Guild Wars 2

ninja.4139:

bhagwad.4281:

It would encourage build diversity because there are hard counters to every “one trick pony” build. In a team setting your weaknesses are not so apparent. In 1v1, you can exploit them.

In current play, balanced builds are discouraged since one pure bunker and one pure DPS can cover each other’s soft spots and together present a formidable team. There’s no advantage to being balanced right now. In a 1v1, if you spec too much of one thing you will surely meet someone who will take advantage of that.

What we will have with dueling is a proliferation of balanced builds having decent offense/defense tradeoffs and a lot more emphasis on skill.

The meta game would never be stable for this very reason. And isn’t that what we want?

Let me take back that last statement then, I misinterprited you. I thought you meant build diversity for the general PvP game, not just duels. Of course I understand that there are going to be specific builds for 1 vs 1. I’m all for having a duel system in place, but that’s specifically why I think it shouldn’t be ranked. Even if you disagree with me that there would be an end all be all build, I think we can both agree that a-net isn’t going to balance the game around dueling. If it awards rank, then it’ll encourage a play to win mentality and not play for fun or practice, which means people will try to find the end all be all build and there will be a meta. We should probably also consider that if it’s ranked, that means there will need to be a definite winner and loser and people will be more inclined to find ways to cheat the system. What’s stopping someone from staying stealthed for near indefinitely? There would probably need to be a single capture point to stop people from dodging death forever, but then extreme bunker defense becomes much more appealing.

Those are good points. In GW1, there was a system where in case of a draw, the more aggressive team would be awarded the match. This would usually happen if a random arena team suddenly had 3 monks! It prevents a “pure bunker” mentality and will also take care of the indefinite stealth issue.

Yes, I agree that there will be a meta. What I’m saying is that the meta will always be in flux. Like it was in GW1. As A-net makes changes overall, the meta would change too. It’ll be a very exciting process!

ninja.4139:

bhagwad.4281:

If anything, dueling would fuel the creation of more unusual builds that no one has thought of yet.

I don’t see how it would encourage any sort of creativity that doesn’t already exist, especially since it would become much simpler without team synergy to consider. All it would do is create a 1 on 1 meta game seperate from normal play.

It would encourage build diversity because there are hard counters to every “one trick pony” build. In a team setting your weaknesses are not so apparent. In 1v1, you can exploit them.

In current play, balanced builds are discouraged since one pure bunker and one pure DPS can cover each other’s soft spots and together present a formidable team. There’s no advantage to being balanced right now. In a 1v1, if you spec too much of one thing you will surely meet someone who will take advantage of that.

What we will have with dueling is a proliferation of balanced builds having decent offense/defense tradeoffs and a lot more emphasis on skill.

The meta game would never be stable for this very reason. And isn’t that what we want?

ninja.4139:

You can still learn from tPvP team fights. And yeah, a dueling system would be neat and all, but the game wasn’t balanced with dueling in mind. If you could rank up through dueling, I gurantee two or three builds would rise to the top and dominate all others and then it would just get boring quickly. Not to mention rank doesn’t always accurately reflect skill, and with the ability to gain rank through dueling it would become even less so. How would you be able to tell if someone is an experienced dueler or if they’re an experienced tourny player? If they implemented a dueling system it should reward glory and only glory, that way it’s a just-for-fun thing and doesn’t become extremely competitive. Maybe it could have a small, seperate ranking system too that’s kind of like WvW rank, but just for bragging rights.

If there were just a few builds at the top of the dueling tree, I guarantee you that many builds will surface specifically to counter them. In a game as highly complex as GW2 I seriously doubt that there’s just one nash equilibrium – in fact I would say that it’s highly unlikely to be the case.

If anything, dueling would fuel the creation of more unusual builds that no one has thought of yet.

As for not being able to tell if someone is an experienced dueler or a tourney player…that’s like not being able to tell if a PvE guy is a dungeon runner or a MF farmer. We don’t need to be able to tell that.

I keep hearing that GW2 is a “team game” and that it’s not “meant” to be balanced around 1v1. Let me ask you this:

Have you ever met someone who kicked your butt and you wanted to fight them again and again? Then you start to catch on and adapt your tactics. Then you win a fight. Then they try something different and after 5 or 6 fights both of you are far better players than when you started. You learn new ways to do things that you weren’t forced to learn before.

