed to fake his death and , not attacking us , if we give him 10%

and the 5% rest goes to queen jennah , she loves to buy alooooot of shoes

She needs them to keep away from Logan and his octopus hands.

Rogue.8235:

Scalyon.7028:

Rogue.8235:

As a blind player I love audio cues. Hearing one to let me know I can read….oh wait….

While you are trying to be funny (poorly, I might add) the OP is not blind but has bad vision. I personally suffer from this (glaucoma) and having a little bell ding whenever a human player types a message in chat would be an easy thing to add.

However, I can see the need to make it configurable (both sound and frequency-wise) since some map/guild chats can get rather spammy.

I am blind. I can joke about it because I’m not bothered by my visual impairment…

I lost my vision in November 2014 and GW2 is one of the very very few games I can still play, mainly because of memorization and the sheer amount of audio cues they already have in game.

I don’t know any other blind player in GW2 but someone I did play with once told me they have a blind friend that plays WoW. If there is a blind community here I wouldn’t mind starting a guild for us.

As much as anyone can write anything on a forum whether it’s true or not, I want to believe you because I’m genuinely curious how you play. When you say blind, do you mean the legal definition or do you literally mean 100% vision loss? And if so, pardon me for being blunt, how do you play? Even with fantastic memory and audio cues, how could you possibly see the tells from enemies which have no audio cues? No rudeness intended.

DGraves.3720:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

DGraves.3720:

Instant character deletion if not revived within 300s. Permanent. Hardcore.

Pfft. I’ve seen this question several times now, each poster labelling it as ‘hardcore’ while giving themselves an out like your “..if not revived within 300s”.

That’s not hardcore. This (channelling Mick Dundee) is hardcore: no escape clause and on death, your entire account is deleted. Ha! Would you play that hardcore?

I would. Then I could stop wasting time.

Would you though? That’s an experiment we’ll probably never get an answer to.

Avarice.2791:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

^ I agree with your assessment, Avarice, and would reply with a single word but since I’m required to type at least 15 characters in this post I’ll respond with this overly-verbose statement as a form of homage, if you will, to something you wrote to me ^ ;D

Hahah I deserved that… Was that 15…? Okay good.

Oh, I didn’t mean that as a jibe. I liked your response and wanted to carry on the theme. Fortunately, I got an opportunity here.

DGraves.3720:

Instant character deletion if not revived within 300s. Permanent. Hardcore.

Pfft. I’ve seen this question several times now, each poster labelling it as ‘hardcore’ while giving themselves an out like your “..if not revived within 300s”.

That’s not hardcore. This (channelling Mick Dundee) is hardcore: no escape clause and on death, your entire account is deleted. Ha! Would you play that hardcore?

^ I agree with your assessment, Avarice, and would reply with a single word but since I’m required to type at least 15 characters in this post I’ll respond with this overly-verbose statement as a form of homage, if you will, to something you wrote to me ^ ;D

Sure, until somebody takes off the safety interlocks and the holograms become solid and start busting up your guild hall and smashing your decorations.

Ariurotl.3718:

Sartharina.3542:

You think Divinity’s Reach is fun to glide in? You should try Black Citadel.

This could be fun as well, but… I just don’t feel that I’m a hero Black Citadel deserves.

But you’re the hero it needs!!

Isn’t this better suited for the PVP forum?

Obtena.7952:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Obtena.7952:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Obtena.7952:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Obtena.7952:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think this is a good idea … you want full maps for the duration of the meta. Unless the daily is “Complete the meta event”, it will be problematic.

And what would prevent those people from participating in the meta? It’s not like doing dailies takes a lot of time.

That’s exactly my point … they will do only what they need to complete the daily, then bail out. Do you think that’s good for a map trying to complete the meta? I don’t think it is.

Sure there are already people in the map not doing meta … with dailies, you will have even more.

And you’ll also have people coming into the jungle who would not have otherwise, discovering the metas and staying to help, especially if the dailies include event completers as central does.

That makes no sense … so you’re tell me that someone has bought HoT and NOT went into the new zones to experience the content without having a daily there … but will do so if a HoT Daily is created … Um, No.

That still doesn’t address the concern I’ve raised. Unless the daily is “complete the meta” even more people will come into the maps to only complete their daily and leave, which makes it even hard to complete the meta in those maps than it is now.

