Guild Wars 2

A-net is fail at class balancing? No way! Regardless should be hilarious patch tommorrow where they nerf nothing. Since hot the diversity of builds that can be used in competitve pvp has done nothing but gotten less and less. They even nerfed a fair ammount of stuff and it didn’t really change anything still only a few viable ways to play. It’s a sad joke and they should be embarrased but it’s obvious they are immune to embarrassment at this point so it tells me they think they are doing a good job. Great job fellas!

99% of people still don’t understand what leagues are supposed to be about. They aren’t supposed to be grindable they are supposed to be a reflection of your actual skill level which they laughably weren’t last season. If it works right you will only go as far as you deserve to go.

Stand The Wall.6987:

What you are saying makes no sense. People should absolutely be rewarded for a win streak, not because others cant achieve it, but because they can. As for the punishment part, there isnt any really, they just lose their streak and have to regain it. If you stop to think about it, and like Chaith said already, if good players are getting win streaks, then that means they will no longer be playing in lower divisions thus leaving said divisions with a better matchmaking experience. If you are having trouble reaching a win streak, well, form/join a team, get on ts, and practice together. Nothing is stopping you.

I swear lol this looks like a republican fear mongering tactic. No offense, I just couldnt help but notice the similarities.

Yeah Democrats never do this. Republicans want to put black people in chains and voter ID laws are a form of pole tax just to give you a couple of the worst memes floated by you honest Democrats. Most serious people understand that no political party is wholly good or bad because they are made up of millions of people and there isn’t a political trick both sides haven’t used since day one to motivate voters. No apology coming from me because Im not a weasel progressive like you that bad mouths people and then tries to apologise for it. No apology from me you are a tool.

Changes sound pretty good to me. I think people over-estimate the player base size with some of the queue changes they want A-net to implement and how it would effect queue times. Sounds good for now no more full groups versus all solos but it can always be tweaked further later if that’s not good enough. The mostly solo people need to understand that solo queue is not coming back and make a decision based on that whether they want to stick with the game or not. Seems foolish to me to keep playing and expecting something that’s not coming. If its the big of a deal to you no one is forcing you to play.

Tim.6450:

brannigan.9831:

It just seems silly to me to invalidate 3 years worth of work. I would have no problems with elites being a bit stronger if the old trait lines all fit in workable builds along with the elite which they 100% do not. Most classes have multiple trait lines that no one uses in spvp anymore because they don’t synergise much at all with the builds that work with the elite. That’s dumb imo.

It does not invalidate 3 years of work since you still have 2 pick other traitlines. Also multiple traitlines that aren’t used, has been a bane for a long time before HoT.

Pyriall.1683:

They need to first start with detaching the weapon from the trait lines.

On the contrary, it only creates more power creep. More equal choices == power creep. It would make elite specs less desirable though.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

There needs to be a reason to run without an elite spec, but my opinion is that elit specs should be balanced against each other. Right now, this is impossible, since there is only one per class. In the future, though…

I would aggree but the current design of elite specs does not allow it. The only thing I could think of is too make elite specs a bit more of a plus-min game by making it remove a weapon type and a utility set. However it would mean some traits are useless which does not sound like a good idea as well.

Silverkey.2078:

From what I understand, your point is that the elite specs has access to more traits (6 traitlines) and more skills (1 more weapon and skill category) and is therefore stronger.

This is not really true. First, all builds (core or elite) have access to 3 traitlines, so they have the same number of traits to choose from. A better way to say it, is that when you make your build, you choose 3 lines, and sometimes one of them happens to be an elite spec line.

The only somewhat true part is that once you have chosen your traitlines, you have more skills to pick if you slotted an elite spec. But this is greatly minimized (or should be) by synergies. The key is that the elite spec should bring a new role and playstyle to the class. So it should be (one of) the best choice(s) whenever you want to play this role, but not the best choice if you want another role.

That would be true if we have “pure” roles. However our roles are muddled by a need of being selfsufficient. A lot of builds have acces to damage migitation, cc, healing, … .