Yesterday for example I met a warrior. As a phantasm mesmer I usually laugh at them but a quick skirmish with this guy told me I had to watch out. Axe+Shield/Greatsword. Destroying my phantasms and staying on top of me all the time. My hubris cost me the first time and I resolved to be more careful. The map changed and we dueled. My god what a duel! I never thought I would play like that. I managed to get him and out of respect for his skills didn’t finish. When the match ended, I saw his rank was r52. I’m still stuck at 39…

I am a better player because of that skirmish and also have a new respect for a well played warrior. Would this have been possible with others interrupting and irritating all the time? How sad if one of my teammates had come in and helped to kill him. So unfair!

And this is why we need duels. Nothing sharpens your skill and forces you to deal with your weaknesses like a duel. Teamfights allow you to get careless. And isn’t skill what this game is supposed to be all about?

I just don’t get why Anet doesn’t formalize a dueling system. We need to be able to rank up and progress through dueling alone if we want – something that I doubt custom arenas will address.

A zerg someday should just all decide to get naked. That would be a sight to see! 30+ players all zerging around in their undies

Firebaall.5127:

If Anet wants to increase the players in PvP, they have to think about how they killed it off in gw1. Especially since they are happily doing it again here.

In catering to the few organized players, they choke off new players. Why would anybody want to stick around after getting pitted against an organized set of players? Here’s a secret: They don’t.

Go down this road, and suddenly you have all the organized players cry how nobody plays anymore. No new blood…dead game.

Fix the match up process, or lose the game.

It doesn’t matter if you’re overmatched. You still owe loyalty to your teammates to see them through.

I have little sympathy with anyone who leaves. A nice cooling off period is in order for them.

zone.1073:

If they successfully bailed, then no, you did not win the fight. You did not kill them.

End of discussion.

I honestly get so disgusted sometimes when people try and run away that I just don’t bother to chase them down.

It’s just…you know…screw them.

I’m not a huge stud of a player. But I feel almost…soiled…to try and fight someone running away.

Minion of Vey.4398:

Dying as a matter of honor in tpvp is bad strategy. Ego doesnt even play into it.

I agree – we go to tPvP to win the match above all else. But in hotjoin…?

Only semi serious

kitten es me off when I’ve won a fair fight and the other person decides to bail instead of accepting their fate. It’s cheesy and robs me of rightful kills since some classes are very good at disengaging.

As a mesmer I never run away from a fair 1v1 even when I’m about to die and I have the capability to vanish. They got the better of me, I deserve to die, better luck to me next time.

Situations where I run:

1. 2v1, 3v1 etc. I never take on more than one person thinking to beat them both unless one is almost dead. Or unless it’s tPvP and thee strategy requires it. I’m not that arrogant.

2. I get caught with my skills on CD and low health. Then it’s not a fair fight and I don’t feel bad about running.

But in general, show some respect to the other person when they beat you in a fair 1v1. They deserve to get points for winning fair and square. It’s not as if dying costs you anything like broken armor. Just your ego. Which is reasonable since you did lose!

Edit: It’s especially funny when it’s an agreed upon duel and the other person attempts to escape. I mean…what’s the point? It’s not as if I’m going to finish you after you’re downed – rules of the duel and all that.

Edit 2: True, the opposing team gets five points when you die. But if a person runs are they really thinking “I must deny them those 5 points…must run!”

You can only switch teams in hotjoin if there’s an imbalance to begin with. So getting a full guild into one team is almost impossible.

In the latest April SoTG they mentioned they’re gonna nerf light fields retaliation combos. This will have a massive impact on gameplay

YA BOY THE KID.2743:

define “better”

You can consistently get more rank points in hotjoin than solo queue.

I suggest higher ranked tPvP matches give more rank points to compensate.

Just to note that if you’re not careful, a fight with a shatter mesmer can end really fast. You need to get the upper hand as soon as they get within range + avoid their initial burst. Many shatter mesmers will stealth initially so you can’t summon and it also makes it easy for them to pull off their combo.

Normally I summon the swordsman first, but with shatter mesmers I open with magic bullet. That first crucial interruption gives me the time to quickly do a summon and if the mesmer used decoy to break stun, I have blurred frenzy available to me if I suddenly get immobilized from nowhere.

