Much needed changes I could kill it solo on a necro in about 10-20 seconds if I had some life force built up going in.
It’s really a question of what’s feasible as far as I am concerned. Queues would explode imo if solos could only face solos and that’s why they are not doing it and its not going to happen so make peace with it. I mean think about it we already had solo queue at one point do you really think its because they want to punish you or something that they did away with it?
Season 2 was an improvement but to me league placement is still not an accurate reflection of personal skill. Still too easy to get to diamond and legendary. Still many many bad players who don’t know the basics getting diamond and legendary. The answer is probably league loss being possible starting with ruby or sapphire but I doubt A-net has the guts to do it with all the complaining about season 2.
Its painfully obvious there are tons of legendary and diamond players that used stronghold to advance in leagues and are really the type of player that would have an extremely hard time getting past ruby doing conquest only. Its totally unfair to conquest only players. I’ve seen a bunch of them today. How do I know because after abysmal performances I friended people to avoid them in queue and almost all of them did stronghold matches at some point afterwards and some just did nothing but stronghold.
Thats not how it should be though there are 5 spots in a group and 9 classes. Paper, Rock, Scissors design is bad. This game was not suppossed to be like that at least it was advertised as not being like that.
Division loss should start at ruby that would allow people to get the wings.
Do you need a mouse to play reaper MM? O_O…thought you didn’t even need to use a keyboard
You are an idiot but we already knew that already.
yall realize that is complete speculation? Has no bearing on balance patch.
You don’t know how A-net works if you think this is speculation. The only people they discuss these sorts of things with are pros. So if a couple of top Mesmers say X is coming I would tend to believe it myself.
Was no different in season one. Although I think people have different opinions on competitve matches. I personally think any match that starts out fairly close and stay close awhile is competitve even if the score ends up being 300-350ish or so to 500.
Wouldn’t say false. I would say exaggerated with very few people actually stuck in it. It’s basically what 99% of the people that aren’t where they feel they deserve to be in leagues blame instead of themselves. People love to blame imaginary forces beyond there control. It easier then to take an honest look at what you yourself are doing.
Have to be honest a lot of the feedback is worthless because most people that think they are in MMR hell are not and imo the system is mostly working fine and the problems are more related to the limits of whats in the queue at any given time. I agree though they should tell us what they are going to do so we can debate the merits of it.
Not from EU but would imagine it would be the same as it is in the United States. There are hours where you would expect the majority of people to be working, going to school, or sleeping and those would be less optimal times to play.
You need to stop playing for a bit any time you lose more then one game in a row.
Of course it will never be totally balanced. For one thing everyone has a different definition of what balanaced means. The pvp at A-net involved with balancing pvp probably have different definitions individually. That doesn’t mean you don’t try to reign in what’s op and bring classes as close together as possible. Some sort of consensus.
You doing poorly and being involved in a bunch of blow outs does not necessarily mean anything. We don’t know your skill level and there are always plenty of blow outs because things tend to snowball. There were plenty of blow outs in season 1 you probably didn’t mind as much because you were getting carried to victory in half your matches.
Understand the complaint but we already have a bunch of time between seasons with nothing do but awful unranked matches with the seasons as long as they are currently. If they were to shorten them they need to come up with something better for between seasons. Also, some people don’t play as much as other people do.
Not even close I don’t even look at chat half the time and if someone is being annoying I can block them. Give me the good player every time. Thats’ the main problem with this game too many people in ranked who’s first goal is not winning.
I suggest you read their post again. Stating that there are problems doesn’t mean that the system itself is broken.
The initial post in that thread has shown that the current matchmaking fails to correctly capture the skill of many players, to cathastrophic levels in significant number of cases. That, while on paper it should be better than the one from S1 (which, according to that post, is also terrible) , in practice, when applied to the real environment it ended up even worse (due to impact of many factors that were likely ignored in theoretical model).
In short, the conclusion was that the system is broken, even if this word has not been used.Stating that they’ll try to improve player experience doesn’t mean that the system is broken.
They have also acknowledged RubberDougie’s analysis. If they’ve disagreed with him, they would not have said that thay are aware of all those problems.
I suggest reading my response to Dyze again. One of the issues that I pointed out is the lack of player population at a given time for a given skill level.
Yes. That’s one of the factors that got ignored while designing the system and main reason why it’s broken when applied to our current sPvp population.
Lack of player population at certain times isn’t the fault of the system.
But it is. The system does not work well for the population it was used for. That’s a huge design flaw.