Silverkey.2078:

So my point is that there are many ways to design the new specs so that they have a clear role and are not always the best in all situations.

The problem with that is again overspecialisation is not a good thing in this game.

Silverkey.2078:

It has nothing to do with having the traits and skills weaker than the core, but simply making sure they have a clear focus and are not CLEARLY STRONGER than core ones.

Most actually are not stronger then core specs. It simply that elite specs has acces to “full” core specs (it misses one trait line in most cases most likely their 3th weakest one ). So it is not the skills are stronger, you can just pick the ones that suit your build better.

Silverkey.2078:

And at the end, if some bunker guards choose DH to get some additional survivability at the expanse of some support, I am perfectly fine with it. I just want to ensure that the elite specs has a clear opportunity cost, which is not always the case currently.

Most have oppurtunity costs but it is not that high by design. The loss of a trait line is quite low because you can choose which one. In terms of skills , you only gain more options.

Note however, that I think the new weapons and skills should be given to both core and elite specs.

No, this just results in more power creep.

LughLongArm.5460:

@Tim.6450,

The elite trait lines are stronger by design, how do I know? They’re being referred to as an “Elite” and have a restriction which limits the player to play with only one of them at a time.

We feel the power creep now because this is the first “Elite” trait line. Next expansion when we’ll have 2 elites trait lines, I don’t think the new elite will be a power creep over the current one, Just a different way to play your profession.

I don’t think this is the reason why elite specs are stronger by design. I believe that the extra options give it the edge.

LughLongArm.5460:

Because we supposed to pay for extra content only and not for a power creep, we need to address the gap between core professions and elite professions, the solution is simple.

• Make the old profession mechanic trait line an “Elite” trait lines, because you can’t run 2 elites trait lines this change will break most if not all, meta builds.

This would work with the classes that didn’t tie the new mechanics to the old ones, like druid or thief. But it would be stupid with reaper or warrior since the reaper still maintains the concept of life force and the own line does not offer much of support in that department. Same for warrior and adrenaline. Thoses classes would get elite traits that are almost duplicates of their previous ones like “class mechanic has a 20% lower cooldown”. So much for a new way to play. Also there is already a cost in trait lines due to being forced in the specialisation line.

LughLongArm.5460:

• Making the old profession mechanic trait line to be classified also as an “Elite”, is enough to bring back pre-hot builds and reduce the effectiveness of current elite builds.

I think it would require a redesign of some elite lines are in need then.

LughLongArm.5460:

• Like you I think that the elite trait lines, while very strong, by themselves are not as powerful as most think. It’s the synergy with the old profession mechanic trait lines which makes the builds very superior compared to non elite builds.

Like you I think it is a synergy aspect because you have more options you can take the ones that synergises best. However I don’t think that is the class mechanic line by default for instance tempest did not run arcane, chronobunker did not run illusions and reaper’s best synergy is with spite and not soul reaping.

LughLongArm.5460:

*Just think about druid without the BM trait line, Reaper without the soul reaping trait line, DH without the virtues traitline etc….

It scares me to think that elite trait line specs would be reduced to mechanic traitline v2.

LughLongArm.5460:

*I do think that any new profession content that comes with expansion like weapons and skills, should be locked behind the “elite spec” as its more of a content issue rather than a balance issue. Some of the Meta builds even don’t use the new weapons and utilities some use a combination of both old and new. I rarely see a player with running around with all the new toys as an effective build.

I think they do this split to keep a better eye on balance and future skills. By keeping weapons and skills locked behind elite specs, they don’t have to think about synergy between those locked skills. Which makes it easier to balance and gives the developpers more options for new skills and traits since potential synergy is less of an option.

LughLongArm.5460:

For that reason, the old profession mechanic trait line, even when classified as an “Elite”, will not lock any content from players specing into HOT elite builds, but will deny the strong trait synergy between two very strong trait lines.