It can get bad in really tight closed spaces like fighting in front of the treb because of the AoE that also kills your illusions.

Overall this matchup is all about who gets the jump first.

One other thing. The pace of this fight is so fast that tabbing to get the correct mesmer is just too slow. You have get use your mouse and target him before he stealths again. Getting your phants out quickly is top priority and if you’re tabbing it’ll be way too slow.

Dasorine.1964:

Just no, the thief is already debatably nerfing himself and his team by sitting in the middle of no where doing something that burns a utility and potentially already leaves them vulnerable.

If the GC dies to that then lucky thief else its a thief that is essentially loosing the game for the team.

If the GC didn’t want to instantly die to a burst out of no where they wouldn’t run glass cannon, its why I just jumped into sPvP on my level 20 warrior bunged zerker gear on and was sat in a corner 1 shotting people as they came past with kill shot.

Perhaps you’re saying that no experienced player should ever run a GC? But even a GC can mitigate damage with skillful play. The more skillful you are, the less raw defence you need.

But this combo allows a completely noob player to essentially steal a huge amount of HP from even the most skilled player on the planet with no chance of counterplay. He may be wasting his and his team’s time but the fact remains that he can still kill an experienced player with no cost to himself.

Dasorine.1964:

Thats just it a really experienced player isn’t going to take 17k damage from backstab and mug, so it comes down to a a completely noob thief can waste his time and rely purely on luck to maybe kill another complete noob running around without and defense.

Just like anyone else can drop a burst out of no where if they get lucky as well.

The only time this would become and issue is if a thief could run around permanently stealthed with no downsides AND if backstab actually did the ridiculous damage your stating without a lot of set up and sacrifice.

How would an experienced player mitigate damage with a shadow refuged thief waiting for someone to come by? The BS + steal is instant. I mean literally milliseconds. I was referring to something like in this screenshot.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/44947/Backstab.png

Even full GC experienced players should be able to reduce damage with skillful play. A combo like this out of nowhere removes any chance of counterplay if a completely noob thief is willing to waste his time sitting around griefing people.

Dasorine.1964:

Basically it comes down to people thinking thieves are able to realistically maintain stealth impermanently out of combat thus giving no possible way to allow people to know they are there, which is not true.

That thief shadow refuging is burning a 1 minute cooldown for 15 seconds of stealth at best with no guarantee they will meet anyone within those 15 seconds and no guarantee someone wont stroll past his little house and throw him out of it.

Any other time the thief is either burning up important cooldowns or is accepting they don’t have permanent stealth and thus engaging in fights with ways that allow people to potentially see them before hand.

Even if that thief gets lucky with the shadow refuge camping they’d only manage the 1 hit, backstab (not a full mug+cnd chain) which does very little damage by itself compared to other kill moves with the mug and cnd generally averaging more damage.

All the while all the other big single skill bursts hit far harder and can have the same situation by hiding in a corner somewhere that you won’t see them immediately or such rather than burning a utility and hoping you wander past.

I hear you. What I think you’re essentially saying is that a completely r1 noob thief player who is willing to waste his time can get a free 17k hit (BS + Steal) against even the most experienced player on the planet no matter how sharp his/her eyes are and who is constantly on the lookout.

The fight is basically over if that happens.

IMHO a person must always be able to avoid damage if they’re good and their reflexes are fast. This mechanic essentially allows thousands of damage against anyone no matter how skilled they are and no matter how quick their reaction time is.

In short, no matter how good a player is, they can never say "I"m so good that this can never happen to me".

BlackDevil.9268:

Haha that would’ve been me. I really enjoyed the fights against you! My build is 10-20-0-10-30, maxing out the shatter damage in combo with the prestige can be a really 1 shot-kill to some people.

It’s been long that I’ve been running a shatter spec, as I’m used to condition specs. So yeah, still got plenty to learn, but were sure good fights!

Maybe I’ll try running this. Was always looking for a reason to run a torch. What runes/sigils do you use?

Dasorine.1964:

Only if everyone elses attacks that have a damage coefficient of 2.4 or higher are also not allowed until people decide they are acceptable.