Again, that is just what you believe and how you are reading comments from A-net which is fine just don’t expect all people to agree with you at least not until A-net comes out and says what season 3 changes will be and they agree with your version of events/interpretation. Maybe your right maybe your wrong. I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for the return of MMR averaging teams if I was you though as that doesn’t promote league placement based on skill and allowed many people who did not know the basics to grind there way to diamond and higher.
A lot of baseless claims being made in this thread. I guess we’ll see what changes they have coming soon. I think a lot of you will be disappointed because I do not believe they will be going back to MMR averaging teams. If they do that they will be moving further away from the idea that league placement equals skill. I would imagine some changes to smooth out MMR hell for the people that are actually experiencing it, probably bringing back no pip loss for close games, and starting people out in higher leagues if they finished in diamond or legendary. Those are the types of things I see happening. But changing the idea that you will be grouped with people your skill level and face people near you in the league that is 100% sound in theory, even if in practice it needs refining, and because of that I don’t believe that aspect will be changed.
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None of this was a problem with balanced matchmaking.
What are you talking about? The way they did it season 1? Yeah no one complained about that at all they just totally revamped it for season 2 on a whim. Plenty of people complained about MMR averaging teams and if they go back to it plenty will be very displeased.
Way back when you had three game tournaments and could make pvp armor way better days then now.
I fee like I am in actual hell reading all the MMR hell threads.
Especially via team queue you have still a very high chance to get there independent from your skill level just because a team communicating via voice chat and working together will beat a team of solo queuers on the same skill level.
20-30% does not seem accurate though, more like 5-10% for me.
Which is totally appropriate imo. Not a big enough player base and not enough super skilled players at the very top to make it so it would only be the top 1-2%. Would probably have to institute league loss to make it even more exclusve which a majority of players would cry about.
Well you click your skills and really are playing on a super low skill floor. Yet you make threads claiming you are in MMR hell.
You really really should not be any higher with the way you play right now. First thing you should learn is use proper hotkey control and stop clicking skills via mouse. Post an update once you achieved this and I will give further feedback. Not playing much mesmer though.
Sure she should be lower then she is now, that’s why she in MMR hell. System doesn’t allow her to fall.
So i yet fail to see to see how your comments are connected to this thread when everyone in d3 are equal trash in comparison to each other.
She actually believes she should be higher by now but “MMR hell” prevents her from climbing. She posted such a thread about once a day in the past couple of weeks. I don’t support people trashtalking her ingame but the whole thing kind of showed how most people believing MMR hell keeps them “stuck” on low division are just not very good.
Ding Ding Ding. Nobody deserves to be abused in game but Ithilwin is a known thread spammer about how the system is keeping them down blah blah blah. Watching the video its pretty clear why they are stuck where they are. That being said kudos to him/her for tying to get better. That’s more then 99% of people complaining about MMR hell do. It would be better on the whole if people would elicit feedback on there game play first in game or here before blaming outside forces. That doesn’t mean there aren’t outside forces the system can certainly be improved but really you have people posting they lost 20 games in a row and its the system’s fault?
That’s the problem with these discussions they all start with erroneous assumptions and the worst one is that people are going to keep advancing after a certain point. Why do people think they will never plateau? Everyone can’t be the best. I haven’t made it out of diamond yet either and if I play anohter 50 matches and don’t make it Im not going to blame some glitch in the system on it.
Ok buddy so its better for the system to have the best player in the world possibly group with the worst if the queue is small enough theoretically and the worst player to get wins based on that. Having people of the same skill level group together is 100% sound idea. Its up to A-net to tweak it so its not so problematic for the lower skilled player. We either want league placement based on skill or we don’t. Forcing experienced players to have to group with complete noobs, Im not even talking about skill level totally just players with thousands of hours of experience being matched with complete beginners as teammates, how is that fairer? It’s 100% not fair. You are one of these I’m suffering people so I want to make it so everyone suffers. That’s ridiculous. The idea season 2 is crafted around is 100% sound it’s up to A-net to tweak it to most reduce or eliminate MMR hell. Going back toward MMR averaging to help lower skill players get carried through more games by luck of the draw getting the best players in the match there is nothing competitve about that. That’s how tons of bads lucked there way to diamond and legendary last season through sheer grinding.
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This is another exaggerated problem just like MMR hell. Im stuck where Im at because of all these high level players playing alt accounts. Im stuck were Im at because my MMR tanked and now all I get are bad players as teammates. See where I’m going with this? Just think rationally how many of these alt accounts there would have to be and how often they would have to be played for this to be more then a minor problem for lower skill players. In addition these accounts move right on through anyway to there true skill level very fast. That being said I don’t really understand why these exist either. I have alt accounts I play but they were purchased back in the day before world sharing and I don’t really switch between them in pvp seasons although there is one I play as a solo only account but I don’t have enough time to play multiple accounts a lot I barely have enough time for one.