So you are trying to limit the option of better synergy by locking out a trait line. I can get that however I don’t think that locking the mechanic line is the best choice. Sometimes some renments of the old class mechanic are kept needing these lines intact.

Whether that type of situation (limited diversity and many trait lines rarely being used) existed before does not excuse it being every worse now. Elite being too strong is a problem because it makes builds even less diverse then they were before which wasn’t diverse to begin with. Its not a hard concept to grasp. You might be ok with most classes using 3 or 4 trait lines at most in a tiny selection of workable builds but many people are not.

If you lose every game you are down by 100 in there is something wrong with you. Not saying I agree with the change but don’t exaggerate its not that rare to come back from 100 points down I mean really you going to give up down 150-50 for example? That can easily happen and be reversed.

Another BS story about the dog eating my homework. Even if its true how about taking a couple days off and clearing the dishonor or playing hotjoins until you clear it? It’s not as easy as you claim it is to build up a one hour dishonor time out.

What does “work” mean? If you mean you can beat people you are better at the game then with it yes it works. Against people your own skill level or better you would find there are many class/builds out there that are better. Imo there is no guardian build that really justifies a place in a unique group let alone one where you could stack professions. To sum it up Guardian is still non meta.

They don’t care about Spirit Weapons. Its obvious. They have actually made a lot of changes to them over the years and they are actually worse then they were at the beginning when they at least were basically invulnerable.

It just seems silly to me to invalidate 3 years worth of work. I would have no problems with elites being a bit stronger if the old trait lines all fit in workable builds along with the elite which they 100% do not. Most classes have multiple trait lines that no one uses in spvp anymore because they don’t synergise much at all with the builds that work with the elite. That’s dumb imo.

Lexander.4579:

Dojo.1867:

Lexander.4579:

my matches are totally fine but you people will never be happy

Those posts are effectively useless. What tells me you aren’t one of those players that tell me to “chill, it’s unranked” after a complete clown fiesta point running zerg fest?

Some people want a competitive game with people playing for the win. The current situation couldn’t be more far away from that and if you think it’s fine then you are propably just some casual. That is totally okay for me but arenanet continously tries to sell me the esports story. Then it is not okay.

i never in my life said “chill its unranked” because i totally hate and despise those kittentards who think raging and verbally abusing their teammates is justified when they are in ranked

as for matchmaking its fine, get over it, you people will never be happy

Stop throwing around “you people” it makes you look like more of a Troll then you already are. Who are “you people” by the way the people that actually want A-net to keep working on and improving the game? I have no problem being lumped into that group of “you people”. We can argue to what degree but most people agree there are some glitches in the matchmaking. You are in the definite minority if you think matchmaking is as good as they can make it never mind the fact there is nothing original about “complaining” about the complainers. The group of “you people” I wouldn’t want to be a part of is the one’s that have there head in the sand and never want to hold the game developer’s to be accountable for anything. You seem to be a proud member of “those people”.

Lexander.4579:

Suddenly in the Forums Everyone is now a Game designer!

Not sure why you put them on so high a pedastool? There are many people that post on these boards regularly that are at least as smart if not smarter then the devs at A-net and many of them have backgrounds in computer science and mathmatics that could match any of theres. That’s not a knock on them its just a fact. Some of these companies have actually hired players to siginificant spots over the years. Mike Lescault at Mythic back in the day on Dark Age of Camelot one day he was just the Guild Master of one the largest guilds in the game the next he was the main balance honcho at Mythic. Most of these dudes are like 25-30ish years old with like 5-10 years experience tops you act like they are all the Ben Carson’s of computer gaming. They are far from infallable. Again not meant as an attack just stating facts.

Saiyan.1704:

baroi.3264:

Enjoy the people raging on you.
- Condition cleansing by Smite Condition and Smiters Boon.
- Glacial Heart selected again. (You can use AR if have enemies with heavy cond pressure)
- Heavy cc chain!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJASTn8cCVDhVdCmDBkdilEi6aZDgEQe5j+sPL/+wAE-TZBFABiXGQ+9HI4IAAwlAohHAAA

Zealot’s Embrance -> JI -> Test of Faith -> Banish -> Spear of Justice -> Pull ->Ring of Warding -> Change Weapon -> True Shot….