Not to mention it really wouldn’t change anything other than perhaps seeing more use of caltrops/choking gas from these mythical “perma-stealth” thieves that can start fights with out ever being seen.

I don’t think anyone is grudging the thief a high burst. They just don’t like it when it happens for “free” out of initial stealth with no chance to react. Limiting stealth attack skills only when in combat will solve the problem without actually impacting any thief builds.

Maybe the only builds that will be affected will be those that rely on an “out of stealth initial burst” or instagib.

Do we want to cater to those people anyway?

Teamkiller.4315:

oh so you basically mean the thief can’t open with backstab or similar skills?

Cause it gimps a lot of thieves and still doesn’t solve the problem of instagibbing. Backstab is actually the third skill in the mug-cnd-bs-hs instagib combo…

Good point. Nonetheless a regular BS out of combat can still take off 10k health (or more. I’ve seen 14k) essentially ending the fight right there if followed by a steal taking out another 7k. At least with the cnd+steal+bs combo the thief has to be visible at some point close in time so there’s a reasonable argument to be made that the person wasn’t keeping a close eye on things.

Attacking directly with a big hit out of stealth and out of combat doesn’t give you a chance to fight back. You’re essentially giving away a free 15k (BS+steal) hp before the fight even starts. You’re always on the defensive after that and all it takes will be one HS to land.

Like I said, most people don’t truly get irritated by stealth per se, but by the way large amounts of hp are given away before anything even happens.

Teamkiller.4315:

Yes, several huge ones in fact. For example, when we do small scale GvGs or run dungeons if we have a thief he usually shadow refuges us before the fight begins to get the positional advantage or run past enemies we don’t want to fight, respectively (for dungeons this would for example be the huge room in CM right before the final boss with about 30 silver mob bandits).

This solution won’t work

Also thief vs thief duels would suck.

No, when I say “stealth skills”, I don’t mean the ability to stealth, but rather the special skills that become available to a thief (the “1” ability) when he/she stealthed.

It seems to me that most people are not kitten off about stealth per se. Yeah, there are those who complain about “perma invis”, but the most frustration apparently stems from being one shotted when the player doesn’t even know the thief is there. Like that one guy who doesn’t care about winning the game or capping points, but just waits till his shadow refuge is off cooldown at Kyhlo and hits players from behind with a steal+cnd+backstab combo as they’re running past with no idea there’s a thief nearby.

To fix this problem permanently, how about letting “stealth skills” like backstab etc be available only when the thief is actually in combat? When not in combat, being in stealth just gives you the usual skill bar. I don’t think most skilled thieves would complain about this since they don’t really take cheap shots out of stealth before the player is aware of their existence.

Once the fight is enjoined, then of course all stealth skills can be used since now both parties are actually fighting with each other and countering one another.

Maybe there are drawbacks to this suggestion which I haven’t thought of yet…?

Edit: When I say “stealth skills”, I don’t mean the ability to stealth, but rather the special skills that become available to a thief (the “1” ability) when he/she stealthed.

Basically these: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth_skill

Dawdler.8521:

bhagwad.4281:

Go for the immortal mesmer build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-The-Immortal-Mesmer-Build/first

My gear isnt quite complete but I did a simple test with the “immortal mesmer build” by running solo into the center of 30ish Red Guard and I’m sorry to say, its not really immortal. That’s just false advertisement. But I survived for over 10ish seconds so I still approve :p

Wow – I personally would never even attempt to go into a group of 30 people no matter how tanky. Honestly I never willingly engage with more than 2 people at a time. And preferable not even two!

I don’t like to assume that I’m better than two people at the same time. I have won quite a bit of 2v1 now and then but I never assume that I can do it. Always assume your opponent is as skilled as you.

My best 2v1 wins have been

1. Two eles
2. Guardian and ele
3. Guardian and thief
4. Two rangers
5. Warrior and thief

But again, I’m not arrogant enough to think that I’m better than two people combined! These were probably outlier cases.

I run a phantasm build and it’s nice to meet a build that is so dangerous. I was killed quite a lot before I was able to learn how to react to it and I improved my targeting skills to boot. So whoever you are if you’re reading this…thank you.

Basically there was lots of stealth via the torch, mass invis and of course decoy. He also used blink frequently. The idea is to stealth and then suddenly shatter when your opponent has no idea where you are.