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Why because most of the people including a lot of the MMR whiners thinks they know everything when in fact they don’t know much at all. If they wanted to improve there are tons of resources already to improve. Many are arrogant little kiddies as well I don’t know how to put it otherwise and I’m using kiddies liberally a lot are snot nosed college age kids that think they know everyhting I’m not talking about actualy little kids (12-14 year old) although there are a lot of those too.
i think this contest is “stupid” : in post https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell
Evan of anet admits clearly that there are some problems and that they are working on them If a company spends money on a problem , it is becouse the problem is real … otherwise none want to throws away his money … MMR hell is something real and known to ANET also ( they said it, not me )OP was created before the topic you refer to, Tenebria proved it exists even before the topic was created, so the contest is not stupid for the time it was created.
Except Ensign’s model was more toward proving it didn’t exist. Read the whole post don’t cherry pick want you to see. A-net has acknowledged there is a problem that doesn’t mean anybody is 100% right. We’ve had leagues for what four months now of course it will be constantly revised over time. While MMR hell might exist most of the people that think they are stuck in it really aren’t. If they keep leagues solely skill based as they plan is there goal there will always be a lot of people that can’t advance past the first few leagues. If your someone that has lost 20 games in a row or more I wouldn’t wipe my brow going whew A-net is going to make things all better for me with the next iteration. That would be a gigantic mistake imo. People should always be trying to improve and stop trying to blame everything on things that may or may not be effecting them like MMR hell.
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Is there really proof that there are tons of high level players playing on alt accounts. I am not saying it doesn’t happen but does it happen enough that its a real problem. Same with MMR hell. I am not disputing it does exist just how many people are actually stuck in it and if they do change matchmaking isn’t there a chance that what the come up with also has some sort of MMR hell? Almost every game that uses this kind of rating large amounts of people claim they are stuck in MMR Hell. Probably only A-net really know because they have all the data. I don’t really have a strong opinion on what changes could be made for the better but I would perfer not to be placed with people of significantly less experience personally I’ve been playing for a few years now and I don’t feel its fair for me to be placed with players that do not know the basics. To me it really does seem sound to match you with people your skill your skill level and then you play against whoever is near you in the league. If league placement is supposed to be skill based how else are you going to do it? I am interested in ideas I just think what they came up with make sense even if there were some mistakes in implementation. The main thing is do we want league placement to be a sign of skill only. I say aye to that.
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I don’t know why people think that they should keep advancing. I have no clue whether there is an MMR hell or not but whats wrong with being in Diamond. Legendary is meanignless if everyone can get there. Thats the main problem with this whole thing is people think they should be legendary and if they can’t get there something must be wrong. Thats why we can’t have productive discussion on anything because everyone thinks they are a legendary caliber player. Full discoluse I capped out at diamond last season and I may or may not make it this season to legendary. Im about two tiers away so I would say I probably will but you never know I could lose 5 in a row tommorrow. One thing I know for sure is I don’t feel entitled to it at all. I am sick of the sense of entitlement that prevades all aspects of society. Someone has what I want but some invisible force is keeping me down. Now sometimes something might be but for most people there is no secret force oppressing them. Its tiresome to listen to the victim mentality coupled with a bizarre sense of entitlement.
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Whatever they do you can count on one thing there will be plenty of complaining in season 3. Just like seasons 1 and 2. Everyone thinks they are a diamond or better player. I dont care what system they come up with you are always going to be limited by what is in the queue at a given time. If they go back to some kind of MMR averaging where players like me that have thousands of matches get matched with complete noobs all the time for team mates when I solo again I know I wont be staying around thats for sure. Im all for making things better but we should not go back toward MMR averaging and trying to force 50/50 outcomes. That imo rewards the worse players at least as much as this system rewards the better players by giving them lots of wins they woudl never get on there own.
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How can we prove any of those things you want when we don’t know anybodies MMR. Thats the problems with all these things you are making claims about x when we don’t know x. Thats why I question things like MMR hell because we don’t know everyones X. Is that really that hard to understand?