Hunter’s Ward -> Dragons Maw -> JI -> Mighty blow -> Ring of Warding -> Test of Faith -> Banish -> Auto Attack…

many combos you can do…
have fun!

No condi removal other than Smite Condition?

There’s a good reason why we go for Absolute Resolution in TPvP. A competent Reaper will chew you up and spit you out

Sadly a competent reaper will chew you up either way but of course you want AR.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Vague Memory.2817:

It might be better for the OP to find out why he is having so many DCs. Whether that be game crashes or internet drops. I used to get fairly frequent DCs and eventually found out the cause which in my case was one bad memory stick (giving a memory address error crash). Another cause was the GW2 32 bit client, but when they gave us the 64bit beta client that stopped that for full map events like Teq.

I’ve looked into it, and it’s nothing on my system. Nor my ISP. I don’t normally lose connection to the game, but when I do I get a Cannot connect to login servers. I sometimes get this error message and not get dropped from the game, so it’s safe to say it’s on ANets end not mine. Also I only get DC’s from GW2. Nothing else.

Stop beating around the bush and tell us how many times you disconnected in a 24 hour period to get to that large of a time out. I’ve already laid it out that I remember missing about three queues in a 24 hour period and the time out was about 10 minutes. You must have missed a LOT of queues. You say its harsh yet you won’t tell us a rough estimate of how many disconnects you had. My feeling is it has to be quite a lot. And you are wrong to say that after a queue drops when you queue again you get a match in seconds. That’s not even close to true. You may or more likely its going to take close to as long as the first queue. Stop being selfish Fluffball is 100% correct.

Dojo.1867:

Bear on the job.6273:

lol @ Druids are easily killable.

If you are killing Druids easy, you are playing against bads. Go queue pls.

Druid meta build is more easy to kill than following classes:

• necro
• thief
• revenant
• dh
• scrapper

Menders is as tanky as Marauder amulet. The high healing doesn’t matter since cc is required to kill stuff anyway.

No way. Maybe one or two of those. Can we have an honest discussion without fudging the facts? I am not sure this skill is op or not I am going to have to see it in practice in something more then unranked but I am leaning toward op because it is close to a guaranteed rez with good players and I thought we wanted to stop things like that hence why Mesmers got nerfed. A timely rez can be a fight turner A-net has to be very careful with trivializing them in any way shape or form.

No more useless then plenty of other classes if we want to use the old optimum versus everything else. Thief useless, Guardian useless, and Warrior useless as well.

Blue.1207:

Evan Lesh.3295:

It sounds like you’re disconnected multiple times in the last day or two to get a timeout that long.

Really? Do you think over the last day or two isn’t overkill?

Come on now don’t be obtuse a 44 minute time out is the result of quite a few disconnects/queue dodges over a pretty short period of time. I think I missed three queue in one 24 hour period the time out was like 10 minutes or possibly shorter after the last of the three.

bbennett.7463:

Thanks anet you guys are doing great dont listen to these kittens complaining

Yes, the players don’t know anyting we are morons. Don’t act on information from markets. Markets are dumb. A small group of so called “experts” should make all the decisions.

Silv.9207:

Is from the patch that everyone (me either) cry and say that everything is bad.

Now I’ve played a little more matches and find out that the game is fine. Not perfect but really good.

Then I’m here to say: ANet, good job!

Remove bunker amulets and celestial was the perfect move for change the “meta” from bunkers to dps, fixing finally a lot of problems. And the fixes on different problematic combinations of traits and skills was really good.

Actually I see a larger variety of classes in spvp. Warriors and thieves finally have a place (the warrior can burst down people really fast, for those that think that is still bad). Scrapper and druids are a little over the top but they’re not totally op. Mesmers can play they’re ds build and also a hybrid build to be more bunkerous.
Is pretty well balanced. Still some fixes and little balances to do but is a really good situation for more or less every class.