I was able to counter by stealthing more often myself and using the mouse to target the mesmer instead of the “tab” key (I use “v” instead). This saves me precious seconds when I can tell who the real mesmer is but can’t target since I have to cycle through all the illusions/clones. Plus a healthy dose of blurred frenzy to protect myself from shatters.

I didn’t ask him exactly what traits he was using, but I assume it was max shatter damage. He used a staff as the other weapon set but not often. It’s surprising how quickly the fight can end if you’re careless.

Had a good time today.

Minu.5792:

bhagwad.4281:

Slamz.5376:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce

According to everyone here, courtesy is for the weak. In my little experience of WvW it seems like everyone is a ravenous dog looking for kills and loot. Atleast most people in PvP have the kitten decency to say “Gg” afterwards and are respectful. Camping jumping puzzles… honestly.

You’re confused. A “Christmas truce” where everyone decides not to murder each other right now is fine. The movie “Warhorse” had another good example where it’s probably okay to not murder each other right now.

If your enemy is out there looting siege equipment that they are going to use later to kill you and everyone you know then maaaaaybe that’s a dumb time for a truce. (“Haha yes, let us have peace on this day! Say, can you help me carry this cannon? In the spirit of brotherly love, would you mind helping me load it? Okay, now go stand over there…”)

Except that for a lot of people, they don’t care about the siege equipment. I myself have just destroyed them since they take up precious space in my inventory.

You sir, should be killed every time you enter the jumping puzzle as you are an anathma to the WvW world.

I don’t personally kill people in there, although I think they should be killed, as I despise jumping puzzles more than normal PVE content, thus do not find myself in there, but for you, I would sit and kill you over and over until you logged off.

Lol, you’re more than welcome to try. I love it how those camping JPs seem to think they can beat those they fight without batting an eyelash.

Tip: Just because someone doesn’t want to fight doesn’t mean they can’t. Attack me at your own peril.

Slamz.5376:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce

According to everyone here, courtesy is for the weak. In my little experience of WvW it seems like everyone is a ravenous dog looking for kills and loot. Atleast most people in PvP have the kitten decency to say “Gg” afterwards and are respectful. Camping jumping puzzles… honestly.

You’re confused. A “Christmas truce” where everyone decides not to murder each other right now is fine. The movie “Warhorse” had another good example where it’s probably okay to not murder each other right now.

If your enemy is out there looting siege equipment that they are going to use later to kill you and everyone you know then maaaaaybe that’s a dumb time for a truce. (“Haha yes, let us have peace on this day! Say, can you help me carry this cannon? In the spirit of brotherly love, would you mind helping me load it? Okay, now go stand over there…”)

Except that for a lot of people, they don’t care about the siege equipment. I myself have just destroyed them since they take up precious space in my inventory.

Go for the immortal mesmer build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-The-Immortal-Mesmer-Build/first

Nope. It’s just that it’s boring and person B has to be a very altruistic kind of fellow to allow it. There’s hardly anyone like that.

I want a functionality so that those entering a custom arena have to pay a certain amount to the owner.

So for example, I create a normal 5v5 arena with regular map rotations minus capricorn. Anyone who wants to play has to pay me 5 or 10 copper per match. This way I will be able to recoup my investment into renting the arena in the first place.

It’s cheap, and I myself wouldn’t mind paying that fee to get capricorn free map rotations

Gandarel.5091:

It’s geart that PvP will bring some money to the developers, so probably PvP can be a higher priority, which is great.

The only problem is: PvP players make 2 copper a day (pvp daily reward). The only way we can make some more is selling dye from boxes.

So hardcore pvp players won’t be able to rent a server, only the pve dudes will have to money for that if they won’t make some changes.

Rare minis from chests or skins, like in GW1, would solve the problem.

Agreed. PvP players need some way to fund the expense of renting arenas.

I wonder how much I’ll be willing to pay for a custom arena?

Let’s see. I would think it worthwhile to spend say 10 silver to create a custom arena lasting for a few days.

I hope it’s not much more expensive than that.

Scrambles.2604:

bhagwad.4281:

Azure Prower.8701:

ARM.3912:

Red is dead. End of discussion.

You’re not the boss of me!