It’s simple simulation, you don’t need to know anybody’s MMR to simulate it.
it is explain to me how we are going to do it. Simulate it if its so easy. Whats a skill level of 75% mean? If its so easy you do it. Maybe it is but maybe it isn’t I don’t claim to be some kind of mathematical genius. But if its so easy someone do the math to prove MMR hell. Its goes two ways buddy I never said I knew 100% there wasn’t a MMR Hell just that I feel like it probably doesn’t exist based on what A-net has told us about MMR but for you to say its easy to prove and then it exists and then you won’t prove it thats ridiculous. You will never win a debate among adults that way. Its for the people that claim 100% there is a MMR hell to prove it. I am getting sick of this nonsense.
Hm did you read whole OP post ? Basically MMR hell in chess, does not exist, it doesn’t exist in LoL or Dota or CS:GO. Because those games doesn’t artificially tune the MMR system.
We have grind system in conjunction with mmr system, where safe guards exist. It’s easy to assume that matches which should not happen by the nature of how real MMR system works will happen in GW2 system.
I’m not going to get into mathematical theory with you because as I have already admitted I am not an expert. I do not feel there are a signficant amount of people that are trapped in a league below there skill level based of some kind of glitch in the system. It would be nice if A-net would weigh in on the subject. I am not going to get into discussions based on probabilities based on the way they have set the system up and the way they calculate MMR compared to other games. And I did read the other post and it contained a lot of assumptions if those assumptions were right sure there is a MMR hell. And in that article the op admits some of it is opinion not fact. I just don’t think it accomplishes anything positive to give credence to stuff that is not 100% fact. and then ask people that doubt you to prove it, without really proving it yourself, and then don’t really give a clear better alternative. Just my 2 cents.
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How can we prove any of those things you want when we don’t know anybodies MMR. Thats the problems with all these things you are making claims about x when we don’t know x. Thats why I question things like MMR hell because we don’t know everyones X. Is that really that hard to understand?
It’s simple simulation, you don’t need to know anybody’s MMR to simulate it.
it is explain to me how we are going to do it. Simulate it if its so easy. Whats a skill level of 75% mean? If its so easy you do it. Maybe it is but maybe it isn’t I don’t claim to be some kind of mathematical genius. But if its so easy someone do the math to prove MMR hell. Its goes two ways buddy I never said I knew 100% there wasn’t a MMR Hell just that I feel like it probably doesn’t exist based on what A-net has told us about MMR but for you to say its easy to prove and then it exists and then you won’t prove it thats ridiculous. You will never win a debate among adults that way. Its for the people that claim 100% there is a MMR hell to prove it. I am getting sick of this nonsense. Also, saying the current system can be improved is not the same as saying there is MMR hell. Of course the system can be and should be improved.
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How can we prove any of those things you want when we don’t know anybodies MMR. Thats the problems with all these things you are making claims about x when we don’t know x. Only A-net knows X. Thats why I question things like MMR hell because we don’t know everyones X. Then you say something like someone with 50% skill. What does that even mean? When you lay out parameters that people can actually test maybe someone will take you up on it. It would actually be helpful if A-net would post about this and either give some kind of credence to idea or to totally shoot it down if they can. With my understanding how MMR works no I don’t believe there is MMR hell and why should I have to prove it to you although imo with the information we have currently available its pretty much impossible to prove either way!
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Of course your not the only one. The unhappy people are going to post. The happy people, for the most part, are not going to post. I probably split my time 50/50 between small groups and solo and I like season 2 better overall for both. I was able to rank up faster and I feel like the general quality of my teammates has been better although obviously there is a limit based on whats in the queue at any given time I still get plenty of knobs but overall I feel the quality of team mate when I solo is higher then season 1.
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Whats the suppossed to mean because you lost a lot its the systems fault. I haven’t ever had a streak like that and Im not even diamond yet still one tier to go although I admit I haevn’t played as much as I noramlly do.
It’s not easy to manipulate MMR at all.
You are still overestimating how fast your personal MMR rises or falls at any level of games. Just because you have a 70% win rate on the noob account doesn’t mean it has a higher MMR then an account with thousands of games and a win rate of 55%. It almost certainly does not. It wouldn’t make sense at all for it too. A-net should just make everyones MMR visible so we can be done with this nonsense once and for all.
The Matchmaking is fine if its working as they claim it should. What’s fairer then being grouped with people closest to you in the league in MMR and facing people near you in pips. You know what’s not fair forcing 50/50 outcomes over strings of games and putting experienced players with complete noobs which is what they did season one.
Of course you don’t like its harder to advance for a large portion of the playerbase then season 1. Last season almost anyone could hit diamond or higher through grinding. Just play enough games and with a little luck (a streak of games with higher MMR teammates carrying you etc) and things like no pip loss on close games and multiple pip wins and an eggplant could get to at least diamond in time. Most people don’t want league placement based on skill and while this season isn’t perfect its closer to that then season one was.