The only one that I don’t see often is the Elementalists. The reason isn’t that they’re bed, why they’re Not. The ele is still really good and viable. But then why no one play it? Why every ele cry? The reason is simple: They’re role is Changed. And they’re not good to adapt. After years of celestial hybrid/bunker build, every ele learned to play in a single way and be able to stay both in the second line and in the middle of the fight surviving to everything with the same build, that more or less never changed (only a moment of air fresh, but now they insist to don’t try it again, still if it’s actually really strong).
If they find a new good build to deal damage OR support (not both the things in the same op build like the past age), they will find a role and be happy.

I think that the game is well balanced, just some little fix to do to grant the people more build variety and then there’s nothing bad in that “meta”.

Finally a dps meta. After years of bunkers nd only bunkers I feel really happy.

Was never years of only bunkers. Post HOT meta was basically only bunkers but before that the only real bunker was Guardian there were plenty of glass builds that were meta over the years.

Scrapper and Reaper that’s all you need.

It’s definitely unbalanced that kind of damage. Defenders will tell you thieves are too squishy so it doesn’t matter but regardless its still not balanced. X is never a defense for Y. That kind of damage has no place in this game I don’t care if the person doing it has 1 vitality and falls over when looked at.

Obtena.7952:

Jeez … Guardian was never NOT in the meta. These ridiculous ideas are from ranters trying to convince everyone that Guardian/DH is a horrible class. Funny that they got some of you.

In spvp they weren’t no one ran a DH among the top teams in ESL. Im not sure they will next season but they sure are getting annoying in random solo qeueue. The elite is poorly designed it requires very little skill to play.

No thanks I don’t want to play a clown with a bow with overpowered idiot traps. I’d like my old support bunker back I dont want to play a ranger in heavy armor its so ludicrous the DH idea not to mention it is a total low skill spec with tons of defensive cooldowns, self heals, and aoe spamming plus a ludicrously hard hitting single target skill on a low cooldown. It wasn’t noticeable before because of all the other broken stuff but now that stuff got nerfed all the feebleminds are now playing DH and Im seeing a minimum of 4 of them combined in most of spvp matches when you total up the ammount on both sides. All you are doing is begging for nerfs.

For the longest time ensuring stomps and rez were one of the main functions of bunker guardians a build that a-net basically killed when they removed vitality from traitlines and imo the most balanced bunker there ever was in pvp. A-net should help bring that build back lots of players loved it. I don’t want to play a clown bow user.

Keksmuffin.1450:

They would be pretty broken if they wouldn’t be clunky.

Not even close to true. Guardians are clearly at there low point ever at least when it comes to spvp. They have never been weaker. DH virtues need some more tweaking.

Salamander.2504:

mrauls.6519:

Salamander.2504:

Saiyan.1704:

How about the fact Engi’s retal procs are higher, lasts longer and deals more damage than Guardians.

Can scrapper provide team retal though? As far as I know, only the Guardian’s signet of judgement, save yourselves, and aegis (with wrathful spirit) can give team-wide retaliation in a 600 radius. In a team fight that can actually be really great.

I think the bigger issue here that I’m hearing is that jesus is no longer viable since the Jan. 26 patch because Scrapper just does it all better.

In PvP I hope I don’t have an ally guardian using a signet… or wrathful spirit

Well me neither, but that doesn’t change how the dev’s designed it: Guardian is the only class with the capability to provide AOE retal, so comparing guardian retal uptime with engi’s isn’t really a fair comparison.

Edit P.S. Back when bunker guard was viable, switching valor our for zeal was totally legit. Between the shattered aegis spam and wrathful spirit retal in team fights, I was getting 500k dps a game as a bunker. You take a hit by losing out on AH, but shrug, at the time (pre-HoT d/d ele bruiser meta) the DPS wasn’t so bad so you could get away with it if you managed your cooldowns intelligently and didn’t spam. Oh the good old days…

No it was not legit.