Is it inconceivable that players might buy HOT for gliding, elite specs, legendary collections and whatever else and put off visiting the jungle itself because it’s scary? And that given enough incentive they may be swayed to try it? I don’t like PvP but the PvP dailies do incentivise me to try it now and then. I find DS tedious but having a daily related to it (e.g. “open X noxious pods” or “complete 1 DS”) would encourage me to enter and stay for it. Isn’t the entire point of the dailies to make people do things they wouldn’t otherwise do?

The point is, you argued that some proportion of players will act in a certain way that will be disadvantageous for the meta. I argued that some proportion of players will act in a way that is advantageous to the meta. Both of these will happen, but neither of us knows what number of people will go which way and whether the ultimate outcome is good or bad for the meta. And if we’re honestly supposed to play as we like, some of us would like HOT dailies.

No, the point is … the last thing we need is a mechanic that doesn’t encourage players in the map to not participate and finish the meta to completion. That includes dailies. It’s irrelevant if it makes more people purchase HoT or go into HoT maps if the end result is a HARDER time to complete the meta.

Let me present another way to look at it: the maps are already full of vistas, poi’s, hero points and various containers to be opened, achievements to be found, flax farming, etc. There is plenty to draw people away from the metas. You could argue that you don’t need another thing to take players away from the meta – but that’s built on the assumption that the dailies have to compete with the meta. They don’t. I gave examples above of some dailies that would actually encourage people to join the meta, just as Caledon forest event dailies encourage players to do Jungle Wurm or the daily FE encourages players to do ..the ..daily FE. HOT dailies do not have to inherently exclude content you like. We can all win.

You have completely overlooked the fact that a map only supports a certain number of players.

Not at all. If we have dailies that involve the meta (e.g. activate 2 pylons, daily octovine, etc) then players who can’t get into a map doing the meta will try to find another or even start one.

That’s possibly the worst the situation we can have … players complete random events in a meta, then bail when dailies are done.

O_O

O..kay. Well, it’s been nice. Cya round the jungle.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

How about gliders that transform the char, instead of being a glider skin.

Such as, changing you into a large hawk instead of giving you hawk wings. Or into a dragon. A butterfly. A balloon.

Or a coconut being carried by 2 African swallows. ^^

Would that change to a European swallow in colder climates?

kolompi.1287:

…..
Stop encouraging stupid kitten collections. We have too many already.

Whoah – hold on there! We can never have too many collections. They’re not compulsory. Just ignore them and leave ’em to me.

Ragion.2831:

PvE on the base game essentially is designed for kids between the ages of 7 and 12. There is almost nothing that requires any level of real thinking to solve problems.

Yes, if only there were puzzles of some kind that required thinking and perhaps jumping. Anet should really get onto that and give us ..ahem… 7-12 year olds something to do.

Behellagh.1468:

The original post asked for the reinstatement of the post 80 leveling reward once all mastery lines were unlocked. That would be spirit shards in today’s currency and that was even listed. The OP also listed Karma but considering all the karma reward nerfs in the history of the game that’ll never happen, they aren’t going to reward karma for something as trivial as leveling after 80.

Basically I never saw this as a thread to discuss options of what to offer but simply a request to restore the previous reward and it’s mechanism. My original reply’s point was that after the bifurcation of skill points into hero point and spirit shards, we no longer needed a steady supply of now hero points to unlock all of your character’s core skills and traits; and they added a means to obtain spirit shards from doing content and dailies. Therefore rendering this specific reward and it’s mechanism as obsolete.

That’s been entirely my point of posting in this thread. Not to discuss what they could offer instead or the need to offer anything at all. MMOs will always have times when those with the time and inclination can rush to completion of all content they are interested in from the core game or an expansion and then ask “What is there to do now? What good is there to keep playing?”

Because you like the game?

Fair enough. I did lose sight of the OP’s post and got a bit ranty. Thanks for explaining.

Yes, it would be great if we could select which chat modes make a sound. Whisper does and that’s good, but I often miss chats from my main guild amongst all the text in there, especially if you have map and all your various guilds.

Obtena.7952:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Obtena.7952:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Obtena.7952:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think this is a good idea … you want full maps for the duration of the meta. Unless the daily is “Complete the meta event”, it will be problematic.

And what would prevent those people from participating in the meta? It’s not like doing dailies takes a lot of time.

That’s exactly my point … they will do only what they need to complete the daily, then bail out. Do you think that’s good for a map trying to complete the meta? I don’t think it is.

Sure there are already people in the map not doing meta … with dailies, you will have even more.

And you’ll also have people coming into the jungle who would not have otherwise, discovering the metas and staying to help, especially if the dailies include event completers as central does.