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Anbody who has lost 18 in a row is a pretty bad player. I am really comfortable in saying that. I don’t know anybody in game who has lost anywhere near that many games in a row ever and all my friends are ruby or diamond not like I play with the elites or something just average players. If league placement is supposed to be an idicator of skill then some people are going to lose a lot there is no way around it. No one is forcing anyone into ranked. That’s the disconnect I think. Either it’s going to be solely about skill or its not. A-net should weigh in and tell us what direction they are thinking of going in season 3. If its back toward 50/50 w-l forcing and MMR averaging teams some might like but Ill be out of here personally. If I had it my way they would put in division loss and tier loss starting league one and half the people whining on these boards would be stuck in leagues 1 and 2 forever.
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Basically yes, if you have a low mmr from a losing streak etc, a new amber account will have average mmr, it will be higher than yours, you will get better teammates…….
Not really true. Your MMR isn’t going to tank because of a losing streak if you have a lot of games played. Also, for example if you lost 10 games in a row and every time the other side had higher MMRs your rating wouldn’t really budge. MMRs just aren’t as volatile as people think.
I wonder if some folks can read. "It’s not MMR hell, it’s just that you are teamed wit player who shouldn’t be in their division ". But they are on his division, so what’s your point??
Op this what many of us have been experiencing, and tbh I mo longer give an iota about this season. But yeah, this season is a dice game, the luckier you are/ the better your MMR is; more wins are going to fall under your belt.
Not really true. I played warrior all the way until late ruby because I was stubborn and wanted to make a point to all those crybabies that tell better players to switch class.
Admittedly warrior is in an extrmely bad spot right now (which means you will lose vs equally skilled people 100% of the time) and the whole thing resulted in terrible games with people puposefully afking and me trashtalking back. My MMR became abysmal in the progress.
At somepoint I switched to scrapper/druid. The recovery was hard but I managed to carry many games (which is rather easy when all players in your team but also in the enemy team (!) are trash) and I am now very close to legend. If anything then MMR hell exists only for bad/mediocre players and the whole pupose of the league system actually is that those players do NOT reach legend. If everybody could do it then where is the point?
Out of curiosity I have 3 questions for you based on the bold underline part of your reply.
1)When you say your MMR became abysmal what do you mean by “abysmal”?
2)How is it logical to say having trash teammates make carrying easy?
3)Why are you so sure your case is representative of others?
Those “trash” teammates of his are people with the closest MMR to him in the league. He doesn’t even understand how the matchmaking works so attempting to discuss something he doesn’t understand isn’t going to get anyone anywhere. We have all these people that claim they are carrying people that are the same MMR level as themselves which is a ludicrous idea. Hey these people are about the same skill level as me but Im doing all the work! Also, they have no clue how MMR works it doesn’t magically become abysmal it would take an insane amount of losses compared to wins to drop your MMR significantly once its established like hundreds of games or being really bad if you have a few thousands games played. Also, you don’t even take a MMR hit on a loss if the other side had higher MMRs. Its just a crying fest with almost no basis in reality and its getting boring all these MMR hell nonsense posts and thats what they are 100% nonsense.
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Every think that maybe your just not legendary quality? That maybe the reason for the suddenly losing is you have finally starting get placed against people better then you the majority of the time? Why does everyone and I mean everyone not just you thinks they should keep winning at a high level forever? There are people better then you at this game and probably quite a few of them.
The reason there is no MMR hell is because you are being teamed with people closest to you in the league in MMR. So simple logic would tell you if there bad you couldn’t be much better. I think the idea some are clinging too is somehow teammates caused there MMR to tank so now they are stuck with bad players as teammates every match which is dubious because your MMR is etablished over many many games.
the good players ending up one side is how it works if your are on the other side you are a bad player lol because the game is putting you with people your skill level verus whoever is near you in the league. The other things are legitiamate concerns. Regardless though things like uneven matches are not necessarily a sign of naything things tend to snowball and season one had tons of uneven matches.
There is no such thing as MMR hell. Your MMR is established over a looong period of time and it would take a ludicrously bad long streak of games to drop it significantly once its built up probably hundreds with a very low winning percentage. Also, you don’t take a hit to MMR when you lose to teams with higher MMR. Its a myth. IF you think you are someone with 1000’s of games played and you went 10-40 or something and that dropped your MMR enough that your stuck with really bad players based on that I got a bridge to sell you somehwere.
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