It seems simple to me just have ranked that doesnt really mean anything like we used to but will keep the total trash of unanked only people the heck away from us.

Squeeky wheel gets the greats. Its trash and I dont want to play with complete noobs there are enough in ranked.

Why is this exactly? They look at me like I have three heads when I ask random people to do it. Its an important part of the game I know people think they there are awesome and can solo kill people easily but really. You don’t like the target change it then but you should be using this simple function.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

scrubs need to learn and play more than 1 class. i mean how do they even know what the other class is doing if they dont know how it works?

This isn’t a job for some people chief because you know some of us have actual jobs, other interest and gasp some of us families of our own. I don’t have the time to master 8 thousand builds. How do I know what they are doing? By facing them over and over again, reading up, and watching vids. They can and should do much better with the class stacking portion of the matchmaking algorithm. Stop it with the stockholme syndrome. They can do better period.

Lol that’s just sad.

What a load. The last meta was three and a half classes. Like 95% elementalist herald, tempest, and chrono with the occassional scrapper or even rarer Druid at high levels of play.

Ohoni.6057:

Yes. Let’s say you queue as a thief but there’s already one on your team, then you switch it up. Or you could see that the other team has two of something that hardcounters what you’re on, so you switch to something that hardcounters them.

Oh, I totally get why you’d WANT to do that, I just don’t see why they should allow it.

Let’s say you have your example, but you have an identical example on the other team, two thieves there too. But in your team, you have some other class that you’re good at, set up, ready to go, so you switch, and your team is stronger for it. On the other side, neither of the Thieves is well prepared to swap, they don’t have a useful alternative, so that team is stuck with two thieves. They are at a disadvantage. Why should they be stuck with the disadvantage of the matchmaking system, while you’re allowed to reset it?

The goal should be for the matchmaking system to limit that happening as best it can. If it does happen, however, that’s your bad luck, deal with it. It’s better than allowing teams to build unfair advantage like you describe.

As for your second case, that should be a risk you take. If the system is in general balance, then any build that can “hard counter” another, should be fairly weak when faced with other options. So if you choose to field a “hard counter” build, then you’ll randomly find matches where you have a huge advantage, and others where you have a huge disadvantage, high risk/reward. If you don’t wan that risk, you run with a more balanced build. You shouldn’t be able to offset the risk of an unbalanced build by being able to swap it out when it’s inconvenient, you should be stuck with it whether it’s ideal or not.

You are 100% right. A-net needs to fix this stuff not the player base.

Druids were not close to the problem Chronos and Tempest were. They may or may not need nerfs but not in the same league as those two were last meta.

“Then these same people complain about bunker meta and no one dying and these same people complain about non bunkers and everything dying. Is the only solution for these people to give them op builds that no one else can’t use that can tank and kill and be good without being good for them to stop complaining?”

Winner winner chicken dinner. Although I think a l lot of people are happy that the do it all classes got nerfed and most of the whiners are actually the people that played the classes that could do it all (bunker strongly and kill) that got nerfed. Sorry peeps your free ride is over. If you want to bunker thats what you’ll do. If you want to kill thats what you’ll do. You won’t be able to do both.

More then just Chronos took fairly significant nerfs (Herald and Elementalist) and they were deserved nerfs. Where they went wrong was buffing Necros and giving Thieves the wrong kind of buffs. Its still better then before though.

Indure.5410:

If hammer and Glacial Heart are kept exactly as they are now, then the trait has no real impact on PVE and IMO should be treated as a PVP trait. As a PVP trait it makes sense in Valor or Virtues since they are the most often use trait lines for PVP, but that being said, I still wouldn’t being using Glacial Heart 90% of the time no matter where it was placed.

I would it is powerful but not usable in the current spot. It was a big part of a spec that was meta for like 6 months.