That makes no sense … so you’re tell me that someone has bought HoT and NOT went into the new zones to experience the content without having a daily there … but will do so if a HoT Daily is created … Um, No.

That still doesn’t address the concern I’ve raised. Unless the daily is “complete the meta” even more people will come into the maps to only complete their daily and leave, which makes it even hard to complete the meta in those maps than it is now.

Is it inconceivable that players might buy HOT for gliding, elite specs, legendary collections and whatever else and put off visiting the jungle itself because it’s scary? And that given enough incentive they may be swayed to try it? I don’t like PvP but the PvP dailies do incentivise me to try it now and then. I find DS tedious but having a daily related to it (e.g. “open X noxious pods” or “complete 1 DS”) would encourage me to enter and stay for it. Isn’t the entire point of the dailies to make people do things they wouldn’t otherwise do?

The point is, you argued that some proportion of players will act in a certain way that will be disadvantageous for the meta. I argued that some proportion of players will act in a way that is advantageous to the meta. Both of these will happen, but neither of us knows what number of people will go which way and whether the ultimate outcome is good or bad for the meta. And if we’re honestly supposed to play as we like, some of us would like HOT dailies.

No, the point is … the last thing we need is a mechanic that doesn’t encourage players in the map to not participate and finish the meta to completion. That includes dailies. It’s irrelevant if it makes more people purchase HoT or go into HoT maps if the end result is a HARDER time to complete the meta.

Let me present another way to look at it: the maps are already full of vistas, poi’s, hero points and various containers to be opened, achievements to be found, flax farming, etc. There is plenty to draw people away from the metas. You could argue that you don’t need another thing to take players away from the meta – but that’s built on the assumption that the dailies have to compete with the meta. They don’t. I gave examples above of some dailies that would actually encourage people to join the meta, just as Caledon forest event dailies encourage players to do Jungle Wurm or the daily FE encourages players to do ..the ..daily FE. HOT dailies do not have to inherently exclude content you like. We can all win.

You have completely overlooked the fact that a map only supports a certain number of players.

Not at all. If we have dailies that involve the meta (e.g. activate 2 pylons, daily octovine, etc) then players who can’t get into a map doing the meta will try to find another or even start one.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Obviously because PvP capture and defender don’t work in Stronghold.

And really, since when doing one or a few unranked or ranked matches per day a chore? You have bigger problems with the game if that is a problem.

How do you feel about the pve and wvw dailies?

I’m not sure how those are related to the topic.

But since you asked, some of those take even longer. In fact you need to do several different tasks compared to the PvP dailies. You can play one unranked match and you automatically get two dailies, 3 if you win.

It obviously was faster if you gimmick your way through them on empty Hot Join arenas though. But is that a PvP daily?

I wondered if you found the pve/wvw dailies to be a chore or not, compared to the previous/current pvp daily? Just a bit of curiosity, not meaning to go off topic.

Or…. crazy pipe dream…. if the glider could change color depending on which attunement my ele was using.

Ashen.2907:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Obtena.7952:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think this is a good idea … you want full maps for the duration of the meta. Unless the daily is “Complete the meta event”, it will be problematic.

And what would prevent those people from participating in the meta? It’s not like doing dailies takes a lot of time.

That’s exactly my point … they will do only what they need to complete the daily, then bail out. Do you think that’s good for a map trying to complete the meta? I don’t think it is.

Sure there are already people in the map not doing meta … with dailies, you will have even more.

And you’ll also have people coming into the jungle who would not have otherwise, discovering the metas and staying to help, especially if the dailies include event completers as central does.

That makes no sense … so you’re tell me that someone has bought HoT and NOT went into the new zones to experience the content without having a daily there … but will do so if a HoT Daily is created … Um, No.

That still doesn’t address the concern I’ve raised. Unless the daily is “complete the meta” even more people will come into the maps to only complete their daily and leave, which makes it even hard to complete the meta in those maps than it is now.

Is it inconceivable that players might buy HOT for gliding, elite specs, legendary collections and whatever else and put off visiting the jungle itself because it’s scary?

I wouldnt say that it was inconceivable but its not inconceivable that somewhere out there is a GW2 player who has been kidnapped and held for ransom by people who, to keep him from whining, allow him to play his favorite MMO, but only to do dailies. So he cannot play HoT content unless dailies are added to that part of the game.

I am not sure that there is much to be gained by adding dailies to accommodate two people (your not inconceivable one and mine).