If I’m running pass you and not attacking you. I’m doing you a favour. Attack me and you’re dead.

Just because its red. Doesn’t mean you should. Only that you can. Freedom of choice.

^^This. You don’t have to fight anyone. You can. There’s a difference.

Yeah, you dont HAVE to. But if you don’t you might as well join the other server, traitor.

Lol. Your loyalty to a server is amusing. May I ask what it’s based on? Love of the countryside? More importantly, what do you lose if your server is at the bottom?

I’ll tell you what is war. If the players on the losing server at the end of the week had all their characters deleted, that my friend would be war. Real consequences to losing. True incentives. Then you can reliably call someone a traitor.

Or improve the rewards for beating a person. Say, a 20% chance of a precursor drop. That is a real reward. Now I’m r39 and am in the 90% percentile of the ladder and I can hold my own or better against just about anyone. But even I don’t like the idea of my armor breaking and having to run all the way back even with a 10% chance of me losing, because the risk/reward ratio doesn’t work out. I’m not even guaranteed a kitten badge drop for chrissakes! So what the hell do I gain from killing someone? Nothing! And on the small chance that I die I have to run all the way back and waste my time. But of course, if someone attacks me I’ll likely cream their kitten because I don’t want to die.

Also if they attack me first I get angry and will likely hunt them down even if they surrender.

So..it’s neither war, nor are there good enough motivations to beat another person. Fighting someone is purely a choice. Just don’t try and rationalize it as though it’s logical or something.

Azure Prower.8701:

ARM.3912:

Red is dead. End of discussion.

You’re not the boss of me!

If I’m running pass you and not attacking you. I’m doing you a favour. Attack me and you’re dead.

Just because its red. Doesn’t mean you should. Only that you can. Freedom of choice.

^^This. You don’t have to fight anyone. You can. There’s a difference.

Minu.5792:

I really don’t get this “be nice to your enemy if they don’t want to fight” concept. WvW is a war, in a war, you do not allow enemies to wander into a supply depot and ransack various items of heavy weaponary that can be used against you later. Since we do not have the functionality of taking prisoners, killing them is the only option.

On the surrender option, I am all for that, if, once surrendered, they have to sit in our spawn area, tied up and unable to participate in any further WvW for a defined number of hours. If you surrender, you are out of the game folks.

It’s a “war” only because Anet tells you it’s a war. There’s no objective reason to fight, no resource crunch, your character is always available for you to play and you don’t need in-game food.

So this whole “it’s a war” logic is absurd. You have the ability to fight one another. That’s it. Whether or not you want to convert that into “it’s a war” is up to you. Just be ready to provide reasons why you’re under the impression that it’s a war.

Minu.5792:

No need to feel bad, he should not be in WvW if he does not want to fight.

No exceptions.

The carebears of the world can cackle on all they want, anyone whatsoever in WvW is fair game.

Way to label anyone who feels bad about repeatedly killing someone who didn’t want to fight. Basically – be an kitten or you’re a “carebear” lol!

mursie.3681:

Sixe.5704:

No, I was not afk. I was running towards their treb, and had no chance on dodging or other stuff. Was running and he spawned on top of me. Why would I even write a post if I were afk.

because the log shows you ate 10+ attacks, each with global cooldowns, that would take longer than 7 seconds to even execute…and you did all of this..without retaliating with even ONE skill.

He ate 5 attacks. And two of those – steal + backstab happened instantly. So he basically ate just three heartseekers.

Vayra.3290:

Sure, I played WAR for well over a year at max rank with no other reward than seeing my enemies die before me in droves. I still play BF3 even though I have all unlocks and all the assignments I want are complete. So long as the pvp is fun that is enough reward in and of itself.

But did others know you were max rank and were they able to see your unlocks? Would you still play if everyone was the same rank as you and had free access to all equipment?

In other words, would you still play if you can’t show off?

Thought experiment – will you still play if this happens?

Remove all rewards from PvP. Players have full access to all armor and weapons. Remove all progression – everyone has equal rank forever. We will still have tournaments with one team winning and one team losing. But no rewards, and no match chest. At the most we can have an internal ladder so that equally skilled teams meet with more or less the same skill level.

I keep hearing people say they want to play “just for fun” and that the joy lies solely in the challenge and that rank etc don’t matter to them.