King Cephalopod.7942:

I think they should merge Stalwart Defender and Strength in Numbers and move Glacial Heart to valor. GH seems really out of place where it is, as the other two traits improve the passives of F1 and F2, and since it gives protection hammer seems to belong in the valor tree with armor-y stuff. So maybe something to improve the F3 passive beyond a 10 second cooldown reduction given by Indomitable Courage?

Also, the group should get the 250 toughness from shield if in range and 150 otherwise. Now that would be decent. They also need to find a way for guardians to get that 300 vitality we used to get from traits playing the old bunker specs without wrecking builds. Force of Will is ludicrously weak for a grandmaster trait. That honestly should be adept or a first tier master trait somewehere.

Yes it would help a lot probably bring the old Hammer dps guardian back into meta once they fixed the smite condition bug. Guardian is in such a mediocre position right now its like A-net is blind to things. Other traints like force of will should be moved somewhere too or made adept so guardians are given more health so maybe bunker guardians can come back. You can’ t be a point contester with 13k health. There is just so many problems with Guardian right now and spvp is just infuriating. It wouldn’t take much to give us a chance but they aren’t interested in fixes that make sense. I really don’t want to play Dargon Hunter and even that is average at best even after the nerfs to revenant, Chrono, and Tempest. I would like to play my old bunker and medi dps specs plz and not be subpar.

zinkz.7045:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Ridiculous how Anet constantly ignore that the ele class needs HUGE redesign to ever feel as viable and versatile as other classes nowadays do.

That is a pretty myopic viewpoint you’ve got going there, half the classes in the game have design issues, for example anything that uses AI which is basically broken to various extents on virtually every class that uses it, of course for some classes that is less of an issue than others, but on classes where it plays a big part like Ranger, Mesmer, etc it is a big problem, that has existed the entire game.

You should also get off your whinebox when it comes to ele and the entire game, where ele has been “meta” in PvE & WvW pretty much the entire game, and faired pretty well in PvP with only really thief, guard and maybe engy faring better over the course of the last 3 years.

Whilst most other classes have overall been far more useless, in PvP ranger, necro, warrior, etc, WvW (half the classes basically unwanted for three years, whilst ele has been perma meta) and PvE where the likes of necro were basically unwanted for 3 years, whilst ele was always a top class to the point it got stacked, the sheer lack of perspective is pathetic.

A strong argument can be made that overall ele has been the top class in spvp measuring average strength over the life span of the game. No other class has been stacked more in general at high levels of play at any given time and they have been out of meta the least. In theory all classes should have at least one meta build at any time if the game was balanced correctly but I find the current ele tears a little juicy personally. The people that had it the best are always going to cry the most when the nerf stick hits and they are on the bottom for a bit.

It is kind of pay to win at the moment but it is a very minor pay 2 win we are talking about 50 dollars. I agree though if E-sports is there vision having to spend 50 dollars goes against the theme as most E-sports games are totally free. Any money you spent would be totally on cosmetics.

They won all the time before.

Buran.3796:

Yashuoa.9527:

I meant after those 4 roles, there is room for a Guardian/something else not in the team, instead of stacking a class. Or even guardian instead of one of the 4.

Didnt they change lately for ESL for example that you cant stack class anymore?
The game might go in that direction. As in, no stacking of the same build.

Besides which class would you want to stack over 5 different ones?
You are not gonna stack Thiefs. I have never seen a tourny with stacked Scrappers.
Bunker mes has been more or less removed.

I would use a Reaper, Daredevil, Herald and Druid in any team composition, leaving the last slot to either stack a second Reaper, a second Herald or maybe a “I ignore your blocks” Berserker.

I don’t think it’s as clear night and day though like last meta. You really had to run nothing but elementalists, chrono, and mallyx or you literally had no chance. Ranger was not really meta in the previous meta the top teams did not run them sure they were better then a lot of for just general pvp. Would a Druid really be that much better then a bunker guardian for example? Maybe it would be I admit to not knowing that much about them except the nonsensical daze spam, pet, and they can spam heals once they build up there mechanic. Would it be 5% better, 20% better etc? Questions like that matter because there is no way classes can be exactly proficient at the same role but if its closeish you can kind of make it work.