I enjoyed your response. It reminded me of good times way back when I was kidnapped and forced to… ah, but I digress. It seems your inconceivable person and mine have run off to elope or something but fortunately there’s a bunch of slightly more conceivable people on this forum who seem to be in favour of HOT dailies, so there might be something to be gained after all.

Obtena.7952:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Obtena.7952:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think this is a good idea … you want full maps for the duration of the meta. Unless the daily is “Complete the meta event”, it will be problematic.

And what would prevent those people from participating in the meta? It’s not like doing dailies takes a lot of time.

That’s exactly my point … they will do only what they need to complete the daily, then bail out. Do you think that’s good for a map trying to complete the meta? I don’t think it is.

Sure there are already people in the map not doing meta … with dailies, you will have even more.

And you’ll also have people coming into the jungle who would not have otherwise, discovering the metas and staying to help, especially if the dailies include event completers as central does.

That makes no sense … so you’re tell me that someone has bought HoT and NOT went into the new zones to experience the content without having a daily there … but will do so if a HoT Daily is created … Um, No.

That still doesn’t address the concern I’ve raised. Unless the daily is “complete the meta” even more people will come into the maps to only complete their daily and leave, which makes it even hard to complete the meta in those maps than it is now.

Is it inconceivable that players might buy HOT for gliding, elite specs, legendary collections and whatever else and put off visiting the jungle itself because it’s scary? And that given enough incentive they may be swayed to try it? I don’t like PvP but the PvP dailies do incentivise me to try it now and then. I find DS tedious but having a daily related to it (e.g. “open X noxious pods” or “complete 1 DS”) would encourage me to enter and stay for it. Isn’t the entire point of the dailies to make people do things they wouldn’t otherwise do?

The point is, you argued that some proportion of players will act in a certain way that will be disadvantageous for the meta. I argued that some proportion of players will act in a way that is advantageous to the meta. Both of these will happen, but neither of us knows what number of people will go which way and whether the ultimate outcome is good or bad for the meta. And if we’re honestly supposed to play as we like, some of us would like HOT dailies.

No, the point is … the last thing we need is a mechanic that doesn’t encourage players in the map to not participate and finish the meta to completion. That includes dailies. It’s irrelevant if it makes more people purchase HoT or go into HoT maps if the end result is a HARDER time to complete the meta.

Let me present another way to look at it: the maps are already full of vistas, poi’s, hero points and various containers to be opened, achievements to be found, flax farming, etc. There is plenty to draw people away from the metas. You could argue that you don’t need another thing to take players away from the meta – but that’s built on the assumption that the dailies have to compete with the meta. They don’t. I gave examples above of some dailies that would actually encourage people to join the meta, just as Caledon forest event dailies encourage players to do Jungle Wurm or the daily FE encourages players to do ..the ..daily FE. HOT dailies do not have to inherently exclude content you like. We can all win.

Behellagh.1468:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Behellagh.1468:

..people are complaining that leveling after 80 doesn’t give you stuff anymore. That stuff in a post Trait 3.0 world would be spirit shards.

Why is that?

Because when you eliminate the need for Skill Points with the revamp into Hero Points, all you are left with is what’s now Spirit Shards. Certainly you can’t think they would reward you Hero points? That would eliminate a major reason to go into the HoT maps to unlock your elite fully.

To be frank, I don’t care what the reward is. I presume the people in charge of choosing the reward would pick something appropriate. What I don’t understand (and I really want to) is why you think the reward HAS to be spirit shards. Why do you say it’s the only option? You seem to be very certain on this point. Is there an official statement from anet on this somewhere? Some clever people in other threads have suggested a variety of creative rewards. Why do you see spirit shards as the only option?

Behellagh.1468:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Behellagh.1468:

..masteries is ANet’s solution to not bumping the level cap like other MMOs do for expansions. So now we wait until there are new ones, certainly next expansion and just maybe LW3, who knows.

The thing is, they didn’t need to add masteries. They could have just said, “No cap increase.” and left it at that. They added masteries to provide some horizontal, rather than vertical, progression. And I like that they did. I’ve had some beef with the generic way masteries are earned but I do like many of the masteries. And I’m looking forward to more. They are a good way to get some feeling of progression without increasing the level cap.

But the problem is, when you’ve maxed them, there’s still that dead zone until more masteries come out. It’s a dead zone that didn’t exist before [edit: ty to Inculpatus cedo below for correction], and as Paulytnz said above, “Anet have always stated that they like to reward players for the things that they do in the game.”