I want to know if these people are in the majority or the minority.

Disclosure: Rewards are the primary reason I play. I get “fun” out of progression, better armor to show off etc. It may sound lame, but I need a “carrot” dangled in front of me to take effort over anything and I get fun and joy out of obtaining bigger and tastier carrots.

Are you like this also?

pot.6805:

dpvp is nothing more then the op classes asking to duel the weak 1v1 classes. I swear every dueling server is filled with faceroll ez mode specs wanting to “duel” the lowest tier classes.

To reverse this: sPvP is nothing more than team based op classes asking to kill the weak team based classes. I swear, every hotjoin/tPvP server is filled with faceroll ez mode specs wanting to “team up” with the lowest tier classes.

See what I did there? Dueling and team play are two different types of builds. All we’re asking is for Anet to formalize this type of play which we all indulge in informally anyway.

There’s a big design mistake somewhere. tPvP is considered to be the elite form of sPvP. The rewards are supposed to far exceed those found in regular hotjoin.

And yet…

Since all the rank points in tPvP are awarded on a win, I deprive myself of a lot of potential points during the game. Such as not capping a point when there’s already someone there. Like not joining in on a kill when I know the existing guys can handle it. Like staying to defend a point rather than move to cap the next one. All of which is a waste if we lose the game and I end up with nothing.

Now this by itself is ok. That’s the motivation to become better right? If you play really well and have a good team then you’ll win most of your matches and gain lots of rank points that way.

Right? Wrong.

Because the matchmaking system is designed in such a way that you just start facing more difficult teams – theoretically you always have a 50/50 chance of winning/losing a tPvP match. And that makes forming a better team worthless. No matter how good you are, you always have the same chance of winning. And you get 200 rank points regardless of how high level the team is.

In hotjoin on the other hand I can reliably clock upwards of 200 rank points per game, averaging out a higher rank point accumulation speed than tPvP.

Isn’t there something wrong with this? There are two solutions I can see:

1. Award more tPvP rank point rewards for higher rated team ups
2. Do away with matchmaking – make it random.

The first seems to be the better solution. Higher rewards for the more skilled. Just like in chess – championship matches pay out far more than others. Only then can we have a fair system where skill is rewarded by getting more rank points.

fadeaway.2807:

bhagwad.4281:

When you sign up for a tPvP you make a commitment to stick with your team throughout the match.

Disagree sir. I’d say you sign up with the expectation of a fun and fair fight using arenanet’s sophisitcated matchmaking algorithms and rules. If that is delivered, then by all means fight with your team until the end. Close matches are everyone’s favorite, I’m sure. When that is not delivered I think a player has every right to walk away, since it’s not what they expected and certainly not why they are playing this game.

GW1 had a leaver’s penalty. It’s only a matter of time before they get one in GW2 as well. Players have the right to walk away of course. But there will be consequences to exercising that right.

Your team expects you to pull through and stay with them especially when they’re losing. Ditching them deserves punishment. Because remember you’re not in this by yourself in tPvP. Hotjoin, yes. tPvP no.

fadeaway.2807:

You cannot penalize people for leaving until the main reasons for leaving are addressed.
(5v4s, premades vs pugs, afkers etc).

Another cautious issue is being placed in a group with a load of heal spec warriors and signet mesmers. Why should you spend the next 15 mins of your life as a corpse because of a bad team? I think I’d rather auto run into a wall and go do something productive.

That’s the luck of the draw. When you sign up for a tPvP you make a commitment to stick with your team throughout the match. By leaving you make it worse for them and punish them for playing.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for leavers.

I was using this build yesterday in tPvP and felt the need for something tougher. Switched back to your immortal mesmer for that

This is good for dueling, not good for holding points since I prefer to keep a distance with this one and let my phantasms do the heavy lifting.

I envy you. I wish I was 5%. I’m 90% right now and I get matched up with solid premades full of 30s and 40s.

Can we switch places?

I had a lvl 1 in my team today. Opposing team lowest rank was 38

I have no clue what kind of matchmaking formula is in play here.

“Hey you mesmer – meet in front of keep k?”

and

“Rematch”

after starting to type something – then you get attacked
“ssssssssssseeeewwewewsqqqqqqqqqqq”

crap.