Necros are very strong but at least Necros are easier to kill then the other problem classes from the last meta like Chrono, Tempest, and Herald. You can’t honestly tell me you were beating those builds 1v1 last meta because there is no way in hell you were.

Laraley.7695:

Salamander.2504:

Laraley.7695:

Salamander.2504:

Laraley.7695:

Salamander.2504:

reikken.4961:

“the rest of us” don’t lack other defensive mechanics while having the lowest base defenses in the game while lacking reliable ranged damage

Mem no Fushia.7604:

Also someone in ele subforum said something like : that ele lack so many mechanics that other classes have to this degree that it is unique.

What? Ele’s lacking mechanics? facepalm Ele’s have active damage mitigation in the form of invulns; say hi to necro and thief. Ele’s have great mobility; say hi to necro and guardian; Ele’s have cleave; say hi to ranger and thief. Ele’s have boons up the wazoo; say hi to necro. Ele’s have stability; say hi to thief and base necro. Ele’s have good condi clear; say hi to rev, engi, mesmer. Ele’s have great healing abilities independent of the #6 skill; say hi to base ranger, necro. Ele’s have great access to CC; say hi to base guardian. Ele’s have the most useful downstate; say hi to everyone.

Ele’s lack health and toughness; say hi to mercenary amulet or paladin amulet.

That’s funny. Ele having sooooooo much over necro, yet necro is on top and ele is on bottom.

Necro is OP right now because of 2 things: (1) necro chill damage is OP right now because the damage coefficient (0.3) is too high, and (2) the scepter AA boon corrupt can corrupt stability on auto.

That doesn’t change the fact that it lacks all of the defensive mechanics that other classes have, as outlined in my post above. Necro chill damage needing a nerf is entirely separate from the perma-protection spam that was rightfully removed from Tempest.

You’re right, they should buff necros more.

I think you need to reread my post? If you do, it’s pretty clear that my opinion is that necro will be in a good spot once chill damage is nerfed and the scepter boon corrupt buff is reverted. Necro lacking defensive mechanics is part of the class design, and I don’t want that to be changed. I’m only pointing out that its kitten y to claim that “ele lacks defensive mechanics”. The moral of the story from this thread is that perma-aoe-protection from tempests is gone, and that’s a good thing.

Of course it’s a good thing ele was removed from pvp completely. I ain’t even mad about the protection, it was just one of the things that destroyed the class anyways, but you acting like necro is sooo much worse than ele is hilarious.

Lots of classes have been out of meta for long periods of time much longer then Ele. Stop whining you’ve been mediocre for a day. You were kings forever. Shut up already people that play classes like thief, warrior, and guardian don’t what to hear it. Even if what you are saying is true as far as Im concerned you still below a bunch of classes for immediate fixes.

Boohoo the class that has been meta longer then anyone else might be subpar for a bit. I say might because we are one day in to the changes who knows what people will come up with in a few more days. The people that had it the best are always the loudest whiners. Already more ele and mesmer whine threads then legitimate grievance threads for classes like Warriors and Thieves in the last several months.

You mean figthing something other then Herald Mallyx, Tempests, and Chronobunker, is better? No way! Sarcasm of course. Anything is better then the last meta.

They want people to be killed more easily. Not saying that is good or bad but that’s the reason.

mrauls.6519:

Even though I say this, there are things that need to be reworked. I’m just happy we didn’t see a lot of our new tools, traits, or skills greatly nerfed (like revenant for example). I see the positive in this balance patch for us… but maybe I’m wrong. We’ll see

Several of the current meta dominators have been nerfed pretty significantly that alone helps Guardians a little. The buffs we received are pretty meh and of course DH took a hit. Hard to say really at this point my gut feeling is we came out marginally ahead just because others got weaker.

There are actually quite a few changes have people actually read the patch notes?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-January-26-2016/first#post5946360