One of the major purposes of an expansion in an MMO is to provide progression to maxed out characters. Most games simply bump the level cap while a few add a secondary leveling track. Either method still use XP as the currency for that progression. Masteries are simply an account wide version of the later rather than Incarnate Levels in City of Heroes or Hongmoon Levels in BnS which are per character.

No argument there.

Behellagh.1468:

But any system still taps out at some point or risks flooding the game between major updates with particular rewards whether item or currency.

I’m not clear on your point in this sentence and it’s likely I’ll misread what you intended but here goes: from what I’ve read, things are constantly being added/removed/changed in the game to maintain economic balance and avoid “flooding”. Drop rates are adjusted. Sinks are created. Supply and demand happens. What I’m confused about is how rewarding for xp after level cap leads to flooding, and why any such flooding would be allowed to go unchecked. Even if we make the reward spirit shards, it’s very hard to believe that they will be handed out wholesale without other checks and balances in place. If we assume the reward can be anything, like a haiku, it becomes even more unbelievable that the game could be flooded by short poetry. Each explanation just seems to raise more questions. That may be because I don’t know enough about the game, but in all fairness you are dancing around some points that I’ve been asking for clarification on several times now.

Please, just clarify this one point for my sanity. Just this one and I’ll go away happy:

Why do you think the only possible reward in this situation is spirit shards?

FrizzFreston.5290:

Obviously because PvP capture and defender don’t work in Stronghold.

And really, since when doing one or a few unranked or ranked matches per day a chore? You have bigger problems with the game if that is a problem.

How do you feel about the pve and wvw dailies?

Obtena.7952:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think this is a good idea … you want full maps for the duration of the meta. Unless the daily is “Complete the meta event”, it will be problematic.

And what would prevent those people from participating in the meta? It’s not like doing dailies takes a lot of time.

That’s exactly my point … they will do only what they need to complete the daily, then bail out. Do you think that’s good for a map trying to complete the meta? I don’t think it is.

Sure there are already people in the map not doing meta … with dailies, you will have even more.

And you’ll also have people coming into the jungle who would not have otherwise, discovering the metas and staying to help, especially if the dailies include event completers as central does.

That makes no sense … so you’re tell me that someone has bought HoT and NOT went into the new zones to experience the content without having a daily there … but will do so if a HoT Daily is created … Um, No.

That still doesn’t address the concern I’ve raised. Unless the daily is “complete the meta” even more people will come into the maps to only complete their daily and leave, which makes it even hard to complete the meta in those maps than it is now.

Is it inconceivable that players might buy HOT for gliding, elite specs, legendary collections and whatever else and put off visiting the jungle itself because it’s scary? And that given enough incentive they may be swayed to try it? I don’t like PvP but the PvP dailies do incentivise me to try it now and then. I find DS tedious but having a daily related to it (e.g. “open X noxious pods” or “complete 1 DS”) would encourage me to enter and stay for it. Isn’t the entire point of the dailies to make people do things they wouldn’t otherwise do?

The point is, you argued that some proportion of players will act in a certain way that will be disadvantageous for the meta. I argued that some proportion of players will act in a way that is advantageous to the meta. Both of these will happen, but neither of us knows what number of people will go which way and whether the ultimate outcome is good or bad for the meta. And if we’re honestly supposed to play as we like, some of us would like HOT dailies.

Behellagh.1468:

..people are complaining that leveling after 80 doesn’t give you stuff anymore. That stuff in a post Trait 3.0 world would be spirit shards.

Why is that?

Behellagh.1468:

..masteries is ANet’s solution to not bumping the level cap like other MMOs do for expansions. So now we wait until there are new ones, certainly next expansion and just maybe LW3, who knows.

The thing is, they didn’t need to add masteries. They could have just said, “No cap increase.” and left it at that. They added masteries to provide some horizontal, rather than vertical, progression. And I like that they did. I’ve had some beef with the generic way masteries are earned but I do like many of the masteries. And I’m looking forward to more. They are a good way to get some feeling of progression without increasing the level cap.

But the problem is, when you’ve maxed them, there’s still that dead zone until more masteries come out. It’s a dead zone that didn’t exist before [edit: ty to Inculpatus cedo below for correction], and as Paulytnz said above, “Anet have always stated that they like to reward players for the things that they do in the game.”

You can’t be batman.

I’m batman.

SkyShroud.2865:

condition is the “in” thing now
or do u prefer raw damage instead?

I don’t like raw damage. I prefer it well done.

This looks like it should be merged with the other thread about dying the new glider, maybe even merged with the main thread about the glider. Just a thought.