I suggest that as the matchups in tourneys become higher and higher, we get more glory rewards for winning instead of the standard 200.

Without this tweak, both low level and high level players accumulate rank points at the same rate which defeats the purpose of trying to become better. What’s the use of being high tier if you get the same rewards as others?

Sure at some level it’s fun to be more skilled, but is that enough? Motivations and carrots are equally if not more important to get people to play better no?

Dasorine.1964:

problem is if you not seeing the thief going into stealth/using his combo (as in walking into 900 range) then your unlikely to see that warrior at a longer range casting the spell.

Throw into that the fact that afterwards the warrior is still there with lots of stuff they can do, that warrior that has managed to get within 900 range and get the combo off you now has nothing left and is essentially a free kill for the next 45 seconds, if their combo is stopped (well timed dodge other defensive moves etc) then they’ve accomplished nothing and still don’t have anything else then can do.

Stealth lasts for 3 seconds at base, so thieves are not permanently invisible its highly unlikely that a thief can get in to burst you without being visible at some point, the moment they are visible you can take stock and come up with a counter play, if they are D/D you know full well they are going to be going for the steal into backstab as soon as they get into 900 range allowing you to start defenses and such.

A thief simply cannot one shot from stealth without a team buffing him up, at best they can three shot you from stealth but with plenty of times where it can be countered.

Technically a warrior has a better chance of 1 shotting from stealth than a thief does he would just need a team mate to set the stealth up for them.

Yet the fact remains that I’ve never been one shotted by surprise by a warrior. If you were to tally up the number of time this has happened to anyone playing GW2, what do you think the ratio of warrior/thief one shotting would be?

Taril.8619:

bhagwad.4281:

Warriors need to already be in combat to get the adrenaline for kill shot.

Healing Surge and Berserker Stance can be used to fill endurance without entering combat.

Adrenaline also doesn’t fade immediately upon leaving combat, it can stay maxxed out for a fair while after leaving before it starts to decay.

A warrior is rooted to the spot while his 1.75 second channel works. The target can go out of range, be obstructed accidentally, not to mention the glaringly obvious animation of a warrior kneeling down to line up his hit.

Base movement speed is 300 units per second. For a kill shot to work, the warrior has to start the shot while within a 675 unit range. Very easy to spot. Easily visible.

All the little things add up. Like also needing adrenaline. Individually none of these would be a problem. When you combine them, it makes a sudden burst out of nowhere very unlikely.

Many classes are able to dish out huge damage in one shot. But none of them have it quite so easy as a thief and no other class can do it that reliably.

I have no objections to losing to a thief in a fair fight. I’m a GC and if I make a mistake I die. I’ve never complained if I lose in a fair fight. But one shotting from stealth is not fair. No chance of counterplay, no chance to prepare.

And that is something no class should be able to do.

Dasorine.1964:

well the fact that you didnt see the thief turn the corner, see you and then stealth/warp means the actual period of time you are vulnerable is much greater than the 1 second (which only possible in the most optimal conditions such as you facing away from them and standing perfectly still).

Which means a warrior could have turned the corner and cast kill shot before you noticed them, a mesmer could have their clones up and heading to you before you notice them so on an so forth.

The moment the steal hits you can counter as well, you take damage: react with a roll, this could dodge the CnD it might not but you’d then be aware of them and they’d be out of position for the backstab etc.

the way your stating it went down makes it sound like you where standing still with your back to a path to your area with no defensive skills up or such. While the thief will have had sigil stacks and probably even might stacks from team mates to hit that level of damage.

I was just running to a point. Like everyone does. All the time. Mesmer clones run towards you so slowly that I can yawn before I dodge or put up a defensive skill. Warriors need to already be in combat to get the adrenaline for kill shot. And of course, they’re visible.

The average reaction time of a human being is half a second. Take into consideration the time to press the button, the signal reaching the servers, and I was dead before my stun break had the chance to even register.

I don’t mind dying. I’ve died to every class in the game. I enjoy good fights and dying to a well fought match with skilled play is fair. When there’s no chance of counterplay, that’s a problem.

I never have a problem with thieves when I know they’re in the vicinity. I throw up block skills, dodge, swing around randomly. The problem is when they burst from stealth and I don’t even know they exist in the area.